Toyota Cam gear rattle repaired with out buying parts

[@OlawaleFowler]

Thank you so much I just did this on my Toyota RAV4 2009 and it solved the one second cold start noise you just saved me a lot of money thanks again

[@A2J_Tim]

you are more than welcome, please share my video with other toyota people.

[@tommygomez5343]

Were you able to do this without removing the cam gear from the camshaft on your RAV4 2ARFE?

[@A2J_Tim]

@@tommygomez5343 I have not done that engine yet, So I dont know for sure.

[@tommygomez5343]

@@lornesbored It's on the cam that is closest to the firewall on a 2ARFE

[@A2J_Tim]

@@lornesbored the intake cam gear is the one closest to the intake manifold. because the intake camshaft opens the valves for the intake manifold.

[@EdBruschinsky]

Superb video, excellent detail, very skilled mechanic. Did exactly as the fellow instructed, adding a pen spring too, solved my startup rattle too. Thank you for taking the time to explain each step. Awesome.

[@A2J_Tim]

you are most welcome. :)

[@therandomfarmer4231]

Hey man just wanna thank you for the vid. I just bought a 09 rav 4 that had this same issue. I bought a new cam gear and installed it but when i took the old one apart it bugged me cause I figured thats all it was. I couldnt find anywhere to confirm that the part was actually updated so feared i may have to do this job again (car only has 80k miles on it rn) but Ive thought about doing exactly what you did if i needed to do it again. Little peace of mind for me I suppose. Smart guy. Thanks again!

[@A2J_Tim]

you are more than welcome, I am glad it helped and will help others, please share this video with others so that they can also fix this issue.

[@polloloci21]

This is awesome. Thanks. I wonder if someone maybe had t he spec for that stiffer spring and maybe we can find it in McMaster or Grainger. 🤔

[@jeffingalls7351]

What an incredible solution! Thanks so much for sharing this.

[@A2J_Tim]

you are so welcome, please share it with people so that they can also fix this issue the same way that is alot more cost effective and simple compared to replacing a part that does not need replacing.

[@traerunge7583]

Tim hello . Good video , however I believe it would help us viewers if we knew how long the original spring was before you stretched it as well a measurement to tell us how long it was after you stretched it. Because the length of the stretch put on the spring determines pressure . I did see in one of your response comments not to exceed 20 psi on the spring . I understand that statement . And I will not exceed 20psi when I put air to it to check the pins functioning. Still I believe how much stretch you put on that spring would really help . A before stretch measurement and an after stretch spring measurement . Thanks again for the video Tim !

[@A2J_Tim]

I will keep that in mind for the next one I do on video.

[@stevec8912]

I have seen videos that its the phaser closest to the firewall? Do both of them have springs?

[@A2J_Tim]

you cant go by which phazer is closest to the fire wall, because some engine lay outs reverse the engine lay out, you must go buy which cam shaft is the intake camshaft. Which is really easy to tell the intake camshaft is closest to the intake manifold and the exhaust camshaft is closest to the exhaust manifold. Some engines the intake manifold is on the fire wall side and other engines the exhaust manifold is on the fire wall side. the rattle is always the intake came gear from what I have seen.

[@stevec8912]

@A2J_Tim ok. I have the 2010 camry 2.5 so my intake is on firewall side. But that's good to know that it's always on intake side. I never did anything this difficult but I might have to try since mechanics around me won't go into engines any more

[@A2J_Tim]

@@stevec8912 crazy that mechanics wont go into it. if you were near me I would do it of you.

[@imreszarvak817]

Great solution! How can I recognize that which gear causing the noise during cold start? My rav4 2.0 fuel 2010 year does it recently when the temperature going under 10 Celsius.

[@A2J_Tim]

it seems to be the intake cam gear across all platforms with this noise.

