TotK: What Happened?

[@BanditGames]

If you want to help King Robert rebuild his castle in style, go to strms.net/royal_match_banditgames to download Royal Match for free!

[@Cliffordlonghead]

😮😅

[@Cliffordlonghead]

First 😊

[@Cliffordlonghead]

Awesome video

[@nickcampbell6387]

​@Cliffordlonghead how do you know it's only been out 45 seconds?😂

[@Cliffordlonghead]

​@Stopnickcampbell6387

[@RiskyStrats]

Nice shot. I'm surprised how little people talk about the fact that the "barbaric zonai tribe" mentioned in botw doesn't fit at all with what we see of the tribe in totk. At no point does it look like the barbarian armor could actually be zonai. So even the zonai are inconsistent with botw.

[@blackchickiedee7]

💯 Exactly At first the Zonai were suppose to be this barbaric tribe that settled in the Faron region. But now all of a sudden they came from the sky were technology savvy oh and worshipped dragons.... Now I see why people say TotK is fanfiction. I mean, if Nintendo doesn't want to focus on the time-line sure whatever but your stories still need to be consistent and organized. TotK feels like the Zelda team only cared about their minecraft mechanics and didn't bother with anything else. For six years mind you and they were still wonky. And when asked in interviews hey where's the Zelda stuff in this Zelda game? Aonuma and Fujibaiyashi basically said 'ehh stop being nostalgia blind you're making us be restricted to the time-line' like, huh? 😅

[@GH0STS_D1E]

i honestly just assumed that the in game explanation was that the people who came up with the name for the set didn’t know what zonai were or how they acted but knew they existed either alongside or before the lomei tribe which could explain why some places that seem like zonai are said to be lomei and the other way around

[@8BitPancakes]

It makes me wonder if the Zonai were more barbaric before meeting the Hylians, as sure, they were super tech savvy, but even Rauru himself had an affinity for hunting and the like instead of having his servants do it for him. It could even be Zonai-era barbaric Hylian armor, as Hylians were even much more barbaric and tribal then.

[@abisnail4888]

@@8BitPancakesYeah I thought the barbarian armour was just really old Zonai clothes. The Zonai shrines and sky ruins look yellow white but the faron ruins and ones near the Korok forest are darker. My theory was they lived on the ground before eventually moving to the sky islands with their machines or their magic.

[@IronMan-ds5bi]

Demon King?.....Secret Stone?

[@javiervasquez625]

Same villain?.....Triforce?

[@H.N.I.C_Hennessy]

Secret stone? demon king?

[@Altzar2011]

Psycho Mantis??

[@thechampion2430]

Secret King? Demon stone?

[@zeusp6855]

Stone king? Secret Demon?

[@AnicomicQueen]

OH MY GOSH. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH I WOULD HAVE PAID FOR UNDERWATER EXPLORATION TO COME BACK. I WAS EXPECTING IT IN TOTK. If I could turn back time. If I could find a way. I would gladly trade half of the depths to have underwater areas. 🤧

[@janeenschultz8502]

Underwater was one of my favorite sections of Twilight Princess.

[@christianmino3753]

Idk why anyone WANTS to swim and go underwater in a video game. Those are some of the most annoying parts of almost any game. I want to play Zelda and not swim around or whatever but hey, to each their own, that's why open world games are cool. They have something for everyone.

[@mkjjoe]

@@christianmino3753 Yes it historically has been very tedious to both develop and play, but I assume anyone expecting it kinda want to tap into the more interesting side of discovering an underwater world, ruins but maybe an active distant people for once, and interesting means to move around. It can remain only part of the world to explore, just for good variety.

[@AnicomicQueen]

@@christianmino3753 I think it would be annoying if all of the game was underwater, but I enjoy the anxiety that comes with having to worry about replenishing my air like in Super Mario 64, Skyward Sword, and Assassin's Creed Odyssey. Just an option would have been nice. Especially since there have been underwater portions in many of the previous 3D Zelda games. 😅

[@whatgsaid]

I would have loved an underground temple in the Depths (fire), underwater temple (water), ground-level temple (lightning), and sky temple (wind)- but yeah, maybe it would have been too much on the hardware? It’s fine, that’s fine 🥲

[@TeedyASMR]

worst part for me was how unbelievably unrewarding the entire game is. to a point where i don't even open chests sometimes, and the ones i do, i often leave it if it's a weapon/shield. for a zelda game, that's incredibly off base. 1 opal in a chest (imagine getting rupees & treasure maps. then ore once you've already collected an enemies camp chests) and looting some crates for taking out an enemy platform, shitty broken weapons, monster parts which you quickly have too much of, an occasional free meal that i don't need, thousands of brightbloom seeds that i can't pick up anymore bc they're maxxed out, no matter where you're exploring or what task is completed, the payoff feels like...😐 thats it?? it's like they said hey let's make this like real life where you work hard just to be rewarded with more work and you never really get anything/anywhere that feels fulfilling or satisfying :D just grind til you die

[@mjesus850]

people love shitting on some of the older games for giving rupees in chests, even though they get used most of the time. but finding the same weapons that break in two seconds or gems youll never use is somehow so invigorating to these people. this game is for simpletons plain and simple

[@leighte2426]

Totk to me just feels like a well made playground testing game. Like Garry’s mod or something. That uses the botw map as a base and had have some forced story to make it passible. You can so tell it started out as a dlc. That had ambitious gameplay ideas but were too complicated for a budget of a dlc.

[@countryboyred]

I agree. It feels like Nintendo had a lot of great ideas for dlc but then realized they had way too much content to release only as dlc. So they made a new game instead. Breath of the wild 1.5

[@tumultuousv]

​@@countryboyredbotw sequel

[@ryanb4940]

@@countryboyredthat’s literally what it is… it was an idea for DLC but grew too big and was made a sequel…. But god I wish they made a brand new map. I hate so much it’s the same damn map. Wtf Nintendo??

[@mattdekker5693]

Thats funny cause to me botw felt like a tech demo for a zelda map and grass physics engine and totk felt like a game that was finished. I dunno how people got it reversed.

[@RealJeffTidwell]

@@mattdekker5693 Right. BOTW is more fleshed out than I remembered, upon deeper inspection, but TOTK is on another level. My mind turns off the second I see “DLC” in reference to it, just as (sadly for them) many people’s minds turned off when they saw that they’d be using the same base Hyrule.

[@theo3728]

1:00:22 You took words out of my mouth. Words cannot describe how disappointed I felt. The first time I saw this scene, I got goosebumps and a huge smile on my face. When Ganondorf said their names and then said “Rauru placed his faith in you”, I went CRAZY, only to minutes later discover that I had been deluded. While it was one of the best intros of the franchise for me, it was also one of the biggest disappointments... I really expected Ganondorf was talking about the timeline and the previous games.

[@RhythmGrizz]

Yeah... it was just another insular, isolated, self-contained story. Just with zonai this time which... just wasn't what I wanted

[@carlosamgalaxy]

How badass would be Ganondorf talking about Rauru from OOT! And they could easily adapt the same TOTK story with minor changes and removing those Alien Zonais..

[@JGHMusic]

Well it’s an alternate timeline, you can’t criticize a game for that reason. Idk what you expected here

[@theo3728]

​@@JGHMusic All previous Ganondorf were the same as in Ocarina of Time, but he never mentioned the ancient heroes and princesses he fought against. When ToTK was announced, no one imagined that this Ganondorf had no connection with the others. So yes, i can criticize about the illusion that Nintendo created when they made ToTK's Ganondorf talk about Rauru (literally a character from Ocarina of Time), Zelda, Link and the master sword.

[@coloradodafronteira]

They knew exactly what they were doing when they did this specific line. Which surprises me that they didn't capitalize on it.

[@BanditGames]

Hey guys! I’ll be hosting a live discussion on the game this weekend featuring a ton of other creators… stay tuned!!

[@Cliffordlonghead]

Hi

[@LinktheCommunistWaifu]

I can't wait

[@SparksOpus]

Well dang, looking forward to that :)

[@_zyphis_2281]

If you wanna make a VOD of all the relevent discussion, that would be really helpful!!

[@Night_Quest]

What time and day???? I MUST IMMERSE MYSELF IN THE HATE

[@ryrynoel]

You’ve put to words exactly what I was feeling! Zelda’s lore is at the heart of why the series is so cherished - to just negate all of that with some sort of ancient aliens angle makes it feel empty and lacking the special sauce all the previous games had. Elder Scrolls is my other favorite game series, and they manage to weave/massage conflicting lore across games, and it actually adds to the intrigue and theory crafting. Beautiful and well-made games are always the goal, but if they lack heart and story I’m out.

[@mattdekker5693]

I agree thats its extremely strange that a game thats seemingly supposed to be a direct sequel had completely retconned itself but the reason This Guy is complaining about it is because it literally ruined his channel.

[@FranciscoEsquivel-z5c]

What zelda needs is Tingle

[@minecraftbros6398]

A 2 and a half hour vid from bandit, its a good day

[@drmarysomers]

Nice shot, homie. We share similar sentiments, so don't feel too lonely out there. I think it's healthy and a good thing to be critical of our favourite franchises. I'm definitely looking forward to how your channel evolves into something you really love.

[@LinktheCommunistWaifu]

I love how every one in this comment section is like, "Wait, I just realized that this is a compilation"

[@tangerineturtles9551]

Yeah I was prepared to listen to more Zelda ranting😖

[@nickcampbell6387]

The one thing that no one seems to be talking about is the actual "lack" of weapons in totk, and the weird look that the fuses force on you. Botw had some awesome looking weapons that were just absent, the lightning spear, the rock smasher, edge of duality ect, where are they? Fusing could've been alot better if they allowed you to to keep the look of pristine weapons by fusing a twin of that weapon and combining their power, or fusing something like a knights claymore with a broadsword to make a one handed version of the knights claymore ect. The nerfed and ugglified the weapons to force fusing on you.

