Total War: Rome 2 Mechanics: Hoplite Wall : Bracing, Bonus vs Infantry and Defense

Hoplite Wall is an ability available to most units with the Hoplon shield, after which the unit is named. It is very useful defensively and offensively if used correctly.
Note: A perceptive viewer noted that the Hoplites take less casualties 6 ranks deep than 2 - which I think is because the Noble Horse Archers were firing from a depression in the ground in the first instance, and not in the second. On completely flat terrain, the Noble Horse Archers kill about 10-15 more on 6 ranks deep than when the Hoplites are 2 ranks deep, so spaghetti lines are viable.

[@atune2682]

8:49 the guy crashing the video hahahah

[@kingofmaiars]

A most informative video. You make the most through analyses on youtube. Thanks mate.

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Thank you!

[@aliaskim717]

I rarely turned hoplites wall when attacking. I know I'll be using them almost every melee occasions from now on! thx for the video

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Cool! The increase in offensive and defensive abilities is very noticeable!

[@aliaskim717]

although it is baffling that from the video it seems the arrows are missing a lot more than when they were in standard formation, but the horse archers still manages to deal better damage to the hoplites

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Since the units are represented as cylinders in terms of calculating hits, I think it has to do with arrows actually missing between Hoplites but showing up as hits on the animated soldier model, not the entity where hits are calculated on. Kind of like how shields show arrows stuck in them, while that doesn't mean they were blocked as there are actually no shields modelled on the unit, only hit detection to the front, sides and back of the cylinder.

[@butterbean7814]

8:51 lmao

[@cheesetruck4738]

8:45 what did he sayyyyy

[@GeneralJackRipper]

This is an excellent video, thank you. Clear, concise information, delivered slowly and carefully with plenty of demonstrations. Keep up the good work.

[@Ratt611]

im revisiting this game, your videos are great and quite helpful since there are so many unit abilities in this game. Hope you return.

[@destillekiller5637]

8:46 nigga 😂😂😂😂

[@ToneRetroGaming]

I love how he played it off and didn't mention it in video LOL. I wish he would come back.

[@YouAreAsleep]

Thank you so much! I was wondering about this as I want to specialize in Sparta for Tournament play. ^_^

[@maximusnorvegicus]

That can be tough, but they can be very scary with charge + Hoplite Wall.

[@edgarbh01]

Thank you very much for these vids, they are helping me improve a lot and understand the game much more! :D I'm not new to total war games but I'm ashamed that I havent completed any campaign because I felt that I lacked the knowledge to be "good", even against the AI. With that lack of understanding I would rush into battles without knowing how to counter certain units or how to exploit the advantages of certain unit types. For example, took me a while to know that axemen and slingers were good against armoured targets... Keep it up with the videos, they are amazing! Subbed and rated :) Btw, do you know how could I counter Socii Infantry? I'm playing as Carthage atm and those dudes WRECK my infantry...

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Thank you! Which units do you use against the Socii Extraordinarii? Libyan Infantry will take them down if you charge, turn off formation attack and then hit Shieldwall. Skirmishers also work well, because under that 95 armour there's only a 40% missile block chance.

[@edgarbh01]

Maximus Decimus Meridius Tyvm for the information! It worked! Now I can finally stand against roman armies :D At least for now though...

[@funguide1]

+Maximus Decimus Meridius Why do you turn off formation attack? I thought they had fixed formation attack.

[@twentius777]

The chariot's unit card looks like someone on wheelchair with swords

[@dainisbekis9916]

How do you know, when the charge bonus is gone?

[@tramrant]

Let's forget about the hoplite wall formation for a sec. When they were in standart formation and not spread out they took only 34, but then when you stretched them (still in standart formation)they took 39 which would mean your theory is wrong, they take more damage when spread out so more arrows hit them even if they were aiming only in the middle, i mean i get your logic that more arrows should hit when they packed tighter, but game doesn't seem to work like that.

