Toyota 20R/22R GM H.E.I. Ignition Module Conversion - Extra Info

[@DerpInTheWoods]

Thanks for this, I too was overthinking it reading everything online, and you absolutely answered all my questions in my head.

[@The13thSword]

Glad to be of help. Just passing along the info & knowledge I've gained to help others out. BTW & I don't recall if I mentioned it in this update video, but you can run this without the ballast resistor, IF you use a Standard Motor Products UC 15 Ignition Coil instead of the UC12. The UC15 is internally resisted so it doesn't need the external ballast resistor, where the UC12 isn't internally resisted, so it needs the external ballast resistor. Just wanted to get that info posted here for others to see.

[@phillipferrer4668]

Great detailed video planing on doing this on a 76 Celica 20r engine seems ez peezy

[@The13thSword]

Thank you watching & for the kind words. I do need to tell you though that I have discovered a small but vital point as concerns the choice of ignition coil, which I will be making a separate video of soon. That point is, if you decide to go with an original type of coil specified for the 20R, you're going to need to also wire in a ballast resistor on the RUN side of the circuit, & also wire up your starters "R" terminal to the coil's + post. Ignition coils designed for the 20R may be marked as "12 volt", but I have found that they do not perform well or last too long running constant battery voltage (typically 13.5 volts). They are actually designed to run on 8-9 volts, & only get full battery voltage from the starter R terminal at start-up. This was true up until 1980 models. Even though the 1978 to 1980 models has the electronic igniter instead of points, they also had ballast resistors. Even with a new coil (Standard UC12), the idle run quality is mildly inconsistent, & the coil started to develop hot start issues within 3000 miles. I added a 1.4 ohm ballast resistor (Standard RU-4) with another new coil (also UC12) & the difference in idle & run quality is *Very* much improved. Of course you could choose a 1981 or newer "brick" style epoxy-filled coil specified for the 22R & not need the ballast resistor. Those later coils were designed to work at full running battery voltage at all times. They also have the added advantage of a lower Primary resistance plus a higher Secondary resistance over the older style coils, so you'd get even better spark at the plugs. Just wanted to get this out there for you or for anyone else reading these comment threads. If I can help with any other info just let me know.

[@phillipferrer4668]

Understood, can I pick your brain and ask what wire gauge would you use

[@The13thSword]

@@phillipferrer4668 Of course you can. I recommend a minimum of 16 gauge stranded wire for creating your wire hookups, with 14 gauge being better IMO. 16 gauge will safely handle up to 10 amps while 14 gauge will safely handle up to 15 amps. While the module itself will certainly never draw more than 2-3 amps, the coil could be a different story, depending on coil choice. The older style coils that are designed to use a ballast resistor (like the Standard UC12 that I used) draw 3-4 amps. But the later "brick" style coils can draw up to 8 amps. That's why the difference in wire gauges. I like to have a safety margin of 2X to 3X in my circuits, to prevent overheating & damage to the wiring or components. No one needs to start an engine compartment fire that way. 😬 I also recommend that connectors be soldered onto the wire if possible, instead of crimping them on, unless you have a proper crimp connector tool to use. In either case I also shrink tube all terminal to wire connections.

[@ajchat8701]

Your info on this GM swap is the most comprehensive I've found yet. There's so much anecdotal nonsense and guesswork floating around the 4x4 forums and what you have presented is very concise and on-point. I have noticed that the factory GM system has a capacitor in the distributor cap included in the wiring to the module. Is this something that should be included when retrofitting this system to a Toyota?

[@The13thSword]

Thank you for the kind words. I noticed the problems you mentioned as well, which I why I wanted to make the video(s) as complete & direct as possible. The only reason the factory GM system has the capacitor in the wiring is for radio noise suppression. RF (radio frequency) noise can be produced by the ignition system operating, often experienced as a fluctuating "whining" noise that can be heard through the speaker(s). It can also come from the old-fashioned generators & sometimes from alternators, but most of those units came with a capacitor (also known as a "condenser") pre-installed on the unit(s). While capacitors store electrical energy, they also act as a "voltage smoothing" device. The noise interference you may hear are actually changes in voltage frequency. The capacitor "smooths out" those changes so they are reduced or eliminated. There is also a capacitor in your fuel gauge circuit that also does this. It prevents the fuel gauge needle from bouncing around every time the float on your fuel sender moves. You should install one if you are experiencing radio noise interference, even with the HEI conversion installed. I never did it because the late 80's - early 90s vintage AM/FM/cassette radio in my truck has never worked, so it's not an issue for me. For more info on this I recommend the following: www.howacarworks.com/accessories/identifying-and-suppressing-radio-interference BTW you don't need to get or use the "factory" HEI wire bundle with the capacitor in it. Any standard capacitor/condenser intended for auto application that is rated at 0.5 to 1 microfarad (MFD) & at least 100 volts will work. See the article I referenced above for more info. Thanks again for the most kind words & let me know if I can be of any help in the future.