[@chaineryt9211]

Exactly what I was thinking too! The fused weapons always never look passable as real weapons, that’s why I only carry the master sword and switch to other weapons when I’m fighting because the master sword looks great!

[@nickcampbell6387]

@@chaineryt9211 right? I mean the lynel horns were fine and consistently good but all the horns that actually looked good, green and blue lizalfos horns, elemental lizalfos horns, most of the constuct horns were basically useless mid to late game, or so rare it wasn't worth looking for them.

[@feidamack2006]

Yeah, I remember stockpiling the Lyzalfos blade and scythe horns because I thought they looked the coolest when fused.

[@cpcollignon]

I'm with you. I was hoping for so much that was left out. And it wasn't just the cut scenes that were copy and paste. The whole thing was dang near a reskin of Breath.

[@created3612]

That’s what I’m sayin. Skies and depths were so underwhelming. I thought they’d also change combat too and give Link some new moves - at least fix that OP flurry rush or the eating on the menus. Not to mention the game is also wayyy too open, I don’t like that everything can be cheesed or skipped. It needed more linearity.

[@blackdust7353]

​@@created3612 I still can't believe that this whole combat system was around 10+ years in development and we only have 3 weapon categories for Link in both games, with no interesting movesets or anything. What baffles me the most is how flurry rush can be initiated while being completly off from the attack timing it should activate

[@created3612]

@@blackdust7353 What’s crazy is that Age of Calamity actually fixed the issue and made it so flurry rush was consistent and only for really close calls. So this broken design was intentional if they kept it in TotK. It’s so easy to pull off, an enemy will be frame 1 swing animation and Link can FS it.

[@blackdust7353]

@@created3612 I don't remember AoC that much tbh, but i actually was thinking about playing it again in a few weeks, so i can't agree or disagree with that. I only know that it felt better there. Coming back to Botw/Totk tho, we instead get a flurry rush whenever we do anything near a damaging hitbox and even that isn't always the case. How many times i jumped over a Lynels 3 hit combo in both games, only for it to not activate and be hit instead, cause Lynels swing faster than Link does backflips, is not even funny. Also, can we talk about how they let the sheikah tech completly vanish without a trace? If they kept it in, they would have had even more possiblities for enemy variety. Let me give you 2 i came up with myself. 1: Gloom Guardians. Guardian wracks that are completly controlled by gloom hands. The hands become the legs of the guardian, being able to do melee attacks and being able to walk on walls and ceilings. It's also able to protect it's eye with a gloom hand, so stunning it with bow and arrow all the time will not work. 2: Blight remnants. After the Blights and Calamity Ganon were defeated, different parts of there remains were scattered throughout Hyrule. With Ganondorf reawakening, they also awaken and use different sheikah parts to reassamble themselves, becoming gloom/guardian knight enemies with their respectives blights element. Both of which being miniboss enemies like Lynels

[@created3612]

@@blackdust7353 those are really cool enemy concepts. For me, they marketed the skies so heavily so I thought there would be different environments and towns and people in the skies. Along with that, I’d had thought wed get flying enemies too that we would battle in the skies as we’re flying or something, but the only flying enemy we got was the Aerocuda which you can one-shot with a damn pebble. They added the dragon which was cool but there’s like 4 of them or so and they’re in isolated arenas, they don’t actually traverse the skies or pose any threat to your travels up there. They made a huge miss on that aspect.

[@CyrusMoonside]

What I wish the creators would have said was that the reason this Hyrule did not fit into the timelines is because this is an alternate universe Hyrule (like Lowrule, Termina, The Golden Land ect.). My personal theory on this is, this is an alternate Hyrule that I call “The Zonai Hyrule” and the Hyrule from the previous titles with the split timeline is the “Prime Hyrule.” Each has their own history, creation myths, laws of nature, etc. The “Zonai Universe” is clearly more "sci fi" technologically advanced while the “Prime Hyrule” is more mystical and magic dependent.

[@azzy-551]

please god no. The multiverse is such an uninteresting concept and writing crutch.

[@CyrusMoonside]

@therealgirl3295 true but knowing them in 5 to 10 years they'll do another recon or find a way to explain things to pretend they did care about the plot. They did it before with this series. lol

[@randomduck8679]

@@azzy-551 There's already a multiverse with the downfall timeline.

[@lmnt66]

TotK feels like they focussed exclusively on evolving the sandbox, and everything else kind of fell by the wayside: Meaningful exploration, complex and tighter designed puzzles, continuity in its story and lore with BotW… It all creates such a huge disconnect with the game for me, I still can‘t appreciate it for what it is.

[@feidamack2006]

Pretty much this, although I think dungeon theming and the sections preceding the dungeons were pretty great too.

[@lmnt66]

@@feidamack2006 yeah, the ascent to the Wind Temple was the highlight of the game for me. Amazing atmosphere and soundtrack.

[@AnicomicQueen]

I'm actually hopeful for the next Zelda project now that they are apparently dropping everything they have done with BoTW and ToTK. I'd love to be gate kept by not having certain items again and not being able to climb walls. I was so excited for the ice walls as obstacles but they weren't as prevalent as I thought they'd be from tutorial island.

[@mkjjoe]

Watch out I wouldn't build hope on "dropping everything". They mentioned a different experience but that can mean anything, and the basics of the formula are likely to stick around. What you want is very possible though.

[@AnicomicQueen]

@@mkjjoe Oh for sure. I'm old lol so every game has been a new experience. I try to be neutral on expectations so I'm not really disappointed 🤙

[@TheRealNintendoKid]

lol, they're done with that version of Hyrule, not the open world idea. They're not gonna do the stale old Ocarina formula again.

[@randomduck8679]

​@@TheRealNintendoKid By your logic, Mario Wonder shouldn't have been made. Formulas become stale when they aren't being used well and Nintendo is very guilty of playing it safe. Just put Link somewhere that isn't Hyrule, stop sticking so close to ALttP lore/references and don't forcefully guide players down a path. That should be enough to make a new traditional Zelda. I'm thinking 2D Zelda could do this while 3D games continue with the open air style. TotK is the most derivative Zelda game and Nintendo is setting themselves up to repeat the same mistakes.

[@jjcreeper7113]

This is exactly what I needed right now. Thank you man Edit: Nevermind it’s just a compilation

[@Elti979]

Oh

[@CooldownCentral]

i felt the same way LOL

[@Hayden-qj1lo]

A two and a half hour long video from one of my favorite KZbinrs about one of my favorite subjects (opinions about tears of the kingdom) and it’s a dead day at work with little more than nothing to do. Lets FREAKING GOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[@highdefinition450]

shame it's videos i've already seen tho lol

[@GiseleSaur444]

I just felt like there was too much going on at once. I wasn’t addicted to it like I was BOTW

[@ZeldasMask]

OMFG WE HAVE BEEN BLESSED 2 hours!!!!! Edit: oh it’s a compilation 😅 still I wanna say I love how you give us your TRUE and HONEST opinions on the game instead of some KZbinrs / Twitter people who review stuff so sickly sweet like you have to love it 100 or you’re a hater

[@NuiYabuko]

And a true and honest opinion can't just be liking something? Are people so jaded that only negative criticism, whether valid or not, is the only right opinion to have?

[@ZeldasMask]

@@NuiYabukoI’m not saying 100% negative either I’m saying to fairly critique it and hear all sides 🙄

[@kun6497]

@@NuiYabuko It surely can be. While oddly some people are not taking critiques very well. Weird isn't it.

[@notanysortofwaterfowl8216]

My favorite Zelda game is Link's Awakening (any of the three versions, since each one has something special to it for me)! I still remember accidentally stumbling across the bug in the original version that moves Link to the edge of the next 'page' of the map when opening the map at the edge of the current screen, and how it cost me that attempt at the pothole maze, and how I spent the next few years thinking there was just a spot in the maze that would jump you to outside the fence if you weren't careful. Somehow, that weird misunderstanding didn't hurt my opinion of the game at all, even if it would be a while before I got back to the game after that.

[@Blumoon_vii]

Hate that game

[@tumultuousv]

​@@Blumoon_vii cry

[@adrianveidt8056]

Three versions? Original, remake and...?

[@moonshade9860]

The original, the dx, the remake versions

[@thiagograhl3614]

1:55:40 My favorite Zelda Game is Twilight Princess forever. Always loved it and I think it has one of the best stories as well as side stories from the franchise. Majoras Mask is the next, soooo good!

[@jackunvailable]

In the next Zelda game, I really do hope we have a smaller map. It may seem counter-intuitive, but most if not all of this game's problems stem from wanting a large overworld. Weapon durability, poor enemy scaling, copy-paste enemies and missions, repetitive main quests, removing heart pieces, etc. It's a serious issue of quality over quantity that it feels like almost nobody is addressing. I think a smaller game where they could focus on the little details and making everything more unique would do wonders for the franchise. I think Link also needs more of a set backstory. Nothing crazy, but literally anything to tie him to the world he's in would help. When you think about old Zelda games, places like Outset Island and Skyloft are comfortable places you feel you can escape to, and the Wild games don't quite have a replacement. Sure, there's Terry Town, Lookout Landing, the houses, etc. but none of them feel like home enough, if you catch my drift. As for overall lore, some of the motifs of the previous games really need to return. Specifically the Triforce. The reason I love Zelda so much is because each game feels so different, only tied together by story motifs and characters. But the Wild games opted to throw out most preestablished motifs in favor of new stuff. I understand it may feel repetitive to Nintendo to reuse the same story assets and plot devices over and over... but it's really not? I don't care if the games are directly connected through a timeline or multiverse theory, the series just needs to have enough source material to call it a series-- with the removal of so many major story motifs, it's really drifting away from that title.

