Touring a Coptic Church to Learn About Coptic Worship

This is the second part of this series on the Coptic Orthodox Church. You can watch the first one here: • What Is The Coptic Chu...
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St. Paul's website: www.stpaulchicago.org/

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

Thank you all for watching a video like this, and thanks additionally to everyone who helped make it happen at patreon.com/tmbh

[@jhonvelez9598]

I'd like all priests do as James did, to take the time to explain and teach about the imagery, rites, parts of the liturgy, and clothes. And I'd like you try to get this same result from many other Christian churches as well as from other religions. I really like your videos, blessings from a catholic in Colombia.

[@jacksonhstudios4421]

You should really check out Matt Fradd on KZbin. He’s an Eastern Catholic, meaning he attends an Eastern Liturgy, but is in communion with Rome. He’s very ecumenical and has people from all over Christianity on.

[@manuelescoto100]

I apreciate talks like this to explain the early beliefs of the church and how today's protestantism deviates from all of that. I hope you can show us the next video where you talk to the catholic apologist. Thanks God bless you

[@Dreammaster695]

How come you never visit or post videos from the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

[@gilbertjones9157]

@@Dreammaster695It has been agreed to by those that examine theology of the Christian Faith and by comparison with other theologies from Roman Catholic; Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, Coptic, Ethiopian and others); and Reformation Protestant (Anglican, Calvinist, Lutheran and more) the theology of Salt Lake Mormons is polytheist (you can become like Adam) and negates the redemptive act of the cross by holding that the individual must do church approved rites and activities that are required to show that you have personal salvation-redemption over and above Christ's crucifixion. This is based on the reliance that the Prophet Joseph Smith was speaking to us for God. However, the book of Abraham he translated (prior to Egyptian Hieroglyphics being translated and known) has been shown to have not been translated anywhere close to it's translation to English from the papyrus scroll he had access to. If you go deeper into this you will not be able to keep your Latter Day beliefs and it will effect your relationships. I will pray for you and I hope one day I can greet you as my brother (or sister) in Christ Jesus. The Truth of the God of the living Abraham, Issac and Jacob (Israel) is found like being in the furnace of the silver smith, too much heat ruins the silver, but just the right amount will purge all the dross and other contaminating elements and will yield a pure silver. Silver in scripture is equal to mercy and redemption. May they be found in your heart when you leave this mortal coil, By the Grace of our Lord and Redeemer Jesus Christ, to the Glory of God the Father. [You have a lot to look through; as our faith has nearly 2000 years of history; the history of the LDS is just under 200 years and within that time those that claim J. Smith as their prophet have become a number of churches from Temple Lot to several non affiliated ones across the world] Don't put your hand to this plow unless you are truly desiring His Truth because for you He will bring a sword into your life. One last thing the Greek word for faith is a phrase = I am persuaded to your argument. It comes from historical Greek political discourse in the town square at mid day. If your faith is true it will be spot welded to an event or events and or a passage of scripture that will not allow your bond with that faith to break even at the point where you see your death coming and you will still be able to Praise God even though He slays you. Jesus said no one comes to the Father but by me. Else where, no one is presented to God the Father but by Jesus Christ. Jesus is the gate keeper and it is by his choice that those who are presented to the Father. The question is would Jesus choose you? I am persuaded that I can come and be present as Jesus has chosen me for I trust alone He paid my debt that I could never pay by Him paying that debt He Never owed, freely done and freely offered by his act of obedience to the will of the Father. Tetelestai the last word he spoke on the Cross - It is finished - or Paid In Full. 'Eternal Entity' is it for you? Being able to answer that question is Transformational no matter your starting point. It is story you can tell your grandchildren.

[@jesusdiscipledon1499]

“Everything is about Christ!” *All the Christians loved that*

[@jesusdiscipledon1499]

@Christian ex-muslim Please, elaborate.

[@sandradavid4026]

Amen! ✝️

[@YeshuaSaves3]

Except it’s not, they love to put Mary above Christ.

[@KT-vl9qc]

@@YeshuaSaves3 keep fooling ur self ...

[@YeshuaSaves3]

@@KT-vl9qc How? It’s evident in the imagery, in their prayers etc. the most common imagery is of a large Mary holding a baby Jesus. That speaks volumes. Jesus is not a baby anymore, He is exalted and high and lifted up! The other imagery is of Christ beaten on the cross which again is not accurate to His glorified state. Catholicism just isn’t Christian based biblically.

[@jongmagee]

As a catechumen of the Eastern Orthodox Church, I pray Lord Jesus to unite our churches once again.

[@Logan-tx3lk]

I wish

[@mtoohill]

We are getting closer to that day. Will it happen in our lifetime? I don't know but at least they're willing to talk to each other and lift the excommunications.

[@jongmagee]

@@mtoohill Yes! But now the Russian and Constantinople churches are now in a schism... 😔

[@eetuerrenor5757]

@@jongmagee But in creed Unity, so let's not be disapponted.

[@robertyianni3623]

jongmagee that’s just politics, don’t worry about it.

[@Mommyandtux]

This priest seems very down to earth and humble - Christlike.

[@brassmonkey84]

Makes me more interested in orthodoxy

[@brassmonkey84]

Why face east?

[@jgil1966]

Yes

[@danalaw4466]

@@brassmonkey84 Look for the ancient paths (Jeremiah 6:16) The Orthodox church is over 2000 years old... talk about authentic! Our whole protestant church converted to Orthodoxy 23 years ago... No turning back... We are Home.

[@stevenwilliam3305]

You face east bc we believe that the gates of heaven and Christ is towards the east. Yes I am a copt

[@Nighthawkinlight]

Man, I need to get out more. The symbolism in high church stuff is way more meaningful than I ever thought. Love what father James said at the end, this is all meant to get to our hearts. The outside is there for the inside. Great stuff

[@basicguy99]

NightHawkInLight I always love seeing big youtubers in these comments. It’s amazing the reach TMBH has without having a massive audience.

[@noahconstrictor100]

Interesting to see you here! But, yes, absolutely. As I learn more about the Bible, and try to understand more scripture, I come up with new connections to the Liturgy all the time. There's so much symbolism that I can never even hope to understand all of it, but I am very happy to have converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. Studying just the differences between Oriental Orthodoxy and Eastern Orthodoxy could take a lifetime.

