Bandcamp Exposed: Terms Of Service… (Don’t Sign Up Before You Watch!)

[@TopMusicAttorney]

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[@keithdf2001]

If a company violates the TOS or you feel that they have, can you take them to court? In other words if they break the contract, does that void the entire contract including clauses on dealing with damages? Would a judge possible agree and allow it to be arbitrated in court

[@codesslinger]

One time at band camp.......

[@AJ_Reynolds]

99% of the money I make from music is from Bandcamp.

[@larrytan73]

LMAO! What justifies the forceful marketing tactics? When someone inquires about our opinions.Why do you feel that we need to know about every service you offer? Peace out home-gurl!

[@sole__doubt]

Its the best platform for music by far.

[@hawtdawg6030]

This sucks. Distributing your own music. Sucks. This middle man shit sucks. Just gonna burn these CDs up and selling hand to hand like the early 2000s

[@TwitchDeMetaphysical]

100 but sell it on usb flash drives instead of CDs

[@MarkMelchior-lb6vv]

I do the same.

[@sole__doubt]

@@TwitchDeMetaphysical I would never buy music on a thumb drive.

[@jandrem]

@@TwitchDeMetaphysical putting odd usb drives acquired from strangers into your computer is a bad practice.

[@TwitchDeMetaphysical]

@@jandrem The entire music industry is bad practice. I am not the virus you should worry about.

[@SHTMusik]

As an amateur musician I love posting my stuff to Bandcamp. I also love finding and supporting new independent artists on the platform. Don't expect to get many clicks unless you promote outside the platform but you can also embed your tracks on blogs and other places which is useful.

[@guitaleleoeuvre]

Bandcamp's function is to host and sell (NOT to "promote") an artist's offerings. I kinda like and prefer it that way!

[@SHTMusik]

@@guitaleleoeuvre Well they DO feature certain artists and albums but funny thing is I´ve never found anything good following their recommendations.

[@martinpedersen7]

Bandcamp was acquired by Songtradr last year, who also owns 7Digital, Tunefind and several other music-related platforms. Does these ToS technically give them rights (sublicensing/transferability) to distribute through these channels?

[@sole__doubt]

Most people dont seem to realize that BC was acquired by another company.

[@joellebrodeur1015]

The part about chargebacks is shifting the financial liability to the artist/band. Being liable for fees resulting from chargebacks is what is called a Personal Guaranty. I work for a merchant acquirer processor and the language in Bandcamp's contract isn't different from some of the language used in Merchant Processing Agreements. Artist beware. You are better off using a separate platform for merch and maybe even for distribution of intellectual property. I also have a minor in Commercial Music (business track) and aware of pitfalls with sites like this.

[@kimbaleon27]

@@joellebrodeur1015 when you mention IP, are you including the music?

[@kimbaleon27]

While Bandcamp offers streaming, users (Fan or Creator) should always download the music and have backups of your own. Then you'll never have to worry about that loss if your account is deleted. That should really go for any data you own. Anything can happen to data _wherever_ it is. Plus, (if you have space) playing music directly from your devices will reduce energy use both on your devices _and_ on the servers Bandcamp uses

[@danieldover3745]

This is why I buy my music on bandcamp. I want to A) pay for the music to finance my favorite artists and also B) have the files on my computer.

[@cryptout]

Best music platform out there period. From a fan and artist perspective it’s fair and easy to use.

[@sole__doubt]

Exactly and its not even close.

[@Deejayirie]

What a pure gem of a channel! The amount of valuable information received (for free!) is second to none.

[@valrawk]

I gotta be honest.. my #1 piece of advise I've always given to aspiring musicians/artists, is DO NOT sign with a record label.. I have Never, in the entire history of the industry, heard of any record company that didnt try to screw over the artists signed to them. 🙁

[@TopMusicAttorney]

Do you have your own record label? [e-mail]

[@NuclearDeathWalk]

Weird. I was signed to both a major label and a minor label. Never got screwed. Not once. In fact, I was making more money than I knew what to do with.

