Toxic Mormon Family Systems - Ari and Adam | Ep. 1630

[@outwardbound2241]

I'm only half way through (at the wedding day) but here's what I think: you two should get married again. At a wonderful location, with an awesome speaker, in your dream wedding dress, with the most beautiful wedding photos and surrounded only by people who deeply love and support you. To celebrate your incredible love and strength and because you are wonderful people who deserve to have an amazing wedding day

[@pieshmoo]

Yes, agreed!

[@trembletea]

I was thinking the same thing! It could be a renewal of vows, something like that.

[@hairthere9802]

I was thinking this too! I want her to have a beautiful wedding day or via renewal memory. ❤️

[@vainglory5346]

I totally agree. It's heartbreaking that Arise wedding day was the worst day of her life. A vow renewal sounds exactly like what the doctor ordered. Make it beautiful and happy, and don't even tell any of the people who ruined the original wedding day.

[@patricianoel7782]

AND DANCE!!!❤️

[@fifthgencanuck8663]

The pure anguish in Ari’s voice breaks my heart, how anyone can cause such trauma to her is gut wrenching 😰 thank you, Adam and John for supporting her to speak her truth and to help a larger audience contemplate the toxic narcissistic family/church system. Sending you all much love from Canada 🍁

[@marthashepherd341]

Gentle Blessings to You Both. You are very Brave ❤🙏❤

[@dianethulin1700]

LOL! The Wall of Fame! I have been divorced since 1995 but The Wall at moms still shows my married identity. We never get to bust out of the chrysalis as a butterfly and be our transformed selves. Forever a picture on The Wall of Fame. Maintain those bragging rights!

[@jeannemarie5908]

Wow .. that’s so bad, her parents pushing him to go on a mission. Wow, talk about not knowing boundaries. Just wow.

[@IamMrKatz]

I’m just watching this a year after it was released and all the issues with Jenn. Looking at Jenn now, her input is all about herself and not out of concern for Ari. I’m glad Jenn is no longer with MS. And my heart goes out to Ari and Adam.

[@ArtizenVintageCharm]

Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents was the book that finally helped me understand my mother and helped me really heal from her. She doesn't totally fit a narcissist, but she fits an emotionally immature parent

[@kellypetruso8484]

So brave to share her story. I hope she continues to go to therapy and heal.

[@truecrimenwine489]

I also wonder if Ari's mum was so anti the marriage because she was the punching bag, the scapegoat. The person she could get everyone against and feel good about the hate towards her as everyone agreed. The marriage ment she was no longer in the house to be that scape goat and the person everyone could unite against.

[@lc5666]

"Narcissists are high on speculative thought -- of drawing conclusions based on limited information" 🤯🤯🤯 so true. The narratives they create. And the way the narratives always cast you in the darkest, nastiest way possible.

[@abzee14]

It almost seems to me like in Ari's situation, her mom would have been abusive with or without the Mormon church. However, because her family did happen to be Mormon, her mom suddenly had one of the most powerful emotionally manipulative weapons in her arsenal. It's another reason why the teachings of the Mormon church are so potentially dangerous. I do my best not to blame Mormons as individuals, but rather Mormonism as a whole. In this case, you have Mormonism (the institution) being used maliciously by an abuser (the individual). This also begs the question, "how might have things looked different if Mormonism didn't exist?" Like I said before, it sounds like the church was merely another thing to use as a manipulation tool, but it makes me then think of things like generational trauma. How much of this is learned abuse on the mother's part? How much is learned enabling behavior on the dad's part? This is all purely for speculation purposes, but I would argue that it's important to discern how much abuse comes from the church itself (i.e. doctrine that is taught from a vulnerable age) and how much the church is giving abusers fuel to throw on the fire for no reason other than to watch the flames.

[@leahflower9924]

Personality disorders and religion go well together

[@cumeil]

Watching this and listening to the stories I can predict what the outcomes would be in regards to her families response. Because it’s what would happen to me and everyone I grew up with in the church. It’s toxic and destroys everybody in the same way no matter where in the world you live mormons are the same.

[@dm-dk5lm]

Rendered voiceless is such an accurate description. 💔 Edit to add: narcissistic parents have the space to thrive in lds culture. The rules can be taken as far as it suits them, which means they can "justify" lashing out, they can put the responsibility of what the rules are on dead prophets/God so you can never actually contest the rule with the person who made it, and then they latch onto the hero complex because "they're doing it to save your soul", all while claiming you chose them in the premortal life so you already had your "say". It's super messed up.

[@Jenocide999]

Adam is a strong man. Living under the thumb, directly or indirectly, of your in-laws is devastating to your role in your own family.