[@cobrakai516]

That’s part of what drew me to become a Catholic. The deeper symbolism and everything that is done in the mass has a purpose.

[@cobrakai516]

@B R As a Roman Catholic I can safely and certainly say I am a Christian. If you actually did some research you would know the Catholic Church believes a lot of the same things Protestants do. The nicene creed is what is said at every mass and outlines the beliefs of the Catholic Church. “ I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.”if everything that is said in that creed which most Protestants agree on doesn’t make me a Christian according to your standards then you have no idea what it means to be a Christian.

[@azurephoenix9546]

Very short explanation but It's a tradition that is meant to be as the tradition of the temple, where the holy spaces were painted, decorated and set up in a way that was meant to make people think of the garden of eden where God and man were together and not separated. So, going with the idea that you will go to be in the presence of God in the church, the sanctuary and every aspect of the liturgical experience is meant to fully consume your human senses and fill them with things that are totally god-centered to get you in the frame of mind and heart to be prepared to be in the real presence of God, just as it was in the temple. The world outside and all of its accoutrements should be left at the door, because heaven is on the other side of the threshold, so all human sense should be flooded with God. If that makes sense.

[@joelancon7231]

"Is that Saint Peter?" "This is Paul." "He looks different than in Roman Catholicism" "And this is Jesus." "Him I recognize." 😂😂😂

[@anafrost4190]

The pictures are none of the above. There are no photographs of anybody. The pictures are a depiction of what the person creating them is imagining. Based on the area or region they came from and the race or ethnicity (including Jesus himself), we can imagine how they would have looked but a Paul here and a Paul there, across the world, is not going to look the same. I never like when Jesus is depicted blue-eyed with long blond hair, a Jewish man the son of a Palestinian woman. Think about it.

[@jmielke4341]

Ana Frost there’s no correct way to color his hair and eyes. Yes, he was from the Middle East, so you’re right, he probably looks Arab. But the reason there is so many different looks to Jesus is to try to make him look more personable and relatable.

[@ramezaziz2336]

@@anafrost4190 @Ana Frost coptic iconography is not about depicting the person. They could be stickmen for all we care. Each icon is a very carefully designed and delivered theological "power point" presentation. How people depicted actually looked like is not even in the ballpark.

[@sandradavid4026]

@@anafrost4190 That’s a very ignorant statement! Who said Jews and others from the Middle East can’t have those features!? My mother and uncle have green and blue eyes respectively and are Copts. My niece is also Egyptian/Mexican and has blue eyes and lighter hair.

[@Sancta.Aegyptus]

@@jmielke4341 I thought Paul was from turkey

[@athanasiusphilopatorismaxi389]

I'm a Copt, watching from Alexandria Egypt .

[@Sancta.Aegyptus]

Same!

[@shivenbechan]

May the lord bless your people

[@eatingchaos]

God love the Copts. They're such a resilient people.

[@Dewisant80]

And as the West was ascending into heresy the Copts revived orthodoxy in the West.

[@meetChrist]

“Blessed is Egypt My people...” Isaiah 19:25

[@dreamcat1201]

Love Jesus💓

[@janetprice85]

Amen! Strong Brothers and Sisters to have survived so long against great adversity.

[@Sancta.Aegyptus]

@@meetChrist ❤

[@jgil1966]

This priest was very humble and likeable, God bless Him.

[@jpnj9556]

100%

[@maherameen2362]

I had a bad impression from this priest. He’s not a man of his word.

[@AbanoubGhipriel]

"Why the best?" "Cause Christ is the best" Truth.

[@therealjlil]

@NBK Electro Thanos me too

[@sandradavid4026]

💯!!! ✝️🙏

[@frgabriely]

Loved this, thank you for sharing... Fr James you have done a wonderful service at introducing the richness of what we received as Coptic Orthodox Christians... Just thought to share, the 6 cloths on the altar remind us of the Seraphim with six wings in Isaiah 6 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one cried to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; The whole earth is full of His glory!” Isaiah 6:1‭-‬3 NKJV

[@ramezaziz2336]

Father James must have skipped this lesson in the monastery 😅

[@7wiiskate]

That is just a beautiful verse it got me excited just imagining the vision and the undescribable Greatness of our God. Glory be To His name and Power.

[@gilbertjones9157]

@@ramezaziz2336 Well one must remember that a lot of the information is learned over lifetime. Sometimes the marbles can escape. We have to collect and reinsert. Because they are round they let us know when we step on them.

[@kassabgi]

I like Fr James' explination about keeping out the flies. Much more likely to be closer to the truth.

[@frgabriely]

@@kassabgi 😂 not the covers, the 6 pieces under the plate...but i agree i loved what Fr James shared, there is so much richness and contemplations many of it is learned as you go... definitely not at the monastery... the time in the monastery is to reflect on the mission ahead, offer repentance, learn the actions needed to perform the liturgy.

[@motorcop505]

This priest is a perfect spokesman for his Coptic tradition. What a nice guy!

[@Black-lioness]

Ethiopian Orthodoxy

[@jjmichael5059]

@@Black-lioness coptic

[@Bellg]

@@Black-lioness Does he look Ethiopian to you?

[@Black-lioness]

@@Bellg totally no but we share the same practice as the Coptic Orthodoxies

[@awesome98rock]

@@Black-lioness The Ethiopia church used to be a part of the Coptic church. They followed the Coptic pope and their priests had to be venerated in Alexandria. So technically they’re more or less the same exact faith.

[@bluepoop7365]

I love how ur channel bring all christians together, so different than many other "christian" channel that condemn other christian congregations.

[@zacbrewer4368]

Roman Catholic checking in to show love. 🙏❤️

[@isiwaktu2525]

You are right

[@josueinhan8436]

"Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins." (NASB 1Pet 4:8) ""I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;" (NASB Jn 17:20-22) 🙂 Love you'all in Christ, my dear brethren. (Evangelical here.) Love you all, no matter if you are coptic, russian, syriac orthodox, or from any other expression from orthodoxy faith; love you'all roman catholics and protestants (reformed, baptists or pentecostals). Simply love you all!