[@nielsenl4171]

What are you using for a coil with the high and low resistance your talking do you have a part number

[@The13thSword]

The simplest way to go is to use the Standard Motor Parts ignition coil part # UC-15. It is internally resisted so it doesn't require an external ballast resistor (like my current setup using the UC-12 coil and an external ballast resistor, Auto Zone/Duralast part # CR-107). You can also use one of the newer "brick-type" epoxy-filled ignition coils intended for the 1981 to 1988 22R (Standard UF12). They are also internally resisted and do not require an external ballast resistor. Further & more complete explanation of the differences in model years for any interested parties - 1978 is the first model year that Toyota introduced their electronic ignition module system, to replace the old mechanical contact points breaker system. Contact points, in general, if constantly exposed to full battery voltage & amperage, will excessively arc, causing pitting & burning of the contact points, eventually causing them to lose contact. Contact points act like an "on/off" switch for the ignition coil so if the contact can't conduct electricity due to being burned or pitted, they won't act like a switch, ^& the coil won't charge & discharge. Also, the ignition coil designs of the day (typical oil-filled cannister type coils) were not designed to run full time on full battery voltage & current. If they were run on full battery voltage & current, the coil would overheat & eventually fail, often in a short period of time (like within a few hours of use). When an ignition coil overheats, it can develop higher primary & sometimes secondary resistance. This lowers spark power output, sometimes to the point that the spark is too weak to ignite the air/fuel mixture in the cylinders, or there may be no spark at all at the spark plugs. The electronic ignition module, along with the distributor pickup coil, replaces the mechanical contact breaker points with a generated AC electric pulse (from the pickup coil) & non-mechanical power transistors (in the module), eliminating the points arcing issue. For the 1978, '79 & '80 models, Toyota continued to use a ballast resistor on the 20R, even though they had the electronic ignition module system. This was to limit voltage & current to the older style ignition coils that they were using, so the coil wouldn't overheat & fail. The older style coils were designed to run at approximately 9.5 volts, not the typical running voltage of 13.5 to 14.5 volts. In 1981 Toyota changed to the newer internally resisted epoxy-filled "brick-style" coil, which can handle the typical running voltage of 13.5 to 14.5 volts without overheating. So the separate external resistor was no longer required. The newer style coils could be wired directed to full battery voltage & current via the ignition switch circuit. Any other questions or additional info needed just ask.

[@coyoteserranoband]

I've been working this out on my dining room table for 3 days so far. Cant get my spark yet. Got a new distrubtor, plugs, cables, battery. Maybe i need a high energy coil? Im using an old coil, "76?..thought that was the problem, yet its reading okay on my multimeter... any advice? Ill probably hook it up to the truck tomorrow. Maybe i need more grounding 😅

[@The13thSword]

That well could be. When you're "bench testing" this system on the dining room table, are you also grounding the spark plugs? They usually ground to battery negative through the cylinder head via the engine block, motor mount, frame, and battery negative ground cable. But with bench testing, you have to supply a ground for the spark plugs, as none of that side of the circuit is there. You'd also need a direct ground from battery negative to the grounding tab on the HEI module. A "high energy coil" really doesn't make that much difference in normal driving performance, and would just cost you extra $. If your old coil is testing out OK on the Ohm meter (in spec) it's likely not the issue. Correct spec for the '75 to '79 stock coil is 1.3 to 1.7 Ohms Primary, and 6500 to 10,500 Ohms Secondary. These are "cold" readings, meaning the coil hasn't been recently exposed to running conditions or had battery voltage applied to it for at least an hour. If the Secondary spec reads anything over 9400 Ohms the coil is weak & needs to be replaced. For the HEI conversion I highly recommend using the Standard Motor Parts coil UC15. It's internally resisted so it doesn't require an external ballast resistor**. Much simpler. If you have any questions about the above or anything else about this conversion just ask. And please let me know what happens if you do put this system in the truck. ** PS - The original stock '76 20R contact points distributor ignition system had a ballast resistor in the "+" side of the circuit. It was there to protect & lengthen the useful life of the contact points. Your original '76 coil will need to have the ballast resistor on the "+" side of the power feed to the coil, as the coil was designed to function that way. Eliminating the ballast resistor & running the stock coil on full battery voltage will "burn out" the stock coil in short order. If you've done your "bench testing" without the ballast resistor in circuit, it could have caused an issue with the coil's Secondary. Retest it with your Ohm meter to be sure. I've learned about this the hard way & have more info on that detail alone; just ask if you need/want to know more.

[@jamesrock1327]

Thank you very much for your video and all of the information I'm going to be doing this conversion to my toyota truck I was thinking about using it MSD ignition module most of the coils I have found our 0.7 primary do you think that that would be okay I am looking at the blaster 2 msd thank you very much for the information

[@The13thSword]

