Torchwood's Life-Changing Episode

[@HarboWholmes]

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[@CashelOConnolly]

Harbo do you hate Torchwood?

[@VeracityLH]

"Martha and [redacted].". I saw what you did there.

[@VeracityLH]

Cashel, nobody spends this much time on something they hate. I don't always agree with Harbo, but appreciate his insight. He often points out things I didn't catch or had forgotten about. Cheers.

[@dethlokprime8655]

Now that Owen is useful, he’s allowed back. Reminds me of Rudolph.

[@danielclayton6772]

Now all we need is a TorchWood themed Christmas song 😁.

[@jamma.77]

The thing that's never sat right with me in this episode is how little empathy Owen receives from the rest of the team, paticularly when Tosh asks him "What's wrong with you?" -- he's *dead,* what d'you think's wrong with him?!

[@HarboWholmes]

I think that's intentional, since they've long forgotten how to function on a human level due to all the monster and alien hunting overwhelming their lives

[@Zach2003]

@@HarboWholmes yeah, but it's also really hard to watch. They're exhausted after all these years of monster and alien hunting, but they've also been friends for all these years. Jack's 'when is that phase going to end' thing was the absolute worst for me, because he should have known Owens pain. Yes, his fate with always being alive is the exact opposite of always being dead, but he knows the numbness his own immortality causes him, and he could've seen the same things in Owen. And it wouldn't even change anything if Jack just said "hey man, yeah not dying is pretty bad and you've probably got it even worse than I do". Owen could still be troubled after that. But the teams reaction in this episode just made me not trust in their friendship anymore

[@kaykutcher2103]

Since Owen narrates the episode you could also chuck it in the unreliable narrator drawer.

[@BambiTrout]

@@kaykutcher2103 Yeah that's what I was thinking too. That being said, I do think it still makes sense played straight. From the perspective of the rest of the team, they see Owen walking and talking, and it's very easy for them to almost forget that he is literally dead, particularly because they're so used to Jack just dying and coming back as if nothing happened. Even though they KNOW Owen's situation is different, I don't think it fully clicks for them, so they treat him just as they normally would when he's acting like a bit of a prick and ask when he's gonna stop. They just can't register how horrific his existence is and how difficult and traumatic this is for him. I think there could also be a bit of wilful ignorance, given that they are the ones responsible for his condition - it's easier for them to project their guilt onto him and act like he's the problem than it is to actually confront it. I see some parallels with Buffy season 6 (SPOILERS) in that both shows have a character brought back by their friends into an unpleasant and disconnected existence. They're angry and upset and self-destructive, but no one around them can understand why. Their friends try and act as if nothing has changed, as if that will lead the dead person walking to start acting like their old self again, while intentionally avoiding their own responsibility for their friend's suffering. In both cases, the resurrectees end up just feeling more and more isolated and unheard by the people they once trusted, and it takes a lot for them to finally accept their new place in life. However, I do think the characters in Buffy are a lot more sympathetic, because Buffy intentionally hid the reason for her post-resurrection depression from them (they ripped her from heaven) to spare them the guilt, while the Torchwood team were fully aware of what Owen was going through - they just couldn't, or didn't want to empathise with him.

[@julieeverett7442]

same here, hes been dead for THREE days, people take months or years to get over the death of a loved one, and he is not even allowed that much time

[@HiperPivociarz]

I study psychology, and we talked about what to say when someone is going through horrible stuff. You don't say "It will get better", but you don't say 'I don't know what to say" either. You listen to what they say, you understand what their grievance is, and you let them know they're being heard, and that someone out there understand the pain they're in rn. 'It must be so hard to watch people eat and go about their day, when you can't enjoy all that stuff. It feels kinda like they don't understand. And you want them to understand."

[@alim.9801]

This is really good advice thank you

[@julieeverett7442]

And Owen did it with the old man didnt he? Theres only been 2 or 3 times I heard his voice so gentle

[@apanapandottir205]

When we learn his backstory, we really learn that Owen isn't lying. He's been through this exact same thing basically.

[@rosti6051]

"Too many farewell scenes without dying" That reminds me about one character in Doctor Who

[@PathsUnwritten]

Davros, the Master, Rory -- take your pick.