[@russelloppenheimer3970]

This is brilliant! Not simply because of the part cost, but because of the labor to replace. On the 3.5L 2gr fe, you're supposed to drop entire motor trans subframe to replace these. A 25 hour, $7k job! A caution. I would use locktite on those bolts. If they ever worked loose, it'd be a disaster. Toyota may have used some sort of locking technique during part manufacture. Like altered threads or thread surface treatment or a locktite type treatment. Safe and easy insurance. I would also remove lock pin and thoroughly clean pin and bore. Any oil varnish deposits can gum the pin up, making it harder on the spring. I'd also polish the pin best I could, so it can glide smoother. Put it in drill and spin it with a fine steel wool, #0000, or a fine scotchbrite pad. Then some actual metal polish. Reverse it in drill, polish other end. Hopefully have drill large enough to fit it. Also note, on older versions of these gears, there were issues with pin expanding with heat. Slightly too large once up to temp, would jamb in bore. Also some versions where lock pin engagement hole weak metal, hole would oval. This fix can't overcome such design flaws. In those cases you'd have to replace gearset.

[@simohyykila2405]

Great Fix! One thing though; I would think turning the engine with the cam is high stress on those parts. much less if you use the crank bolt.

[@A2J_Tim]

you are correct, the more right way is to turn the crank shaft, but im not that concerned about it as their is alot more force on those cams when the engine is running.

[@64arguz]

I’m going to try this if the new cam phaser fails, this is the only complaint I’ve from my Camry, took the old “rattling” cam phaser, opened and inside is spotless, no physical damage, no scratches, no deposit, no dirt, pin work fine, I do my oil change every 5k using synthetic Mobil 1 EP my engine also clean inside 🤦‍♂️THANKS FOR THE VIDEO 👍🏻💪🏻

[@A2J_Tim]

to date my gear has not rattled ever since I did this its been over 10000 km since then .

[@64arguz]

@@A2J_Tim definitely I’ll try the spring “trick” , I cranked up my Camry with the second Toyota brand new phaser and the rattling was heard in Paris 🤦‍♂️I’m speechless… I verified is unlocked and then is locked before installing everything back ☹️

[@NilezII]

What size is the OE wrench used to turn the camshaft? I'll be working on a Camry, but I assume the same size wrench?

[@A2J_Tim]

if I remember right it was 24 mm

[@RoyS-p4t]

Great video. is the other vvt sprocket also repairable? The one with the coil spring expsosed on the front?

[@A2J_Tim]

the exhaust cam gear does not have the same problem as it is a different design.

[@rocknrollermann]

@@A2J_Tim The Car Care Nut changed the back gear on 1 vid...? js..

[@A2J_Tim]

@@rocknrollermann thats because if your changing the chain and the intake cam gear you mide aswell change the exhaust cam gear too, no point only changing the intake cam gear when you are that far into it.

[@danieloneill4356]

@@rocknrollermann TCCN was working on a 2ARFE engine in that video. The back gear is the intake on those engines.

[@rocknrollermann]

@@danieloneill4356 That would make sense, then. thx.

[@tylerparish5463]

Wow awesome video man

[@mvnga3362]

its need to be lock position to able to start the engine right? thanks for sharing

[@A2J_Tim]

That is correct, when you shut the car off the lock pin Engauge's and keeps the cam solid for the next start up, once the engine starts the ecu controls oil pressure flow to the gear to unlock the gear so it can change its timing based on its programed map.

[@russelloppenheimer3970]

Well no. Its SUPPOSED to be locked, but if that lock pin fails to fully engage for any of the reasons below, engine will still start, but it'll hella rattle. Weak spring as shown in this video Poor oil change history, dirty oil deposits making lock pin stick in its bore Older style cam gears, lock pin too big, as metal heats up it can stop sliding in bore Older style cam gear, lock pin engagement hole can become ovaled out, as poor quality metal used. Rattles in oversize hole

[@ClassicManQtr]

Thanks for the video ❤🎉

[@MrNazcac2]

Any idea...Where can I get a new stiffer spring...

[@A2J_Tim]

I got mine from a click pen, lol. Its still working and its been 30k KM since the repair.

[@danieloneill4356]

I got mine from Temu. I used a 7mmx0.7mmx25mm spring and I put a 5mmx0.5mmx25mm spring inside the larger spring as a helper.

[@spring-start]

did you try spring start VTC?