[@jeannemarie5908]

Oh my goodness Ari & Adam! You two really, really need to redo your wedding. Please gift yourself with the wedding you deserve! It is a celebration of your love and commitment to each other. Plan an amazing celebration!

[@outwardbound2241]

I commented the same thing. Totally agree!

[@jeannemarie5908]

@@outwardbound2241 Absolutely! When the time is right, this couple really deserves to & needs to have a wedding that truly celebrates their union in a happy and beautiful way!!

[@yolandagrabowski6043]

Mary if you want to. It's just a piece of paper and finger demon. Diamond means demon.

[@windyday85]

I married that missionary at 18!! He told me I was the one he was to marry. He NEVER asked me to marry him. I have lived in fear ever since. And yes I am rendered voiceless.. I stayed for my children. It was the WORST thing to do.. ALMOST 30 years.. I gave my all to my children. Trying to make up for the lack of him being there. I left him I still suffer my children suffer, my grandchildren suffering. Don't let any one tell you that you are to marry them. You find out for yourself. Listen to your heart. And don't stay in any kind of an abusive relationship. They may hold the priesthood and your told to stay. But that is NOT a reason to continue to be abused. This episode REALLY pulled at my heart strings.. I'm crying like Jenn.. The manipulation and narcissist abuse was so well done. I lost me..

[@hairthere9802]

Were you able to get out and get the help you need or do you need safe resources in your area?

[@JennJacobs.]

I lived in Ari and Adam’s neighborhood for a few years and I know they are genuinely great people. From the outside, seeing their sweet family at church, they were the “the perfect family”. I am so incredibly sorry for the trauma you’ve experienced! My advice is to make boundaries that are comfortable for you, I’m 53 now and just starting to dare to disagree with my parents or stand up for my beliefs, it’s such a hard thing when you know how they “view” or talk about outsiders😕. I’ve been out of church for 7 years now, and it gets better! You care less about old belief systems and can rewire to new belief systems! I am so proud of you and thrilled that you’re out and can find true happiness❤️!

[@lisawyatt1671]

100%!

[@michealcobia7869]

I had to wait for my mom to die. Im 68.

[@Cate7451]

You’re identifying the neighbour hood so take down your name. Keep the privacy that they asked for.

[@ernweist]

@Molly, everyone causes some disturbance with the choices they make. It’s more helpful to look where you’ve made your own than lash out at others doing their own healing.

[@ragenbostrom8075]

Sometimes the more perfect you look, the more trauma you carry/create.

[@TiredKnitter]

I think it wasn't really that he hadn't served a mission. That was the excuse. It was that Adam was taking Ari away from being under her mom's power, and she didn't want to lose someone she had control over. I'm incredibly impressed that Ari got out despite all that pressure.

[@djdalad]

that's what happened when I married my exwife, my mom made accusations about her that weren't true, and made my exwife cry from hearing obviously untrue things, I don't respect my mom for poisoning perception of her, I think it was partly not having control of me as reasoning for my mother's behavior.

[@joanteasdale2991]

Yeah by darn they do check for garments I'm not kidding you one lady in our Ward cap sleeves even my mother said she must be kept tucking her garment

[@LucyBlue0823]

I’m not Mormon, but we also called urine “tinkle.”😂

[@cosudu3002]

I think you hit the nail on the head here @avhn

[@BenSwagnerd]

This. My parents are a lot like Ari's parents. I've never been mormon, but I "ruined" their family when I came out as transgender. When I started dating my clean-cut Midwestern active duty military husband, they *loved* him. Until they realized that the loves me for who I am and had no intention of trying to change me. We haven't spoken to my parents in 4 years. Best decision ever. I hope Ari and Adam have kept healing in the year+ since this was recorded. It's so worth it.

[@lc5666]

It's so touching to me to see how many men come on Mormon Stories and support their wives while they tell their own stories. It seems like such a beautiful healing thing, like the opposite of patriarchy telling women to sit down and be quiet. Adam is a great example of this here and I've seen it with several other guests. You can just see how much they love their wives and it's really beautiful.

[@lynnenaylor4224]

But What does their body language say?

[@mynamegoeshere5666]

@@lynnenaylor4224 It says they're nervous to be on camera and talking about a personal issue. People who aren't accustomed to being filmed can look a little uncomfortable or unnatural.

[@ryananderson845]

@@lynnenaylor4224 I thought his body language was reflecting the moods of the topics perfectly fine. Thanks Adam for being there. You're awesome.

[@letahamilton]

Yikes. This episode is so informative & educational for anyone listening- Mormon or not. I am learning so much. Thank you. Having these real life examples of narcissistic family dynamics is super useful for me. Really like your long form episodes.

[@62Loralee]

My family went against me as well. I’m so very sorry. Mom built an army and they stood up for her. They went so far as to call police on me. Thank My husband who supported me in this family war against me. They never said sorry for doing and saying things. It’s brushed under the carpet.