For anyone else reading this, what follows are my personal opinions, based on my own research & experiences. My personal opinion is that *currently available* MSD equipment isn't necessary, will cost you a lot more money than OEM-type parts and is of less quality than OEM-type parts. You're basically paying higher prices for the "name" & the now old racing association & previous quality of the brand of these parts. I have looked at the MSD parts you mention and really can't see any difference between them (except for quality) & higher grade OEM-type parts from Standard Motor Parts, Wells (WVE) or NGK. For example the Blaster 2 coil usually sells for about $65 US retail & is made in China. A comparable NGK coil (NGK 49030) is made in Japan (*very* good quality BTW) & normally retails for about $53 US. That's 18% less $ for a much better quality coil. The Standard UC12 is either US made or made in Mexico (the Mexican coils are still just as good quality as the US made one) & are about $40 US retail. That's 38% less $ for better quality than the MSD Blaster 2. As for the module the same issues apply. More $ for China-made parts vs US or Japan made parts. From much personal experience, the China-made parts (regardless of what brand name is on them) just aren't anywhere near as good in quality or durability. Any goof quality coil that is intended as a standard replacement will work with the HEI module. The usual Primary resistance is usually 1.3 to 1.7 Ohms & you'll get all the spark power you need from one of those. If you really want to go with a lower Primary resistance coil, you can consider the newer-style "brick" epoxy filled coil for a 1981 to 1988 22R carbureted engine (not EFI). The Primary on those is 0.2 to 0.8 Ohms with a Secondary of 7K to 13K. The Standard UF12 would work very well. www.rockauto.com/en/parts/standard+motor+products,UF12,ignition+coil,7060 Only thing different is that you'll have to figure out a way to mount it, due to it being a "brick" shape & not a canister like the old-style coil.

[@charliechucker]

So does this work on a 22RE as well? It's impossible to find a replacement for the 1988 22RE ignitor at present. All aftermarket are showing out of stock.

[@The13thSword]

I will preface my answer by saying that I have never tried to do this conversion on a 22RE personally, so I have no real world practical experience on how that would turn out. I am not entirely sure if it would work, or work well enough to be a viable alternative. After doing a bit of research the main difference between the 22R & 22RE ignitions is that the carb system uses a vacuum advance/retard & the EFI system doesn't. The EFI distributor doesn't have the vacuum diaphragm system on it. This leads me to believe that the EFI ignition control module (ICM) also regulates the ignition advance in tandem with the ECM (engine control module). With that said, I'd likely lean to the answer being a qualified no, it probably won't work well enough to be a viable alternative. One alternative is to source a working used ICM. There are several currently on Ebay for the 84 to 88 22RE. Or give Jim's Used Toyota Truck Parts in Denver a call. yodajims.com/ I've dealt with them several times before on my '78 & they usually had what I needed. If you can find a used but working Toyota OEM ICM that would be your best alternative to get the truck going again.

[@ibbryn2190]

I have a stock 81 pickup with the 22r. This has the "Type III" (rectangular) coil instead of the tubular. Could I run the GM Ignition Module with my Type III coil? Any changes you feel are needed in the stock plugs or wires, plug gap, reluctor gap or addition of a resistor? Appreciate all the info you've put out on this mod, even after a number of years. Thanks for your help!

[@The13thSword]

The HEI Module modification will work even better with the later style rectangular ignition coils. This is due to the fact that the rectangular coils have a much lower Primary resistance than the older style "can" coils, on the order of 50% less. Secondary resistance specs are pretty much the same. The rectangular coil will actually put out more voltage on the Secondary side than the "can" style coil. The 4 pin HEI module system was originally designed to work with an epoxy-filled rectangular coil with resistance specs of Primary 0.2 - 0.8 Ohm & Secondary 5000 - 11,000 Ohms. This is very similar to your stock 1982 Toyota "Type III" coil specs (Primary 0.8 - 1.0 Ohm, Secondary 7000 - 13,000 Ohms. So the short answer is yes, your stock Toyota coil should work fine with the 4 pin HEI module. They are very compatible. That also means your stock spark plugs, plug wires & plug gap spec should work without modification. Toyota's stock Reluctor gap spec is 0.008" - 0.016" (0.2mm - 0.4mm). I have mine set right in the middle at 0.012" (0.3mm) & it triggers the HEI module with no issues. No epoxy-filled rectangular style ignition coil that I am aware of requires a resistor. Most of the old oil-filled "can" style coils needed am external resistor to keep it from having too short of a service life from overheating & failing. There are a few "can type" coils that don't need an external resistor, but either type is almost always clearly marked on the outside of the "can" which type they are. Reference: www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=47707&cc=0&pt=7060&jsn=3 In your case, no external resistor is required. As usual with this mod there are a few important/critical items that must be correct. Clean & solid ground from the module ground tab to body or frame ground is crucial. Wiring should be 16 gauge stranded or heavier. Terminals should be soldered onto wires where possible; crimp-style connectors can fail & have on me before. Now I will only solder & shrink-wrap my connectors. That's about as complete as I can make this at the moment but let me know if you have any other questions or need other info. Thank you for the compliments, they are greatly appreciated.

[@ibbryn2190]

@@The13thSword Thanks for that prompt reply. Have ordered the Ig Module and heat sink, will install with my new, but standard, plugs and cables and my OEM coil. Thanks again for all your work on this project!

[@The13thSword]

@@ibbryn2190 No problem, just glad it helps people out. Your plan sounds good, let me know how it goes.

[@CC33-]

Hey brother, love your videos! Thank you for all the great information. I have a 1978 20R that is very similar to yours and all of your videos have helped me tremendously over the years. It’s very much appreciated! I do have a question about this HEI mod if you have a moment. I did the swap out and wired up just as you have done. I used a Delphi module (not sure if it’s as quality as an AC Delco. It was $30) the truck fires right up and the idle sounds great. I put in brand new spark plugs and wires also. However when I rev up to higher RPMs or try to go from first to second gear, it completely loses power and almost dies completely. I made sure to set the proper air gap on the distributor pickup (using your tri-fold dollar trick by the way, which was awesome!) that didn’t seem to solve the issue though. I haven’t changed the gap on the new spark plugs, because I wasn’t sure if that was necessary. Anyway, if you have any ideas or suggestions, it would be very much appreciated! It’s my daily driver/work truck and I feel like it’s something pretty simple I must be missing. I checked the timing with a light and messed around with adjusting the distributor position, but still wanted to die at higher RPMs. Thank you for all your info and help!

