Total War Warhammer 40K Concerns

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[@michaelmorton6566]

Needs to have space combat and interplanetary travel along with ground combat and settlements

[@brianthomassen2209]

The baseline model for converting 40K to Total War is Empire Total War. This includes both land and sea (space) battles and a way to travel between distant locations.. It also demonstrates a region (sector) approach where within a given sector there are countries (systems) and within those system are cities (planets) to fight over. This concentric layering approach could be narrowed or expanded where the planets include more than one area that needs to be controlled to claim ownership. Likewise things could be expanded to include more sectors, and thereby add more and more races and locales to fight over.

[@tomdog132]

For space battles they could have the attacker board the space ship of the defender. Space ships in 40k are often that massive. So for example if the space marines attack tyranids in space, the space marines board the tyranid ship and they fight there.

[@monkeybot4088]

That's actually a really good idea. Similar to the black arks

[@mindsablaze221]

I think you just solved the space battle dilemma! Just like how island battles are implemented

[@Vitalabyss]

Nah, my guy, listen up, here is what they should do... Start with Zones: Each Zone has 3-5 solar systems. Each solar system represents a 'province' as far as the map area goes. Each Solar System (province) has 2-3 features. These features represent the battlefields. You could have urban, toxic, and desert, for example. This means that you would fight in a hive city siege battle, in a toxic forest or wasteland that would favor machines as infantry take environmental or moral damage, or in open deserts with little to no cover that reduces the speed of anything not hovering or flying. Where the battle is fought should be determined by the closest planet to the engagement. Each Zone should also have a feature, like Warpstorm or Necron Tomb World which spawns neutral forces or effects that attack both sides. Neutrals can be avoided, or even used as traps and difficult terrain tactically. This can even be something the player controls by building "walls" to have something like Imperial Guard conscripts or Hive Termagants that sit as neutrals on the map and battle the other neutrals or enemy armies. (Like garrison troop reinforcements but AI-controlled) Owning a Zone is how you build infrastructure, like owning a city. With each solar system, you've claimed acting like the city's level. If you own 1 solar system in this Zone, you have a lvl 1 city (or village) equivalent. Owning the full Zone acts like a full city and you get bonus defenses with each solar system owned in the same zone. Giving you the same kind of bonus garrison, resources, and taxes you'd get from leveling up a city in TW:WH3. With a specific control point (City/Keep) near the 'main planet' acting as a capture point controlling that Solar System. (This puts an emphasis on using garrison buildings but also keeping forces around to defend your sectors.) Now move on to Sectors: Each Sector has 2-3 Zones. This is where you get your major bonuses. Owning a Sector would be like owning a complete Province in TW:WH3, you get to add a bonus to the whole thing. Sectors also allow for specialty buildings to be built. You cannot build something like the Tyranid's Hive Hierophant, for example, without owning an entire Sector and having the appropriate infrastructure. And maybe you can only build 1 per full sector with the completed requirements. Same for something like the Orc Roc, a specialty Ork spaceship that moves super slow but could one-shot a Solar System by dropping it on the system to take it over. Leaving a Waaah Army behind but destroying the Roc. Finally, The Void: There should be space between each Sector and even small pockets between Zones that are entirely open space. These areas act like the Ocean/Water areas in other Total War games. They should be clearly marked by not having stars in the background or something. But these areas have no ground combat. This is purely space combat. Played like naval battles in the Empire/Napoleon/Rome games. This is how the map should be done. And you are right that the map would have to be HUGE. As for units: Each unit should come with a supporting ship. A Unit of Space Marines gets a Space Marine Battle Barge. Terminator Units get a Battleship. Scout Units get a Strike Cruiser. Something like that. When Fleets engage in The Void it becomes Naval combat, with 1 ship per Unit. And all infantry ships should have the option to board enemy vessels, either killing or capturing them for extra resources post-engagement. (like ransoms you pick up in-combat rather than post-combat) Captured ships should work at 1/2 capacity because they aren't fully crewed. (Unit ships remain fully crewed even after using the boarding ability because it's the ground units that boarded the ship. And boarding the Tyranids should probably heal them since you did just send them a load of biomass.) Different species have different ships and abilities. The Imperium, for example, are heavily armed and armored but also use broadsides making them especially dangerous when approached from the side. Whereas Dark Eldar are fast and have a manner of stealth, but fire from the bow so they are weak on the sides and back. Maybe Tyranids specializes in some kind of carrier-type ship that sends out endless tides of small fighter/bomber organisms that are short-range but omnidirectional. When traveling, sieging, or engaging, you will see your leader's spacecraft with some escorts little escorts around it. Afterburners while travelling, planet bombardment while sieging, and firing its guns at the enemy craft while engaging. (Maybe the lead character can stand astride the ship pointing or with arms crossed.) Army deaths will see the ships exploding. Retreats will see the escort ships being left behind while the main one warps away to safety. Wounded armies will have hull breaches and plasma fires. I don't think I have to talk about ground units. Basically Total War: Warhammer with guns. Maybe add a cover feature like in the original Dawn of War. But definitely have the ability to build fortifications for the Imperial Guard. My Kriegsmen NEED their trenches. If you feel like my idea is sound, share it. I'm just a small man with a little voice. You're the one with the following. I've thought about this a ton since the original Total War: Warhammer was announced.