[@Dilley_G45]

It's not about condemnation. Calling out false teachers is a command of the Lord. So it's right to call out televangelist, Charismatic, anti-trinitarians, JW, SDA, mormons etc... However small differences aren't reason to deny them being brothers in Christ. Roman Catholics, All Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans all affirm the trinity, sacraments etc. So we're still brothers

[@jasonmulderrig]

It is so cool learning about the Coptic Orthodox Church from Father James, who is so humble yet so richly in tune with the Coptic Orthodox tradition and the deep Christian theology it expresses. Super refreshing, keep up the good work Matt!

[@nobobonobo]

This priest seems like a cool dude

[@DaLuke101]

Just to add further about the continuity - if anyone had doubts - I'm a Coptic Orthodox Christian in Australia, and I recognise everything that Fr James has mentioned and we practice our liturgies practically the exact same way as he was telling Matt (including the preparation and packing of the altar, the congregation response he sung, the structure of the mass and the very layout of the church). This idea of continuity and orthodoxy is something we cherish as a gift from God, which is part of the reason why we continue to use Coptic, a dead language, in our liturgies and hymns. We still have our faith, practically unaltered, despite our separation for 1500 years and the persecution that our forefathers received due to Emperors and the Arab conquest of Egypt. Thank you so much, Matt and Fr James for giving us this series! It really makes me full of joy!! So keen for part 3 :)

[@TheTsar1918]

Is it true that it is very difficult to convert to Coptic Orthodoxy, because many within the community want to maintain an Egyptian heritage? I have considered reaching out and asking my nearest Coptic church if I could convert.

[@DaLuke101]

​@@TheTsar1918 Sorry for the late reply! Unfortunately, I reckon it depends on the church and the priest. Some can be more accommodating than others and in fact be dedicated to converts or those of non-Egyptian backgrounds. Other churches can have a strong focus on heritage and feel somewhat alienating with Arabic liturgies and close-knit communities which can be difficult to join. I would agree that reaching out would be the best approach and the priest should be willing and able to guide you :) Knowing some Australian converts at my church, it's definitely a process but thankfully they have had positive experiences with our community

[@truffle2676]

@@TheTsar1918 I know this is a very late reply but well, it really depends, many churches have an English service that is only English praises, one of the churches here in Victoria, Australia is a fully English Coptic church with over 31 different nationalities! Have you converted?

[@elysebuehrer4155]

I feel like there's something special about the Coptic clergy. I really notice not only their devotion and holiness, but also their humility and approachability. May God bless the Coptic church!

[@traildude7538]

I've encountered the same among Antiochene and OCA. Greeks and Russians in my experience have a heavy dose of arrogance.

[@maryamdee951]

Thank you for this beautiful work! I’m Coptic Orthodox and this video made me so proud and happy! Even as a Coptic, I learned SO much. I respect your inquisitive approach and that you took the time to visit the Coptic Orthodox Church and share it’s beauty.

[@mish375]

I find this really interesting. Given that the Coptic Church is the oldest denomination, you'd have a lot of amazing history to fall back on. Plus your traditions have been in place since close to the beginning.

[@mariambahgat398]

The Coptic Orthodox church is really beautiful and very spiritual, very Christ-centered. One of the most ancient churches in the whole world that was established by Saint Mark the Apostle. God bless 🙏🏼

[@MrTadfortitude]

Growing up Protestant and searching in my adult life for the church that I felt encompassed the fullness of the faith for me and my family, it took years and we finally found our home in the Eastern Orthodox Church 7 years ago. It changed our life and deepened our faith in ways words can't describe. Glory to God! Thank you for what you do Matt.

[@voievod9260]

Welcome home brother !

[@bebetonguga]

Thank you so much for this!!!! I'm catholic and I can see so much in common with this Tradition!!! Your daughter is the best hostess!!!

[@pyrovania]

Orthodox, also traditionalist Anglican as well. It used to all be the same church. And in a way, it still is.

[@MrJlin1982]

Juan,Check the Armenian Apostolic one, the is even closer to catholosism

[@anafrost4190]

The Coptic Church IS the Catholic Church, it is just not the Roman Catholic rite.

[@MrJlin1982]

@@anafrost4190 its not, its a church standing on its own, like the Armenian-apostolic one

[@betsycardenas952]

@@anafrost4190 There is a Coptic Catholic church, but this is a Coptic Orthodox church.

[@QueenTiye54]

What I find amazing here is that when I visited a Jewish Synagogue, the practice of reading Torah is so similar - it speaks to the continuity between Christianity and Judaism. Fascinating.

[@cindyb5065]

Jesus was Jewish so it stands to reason so much of what is practiced in Christianity has roots in Judaism. You should watch Dr Brant Pitre’s talk on the subject.

[@QueenTiye54]

@Paul Mitchell Well, what I was speaking on was the commonality of liturgical approach.

[@violetrose740]

@Paul Mitchell ؟

[@gracemorganspeaks]

Love God. Whoever is reading this God is more than able and nothing is impossible He loves you so much dont give up.

[@rafaelcarbone1387]

Thank you. I can/t hear this enough.

[@mish375]

God Bless you for such a kind comment. Been going through extended family stuff that's causing a good deal of anxiety, so I find those words comforting.

[@tubinho79]

Thank you, I really needed to hear that. God bless you as well.

[@Slowrex123]

Greetings to everyone from Coptic Orthodox Church 🇪🇬 JESUS IS THE KING OF KINGS AND OUR SAVIOUR AMEN 🙏

[@alanjohns_415]

Amen

[@seanquigley2748]

I love it how everything has a purpose, practical or spiritual

[@grvity33]

That is the essence of Orthodox liturgical worship.

[@ChristopherSajdak]

It's worth mentioning that Orthodox worship has its roots in 2nd temple worship, that's the reason why the prayers and structure of liturgics is so similar between all the Oriental and Eastern communions. Syrians even call their liturgy "qurban", which means sacrifice in Syro-aramaic. Not to mention that the prayers have a very Judaic structure in themselves. Not to mention that the vestments are taken straight out of the book of Exodus. I could go on and on and on ..