[@leahflower9924]

Narcissists employ flying monkeys

[@ClaireCopeland-n6y]

We were not Mormon but I had the flying monkeys too. Mom had two helpers who stayed with her when my dad died. They were always against me and I gave her most of my check etc etc. My mom would curse and scream at me for no reason and if I said a small word in defense she would say This is elder abuse and pick up the phone to call the police. She had many good moments but got worse with age. I understand this poor girl

[@62Loralee]

I can totally relate. Churchy parents and super abusive parents. Tears.

[@annaswanson5903]

Oh man, when you're an adult who goes to therapy and realize that you're in a family with a multi-generational narcissistic family dynamic family ... anyone else?

[@srso4660]

🙋🏻‍♀

[@vegasviber1173]

I am floored at how much this resonates and is similar to my own family.

[@annaswanson5903]

@@vegasviber1173 I’m sorry you’ve had these experiences, sending hugs and strength from afar

[@annaswanson5903]

@@srso4660 sending hugs and strength from afar

[@julies518]

my husband. He started therapy a couple years ago and his therapist told him his dad has full-blown NPD and his family is terribly enmeshed and toxic. It shook him deep to realize how f*cked up his family is. Sorry you have been in a family like that. My mother is a covert narcissist, I know the harm that comes from that.

[@michealfrances]

I recently had to cut bait with my own Mormon family after years of being the family scapegoat because I'm LGBTQ. It was particularly ugly because my mother's death was used as another way of alienating me out of the family. This hurt will continue as long as I allow them back in my life. As painful as it is, it's really important to stay away from toxic people . The LDS corporation gives these people the impression that it's okay to be hateful toward their family members. There's not a word for what the LDS church has done to our family. It hasn't been invented yet. It's a kind of an evil that's hard to wrap your head around. A multi-billion dollar corporation has destroyed my family. And my family blames me for it

[@greg-op2jh]

I am so sorry. I hope you have found the family you deserve. We can pick the family we want

[@zacc9953]

I’ve watched many of these episodes but this is the first where I was surprised to see people I know. Wonderful people. Adam taught and coached my kids and Ari is an incredible distance runner, well respected and liked in the trail running community. So terrible to hear what they’ve been through.

[@billbirkett7166]

It wouldn't be Mormonism if it weren't a toxic family system.

[@mellisagreen7801]

😅😅😅😅😅😅

[@naanpareil]

As someone who didn't know the first thing about mormonism until I met my ex-mormon now-fiancé, this was a great watch. He also grew up in a narcissistic & abusive family and it's shocking to me the things he thinks are 'normal'. It's a lot of hard work to undo that toxic conditioning he was raised under, but we're tackling it together every step of the way. Thank you Ari for sharing your story!!

[@joliemoyes5423]

Trauma bonded to her family of origin. You have a loving husband and your own children. Just concentrate on them and get healthy.

[@nicolewade160]

Yes!!!

[@dorothybatton9544]

Aris story, by far, is the saddest story I have ever heard and I’m 90 yrs old. I’d be so proud to have her as a granddaughter. I would love to see this amazing couple marry again in a ceremony they could be overjoyed with starting over.

[@MKConnecticut]

I’m not quite as old but I feel the same. I’d welcome this couple and their nine children

[@Cocoon68]

You have a brace and courageous granddaughter!

[@ariannebrown4845]

Thank you, @dorothybatton9544 . I'll gladly adopt you :)

[@rachelleandrichard]

Renew your vows please Ari with people who love you and celebrate your love for each other. You deserve happiness and joy. You've proven your family wrong. You chose a good man. I'm so sorry for all the bullsh*t you went through as a child and young woman. Your mother is so manipulative and cruel treating her children as pawns in some wicked game of control. She needs to apologise but don't hold your breath. People like her believe their own lies. I felt sick to my stomach. No one deserves this. She's so destructive. My hope for you and your generations going forward is that you would bloom and your children will be healthy and prosper. The tears and pain I witnessed be replaced with laughter and genuine joy. You get to author your story from here forward. I wish you well. xo

[@ragenbostrom8075]

THIS IS AN EXCELLENT IDEA

[@Sundaymagpie]

“The very air has ears.” Wow. That is powerful.

[@bethswalwell6797]

I have learned so much about the trauma ‘religion’ causes in families by watching these videos. I (56) grew up with parents who were teachers who NEVER had anything to do with any kind of religion. Sundays were actually called fun days where we did all kinds of things. The only swear word in our house was the word ‘hate’. I am so grateful for the way I was raised and my siblings and I often talk about how wonderful it was.