[@danieloneill4356]

@@spring-start At $35 for three springs, I'd recommend people shop elsewhere. I purchased my new springs for 5 cents each, including shipping.

[@spring-start]

@@danieloneill4356 good luck with that. Spring-Start VTC includes the bit, instructions and support and Springs made in North America that are custom ground by hand to specification. You get what you pay for. If you want a deal we have a 20% off coupon code for when your Chinese spring fails: springfix Lots of people spend $20 on a access bit set so the math is off.

[@benk.9889]

That's an amazing fix! Thanks for sharing. I wonder if it would be the same on my 2011 toyota sienna with the 1AR-FE (4cyl) engine. Been having this rattle for the last 50k

[@A2J_Tim]

I dont know for sure but it likely will if the gear is the same design.

[@TheOneinthewoods]

Question please?⁉️ 09 corolla S 168k miles Always had cold start rattle but didn't know what it was til now Problem: I've got a timing belt cover leak Daily spot on driveway Timing cover area has oil gunk all around it Could this video be my answer to the leak? If so, is it too late now that it's already showing problems with the leak? Note: no other engine noises and has good power Thank you for any advice

[@A2J_Tim]

the leak is unrelated to the rattle and your timing cover is likely leaking, It is however possible that your valve cover is leaking in which case yes doing this job would also solve the leak as you have to replace that gasket when you do this job. how ever if its the timing chain cover you have to remove so much stuff that your most of the way through the job that you mind as well replace a timing chain and the cam gears as well. it is also possible that your timing chain tensioner is leaking, Its really hard to say with out seeing it in person.

[@NilezII]

I have watched videos on how to replace the entire cam gear, and they involve either pulling the timing cover or the camshafts, both of which would make me nervous. Your way, you don't mess with the timing AT ALL. Those videos also point to a dirty engine as the cause, which I seriously doubt in my case, after regular oil changes with good oil. They also address that dopey little filter, which I doubt is fouled on my car. Our Pal Car Care Nut Ahmed (great videos) addresses the importance of installing the new gear in the UNLOCKED position, so I will have to re-watch this a couple of times until I get that part. Silly question: is the valve cover attached with a gasket or sealant?

[@A2J_Tim]

dirty engine can cause the issue for sure, as extended oil changes have more contamination in it from blow by, also cheap oil breaks down faster, both will cause a sludge build up and make the metal surfaces a bit sticky which will cause the park pin in the cam gear to not slide smoothly and there for not seat properly causing this rattle. That mixed with a weak spring to push the pin into place cause this issue. I dont know why they say to install the cam shaft in the unlocked position other than maybe they want the new part to get some oil in it on first start up. because every time you shut the car off it the cam goes into the locked position so that its ready for the next start up. its been nearly 30,000 km since I did this repair and it has never rattled once since. the #1 issue is 100% a weak spring from factory, #2 Issue is lack of maintenance. the valve cover is sealed with a rubber gasket, typically they dab a small amount of sealant on the seems where the timing cover meets the head, just to fill the little crack where the valve cover mates to the head and timing cover.

[@reedkellam2285]

This is awesome. GF's car has had a very mild vvti rattle on cold start, so I figure I'll do this a little farther down the road if it gets any worse instead of replacing that whole gear. One question; before even going this far, have you ever tried cleaning the vvti solenoids to alleviate the rattle? Seems like an easy way I might be able to make the problem a little bit better to push off having to do this. Thanks!

[@A2J_Tim]

Its not a bad Idea to clean the solinoid's but if they are dirty you are using the wrong engine oil and need to switch to a high grade synthetic like amsoil or Valvoline restore and protect. that being said, the rattle is caused by the cam gear park pin, if its not seated all the way down it will rattle on start up, its the springs job to make sure that it is seated, if its not it rattles.

[@danieloneill4356]

Do it sooner rather than later. It's only going to get worse and the chain will break the top chain guide and it will also compromise the teeth on the cam gear. The sooner you fix it the less damage you will experience.

[@Vinny_Tang]

How is the car now? Still no rattle?

[@A2J_Tim]

still no rattle, car has nearly 20k on it since the repair.

[@jafaary2614]

Where i get new spring from?