[@mariaabbi1307]

Please do, I'm a member of the Hebrew Roots movement and I really don't see much content on the correlations between the Orthodox Church and Messianic synagogue.

[@a.tekestetesfamariam2218]

Hmm...we say qurban too. Eritrean here

[@PavloKobzar]

@@mariaabbi1307 he was talking about temple worship, not synagogal. Modern Judaism has no priesthood but traditional Christianity has it. Synagogal worship is closer to Protestant.

[@LB_die_Kaapie]

Umm I'm pretty sure that all the Catholic/Orthodox structure of the Mass and garments worn etc. Come from Jewish tradition..

[@ChristopherSajdak]

Not all, there have been some slight modifications, but nothing ground breaking. That is, if we're talking about Eastern Orthodox liturgics. Orthodoxy does a much better job being faithful to the Tradition of the Fathers than the West, especially after V-2 took place.

[@benjaminlquinlan8702]

I attend Latin Mass in Ireland here ...it makes so much more sense that we all face God, rather than we all face the priest. I don't speak Latin but it makes actual sense to be versus English spoken mass. I read the Bible in English and experience the Bible at mass

[@Another_Caesar]

How does it make more sense in latin? If anything shouldn't it be in aramaic or greek if you want to go that far back

[@wilts43]

@@Another_Caesar History! Most Catholics belong to "The Latin Rite" (which has a tradition of Latin in Liturgy). But there are other rites which are fully part of The Catholic Church & in communion with Rome. Some use other Liturgical languages I believe and Iraqi Catholics use Syriac in the Liturgy _which is indeed a form of Aramaic_ although their vernacular is Arabic. Just personally, as another Catholic in Ireland, I prefer English even though I served the Latin Mass as a boy in the '50's.

[@costakeith9048]

@Nehemia Nicholas But Rome actually used Greek in their liturgy up until around the 8th century. The switch to Latin came quite late.

[@costakeith9048]

@Nehemia Nicholas Looking it up, I was a bit off, it was around the 4th century that Rome switched from Greek to Latin (The Church at Prayer, Collegeville, 1992). But, still, my fundamental point remains the ancient liturgical language of Rome was Greek as is attested to both by St. Justin Martyr and The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus.

[@markhorton3994]

As Paul said about praying in tongues: If you use a tongue your soul benefits, if you understand what you are saying your mind benefits as well.

[@JM-or6de]

I love the fact that the entire mass if focused entirely on Christ and not so much on the Priest.

[@FullOfMalarky]

Devine liturgy would be more correct. But yeah, I admire orthodox and eastern catholic liturgies and wish the Catholic Church would return to the TLM as standard

[@traildude7538]

Something not mentioned was the vestments. Fr. James pointed out that they are all custom-fit to the individuals who wear them. I've heard radicals criticize this as vanity, having everyone's robes fit perfectly, but the opposite is true: I've been to churches where the robes were generic and people could tell they didn't all fit well, which means that poorly fitting robes are a distraction from worship. When every vestment is custom-fitted, they don't get different attention, they all fit the people wearing them and thus serve as what they're supposed to be, a covering that declares that the priest is nothing of himself, he is a stand-in for Jesus and so individuality is covered to remind people that Jesus is the center. So-called non-denominational preachers too often try to impress by how they dress, which is a form of idolatry because they're drawing attention to themselves!

[@tianna15c]

Greetings and love from the Indian Orthodox church!

[@StoleBearer]

Awesome video! I am melkite Greek Catholic, but I have a huge respect for my Coptic brothers. I have many Coptic friends. May God bless them.

[@qwertywillbecool]

First! Your daughter is adorable btw

[@willtheperson7224]

Agree!

[@pkmcnett5649]

Ditto

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

She absolutely delights me. Thank you for saying that!

[@ramezaziz2336]

Fact

[@alphinjosephchackochan8906]

@@MattWhitmanTMBH I would love to see you visit and interview an Armenian Church, an Assyrian Church of East and a Maronite Church

[@Andyelmasry]

I'm Coptic Christian, and I thought I knew a lot about the liturgy, but I learned SO MANY new things through this video! Your video isn't only an introduction to non-Coptic orthodox Christians, it's also wonderfully educational for us Copts as well! THANK YOU!

[@febavarghese8227]

He sent you a prayer rope, that is so wonderful!

[@baoduong2203]

I can see so many similarities between the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church and the traditional Latin mass of the Catholic Church. It’s quite beautiful to see the richness of all of this.

[@daveunbelievable6313]

@xtreme survival they are like pieces of a puzzle! the Nestorians from Persia, the oriental orthodox from Egypt, Armenia, syria and ethiopia, Eastern orthodox from the byzantines (now greeks) and catholicism from Rome.

[@miodragmarinkovic5202]

@@daveunbelievable6313 Nope. We (Eastern Orthodoc Church/Greek,Russian,Serbian,Georgian...) are not pieces of same puzzle whit Nestorians,oooo noooo.

[@daveunbelievable6313]

​@@miodragmarinkovic5202 im not saying they are doctrinally right or that we are all one today, but that the traditional christian groups can be seen as geographic break offs from each other like catholicism in the west and orthodoxy in the east.

[@daveunbelievable6313]

so the nestorians and oriental orthodox split during Chalcedon and later rome and Constantinople split off from each other during the great schism

[@daveunbelievable6313]

i also just mentioned nestorianism because its a group that still survives, which like the others split off among geographic lines, obviously they were much more heretical than others

[@justmike75]

Hey, thanks for these videos. As a lifelong Christian, I have appreciated ‘how’ you approach your content; not defensively or cynically but with honest curiosity and empathy coming from your own faith/testimony. Thanks.

[@rachelshearer2322]

Your daughter is so cool! I love her Fleetwood Mac shirt

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

Yes! She’s a big fan!

[@rachelshearer2322]

The Ten Minute Bible Hour she’s got great taste!

