Torque VS Horsepower!! What do you really need? - 4K - FM Live 12-5-24

[@ads1035]

Honestly, I'm just impressed by how flat the torque curve on a naturally aspirated BP engine is. Its practically at peak torque from 2k all the way up till 5k.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

They did a good job on the engine design. Thanks for watching.

[@DominicLeung87]

Power under the curve is what matters Engine torque means nothing of you have more than one gear ratio, torque at wheels=actual force pressing you forwards. Power is invariant (with respect to gearing). In any given gear, your max acceleration will be at max torque but at any given speed your acceleration will be highest* in whichever gear yields* maximum power (usually this is the lowest gear which won't lead to your conrod escaping through the side of the block) Edit 1: (slight change in terminology)

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Thanks for watching.

[@gregfelix6979]

Will FM ever come out with a Supercharger kit again for an NB?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Unlikely. We're big fans of turbos for the Miata application.

[@louisolivierfortin]

In simple terms : torque is the force applied. Power is how often you apply that force per unit of time. A diesel engine applies huge force, but usually at low RPMs so their power is somewhat less impressive than their torque figure. A superbike engine applies really low force, but can apply it 15000 times a minute, so high horsepower number as compared to the torque figure. The ideal scenario is having an engine with both caracteristics, meaning high torque that can be sustained at a wide RPM range. Modern turbocharged engines can achieve that, and obviously EV motors.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Thanks for watching.

[@alfonsodelgardeo2422]

Torques are not only what is measured, but actually what is produced. Power is how often that torque can be produced (ie why the formula is (tq x rpm)/5252. As the revs rise, the engine is producing torque more often. I also like the colloquial "power is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far the wall moves".

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Thanks for watching!

[@sharthun2009]

Very informative video. Still deciding if I want to add a turbo to my 2011 that has 176k miles on the odometer.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

A turbo NC makes a very compelling argument - assuming your engine is healthy. Check out the dyno graph in the pictures here: flyinmiata.com/products/flyin-miata-stage-1-turbo-system-2006-15 LOTS of area under the curve.

[@MegaNardman]

I think it's cleanest to explain that "torque vs horsepower" is kind of a misnomer. As you stated in the video, horsepower is just a calculation with only two variables: torque and RPM. What matters for performance is that your power curve matches the RPM range where your engine will be operating for your given application. Powering out of a corner vs powering down a straightaway both rely on the HORSEPOWER of your car, not the torque; horsepower is the figure that expresses the work that your engine is able to perform (torque is a measurement of twisting force). The difference is in the HORSEPOWER that your car generates at low RPM (powering out of a corner) vs the HORSEPOWER that your car generates at high RPM (powering down a straight)....hence, why the area under the curve (and your gearing!) is what really matters in this discussion.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Thanks for watching!

[@mociczyczki]

low speed corner related to crank torq is one more time half story you forget about gearing 🤭🍿 dude low torq at low rpm high power version with enough shorter gearing easy match high torq on low rpm low rpm at high rom first phase of take of low speed corners 👌🏻 and if you setup low tprq hogh power version with perfect gearing like in racing in regard to very spcified track topography low torq /hogh power version always accelerste faster on take of corner even corner with lowest initial speed from apex posiible assuming there be enough grip 👌🏻🤓☕️ dyno graph from 8:50 is perfect egzample miata with stock engine is weaker all the way from idle to5250 rpm less torq/ ess power there but stock above 5250 rpm up to rpm limiter almost 7000 rpm have more power now than let assume its crank hp so stock must have gearing which allow to hold engine between 5250 rpm to 7000 rpm and turbo version need gearing which allow it to stay between let say 4000 to 6000 rpm on track and beacuse both setups generated similar peak and from this rpm range similar avg power for twke of corners overall accelerwtion everywhere there be basicallly no diffrences at trackbetween those 2 setups with slightly favor of stock setup as it have 3-5% more power in peak and avg power from peak in such perfect gearing setup for each offcorse drivetrwin loses maybe marginallly change something here but i queesss it be still in favor of stock setup without turbo very small favor but still 1% 🤭😉👌🏻 feg also when turbo is on 3000 rpm with max throtle stock without turbo must be at 4500 rpm +/- with max throtle than at the same speed they will genrwted the same thrust = acceleration at this point so 🤷🏻‍♂️ the only true stufff which do torque is lower rpm at which is generated the same power nothing more it do and dyno dont measured tprque 🤭 it measured anything whichever engineer which make specific dyno want to b measured ddepened how he setup algorythm it can be energy change or force or power and from power rpm torq everyhing can be setup that be measured at first phase diffrent units and than from those units other units 🤭 sothis that dyno measured torq and than power is only calculated is huge 💩 story 🤭👌🏻😉🍿

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

You got a lot going on here. Maybe, send us an email and it'll be easier for me to read. Thanks for watching.

