Torpedo vs. the real deal | Comparison with That Pedal Show

[@Spidouz]

To make an accurate comparison between IRs and Mic, it's better to just make your own IR with the current Mic setup. Otherwise, there's way too much variants in the final sound. We can clearly hear the IRs don't really match.

[@Spidouz]

It's like moving a mic few inches on the left or right and then you're not in the same spot and you have a complete different tone... not better or worse, just different. And of course, you will then always end with people saying: "The first tone was so much better", and then others with "the second tone was so much better". That's why it's better to be very prudent when you claim to do "comparison". I think here "first impressions" would probably more accurate. My 2¢

[@JimijaymesProductions]

Yeah but if you can make your own IRs then you need to own the cabs and the mics etc etc, the good thing about IRs is you can get the essence of a fawn 1963 VOX AC30 cab miced with a Nueamann 67 and R121, something I couldnt do at all atm. I think this is more of a comparison of IR products and good sounding cabs at low volume then a scientific comparison.

[@JimijaymesProductions]

Of course IRs cant reproduce speaker distortion and if you have ever heard a Celestion Alnico or Greenback compressing and distortion it is magical!

[@Spidouz]

+JimijaymesGuitarist The whole point to make your IRs is when you want to make a A/B comparison and to remove all other variants. If it's only to have different cabs with different mics and different positions, etc... then it doesn't matter since you're not trying to comparing, but just selecting what will sound good to you. Also, you can reproduce distortion and compression too since it's part of the sounds. This is exactly what the Kemper does with amps anyway. You need more than just a sine wave to create your IRs, but it's definitely possible.

[@JimijaymesProductions]

Phil Smith yeah I totally understand your point, they could make IRs of the cab they are using to get similar studio tone but at that point you are just comparing IRs to the real thing which is never gonna be better because at its ultimate it sounds exactly the same. For recording purposes definately, it's like using samples of the kit you are recording to get consistency it is of course the most accurate, but I think this video is more for the 'should I get an IR loader or a decent cab to practice' people. If you have a space to record quality IRs with quality equipment you probably aren't the target market for these videos. I use both a real cab and IRs, why? because as nice as my cab is it can't be an ac30 and a rectifier cab. The kemper is different thing to an IR loader, it is dynamic and emulates distortion and dynamics which static IRs cant

[@MatoMisik]

For those who wondering WHAT CABS was used for this video, it is COFFEE CUSTOM CABS > coffee-audio.com/cabinets

[@helloferdi]

I think the points being made by Mick and Dan around preferring a cab vs monitors in the room to get the full experience to fuel the creative process is super valid. What was compared in the room was a "recorded sound" versus a "cab sound" - of course they're going to be different and even listening it back through the powers of KZbins the difference is palpable. Having said that, the Torpedo allows for the full experience as well with a pass-through to a speaker, so I'm not sure why that wasn't mentioned. I own a Torpedo Live and that's how I use it - listen through the cab when I can, but being able to put on a set of cans to practise when others in the house are not to be disturbed, or record w/o the hassle of mic'ing up is super convenient. And as others have pointed out, for recording there's a boat load of tweaking and IR-loading you can do to find the perfect tone. Which, and this is not a critique, was a bit mismatched in this instance as the IR chosen sounded like a lower-fi version of the mic'ed up cab. Great video and great playing though!

[@michael_caz_nyc]

I was on the fence between the Captor X and the Fryette PS-2 Power Station. I'm now leaning towards the PS-2. I much-preferred the Mic & Cab and it was not even close for me. I'll watch anything that Dan & Mick do (honestly) they could be gardening or making a cup-of-tea and I'd watch, for the hilarious tangents.

[@juanfichtl2011]

To be fair, IRs and silent recording (and quieter stages) are a blessing for people with tinnitus or sensitive ears. I wouldn't be able to rock out and keep tinnitus at bay without these contraptions, so I really think it's a moot point for people like me.

[@heythere6983]

Don’t you need inner ears anyways? Those things are shooting like 70 dB right into the ear and the show is still loud no?

[@aquilarossa5191]

How to make up for lack of volume and lack of that interact between the speaker moving air and the guitar? Use another monitor, send just guitar to it, and sit right in front of it when playing. It is not exactly the same, but near enough and allows you to get feedback etc.