[@aconwell9]

ha! I was about to comment the same thing, then saw your post! :)

[@alphinjosephchackochan8906]

@@MattWhitmanTMBH I would love to see you visit and interview an Armenian Church, an Assyrian Church of East and a Maronite Church

[@mino2561]

I am proud of my coptic orthodox church and I am glad that the tour has benefits to us we Christians should learn more about other denominations and we pray for the church to be one again. 🙏

[@curlyhead94]

I can confirm that everyone knows when you've been to church by the smell on incense on you and if you catch your friend early enough after they've been to mass, they may even share their piece of bread with you :))

[@DianaHerberg]

For your sake I'll assume you mean part of the bagel that was served with the coffee

[@minaehab5961]

@@DianaHerberg It's a blessing bread given out after communion and it's not the eucharistic bread, the Eucharist is given out entirely with no leftovers

[@romarictekem2068]

Proud to be a Christian ☦️=❤️

[@amirakhoshaba6345]

I converted to Coptic Orthodox Church was re baptized me and my mother who was in her mid 8’s she passed away 6 months ago. We used to belong to Assyrian nasturtiun heresy church from Canada 🇨🇦 the most beautiful church you lots of fasting lots of services during the week keep you Connect with God all the time. Like father James said on Saturday evening prayers we called in Arabic (Tesbeha) mean praise.

[@mt6725]

Grace and Peace to you. Thank you Matt for your humble and thoughtful approach to the Coptic Orthodox Church. I read a lot of the comments and I hope its okay I give a small reply here. I attended St. Paul's Coptic Orthodox Church for 3 years when I lived in Wisconsin. My husband, 3 kids, and I would drive 1.5 hours each way to pray liturgy with Fr James. He is as genuinely kind as he appears. As you mentioned, the Coptic Orthodox Church is a 1st century church, that is from our Lord Jesus Christ, and was evangelized to by St. Mark, the Gospel-writer. (Coptic meaning Egyptian, Orthodox meaning "straight/true" "dogma"). We believe in One God (Nicene Creed)- the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). We ONLY worship God, not icons, etc ... they are merely giving us a visual of how God worked in the OT, NT, and through the Saints/Martyrs so we continue to look toward our eternal goal rather than get distracted by earthly goals/pleasures. Yes, we do have a lot of rituals and traditions, but to affect depth of personal worship, not to be venerated in of themselves. Traditions are not bad in of themselves, infact, the Bible was a tradition, same with the Early Church. For example, the Christian Church started with Christ; however, the first New Testament book wasn't written until at least 45 A.D. which would mean over a decade without the written NT Scripture. Anyway, I'm so joyful to see this series b/c as many of you said it, I also hope for the unity of all Christ's children!!! God bless you, your family, your service!

[@jl8138]

"So these aren't other deities?" I know that was a question essentially asked on behalf of the median uninitiated Evangelical Christian, but it's so sad that it needs to be asked. It speaks to so many unfortunate realities, chiefest among them: 1. The ease with which people groups draw uninformed conclusions about each other 2. The lack of discussion the Orthodox Church in the US has sought with the broader Christian culture As a seminary educated former Evangelical who's now Eastern Orthodox, I lament those two realities, but I'm appreciative of people like Matt and Fr James who are doing their small parts to transcend them.

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

If it makes you feel any better, I asked that question for the benefit of people who are external to Christianity altogether.

[@wilts43]

But sadly there is, within Protestant Tradition, a very strong thread (think Chick Tracts) of actively being taught to *_Look & misinterpret_* I suppose this must always be there, beneath the surface, & even necessary. If you don't "misinterpret" you might view sympathetically (as Matt does very well) .....but then you might wonder why you are *"Protesting"* at all? If the "old, Apostolic religion" was OK ; why have you jumped off the Mother-Ship? So you must beforce look back at the mother-ship from your raft & find fault with her; it's essential, & mis-interpretation serves this. As a Catholic I see a terrible one-way-street here. Misinterpretation of Catholicism can be wholesale in Protestantism (Matt is a glowing exception). I am a Theology Graduate & I just don't see Catholics doing doing the reverse.

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

Respectfully, I think your perspective is incomplete on this. I see ignorance, superstition and lack of charity from corners of all the camps, and Catholics give at least as much as they get. Thankfully, most of what I encounter from all expressions of Christianity is thoughtful and gracious.

[@mish375]

@@MattWhitmanTMBH Well said, Matt. I'm Protestant myself and I find your channel refreshing because I too have seen hate and misinformation across all camps. You're doing a great thing by trying to help us all be educated about how we celebrate God and Jesus no matter which church we attend. 🙏💒

[@mish375]

@@wilts43 You are, in fact, misinterpreting all of Protestantism by making that assumption. I've seen hate from all corners, Catholics are not exempt from this. How about instead of making assumptions about each other, we follow Matt's example and actually learn about each other instead? Satan wants to divide us based on our differences. But God should unite us.

[@therealamariahnock]

I can totally relate to growing in appreciation for the use of all the senses in the more high church traditions. I'm finding it more and more strange how many protestant churches can be so fearful or judgemental of these practices.

[@JohnnyUmphress]

I must admit, being a Baptist, that I too was judgemental of these practices until I watched this video. Now I have a better understanding. And this is one of the main reasons unbelievers have such a problem with "Church".

[@therealamariahnock]

@@JohnnyUmphress yes, I can totally relate. The funny thing is I grew up in a pentecostal tradition. In hindsite I feel like pentecostals have way more things that could cause someone to raise an eyebrow of concern than all this deeply theological symbolism of many other traditions. I'm so enjoying learning more about other branches of the Christian family tree as Matt has called it. I love that phrasing reminding us we are one family, even if parts might be fractured and broken.