[@paxluporum4447]

CA better be willing to drop the QA department some extra dough... and I don't mean mandatory pizza parties.

[@reallylionbastard]

They'll need to launch and employee of the month scheme too 😂

[@Fenris777]

Just like Star Wars: Empire at Wars. "Siege" is in the space against defending plattforms/fleets and then landing and play the land battles on the Planet. The planet can be divided into some provinces. One settled from the defender, one as a field camp from the attacker. And then neutral land where you can dig in.

[@Mokronable]

Just make Dawn of War 1 Dark Crusade/Soulstorm Campaigns but much larger spanning across several systems of a sector in space and add in fleet combat. That'll be awesome.

[@Ares42]

If they make it I'd bet it's basically gonna a Stellaris + Dawn of War mash-up. It'll be a Stellaris-like space map and then you travel from planet to planet and do battles in the wilderness on the ground like Dawn of War. I think the conlcusion that fighting for planets like this would mean all siege battles is completely wrong, it would rather be the opposite, no siege battles at all. The biggest problem with this implementation is that a single battle to fight for the control of a planet would need to be scaled up quite drastically to make sense. Although I think that's gonna be a problem with any interpretation of 40k for Total War.

[@Phoenix-sc6di]

I am very worried about CAs ability to deliver an engine that can handle the intricacies of Space and Gun/Semi-Squad-based combat. And god help us if they stick with the engine and just minimally expand it. That would be a death sentence

[@monkeybot4088]

Completely agree

[@Destyvirago]

Agree, for a WH40K game to work, they will need a new engine and make changes from the normal total war play style. For a WH40K game I want buildings that can be entered and used to fire from. The buildings should have dynamic damage models so as the fight rages they gradually turn into ruins. I want deformable terrain so that big shells make craters that troops can take cover in. I want to be able to make bunkers, trenches and fortifications. Much of this has already been done befor in "Men of War" from 2009. We should expect more now.

[@BittermanAndy]

New engine required, for sure.

[@midshipman8654]

not even sure how the battles would even work. Total war has always done linear formation warfare, and never really more modern squad based supression and cover warfare, which seems like a large systemic departure. The furthest they webt was fall of the samurai, which was still linear.

[@spartancj1]

I think CA is not up too the task.

[@Axeallot]

I think you were thinking of Shogun 2 where you have to build the ships and your troops board it. Unlike shogun 2, 40k ships will be more useful as it can provide orbital bombardment or maybe even vanguard deployment for space marines

[@Wanderer-nw2so]

Honestly, the way I would have this done is use Star Wars Empire at war system for space battles, and how to get from place to place and use company of heroes RTS system for the ground combat

[@parttimehero8640]

Since Waarhammer was separated into three games and many dlc's I think the initial released factions will be crucial. I think the yes u build fleets but they auto resolve would be a compromise

[@somebody4399]

Another possibility would be Webwayportals on the Planets like in Soulstorm

[@mindsablaze221]

Dawn of War Dark Crusade had all the races fight on one planet

[@redjacc7581]

your reasons is why they WONT make TW Warhammer 40k.