[@TheHalfGorgan]

Hi mate, maybe i missed something, but on the part with hoplite wall vs missiles you conclude that the horse archers get more kills when the hoplites are in their hoplite wall, but as far as i could tell, you stopped the video on the first test (without wall) at 56:37 at which point they had lost 34 men, but on the second test you waited over a minute longer till 55:19 at which point they lost 59 men. However if you look at the kills on the test with hoplite wall at 56:37 they have lost pretty much the same amount of men, 33 to be precise, so shouldn't the conclusion rather be that hoplite wall has little to no effect against missiles?

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Hey! I replied a while back but think I managed to delete it while trying to edit the post on and Ipad. Hoplite Wall. The difference between Hoplite Wall and no Hoplite Wall is usually 10+ kills. The AI isn't a perfect testing partner, and in this video it messes up by moving into a depression in the ground.

[@siddislikesgoogle]

It could have something to do with missile trajectory, so perhaps shield wall is more effective against javelins than arrows which would make sense when up against assault infantry who lob them before charging.

[@thomasv897]

Gotta love the friends messaging the wrong stuff at the wrong time lol

[@edelweiss-]

I think the hoplite wall is sensefull to also push forward towards your enemy to create gaps.

[@ggleplussuxx4787]

Carthaginian hoplites are not typical hoplites, they have 29 melee dmg and better attack, and can therefore be treated as defensive-offensive unit, instead of typically defensive other non-elite hoplites.

[@justinprice7484]

most people use high-tier hoplites since the low-tier ones are trash. Like most use royal spartan hoplites if any

[@martinlukas6867]

when you want tru hoplites, try roma in victare mod, best PHALANX (not wall) for hoplites in Rome II

[@Mr.BlueOfficial]

CA should hier you to explain there damn game!

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Hahaha, thank you. I think the developers would do it much better, I have no idea why so much time is spent on the "flash" of Rome 2 and so little time on explaining the substance.

[@MasterhpIke]

14:15 it seems that it's still better to be in standard formation, without spreading them out though.

[@AlmightyFreshness]

Hey Maximus, could I request a vid detailing exactly how exhaustion and fatigue affect units' combat stats/effectiveness? I've noticed they definitely run slower, but just how bad an idea is it to send a winded group into a melee vs. waiting a bit? The unit card stat sheets don't seem to show any difference in battle.

[@maximusnorvegicus]

If only someone had OH WAIT Total War: Rome 2 Mechanics : Fatigue, the silent killer

[@vitorcarvalho5716]

Dude, my fast forward does not work, help please.

[@Bluemilk92]

Have you ever thought of doing a video on slingers vs archers? I would love to know when any why to bring either unit. Is there value in low priced slingers/archers?

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Yep, that is on the list!

[@Massigangster]

i get always annoyed and saddened when total war is not fully realistic in these manners and thinkin it is all about mechanics... but of course it is..... even then, great game.

[@obelixthegreat5687]

Very interesting. Thanks for the video. Shielwall killing ratio for sword units would also be very informative. Unless i missed it in one of the other videos. I also wonder now if it is worth to spread hoplites in thin lines since there is almost no difference for the killed numbers at the end and they move in strange ways when they are spread.

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Thanks! The Shield Wall video is coming, together with the other defensive abilities, at least one of them tomorrow. Spreading hoplites out is very risky because they will get moved down by any and all shock/melee cavalry. The difference in kills between spread thin and 3-5 deep is as you saw not massive when fired at from the front. A deeper formation will have a larger flank though, so in a battlefield situation that needs to be considered. Having hoplites very thin can be useful if you're using them as arrow bait, with for example Militia level hoplites but for melee I'd say go slightly wider than your enemy with the formation attack turned off in order to wrap around and then activate phalanx.

[@cloore3239]

I more like to use skirmishers and skirmisher cav to force the enemy to gwt in formation and attack so then I whoop their asses with the phalanx

[@sta697]

have you ever tested expert charge defence that many elite hoplites have?does it work better if you charge or if you brace.

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Yeah, I just did some videos on that. You need to stand still, but you don't need to brace - well, you get the bonus from the rear as well, and you're not braced in that direction.