[@sharinglovewithtavo.9190]

@@therealamariahnock wow this is becoming a song and it goes round and round and round☺☺☺

[@gilbertjones9157]

I grew up in the Roman Church before the change from Latin. I was many times the alter boy at the 6am daily mass. I left that church over the issue of the congregation getting only the wafer/host while the priest drank from the challis. I am a believer from the Jesus moment in the late 1960's. I have over the years been a member of various churches because I was not brought to salvation by a denomination and have attended a lot of different services, including a Quaker one where no one spoke. I am a universal believer. I found my home in the Anglican communion as it was the English version of an old Latin mass. The Anglicans have three traditions from Low church, Broad church to High church (known as smells and bells). Low church the minister is address as Mr.; Pastor or Sir, a service that is very low key (songs sermon and readings). A Broad church has some of the activities of a High church service with no smells or bells but all the others like vestments and kneeling. A High church will have all the activities like a Greek Orthodox except wafers like the Roman church. A Broad church also has Morning prayers instead of a communion service. Again with some of the same activities like the Greek but more in line with the English monastic traditions. One of the books from an Anglican source (whom I have forgotten) was about the Roman Catholic faith of the last 6 (I believe) nuns, several with family ties to the royal house of France, who died on the guillotine the last day it was used during the French Revolution. It is not widely known that these nuns had prayed a long time before they chose to voluntarily walk to their death as means to stop the killing. After the second nun lost her head the assembled crowd stopped cheering. Each nun prayed softly as they walked to the killing spot and while waiting for the blade to drop. By the time of the death of the 4 nun the crowd began to disperse. The last nun was the sister to King Louis. There were very very few left to witness her death. These nuns had prayed that their deaths would be like a sacrifice to God so that there would be an end to this madness. When the blade dropped on the last, the executioner was crying uncontrollably and never again acted as an executioner. The Terror ended that day. I do not hold to the veneration of Mary or any saint. My faith is centered on Christ alone. I have heard other stories of faith like the missionaries defended by angles at a mission station during the Mou Mou Revolt (sic) or the Suffering Church in communist countries by Rev Wormbrand or the acts of faith by Brother Andrew smuggling bibles into the USSR and now China. The faith is alive in the Assyriac Church in Iraq and Syria. And as of today many in Turkey, Iran, Israel and Egypt are finding that they have faith in Jesus Christ. I have also heard that there was prior to 2000 a prophetic message given to the Coptic Church that they would have a time of suffering but when it is lifted the Coptic Church would have grown exponentially (possibly becoming the majority of the population). I don't know if we live in the 'end times'. I have hear that phrase since 1969 and we are still here. I do know that when Christ returns to claim His Bride, we will be again one church - triumphant.

[@therealamariahnock]

@@gilbertjones9157 dude what does this have to do with my original comment???

[@Nornagest84]

The intro was really awesome! And the rest of the video too. These are so helpful to understand brothers in other confessions better. Tank you very much and God bless you and your family! 😊🙏

[@JohnnyUmphress]

That was interesting. I enjoy knowing about the beliefs and service orders of other denominations. Our church has been purchasing premade wafers used for communion from a church supply company. Recently our Pastor's wife decided to research the ingredients of these wafers and discovered they were made leven in them. Now she bakes them herself for our service.

[@traildude7538]

I'm really saddened by the use of generic, manufactured individual wafers. I really like what a Lutheran Church down the street did; the ladies bake a huge round sheet of bread that they half-way chop into diamond shapes before it's finished baking, which makes it really easy to break off individual pieces. There are a few larger diamonds, four of the smaller ones together, big enough to have various symbols (very much like the four on the one vestment) imprinted.

[@christfollower5713]

Am Coptic Orthodox but i love the Catholic icons and statues more , our Coptic Church in Egypt many of them filled with Catholic European art style of icons 😂❤❤

[@joonie8103]

Hahaha 😂 i loved the the coptic icons also wished they focus on it ...fortunately my church is all in coptic icons 😄hope the all the new churches have the coptic icons as preference

[@christfollower5713]

@@joonie8103 i hope all new Churches make Catholic or European style of icons and also statues 😂😂 Statues and Icons of the Western art u feel they r real and beautiful when u look at Mary or one of the saints , but Coptic icons i dont feel its a real person lol , not realistic hahahha

[@joonie8103]

@@christfollower5713 i feel like lots of people like realistic art styles ..i m not one of them at all 😂i prefer art to be unrealistic in general not just when it comes to icons ..i actually feel mad when someone draw super realistic drawing instead of feeling inspired or like it😂..i actually prefer coptic than byzantine icons they more more symmetrical and i like the calm expressions but all icons have the same idea and symbolism ..i like the gothic style but i prefer that our church have its own identity since i already like the coptic icon more than any gives me at home feeling also feeling of simplicity ,calmness and real presence 😃

[@christfollower5713]

@@joonie8103 yes but i dont like when they r depicted in a film 😂😂 like dont use real humans and actors for Jesus and others because i dont feel it... 😂 Coptic icons dont express much , some draw the person angry in it without reason 😂 but when u draw him or her , with humble facial features and colorful becomes more realistic , expressive and beautiful 😍😂

[@la.x-neverthedodgers]

@@christfollower5713 I love our Lady Of Al Warraq. That was a STRONG confirmation that she loves you guys 🤗 Greetings from a Catholic. Btw what's the name of Coptic icons, just to make sure if they're "angry" as what you said 😁✌

[@lynettemeaker5202]

There is a joy that wells up in my spirit when I watch these videos. I truly love your curious and sincere approach to learning about different expressions of our Christian faith. And "expressions of faith" is a phrase I learned from watching you through these videos. It has opened my heart and mind to really listen to people who essentially believe the same things I do, but worship in a different way and allows me to appreciate and even admire those differences. We really do have more in common than many of us realize. What a different world we could be living in now if more people would take time to listen to one another like this.

[@jgil1966]

Loved learning about the coptic church. Really hope relations between her and the Roman and Eastern church will eventually be reconciled.

[@traildude7538]

Rome has a lot to repent for if unity is to be restored.

[@labsquadmedia176]

Matt, I really appreciated your wrap up on this video, particularly the recognition of the Transcendent One behind continuity throughout the family of God.

[@duenge]

YOU....are one of my favorite channels...Bless your work!...

[@jillutley7575]

This is a downright fascinating video! Thank you so much for exploring in detail, and I'm grateful that the priest was so patient and willing to answer so many questions in detail!