[@ogpandamonium]

Which one? There's a lot

[@jeckjeck3119]

@@PathsUnwritten Clara, Doctor... lol.

[@user-jn1wm3tb8v]

Nyssa & Peri

[@PathsUnwritten]

@@user-jn1wm3tb8v Those are deep cuts. I don't even know how to watch episodes that far back.

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

Proof Joseph Lidster was and still is a phenomenal writer who really should have written for the main show. He is above the confines of Big Finish and spin-offs.

[@nightowl8477]

Russell said in The Writer's Tale that in years to come, Joseph would be showrunning Doctor Who. He was very impressed with his work on The Sarah Jane Adventures.

[@MrGreaves]

Seriously. Terror Firma is probably my favourite audio of the Charley era and A Day in The Death is my favourite Torchwood episode

[@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502]

I agree with your point, but what fo you mean "above"? I hate this idea that expanded universe or spin offs are somehow lesser than the main show.

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 “above the confines” are the words I used. Meaning he is beyond capable of writing for the main show yet they never utilised his talents.

[@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502]

@@DanTheMan2150AD ah, I see

[@nicolebee3283]

For the longest time I thought Adam was the best torchwood episode but now after much reflection it is this episode. The back to back scene of Owen becoming incredibly upset at Tosh reaching out and the scene of Owen attempting to drown himself completely broke me

[@jeckjeck3119]

It's Torchwood. The show aims to hurt us emotionally.

[@nicolebee3283]

@@jeckjeck3119 and it succeeds

[@thegreatprimevalshow]

Since the flashbacks are from Owen's perspective, we could assume that he only thought the other characters were being harsh towards him even if they were trying to be nice, given the situation. That would explain why the others felt out of character, because of an "unreliable narrator's" perspective. 🤷🏼‍♂️ - The ARC Minister

[@pastlife960]

The scene at the end with him finding a message from another world nearly broke me. I first watched it when I was in quite a dark time in my life (I wasn’t considering anything drastic, but I was seriously miserable), and it was just so life-affirming. It really helped me to keep going.

[@catfeldman3614]

"Martha and redacted go to join torchwood" wheeze

[@xenon8117]

9:28 And he still has that broken fingers prop!

[@lucypreece7581]

Sorry for late comment. I was on a close shift at work. I love the themes in this episode. Purpose and the lack of it, identity, mortality, immortality, existentialism and hope and also the obvious mental health angle. Only those with mental health issues know what it's like. The rest of the world and the people around us think they are helping and try to say and do all the right things but they don't know. They haven't had piles of dirty dishes stacked in their sink for days, they haven't had times where you don't shower or change your clothes for over a week, where you forget to eat or eat too much, where you feel both empty and also like you head is gonna explode from how much is running through your mind. Only you know what that feels like. And you want to scream it out to everyone and lash out and make them feel it to so they can understand but they don't want to. Not because they are bad people but because it's hard to understand. This is a brilliant flawless episode. And props to Burn Gorman. Stellar performance.

[@caitlynmarie2677]

Sometimes I feel so alone in my love for “Torchwood”… glad to meet the rest of you ✌🏻♥️ Note: these episodes were what cemented my deep appreciation for the show my first time through it.

[@PathsUnwritten]

I love your commentary on this episode. It made me think about several aspects I hadn't before. Personally, I found the contrast (both existentially and functionally) between the the 2 different modes of Jack's and Owen's immortality an interesting plot point from these episodes onward in the series.

[@Domisbeast]

Harbor said we'll never get a jack and Martha audio story the literal same day freema agyeman returned to big finish 🤣🤣

[@barrelracer12]

The comment about hollow phrases really stuck with me. It take a lot of work but I always try phrases like, "well work through this together", "this just sucks", and instead if "it will be ok" or "it'll get better" I use "it will be easier over time, but the feeling won't go away, you'll just learn to continue living with it." And by God people need to stop saying "move on" people rarely move on. Better choice, "move forward" you keep going, but you don't have to leave feelings or people behind. You figure out how to live without them.