[@The13thSword]

I'm glad that the vids & info have been of help to you. I will try to take your points & questions in order. I have done quite a bit of research on these modules and the differences in brands. It is my opinion that the Delphi module is just as good in quality (if not better) than the AC Delco module. These days the AC Delco is made in China, while to the best of my knowledge the Delphi modules are still US made. I would seriously doubt that a Delphi module would be defective right out of the box. The fact that you wired it up & it works right off the bat pretty much tells me it's not the module. It is possible that it's become damaged since you installed it but that another thing I'll address later. What ignition coil are you using, brand & part number? I've learned that the original style coil (like the Standard UC12 coil) doesn't do so well with the HEI module unless you use a ballast resistor. The secondary side of the coil tends to get "cooked" at full battery voltage & when that happens, it can damage the module. If it were me, I'd resistance test the coil first with an Ohm meter to check for high resistance in the secondary side of the coil. The original coil specs are 1.3 to 1.7 Ohms Primary (test leads on + & - terminals) & 6500 to 10,500 Ohms Secondary (one test lead on center terminal, other lead on either + or - terminal, doesn't matter which one). Test should be done "cold"; after the engine hasn't been run for at least an hour. Anything higher than 9250 Ohms on the Secondary means the coil is either going bad or is bad. More on coils later. Gaps - Good work on verifying the air gap on the Pickup Coil. Spark Plug gap should be set to stock at 0.031" or 0.8mm to work the best with this setup. Larger plug gaps will not be beneficial. Also (being a bit redundant here (don't take it personal), *NEVER* trust the "factory gap" on spark plugs right out of the box. Always check & set them yourself before installing. What brand & part #'s of plugs & wires are you using? Did you also replace the cap & rotor with new? Distributor/Engine Timing - Correct stock setting is 8 degrees before top dead center (BTDC). This is with the engine fully warmed up, choke fully open, idle speed set correctly (800 RPM for automatic trans, 850 for manual trans) & vacuum advance line disconnected from vacuum advance. The vacuum line needs to be plugged to prevent a vacuum leak (I use a golf tee or a nail of the appropriate size for this). Speaking of distributors..... Are you running the original distributor? If yes, how many miles are on the vehicle? High RPM cutout like you describe can be due to a worn distributor, or more likely a sticky advance mechanism or missing weight springs. Those need a bit of lubrication for time to time on the pivot points for the weights. If the mechanism doesn't "advance" on higher RPM's you could experience the symptoms you're describing here. You could also have a vacuum leak in the line going from the carb to the advance unit, or possibly have the line hooked up to the wrong port on the carb so that the advance unit isn't getting the proper vacuum "signal" at the right time(s). If all of those things check out OK, I'd than suspect that you have a fuel issue, either with fuel delivery or am internal carb issue, or possibly a large vacuum leak somewhere. Is the carb original? Has it ever been rebuilt? While the engine is running/idling have you ever sprayed the carb with carb cleaner to see if it rises in RPM's? That's a good way to find hidden vacuum leaks. There's tons more small or other things I could mention but I think I've given you enough to look at & think about. More often than not with these trucks it's something simple & usually related to age & use. Let me know the answers to those questions & what you find out.

[@tomgreen7095]

The distributor I picked up has a brown wire and a tan wire. Any ideas? I bought a Cardone 31-721. Doing an electronic upgrade on my 1977 Corona, help!

[@The13thSword]

I already answered your direct email on this but will also answer here. The Cardone 31721 is correct. Not sure what's going on with that unit having a brown and a tan wire, but there is a way to figure out which one is supposed to be the "red" wire and which one is the "white" wire. Take the cap and rotor off the distributor if you haven't already done so. Look inside the top of the distributor and locate the pickup coil that has the two wires coming out of it. It will look like this: www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=28291&cc=1275982&pt=7108&jsn=9 Notice that the two wires are "stacked", top and bottom. The bottom wire will always be the "red" wire & the top wire will always be the "white" wire. Just pick one wire and visually follow it to the plug end. Then you'll know which terminal in the plug is which. Also, you said in your email that you have a stock Igniter system in that '77 Rona. There should be a rectangular plug coming off that unit that should directly connect with that Cardone distributor. Those rectangular plugs can only be connected in one way, because of their design. So there shouldn't be any way to connect the two things out of phase or backwards. Have at look at your plugs & you should see what I mean. As long as that stock Igniter unit is from "78 to '80 they should fit. If the plug on the Igniter is round instead of rectangular, the Igniter unit is an '81 & newer unit. That can still work but you'd also need to obtain or fabricate a jumper wire with female spade lugs at each end to connect the two items together. I don't have a source for the stock Toyota plugs. As I said in my email, any specific questions just ask.

