Touch Tool On Mazak Integrex E650H

My method of touching a milling tool on the OD of a round part.

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Like your method. Thank you for sharing this. Love the big machine.

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks! Randy.

[@CalvinoBear]

Very cool to get such an intimate view of such a large machine, and to see it operated with such grace. Thanks for sharing this with us.

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks Calvin for the comment!

[@johnl5177]

@@EdgePrecision what's is the price of a machine like yours we've recently purchased a large 21x60inch lathe with y axis live tool but wonder what the price of something like this is

[@EdgePrecision]

@@johnl5177 depending on the options the machine has. New it would be in the range of 900 thousand to 1.2 million dollars. Now I didn’t buy this machine new.

[@skirifles2076]

A GREAT video Peter! Your camera editing is great too!

[@EdgePrecision]

ski rifles Thanks! Glad you liked it.

[@julesthemachinist893]

I like the guy screaming at 3:16

[@zmajmr]

I think you are youtuber with bigest cnc machine :)

[@EdgePrecision]

Do you think so? You know I never really thought about it. I seen some manufacturing KZbin vids with much larger machines but not individuals.

[@meocats]

yes, i have not seen anyone else who owns their own machine, who's machine is that big. actually, i would go so far as to say your machine is larger than my apartment (35sq meters)

[@zmajmr]

I thought on person who own machine and comment what he is doing and upload video on youtube, I saw also biggest machines then yours but that are just presentations of company what is their business (machining ship engine crankshaft). I saw comment down bellow, place where I live is probably size of your machine, was wondering how delivery of machine look like ?

[@gman5986]

Great instructional video. You are one of the best teachers on KZbin!...Thank you for producing

[@phatst3r]

started doing this my self it works really well can get down to the micron with feel and a pin

[@Tools4Machines]

Really nice, simple, instructional video. Thanks Peter! -- Cheers, Gary

[@EdgePrecision]

Thank you Gary!

[@JeffreyVastine]

Peter, thanks for the helpful tutorial! That Mazak is really a big machine. I never really had a handle on its size until I saw you standing there and I now that you are not a small man. What type of parts were you making that required a machine like that? I am sure it has the capability to create some really interesting and complex parts. Of course, that is a vastly different world than mine with the youth outreach where we start off designing and building machines Gingery-style to help them create and outfit a workspace so they can start making things and build a future. Most of the youth are from poor communities so we are rather limited in what we can do, but it is amazing to watch their minds open up to the endless possibilities. Plus this is a good testing ground for ideas and concepts that will become part of the Open Source Machine Tools project to help developing countries. This is why videos like yours are important and will be a big help to people and communities that probably never crossed your mind. Even this video, which many would view as only being relevant to the CNC world, contains basic common sense principles that can be applied to manual operations and machines. This is why I appreciate you and the others who are willing to take the time to create content freely sharing your knowledge and experience in order to help others. Anyway, I hope that everything is well in your world.

[@EdgePrecision]

Jeffrey Vastine here in Houston Texas we primarily do petrochemical type work so some of the parts can be quite large/long. Also in order to use a reasonably long tool with the B axis turned vertically on a larger diameter part the machine has to be quite tall. If memory serves me it can turn about 30ish" in diameter X 120" long. It can swing larger but it would interfere with making a tool change. The large steady rest holds 3.9"-16.15". Spindle bore is 6 5/8" thru. So yes it is a good size machine.

[@scottlundy257]

That machine is a beast and man you really go through the tool bits I want to go dumpster diving in you shop trash

[@EdgePrecision]

Its because of the type of material I machine. All exotic material Inconel, Titanium, Various types of Stainless Steel. I very seldom get to machine just steel and forget about aluminum that would be heaven. on these parts I have to change the roughing tools every part. The finish tools every third part. I usually try not to run tools to where they cant be reground (Or to the breaking point). Than I can regrind them on my CNC tool&cutter grinder (If I only had time).

[@spazzywhitebelt]

You've probably covered this in another video but why don't you use a tool touch off probe? Thanks for making the videos, they're informative and well done. It's awesome to see someone using that type of machine on KZbin

[@EdgePrecision]

The short answer to that is I can do it faster manually. The touch probe on this machine is so high up that in order to jog the machine with a tool close to the sensor I cant see it clearly. I could stand in the chip conveyer but than I cant reach the jog wheel. I could do this with a jog pendent but the machine doesn't have one. The machine has a laser tool setter as well but it is malfunctioning. It has never worked since I have owned the machine and I cant bring myself to spend the money to fix it. The laser tool setter would do it automatically for milling tools. It might be worthwhile to fix it.