[@stephenbeale4765]

This is the one episode of this show that I really couldn’t help but be totally captivated by

[@josephmorris1248]

Brilliant episode, but I always have to look away when Owen snaps his fingers 🤣

[@talkaboutnowt6644]

SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME

[@Alia-bc3rc]

Of all the team member, I thought Tosh would be the most empathetic toward Owen's situation, not to mention how she actually lost him once. But then again, it's probably kinda hard to slot Tosh into the story - it would be redundant since there's already Maggie's heart-to-heart interaction with Owen, and it supposed to be the focus of the episode. I guess they also wanted to make some contrast between Owen's loneliness among the people he known (the team members) and then finding some kind of console on strangers (Maggie and Henry Parker).

[@tomdemongod]

okay i lied last time this one is my fave episode . Owen has always been my fave character but just how burn gorman acts in this and the look into suicidal thoughts and how mental health can be very difficult . Just makes my love this episode .

[@thejokestore6213]

I can’t wait till your reviews of children of earth and miracle day if you ever get that far

[@Daniel_leading_the_13_Plateans]

Will he do it part bye part or all at once?

[@HarboWholmes]

All as one video for each series

[@Daniel_leading_the_13_Plateans]

@@HarboWholmes how long will they take to make, will there be updates on discord?

[@alim.9801]

@@HarboWholmes PLEASE DONT SKIP MIRACLE DAY I WANNA SEE YOUR VIDEO ON IT SOOOO SO BAD 😭😭🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@PlanetNateGaming]

I personally think the episodes: Reset,Dead Man Walking,A Day In The Death and Exit Wounds could have served as there own miniseries cus each episode focuses on Owen essentially making him the main character, I do believe Owen is one of the best Whoniverse characters ever because his character development is perfect: lived a normal life as a doctor whose life was turned upside down after his wife died due to an alien parasite attached to her brain, he then resorts to being a womanizer and having sex with numerous women to try to bury the pain, he makes snarky comments to his co-workers to hide his need for meaningful interactions and emotional connections with other people,he gets to the point where he'd rather die than actually live his life the way it is, he dies and is ressurected and realises how he took his life for granted and how meaningful it really was for him to feel anything at all, he then puts himself in a room that has a high chance of killing him if he doesn't complete his task in time (which he doesn't), he then accepts his life is about to end for a second time and embraces it

[@TheReviewer65]

My favourite episode, the music the acting, all of it I love so much

[@radiocative6296]

The shot at 17:53 is like a much less nihilistic version of the end of Fight Club

[@milan5690]

Genuinely one of my favourite episodes of Torchwood, second only to Children of Earth

[@duracell9575]

YES this is one of my favorite stories in the DWU as a whole

[@i_am_tomatosoup]

By far the best Torchwood episode. Fragments comes in second for me, followed closely by the Children of Earth saga (I have a hard time breaking that season up into individual episodes, I tend to just think of that whole series as one single story).

[@redjirachi1]

Owen Harper in death: trapped in an empty void Owen Harper after being brought back: walking corpse Rare has the universe shitted on someone this hard

[@CREN13Queen]

Why didn't we get Martha and Micky joining Torchwood in season 3? It would have made sense with them even acknowledging the team is short staffed and in need of a new doctor in the show. I'm assuming something behind the scenes changed the plan but no idea what it was.

[@johannvongenerico9487]

Sometimes it is hard to articulate why something resonates with you. I feel that way about Spiritfarer, which is an exceptional game, but beyond saying that it's emotionally engaging and fulfilling, it's hard to articulate

[@shokwavedodo1176]

MY FAV EPISODE!!!!!

[@thejokestore6213]

Nah bro children of earth day 1

[@scotcheggable]

Why can't owen give CPR? It's not like he can't breathe, he's still talking. If anything, Owens breath should be more rich in oxygen.

[@ctrlcheeb]

i love this so much! (also do you think you'd ever cover miracle day or children of earth?)

[@pastlife960]

Easily my favourite episode of Torchwood.

[@hollyrosewood1038]

I do love the line "sounds like you need a dead man"

[@tommaullin1197]

To me this is the best story in the whole cannon of who

[@stephjovi]

I wish Martha would`ve replaced him when he died for good. It would`ve been amazing. So true about the international viewers. German viewers probably thought it`s a mystery just another old friend. Doctor Who season 3 and 4 had never aired there back than. 1 and 2 was sunday afernoon hardly noticed by anyone.