[@Ray-dl5mp]

I kinda agree. But I think part of the reason some of us think a smaller map would be better is because there are such limited settlements in last couple games. Hopefully that was more because of the limitations of the Switch hardware and not because Nintendo just loves tons of space. It kinda works because BOTW does have a purity to the exploration. But next time I would prefer same size or a little smaller with bigger settlements that feel substantial. The fact that TOTK didn’t really change that much from BOTW I’m guessing was disappointing for many. I also like your point about no real home base feeling for Link in last couple games. They did give you a chance to have that feeling, but yea it’s not the same as Skyloft for example. I could see the next game working really well with about the same size map of BOTW but a lot of the game is underwater too. Seems like a lot of fans are ready for interesting underwater exploration. And I can’t believe they didn’t add the Triforce to TOTK. Very strange decision imo and made it feel less important.

[@OsnosisBones]

Technically, Link does have an established backstory and 'home' in BotW and by extension TotK, the issue is that it's kinda just pushed to the wayside and completely missable information outside of some flavor text in large part because Link is a straight-up amnesiac. By all rights, the Link in that game spent almost all of his life prior to his training as a knight raised in Zora's Domain, but not only does none of the Zora culture reflect in Link's past, design, or interactions, but since his lack of memory gives him nothing grounding him to the world Zora's domain is as much of a non-location for the most part as the others so there's nothing really making it feel like home outside of maybe the fact unlike everywhere else most the people there are still old enough to know him. I also agree that it's a huge missed opportunity to basically outright scrap any definitive reference to past lore or motifs beyond their most base implications that are missed if you dont have past experience with the series. Basically completely gutting the fact the Triforce exists as more than a golden power held by the royal family within them, as well as making no nod at all to the fact Hylia is only a lesser deity answering to 3 greater creators who up to now were either name dropped in some way or referred to as the three goddesses or golden goddesses feels really weird. It also basically throws out a common theme which was the question of the morality of these three and why they did certain things or are so detested by specific individuals. Even Skyward Sword brought to question why the three made certain choices and even had Zelda feel self-hate because she felt as though Hylia and by technical extension herself made choices that even for the greater good are cruel and morally wrong. All that's kinda thrown out the window now, with the series lore feeling even more black and white than before rather than having some hinted shades of grey.

[@Gabronthe]

1:07:45 "Somehow it all dissapepared and no one knows why' to me this is the same as "Somehow Palpatined Returned."

[@derperpines]

“See, now I’m ranting-” No, everything you’ve said is pretty valid and on point. Validates my own feelings about TorK’s life and story overall.

[@joeycoe85]

Nintendo DOES NOT CARE ABOUT STORY. That’s really what all this boils down to. And mostly, this is a direct result of SHIGERU MIYAMOTO’S influence. He may not have a direct hand in Nintendo releases anymore, but his stamp of approval is required for any release. He needs to retire. Not a popular opinion, but it’s hard to justify his continued employment, because his philosophy is outdated at this point.

[@joeycoe85]

I make the same argument about TODD HOWARD at BGS. Their tech is outdated, and Starfield’s failure reflects that. It’s the same problem: their influence is having a negative impact on development.

[@isaac11gain]

6 years of development for a half baked lazy ass story

[@jackunvailable]

While I'd personally prefer a linear Zelda game, I think a structure like open-zone would work really well for the series. Throw Link into an area with a few key items, a few side quests, and a few dungeons, and once he's beaten a dungeon or two, he can leave to the next area. It's not as free as BoTW and ToTK are, however I feel like "true freedom" isn't what the franchise needs anyways. A game can feel open and expansive without being open and expansive. Giving the player options of companions, key items, story choices, what dungeons to do, etc. could help the game feel open-ended while saving on development time (and hopefully allowing everything to feel somewhat cohesive to boot).

[@Ray-dl5mp]

Yes that sounds like a 2d kinda game where it feels pretty open but also a little restrictive. I like this concept overall. I also think they could keep the super open concept if they can find a way to tell a story as you’re playing the game and make it exciting to finish a dungeon in how it gives you a fun item or weapon. But I agree that’s easier to do if you’re working through the dungeons in order. Maybe that’s the answer. Have the best of both worlds. The next game can still be open but you must complete the dungeons in order or at least have a super dungeon near the end of the game where you need all the abilities or weapons from the earlier dungeons.

[@tarnw3301]

In Majora's Mask, you could go and grab the temple's item, unlock the rest of the areas, and if you wanted you could finish the bosses any way you pleased. In OoT, little Link visited almost all the regions and just needed key items to "unlock" them. And people have been able to sort of finish the randomizer version where items come at random. In BoTW, Gerudo fortress only has one way to solve. In ToTK, Link needs to gather all the magic powers before touching Hyrule. In Wind Waker, Link could travel all around the world and just needed to find key items to unlock the temples. Only Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess have restricted worlds which can't be touched unless you do a plot beat.

[@NuiYabuko]

​@@tarnw3301 And how do you get those key items if not for plot beats?

[@tarnw3301]

@@NuiYabuko randomizers players somehow manage to do it, unless they have really bad luck. For example, if you were to get the blue scale at the Deku Tree's forest, you practically have access to the Zora domain and Lord Jabu's belly. You can also have access to Death Mountain if you manage to get the Keaton Mask. Also, the game doesn't lock up inside the tutorial until you get the key item (paraglider), so, that really helps randomize simulators to let anyone explore the world in new ways.

[@B3arbear123]

I've agreed with all your points in your videos, I was scared I was the only one to feel this way for a long time 🙏

[@Misappropriation]

The video came out 27 minutes ago, im impressed with your watching ability!

[@Misappropriation]

Haha, just reached the part where i realized what this video is, my bad😅

[@omensoffate]

@@Misappropriationdumbass

[@B3arbear123]

@@Misappropriation ur good LMAO, I thought this was a new addition to the series at first too

[@jasonzervos]

It seems that I have similar problems with a lot of people regarding exploration, the Sky and the Depths but after months I have settled to some conclusions. (it's huge but couldn't write less) The Sky Islands where marketed like they would be the next big thing to explore with on-island footage coming only from the Great Sky Island (the only explorable). At the end, the Skies are one unchangeable, monotonous environment acting mainly as a traversal puzzle with you trying to go from a tower to a shrine or from a shrine to the green shrine-stone and back. And after you solve them they act as quick travel points to access places on surface. Nintendo underestimated the ultrahand creations limiting only Wings and Hot Air Balloons. But by using cheap, long lasting builds like hover-bike, upgrading your battery, doing the Recall trick, using Zonai charges or cooking mid-air you can bypass EVERY obstacle in the Sky. Something that indicates the puzzle-soling nature of the Skies, away from exploration, are the collectable items. Only 2 types of flora and 4 types of fauna are exclusive to the Sky with the total 13 and 12 respectively found in general. Even chests are mostly either the end goal or locked behind a puzzle. The Depths on the other hand initially are all about traversing the hostile darkness but the scenery gets boring quickly with the sameness of the environment and the unvarying pace of gameplay. After that, they have three purposes: combat, Crystallized Charges, Zonaites, legacy Armor. All in strictly defined places. Soldier ghosts with strong weapons, monster camps (only 7 types I think), Lynels, colosseums, Yiga basses (only 6 types), Master Kohga arenas (the abandoned mines), Frox areas/arenas, Hinoxes, Taluses, Flux Constractors arenas, one King Gleeok arena and main-story bosses arenas are for those three purposes and all in clearly defined areas. The Abandoned Mines are for Crystallized Charges, Zonaites and Armor. Aside those, there is almost NOTHING in between. Most of the map is empty space. Not the BOTW or TOTK surface-map "nothing" that is full of small things to do. Again, that's indicated by the collectables. 3 mushrooms (1 non exclusive), 1 insect, 1 "animal" (stal horse witch is not exclusive) and poes. Chests are tide to combat or abandoned mines with few exceptions. That's all about the Depths. Death Mountain is the only unique place. It's also the only part with chests that are not tied to combat or abandoned mines but on exploration instead. So, to recap: -Depths are for upgrading your battery, finding powerful weapons and Zonaites for autobuild, helping with Sky puzzles and Surface exploration. -Skies are for big elaborate traversal puzzles and to have access everywhere in the Surface. -And finally, the Surface itself. With 100 caves, 58 wells (some just undercover Chasms), diverce flora (41 out of 45) and fauna (87 out of 92), divers bioms and environment, rivers and lakes, changing weather, chests, Korok puzzles, Adisson signs, settlements, NPCs, many many points of interest, almost every main quests and side adventures/quest, more evenly distributed enemies and countless enemy camps variations (we even have pirate ships!). The game is still the Surface. Sky and Depths are designed as quick breaks from your on-Surface gameplay. I WISH they were way more than they ended up being… And I wish Zonai theme would be more upfront and flashed out like Sheikah was in BOTW… But unfortunately that's the case. For me, the Surface has changed enough to the point that after more than 1.100 hours, 5 playthroughs and hundreds upon hundreds of videos on BOTW is still making me want to explore everything finding new things every time.

[@Ryyouu]

The depths became kind of a chore after a while for sure. But the light roots all being in the same place as the shrines on the surface was soooo nice. I was able to 100% all shrines without running around aimlessly on the surface or having to look up locations. I LOVED that

[@trixxy9566]

​@@Ryyouuthe depths being a mirrored hyrule is the best part abt the depth

[@RealJeffTidwell]

Yes! The Depths and The Sky are separate tracks to mix up the gameplay loops periodically throughout the game. The Surface is Track A. Well stated.

[@grindkagethefirst5975]

Hell yea Zelda content I can sit and watch for hours

[@MsRain49]

Not ALL of the Sheikah tech "disappeared". 😐

[@ZeldaLilly330]

I miss how there would be main console Zelda games that would get the prime attention and then portable Zelda games that were small, fun adventures that didn't require meeting any expectations, but still had enough love and care to be included with the main games. I would love to see a return to that; even if some of the smaller zelda games being released are remakes/ re-imaginings of an older game like they've done before. It's nice being able to have a Zelda game that doesn't have pressure attached to it.

