Tormach 440: Can it cut Stainless and Titanium?

[@deanneumann8594]

thanks for this excellent vid John. I started watching your videos when you had the Taig CNC mill. I am a hobbyist with a Taig CNC also, so I always struggled with speeds & feeds recommendations that assume a 1.5HP+ machine and don't quite work for a 1/4HP desktop mill. When milling steel on my little benchtop mill I have always had to cut down the chipload a lot because as you know the Taig can't go lower than 1100 RPM, so we're forced to use very small diameter cutters and slow feed rates. This video has taught me that my chip loads have been so low that I've been rubbing not cutting! Thanks for the "don't go below half a thou" chipload rule of thumb !!

[@mikeatkurzzobelinc.7033]

On titanium if you ever decide to drill into it save yourself the head ache and get a carbide drill. Makes a world of difference you can run it way faster with little wear and goes through like a standard hss drill in steel would. Also I love Helical tools and would highly recommend there 3 flute Aluminum end mills.

[@sinnsvak]

Great video as always! Now I'd wish there was an equivalent in metric units!

[@Clinteastvveed]

You should be doing much higher rpm/feed in both of those materials after you account for chip thinning.. even slotting you should be doing double the rpm with an 0.125" tool in both of those materials if they are coated. Also those materials are not heat treated, they are from alpha knife supply and they are anneeled

[@exkenna]

Of course the 440 cat mill Ti and SS. Remember, material group always dictates surface footage and that's where you start. Usually around 90-120 sfm for 6AL4V. It also has a low modulus of elasticity so it retains heat and that's the biggest danger because you can't rub this material or it'll heat up on you. Don't baby it, take a healthy chip load so most of the heat will go out with the chip. Sharper tools work best. You're on the right track.

[@calico88]

John, This is what I've been waiting for ! Great video and explanation. Yes 220volt is not available on 440, already asked. Second batch is open but now idea when the delivery. Now I convinced that 440 can cut hard metal but the horse power is limited. I wonder why no 440 user yet on utube? They don't deliver the first batch?

[@nailedart4431]

Thank you John, great video. Here things get more serious, your tips and advice machinists will use a lot. This shows your abilities and experience, you pulled this up as expert. Yeah titanium and stainless here we go.

[@rdwilliams9581]

I just found your site. I started in machine shop in 1959. After serving 4 year apprenticeship they came out with NC. 1965 to 2002 I worked on just about everything that cut metal from 2,3,4,5,6 axis. I love to see you work. You have a good attitude toward working out your problems. Attitude is 99.9% of solving a problem. Your equipment is O.K. but not great. Haas is good to learn on but there are better and stronger machines out there. It all depends on where you plan on going with your shop. I went clean room tight tolerance 0.00005 on production and tighter on prototype. As for your Cad-Cam I don't know Fusion 360. I used Mastercam and SolidWorks and Unigraphics. Keep up the good work.

[@turningpoint6643]

I haven't done tons of Ti or SS, but some of it can work harden in an instant. My Ti supplier told me to keep the feeds up and the DoC down a bit. So far that's worked fine. I've never used anything special for cutting tool materials, and good quality HSS tooling from a reliable manufacturer works fine. Drilling you have to be positive with your moves, in and out of the hole with no dwell time. I did see the mention of carbide drills etc. No doubt tool life would be greatly extended with that. My points above were for the usual manual machine tools and not CNC. If the tool geometry is correct for the material, then even Sherline machines will process most or maybe all grades of Ti or stainless.

[@wb93612]

+Turning Point 300 series work hardens and is a pain when first learning to cut it. Some of the 400s are nasty.

[@whatwasithinking8159]

John, you've got a new favorite viewer. Thanks for all of your awesome videos. I'm really enjoying watching them.

[@vdub5818]

Pretty much all I work with is exotic stuff like titanium, zirconium, random high end knife steels, stainless and carbon damascus (pattern welded steel), mokuti/timascus (pattern welded titanium), superconductor, etc. All are just as easy to machine as one another IMO. With the exceptions of tapping, and materials that like to spontaneously combust. No joke, tormach superfly throwing zirconium fireballs in the shop at 1125RPM is about enough to make you drop a negligent deuce. I have found that with these materials there really is no go to SFM or feedrate. Its all about the specific machine tool, and cutting tools you are using. Alot of trial and error but once you figure it out its a piece of cake. After being so piss scared about work hardening titanium or stainless I now just run almost all my endmills at 1125 and feed accordingly. With 1/2" I drop to 700. Granted all my work is manual fed so I feel alot more of whats going on and dont take intricate cuts like you do. Thats what works with my setup and lakeshore carbide endmills. Speaking of endmills. Altin coated 4 and 6 fluters from lakeshore are the knees of the bee for titanium. Just wish they made their 6 flute in a stubby. Their 5 variable flute altin coated stubbies work great in stainless and pretty well in titanium too. For roughing their is no greater beast than the fireplug from lakeshore. For sticky materials like zirconium a strong air blast is mandatory to avoid chips packing the flutes though Dont know if that random mess of info helps anyone but let me know if you think I can help with random materials like that.