[@joonaantero]

3:11 laughed sorry

[@gredangeo]

What the hell happened back there? Somebody dropped a pallet of parts?

[@gman5986]

Sounds like someone scrapped a part or crashed the machine into the part!....Bummer

[@joonaantero]

@@gman5986 That sound was bad tho😂

[@derick3482]

@@gman5986 he was on a hass machine

[@jrvm77]

Thanks for the videos, I actually learn a lot from the..

[@EdgePrecision]

jose mendoza Thanks! Jose you don't know how good that is to here. It makes me want to make more.

[@jrvm77]

Hi, Please do...I program for Haas Horizontal and vertical mills and I try to learn different ways of making parts.. This type of videos give me ideas for different set-ups and also other type of toollls to use

[@Panzax1]

I realize I have asked some questions that you answered in some of your videos that I had not yet watched at the time. I am sorry about that. One thing I do wonder: Do you ever do parts that only require plain turning work on your Integrex ? I mean other than one-offs ? I am guessing you are not, given all the other lathes in the shop that probably could turn out parts like that faster ? Love the videos.

[@gredangeo]

5:06 T#62.2 What is that going on about? You can have decimal tool numbers? Is that a custom setting to essentially rename another T#, and have it become the 2nd T62?

[@EdgePrecision]

On a mazatrol control you can have mutable offsets on the same tool number. For example tool 1A, 1B, 1C exct. In a G code ( or what they call EIA) program the way you call for tool 1A is T1.01 tool 1B T1.02 tool 1C is T 1.03 and so on. So for every tool you can have as many tool offsets as letters in the alphabet. Except for the letters I, J, K if memory serves me.

[@shadowdsfire]

And you add 60 for heavy tools!

[@policebox1092]

Always i think You are very smart

[@metlmuncher]

Nice vid. The view from behind was cool. I'm curious what your reasons are for not using a pre-setter to measure offline? I know if my shop it was one my best decisions to make the move to one. Saves me a lot of frogging around.... Keep up the great vids man

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks Adam. I do have a Speroni Tool Setter I use for the horizontal mill. It has a Cat 50 spindle. I would have to have a adapter to a Capto 8 taper (The Mazak has a Capto 8 taper). When I inquired about one from Speroni they gave me a cost of around $4500.00. So that was out of the question. I did buy a Cat 50 to Capto 8 tool adapter from Sandvik around $400.00 if I remember correct. I do use this arrangement to setup boring heads for their initial size. The tool setter is across on the other side of the shop. It is faster for me to touch off the tools at the machine. Also I get a verification of the tool location on the controls display. The Mazatrol always shows the actual tip location in relation to the active fixture offset. A lot of controls this isn't possible without calling a G43 in MDI. The Mazak Doesn't require G43 in the programs code. Unless you are doing full 5 axis than it requires G43.4 for the tool length.

[@metlmuncher]

@@EdgePrecision Thanks for the reply. I figured you had your reasons. We all have our own situations. PS. Speroni is on crack to want $4500 for a socket. Lol

[@diligentcnc]

looks to me like a bunch of US 22 red endmill sleeves on your bench. I get bunches of tools from Bass Tool in Houston. Do you use them also? I'm spoiled by touch setting probes. Done plenty of time rolling a half inch endmill shank to set tools. Great point about a large part preventing the use of a setting probe.

[@EdgePrecision]

diligentcnc Yes they are US 22 endmills. I buy almost all my tooling from Bass tool been dealing with them before they were Bass tool. They were KBC tool first. The owner is Ariel Bass his sister owns KBC. He broke away from KBC and named his company Bass Tool. Really the only other tooling I buy is Sandvik I get that from Groves supply here in Houston.

[@christophercolumbus8944]

hi mr stanton can you either make a video or tell me how you touch off a drill bit for ZC drilling ? a morse taper drill bit with 135 edge angle using the probe or are there other ways?

[@EdgePrecision]

I'm not sure I understand your question. What are you referring to by ZC drilling?

[@christophercolumbus8944]

@@EdgePrecision ZC drilling if you're drilling along the Z axis AROUND the part so to speak. so if you look at your HSK holder there are holes all around it? those were ZC drilled. so the way i figured it was i used my 12mm spotting tool as the set up tool once i had that set up (X and Z) all the other tools used the same value "Z" for drilling.