[@mjesus850]

never will happen anymore, nintendo after getting sales of all the games combined in one entry will insure they never ever will go back. I remember when zelda was humble and sold 8m copies at most, honestly it prob kept them in check. now they will chase that 30m sale number every entry. they care about money now.

[@tumultuousv]

Y'all look goofy now

[@tumultuousv]

​@@mjesus850they've always cared about money. They're literally a business

[@SageKasuto]

As a game designer, constraints are actually a good thing. Their comments, coupled with recent products, make me question their education. Personally, I think they are designers second and business leaders first.

[@mkjjoe]

TOTK shows that constraints would benefit an open/linear balance, even in a game with 80% of open content, actual linear progression in the main quest and specific parts could absolutely create depth to the experience. However I'm not comfortable to call out individuals designing and making the game, and I've been extremely supportive of BOTW in its own setting. Yes BOTW didn't go for linear stuff, but at the very least it remained focused, everything worked towards that open setting which simply didn't please everyone but achieved that vision. In that context, the designers most certainly weren't lazy or idiots, they showed they could revisit core aspects of the series to build a new foundation. With TOTK I didn't see that vision, they reused the one from BOTW and hinted at ways to be more ambitious and refine it, but didn't fully deliver on anything in particular. Who knows exactly how it went, they wanted to capitalize on BOTW on the same console, but then there was a pandemic, and some scope bloat... Maybe they genuinely enjoyed the moment-to-moment for the simple fun things that they are (because the game still is fun, if we put aside anticipation coming from BOTW), and it's easy to require improvements in hindsight and to idealize a "perfect" game, but there is not a magical formula or a perfect pitch from one gamer on the internet to satisfy. I remain hopeful that they'll keep iterating, and moving to a new setting and console should help differentiate from the BOTW/TOTK arc.

[@SageKasuto]

I don't see them going anywhere most hard-core fans want to go until they get serious about story elements and stop short-changing their consumers.

[@jojomicheldu59]

Aonuma has now become one of those snoby auteur game directors who always think they're right. If he doesn't change his views he should honestly be demoted.

[@mkjjoe]

@@jojomicheldu59 We shouldn't take it to an extreme either, the guy still has his experience and as much as we could fear yes-men around such prestige, these teams at Nintendo are all about putting new things on the table. He commands the general idea but it's a bunch of people who make the stuff. About story importance it's not exactly his own limitation, other people like Miyamoto and Fujibayashi have been aligned for lose connections around core design. About linearity, taken literally his last statement sounded out-of-touch but I think people were quick to jump on it without much hindsight. He was still promoting TOTK which doubled down on BOTW to capitalize for better and worse, so of course he wouldn't already say "yeah that's kinda limiting let's move on". Sometimes like after TP and after SS he expressed regrets for what they couldn't do. Now TOTK was a much bigger success but I'm sure they're perfectly able to understand what people mean in their criticism. TOTK seems like a conclusion to an arc, I don't expect them to just blindly stick to it until it dies. At worst if it's by small steps, I don't think we'd benefit from just throwing one chief away to make an example, at the end of the day these are great games and a matter of preference.

[@SageKasuto]

@@mkjjoe Wow. Your comments are huge! You obviously have a lot to say. Have you considered making your own video?

[@sylvanstrength7520]

Will take me a few sessions but will watch this for sure!

[@Miskosunderlingsdescende-yn6oy]

I would of given up the whole depths to have: A. Underwater game play B. More sky islands, according to one of the devs they had so many ideas that the sky was over cluttered and they had to get rid of most of them, I want cluttered sky’s, that is what I was expecting, not the complete pile of crap that we got

[@ProjectionProjects2.7182]

I would too.

[@jackvannistelrooij4959]

I could literally listen to you rant for hours, mate. Especially if it's about something as relatable as this. I've been listening to this in parts while walking the dog, doing the groceries, household chores and even while in the shower. And I'm not even halfway through lol. I'll take a Zelda Bandit Rant every week lol. That aside, thank you for being so honest. I felt the EXACT same way about this game and seriously thought something was wrong with me. Also, Reddit definitely made me feel lonely because of it. Really liked that expression. Thanks again!

[@rtyuik7]

56:45(ish) - "its a Sequel, of Course its gonna be 90% the same" oh yeah? what about Majora's Mask? the Direct Sequel that, not only put you in an entirely NEW world with a LOT of new enemies (or at least spun the old assets into New Characters), but was also released in record time after OoT? TotK COULDVE been BotW's "Majora", but instead it was literally BotW-2...like a NewGame+ version... (and honestly, theres gotta be some sort of irony here, because i was flat-out Refusing to call the "unnamed sequel" by that term, while Nintendo was still cooking...but thats what it ended up Being)

[@nehmprogaming2307]

I dont know if I'm coping but I liked the game. It hurts me to see how it affected people negativelly. I do get the critics, and I try to see it with the positive. I tried to concentrate on the positive of the game because after finishing the game the first time amd seeing it with neutral eyes, I was so disappointed that I was gonna stop being a Zelda fan. But now after a few months, I managed to make peace with it and enjoy it

[@Ray-dl5mp]

Yes great thoughts. I finally finished the main story after watching so many Zelda videos. I basically stopped playing after completing the dungeons months ago and wasn’t that compelled to finish it. But I finally did as I think KZbin helped me get curious again. I spoiled a couple things for myself but I am so glad I finished the game. I think actually having low expectations because I took a big break from the game helped me appreciate the game more. I see why so many are dissapointed and I also wish like Bandit the story and dungeons were handled differently. But I don’t hate what they did either and the gameplay is really impressive and fun overall. I also think how they “improved” a lot of parts of BOTW mostly worked and they did a great job with the end of the game and how they handled the battle. Good improvements from BOTW for me. The game can be the most fun game ever if you’re in the mood to go with it. But if you wanted this game to blow you away and you just look at the art style and map you could be disappointed. Matters what you focus on. Nintendo is really great at gameplay and I think they mostly nailed that with TOTK. That’s why I do think the game will stand out years from now still in that sense. It’s going to be hard to beat this game from a gameplay perspective but I think if they listen to most of Bandit’s ideas, they could do it.

[@mjesus850]

@@Ray-dl5mp how is slapping together 3 piece machines or wasting 15 minutes fiddling around with ultra hand fun and impressive? every puzzle is ultrahand.

[@Ray-dl5mp]

@@mjesus850 a lot of the game is moving place to place. That is what the game really understood well about BOTW and did a different version of that for TOTK. It’s fun because it’s a puzzle of pieces. Basically like traditional puzzle you would do at home. These are the shrines I’m talking about now. But then you also have the satisfaction of getting to the location you’re trying to get to with different paths. I’m not saying a lot of the shrines are super deep or 10/10 on quality scale of anything. I would much prefer a game with 8-10 massive dungeons over this. The dungeons were way too short and simple for most part. The shrines gives you Zelda flavor in the open world.

[@brandonvaughn3139]

You let one game almost influence your decision on being a Zelda fan? 😂. If your favorite artist, musician, etc. released a piece of work you don’t care for, you just stop being a fan?

[@TheEvilRohanite]

BotW was the first Zelda game I played to completion (just a couple months back, almost done with TotK by now too) and the moment I heard Impa explain "the battle between the princess, her swordsman and the calamity has been repeating for 10000 years" I went "oh so they're basically admitting we don't care about writing a continuous narrative every game is just a new version of the same basic plot". Seems like you might be happier with this series as a newcomer these days haha

[@ralcogaming7674]

Problem is that's not what the game was saying. It was saying the calamity has happened over and over for 10,000 years. Meaning just this games antagonist has been alive for that long. We aren't even technically sure when Zelda goes back to but it's well over 20-30,000 years. Which just why?

[@Czah5]

I do wish that LoZ would go back to the best "open world" formula that they, themselves, cultivated. Being able to go anywhere, but not being able to do everything.

[@ClarenceJBoddicker]

Holy Moly... Now that's a critique!

[@FeedMeSalt]

It was basically a tech demo for shit valve built a litteral life time ago.

[@GoronMerchant]

I and my dad, who grew up playing “Zelda 1” “OOT” all the way to BOTW…. We both disliked and find TOTK lazy.

[@OGAngie]

I feel like they hyperfocused their energy into making the physics of the zonai devices work well which wasted a ton of time and took away from the story. Most of us care about the story the most, and those of us who feel that way felt very disappointed. The hebra region was almost well written, then everything else felt rushed and lackluster.

[@javiervasquez625]

​@@OGAngie Agreed a lot of development time was focused exclusively on the vehicle crafting mechanic showing Nintendo was mostly focused on the gameplay innovation aspect of the game rather than a rich, Lore driven and story focused experience filled with deep meaning, subtle messaging and rich worldbuilding. A weird combination of both quality > quantity and quantity > quality.

[@sweetdreams1028]

Tysm for giving your honest opinions on TotK. I prefer BotW, for many reasons, but I think the main reason is because it gave me an experience like no other and was just something so new and different for the franchise. Whereas, as it pains me to say that TotK was just BotW DLC. I know that was how the game came to be, but it was just something fun to play for a bit and I’ve only come back here and there to it. Unlike BotW, where I just kept playing many times after I finished.

[@bathboy7115]

My head canon is Tears of the Kingdom is an alternate timeline

[@raen5256]

Shoot that Wizrobe/nice shot! Loved hearing your thoughts on this, you put into words a lot of my feeligns after playing the game

[@Pixillious]

It got to the point where if I heard “demon king?” “Secret stone?” I would get annoyed instantly

[@ninalily]

This is a great video! I am really enjoying it ❤❤

[@PacketMix_]

This is exactly what I needed today! Thank you

[@awsome182]

My favourite Zelda game is Twilight Princess.

[@lewis1423]

i feel like one more year of dev time would have made a world of difference for this game. totk has a really cool mechanic ( though it was not for some people) nothing else got any focus. i felt the world and every other feature of the game felt to disconnected from ultrahand, where climbing, combat, and many other features could be undermind by flying or battle contraptions. i understand that without reusing botw, they would never have been able to make ultrahand but i think it feel to disconnected from evreything and honestly lore and secrets also felt like a backburner idea.