[@jeffgutierrez8796]

I don't think your situation is different from mine. I've had three record contracts, I've never been screwed.

[@lowandodor1150]

@@NuclearDeathWalk I am in real need of some money, so if you still have too much of it, my dog and i could use some for sure. I only "signed" with a tiny label once and the one record went okay, the other he insisted on him and his gf doing the layout of of the cover and they screwed it up. I had no money to fix it, i hate looking at it and selling it/giving it to people. Pathetic i know.

[@Goodblue77]

@@NuclearDeathWalk sure bud. Your 3 subscribers are definitely paying you well.

[@BringFacts]

This one time, at Band Camp…

[@Lu6771]

😂

[@jeffwilson3205]

We’ve posted tons of covers on Bandcamp…we just have to acquire the mechanical licenses ourselves, which is pretty straightforward.

[@nessy9022]

That was my assumption. This video made me uncertain.

[@Andy_from_de]

additionl bonus: every first Friday of a month, BC waives all fees from sales, so that 100% of the transaction goes to the artist. They started this voluntarily to help artists during the Corona pandemic, but they have kept doing this ever since.

[@chrisoberst3531]

I've had my music on Bandcamp for years and had good experiences. I was worried when they were acquired, but I haven't seen any changes yet.

[@Slope114]

reporting is almost instant via the band camp app. I can see as soon as someone buys.

[@HolyRollerBabyMusic]

Thank you for saying this. As an artist, I find Bandcamp extremely unhelpful to artists.

[@tonybrown9132]

So just to be clear, it says they can kick me off the platform for no reason and as someone who likes the idea that my purchases are stored and easily accessible and available at anytime meaning if I (as I have) lose my purchases I can redownload previously purchased music effectively meaning at anytime they can changes my agreement with them whenever they want to …. As said with no good reason …. Wow …. Not happy with that

[@TRC_PNW]

Have sold $10k+ in digital and physical on there. Never had an issue. I like that downloading needed sales info for filing taxes is easy and complete.

[@djslip_irie]

Bandcamp Friday. Nobody else waves their cut. 🥇

[@scott21113]

Thank you for this thorough discussion. You really did a great job of teasing out the most relevant elements I wanted to know about to use the service.

[@TopMusicAttorney]

Thanks for the kind words. Please join us tomorrow for the YT Livestream at 5 pm PST!

[@Hermitthecog]

What about potential complications relating to who owns Bandcamp? Now that it's a subsidiary there's always the chance that it could be messed with by a subsequent purchase/restructuring; what recourse do artists have under those circumstances? Originally Bandcamp's independence felt like they were keeping themselves on equal terms with creators but now I'm not sure I can trust the platform's autonomy. I'd rather set up digital sales on my own site than rely on a third party that may or may not be sold again on the whim of their parent company's shareholders.

[@jonathancabrera7543]

We All Need A Good Attorney Like You

[@crttom8413]

Thx for this review. Am on Bandcamp since years, without any problems.

[@mymusicpublisher]

That happened to me. 20 projects. Vanished. No customer support.

[@TheBonusHoles]

They did that to Tim Pool and Five Times August. Banned them over their political views. Not only are they discriminating against artists, they robbed the people who purchased music from them of their purchases which they are supposed to be able to access via their account. I purchased music from both and when it happened, I filed disputes for each purchase of their music with my bank and the bank decided my disputes were valid.

[@rich2fnrock]

Even is the same. I understand that they should make a little profit for providing that platform, but publishing admin services are going to cost you something too. No way around it. I still like bandcamp, I have bought a lot of music from bands there. Haven't sold anything yet there.

[@newellbate]

Anybody got another good platform

[@TheSpiceLord]

Is there a pros and cons sheet or some master page for all of these services that have been gone over? I’m quickly losing track of everything. If not that’s okay! I’ll just have to squeeze in time to rewatch everything. You’re doing a huge service for artists everywhere by not paywalling this information.