[@koplandavid]

what kind of a toolholder that is ?

[@EdgePrecision]

The collet chuck is made be Big Daishowa. Its their Mega E milling chuck C8-MEGA13E-120. In this case holding a .500 4Fl carbide end mill in a .500 collet.

[@willch1987]

I’m relatively new to CNC and have a Tormach. Since you’re setting an end mill offset and not a lathe tool, why not measure with a height gauge/tool setter offline and enter it instead of touching off on a rounded part?

[@EdgePrecision]

Yes that would be possible. I have a tool setter and I use it for my horizontal mill. There are a couple of reasons I do it this way. It is faster and I can verify right on the controls display that I'm in the right location (This is not always possible on all machines controls. The Mazak always shows the tools tip location on its display.). Most tool setters have a Cat 50 spindle taper. My Mazak's milling spindle taper is a Capto 8 taper. This requires a adapter for the tool setter. A Cat 50 to Capto 8. I had in mind to get one until I got a quote. Over $4000.00 for such a adapter. My tool setter is across the other side of the shop next to the horizontal mill (Theirs that more time issue). I was also trying to demonstrate for those who don't have a tool setter how they could touch off a milling tool on a cylindrical part in the rotary axis. Sometimes this is necessary when fixturing restricts your ability to touch a tool off or use the tool setter on the machine. Such as a tailstock on a lathe with milling. Most newer CNC lathes have a fold down tool setter. But this can't be used if you have a part between centers. Or if the part is to long. So if you break a tool and have to replace it while the part is still in the spindle. You will have to touch it off on the OD of the part. Thanks for the comment ATB Peter.

[@meocats]

why aren't they all the same length and what do you think about heat-shrink tooling, and why aren't you using it in this case?

[@EdgePrecision]

I'm not quite sure what you mean all the same length? Can you elaborate? Yes I do use heat-shrink tooling just not any on this setup. Heat shrink tool holders are one of the best ways to go if you have them.

[@meocats]

all the endmills are the same tool length, so when you change them, if your holder as a stop, the tool height is the same

[@EdgePrecision]

In theory I guess that could work. I checked some of the endmills they very in length also I have no stop in the tool holder. My machine has a laser tool setter but it doesn't work(when I bought the machine it didn't work) and I don't want to put the money into it now. I like to touch new tools of anyway it gives me a conformation of the length. The Mazak shows you the length right on the screen because it updates the display from the offset. Most machines don't do that until a offset is called in the program. The Mazak even up dates the display in manual jog when I rotate the B axis. in other words full 5 Axis.

[@middlemanclayton1]

Edge Precision hey, i was wondering, how come you dont use mazatrol? i get using cam for 5 axis work but for standard jobs ive found mazatrol to be great for mill and lathes

[@EdgePrecision]

I most always machine off solid models on the computer (the main reason). I like Mazatrol for standard lathe only jobs. I don't care to much for their milling and the graphics to show what is happening is not as good as the cam software on the computer. I can do it faster for both lathe and milling on the cam software and get the tool path exactly where I want it. Some times with Mazatrol you just have to settle for the built in cycles they have. I use Mazatrol mainly to bore soft Jaws.

[@billdlv]

So you are starting with the gap too small and jogging up till it just fits? I don't know much about cnc machines but don't they have some kind of fixture to set the length of the tool?

[@EdgePrecision]

Bill De La Vega Yes this machine does have a laser tool probe but it doesn't work. It has a problem and I don't want to spend the money on it now. Be that as it may every machinist should know how to manually set tools. Typically CNC lathes have a probe that folds down. If the part is to long or to large in diameter it interferes with the tool probe. So if you have to set a new tool with the part in the chuck (and this will certainly happen) you have to do it manually. Also many older machines don't have tool probes. Actually I prefer to touch tools manually. On the Mitsubishi horizontal I use a tool Speroni optical setter on the bench.

[@masonkubecka9163]

You have so many tools how often do you replace them I have never run anything other than aluminum but they last like 30 hours for me

[@EdgePrecision]

Mason Kubecka in these materials tools may only last 15 to 30 minutes or less for roughing tools. It's hard to say. Some times the tool life can be measured in inches of travel. The segments in my other video the inserts have to be indexed every part. It takes 15 minutes to run each part. Thats why there are 16 cutters for 16 pieces. That way it can run for 4 hours in attended.