[@braddonison2130]

Hay Matt, many thx for your vary gracious treatment here. I think you breed an openness and bring ease and comfort to all of these kinds of topics and curiosities. My family has been Eastern Orthodox going back many generations, Romanian Orthodox to be specific. The similarities of this Coptic church to Eastern Orthodox is very striking. Looking forward to watching more from you. And yes I agree, that intro was gr8 and you should do whatever you must to get her under contract with you for the TMBH. :D Blessings, Brad

[@gregwilliams2928]

I love you Channel thank you for being so positive and honest and open about what you believe and where you stand it's easy to watch your videos I've recently started listening to your podcast and your daughter looks exactly like you keep doing God's work stay strong in the faith brother

[@pierremeshreky4331]

Honestly its so uplifting to see you go to other church and other theologies but be so respectful and always illustrating the good, God bless you sir

[@poorrichlives3727]

I have enjoyed all of your interviews, but this was just next level. He explained things so beautifully. When he was at the alter explaining the prayers, and traditions of how they prepare and take the body and blood, I was just so moved. Thank you so much for this video and knowledge, I wouldn't have as easy access to without your videos! And I'm so glad you ask ALL the questions. You're relentless with your questions 🤣 and I'm always so glad when you keep digging for more and more info to make a more clear picture for us!

[@David-my3uu]

Fantastic! I love the deep symbology of this church in every aspect of their service - I see where it connects and engages a congregant to all they are there for, worshiping the Lord. Certainly one of your best and credit to the priest for his wonderful, humble, and thorough explanations. I learned a LOT!!

[@salahsedarous7616]

You are a blessed person with a godly heart. Thank you for this

[@applin121]

Father James is a top bloke, so inspirational and so humble. Thanks

[@janemoore7326]

Thank you so much. I enjoyed watching. I also think that the Coptic priest was very kind to let you into the church with the camera and explain their traditions.

[@duffysullivan2794]

Well done by all involved! Held my attention through out. My first exposure to the Coptic tradition. Thank you for sharing Fr. James!

[@vilyat7]

The link to your first video was sent to me by my aunt who was Roman Catholic and is now is a member of the Coptic faith and church. I am Anglican and very open to spirituality. This was a very interesting journey with you and Fr. James. Many of the symbols and parts of the liturgy are similar to our worship practice and it was refreshing and engaging to listen to the conversation. My aunt had said that she found the worship profoundly real and engaging and that she intended to become a member of the faith...I now see why.

[@Renvere]

*sniff* “You been to church?” Literally is exactly what happens. Whenever I light incense at home, my kids are like “Mom it smells like church in here.” 🤣

[@Renvere]

And the prayer rope you received is like a rosary, you count the knots, and with every knot say the Jesus Prayer: “Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” And we call it a cross, crucifix, whichever. Both terms are interchangeable in Orthodoxy. At least in my parish 🤣

[@hebasamuel1843]

Where do you get the incense from?

[@Renvere]

Heba Samuel We have an incense burner with charcoal brickettes. You can get raw rock frankincense on Amazon. Or you can always purchase from a monastery like Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Massachusets

[@hz3917]

@@hebasamuel1843 Holy Cross Monastery in Wayne, WV makes really nice incense

[@sgtbaker81]

Thank you! I'm glad that he opened the bundle. What a beautiful ritual.

[@saraanic9436]

This was awesome! What a delightful priest. Can't wait for part 3!

[@leonabrawne200]

I really enjoyed this video. That priest had such a godly presence about him. He seemed so kind and was able to explain his church very well.

[@Apriluser]

Icons are family pictures of those saints that have already joined the great cloud of witnesses. It is like pictures any of us would have in our homes of our family members.

[@peredequatre]

I love this series so far on the Coptic Orthodox. One of your best. Can't wait till Part 3.

[@Thestephouse1]

Just discovered this channel....I am so humbled....thank you...each time I pray the lords prayer now the eyes of my heart see a little more because of what I'm learning ❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@isaiahhuerta9505]

I like this. it'd be fun to go to a coptic church once in a while. (after quarantine D; )

[@dimesonhiseyes9134]

Do not hesitate to go to church even during quarantine. Worshiping the father in his house is one of the most important things that we can do as Christians

[@LB_die_Kaapie]

Fun?! 🙄

[@dimesonhiseyes9134]

@@LB_die_Kaapie going to other churches and experiencing new traditions is fun. Worshiping with new brothers and sisters is fun. Learning new things is fun.

[@suite701]

We'd love to have you!

[@silverjones2317]

Go to one that uses English in its liturgy

[@samirmohareb1610]

Blessed are all who conduct this holy analysis of Coptic Mass and our brethren and sisters on this channel.

[@cindymurten6000]

I am totally enjoying this. It is so lovely to learn about this. Thank you so much for going out and getting this for us to learn about this. It only proves that God is always there.

[@chai__tea]

Matt, your videos are amazing. What you are doing with these videos is such a gift to the body of Christ. It's so awesome to see the beauty of the different expressions and experiences within Christianity. Thaaaaaaanks for making this accessible for a broad audience through KZbin!

[@marinaboutrossalama1096]

As a Coptic Orthodox Christian, I'm so happy to watch this video :) Thank you for asking such amazing questions as to why we have certain symbols and traditions; it is all to prepare and remind our hearts of the sacredness of the Holy Body and Blood of Christ. Not only that but praying the Liturgy with our brothers and sisters in Christ and praising God together is such a joyful experience. In our Midnight praises, sung the evening before a Liturgy, we begin by singing, "Arise, O you children of the Light and let us praise the Lord of hosts; that He may grant us the salvation of our souls." May God bless this channel, I love watching and learning! :)

[@NotHisRealName]

Father James has such an enthusiasm, it's great to see and makes me want to visit a Coptic Church one day to experience, and take part in worshipping God in this way.

[@AlanWoodardwoodisgood]

Beautiful! Thank you so much for this series!

[@sarabockenstedt9237]

I love this series. It is interesting to see how different denominations still share so much in the liturgy. I appreciate the respect and honest curiosity you have for other churches.

[@jongmagee]

Yes!!!! I've been waiting for this vid to come out since the first one!!!

[@voievod9260]

Im Eastern Orthodox from Romania. I pray and hope our Orthodox sister churches unite in communion again !

[@andrewlemlyn7643]

I really appreciate all of your videos where you guide us in learning about other traditions of the Christian faith. I am so impressed by your ability to have congenial, open and truthful dialogue with folks from all over the Christian spectrum. Thank you for your work.