[@williamkarpowecz8335]

so if i have an ‘85 22r can i use the LX301 igniter with a UC-15 coil? going to a regular distributor cap

[@The13thSword]

I don't see why you couldn't, if you are also using the stock 22R distributor. The wiring would be the same with the exception of eliminating the ballast resistor, due to the use of the UC-15 coil. It's actually simpler than my setup on my '78 20R. The only difference of note here would be the dual vacuum advance/retard diaphragms on the '85 22R distributor. You really only need to have the vacuum line to the outer (advance) diaphragm. The inner (retard) diaphragm, you should not have it's original vacuum line going to it. Instead just cap off the port on that one.

[@williamkarpowecz8335]

does the ballast resistor look like a relay that’s grounded on the fender?

[@The13thSword]

@@williamkarpowecz8335 If you mean an original stock part, there should not be a ballast resistor on your '85, as the ballast resistor was eliminated from use when Toyota went from the 20R engine to the 22R in 1981. If you want/need a visual reference for the resistor, Google "CR107 ballast resistor" and look under the "images" link and you'll see what one looks like. The UC15 ignition coil is internally resisted so you don't need an external ballast resistor. If for some reason a previous owner installed a ballast resistor (part that you say looks like a relay on the inner fender and matches the general appearance of the CR1070, than that's not a stock 22R part. If you use the UC15 coil you can leave it out of the new ignition circuit, and/or remove the resistor from the vehicle entirely. You won't need it. If you want to send me a picture of the part you are trying to describe so I can try to identify the part, send to [e-mail], and I'll try to let you know what it is.

[@deer9620]

Are you available to answer a few questions on problems I’m having. Did the swap, but having issues. Anyway to email you? Thanks

[@The13thSword]

Go to my channel page at www.youtube.com/@The13thSword & click on the "more" link in the description, then click on "see email address". I'll answer whatever questions you may have, if I can. All I ask is that you be as detailed & complete as possible about what situations you may have.

[@deer9620]

@@The13thSword, I couldn’t figure out how to see email. I have 1987 Toyota truck with 22R. Truck would not start due to no spark. I did this swap in your video about a year ago. Using UC15 coil, Lx301 ignition module, NGK 7082 plugs, and 8.5mm wires. The ignition module is mounted on an aluminum heat sink. It’s been real finicky for the year. Spark comes and goes. I’ve finally started looking into it as I was doing other repairs on it. It’s basically a project. My problem is when my battery voltage is at 12.48 I get zero spark from the coil. When voltage at the battery is 12.74 I get spark and a good running truck. Not sure what to do. Not sure if I had a bad distributor to begin with, before I did the conversion. Any advice? Thank you

[@The13thSword]

@@deer9620 Thank you for the info. I do not believe that the differing battery voltages you state are the problem. Most ignition coils can & will produce useable spark even if fed with 8 to 9 volts. It is more likely that you have a grounding issue at the module or elsewhere down the line. What you're describing sounds like an intermittent connection but it's difficult to say where, either the ground side or the power side. The HEI module needs a good clean & solid ground to function continuously. I've found that in this conversion, the module ground can be a stumbling block for many. That's why I choose to mount my ground wire to the top of the module, at the right-side ferrule, as that ferrule is mechanically & electrically connected to the module's backplate. I've seen some people connecting the ground wire to the backplate instead, & the silicone paste used between the module & heatsink can act like an electrical insulator. What I would do is go through the electrics & check every ground for excess resistance, using an ohm meter, inspecting/cleaning every battery ground point (battery negative to frame/motor mount, ground cable from cylinder head to firewall and whatever ground point on the vehicle you used for the module ground). Ground cables or straps, if aged, can develop higher resistance, especially when in use, & can drop you voltage like a stone. Ground cables or straps should never measure more than 0.1 Ohm resistance end to end. If they measure higher than that, replace them. I highly recommend this for any older vehicle. What did you use for a grounding point for the module? Your '87 should have an internal voltage regulator on the alternator, so I know you likely didn't use the external voltage regulator mounting bolt like I did. I'd also recheck every connector, especially if they are crimp connectors. I've had a few of those come apart on me before on their own. That's why when I use a crimp connector now, I always shrink-tube the connection point where the wire is crimped into the connector, to help keep it together. Also prevents that point from corroding. It's possible that a crimp connector is loose & causing this intermittent problem. Been there done that. How's your battery condition & age? That 12.48 resting voltage is a bit low; it should be 12.6 volts or higher. Clean & tight terminal connectors? Corroded, dirty or loose terminal connectors can cause poor charging & many other electrical issues. Distributor - Use an ohm meter to check the resistance on the Pickup Coil. Spec is 130 to 180 ohms (cold). I mention that this is a "cold" spec for a very specific reason. Any coil over time & use can develop higher resistance, due to the copper wire windings fatiguing (same issue with ground cables). When this happens, once a coil absorbs some engine heat, that resistance will go up even more, choking off voltage. How old is your distributor? What is the air gap measurement between one of the reluctor ring vanes and the face of the Pickup Coil? That spec is .08" to .16". I set mine at .12", right in the middle of the spec. Are the Pickup Coil hold-down screws tight? If not the Pickup Coil could be moving around slightly, giving you that intermittent symptom. So there's some starters for you. Let me know what you find.