[@A2J_Tim]

I got mine from a click pen, lol.

[@tellsthetruth894]

Thank you for the video. I need to ask you a couple of questions pls: could you please clarify how you identified the location of the spring as related to a bolt head position. since all bolt heads were the same. It is critical that the location of the spring to be at the top when the cover is removed so it doesn't fall out if at the bottom. You said you added a pen spring. Where in gear mechanism did you add the pen spring. Are the stronger springs available anywhere. My last question is; at end of your video you said "if" you want to activate the pin, you introduce air in one port and rock the cam shaft, then its ready to go. Is introducing air in that port a requirement, or is the modification complete without adding the pressurized air. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my concerns. My 2007 Rav4 2.4 L with 207k miles makes same rattle sound, unfortunately.

[@A2J_Tim]

1. I watched another video of a guy taking it apart. 2. I show where to add the spring in the video if you watch it, I was trying to be a clear as I know how to be. 3. if you are asking about just replacing the spring with a stiffer one, I dont know if or where they are available, this was a solution that I came up with rather than spending hours searching the internet or going to town and talking to every parts store in town which likely would have been futile. 4. I took a few pen springs apart till I found one that fit inside of the factory toyota spring which effectively added more tension helping the factory spring do its job, you can buy cheap pens at any dollar store. 5. you dont need to add air to that port to finish the job, the reason I did that was to verify my work that the spring pin was going to activate like it will in normal operation. The more important part is to make sure the pin locks into place, so rock the engine back and forth by hand in both directions until the pin locks the gear out, this will ensure that the pin is in place for engine start up.

[@tellsthetruth894]

@@A2J_Tim say Tim, before you removed the four bolts on the front plate, how did you actually decide where the spring was located behind the plate. Which of the bolts was the spring closest to, before removing any of the bolts. Thank you.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@tellsthetruth894 from another youtuber who took a gear apart, I figured out where the spring should be based on stamp or casting marks on the gear, I looked for those casting marks and marked off where I thought the spring should be and I was right. However if you are having difficulty with this I would suggest just removing all the bolts and the plate to see where it is, mark your gear with paint marker or sharpy marker then put one or 2 bolts back in just barely snug then roll the engine over till your spring is in a position like mine in the video so that you have easy access too it.

[@tellsthetruth894]

Thank you very much, I will do that. Much appreciated.

[@rocknrollermann]

Crucial question..

[@pecosimplu7070]

My 1zr-fe rattles for a few seconds only when cold start after sits 2-3 days unstarted. If i start the engine after 10-12 hours does not rattle. What could it be? Thanks

[@A2J_Tim]

I dont know exactly why it does it but it is related to the spring pressure on that park pin. might have somthing to do with heat and oil contracting once it cools off moving the pin slightly out of the bore.

[@MPBrewster]

I don't think the gear will rattle as long as the chambers inside the gear are still oil filled. Maybe after 12 hours there is oil but after 48 hrs the oil is out and allows the flopping of those arms. Just a guess.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@MPBrewster its not the arms that make the rattle noise, is the park pin that locks the gear out that makes the rattle noise. if the pin is out even a little bit, it will make the rattle noise.

[@MPBrewster]