[@BittermanAndy]

You think GW don't like money now? Because money is fifty million or so reasons why they will.

[@limbo8497]

The game itself would probably be absolutely massive. Honestly, I dont think it could be done. Or at least not done in a way that will make everyone happy.

[@monkeybot4088]

I hate to say I agree I think this gane is way to ambitious

[@redjacc7581]

one planet is how they did it in Dawn of War, lets hope its a proper star map.

[@sjbonadonna]

Not planets but galaxies, after traveling to them, then there are solar systems with multiple planets. Develop technology to get there or use the warp and risk corruption or possible invasion from chaos. Epic space battles in the inbetweens, add boots on the ground options by completing boarding missions, infiltrations, or special events. Start the whole campaign with just sorting own your homeworld and solar system and developing and finding the technology to build your faction to explore and invade before getting invaded. And give modders all the tools they need to make it a better game.

[@eckotech787]

i mean the 40k galaxy is big, so 10 times bigger should be possible. If u imagine the accomplishment with warhammer, a 40k version should be there biggest task. I rly hope that games get´s good. I started painted minis because of that. Cheers

[@patricksheehan43]

While I agree with the “wants”, as all of that would be really cool, I also agree that it would not be a total war game. You don’t want total war 40k, you want a warhammer 40k grand strategy game, something kind of like planetary annihilation but bigger. So yes, I hope one day that game will exist, but we are barking up the wrong tree for that. As for total war goes, they could still totally do a 40k game without any of that stuff. It’s not like every other warhammer 40k game out there has had all of the things mentioned in this video. Even one of the most successful titles for warhammer 40k, the dawn of war games, didn’t have multiple planets or space battles, it just had maps. For total war, they could just have it be one large map where all of the factions do indeed exist and fight for supremacy just like in other total war titles. If they wanted to have some degree of planetary conquest, they could simply add different game modes on different maps labeled as different planets, or make it so there are game mechanics where you travel to different planets but it’s more like how the sea lanes work in warhammer 3 where you wait a couple turns and pop out the other side. I know people want all of these things, multiple planets, space travel and space combat, multilayered galactic strategy gameplay, but none of those things are required for them to make a great 40k total war game. It’s a big want, but it’s not a need.

[@horatiobumbleton-smythe9427]

so ur saying CA needs to turn TW into a 4x game. The world map is the galaxy map with regions of space for fleet battles and planets with multiple regions for land armies. It doesn't really sound cutting edge but i would love it/ but u couldn't do titans and space marines in the same battle. Only a watered down WH 40k would work

[@monkeybot4088]

I think it will be watered down tbh. I can't see a true representation happening

[@mp44christos]

40k tw is at least 4 years away. So instead we should talk about ww1 tw which will share most of its mechanics and style with 40k.

[@vip878]

If they really do this, it might be the game that sinks CA for good, but knowing that a huge amount of players will be interested in the project, if they are even thinking of starting it, they will surely not pull any pharaoh low budget pranks. Besides, rumors say they are developing a ww1 game, maybe that will be the test for a shooting based total war game, maybe it will be 40k. In my opinion however, the most important decisions will be made regarding the campaign map, if they nail that, the game will be good, battles can be fixed over time if they don't work properly

[@frakfriki]

they need to give the game boarding battels, and maybe giving 3 tears of "area" now we have a province that is made out of regions, in the new sistem I say me should have like 1 to 3 planets that would be the regions of the game then a star system is a province and a grup of star systems would be a sector, for example you could have Holly Terra, Mars and Titan as all the planets of the solar system, and a coupple of more star sistem would be the center of the emperium

[@akumaking1]

Were you inspired by the video by Cody Bonds? 😊

[@monkeybot4088]

Never watched it

[@akumaking1]

@@monkeybot4088 give it a watch sometime

[@winchelseabeach4863]

Ngl, people thinking there will be a total war warhammer 40k will actually just never happen. Like, not even in a “it will be bad” way. In a literal it will never reach development way. I don’t know how people think this will ever work.