[@mkjjoe]

Officially they spent a year before release to make sure everything runs fine, implying the scope and content were "done" before that. Aonuma repeated he felt everything he wanted to include was there, but I can't help to feel like they cut some stuff out and probably had ways to flesh out a lot of stuff but they needed to focus on what was already there. Always nice to remember that their creativity can carry into the next game...

[@CuppaGi]

TotK pretty much single-handedly killed the theory community overnight by proving that they don't consider the lore at all when making new games. Thing is, the proof was always there. The timeline split, Minish Cap being the origin of the Hero's cap despite the earliest game in the timeline having the cap be part of the uniform, Ganondorf's appearance in Four Sword Adventures, etc. But we always had ways around it. Ways to explain away the inconsistencies. And then TotK single-handedly destroyed all of it. We should have expected this. Despite being Eiji Aonuma's games, Zelda was birthed from the mind of Miyamoto, a man notoriously against story in video games.

[@Lucrei.]

I don't think this is Miyamoto's fault... while he has been involved with Zelda continiously he hasn't had a very hands on role since Twilight Princess

[@f.a.santiago1053]

1) Favorite franchise: Final Fantasy 2) I don't think the people in charge of Zelda actually care about narrative anymore... since Nintendo bigwigs went on record disregarding narrative in games, I'm not surprised. 3) Nice shot! 4) My favorite Zelda game is BotW (treating TotK as DLC) 5) Oracle of Seasons had seasons... but having an actual season progression system that changes some of the events of the world and the side quests according to the season sounds AMAZING. 6) Wandering bosses would be AWESOME!!! 7) Pieces of hearts coming back would be AWESOME!! 8) Dungeons would be AWESOME!! 9) Rogue-lite dungeons would be AWESOME!! 10) Game modes would be would be AWESOME!! 11) We definitely need a new villain. Ganondorf is getting annoying... 12) Underwater is so iffy... It would be nice to be able to swim and do combat, so long as they figure out a way to keep the same flow. Having underwater gameplay that is slower than regular gameplay is very annoying. 13) Guild Wars 2 has the best use for mounts that I have seen in ANY game. 1X) This whole video was AWESOME!!

[@spudsbuchlaw]

I just wish there was an option to pet dogs. Like, they acknowledged it in an interview as something that they knew people wanted, and said they might revisit it in the future, and then didn't. Its kinda a microcosm of the whole game ToT

[@trenton9]

I agree. This was a glaring irritation to me. And it's not like I viewed petting a dog as a big priority. It's that Nintendo acknowledged it and outright ignored it. There is still so much I love about this game. I just hate the sensation of certain things feeling like afterthoughts, whether it be something small like petting a dog or something big like narrative continuity.

[@darashowers7957]

I think it would be cool to pull the birth by sleep thing and make it where you can choose one of the Triforce timeline u want to go through (ganondorf, link, or Zelda) and make each storyline unique to that character

[@BulletArc47]

I sympathize with you Bandit, but I feel like this has been a MO in Zelda for a long time. I am an older gamer, mid thirties, and I had this problem with Twilight Princess before the HD release and Skyward Sword. I think every deep Zelda fan reaches a point with the series where it doesn’t offer anything intellectual beyond borderline schizophrenic connection to a deeper story or other titles. I still enjoyed TotK, but it could not recapture the magic of BotW’s world. TotK is not a well thought-out story as much as it is a fun fool-around game, which is probably very insulting to anyone that invests any amount of metal effort in deciphering cryptic clues that may foretell something deeper and meaningful.

[@ShadowWizard224]

Breath of the Wild had a superior story with better shrines, characters, and side quests. The four champions all had interesting backstories and Kass was by far the greatest character in the entire game. He was way better than Penn. I would even argue that Breath of the Wild had better dungeons. We have seen water and fire temples before and they have been done much better than Tears of the Kingdom but at least Breath of the Wild had a unique concept where the dungeons take the form of a giant animal that fits its environment and navigating the entire beast made room for some interesting atmosphere and puzzles. The shrines in Tears of the Kingdom were annoying as hell especially the cave ones and Rauru should be a preacher with how many blessings he gives. The actual shrine puzzle should be harder and more challenging than actually finding the shrine itself. The four champions are superior to the sages in every way possible. When it comes to side quests and side adventures I honestly think that Breath of the Wild has it beat. I had a lot more fun doing side adventures in that game than I did with Tears of the Kingdom which a lot of them seem absolutely pointless. If you were to rank all of them side by side Tarrey Town from Breath of the Wild would be at the very top. Exploring the world, especially the depths, isn’t really all that rewarding because the game makes you grind out the tedious depths and all they reward you with is the same outfits and clothing from Breath of the Wild. It was lazy on Nintendo’s part and not very good in my personal opinion. Breath of the Wild soundtrack is vastly underrated and even though Tears of the Kingdom has some new music on it’s own it still for the most part borrows the music from its predecessor. Breath of the Wild has one of the most beautiful and underrated soundtracks in the entire series and I will DIE on that hill. Lastly, the dungeons in Tears of the Kingdom have pleasant atmosphere and vibes but if you really think about it they are not very good as well when it comes to gameplay. Water Temple is by far the worst dungeon in the entire series and it makes the Divine Beasts look like master pieces. Wind Temple is just a smaller and easier version of a Divine Beast. Navigating the rail carts in the fire temple was annoying and most people will end up cheesing it. And the spirit temple doesn’t even count because its just a list of chores you have to do leading up to the actual dungeon which only leads to a boss fight that really wasn’t that good. As a matter of fact you can literally cheese all the dungeons with autobuild which makes them 10x easier to begin with. The only decent temple was the lightning temple and even that was short as hell. In conclusion I think Tears of the Kingdom has good moments but Breath of the Wild was more impactful and more well balanced with better characters, shrines, side quests, and overall story.

[@thegoggle823]

I'm way late to this video, but I think part of the problem the zelda theorist community is having is that TotK just makes it unequivocally clear that the "timeline" is, and always has been, an afterthought. It was already pretty apparent just by exploring the timeline and the contradictions it contained, and the edits to the timeline itself. There IS connective tissue between the games, lots of it, but it's mostly just referential rather than evidence of a continuum. All of that to say that zelda theories for TotK feel constrained to BotW and TotK rather than revelatory for the whole series, and as a result it feels like it doesn't answer many of the questions that BotW raised. The timeline has always struck me as a colossal reach, and I've always felt that we should just assume that the only true continuities are the ones expressed mostly explicitly in the games themselves.

[@radianthunter2029]

I find it funny how Elden ring was in development for less time costed less and had like triple the amount of content then in totk lol. Couldnt have said this better tbh great video! also nice shot ;)

[@orlando5789]

Elden Ring also doesn’t have systemic, emergent gameplay systems that take a lot of time to properly develop

[@amandaslough125]

​@@orlando5789Too bad they couldn't put work to the rest of the game and had to heavily rely on reusing assets.

[@radianthunter2029]

@@orlando5789 Ive beat totk lol I know what the game has and it dissapointed me tbh

[@mkjjoe]

There are comparisons to be made but most of those I've seen are too superficial, wildly different games

[@radianthunter2029]

@@mkjjoe I get this alot but u can still compare the overall quality of the games to eachother it dosent really matter if like ones diffrent then the other imo

[@GeekMuscle]

Personally, i loved Tears of the Kingdom more than Breath. I think it perfected that specific formula. However, overall, I also agree with your criticisms as well. With both Botw and Totk, they lacked that same feeling older games had. I hope the next game retains the open world formula from Totk, but it incorporates storytelling and some liniarity when it comes to dungeons and items like previous games. Also, one thing i personally feel they need to do is make it full voice acting even with your random NPC.

[@javiervasquez625]

Link should be allowed to speak already just like he does in Zelda 2 ("There's a mirror under the table") and The Wind Waker ("Come on!"). That whole "Link is an avatar to the player" thing is so outdated and lacking in terms of depth that it doesn't make sense in the context of a messianic character born to fight wathever Evil is plaguing the world of Hyrule and beyond. Were it up to me i would make the next Link have dialogues during cutscenes while regular NPC conversations give players a few unique dialogue options regarding what to say to trigger specific conversations. There's no reason why Link can't be both his _own_ character while at the same a player's avatar so i don't see why this could never happen in a future sequel.

[@GeekMuscle]

@javiervasquez625 Unfortunately, nintendo doesn't see it that way, especially the old timers working there.

[@javiervasquez625]

@@GeekMuscle They eventually will have to if they expect _modern gamers_ to be invested on their games. The reason why the Dark Souls games, Horizon Forbbiden West and Elden Ring sold so much is because these games didn't rely on cheap characterization, underwhelming narratives and lackluster worldbuilding to make the player invest themselves in exploring all the gigantic openworlds these games have to offer. Should Nintendo expect to get their playerbase to remain invested in Zelda they'll have to address this problem with their formula in the future otherwise this franchise will never again reach the same level of popularity as it's many competitors in the openworld style of gameplay already have.

[@homerman76]

@@javiervasquez625 There's just no need for Link to speak though, the silent protagonist concept is one of the appeals of the Zelda series. It's not even an outdated concept, a lot of modern series retain this aspect to great effect. It's fine if your preference would be for him to speak, but I just don't agree that it's a necessary change that would even benefit the series in any way.

[@javiervasquez625]

@@homerman76 Except it would since having a silent protagonist in 2024 is outdated and most gamedevelopers agree (including Nintendo if the recent Mario games are anything to go by). With Zelda becoming an extremely dialogue driven franchise with Breath of the Wild it becomes ever more impossible a task to tell a cohesive narrative involving a mute protagonist that it makes sense for Nintendo to break this outdated, logic dismissive rule from the Lore altogether in favor of telling a truly inmersive storyline which aknowledges it's protagonist by giving him the _identity_ he most rightfully deserves in order to properly convey his involvement in the narrative in complete contrast to the emotionless mime doll we've seen in 2 consecutive games in the Wild duology. Link deserves better than that and so Nintendo has every right to deliver such treatment to one of their most iconic protagonists.