[@NoDaysOff-oz2zl]

Pros: Figueroa Street Cons: 535 N Alameda

[@CloseCallMusic]

@@NoDaysOff-oz2zl I c what u did there 😉

[@TopMusicAttorney]

Unfortunately the minute we would finish it, it would change. So we haven't invested in making a master list.

[@TheSpiceLord]

@@TopMusicAttorney understandable! Thank you for the response.

[@caeliachapin5317]

@@NoDaysOff-oz2zl É?

[@grammophone1]

Five Times August, Tim Pool and others claim that they were not only booted from BandCamp but the songs the fans purchased were wiped from them as well. I am hearing about an active case for consumer fraud against platforms advertising "buy" yet taking down digital content you have purchased. I can't find it though. Do you know whether there is such a lawsuit?

[@DinoDiniProductions]

I am not going to get any sales, so I might as well sell on my own website...

[@mindtorquemusic]

@@DinoDiniProductions I agree. Far too much outsourcing these days. And people wonder why the market is saturated. It should take more effort so that not just anyone can do it, just the people with drive and determination. Good luck man🍻

[@Engineeer]

With your own site, you have to have your hosting and payment system setup. Which is usually not free and takes time to setup. Having a basic Bandcamp page is free and you pay the revenue share when you sell music. So, if you don't expect many sales, it's actually cheaper to upload the music to Bandcamp.

[@justin.johnson]

Setting up your own site and payment is super easy and cheap 😀

[@nemesisjuggernaut7920]

I’d be curious if you were hired by a platform to set up their TOS, what would be your ideal contract? Would you insist on benefiting the artist over protecting the company? As the son of a contract attorney I know it’s always walking the line between what’s right and what you’re hired for.

[@TopMusicAttorney]

Please join our livestream tonight! Hoping we can get to your question! 5 pm PST!

[@gregsLyrics]

Great vid, Krystal. Amazing channel and you have very cool style too. Back in the day I put myself though college engineering at Streeterville in Chicago for many record labels and national jingles. Musicians rarely ever had their eye on the biz of music. Very refreshing to see your channel to assist artists to keep what is theirs. I hated the part of the music industry that stole the souls of artists and toured them half to death. So many artists left with very little. I am headed to Bali in December for artist development - you will be perfect for this and I will refer to connect you together.

[@wattumchu]

Bandcamp "transferrable and sublicenseable".... Google is using these terms on KZbin to allow themselves the right to train AI. Which didn't exist when the license was signed for most KZbinrs. Bandcamp could try the same. How is that legal?

[@WineSippingCowboy]

Good 👍 advice. Many Eastern musicians do covers. I traveled to The Philippines 🇵🇭 in 2022. Most of the established musicans there do covers.

[@kernelpaniiic]

18:45 I have a question : In the USA, is it legal for a contract to limit to a tiny amount of money how much you can claim in case of damages (which could potentially be 100 times more than this limit, for instance) ? In the EU, I think this would be considered as an "abusive clause" of the contract, because it "creates a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" (directive # 93/13/CEE)

[@DinoDiniProductions]

I avoid all these problems increasingly by simply keeping myself to myself

[@speedyslug]

@@DinoDiniProductions then no money potential tho

[@DinoDiniProductions]

@@speedyslug I have been putting my music online for nearly 20 years, and made nothin'. I have music on Spotify and make nothin'. The way these stupid services work is they nickel and dime millions of hopefuls and make money from that, with a few big winners algorithmically driven that keeps the everyone trying. It's a scam. It's like the Gold Rush, where the only people making money were selling shovels, renting accommodation and transporting the idiots. I make money in my day job.

[@Songwriter376]

I can hear it in my head without the studio and equipment etc so I do not upload anymore but Is that really fulfilling though?

[@rayantenna]

They never tell me who paid for a song that is bought and I think that’s super lame. How can I thank that fan.