[@mikeatkurzzobelinc.7033]

+Finn custom knives What kind of taps are you using? Have you looked into taps for those specific materials? Titanium taps need to have a cutting edge that jets out like a cresting wave and comes to a peak to prevent the work hardening your talking about. Greenfield makes amazing taps for these materials. The EM series taps (which they may have renamed some of them but if you ask a distributor they can tell you) Come in EM-SS, EM-Ti and EM-NI which are for your hard to machine metals that don't fall under the other two. I can't tell you how much of a difference they make. We are talking 75 sfm in pure titanium. Give those a shot let me know how it goes

[@vdub5818]

+Mike at Kurz & Zobel Inc. Pretty much got it worked out now. I just like to run hidden screws as often as possible and tapping 2-56 in a blind hole can be a pain. I pretty much use all form taps either from balax or OSG. Still need to try a ti specific tap though thanks for the info

[@mikeatkurzzobelinc.7033]

+Finn Custom Knives Yeah blind holes can been a real pain in the more exotic materials. I actually have had to do 2-56 threads in a blind hole in titanium. They offer the EM series in a spiral that pulls the chip out so you can go into a blind hole. I've used some OSG as well I'm not sure if they have it in the spiral but I would assume so. Only thing I'd suggest is stay away from form tapping the work hardening materials use a cut tap whenever possible.

[@mikeatkurzzobelinc.7033]

+Finn Custom Knives oh and one last thing. I dont know if you do or not but make sure you get a good tapping oil. I personally use cool tool and it is specifically formulated for things like titanium and stainless. And Ik there are a lot of other good ones out there as well

[@vdub5818]

+Mike at Kurz & Zobel Inc. been using tapmagic xtra thick but I keep hearing molydee is perfect for titanium but just smells awful

[@taheralimo]

hi , i am very new at this realm and I really love it , my question is how to determine which tool to use, is there any guide to know the type of cutter that does a certain cut

[@chadkrause6574]

helical makes great tools, that's all we use in terms of endmills and chamfer tools. Did you use Helical Milling Advisor? it's a program that will tell you the proper feeds and speeds, and it's very intuitive and easy. take a look at it!

[@chadkrause6574]

I see you did. Got a little ahead of myself

[@someusername121]

What are you supposed to do when you have a high-accuracy fine tolerance part where going really fast isn't so much an option? I'm thinking specifically of a precise semi-conductor machining operation where .02mm matters.

[@jdrinkh2o]

In those materials I run my 5 Flute 1/8" tool at 13,000 RPM (425 SFM) and 82 IPM at 10% engagement. Gotta go as fast as possible in the slow materials!

[@atomkinder67]

+jdrinkh2o I was looking at his 41SFM and thinking how nutballs slow that is.

[@jdrinkh2o]

+NYC CNC I know you said start slow, but why exactly would you be at molasses speed?

[@jdrinkh2o]

What I'm saying is that you should be running at max spindle speed, which will allow you to be running higher feedrates - because the tool is small. These tough materials still can handle high spindle speed with small tools. No reason to not be at 10K RPM.

[@josesaucedo1619]

i drill a part made out of titanium and drill dia. is only. 028 thousands with 10,000 rpms and. 0005 feed ipr .250 depth

[@petermunro3593]

What about loudness? I have heard you started milling in an apartment, and ran a shop vac to hide the sound. What mill did you start with? How loud is a Tormach 440, or 770? I am building a 3 axis mill with about a 1 or 1.5hp motor. The plan is to cut stainless steel, titanium, or aluminum mostly. How loud might the machine be? What can I do to quiet the machine? I plan to make a sound proof enclosure. Does slowing the machine down reduce noise? What happens to surface finish if the speed is low?

[@GeofDumas]

Great information you have here! Those blade steels really do pose a challenge. What kind of coolant is that -- the white stuff?

[@adithmart]

I like your videos. Should we use coolant, or mist with these harder materials? I ask because it might shock the tooling with a temp change. The question was more for the Titanium not the SS.

[@bishopmachineshop3216]

Great video as always. How do you like the fog buster compared to the Trico.

[@philhawtin5269]

Do you have that speed and feed spreadsheet available for download? Thanks for all the videos you make!

[@EasyFold007]

Really love your videos and the 60P just does it perfectly justice :)

[@myvideosource66]

Thanks for all your videos. I notice that you mostly cut aluminium on those machines. Those feedrates look slow to me as well. Why not buy a nice used bridgeport instead this?

[@neanderthor66]

My company has Mastercam, but no one really knows how to use it. I've been running a machine that I just have to write out G-Code, but that will soon be changing. I've looked into tech schools that offer classes on it, but I can only attend if I take the whole machining diploma program. I'd like to , but it's not realistic. So, my point, how would you suggest I go about figuring out Mastercam, while keeping up with production, and not making a lot of scrap?

[@DStrayCat69]

Awesome stuff :-) I read through many of the comments... You have a great audience :-) Very knowledgeable, very experienced :-) I'm learning from them too... Yippie! lol

[@UnorthodoxFabrication]

What's your favorite coolant for that fog buster?