[@asherdasher1996]

Hello I’m still watching this. I’m glad you’re thinking of branching out on different franchises. Pokémon is my favorite franchise but I would love to see some franchises that you are interested in.

[@javiervasquez625]

I would love it if he focused on Metroid Prime 4 once it comes out for sale.

[@StonyStark]

I’m a fan of the channel now, finally subscribed. Keep going brother

[@Painted_Owl]

2:13:46 That was honestly a pretty good Matt Mercer impression

[@Banjo404]

I love these rants, I thought I was the only one!

[@balegdah]

The story and lore in this game was terrible. After all those years in development I was hoping they'd cook up something great. Even disregarding that, and ignoring the fact it's basically Breath of the Wild's map copy-pasted, but I had no motivation to explore anything. The new physics tools were cool but I feel like that's what their budget went into. If I wanted to explore a large open wasteland with terrible textures and half-baked combat I'd play Fallout 3

[@created3612]

Yeah once again they baited us with the story. They made the trailers look like it was gonna be present and we’d see Ganondorf in real time destroying Hyrule, but yet again they threw all that stuff in the past along with Zelda and the only way we can see the story is by viewing a random memory. The devices are technically impressive but they honestly don’t serve much value to the game. The world doesn’t encourage you to use it uniquely so most the time you’re gonna build some 3-piece build that lets you cheese everything. It took so much development time away from what could’ve been spent fleshing out the islands, depths, and surface.

[@mjesus850]

@@created3612 yep, honestly the physics system was legit just made so they could score their 10/10's. game reviewers love looking for some "revoultionary" system and base the entire game on that. legit anyone who actually enjoys playing the game or arent autistic wont be using the physics to its fullest extent and it doesnt even make since in an entry like this. im not playing minecraft, and half of these machines are almost 0 point to build. you just devolve into 3 piece machine wasting time putting it together.

[@djlotusx]

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO AGREES THAT MOST ZELDA GAMES HAVE BEEN OPEN WORLD! WE HAVE NEVER WENT LEVEL TO LEVEL IN A ZELDA GAME, WE ALWAYS HAD AN OVERWORLD WITH DUNGEONS AND TOWNS AND A BIG ASS CASTLE!🤣🤣

[@jeansnow1116]

Love you Bandit I feel you! Those copy paste cinematics were a disappointment, I love TOTK and Zelda still my favorite franchise

[@CoolSmoovie]

The dev team relying on copy paste gameplay sections in different positions of the map is crazy from this budget. This must have been the most stress free development ever

[@Hobopaladin]

If i would summarize my thoughts of totk, It would be this. It manages to be the best game in the series, while also at the same time being pretty much one of the worst.

[@javiervasquez625]

It's like Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link in that it's completley disjointed from everything we've seen both before and after the game's release yet still stands out by been it's own unique thing appart from the rest.

[@Ray-dl5mp]

Yes there are so many moments playing the game where I’m saying to myself this is some of the most incredible gameplay and fun stuff ever. Then there are other moments where I understand what Nintendo is going for and I’m wishing they made other decisions. This game basically splits your brain down the middle. Just matters what mood you’re in or what you focus on. Overall it’s a great game, but limited by its sequel nature with same map and art style and how it chose to do the story and dungeons. But I also love it.

[@Hobopaladin]

@@Ray-dl5mp exactly. At one point I think the zonai had some potential…but at the same time I get kind of confused on how they are the founders of hyrule when there is just two around in totk. Maybe depths was a past hyrule. I could see them founding that part…but honestly without anything being fleshed out story wise, what’s the point of adding the zonai AND the depths… Also why is the only good sky island the starting one? The rest are just lazy copycats outside the dungeon ones. I also think that the memory mechanic in this game was utterly useless and stupid. I can’t for once understand why the events from thousands of years ago, from an era we have never witnessed or can relate to any shape or form was made into a game mechanic. I didn’t see one memory in order and it made the story telling feel so bad. It was fine in botw, since just 100 years had past. But totk takes it to far. Each memory was short, didn’t offer any actual story telling outside key moments, Sonia’s death and the seal of ganondorf. It doesn’t really tell us why ganondorf did what he did, if demise is involved…all we saw is that he did stuff for some reason… I would rather have had a more detailed storytelling or even 5-20 min of pure in game cinematic and where everything is told in order than to have anything to do with the memory mechanic again if it’s going to randomize important story telling. I could complain about hours about totk, cause it did let me down…but at the same time I did enjoy the game, but the fact that it sacrifices storytelling for “freedom” is weird to me…cause Witcher 3 manages the freedom part perfectly while still telling linear and good stories that sometimes offers different outcomes. It kind of feels like Nintendo created a problem for Zelda, when the solutions for the issues that totk has, atleast to me personally been around for ages and already solved by other games in the past. A sandbox world can still have active storytelling. GTA 3 did it, vice city did it, gta 5 did it, Skyrim did it, oblivion did it…even wind waker did it. I think the world of totk was fun. Sure there wasn’t any meaningful npc or events that drastically changed the game from botw, but it’s still fun to ride around and explore on a horse, or chill and just enjoy design…but nothing like that would change if they just added some structure. The first 50 % of the game was awesome, I enjoyed the freedom…but after 50 % of the game I wanted a narrative. If we ignore the memories…link meet ganondorf 5 min at the start of the game and 5 min at the end of the game. Sure more times if we count phantom ganon…but that’s not enough and at that point I wonder, why even put him in game at all? It’s a great game, but some decisions really spoils my mood when i think back on it. Obviously this is just my opinion and it’s not a fact.

[@Ray-dl5mp]

@@Hobopaladin I completely agree with basically everything you said. There is a reason I didn’t feel conpelled to finish the game for months after completing the dungeons - just did other things in life, not in the game. The reason is…the story is so uninteresting the way it’s told and how you never see the big bad until the end. You would think it was obvious after BOTW they needed to have better in game interactions with Zelda and the main villain. The way they told the story kinda through dungeons tried to have a Zelda tease. But that’s all it was. The beginning of the game and the “Zelda interactions” were all a tease. And it’s super concerning it seems like the devs are saying anti story lines about what they think. SS is probably my favorite game because of story and epic and beautiful moments. Zelda should have great gameplay AND have those incredible story moments. Not just at the beginning and at the end. Come on Nintendo. Stop making excuses and put the right mix together.

[@Hobopaladin]

@@Ray-dl5mp well said.

[@kellevichy]

The enemy of art is the absence of limitations.

[@Drazil232]

Honestly, after playing BotW & TotK I have one single wish: Return to the old formula, lol. Honestly, do something like the Metroid series, having classic Zelda be the regular stuff and the open world games be more of a spin-off.

[@javiervasquez625]

Unfortunately won't happen given the massive shift from major gamedevelopers to focus on openworld/openair game development to give players a truly "inmersive" experience filled with exploration, copy paste sidequests, generic looking NPCs and lots of microtransactions to help ease the difficulty for the unpreprared novice. Modern games just aren't the fun linear experience they once were as Nintendo has followed along this trend by doing the same thing other such competitors are doing.

[@NuiYabuko]

​@@javiervasquez625 Salty much?

[@javiervasquez625]

@@NuiYabuko Realist much?

[@Eldaino999]

This hits even harder after the revelation this past weekend from Nintendo that: A. Not only do BOTW and TOTK exist in their own timeline but B. There is no connective thread between BOTW and TOTK.

[@JeanOlivierGagnon]

I’m with you man. Had to drag myself through the many flaws of BotW. Came into TotK half indifferent but hoping for enhancements, fixes, new tools…. Then immediately completed all the starting shrines by making a very stick and walking on it. Nothing changed, it made no sense that the Master Sword and Link got DESTROYED by a little bit of darkness in the opening cinematic. I wasn’t interested in roaming the Hyrule I already explored for 100+ hours. So my playtime for TotK is 5 hours and I am completely over it. First 3D Zelda I do not care about one bit. **walks away slowly**

[@Level_Eleven]

Favorite franchises that are not Zelda: Dark Souls Bloodborne Sekiro Shadows Die Twice Elden Ring Lies of P Monster Hunter Super Smash Bros. Halo Animal Crossing Half-Life Mario The Elder Scrolls (4&5) GTA Favorite Zelda game: Ocarina of Time, still my favorite game ever no questions asked

[@latios3874]

Honeslty... What I want in a zelda game... is the story. Thats the biggest reason I play these games. Twilight Princess moved me so much. Skyward sword was the same, even though the story has a few repetetive hic ups. On a lesser extent but still up there I love the gameplay That included the dungeons. Link to the past I had a blast with. Breath of the wild had great gameplay (and techically tears did too since it's a copy with a few upgrades like ultra hand, but we all know where it fails everywhere else). Story and gameplay. Thats what I've loved

[@kretisme]

I know this is an older vid so you probably wouldn't see this but one of my favourite series is the tales of series

[@jetrey811]

Hi! Still watching! My first Zelda game I finished was BotW, which encouraged me to go back and play Twilight Princess because that was my first Zelda game as a kid (but I couldn’t finish it too dumb of kid lol). Quickly absorbed as many of the games I could get my hands on and fell in love. But even with Breath of the Wild being the first of my Zelda franchise love, I definitely felt the “staleness” of Tears of the Kingdom lore. Not even recency bias could hide the lackluster story of the sequel. Mind you, gameplay was fun still

[@SiliconSlyWolf]

TotK has definitely made me question if it's even the same Hyrule, or maybe, the only possible way I can believe it is, is if the Zonai suddenly show up for some reason at the end of the timeline from before BtoW was announced to be at the end of all the other games, and BotW and Hyrule basically lead to Hyrule 2.0. The Rito alone being around during the founding of Hyrule in TotK messes everything up. Then there's the Zonai costume in TotK leading to a reference it makes Link look like the hero in the tapestry. And I can't be bothered to type out my thoughts on the Zonai, founding of Hyrule, and the sky islands in TotK vs. Skyward Sword. I feel like they've undermined the entire point of ever officially bringing the games together in the first place. The only thing I can actually buy into is it's either the "real" Hyrule, and all the other games were given the Matrix treatment as legends and fables, or that it's an entirely new Hyrule that just shares characteristics from the series.