[@cosudu3002]

I didn't grow up with any religion and I was treated often the same way as Ari was treated. I don't think religion is a requirement for these things to happen. But I understand.

[@haroldwhite5761]

@@cosudu3002 Agreed, govt's easily become narcissistic so can filter down into culture and happen anywhere. But I also know it's very concentrated here in Utah where the separation between church and state is an illusion.

[@gw2424]

Was being the key word.

[@susanwilliams70]

I still remember feeling relief when I moved 600 miles away from where my mom lived (my choice). My mom was diagnosed BPD (borderline personality disorder)in her 70s. By that time the damage had an impact on all 8 of her children. We all went our own ways & avoided her whenever she was raging (often making excuses to leave as these people can get mean at times) or in a bad mood,which could be often. She lived a sad chaotic life. I think Ari had it worse than I as her mom was more extreme. Most of my brothers & sisters were understanding & supported one another when it came to my mom.

[@sirij8784]

I lived in Utah, Arizona and Colorado and if there was one nothing I noticed was that a large majority of the girls had depression, bi polar and anxiety. Mormon or not they all had alot of mental health problems. Why is that?!

[@merricat3025]

Got to be hard to have BPD mom. I have seen many people who say they are in therapy for having BPD. IMO, most don't see the pain they cause people in their lives. Even the ones in therapy. It always seems like it's about them. I get they are in pain, but they cause pain to innocent. I can't imagine one not in therapy raising happy kids. BPD are not people who you want to your close life.

[@srso4660]

Her dad was my therapist 🤦🏼😳 What's ironic is I went to him to deal with my toxic Mormon family. I'm so happy to see Ari made it out, good for her ☺

[@cumeil]

I’d ask for a refund. It boggles my brain how the church has these therapists that do nothing to help vulnerable people. It’s almost like they are out there to keep people damaged and in the church.

[@vegasviber1173]

This resonates. My dad was not a therapist, but many people came to him for advice.

[@Rockinashy]

@@cumeil no literally though. when i went through an extreme traumatic experience, my bishop wanted me go to an LDS counselor and not a different therapist

[@rtwindsor]

He should have his license revoked and his credentials retracted. Quacks like him should be stopped from practicing in the mental health field. Rather, place him as a tour guide for a creationist museum, leave science to the TRUE professionals!

[@ernweist]

@molly then you should come on here and share your own story. How did things really happen? Maybe you can explain about Ari’s wedding day, what was that like for you?

[@Sundaymagpie]

As someone who is completely outside this broke my heart. I’m so thankful that you shared your story.

[@sweingold5686]

Very emotional journey. I agree with another commenter: Renew your vows in a beautiful place that you pick. Get new photos and put them up on the wall. I suggest planning fun family adventures on Sundays. Go to plays, zoo, museums, concerts, nature parks. Encourage your children to explore their passions. Volunteer as a family at a Food Bank and Habitat for Humanity. I wish you a bright future and much happiness.

[@trixieloo]

I have a covert narcissist sister and I could relate to so much of this, even as a “never-mo.” Learning to recognize the DARVO technique was key for me: Deny-Accuse-Reverse Victim and Offender roles. It’s projection/ deflection/ nitpicking. “I don’t have to listen to the content of what you’re saying because you didn’t say it correctly.” Dr. Phil would say “filibustering.” Common among narcissists, borderlines, and addicts when they are confronted. Either immediately or after they’ve had a chance to think about it and “build their case.” I love this channel. So much shared humanity among those of us who have walked through fire and looked for better ways to live. I especially appreciate the perspectives on parenting because I’m determined to break the pattern of generational abuse and trauma with my child.

[@jeannemarie5908]

Ari .. you deserve a wedding do over!! Renew your vows! Get your wedding pictures redone!

[@mormonstories]

I second this motion! - Jenn

[@heathercondie4176]

Yes make a new memory.

[@bigmac4265]

There aren't very many people who understand the mormon culture and dialet!! This is all real and extremely emotionally serious!!

[@Alibee123]

My entire family controlled who I could and couldn’t date. Non members were a ‘no go’. As were individuals from certain families in the church they didn’t like. If I was dating someone that they decided they didn’t like so much they pushed me to end the relationship. I eventually kept secret as long as possible who I was dating. My parent’s contacted the bishop of the fiancés of their children enquiring about them. They have a wall with their and all of their children’s wedding photo’s except for my gay sibling and their partner. You can’t do right whatever you do with this type of mom. If you ask for something ‘How dare you expect xxx from them. If you don’t ask for anything you are leaving them out and depriving them of helping- a smarty pants that thinks they aren’t good enough for you or ‘you think you know so much better’ when you you haven’t lived half as long as them.. I cried on my wedding day too. My parents forgot the groom and I at the restauraunt with no way to get to the reception venue. My mom helped at yw camp, my peers would tell me what an amazing mom I had, how they wished their mom was like mine. I wondered what was wrong with me that I couldn’t get the attention and fondness that everyone else at church got from her. It’s a nightmare to navigate growing up through this. The loneliness from being isolated and teamed on almost broke me more than once. We can choose a better life now, but the memories and scars take time to heal.. haunt. Respect to you for speaking out dear, sweet brave Ari.