[@apanapandottir205]

"Hope is a prison."

[@apanapandottir205]

Burn Gorman makes it work. He carries so many dumb stories through pure talent haha.

[@alexkilner9089]

Wow he's really dragging out the wait for his waters of Mars review

[@HarboWholmes]

It's not even finished yet so I don't know what I'm expected to do

[@alexkilner9089]

Don't worry I'm just glad you're doing your great doctor who reviews in the first place

[@baders087]

14:13 “prolonging his death?” You mean prolonging his life or postponing his death.

[@ptolemy2311]

What do you mean at 19:23 when you say we'll never have Martha return to Torchwood? Sure the hub gets destroyed etc etc, but Big Finish could just do what they always do and invent new stories in between the episodes and create situations whereby they can tell a story, just like they do with Doctor Who. Freema Agyeman and John Barrowman are still alive, and they both seem like they enjoy the Doctor Who universe still, so I'm sure they would be willing to do Big Finish(unless I'm missing something here) the only real thing I could say that would make it an impossibility would be either a rights dispute, or the recent allegations against John Barrowman's sexual misconduct behind the scenes. I'm not trying to 'call you out' or anything like that I'm genuinely curious if there's an in-universe lore thing for why it's an impossibility, and equally curious if there's a legal or personal issue for the actors involved, gotta get that juicy behind the scenes gossip.

[@darthhaggar]

I have always wondered if Owen is dead like he said he doesn’t need to breathe you see him breathe in other episodes so mistake or habit?

[@dragonspear570]

“Martha and [REDACTED]” wait a minute, why did he..? Oh, oooooohhhh... shit 😬

[@selatidos]

i want the waters of mars!!!!

[@msredfox]

Good that you didn't even mention the actor's name at 19:16 that person doesn't deserve the recognition for the shit he did

[@nimrodnameless]

Who did what?

[@msredfox]

@@nimrodnameless exactly

[@nimrodnameless]

@@msredfox no I genuinely don't know 😂

[@msredfox]

@@nimrodnameless oh, Noel Clarke (the actor for mickey Smith was basically axed for being a sexual predator, so it's only fitting that Harbo Redacted his name

[@nimrodnameless]

@@msredfox oh wth? Mickey is (or was I guess) one of my favourites. Can't believe that, disgusting really

[@user-jn1wm3tb8v]

And quoth our babe Annalise *BYYYYYE MARTHA*

[@nevem5010]

❤️

[@rinmixx]

3:20 what?

[@rinmixx]

"If you are dead then why are you a--" yes I must agree very good question

[@Cybermat47]

‘Martha and redacted’ lmao

[@mattthesilent777RED]

The Thirteenth Doctor can't even reassure her own companion about cancer? Even more reason to hate her

[@isabellaearnhardt6380]

💖

[@ChenShaham]

Spoiler warnings please!!! I don't know why I still watch these videos after I know there are no spoiler warnings and I still didn't finish the series 😅 guess I'm addicted

[@peachysakura24]

I have to agree with not explaining who Martha was! I watched Torchwood first, not knowing it was a Doctor Who spin-off. My mom was watching Children of Earth, I liked it, and I went back and watched the series. All of the little DW references went right over my head. When I later went back and watched DW, I was like "Oooooooooh, I see!" Then we got to series 3 and I was like "Yes! I love Martha! She was great on Torchwood!" About 2 episodes in, she became my least favorite companion. I still love her Torchwood episodes, but I skip 97% of Series 3 on rewatches. So, yeah, watching Torchwood with no prior knowledge of Doctor Who is an interesting experience. Where did Jack disappear to at the end of series 1? What is the right kind of doctor? How does he know Martha? Who is the person they keep referring to? Why don't they explain these things? It's just as interesting watching Doctor Who with knowledge of Torchwood going in. Jack is immortal, so why is he worried about dying? If he isn't immortal now, how does that happen? Oh! That's where Jack went! Good times. :)

[@flyhyland]

Hm, you change titles a lot.

[@HarboWholmes]

Everyone does

[@flyhyland]

@@LiamLAC It increases the algorithm? How?

[@kaykutcher2103]

@@flyhyland It likes certain words I suppose.

[@nazaren45]

👍👍