[@funknoodles]

2 major mistakes this video makes and hopefully it'll be addressed soon - Impulse responses are NOT for recreating being physically in the same room as the cab and feeling that SPL and air and all that good stuff. It's for the sound of it when recording through a mic and preamp and hearing it out of the studio monitors or the front of house PA speakers (without the drums bleeding into the mic) for live. It's for silent recording even when you're pushing the power tubes into that sweet saturation without blowing out your ear drums or forcing neighbors to kick down your doors. Not using a well shot IR of the same cab, in the same room, with the same mics is not an apple to apples comparison. There are a lot of comparisons done the way I described and time and time again - you can't tell the difference. The problem with not doing a super fair comparison is that people will always be quick to dismiss the newer, digital solutions and stick to the tried and tested way of doing it simply because they think it is better. I understand wanting to do it that way but I feel like this video under represents how great IRs can be. Would I take a blaring cab moving my pant legs over a quiet IR - Yes, of course - if the situation allows. In this day and age however, it's just simpler to shoot an IR of your cab with the best mic(s) and the most optimal position(s) and just have it be consistently the same everytime when gigging and recording. Especially for gigging when more and more stages and gigs are starting to do in ears and quieter stages and you can't crank up your damn Plexi.

[@ThomannsGuitarsBasses]

You're right in pretty much everything you write. Still, the title is: "IR's - Do we like them?" We are not saying IR's don't work as good as mic'd cabs. Our point was: as long as it's possible to use a traditional guitar amp+cab setup, we prefer using that. If you're using pedal distortion, you wont have volume issues -> a clean amp will sound awesome even way under the drummers volume. I know, a cranked Plexi is a whole different story. Using in ear monitoring: many play with in ears and still use cabs on stage, me included. Step one: I set my amp to match the drummers volume. Step two: I put in the in ears and mix in the rest of the band - keys, main vocals, a bit of bass. If I find my amp's sound too quiet due to the ear plugs, I mix that also in the in ear, but not too much. If you care about your hearing and don't set the volume too high you will still hear (and also FEEL) your cab on stage. And that makes a huge difference indeed! ;-) By the way, if your sound guy starts complaining about the guitar rig being as loud as the drums are, you should send him to a Joe Bonamassa concert for a shock therapy. haha! //Cheers, Kris

[@funknoodles]

@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses The FOH guys love the quiet stages and I can understand why. I love the raw air of the cabs hitting my back more than anything but ultimately as a gigging musician - I find that the FOH sound is what it's all about and if the audience is having a good time then I can vibe to that on stage and be happy and (to my dismay) let go of a giant stack behind me.

[@funknoodles]

@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses... And yes I love guitar amps being cranked and would rather have that power tube compression and saturation you get at higher volumes rather than low volume preamp saturation. I guess the lower wattage amps are a good solution for that. My original point though is that the IR part of the video is a misrepresentation of the capabilities of the technology. Anyone without prior knowledge would probably think that IRs aren't realistic at all if this video is all they have been exposed to. I find the opposite to be true actually. IRs can be realistic to the point that the differences are negligible to almost none to the ear.

[@guillaumepille]

@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses (hey Kriss and the team;))I agree on the principle to prefer the untouched sound of whatever cabinet you're using, nothing's better than the actual speaker, but you should recommend using good studio monitors (with more than 8" speakers) and not trying to compare a low cost headphones/wedge/tiny home studio monitors with a full blown out 4x12 guitar cabinet. The laws of physics are pretty hard to bend. I can put you on stage in front of proper monitors that will push enough air to make your 4X12 sound very, very small.

[@wellsyboy]

Thomann Music Yeah but if you use the title as your argument it makes this video pointless - who cares if Dan and Mick like them or not - it’s subjective so the only person that matters is the person experiencing it - totally pointless video

[@gerryloughran1676]

IR sounds prefect with tone and fade out - but Mic/Cab got the depth and imperfect harmonic characteristics that simply sound live - kids of the future will use IR for sure - but this generation have grown up with Mic and Cabs .

[@maxupp]

How does the Captor compare to the Studio?

[@andyl1118]

I also have to say that the Torpedo doesn't sound bad at all, maybe with a different IR it would have been even better. The Cab + Mic was superior, though. Torpedo sounds a little bit... "tinny" (especially with more gain), which is also my personal experience while fiddeling around with one recently. Nonetheless, with the right IR, it's a cool and practical unit. These things have come a long way, and I suppose they will improve further.

[@newrockorder]

Andy L what is the right ir for gainy stuff?

[@JulianDaniels]

Come on guys. Use better IR for a comparison or make your own IR. Those stock things on the Torpedo aren't that good.

[@512banana1]

really? are you sure? like what IR, from Red Wire?

[@LCRLive687]

Most people doing torpedo videos have the problem of the user not picking a good cab. Its as if people do not knopw how to use it. Their stuff sounds so good I can't believe people on youtube actually make it sound that buried.