@@A2J_Tim If that's the case, and I'm beginning to understand this better, then it would seem the rattle only lasts as long as it takes to jiggle the tapered pin out of it's socket. That would make sense since the rattle only lasts a second +/-. The problem then is that the pin is released prematurely and without the actuation of oil pressure. There are a few videos out there that describe the internal workings of the mechanism but I've yet to learn when the pin is supposed to release to allow vvtiming. Your explanation of the pin not seating all the way makes sense, especially considering your results. Maybe the pin is released even with idle oil pressure and then the chambers fill with oil and take over the fixing of the 2 parts of the gear assembly to lock the camshaft? Mine is an '09 Matrix, same motor as yours, but with less than 60k. I only hear the rattle when the engine is warm during a restart when the car sits for 30-90 minutes. And that's not often. I could theorize that the spring is weaker when hot and not pressing the pin into the bore all the way. Once things cool the tapered pin finally seats. But that would mean other cars should hear the rattle when hot but everyone says it's when the car is cold. Car has good history of 3k oil changes at dealer before I got it. As I dig into this I am amazed at how many Toyota engines have some sort of valve gear rattle, Lexus too, yet they are of different natures. I have to also assume that despite your 20k success, eventually the spring(s) will succumb to fatigue and you'll be making the repair again. I do see that Honda has replacement springs for their cam gears. There are videos that talk about the lobes breaking off. Car care nut has a severe warning on the subject and suggests that this pin problem leads to the more severe one. You are very kind to respond to the comments here. Plus you've done a great service to your fellow DIY'ers with this cheap and effective fix. Thank you.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@MPBrewster The pin is released as soon as oil pressure hits it. The purpose of the pin is to lock the gear because oil pressure will bleed down out of the gear when the car is shut off and it takes a few seconds for those parts to be re-pressurized so that the ecu can control the cam timing. Car care nut is partly right and partly wrong, He is right that if the pin wasnt there the ears would eventually break off and would lead to catastrophic engine failure. where he is wrong is he thinks the rattle is coming from the cam knocking back and forth on those ears, If that were the case he would be right that it could lead to a really bad engine failure and it is very likely you would get a cam correlation code as cam timing would be way out side of the commanded range every time you started the engine up for a few seconds. The sole cause of the noise is the pin rattling back and forth because it is not seated in the bore all the way and a stiffer spring is the fix that solves the problem. I first learned about it in the honda k24 engines that are in honda crv's, they have the same rattle and the fix is stretching the spring or a stiffer spring, so I applied what I learned from the honda engine to the toyota engine and sure enough it works.

[@AlexDiaz-iw3zz]

Would this work the same on the 2011 camry 4 cyl too?

[@A2J_Tim]

I dont know for sure, It might if the gear is of the same design which it likely is. if your intake cam gear has a plate with the little bolts that hold the cover on like this one, it will.

[@amdinside5383]

​@A2J_Tim what's the length and diameter of the spring after it's stretched?

[@A2J_Tim]

@@amdinside5383 I didnt measure it, I just eye balled it.

[@amdinside5383]

@@A2J_Tim Thanks

[@amer1canalex]

Great video

[@chaserobins1788]

Will this work on a 2.5l scion tc

[@A2J_Tim]

if it has the same style cam gear it will.

[@chaserobins1788]

Its a 2ar-fe

[@A2J_Tim]

@@chaserobins1788 same engine, so yes it will work.

[@rocknrollermann]

I've worked on my Toyotas' for decades but I've never "had air".. I dont know how to use it. Would've been nice to see it.

[@howiedang]

Hey Tim, Did you ever replaced the camshaft bearing cap oil hole gaskets? I have a new valve cover gasket, but not sure how the other camshaft gasket's condition. i think i'm going to replace it all since i have it opened, just wondering if you did. Thanks for the video, this is super informative.

[@A2J_Tim]

I did not because it was still soft. but it not a bad idea to get them so you can if they are rock hard, if you dont need them you can always return them as long as the package is not open.

[@howiedang]

@A2J_Tim sounds good! Hopefully once I button it all up, I won't have to get back in it for a while.

[@charlespratt8663]

If you can't buy a replacement spring I wonder if you could shim the original.

[@A2J_Tim]

you probably could, but I opted to just ad a spring out of a pen, it fit nicely inside the original spring and added a little bit more tension. you could also take the spring to a hard ware store and find one of similar size with more tension that would work aswell. Just make sure it doesnt exceed 10 psi of pressure that way the piston can move out of the way with oil pressure as its designed too. Oil pressure is likely over 25 psi at idle. and probably above 45 psi when reving above 2k rpm

[@GunnersCarHole]

Would this be on the 2.4ltr and 1.8ltr?

[@A2J_Tim]

@@GunnersCarHole 1.8, but I'm confident this will work for the 2.4 aswell, I did this on a honda crv with a k24 engine that also had the same rattle, just stretch that spring and the rattle stops.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@GunnersCarHole 1.8 but would also work for the 2.4

[@A2J_Tim]

@@GunnersCarHole yes

[@NilezII]

Another question: Is the camshaft you're working with the exhaust cam? How did you know which one was causing the rattle?