[@ragnarokivae6136]

And I don't get why people say it wouldn't work. Milkandcookiestw made an entire series where he explained how it could work and it would perfectly.

[@Fonzo125]

Don't think Total War 40k will ever happen, as the 40k setting woudn't work within the confines of total war. It would be fun to see, but I feel they would have to change up the total war formula too much for this to be realistic.

[@BittermanAndy]

Everyone said that about magic and monsters in fantasy.

[@Fonzo125]

@@BittermanAndy Yes, but they managed to implement them witout changing the total war formula. Although it probably is possible to make a 40k Total War, I have a feeling that they either have to change up the formula so much that it no longer, or barely, resembles a Total War game, alienating a lot of their fanbase. Or they keep the total war formula but get a "halfassed" depiction of 40k. I may absolutely be wrong, but thats what I feel about it currently. It will be interesting to see though, and if they are going for a 40k Total War, I hope I'm wrong.

[@BittermanAndy]

@@Fonzo125I have good faith in the ability of games developers to find creative solutions to those problems across the course of years of full-time professional development, in ways that might not occur to you or me in the few minutes - perhaps as much as hours - we spend thinking about it. With CA in particular that faith can waver sometimes 🙄but I don't think it's impossible.

[@alexshaw4182]

Personally, I don't think it'll be a Dawn of War game, it'll be a TW game. Can't wait for Death Guard.

[@monkeybot4088]

No it will be Total war just so much bigger then it has ever been before

[@alexshaw4182]

@@monkeybot4088 You could say that about Empire TW when that came out. As long as it's a strategic map mixed with RTS it's a TW game.

[@EM-vw7im]

Perhaps the answer is to just not do a 40k total war game, it would just have to be to large with too many facets to be feasible. And if its not large enough, it would just piss people off. Basically hope that some other rts/grand strategy developee picks it up. I just dont think 40k total is doable of feasible in total war style.

[@mushroom3371]

I hope they will add Nightlords.

[@floflo1645]

just regular battles would already need a big overhaul for CA because of the shooting, vehicles, maybe cover. Do we really think we are gonna have space battles ? Personnaly I think it is seems to be asking too much of CA Also, wouldn't GW prefer to keep space battles and regular battles as different IP that they can sell in different games ? that is just the kind of shit they usually do

[@monkeybot4088]

I don't think we will get space battles. Land battles won't be too different to warhammer fantasy in some ways. We already have tanks, guns, and shooting titins. Just make them shoot faster and with a reskin, and thats it's. I can imagine the space marines will be kislev hybrid units on steroids.

[@sigurdjensen195]

I completely and utterly disagree. You don't need the big massive scale for it to be 40k. On the tabletop you only field 2000 points worth of units after all. Just have one planet... Dawn of War is still the most beloved 40k game to many, and the least liked of the original series is Soulstorm, which had multiple planets... There's nothing wrong with limiting it to one planet.

[@dust921]

RTS/FPS hybrids r the new hotness check out ( mount & blade BL ) or ( silica ) or ( outpost infinity siege ) its more fun to be on ground floor with your troops :),

[@monkeybot4088]

As much as I agree with you I don't think that will happen for a toyal war game.

[@dust921]

@@monkeybot4088 im a modr all make it happen

[@dust921]

@@monkeybot4088 if i think the game is worth my time all make it happen im a modr

[@i_dont_have_a_name]

make like dawn of war dont care if they are in only one planet is game

[@hagiaiit]

unless they make a GALAXY whit HUNDREDS of planets to play on it will fail from the start.. and they need space battles... to be honest.. i dont really see CA as a company that should even do 40k.... id rather 40k go to Eugene games as they know How to make big ass battles

[@PaperiLiidokki]

Kronus comes to mind