[@SytRReD]

yaaaaaay I love Bandit's vids, I love long vids, so... yay 🤩🥳

[@taco8136]

I disagree with a handful of your points, but for the main selling point of the game (except for building), there needed to be so much more islands and they needed to be much bigger and unique. It was in all the trailers and very hyped up to be this whole new hyrule in the sky, the only good islands were the temples, and starter island. Finding the depths for the first time was my favorite part of the game, it was so awesome and even if the depths weren’t very cool jumping into a seemingly bottomless pit and then finding this whole new world shrouded in darkness, it was awesome and also extremely spooky, and pretty cool at first, also 🎉MASTER KHOGA🎉. While the frox and others were cool and all, I was hoping to see a lot less malice monsters and more of a interesting and unique creatures for this alien looking are, maybe just a bunch of weird passive monsters and maybe even the old creepy guardian designs. Also, after that section where he recognized Link and Zelda, I was going crazy wondering which Gannondorf he was crazy fun, and when I still thought he was a gannondorf from another game was one of the best parts of the game for me as well, I thought he was gonna be going showing up threw out the game kinda like Demise’s sword dude, expect cooler because it’s GANNONDORF, also when I saw the trailer I was really hoping that demise would show but because if the sword breaks then he can get out, because he was trapped in there. I was expecting this story would be the ultimate Zelda game connecting different games, imagine Demise and Gannon making some devious schemes a lot more badass moments, a take for the fans but also just a good game for newcomers. Basically the first game in the franchise to actually acknowledge there are other games in the timeline(except the warrior games) you guys are smart enough to get my point, even if it wasn’t as grand as Demise, the original evil, at least give us ocarina of time Gannon or wind wake Gannon. Also I want guardians back for epic mech fights. Or just mechs or massive creatures that don’t disintegrate you builds immediately. [Edit] sorry for typos and stuff. Very long comment, not fixing it

[@griffboll]

i feel like it being said that it was supposed to be a dlc for BOTW, having alot of the same assets in the game is pretty self explanatory.

[@SiliconSlyWolf]

You lose some of the base weapon durability, but you can save the fused items by taking them to the Goron child in Tarry Town or however it's spelled. It's not worth it on the more basic items you can replace, but on things like boss parts or other stronger things like silver enemy parts, you can greatly benefit by spending the money to split those parts off before losing the base weapon. Also with what I learned about breaking the base item to get the pristine versions spawning, that might still contribute to that. Something I would have to test.

[@tthom9068]

I watched all of these videos separately and then I proceeded to watch them all together. I don't know if I'm bored, procrastinating, or finally found someone who's able to critize a game to death while still loving it. Its also comforting I get the validation knowing other people have the same opinion as me haha, but personally here are my takes on TOTK if anyone wants to read them. (English is not my first language im sorry) Firstly, the game should have started with a boss fight. Now, this is ig more of an opinion rather than an actual criticism, but I think that playing through the story is a lot more fun than hearing or watching the story. I think the huge build up from going all the way down and finding the ancient tablets, and zonai malarkey to find ganon (or whatever the evil entity was), down there, would have been the perfect time to initiate a boss fight. And then maybe when we try to weaken the evil entity with Zelda's powers, Link strikes his sword and it breaks. It would have been more powerful if the player was able to experience that rather than, a very well built up scene just for some random guy to save us. I think a boss fight where you are supposed to lose would have just given the player more oomph to want to explore and want to beat him because the player lost in the beginning. Secondly, the story. I mean seriously what is going on with the story. The lost memories thing really did work for Link the first time, but AGAIN? Like come on. I dont think its necessarily lazy, but for another link to just have everything go black and be saved from such an intense battle is annoying. Granted, I do think that someone had to save him from ganon so link couldnt die, I mean the story has to progress somehow, but why couldn't it have felt more survival esc where we were stuck down there until we found the stone and then raru is summoned or whatever. Bc to be quite frank, if Rarauu can just save Links life then why didn't he just stop Ganon right then and there (I know its more nuance to it then just that but) my point is its silly that Raruu can save Link teleport him far away in his weakened state mind you. Then why didn't he just do that when Ganon first arrived? (Again I know its more nuance, but it just makes the story seem a little silly dramatic, instead of fantasy dramatic.) Thirdly, the map. The whole point around the hype of TOTK was the sky, and its literally 5 islands and a bunch of copycat islands (The dungeons, thundercloud isles, and great sky, Labyrinthe)(ANd then basically any shrine quest in the sky is one of 3 kill a boss or guiding those green stones) and Bandit does say this, but I really just want to reiterate how good of a point that is. Granted development for the game of BOTW compared to TOTK was a lot less, but honestly I would have rather them just spend more time on it then releasing a good enough game. The depths when you first see them is SO cool, like man I wanted to explore the heck outta those things, and then the bosses down there are all repeats, in just retextured forms, like no different attacks or anything, and to top it off the same reward you run around finding poe spirits. (Im not complaining necessarily about reused bosses but its literally one of the only things to fine down there.) The thing about BOTW, is it was one of the first games where open world didnt mean dead space, but tears of the kingdom feels like SO, much dead space. Since IM tired and already have a math test to do Ill rap this up but overall again, totk is a great game, but just what it could have been could have made one of my favorite franchises so good. The only thing I can really say is I wish companies would take a long time to release not just good products but beyond average, rather than it feeling like, yeah they liked it last time so theyll like it this time.)

[@elianewinter2638]

wow i absolutely love your ideas!

[@Altzar2011]

12:00 about that tidbit. I hated that the game insinuated that the Original Games, lore wise took place in the same world as TOTK, yes.... But thousands upon thousands of years apart from each other and THEN the imprisonment war happens on top of all these important successes.... Again, I could be wrong, hence why I use the word "insinuated", however, it was a strange realization to have coupled with the fact that BOTW had no impact on its sequel. Basically. Like, where are even the Divine Beasts?? For example... The game is a direct continuation... And to follow on the "everything is new lore bit" the Depths could have had a part of it BE Lorule. LORULE. An obscure-ish dimension in the same franchise. It could had added existing lore to the very... very lacking Depths that the game already offer. The same with the Sky Islands, some of them I didn't even bother to visit as they were.... empty. Barren. But here we are, good video regardless mate. You end up addressing this too. Amazing video dude.

[@Layne_____]

1:08:00 It's very clear that they wanted to make a new unrelated zelda game, but they also wanted to use the already developed world and assets. The solution is to gaslight the fans into thinking the story is less important than the gameplay

[@StormsparkPegasus]

I really liked TOTK. More than BOTW. It was a great game. But it wasn't perfect. I'd give it a maybe 9/10. It has two massive glaring flaws that keep it from a 10. 1) lack of gear sets, and having to change out items individually...absolutely unacceptable. 2) the way the sages were implemented. While it was ok for when the actual sages were following you in their dungeon...after you got them permanently it needed to be an ability rather than derpy people following you and running away when you try to click on them. Also absolutely unacceptable. While I didn't hate the new lore, I think it's a bit too retcon-heavy for my tastes, and I really wished it had connected back to the other games more. You're right in that it feels like they went to fan speculation videos about the Zonai and said "do ALL of that". The Zonai were NOT planned in BOTW, it was just a funny name for ruins (being an anagram of "mystery" or "puzzle" in Japanese).

[@Ray-dl5mp]

Yes the only saving grace regarding the sages is you can turn them off. Or individual ones off if you want. Otherwise I might have never completed the game. So it kinda works in that sense since you don’t need to have them with you. But yes not a great implementation and the abilities or weapons of the older Zelda games is a lot more exciting way to finish a dungeon. I also didn’t like how BOTW did it either. Both games basically had one ability or sage that made travel easier that I appreciated. The rest I would rather not have on most of the time.

[@mell7249]

More of an 8/10 in comparison to BoTW's 9/10 but these scores reflect my personal enjoyment and not my opinion on how well executed the games were.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

@@mell7249 That's fair...my 9 was based on the fact that I still mostly really enjoyed the game, but it had enough flaws that I had to take a point off. Even though I pretty much agree with everything he said about the lore issues, it didn't really impact my enjoyment of the game itself.

[@Giggles_iJest]

*To further BotW's sheer superiority, I will say this:* TotK's story is bad, Fs with pre-established key lore aspects, absolutely shatters all the Master Sword's reputation, unga bunga buff Dorf with little to no ambition other than "me strongest there is" uninteresting, nearly everyone forgot who you were despite this game taking place a mere 4-6 years after Wild, Rauru existing is an insult, no Fi, no breaking of the Demise curse despite it being falsely hinted being the case what with all the Skyward Sword PR this game got (I distinctly remember Skyward Sword being advertised as heavily linked to TotK somehow which, again, is misleading as on Nintendo's part), no dog petting, no hookshot spiderman swinging with the physics being suuuuch a driving factor in these newer Zelda games, no underwater exploration instead a damp dark smelly overgrown cave can't see jack, COLLOSAL missed opportunity to hitch the princess with her handsome knight in shining armor, no stakes since Zelda's sacrifice was reversed giving the story little to no agency or consequence, Link as a protagonist felt nonexistent feels like everyone else was the star of the show not the guy who's saving all their 🫏s, no Link backstory before any of this went down aka no Arryl 2 or Granny 2 aka NOT WIND WAKER, didn't make me cry like Twilight Princess, dungeons are STILL NOT dungeons (pulling a couple levers to open a door and then be treated with literally the same copy-paste cutscene at the very end with each champion? Yeah naw), sky islands hardly anything worth noting although they are pretty asf to look at, I was expecting a totally NEW revamped endgame super Saiyan master sword golden tier 4 legendary new hilt new everything but naw same design with a booboo scar and hilariously less powerful... hoverbike autobuild pales in comparison to THE Master Cycle As a game, sure, it's leagues above BotW but BotW will never be topped as a one-in-a-lifetime *experience* TotK was an overblown $70 DLC and I'm tired of pretending it's not. Mid.