[@deer9620]

@ I appreciate your help. I mounted the ignition module to an aluminum heat sink. That heat sink is mounted to the factory Toyota mount that the older coil used to be mounted to. I cleaned up the mount and if I remember factory ground that bolts to the fender and bracket combo. I did take a jumper cable and clamp it onto the bracket where my ignition module is mounted to. Hooked the other side to the negative side of the battery. No change. Tried two different batteries. The only thing that helps is attaching the battery charger and getting that voltage up. I will go through everything again and report back. Thanks again

[@AgnesHoffman-w8x]

im confused is it best to use a 803 coil with a ru4 resistor than the newer coil straight 12 volts

[@The13thSword]

What is "best" is always a matter of opinion. Many would say the coil that can handle the straight 12 volts input (805, see below) would be better, usually with the reason given that it would provide a "hotter spark" & therefore better combustion. However you'd also have to change to a higher quality of spark plug to handle that extra spark power correctly. If not, the "stock" spark plugs may deteriorate sooner than expected & give you a run quality issue. You'd also be well advised to use a "premium" spark plug wire set with those upgraded plugs & coil. Ignition components must be matched to work well with each other. I use the stock copper/nickel Denso 3027 plugs with a 0.031" gap (stock spec) plus the Standard Motor Parts UC12 (803) coil with the RU4 resistor, & a "standard" wire set. The engine runs well this way for me. The trick is basically a daily driver, not a performance vehicle, so I don't really need the extra performance. It's currently getting 20+ MPG city on non-ethanol gas. You could use the Standard Motor Parts UC15 (805) coil which doesn't require the resistor (full 12 volt power input) but I'd upgrade to platinum plugs, either the Denso 4501's or the NGK 7082's with a 0.040" gap. You need the better quality plugs & larger gap to take any advantage of the "hotter spark" output from the "full voltage" coil. Plus the higher quality plugs will last longer than the "stock" plugs" under that "hotter spark" condition. Plus a premium wire set made by either Denso or NGK would be wise. So basically, you need the resistor with the "803" coil (SMP UC12) or you don't need the resistor with the "805" (UC15) coil. Because the "803" coil isn't designed to handle the full 12 volts constantly; it will become internally damaged & stop working properly in 1000 miles or so (or maybe less). The "805" coil is designed to handle the full 12 volts, so no resistor is required The choice is up to you. Any other questions just ask, but be as specific with your questions as you can, so I can give you as complete a response as possible.

[@traetanoai9577]

Could this work with a 22re? My 22re has no spark. I tried different distributors, ICM, and changing coils. I need so help. I followed your video and still no spark. Help please. Mahalo🤙🏽

[@The13thSword]

What I have to say first is that I have no personal experience with the GM HEI Module conversion on a 22RE, so I cannot say with first-hand experience that it will work. With that said, now I'll discuss some things I've seen & heard from others about this, plus some things that I actually know. The 22RE has electronic fuel injection instead of a carburetor like the 20R & 22R. There is a separate electronic control module that controls the firing of the injectors. This module is usually located behind the kick panel, under the dashboard, on the passenger side. So I would assume that control module would need to "see" the same signal that the HEI module is getting from the distributor pickup coil, OR, a signal coming off of the "C" terminal on the HEI module. This is usually the wire that goes to & feeds the tachometer. That terminal also goes to the ignition coil's negative (-) terminal, and it switches the ignition coil on & off to fire the coil. I have two sources for you to look at/read to maybe have this make more sense to you: www.celica-gts.com/forums/index.php?topic=30554.0 www.yotatech.com/forums/f123/22re-no-injector-fire-expert-help-needed-221468/ That first thread especially illustrates what I am saying about the "tach" wire, and that poster confirms that once he got that hooked up correctly, his 22RE ran. You might need to obtain a service manual for your year/model vehicle to check out the wiring diagrams, to find out what color wire that is, so you can be sure you are connecting to the correct wire. And to understand just what goes on with your system. I also say this because there are several other items on the 22RE that aren't on a 22R, that if malfunctioning, could cause a no-start issue. Like the circuit opening relay (COR), Time Start Injector Switch, Cold Start Injector, & more. That's about all the info I can give you at the moment. Let me know what happens.

[@MrNunez1]

Hey question. I just installed the HEI module but I’m not getting 12V to my W and G terminals. I do get 12V to my B and C terminals. I also noticed when I try to start it the 12V loses power and goes to 9V? Any suggestion?

[@The13thSword]

All of this sounds reasonably normal to me. I will explain. There should *never* be 12 volts at the W & G terminals, as it is connected to the Pickup Coil in the distributor & not to the vehicle battery. The Pickup Coil is basically a pulse generator that generate AC voltage. When turning, it should be putting out on average 3 volts AC. You can try to measure it with a volt meter if you want to, but you have to be sure you have the meter set up to read AC volts. You also have to be sure that the air gap on the Pickup Coil is set within specs, with one of the reluctor ring vanes pointing directly at the center of the coil core. Spec is 0.008" to 0.016", or 0.2mm to 0.4mm. I set mine right in the middle at 0.12" or 0.3mm. "12 volts" to B & C terminals is correct. It should be the same or maybe 0.1 volt less than resting battery voltage. Typical battery voltage at rest (vehicle not running) should be at least 12.5 to 12.6 volts. When cranking, battery voltage drops. When cranking, battery voltage shouldn't drop below 9.6 to 9.7 volts. So around 9 volts when cranking is pretty normal, IF you have a good battery & good, clean, solid connections. If battery voltage drops below that when cranking, you either have a bad battery, a bad battery to chassis ground connection, a high resistance (old?) battery negative ground cable, a combination of these, or all three. Connection could be dirty, corroded or loose. That also applies to positive connections, at both the battery & the starter. One of the most critical things with this mod is making sure the module has a solid ground connection. It can be a body or frame ground connection, but if the battery negative connection to frame or body isn't good & solid, it can be an issue. You didn't say whether you got this mod to run or not., what the precise voltages are, or whether you are running a ballast resistor or not. Those plus other factors could affect function. Let me know.