[@leomadero562]

I'm impressed with how this is written

[@mociczyczki]

@@leomadero562 not me fault english have wrong timing with words 🤭👌🏻 long story short torque itself mean BIG ELEPHANT 💩 period

[@davidzebar6876]

if hp is just torque multiplied by rpm, why do we care about it if it's not felt at the wheels? what difference does it make if you are making 100 torque at 1000rpm vs 10 torque at 10,000rpm? I think there is some intuitive connection between engine RPM and wheel speed or acceleration that is not mentioned in these explanations. If the force on the wheels is the same regardless of engine RPM, then torque should be the only thing that matters in terms of acceleration. We know that is not the case, so what is the relation between engine RPM and force on the wheels? I don't understand the explanation that torque = acceleration out of a corner and horsepower = top speed. Mathematically, it makes no sense. The ONLY thing that matters is acceleration and it would affect the car the same in the corners as on the straights

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

This can be a pretty difficult concept to wrap your head around, so if seeing some visual examples and and/or more in-depth explanation would help, check out this video that Engineering Explained did a few years ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q16weWepm5qrobs. Jason does a great job breaking it down even further to show how and why we need both torque and horsepower numbers to get an idea of the overall power characteristics of an engine in a car.

[@christopherjohnston6343]

Gearing. Gearing is the thing that's missing. Shorter gearing = faster acceleration. High HP cars often can rev higher meaning they can run much shorter gearing which multiples the torque at the wheels. This is part of why cars like S2000 are going to accelerate a lot faster than most diesels despite having half the torque. Power/weight is still king.

[@cruzlopez4449]

I’ve always looked at horsepower as how fast you can go and torque as how fast you get there. And I believe Carroll Shelby said, “Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.”

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

I'd argue torque sells more cars than horsepower does, but that's just me.

[@cruzlopez4449]

@ easier to feel it especially with all these turbo vehicles and EVs that are out. Good point.

[@mociczyczki]

@@FlyinMiataVideoi agree here 👌🏻 torque sells probabaly more car and bikes than power but im not sure 😉👌🏻 people have many diffrent thpughs depend on knowledge in theme experiencd how much they resist on opinion other people so hard to say reallly but what is fact is that more torq less power version is better for road aplication from many point of view 👌🏻

[@mociczyczki]

yep this shelby or whatever who say he say it is one 💩 lie 🤭👍🏻🍿 setup with more power and less torq at engine crank at perfect gearing in the same vehicle type basicallly always in like 999 out of 1000 egzample beat at trwck setup with more torq and less power 👌🏻 feg buel xb 12 r 100 hp 113 nm vs suzuki gsxr 600 125 hp 70 nm both weight similar similar everything put on both the same tire + skill fast rider ontrack race like 10 laps or one best laps time and xb 12 r is smoked in every posiiible race setup 😎👌🏻 in this egzample also must be notice that buell have narrow peak power so not very good setup for racing so it have weak 100 hp and not strong but whatever torque 113 nm shpuld help him on track right against pathetic 70 nm supersport 600 cc tprque but it dont help to much in reality cos tprque is 100% compensate be rpm as long as thers the same power once one of setup have more power dosent matter from biger torq lower rpm or lower tprq higher rpm it start to be superior setup at race trafk assuming perfect gearing for each version 👍🏻👌🏻feg let say each setup engine have 60 hp max all are perfect gearing in regard to theyr peak power width one is 500 cc 50 nm achieve 60 hp at 8545 assuming peak power is where is pewk torq in each some pther is 1000 cc 100 nm 60 hp achieve at 4272 rpm vs other is 2000 cc 200 nm achieve 60 hp peak at 2136 rpm last csn have bigest stroke as it spin lowest rpm so least on crankshaft forces offcorse rciprocwtion mass must be involved so it dont be 100% proportional butit be bigest stroke the lower rpm engine have 👌🏻 now what happen in race frelllly drag race or trafk woth corner wemeber each at perfect gearing 👌🏻 they will go the same cos power is the same only on diffrent rpm each be work cos each have diffrent dispalcement and tprq but power is the same gearing pefect so they will have the same peformance well slightly doffrences due to sloghtly diffrent in drive trwin losess can happen but overall it be very close now setup each woth the same tprq 100 nm but 50 vs 100 vs 200 hp again each on perfect gearing and what happen now ? 200 hp destroy 100 hp and even more 50 hp at each race trafk you want as long as there be enpugh grip for strongest 200 hp setup and 100 hp destroy 50 hp 👌🏻 why this happen ? cos POWER AND NOT TORQ :speed = FORCE IN NEWTONS KGF LBF whatever units you like more so such power absolutely knock👊🏻out torq when it comes to max performance the same as power knock👊🏻out rpms and shortest final gear ratio posiible when it comes to max performance 😎im so sory to wrote this facts but it is what it is 🤷🏻‍♂️🤭😉👌🏻🍿….