[@bookslikewhoa]

When Jenn said that no one will ever cry alone during a Mormon stories… hard relate! I’m always sitting here crying with the folks who share. I appreciate Ari’s vulnerability 💙

[@jmoney8962]

My parents and siblings are so toxic, that I had to step away from all of them Christmas 2018. We always had dysfunction in our family. There were so many issues, I wouldn't know where to begin. I removed my name from the records of the church and I don't want to ever see this family again. Stress-free and being around people who actually love me and see my greatness. Powerful podcast. I can relate. Thank you for your story!

[@unapologeticallyauthentic]

My family puts the "fun" in dysfunctional!! Lol... WEDDING REDO

[@jeannemarie5908]

Ari, as a mother of grown young men (36 & 38) and now fathers. I am proud of you for establishing your boundaries and being true to your self. I am proud of you for protecting your children. You, Adam and your children are the priority. You don’t deserve this treatment - no one does. Ari, you are so blessed to have a strong supportive husband. You are blessed to have wonderful insights into your self & your own pain -> This is where healing is. Follow your heart, love your family, be true to yourself. Thank you so much for being brave and sharing your story. Follow your heart, be true to yourself. Either your parents will be forced to grow (and respect you and your perspective) or they will remain behind your barrier.

[@Mari-go5hc]

Aris' mom sounds like she could be bipolar. I'm not a Dr. but the things Ari is saying sounds like my mother in law. Instant major mood swings

[@Charalldredge]

Ari, same. Very abusive Mother. Never knew if I’d get a push, slap, hair pull just by walking by. I know exactly how you felt and feel today. I’m 50 now, and it doesn’t go away but it doesn’t define me anymore. Time will heal you. Much ❤️ to you.

[@forgivemore4488]

"Striving for the perfect Mormon dream creates suffering for everyone. " Perfectly put, John. So, so sad.

[@curtisgladden6708]

I resonate with her story so much. My father is the same way. He’s tried in so many ways to hide his abuse. Unfortunately I ended up marrying a narcissist as well. Fortunately us kids where close and didn’t fall for the scapegoating. So we are still pretty close

[@ernweist]

@molly, if it happens once that’s possible, I’d it happens twice it’s turning into a pattern. She’s not the only sibling this has happened to- that’s a pattern.

[@joanteasdale2991]

Damn you've just got to go out and make your little family the happiest and funniest that you can be in I feel that in that situation being happy and fun with your little family you will overcome this and you will get over the grief of not having your other family that you grew up with because I left home when I was fourteen and went to live with my aunt and more less quit going to church and met and married the most wonderful guy with the approval of my aunt but I didn't even ask my parents whether they approved or not when I was 24 he felt about the church as I did he was wonderful and I was close to his family because we lived out of state and mine was okay probably because I lived out of state and we did get along because I was out of state but you going to make your own happy little life and put that in the background and eventually you will ease up on that out of the church is not all that bad you'll be free or happier doing what you actually want to do renew your vows have the wedding you've always wanted with your kids as your attendance Batman in your backyard invite your neighbors but don't include Deb toxic family workboard happiness

[@cynthia-n9w]

Great episode. My only "issue" is that Ari (so funny, that's such a male and Jewish name here in NYC) didn't discuss her own parenting more. Her oldest kids must be young adults. I really wonder how they're handling this after being raised in the church.

[@rivkahmiri513]

This is horrible. I kind of relate because my dad is very emotionally abusive. I was cut off from him when I was in my twenties. I'm grateful for that. my teenage years were held because of him and intimate relationships with men have always been difficult. I think that's partially due to the stress that I was under due to him. he's a textbook narcissist. it's strange that I don't think he's a malignant narcissist but he has caused a lot of pain.

[@orvwithbulletholes]

Ari is her nickname, not her full name.

[@heathermireillekoester7856]

I agree that the book Margi recommends , “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” is a must-read.

[@rhadpenguin]

Man, every new story about Ari's mom, I'm just thinking "FUCK...this lady.." like holy shit this woman got MAD issues and needs to be admitted. Horrible horrible actions done by the mother and I feel for these two beautiful people

[@hashaborgonja]

When I told my Dad I wanted to leave the Church, he told me I shouldn't because he has made covenants. He two more times brought it up and told me I shouldn't. The third time, I knew I had to do it. I wrote to a friend, telling him what I intended to do. The next morning, I sent a message to my Bishop telling him what I wanted to do.