[@ongtaongta]

Amazing video... May God rewards & bless Fr. & interviewer!

[@stutterstudios4731]

I become discouraged that there’s so many different denominations and so much conflicting information within Christianity, but I’m glad there’s positive people like Mr. Matt, that get joyful over the similarities. Thanks for this video and your service to God🙏🏼💙 your daughter is a rockstar too

[@margoh3415]

This is lovely ! I enjoy and learn so much from each Church you have visited and explained to us . What connects all of us Christians Is the believe in the Holy Trinity . FATHER , SON AND HOLLY SPIRIT ! 🙏 🙏 🙏

[@Migz2682]

He was so excited to show you everything. He showed so much humbleness and reverance to everything

[@ZZZELCH]

How beautiful. Loved the Fathers’ humility and explanations. I’m very thankful your channel is showing the rest of us all the different expressions of the faith. -Your Orthodox brother in Christ.

[@Scotter727]

These videos continue to warm my heart. I hope you're able to continue doing them for years and years. It must be so much fun and enlightening to get to tour all these churches and talk to these wonderful people. What you're doing here is so very important. As many others have said, there are many misconceptions and so much bad information out there. I'm someone who started Free Will Baptist, went Non-Denominational, went to Southern Baptist and now Catholic. Our walks with Christ are a journey and He takes us down roads we don't always (or even often) expect. Part of my mission in my spiritual life is doing exactly what you do with these videos, Matt. There is so much more that unites us than divides us. "It's all about Christ" as the priest said. Jesus promised that he would always be with His church and Jesus always keeps His promises. We live in a world that is literally hellbent on attacking our faith and we must stand together in the light of Christ to face it. That means bringing His love out into that world and spreading His Gospel. How can we do that if we cannot love one another as Brothers and Sisters in Christ? That doesn't mean there aren't disagreements and debates. But we can do those things in love. That's what these videos are! Let's all take Matt's example here and run with it! We can show this weary, hurting world what the love of God looks like! Thank you, Matt and may God continue to bless your work.

[@Balloonhead-dn6sm]

Exactly. I believe at the end of the day the world is against all Christians and whoever loves our Lord Jesus Christ is an enemy to the world.

[@artbird309]

I am loving the detail on this series, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

[@davidquiles7806]

Father James is awesome! Thank you for sharing your service rituals. I love the reverance you have for your service. I love the way it's about Christ and only Christ.

[@aconwell9]

Both the videos on this topic have been fascinating - thank you! I have learned so much.

[@TNT40ful]

I can wait to see a video with the Catholic latin mass, everything in this liturgy is so different. We can learn a loot.

[@jacobc6556]

I find it really cool the many similarities of Eastern liturgies with the Traditional Latin Mass. I think an episode visiting an FSSP or ICKSP parish would make a great episode. Could even ask about the similarities between TLM and Eastern liturgies versus how the Novus Ordo Mass was designed in part in hopes of reconciling more Protestants to Catholicism. How the Novus Ordo affects chances for reconciling the Eastern Churches I think is an interesting question too.

[@leinadster]

Agreed. Next stop should be St Francis De Sales Oratory in St. Louis, MO.

[@joshuaknight2019]

Joshua张志鸿 no it didn’t. The Coptic rite is much older.

[@limen5442]

@@leinadster Second going to de Sales in St. Louis. The counter cultural experience will be equally jaw dropping. And oddly, St. Louis is home to a number of wonderful Eastern Sects as well... We visited the Copts there for evening prayer. Lovely people.

[@lukababu]

Father mentioned in the beginning he was doing the liturgy according to St. Basil, so this is Byzantine "rite"

[@joshuaknight2019]

Luka Iremadze it’s a different liturgy of st basil. It is not the same as the Byzantine liturgy of st basil.

[@mch241]

Fantastic video! I learned so much! What a wonderful priest! Thanks so much Matt, great interviews!

[@jahintx]

Not knowing anything at all about the Coptic Church, I'm fascinated with these videos. Thanks, Matt, for taking time to do this and for asking those questions that I might ask if I had the opportunity.

[@julianbarcega]

I love your videos. I learn a lot about the diversity of the Body and your takes on some discussions.

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

Thanks Julian!

[@dafilro]

Next you should speak with Fr. Michael O’Loughlin, a Byzantine Catholic priest, and possibly sister Natalia, a Byzantine Catholic nun.

[@mikkis668]

a shout out for sister Natalia! Such a lovely person... with the most beautiful smile. 🤗

[@Georgios1821]

There is no byzantine,there is only roman,there was no byzantium there was only Rome from Augustus on 27bc to Constantine XI on 1453ad the diference is that there is the early empire with Augustus and the later empire with Constantine the Great

[@mikkis668]

@@Georgios1821 There is the Greek Byzantine Catholic Church. There are Eastern Churches in full communion with the Catholic Church. So, within the CC you can find 6 different Rites (liturgical traditions). One is called the Byzantine Rite.

[@belakovacs7013]

Watching much Matt Fradd lately?

[@dafilro]

Bela Kovacs yeah he should have him on too lol

[@stephencapitelli4967]

Matt, thanks for all the insightful and respectful videos you make of various Christian traditions. It's so much better and different than much of what passes itself off as Christian on the internet.

[@Apriluser]

Such a level of reverence, thoughtfulness, and fullness in liturgical churches. Thank you for interviewing various church expressions but particularly the liturgical churches. Liturgical churches are like fine dining - beautiful presentation, delicious, nutritious, costly. And we can “dine” at this feast every week. Thanks be to God.

[@nyakanyasko]

Wow! This is so fascinating! I totally want to go to a Coptic liturgy one day. It looks so beautiful and packed with meaning!

[@rjzah]

Love these videos, and to see how other denominations work and the importance of all they do. Yes, EVERYTHING is about Christ!

[@clarelantern]

Your daughter did excellent job on introducing the video. Loving your video. Loving different perspectives and perhaps traditions we have within Christian families.

[@TinaICXCNIKA]

What a REALLY GENEROUS 'tour' he gave you which I (for one), am so grateful!