[@JohnPerryMusic]

@@LCRLive687 I have that problem too! I have a Friedman BE-100DLX and can’t mimic its cab sound for the life of me

[@JimijaymesProductions]

As seen in the other video comparing the tele's, that 60s tele is so cranking, its amazing it must just be the resonance that it is so loud sounds so great though! My newest tele build is a little like that in that it is just louder then my other tele acoustically and currently has very low wind pickups (SD Anqtiquity IIs) which I am going to put slightly higher gain pickups (Creamery Tapped Tele) to get a bit more warmth and punch but it isnt super quiet with the SDs like I thought it would be.

[@JonathanKillstring]

It feels like I might be the only musician who doesn't prefer a super-loud amp. I've been on plenty of loud stages, and I dunno, fam. I want to get that thump from the bass and the kick drum, not the guitar. The whole creative process thing just doesn't resonate with me the same way. Maybe it's because I'm a multi-instrumentalist? Started as a drummer? It's fascinating to me. More power to Mick & Dan, but I guess our brains work differently, haha. :D

[@juanfichtl2011]

Same here, I often find that the volume at which an amp sounds great depends greatly on the size of room you're playing, I don't really enjoy cranking my tube amp on my room while sitting next to it.

[@bluecat2831]

To me this sounded like the cabs were mic'd going direct into the video mix and the sound from the torpedo wasn't going direct but mic'd from a monitor. Massively bypassed and not very professionally done. In fact what they should have done was capture the cab sound in an isolation box and play it back through a monitor to be compared with the torpedo through a monitor.

[@BV_Beve]

Mike & Dan assuming you flew did you check in your guitars, & if so were they in a road case or just the hard case ? To my ears here's a bit more coming through the interweb from the amp/cab. Understand where all 3 of you are coming from with your thoughts on it all & would agree & yes the TN studio great piece of kit to do what it's been designed to do.

[@nicopineapples3238]

Might be due to the chosen IR, but switching to the cab+mic sounds like you've taken a blanket off the cab - coming from someone who almost exclusively uses IRs....

[@joeysgear1419]

you guys should have spliced in the POST recording passes of the cabinets so we don't hear the room ambience of the blasted cabs.

[@ThomannsGuitarsBasses]

Hey, thanks for the comment. We couldn't do much about it, since we didn't do the audio for this video. We made it at GuitCon which was a guitar youtuber convention a few years ago. The GuitCon crew recorded and mixed everything so we only had a master file at the end. //cheers, Kris

[@derekec]

I've been so critical for years that I've spent hundreds on digital stuff that all the reviews applaud but for me they sit collecting dust. So I've been using tube amp line out (pre+power) direct to console with attenuator for live monitoring. It records well. All these loadbox amp eliminators and IR's don't sound good to me but it's all on ipad speakers so I can't fairly judge. I've going to take another plunge and buy. IR cab added to my current setup can only help so I'm hoping I find something I'm missing.

[@astrokratov_official]

Coz all this stuff is made firstly and mainly for live shows. And of you have 25 gigs a month -on very different stages and equipment - one processor is always better.

[@jettsom]

Why limiting to one option only? In my studio, i have a stack Mesa TC-50 combo with a Thiele cab and often use my Mesa also with IR run through 2x Yamaha DXR mkII speakers. At 1100w each let me tell you, it' moves air alot! That way I have a wide variety of options at my disposal.

[@denislachance7277]

Îm curious to know the purpose of that test ? Testing 8’’ monitors against a 12’’ cab speaker ?? We all know that you won’t get the same SPL level so you won’t « vibrate » as much as with the real deal but the purpose of Torpedo isn’t just for live. If it was to compare IRs vs CAB, you should have put the cab far away and listen through the same 8’’ monitors. Just my 2 cents 😁....Maybe it is just the way I understood the purpose !

[@97guitarzan]

I think the only fair and correct comparision is both ways being monitored with studio monitors and with miced guitar cab in an isolated/soundproof room. You can't beat a cranked amp in a room....no arguement there..

[@IsaacLausell]

Dan's tele sounds massive, really cool

[@m00plank90]

To cross pollenate between this video, and the mooer radar one, where Mick says "there's something harsh in the top end". this is something I've noticed with digital gear too. I have also noticed in the start of this video, the REV is turned right down, and that harshness is there. I think rather than just a "digital problem" it's something with the physical card of the speaker, or the act of travelling through the air, and maybe our ears that creates this harshness. As the levels go up, it smoothes out.

[@samueljacobson470]

Did they use the same or similar Cab in the two notes as well as the same setup they used with real amps (like the mic setup and room position).