[@MrNunez1]

@@The13thSword I know I have a bad battery but I have it jumped unless that doesn’t work. I noticed that I wasn’t getting a spark after I installed the HEI module. I installed it like you did in the video. I grounded it to the engine bay where other grounds are just no spark.

[@MrNunez1]

Does it the module run off a fuse or just the 12 when I turn the ignition?

[@The13thSword]

@@MrNunez1 The module and ignition coil should be wired into the the ignition circuit. That power is controlled by the ignition switch. That circuit has it's own fuse in the fuse block.

[@The13thSword]

@@MrNunez1 OK but have you checked ALL of the grounds like I described in my earlier reply? The ground side of the circuit is like a chain; there can be several "links" (connections) that could be bad that need to be cleaned up & tightened. You have to be thorough with this older vehicles, as they often have things like that going on. The bad battery being jumped could be a problem, especially if the plates inside are shorted (common issue when a battery "goes bad"). It's better to test the system with a good battery in place on it's own. Have you resistance tested the Pickup Coil in the distributor with an ohm meter? If it's the old distributor/pickup coil, it could be worn & have high resistance, which would prevent it from generating a pulse signal to the module. The factory spec on the Pickup Coil is 130-180 Ohms cold. Is the ignition coil new or old? If old it also needs to be resistance checked with an ohm meter. I can't give you the coil spec on that because you haven't told what year or model of vehicle you are working on there. If the pickup coil tests good, another reason for no spark is too bif of an air gap on that coil. Set it to the spec I previously mentioned in my earlier reply. It would be very helpful on my end if you gave a complete description of all the new parts you've used w/brands & part numbers, plus any other actions you've taken.

[@paulvillacres828]

Hello, I have a question, I have a Toyota Hilux with a 22r carburetor from 1995, I converted it to this ignition module in the video, sometimes it takes a little longer to start the engine, I have also noticed that the fuel consumption is a little older. In your experience, have you noticed it?

[@The13thSword]

I have not noticed any differences in starting time or fuel consumption. In fact my miles-per-gallon is exactly the same as it was before with the Toyota Igniter ignition module. I would suspect that your carburetor could do with a little cleaning and tuning, if those things haven't been done for some time. Sticking linkages, cables, and/or idle mixture set incorrectly can cause intermittent starting delays/problems. For exterior cleaning you do not have to remove the carburetor from the engine. Use carburetor spray cleaner on all of the exterior moving parts (linkages) to remove any substances that may be making the linkages stick & not able to move freely. You may want to put some cardboard or paper around the base of the carb before spraying to catch any "junk" & keep it off your your engine. Once the carb cleaner has completely dried, it's a good idea to lubricate all of the moving points on the linkages with a light machine oil, mineral oil or ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid). Don't over-do this, just use enough lubricant to lubricate a moving point or pivot point, or any moving parts that contact each other. Chain & Cable Lube also works well for this (see next paragraph.) It is also possible that your throttle cable is sticking sometimes due to lack of lubrication or wear. It is 29 years old. To lubricate it you'll need a cable lubricator tool. More info here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4LRfpeFgZVsq7s DO NOT USE WD-40 as cable lube. The solvents in it can melt the plastic sheathing of the cable. I recommend PB Blaster Chain & Cable spray lube. Next you will want to adjust the idle mixture screw. This is done with the engine fully warmed up to operating temperature and with the choke fully open, and with the engine running at low idle speed (750 RPM for Manual Transmission, 850 RPM for Automatic Transmission). The idle mixture screw may or may not have a plastic cap or plug over it; if yours has the plastic cap/plug it needs to be removed to access the idle mixture screw. The Idle Mixture Screw is located at the middle base of the carb on the right side of the vehicle. Picture of screw location(s) here: www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/carb-adjustment-48857/#&gid=1&pid=1 If the engine is already running fairly smoothly, slowly turn the screw to the left until the engine just starts to run a little roughly, then turn the screw slowly back to the right until the engine runs it's smoothest. This should take 1/4 to 1/2 of a turn. If the engine already runs a little rough (or more), you will have to try turning the screw in each direction & listen to how the engine runs and responds, until you find the correct setting where the engine runs it's smoothest. After doing this adjustment you may have to adjust the warm idle speed screw (see picture) to get the correct warm idle speed. It would also be a good idea to check for vacuum leaks in any hoses going to the carb, & to check that your engine timing is set correctly. 5 degrees BTDC (before top dead center). I hope this helps. If you have any other questions just ask.