[@tthomas6013]

I wasn't able to finish this live, but I went back and finished it later and I'm so glad I did. The similarities are heartbreaking. The LDS Church has allowed this behavior and even encouraged it in some instances. Families are divided or forever cut off. No longer blood is thicker than water. The Church is a poison that has ruined generations. Our Family also dealt with abuse, both within the Family and out. Within the Highest reaches of the Church down to the BSA. The length the Church Officials go to cover-up the abuse is disgusting. Thank you for sharing your story. The more we can get the BS the Church hides out and in the open the better.

[@kimgoeckeritz6320]

Mormon Stories has literally been my life line!

[@kimgoeckeritz6320]

@Jenn Kamp thank you! You bring so much good to this podcast. I always love your comments and heartfelt empathy and compassion. Thank you for the good you put out into the world 💛

[@MKConnecticut]

Me too! And I’m not, and have never been Mormon!!!😘

[@kimgoeckeritz6320]

@@MKConnecticut that’s amazing! Have you ever been affiliated with a religion?

[@MKConnecticut]

Yes- Catholic. My mother was VERY Catholic and I went to Catholic school for 16 years, taught by nuns until college. I walked away when I was 25 because I fell in love with a divorced man and was told I couldn’t marry a divorced man. But so many similar feelings!!!

[@carolinedowdeswell4897]

I'm not mormon, never been but I grew in that toxic family, I feel the pain as she's talking, now my "mother" has so very few people round her shes trying to get closer to me, it's hard I just want to keep her away from me and my children .

[@M3gnog]

I feel fairly confident that even as a believing member I would have cringed at the DAD correcting Adam during the blessing 😬 doesn't seem very Christlike but maybe that's just me...

[@katiem8715]

Oh my goodness Ari, I’m so sorry those things happened to you. I hope you know that NONE of it is your fault- even if you did everything “right” according to your mother, she would find something to punish you for because that’s who she is. Wishing you love and healing ❤️

[@jeannemarie5908]

Wow .. a wall to acknowledge their children’s progression through the Mormon expectations .. and if their child doesn’t meet that expectation they don’t get on the wall. That is HORRIBLE! Absolutely, horrible. Terribly manipulative & passive aggressive. To think my boys were going to school with this kids who were being parented this way. And I, as a single mother, was looked down upon. Geez.

[@brittanygray2742]

Ari- your story is so similar to mine. So so similar. I am estranged from my parents, it will be a year in October. And it's the most painful thing I've ever experienced. I'm struggling and learning how to live now. My kids miss them too.

[@brittanygray2742]

And the wedding story broke my heart. I have a story about my wedding day involving my mom. She made it one of the worst days of my life.

[@melliness123]

My mother was like her mother, we were a UK Mormon family. My father was a good man but very weak and was an enabler. I think narcissists hide in religions, they pretend to be good church going people. Later in life I found that that was Dad was not my biological father and my mother had had many affairs. I need to write a book!

[@JustJ-Me]

Thank you for sharing your story and experiences. 💓

[@windyday85]

Abuse is abuse. Well said!!! This episode set off some BIG triggers for me. The abuse.. Marital abuse!! Pure abuse and he got away with it. I'm the bad one.. He took everything everything. Very emotional.. Just like Jenn.. Narcissist and lying go hand in hand.. You live a life of lies😔😔. Always covering for them.. I was so good at covering. that I REALLY looked like the bad guy when I left him.. Pretending that everything is okay when it's not. Teaches your children that being abused or abusing is okay.. Once I realized that I started making plans. Plans to leave him!!

[@kiterafrey]

My heart goes out to Ari. She deserves a do over wedding. A renewal of vows with friends who are her new family where she can have the wedding that was in her heart.

[@mayflowergal6794]

I agree

[@RCarpeDiem83]

Having grown up in the same town as Ari, and having many acquaintances in common, it has been very therapeutic for me to hear your story. Thank you for having the courage to share so much on these difficult topics.

[@Fuhleash]

As controlling as her family was, she had the strength to make her own decisions at a young age, like getting married to who she wanted, not having kids until she was done with school, etc. She is a powerful person.

[@Geoplanetjane]

One other thing I am seeing is that I should ask you is, would you consider moving? It sounds to me that you are living quite close to many family members who are dangerous to your and your family’s well being. And if you do relocate, do not think you have to let anyone of them know where you are. One last question-it does sound like Adam’s family could possibly be more helpful to you. After all, they did raise a mighty fine son.