[@DaemonRicks]

I think the torpedo looses the thickness of the sound but still sounds quite good... just like a cheaper amp.

[@riffsnreviews]

Cab+mic all the way. That being said, the cab IR is possibly very different to the cab... One thing though the effects are way more noticeable, way less subtle on the IR, especially the time based/modulation effects, and not really in a good way, apart from the different obvious different character of the IR I'm really not sure a different IR would affect that part of the sound when it comes to the effects coming through more... The IR just lacks dynamics, sounds plasticy and lacks life, not sure that would really change with a different IR, real moving air is important I believe, that's what you ear and mic are hearing really the air, the sound pressure, probably really hard (impossible) to emulate. The Torpedo sounded very EytschPi42 ish (nothing against him, like his demos and he's way better at recording than I ever will be lol). But one thing for sure, this isn't really a great test (sorry dudes lol) without taking the IR off of the cab that's used with the same mic placement, but as you said you weren't looking to get the exact same sound (which is a shame really when you have "vs" in the title of your video...)

[@JimijaymesProductions]

RiffsNReviews sounded hp42 ish cos it probably is the cab he uses or a similar one and I totally hear you a bit sterile sounding.

[@SixStringAlliance]

In this demo I use a Mesa 2x12 with a SM57 and the same Mesa Cab from the Mesa/Two Notes WTE IR pack.. I switch between both through out the track. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGWUp416a5tog7M

[@gbaren]

Mic'd cab is just more dynamic and has a a 3D sound & feel…especially with lower gain.

[@mrnorbotron3308]

This comparison complete free of any sense. YOU HAVE TO COMPARE THE IR MADE FROM THE CURRENT SETUP WITH THE CURRENT SETUP! You did it horribly wrong. lol

[@pedrolourenco2707]

I can play my orange at 2am without waking up the neighbours, and still sound better than guitar thru monitors!

[@facepalmjesus1608]

this is a quality vs quantity situational matter on one hand you have the real thing....on the other hand you have a digital sound palette

[@kierenmoore3236]

These IR units always sound very-much lacking to me. I can never understand all the positive feedback for them ... perhaps those people are just making far more allowances, "for what it is"? I don't know ... Best 'molested' sound I've had has been through an Aracom attenuator (which has a speaker sim out). Check out SoloDallas' videos ... sounds better than anything I've heard on a Torpedo, Ox etc video ... ... ?!! :P

[@goanguitarmusic1492]

The Kemper is still light years ahead in terms of recreating a miced amp tone

[@newrockorder]

Matt B U R absolutely right. Next on my list.

[@MrTwangstaable]

I lived with one for years, I wouldn't go so far as to say it's light years ahead, as far as cab simulation goes the kemper is not particularly special. I've had better luck using an analogue drive with a digital power amp sim, IR loader and digital time-based effects. The kemper is a nice unit, though I'll never buy another monolithic solution again. Much prefer modular units that give me flexibility, reliability and backup redundancy.

[@veerchasm1]

IR’s sound like crap to me, it’s just another stop gap tech until the next great gimmick comes out. It may be a useful tool but it will not replace a mic and an amp. If it injects money into the music economy so be it

[@lexluthor9705]

This video is misleading. There's no gain matching, it's impossible to compare the sounds. Louder is always better. I known it wasn't the purpose of the video but you're making an undeserved bad reputation to two notes

[@guitarclassics]

A very big mastering (compressor) mistake many people tend to make a lot. Louder feels better even if there is no difference between the two sources. To make a good comparison the level MUST be exactly the same. Otherwise even professional sound engineers make the mistake and think louder sounds better.

[@frantisca]

Torpedo sounds like if you are going through a telephone...! :(

[@arielista]

It did not help that the guy kept changing settings on the torpedo, not a fair comparison. I use the torpedo as well as amps. The IRs that I've created are very similar to my amps if not fuller sounding, in a live situation like straight to a PA

[@funknoodles]

There are far better comparisons where its the same cab, mic, mic position being A/B tested on KZbin. This under represents how great IRs can be, so I wouldn't really put a final judgment on the Torpedo based on this alone.

[@ericpalkovich]

This is how NOT to do a proper comparison.

[@johnsmith-wy2ok]

bunch of delay on the fucking "tele".

[@tomjones5418]

Didn't sound too good to me. Sucks, I wanted to like it but every video makes me think no.

[@derekec]

I've been shopping and researching and coming up with same conclusion every damn time. Always sterile and uninspiring. BUT, I've got to try "something"...

[@some_g333]

1st 😁😁😁😁😁😁😁