[@CodyFinchum]

You could add thermal paste aswell like you would on a computer ecu and help it cool further

[@The13thSword]

Actually that's the exact thing I ended up doing. I used MX-5 CPU thermal paste, and it's working just fine. Any quality silicone thermal paste or gel will work, as long as it's a quality product. There are also CPU thermal pastes that contain silver (like Arctic Silver 5), which conduct heat better by 30%-50%, but of course, they do cost more. BTW - You only need a very thin & complete coat of thermal paste to do the job correctly. The thermal paste's job is to take up microscopic pits & spaces in both the HEI Module's bottom plate and the heat sink, for more complete contact & heat transfer. Using too much thermal paste is just as bad as using none at all. I also recommend replacing the thermal compound every 3-5 years if the vehicle is driven regularly (daily or near-daily). The paste will dry out over time due to repeated heating/cooling cycles, and eventually evaporation of the oils in the paste. WARNING - DO NOT USE DIELECTRIC GREASE BETWEEN THE HEI MODULE AND HEAT SINK. Dielectric Grease is nowhere near as efficient as thermal compounds or thermal gels in the transfer of heat. If you use Dielectric Grease instead of Thermal Compound or Thermal Gel, the HEI Module can malfunction and/or fail at a very short interval of time, due to overheating.

[@tomgreen7095]

I have a 1977 corona. Trying to convert to electronic ignition.

[@AlvaroRivera-pf6ci]

Very well explained friend, this ignition module can be adapted to a 22R year 81

[@The13thSword]

Thank you. It could also possibly be done on any 22R carbureted engine up to the 1995 model year, as the same type of distributor was used until then.

[@AlvaroRivera-pf6ci]

@@The13thSword thanks my friend

[@shnek5143]

would a msd blaster 2 coil work?

[@The13thSword]

That depends. If it's one of the brand new Blaster 2's I wouldn't use it. Blaster 2's are now made in China and I would suspect the quality of it. I've never had any luck with a Chinese made ignition coil of any brand; they just don't last. Many of the "performance" name brand oil-filled canister-type coils on the market today are China made. At a minimum, I prefer coils made in Mexico, like the Standard UC-12 or UC-15. The quality is good, they last, and the price is nearly half of a Blaster 2. If you have one of the older made in the US Blaster 2's that's fine, as long as it's within factory specs, specifically the Primary resistance (0.7 ohms). Also, unless you've done a total "race" rebuild on the 20R or 22R engine, there really isn't any point or need to go to a "performance" coil. Even the stock coil will give all the spark power you'd need for such an engine. Other than that, any ignition coil of *good quality that matches the original Primary & Secondary resistance specs will work, regardless of brand. You can even use an actual GM HEI coil, as long as you wire it in correctly.

[@shnek5143]

@@The13thSword Ok thanks

[@johnwestgarth2830]

Does the HEI Ignition give a stronger spark than the standard toyota

[@The13thSword]

It's not a matter of a stronger spark but a more reliably consistent spark over the older contact points setup that was used before electronic ignition systems were created. Either the Toyota Electronic Ignition "Igniter" or the HEI module will be more consistent that a points system as it is electronically switched instead of mechanically switched. Plus mechanical contact points can wear or get pitted from arcing over time & cause weak or missed spark. The initial reasons for this conversion is that the original Toyota Igniter module stopped functioning, and that replacement Toyota Ignitors for the 20R are either very hard to find (even working used ones), and even if you could find a new one they are expensive. Last new one I saw was 5 years ago & they wanted $600 for it. The 4 pin HEI module like the LX301 is $25-$30, is widely available, & functions the same basic way the original Toyota unit did. The module is basically a switch that turns the power on & off to the Ignition Coil. How "strong" the spark is, is dependent on how the ignition coil was designed & made and the condition of the rest of your system, such as spark plugs, rotor, cap, wires & even how well your engine is grounded. As long as all this is in good condition there shouldn't be any need for a "hotter" or "performance" ignition coil. Most stock ignition coils will put out on average 40,000 volts, which is plenty for a street-driven vehicle. NOTE/TIP: If you are considering doing this conversion, don't "cheap out" on the ignition coil. I know from experience that they aren't worth using & don't last. Get a good quality brand like SMP/Standard, NGK or WVE/Wells. NAPA/Echlin is the same as SMP/Standard just with the NAPA name on it & usually at a higher price. Hope this answers your question. If you have any other questions about this conversion just ask.

[@allan2502]

Can i use a 22re distributor?

[@The13thSword]

I do not recommend it. The 22RE distributor doesn't have the vacuum advance diaphragm like the 22R version does. On the 22RE all ignition timing advance is handled by the Engine Control Module (ECM) computer. On the 20R & 22R ignition timing advance is mechanically handled by the weights in the distributor and the vacuum advance diaphragm, operated by a vacuum signal from the carburetor. If you're doing this conversion on a 20R or 22R it's best to use a 20R or 22R distributor, as either one will give you the ignition vacuum advance you need. NOTE: If using a 22R distributor, those have a double vacuum diaphragm setup, one for advance & one to retard the timing. The advance diaphragm is the outer-most one & that's the one that should get the vacuum signal from the carb. The inner diaphragm isn't used. Any other questions just ask.