[@Mickchillagegainford01]

You should be getting emails with every sale "Cha-Ching" such & such just purchased and you get their email & their Bandcamp name etc with the notification. Very easy to thank your fans directly if you wish. Brilliant platform, so transparent. Check your account details or make sure the bandcamp emails are not blocked within your email account etc.

[@neurokinetik]

Strange. I always get an immediate email when somebody purchases one of my tracks, and it tells me who made the purchase.

[@ezy.doesit]

When you make a sale you get an email with the contact from the person that bought from you.

[@dafingaz]

Can you do a similar video for EVEN?

[@GreyStyleFX]

would love to see this too

[@simaek]

This!!

[@LapisStone]

yessss

[@thechristianbernal]

They’ve never stopped me or said anything about my covers🤔

[@jebatman756]

The part about ownership, why do they need permission to “reproduce” our music though? What’s gonna stop them from using AI to copy our music?

[@Blueberrythegreat]

Are they allowed to change the terms of service at any time it should say in the contract. Someone like me is never done business with them. It would be nice to know

[@robynrox]

I'd like to see a definition of gross - e.g. if we buy music from the UK or the EU, there is usually value added tax applied to the transaction which is around 20% and varies from country to country, and I'm sure there are similar sales taxes elsewhere. This will be a tax that Bandcamp is going to have to pay, i.e. it's not like income tax that the musician would have to pay out of their own earnings (I'm UK-based and I accept that it may be different in other countries). Does the 10%-15% fee apply to the VAT-exclusive or VAT-inclusive price? If it applies to the VAT-inclusive price, that's significantly higher.

[@kimbaleon27]

If the hypothetical Jenny from Bandcamp did steal music from someone, would it be complicated to directly sue Jenny or is it just likely compensation isn't going to be great?

[@michaelflomer8348]

Good New Mzzz Krystle! Comforting News about Bandcamp. Cheers! etc. CooCoKaChew

[@old-tape-records]

the problem with all these services is that they make money on your minimal sales, it is not profitable for them to develop you, they spend all their efforts and money to attract new clients, in fact, they exploit your small audience for their own mercantile purposes

[@joebright4607]

Shouldn’t you watch “National Lampoon’s” version of “Band Camp” before you attend ?

[@adiosluna1114]

Love how she says Band’s camp

[@nicholighkun]

What service has the fairest conditions that you have investigated so far?

[@TopMusicAttorney]

Hey - they all have pros and cons; please reach out if you want to set up a consultation with an attorney to discuss your aspirations and help you decide on one. [e-mail]!

[@nicholighkun]

@@TopMusicAttorney Thank you very much for the kind offer to help, but I literally have no money. That's one of the reasons I wanted the info. It would be nice to be able to make a living off of my hard work. But as of right now, I have none to invest with.

[@mikeb1378]

Tony Iommi's guitar pick?

[@JamBurglar]

Not so bad until you get to the limitation of liability clauses. I'm seeing more and more these in contracts I look at. I would kind of like to see congress clamp down on that kind of thing. That said, can't think of any reason why Bandcamp would be liable to most small artists in an amount that would be worth litigating over. I wonder if an LLC can establish a Bandcamp page. That might be a decent way to limit the artists' liability to Bandcamp.

[@paulmanley7863]

Okay, so who should we use?

[@synkrotron]

as a fan, as soon as you buy digital music download it, straight away

[@RobertfSullivan]

What is the platforms Insurance's Coverages

[@michaelmeucci8785]

Hey Crystal, I write Christian and gospel funk music which platform would be the most friendly or best service for Christian music. Thank you.

[@TopMusicAttorney]

Hey Michael - thanks for reaching out; please contact my assistant so we can set up a consultation to discuss this. [e-mail].

[@OGsaborRD]

I would like to see you do pro tool playlist distribution tern … thanks

[@TheKablue]

I’ve heard stories that people have signed up and put their music on Bandcamp. Then Bandcamp shops their music around like a publisher and underbids the artist’s publisher for a contract for the same song. Too much power to Bandcamp that can really screw up a music career in the long run.