[@Joshuamonkey]

About the two instances where your intuition helped you (Ari) discover things: In addition to the theory that it's our own intuition alone, as I started exploring outside of the Church I learned there is a lot of scientific evidence of spiritual telepathy (e.g. in near death or end of life experiences), and this was comforting for me. It doesn't require believing in the Church to believe in spiritual inspiration; the Church just took credit for it you could say. The key is to be intellectually humble and open to different possibilities. :)

[@lilyt5855]

I'm so dang invested in Ari and Adam! I hope so much that they've continued to grow and heal.

[@h0rriphic]

This is heartbreaking.

[@gregshell8570]

your husband is your family!!! Many people have had to distance from parents or other family for SANITY!

[@nicolewade160]

Yes!!! Time to begin new healthy habits & lives

[@Geoplanetjane]

This story reminds me of the psychological study in which baby monkeys were subjected to having wire “mothers” that provided no comfort and yet the babies clung to them as their only source of comfort.

[@azlizzie]

That's dreadful.

[@JustJ-Me]

Thanks for the disclaimers as they are important. I imagine this was both terrifying and validating for Ari.

[@dehende07]

This was a very emotional interview and I love Ari and Adam for their openness, they're willing to tell such a compelling life story...... God bless them

[@Dewey32]

I think if you want to know what a narcissist is up to, listen to what they accuse others of doing.

[@ernweist]

@molly, let me guess, you’re a younger sister. You were probably not even born yet or a tiny girl when these things happened? Which means you’re trusting your parents to tell you what happened. Read up about narcissistic personality disorder and see how much resonates with your parents.

[@Humanity-vt7ls]

@@ernweist yes, this is a younger sister going off of the word of her parents. Which, sadly, as you know they are covering up their abusive ways (both of them) by blaming the discarded children, which is very typical when you have two narcissistic parents. Thank you for your words.

[@MKConnecticut]

My heart has a hundred “feels” for you, Adam. Your simple support is so admirable

[@kathrynneuman1079]

I'm 18 minutes in and I already love Ari. I can already tell she is an honest, trustworthy and deeply compassionate person. She is clearly a person who cares about truth and interpersonal respect, down to her bones. I like spending time with people like Ari.

[@bradengv5187]

"My world is very small." This is so true. Well said. It defines my upbringing and my family members still in the cult.

[@robynhfearon2108]

Your story is our story; your pain is felt by my family too; your courage to hold your story with such self-compassion gives me hope that I can learn self-compassion too.

[@susanaanderson3150]

Ari, thanks for placung yourself in a vulnerable pland and share your story. Is is hartbreaking. What happened to you. Hang in there, don't give up, and don't let your your past define who you are and who do you want to become. Your parents already have done enough damage.

[@acatnamedm4529]

Thanks, Jen. Nice IS different from good. And also 'Children will listen...' Generational abuse is a thing.

[@Andi-tx1rl]

Oh Ari, I wish I could hug you. I've felt only a minute fraction of the abuse you've been through. I have a narcissistic father. It's so hard & I'm so sorry. You are such a brave woman to share your story & your vulnerability. Thank you for being amazing.

[@lisaschildmeyer129]

WOW! Thank you! You've helped me peel away yet more layers. Praying that God will strengthen you in your journey of breaking your generational curses. God bless you! And your family!

[@hannabfree]

I love the advice at the end of “look to the outsiders cause they will catch you and help you” and “trust yourself”. Leaving the church is so hard, especially when it’s so fresh. But this story is so hard to listen to but also incredible and I can’t help but feel so proud of them. ❤️ I thought my story was hard and now I feel that I can handle my story better and move forward with more strength.

[@carlyterrill4785]

This sounds so familiar to Tara Westover's family story. Such similarities. You also have to notice that within the exmo community almost all of us have some degree of this situation....it's almost like the church breeds narcissistic relationships, it's so awful and I am glad to be breaking the cycle with my family.

[@samueljeppsen9785]

Quite interesting. Alot learned. The movie, The Body Snatcher's comes to mind. If they see you're not one of them, they point at you and scream--because that's what Jesus would do. The difference between nice and good. Being gaslite and then gaslighting yourself. Blaming yourself for learning ugly truths. The organization is more important than the family--because that's what Jesus would do. ...So, when does it dawn on you that it's not what Jesus would do??

[@kathymarsden5757]

Joseph Smith's father was an alcoholic and his wife and children were enablers and codependents, Joseph was an adult child of an alcoholic. Their alcoholic codependent dysfunctional shame based family system is replicated in the structure and culture and doctrine of the church. It is the warp and woof of the church..the very foundation structure of it. Dysfunction creates dysfunction in the next generation. Thank you for your clarity, courage and educating us about family systems and shining light on the church''s apparent resemblance to narcissistic family systems. . In your time given here we have been given the template, the substance and evidence of how it really plays out--we can clearly recognize all you have described. This is a priceless gift you have provided. Profound.