[@meocats]

if the capto tapers get rusty from lack of care, can they be reconditioned (reground)?

[@EdgePrecision]

On the tool holders? I would say it would be to costly to do so. You also need special grinding equipment and gages to do it properly. It us to be that Sandvik had to license you to make them but I think their patent has run out.

[@clickblol]

Yes，it's a good method to prevent workpiece damage,much safer ,and accurate（maybe within +-0.015 mm）. But i have a question, you have such a big turning center,why don't you invest in a tool pre-setter，that's much more cheaper than this big machine， you can set the tool length much more faster.

[@EdgePrecision]

There is a laser tool setter on the machine (Never has worked since I've owned the machine) and a fold down tool probe. The problem is the tool probe is so high on this machine. Above my head level (I am 6' 2" tall). The machines hand wheel is mounted to the control panel. There is no pendent for it. It is very difficult to reach the jog wheel and jog buttons and look up and see the tool at the tool setter. If the laser tool setter worked that would be better for milling tools because the cycle is done all automatically. So I've just got use to doing it manually. I need to fix the laser tool setter and calibrate the fold down tool probe. Also invest in a jog hand wheel pendant. I have been just a little lazy about doing it and it all costs money I don't want to spend at this time. In some ways touching a tool manually on this machine can be more accurate for a given setup. With the tool setters the tools are all touched off with the B axis at zero degrees. If you are actually running the tool say with the B axis at 90 degrees there can be variations in tool length in relation to the part. This can of course be corrected with fixture offsets or more than one tool offset.

[@Panzax1]

The tool eye on the machine is not accurate to tenths either. At least that's what the Mazak guys told me, and according to my experience it can vary by at least 2 thou. So I'd say your method is very good.

[@gredangeo]

This is why pre-settering is the best method. All the machines in the shop get referenced to one single pre-setter. If according to the machine you're working on, technically disagrees with what the height of the tool is, you just have to lie in the offset where the machine thinks the gage line is to your G54. Everything gets balanced out. The bonus aspect of this method, is that tools and their known heights can transfer from one machine to the next quite easily.

[@anonimov9107]

How did you enter -0.064" in just one move? ctrl + v?

[@EdgePrecision]

I made this video a long time ago. So I'm not sure what you are exactly referring to. But on the control you can put the entry mode into absolute or incremental. So I probably had it in incremental mode. This would add whatever number you entered. The control itself doesn't respond to key combinations like a computer would.

[@anonimov9107]

@@EdgePrecision I mean 5:01 Look at input form on the bottom in right corner of the screen. 1 Click and value appear

[@EdgePrecision]

@@anonimov9107 You cant see the incremental soft key. Its out of the frame in the lower left.

[@anonimov9107]

@@EdgePrecision ok thanks i didnt work on this kind of mazatrol, only simple t2, smart and fusion 630mt. I didnt even know about incremental softkey in mazatrol. Thanks from Poland!

[@Jay9999]

Does that machine have a tool eye

[@EdgePrecision]

Yes it does. It up high on the machine and difficult to use. Not having a extension pendent on the handle jog wheel makes it even harder. I can’t reach the jog wheel on the control and see the tool eye at the same time. It also has a laser tool setter but at this time there is a malfunction with it and I don’t want to spend the money to get it fixed. I can touch a tool off manually faster than tool probes. Also when touching off a tool manually I can see exactly where it is on the controls display.

[@Jay9999]

Makes sense. What is the square window for behind and above the tailstock?

[@coreyb4073]

it pisses the operators off that i can touch a tool off to .0005 in my swiss's by eyeball or touch. it just goes to show if you do things consistently with some practice you can achieve fine results with minimal tooling.

[@EdgePrecision]

Actually if you hold a white piece of paper with light on it behind the tool. Than carefully jog the tool till you see it touch. You will be within less than a .001" almost every time. Its just that you take the risk of marring the part if you go to far.

[@coreyb4073]

i have a matte aluminum plate that blocks my cross tools that gives me the contrast i need, with inserts i roll the spindle till i feel them touch since i almost always have facing stock. baby boing bars are a remove the dykem from a face/bore deal. turning tools on swisss get set by calling position and offset and pushing the toolup to the bar(good to .0005 usually)

[@pit3003]

Neanderthal..😁😁😁😁😁