[@BGthreedoublezeroone]

Please make a Video on Airbit T&C. Thanks in advance

[@NoDaysOff-oz2zl]

It's 2024 and Bandcamp still only pays artists via PayPal. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@elevan2760]

@@NoDaysOff-oz2zl does PayPal take a further 10%

[@joechapman8208]

It sounds funny but it's part of how they keep the fees low. Large indie labels might prefer a more expansive system handled by a larger financial admin department, but single-act accounts would prefer not to be contributing to the cost of services that don't benefit them.

[@ladyibiscus6940]

Well, that's a non issue I think. Better get paid the old fashioned way, than be promised to get paid in 20 different ways and ending up not getting paid at all Lol.

[@Engineeer]

Who cares, as long they pay quickly without any thresholds and have a reasonable revenue share, PayPal is fine, I guess. Still, I think they need to overhaul the platform itself by making the tech more up to date and extend the features.

[@adultgamingnetwork3186]

PayPal is the devil.

[@theshallowsouls2047]

Epic games owns bandcamp right??

[@nicknicely6315]

One thing I was hoping you'd mention is that if an artist takes down a track that a fan has bought, does the fan then lose the track ? No one seems to know .

[@Real_Wilkinson]

The answer is that if you delete a track it comes off the fans consumers re-downloadable page. If they have purchased it and don't download it. In the meantime you delete it. They won't be able to download it thereafter. Hope this helps.

[@oreoandoz7723]

Just found you through Wings of Pegasus (the fraud video where he asked for a lawyer's expertise) - love your channel! Can you make a video on the recent Eminem vs Spotify decision? I'm a little concerned about Spotify getting away with this kind of thing - should I be? Do I just not understand what's at stake? Thanks so much!!

[@eltremendolagarto]

Could you check on the terms of Audiio please?

[@dafingaz]

So…the 10-15% should technically be 10 or 15 right? There’s no 11-14. 😂

[@Sakima205]

What About BandLab???

[@Nerocorvinus]

@@Sakima205 That's what I'm wondering.

[@Phosfit]

I hope for a channel of this nature for digital contracts in other fields. You’re likely super stacked on workload but if you were to start another channel and do a series on social media terms of services, I’d watch and hopefully Patreon would help you.

[@mattvdh]

Why isn't there a music service that just relies on ads for its revenue, rather than penny pinching off the artists, who aren't making much money to begin with. We need a guy like Rick Beato to lay down a new music streaming service that is geared towards creating profits for musicians.

[@NondoPondo]

Noooooo... 😭😭😭 Oh well. Que Sera, Sera. I will not post any new material. I only have my old defunct Punk project. I have gone back to writing for myself away. lol

[@mxvega1097]

Best looking horse in the glue factory. The entire model is broken.

[@Q_XXII]

All you guys trembling with your fans. Ain't got one fan so I'm good here . 🍷

[@guitaleleoeuvre]

TL/DR "Bandcamp GOOD!" (At least, as much as any still existing 3rd party "middle-man" platform out there can be!)"

[@guitaleleoeuvre]

I'm not an enemy of DistroKid nor CdBaby! (Loudr got bought-out I think!) But, I think Bandcamp is still the best option for musical creators whom deliberately avoid contracts with evil record labels and etc.

[@heinzstein99]

I love your channel How about doing the same for soundcloud .Thank you.

[@Frank-qg4ik]

Am I the only one that takes issue with the plain language portion being non binding? I don't think that the law requiring plain language contracts meant that you can say what ever you want in plain language and only enforce the legalese. If you can't make a business without scamming people then don't make a business. It's not a difficult concept.

[@kimbaleon27]

My (limited) understanding is that legalese can be very important in court, so it's almost a given a company will use it. I'm basing this off of what I think I remember about non-laywer-given advise when it comes to things like wills

[@chrisoberst3531]

The legalese part contains very precise definitions of every term, and the language is chosen for its mechanical effect rather than how easy it is to read. Contracts have to be that way in order to avoid being ambiguous or open to multiple interpretations. This is pretty standard, actually. Employee retirement plans, for example, have what's called a "plan description" that isn't actually part of the plan but describes how it works.