[@ViceArancibia]

why waiting 30 secs after clash to activate hoplite wall?

[@pannik_lucas]

Old video, maybe you got an answer with time or in another one, but here it goes. Because it diminishes the acceleration and speed of the unit, causing less damage due a lesser bonus,

[@cultofmalgus1310]

damn I used to think Hoplites just sucked so hard except for in siege battles but they just require more micro managing..... ah who am I fooling? I'll just do what I always do and use my barbarian infantry to charge the front while I swing my javelins and chariots around the rear for a massacre.

[@karl_fookin_tanner9605]

sick video m8

[@fivemeomedia]

has this been patched?

[@aceous99]

n1gga

[@rodneyrichardson9340]

and Rome took after the way if the greeks look at there gods thay are the same but different names and how they dress and build almost the same rome ain't nothing but a cheap Rip off of what Greece use to be I would like to see how Rome would fair against Alexander the great Rome would have been utterly destroyed

[@Lowco5]

I think that's a very uninformed opinion at best. Interestingly enough, the major greek influences, architecturaly and most religious ones, don't start to appear in Rome until after the greek city states and the kingdom of macedonia were completely under their domain. Then again those greek influences that were already there were mainly due to the many greek city states that were already under Roman domination in the Italian peninsula, sicily, etc. Basically what i'm saying is that, Rome conquered the greeks and then adopted much of their culture, not the other way around..

[@rodneyrichardson9340]

in Real life Spartans was so much deadler cause they we're raised from birth the game doesn't set them rite there stats should be higher and they also had swords after the death of Alexander Greece broke out into a Civial war witch weakend them badley when Rome steped in there was really nothing much left Rome outnumbered every body they won in numbers people like Rome but why like a faction that killed jesus??? If Greece would have been at it's finest Rome would have carryed one he'll of a ass whooping

[@ianpenix4649]

Dude first off the Spartans do have tough unites in the game. Second the Spartans always carried swords (they used a shorter version of the Greek xiphos) In fact all hoplite style troops carried a sword but their first and foremost weapon was the dory spear. Third yes civil wars and city state squabbles happened. But you have to remember Greece was never a untied nation. Only briefly during the the Persian wars, and During the Macedonian hegemony under Phillip and Alexander. And even then not all the city states fought together against the Persians. Hell even some sided with the Persians. Third Macedon was still a strong kingdom by the the time the Romans came onto the scene. They fielded armies of about the same size each battle (expect for Pydna Rome did have slightly more troops) The Greeks lost more men each battle than the Romans did. The Romans won because of their more flexible style of fighting. They didn't use the inflexible slow moving phalanx, but the quick maneuverable manipular legion. Times had changed, warfare had changed pure and simple.

[@Therobin3a]

Yeah, the Spartans weren't raised from birth solely for fighting. They only started training their youth harshly after the battle of Thermopylae so they could spread a big myth around after their king "valiantly died in battle". When rome came to Sparta was only a minor town/village and had trouble fielding a lot of men on its own.

[@thelegendofg2342]

therobin you are so wrong my friend spartans were tought to fight in their youth before their king died also spartans didnt care about walls when somebody asked the king of sparta where is your walls he said look around my soldiers are our walls

[@Mike-gz4xn]

You also must keep in mind that the phalanx had devolved into a much less flexible system than that of Alexander and previous due to the fact that they were designed to fight other phalanxes from the successor states. This can be seen by even longer sarissas to out reach the enemy, but at a great cost of flexibility that Alexander once had. Pyrrhus was able to win against the Romans but couldn't recruit men like they could due to their completely different recruiting system.

[@bp837]

It's not hop-lee-tes, it's hop-lytes.

[@unacittabizzarraechiassosa4143]

Harlowe Iasingston That's how you pronounce it in ancient greek.

[@bp837]

Una città bizzarra e chiassosa Are we speaking Ancient Greek here?

[@jimtroy4380]

Preety much. Οπλίτες*

[@alexkontoulhs3643]

Τόσο απλό..