[@jeannemarie5908]

I pray that if your family see’s this video of you bearing your soul and being incredibly brave .. I hope it is catalytic to healing the pain in your family. You are BRAVE and strong and a very wise woman, wife, mother. I am sure your strength has helped many people, and will continue to help.

[@kimberlyhacker3334]

Pro at what is gaslighting... because I lived it with my ex. Anyway... not gas lighting- someone trying to not get caught in a lie. Denying something, not remembering things the same way. Gaslighting- intentional pattern of correcting someone's memory, lying, denying someone else's perspective, in order to break down the person's confidence in their own experience.

[@cintianascimento5963]

I also come from a toxic family and I empathize with your pain.

[@romanstarr01]

Boy I certainly can relate to the narcissistic Mormon family dynamic. Grew up with mom only, two older brothers watched go on missions, came back like they were Angel Moroni himself - my brothers could not be anymore Mormon perfected, the heirs of entitlement was like thick cloud of look at me I am all that.

[@kiterafrey]

Growing up in a super religious family, in which aunts and uncles and grandparents were like this, it’s probably more about they can’t control Adam than it is he didn’t serve a mission. A boy who served a mission would be so indoctrinated they’d know he’d let your mom keep you in control, but Adam isn’t that. He stands up for you and that pisses your mom off.

[@karenavey2183]

Her particular vocal trait indicates a high chance of trauma before puberty.

[@janemaas4225]

This is so sad. My heart breaks for both Ari and Adam. With all this negative Ari and Adam will have to work hard to overcome all of this. Prayers and love for both Ari and Adam. You both are very strong to weather this storm.

[@heathercondie4176]

So sorry to hear about your sister Ari. I lost my sister to suicide too. 🤗

[@shannonisenergyLOA]

I can’t understand why the church doesn’t surround you with love and attention when you’re struggling, instead they turn on you. Seems like it’s because it’s fake and they can’t defend it

[@jenniferhutson2655]

Institutions ALWAYS protect the institution first.

[@The_Crow-]

I’m not LDS NOR ever have been. Yet her story resonates so much with me, my mom and family. 😢 ❤

[@rebeccacall7348]

The whole discussion about Lehi's family fitting the narcissistic family model, I actually screamed out loud, "THANK YOU!" It feels so good to hear someone besides me saw that too, but being a Laman or Lemuel, my view was always invalid.

[@dallinklain3852]

Thank you for your story. On a much lesser scale I can see a lot of similarities. Helps me to accept more of the negativity in my past and gives me motivation to move forward.

[@msali3180]

Ari…….you are a life line. Please know that ❤️

[@charisepfahl7778]

John The word to describe Joseph Smith is Chutzpah!

[@mormonstories]

😂😂😂

[@jeannemarie5908]

Oh yes, Jenn .. I am having a very big problem with one woman telling her female daughter that her ability to have children is a blessing bestowed upon her because she was righteous in the pre-life. AND saying other women are not blessed because they were not good … this is awful.

[@mormonstories]

This was one of the harshest and most disturbing things I have heard on Mormon Stories Podcast! - Jenn

[@jeannemarie5908]

@@mormonstories (hugs) yes, it was very very difficult to hear and KNOW that was their reality. Very painful.

[@Alibee123]

People who are like this can really change the narratives to suit themselves. When others lose a child or can’t get pregnant it’s because they lack righteousness.. and when they themselves lose a child it’s because they are ‘blessed’ with a ‘perfect soul’ who didn’t have to go through the life experience. More than once I have heard parents in the church saying when someone had a child outside of marriage that it was the child they themselves had lost previously.. and the spirit had been stollen from them by the ‘sinner’! 😣

[@jeannemarie5908]

@@Alibee123 What?! That is ridiculous! I remember when I was in first grade, the girl next door got pregnant out of wedlock. She was sent away and never came back! Her parents lived next to me for decades. I didn’t ask them about it, but she was never heard of again. I thought it was horrible. Even back then, I remember thinking “for a church that is so into families, they sure tear them apart”.

[@jeangarde841]

Powerful interview with two very brave/strong young people. As a retired hospice nurse, I imagine it’s a grieving process. Prayers for peace & comfort as they move forward.

[@bamaQT99]

Ari, this made me cry. My daughter married a man (boy child) I and the family didn’t like. But we still rallied around her, planned a great day, it was for her, to see her smile. I wanted and prayed to be proven wrong. But a year later, they separated. Again we rallied around her. I can’t imagine treating my daughter the way Ari’s mother did. Ari, you deserve that, you are a beautiful person! Annnnnd I just hear you say you have 9 kids!!!! Wow! College too! Truly an amazing woman!