[@Frank-qg4ik]

@@chrisoberst3531 which is a violation of the law.

[@Frank-qg4ik]

@@chrisoberst3531 also I disagree about the necessity of it. Being necessary implies that the objective cannot be accomplished any other way. Which is not the case.

[@terrencecruel4025]

Can you do a review on CD Baby

[@TopMusicAttorney]

There is one!

[@BillyTheKidsGhost]

The number one thing for me is... Don't lose your rights. Luckley Peter Thiel doesn't like me, so I'm blacklisted from band camp.(by Proxy)😎

[@Captain-Palsy]

Yea, you lose your rights. You're screwed

[@LyricsVideo4U]

Nice, keep it up! 🔥🔥🔥

[@RobertfSullivan]

Wow Platform threats

[@CliffordSullivan-fj7jv]

Are deezer,itunes etc paying you or are you just grifting on you tube?? because it feels like it???

[@RobertfSullivan]

Sounds like the platform makes lots of promises

[@DinoDiniProductions]

You only have one year to get your $100

[@andrelee3951]

THANX--------

[@LapisStone]

DO EVEN NEXT !!!!!

[@Djaytiger]

Those bastards did it to me twice. But they let industry djs and producers upload music there without licenses .

[@RobertfSullivan]

I thought band camp was a musicians hook up platform funny

[@RobertfSullivan]

Create a new account same platform

[@redfernguitar]

Band camp is like Buried Alive Camp it seems like only musicians go to that site, so if you are Thurston Moore or like Stevie Wonder they can do well on there if you are not already famous your work just sits there.

[@joechapman8208]

That's completely untrue. Lots of people are doing well on there who don't have a fraction of the name recognition of Thurston Moore, and the vast majority of accounts are customer accounts, not artists. The whole point of being signed to a label is that you relinquish a degree of your money and control in exchange for their services in promotion. If you don't want to be signed to a label then you need to learn how to promote. It's not easy, and you can't expect a shop to magically pull customers to you.

[@Lon3lySailor]

Totally agree!

[@beatsbeercigarettes]

I’ve had my releases pop up in the main music feed for the genre it’s tagged in. And let me tell you.. my stuff gets very little attention outside a small group of dedicated fans who buy up my physical releases. When the main feed showed the release that tape sold out and I shipped stuff out to unfamiliar addresses which hadn’t happened much in the past.

[@rokarolla]

I don't want to break your 420th thumbs-up

[@Lu6771]

👍

[@ATHDIMENSION]

You’re my favorite KZbin channel for learning you are amazing, allegedly

[@TopMusicAttorney]

Thanks for the kind words. Please feel free to send me a note and let me know how your music career is progressing - [e-mail].

[@rayantenna]

Bandcamp doesn’t give me all the money I get from sales. Very untrustworthy company.

[@RobertfSullivan]

Peace Love Cool

[@whatsername123]

I've watched so many young bands have... issues...with band camp.

[@kennykruger5866]

I would never have a pay pal account ever

[@TopMusicAttorney]

Why not?

[@justin.johnson]

Weird comment. I rely on PayPal in auto pilot to handle a majority of my financial transactions.

[@kennykruger5866]

​@@TopMusicAttorneygoto Louis Rossmann video stop using PayPal now on Louis youtube channel

[@fgoindarkg]

This is a business named after a dirty joke in a trashy teen zex flik.

[@rhizomorph-music]

A music attorney with judgeship aspirations, I see... (attorneys don't bang gavels, ha ha)

[@thoughtlessent]

Are you re airing a video you already did? Lol

[@TopMusicAttorney]

We do livestreams on Wed at 5pm PST. The livestream is then edited into segments. Which are released later.

[@niloo_atribecalledlove]

Why? Why can’t we catch a break. I just need somewhere to share my music 🎶 ❤️‍🩹