[@UnorthodoxFabrication]

Thanks John. I'll buy that, I'm sure you are using the best. I hear cool mist discoloration is common and also that it rusts the table a bit.

[@brycetolley3458]

@nyccnc what is this song your using? An original mix or something else would love to know. Keep up the great videos mate

[@brycetolley3458]

NYC CNC thanks

[@evka3220]

does it cut ceramic and mineral glass?

[@gunlover7851]

I have tried 10 times to call them to get a ETA on ATC for system. Any way to get a hold of the?

[@Jake-2011-]

Would like to pre order but I was told no 230v available and can't ship to Australia now.

[@csq530]

Whats the 1rst material bar and which is the 2nd. Which one is STAINLESS STEEL?

[@aries6776]

1st is S30V stainless, you can tell when he examines the result and it has a visible grain structure. The titanium is really smooth by contrast.

[@ToddHCNC]

My girl friend worked at heilical coating bits

[@scottroberts4310]

I've got a an aluminum project with a PCNC 770 at school and I am very new to machining. I will be using a 1/6in 4 flute carbide end mill for doing some slotting (cutting out letters) with a max DOC of .125in what SFM should be a good starting point? I currently have a SFM of 150 in Fusion360 but I am thinking this may be a bit too high and I have not had a chance to go and do a test cut.

[@scottroberts4310]

+metalhead2508 correction to my original comment it's a 1/16in end mill. My IPT is around 0.0002in so I'll need to change that. Does half or 3/4 thou sound good for a .0625in 4 flute cutter? I'm a little worried about breaking it since I only have one. Also what are some guidelines as to WOC and DOC when slotting with small end mills?

[@atomkinder67]

+Scott Roberts You want that little cutter going as fast as possible. 150 SFM is slow for HSS in aluminum, much less carbide. Is this a ball mill or square end, and what sort of coolant have you got? With a good mister, I'd go 10k RPM (max of the machine), and start at 1/2 diameter for your depth of cut (about .032 in this case). Pay attention to chip evacuation and play with your depths until you get what you want. The four flute is going to hinder your depth abilities. A 2- or 3-flute would be better. Start at .0003/flute and go from there (12 IPM).

[@scottroberts4310]

+atomkinder67 Thanks a lot for the info! This is a flat carbide AlTiN coated end mill from Kodiak Cutting Tools. The mill is set up with the stock 770 flood coolant system (single nozzle) and Premier 600 coolant. 4 flute was all I could get my hands on for not too much money and little lead time so I'm stuck with it for this project. I might have room in some of the letters to clear material with an 1/8in 2 flute I have. I'm gathering that I should probably back off of the DOC by about half especially given my lack of experience with this cutter.

[@skrubol]

+Scott Roberts That's far from ideal for aluminum. Aluminum tends to stick to AlTiN coating, and 4 flutes is not good for Al. I'd go no more than 1/2d (1/32") depth if you have to slot or use most of the width of the cutter and make sure your coolant is getting to the cutter. When you break the endmill, replace it with a 3-flute hi-helix or variable flute from maritool or lakeshorecarbide. Uncoated is fine, ZrN, CrN, also good. TiN and similar are not as good as uncoated, and AlTiN/TiAlN are to be avoided. 3-flutes tend to be Aluminum optimized geometry. If you can't get a 3-flute, 2-flutes are much better than 4 for Al.

[@scottroberts4310]

+Jon Baker Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea about the coating. It will be interesting to see how this project turns out, and how fast I will break this cutter. I really appreciate all the input and advice y'all have given me.

[@drecute]

Can you please share the speeds & feeds spreadsheet for this video. Thanks

[@10010110100102Error]

wait, you don't have data sheets from the tool manufacturer with which you can calculate your rpm and feed rate? that's odd. if you get your toolt here (in germany) you usually request these datasheets and they'll send it to you with the tool or per e-mail (if you request that). the size of the tool does not matter that much as you have certain ranges of tool diameter (3-5mm for example, so any tool diameter between 3mm and 5 mm will be calculated with these numbers). you then take your Vc (turn it from meters/minute to millimeters/minute) from the data sheet, divide it be the tool diamater times pi and you have your rpm. multiply the result with the number of flutes and the suggested feed per flute and you have your feed rate. not much to do and you don't hve to have massive amounts of paper for any possible tool you are using. it can be used for two flute, three flute, four flute, etc. endmills without difference (as long as they're from the same manufacturer). it's the same for face mills, only that instead of using the number of flutes you are using the number of carbide inserts and you will have to use the data sheets from the insert manufacturer.

[@vdub5818]

looks like some material from alpha knife supply!

[@633r]

is that water that cools down the drill bit?

[@AdMan-The-LabRat]

I LOVE Ti, FIRST

[@ExtantFrodo2]

Jaw dropping end user privacy policy from Helical Milling Adviser. You think you need access to my files and photos and contacts? DELETE!

[@eat5hams]

Thanks for another great vid! Love seeing the 440!