[@AnicomicQueen]

Ahhhh! Also how could they NOT include Kass?! He had a FAMILY! DID HE DIE?! Is he from the past?! Was he a ghost the whole time in BOtW?! I really hoped there would be a Kass themed DLC so no DLC really killed me.😢

[@skinnybobz8793]

I still think there will be dlc, but on the switch 2 on a re-release. They need Zelda there in some way and they need to have big interest in the console when it comes out

[@TheLegendMaster]

I really didn't like the fact that Link had a companion for every dungeon because they're more than a game-companion like Navi or Midna, they are the main characters in each dungeon and Link just seems along for the ride which is re-inforced by the cutscenes where he might as well not be there. In Wind Waker you had Medli for one dungeons which was fine because it was limited and those dungeons were also good. We have four very mediocre dungeons in Tears of the Kingdom and Link might as well not be there for any of them as the whole plot is about the companion character.

[@eren985]

I of course already watched these videos and they are really great. I wanted to ask you if you could make a video about the next Zelda game or the perfect Zelda game as you imagine it. Not like in the last Video of this one but more like making a concept of a new Link and a new Hyrule and how the next Zelda looks for you. Maybe using some concept art or fan art as references. I hope you know what I mean. I appreciate your videos and the dedication you bring with it. Thank you for making my day every day.

[@deliat7478]

Hello, I'm still watching this lol Bayonetta!! It takes such a silly concept (dominatrix witch fighting angels with demons) and creates a FANTASTIC world with both completely silly and heartbreakingly real characters. It's funny and charming, and it's awesome if you want a challenge but you can totally just play it for the story.

[@apoplexiamusic]

35:46 i cannot agree more about the bombs being an ability. I love using bomb flowers, but i HATE constantly having to go run around the Depths for them, or hoping i stumble upon a few of them in a cave, to the point where i usually try to keep my bomb quantities around 20-30, or 50-60 if i have 30 minutes to kill farming in the Depths for them or for Poes. Let's be honest here. Which adult with a full time job and responsibilities has the time to farm for resources at the pace this game allows you to? The little free time i have to play games isn't enough to warrant spending it on getting items, so that playing with said items is the only thing making it fun. In any other game i could get currency from defeating pretty much any enemy to then be able to buy the items i want, instead of having to look for rupees for hours to find a few, or farming for stuff to sell to get a few hundred. The economy of the game is not good because it is so hard to find rupees. And the rewards for basically any task rarely feels worth it after a certain point of progression. If the enemies scale up in difficulty as you play, so should the rewards from fighting them or those found in chests. But the rewards aren't really worth it after a while and i don't want to use my powerful weapons for fear of breaking them, i don't want to go looking for koroks to expand my inventory, i don't want to spend hours in the depths looking for large crystallized charges to boost my battery. And upgrading armor pieces is easier in BOTW because you inly need the materials without having to pay to upgrade them on top. These are some of the reasons why after having upgraded a basic armor set to the max and upgrading most of the ones that give you really beneficial buffs or status effects, as soon as you get that set bonus, it's not worth the hassle to find the materials to upgrade them further. Basically after 200 hours, even though i haven't done all the shrines, i think i have 12 left, i don't really want to do the rest or do the spring side quest or whatever, because i know the reward is just gonna be a basic ass piece of armor i can't upgrade or that isn't worth upgrading.

[@Ryyouu]

Nintendo couldn’t have taken inspiration from Elden Ring for whatever that comparison was, the game was in development for so long and the depths were ingrained into the story. Maybe it resembles Elden Ring, but not an inspiration I appreciate the gameplay beside the commentary, but honestly it did have a big impact on your commentary and I think made it hard to understand some of your points

[@GoronMerchant]

This game is so bad, it ruined all hype for the “Next Zelda” I rather them just do remakes, or just go back to the OG stories.

[@javiervasquez625]

The "OG stories" in this case would be another game like TotK given Ganondorf's existence as an "incarnation of the Demon Tribe's hatred for the Hero and the Goddess" as stated by Demise in Skyward Sword. At this point it would make more sense for Nintendo to make a game which does *not* follow the OG stories but instead is it's own seperate narrative following a brand new villain with different motivations appart from Ganondorf's "this is what a king must do" mentality to give a deeper meaning to the conflict and give players a much more personal investment in the narrative than just "saving the world" for the millionth time. As long as Nintendo keeps the story at the foremost of their focus during development then there's a chance the next big Zelda game may overcome all of the failings which TotK brought to the table.

[@GoronMerchant]

@@javiervasquez625I’m sorry you’ve lost me. I just want good stories, that fit into the timeline. That’s it. I can think of 10 different ideas, that Nintendo has not even touched.

[@javiervasquez625]

@@GoronMerchant I want good stories too but like you said "OG stories" in Zelda ARE stories like the one in TotK given Ganondorf's existence just be a troll in Link and Zelda's lives courtesy of him been born for the sole purpose of antagonizing them for eternity. It's what i'm trying to say in regards to you wanting Nintendo to go back to the old Zelda stories from the earlier games: they are the _same thing_ to TotK. Instead of going back to the same thing (like TotK) they should instead focus on more interesting storylines which have nothing to do with Ganondorf and instead focus on more explicit things like conquering a kingdom, killing a specific individual, obtaining a magic relic to corrupt the world, etc. As long as it's not just a fight with Ganondorf the series can tell deeper storylines which rely on more than just the average thing we keep seeing with every new Zelda game that comes out.

[@GoronMerchant]

@@javiervasquez625no, TOTK is a awful story, with plot holes and retreads past mistakes. Example: “Star Wars, Return of The Jedi” great ending, wrapped up what came before, left it open, aka “BOTW” “Star Wars, Rise Of Palpatine” plot hole mess that retcons everything before, to tell the story it wants, aka “TOTK” Tell a story about SS Links children discovering new lands, Give us a true sequel to WW. Lots of options, that’s why I see no excuse for bad stories in Zelda.

[@javiervasquez625]

@@GoronMerchant I agree but i was talking about the _core_ elements of the Zelda narrative which are still very much present in both BotW and TotK as they are in the rest of the franchise: Link needs to stop Ganon/Ganondorf, he gets the Master Sword, defeat Ganon/Ganondorf, rescues Zelda and lives happily ever after. The End. It's the same basic formula across the entire series with Tears of the Kingdom only doubling down on it with Link repeating the same basic formula from the many games before with no creativity put into the story. Not sure how you thought bringing Star Wars into the conversation would somehow contradict anything i've said so far in this thread.

[@drewlmao]

I totally understand how you feel but respectfully Nintendo has never had any incentive to suck up to theorists. The connected lore has always been at the mercy of whatever content Nintendo thought would make for an interesting new experience. I feel like the hierarchy has always been: interesting new game mechanics > new lore > connecting to old lore. It may be a lot more apparent now, but I think that's in part because Nintendo finally caved to the fans and gave us a timeline, only for them to move forward with the series without really caring about it. But in reality it was just as much of an afterthought when previous games were being developed

[@TioJaviProductions]

I wasn't mad about the same Hyrule, but it should have been a love letter to the accomplishments of BOTW and your past hardship... I wasn't even mad about the story, but it really felt like it should have been another Link's story and not a sequel... I was truly hoping that the Zonai was just a branch of the Twilight people that emerge after the 1st calamity that was spoken from BOTW. Or how the Sheikah came to be, was it because Zelda inspired the Kings guards or that Warring clan that called themselves Zonai when in fact, they were just Hylians imitating Zonai people.

[@darkdagger5237]

there's an npc that tells us that the breath of the wild zonai ruins are older than the tears of the kingdom zonai ruins i think his name was calip he was an important member of the zonai research team

[@mkjjoe]

@@darkdagger5237 Do you remember the dialogue or when it is? During the Mineru quest the big owl passageway mixes both styles of darker (BOTW) and whiter (TOTK) stones, especially a small pillar where the damaged darker stone reveals whiter stone underneath.

[@darkdagger5237]

@@mkjjoe i know what your talking about the temple entrance point and the three dragon heads are tears of the kingdom zonai ruins however there are no signs that any other breath of the wild zonai ruins encase tears of the kingdom zonai ruins as for when calip says the breath of the wilds ones are older was before he left kakoriko

[@mkjjoe]

@@darkdagger5237 right! thank you, I looked it up again. In English he does say _"There's a site in Faron [...] it predates the ruins falling from the sky [...] there were dragon designs on those ruins that I haven't seen anywhere else"_ which would still be a bit ambiguous, but turns out other localizations don't seem to compare the age of these ruins and only mention that they are "ancient", including in Japanese. It's amazing to keep finding how terrible Nintendo of America's translations can be... As for not finding more evidence than what we mentioned above well... sure but that's still the best hints we have that I know of.

[@darkdagger5237]

@@mkjjoe i don't have access to the japanes version however there are the maze castles they contain shrines which were built before the fall of raru and there design is the same across the sky,surface and depths so that's evidence in favor of my statement thanks for the info on the localization

[@idknemore525]

They somehow made the world bigger but feel smaller.

[@julianantoine3397]

Your video explains my zelda pain!!

[@okas_art]

I think the main problem with sequels is the new creators don’t study on what worked in the context of that story and why it worked. Nostalgia hits don’t work for people that use their noggins to connect storyline dots. Because the only reason it’s nostalgic is because that event took place in a story worked in the context of that story. Proper set up and play offs were put in place to satisfy a consumer. That’s very linear and vague but we need to start recognizing what will make good sequels and why they fail so often