[@A2J_Tim]

its the intake cam that I am working with and its common knowledge that the rattle is the intake cam gear if it sounds like this. If the sound is continuous its something else.

[@lmfinato]

WHy did you do the exhaust gear? It's the intake gear that makes the rattle

[@A2J_Tim]

I did do the intake cam gear. The intake cam is closest to the front of the car in this corolla. The exhaust cam is closest to the fire wall.

[@lmfinato]

@@A2J_Tim It just looked so weird because they made that bulge on the timing cover to be able to get the gear out without removing the cover. So kinda weird they put the bulge where the exhaust gear is. Oh well. Goo demo though. Have a Camry doing this, might just attempt that myself

[@DIYCOMMUNITYHACK]

After 4 months, Does still work until now?

[@A2J_Tim]

yes it does, hasnt rattled once since I did this repair.

[@DIYCOMMUNITYHACK]

@@A2J_Tim thank you, i will fix my brother in law car tomorrow.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@DIYCOMMUNITYHACK 0:54 is where I talk about the tool for removing the plate on the cam gear including the size.

[@MC-ft8zv]

Well I did my Rav4 2.5, now it won't rev past 4000RPm..I've obviously done something wrong. Any ideas?

[@A2J_Tim]

does it run smooth until 4k rpm? if it does check your electrical connections, make sure every thing is plugged in and check your grounds.

[@MC-ft8zv]

@@A2J_Tim Thanks, yeah I went through and checked all those..silly thing is it wont rev past 4000RPM sitting there, but when driving, it revs past 4000 easily. Weird. Still has the rattle though. But, it is a bit different to your engine, looks the same series. Time for a new car. But appreciate you doing the video, I'm sure it has helped many people. Thank You

[@A2J_Tim]

@@MC-ft8zv It drive fine though? The 4k rpm limit is likely programing and not related to the job you did. I havent revved my corolla to 4k rpm in park to see if it would go past that, but many manufacturers do program limits into the ecu to prevent abuse. Their are rpm limits also based on engine temp. I have seen it when Diagnosing problems in fords and chevy's.

[@MC-ft8zv]

@@A2J_Tim yeah, wasn't temp related. And it drives perfectly, just did a cold start and rattle remains. I'm wondering if the pin was damaged slightly through the rattling over time ( car is newish to me). Never mind, was worth a try. I'll get a solid price on replacement, but a quick off his head quote was 2-3000 NZD. Cheers

[@A2J_Tim]

@@MC-ft8zv sorry it didnt work out for you. Mine is still rattle free since I did the repair.

[@tommygomez5343]

Will a T30 Torx Bit work and does it need to be the Tamperproof Torx Bit?

[@A2J_Tim]

torx bits are 6 point, these are 5 point bits.

[@tommygomez5343]

@@A2J_Tim Thank you for pointing that out.

[@tonyalcantar8378]

Would it be the same procedure on a 2012 toyota camry se 2.5?

[@A2J_Tim]

I dont know for sure but it likely is, if it were me I would take it apart just to find out.

[@tonyalcantar8378]

​@@A2J_Tim I'm going to have to do that! Thanks man!

[@A2J_Tim]

@@tonyalcantar8378 keep me posted, im curious.

[@danieloneill4356]

Yes, I just did a 2012 Camry 2AR engine. The bolts will just come out passed the timing chain cover. Also, I replaced the factory spring with a 7mm x 0.7mm x 25mm spring instead of stretching the OEM spring. Total cost for repair was 1 hour of my time and 5 cents for a spring.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@danieloneill4356 And it works great now doesnt it.

[@jameshanshaw516]

Do you think this would a toyota 2.5liter engine. My rav 4 is making the same sound on cold starts. Also, what brand of pen did you get the spring from?

[@A2J_Tim]

yes I think the fix is the same for the rav, as for the pen spring, I just took apart pens till I found one that had a spring that fit inside the factory spring, its only there to add a little bit Of extra tension.

[@jameshanshaw516]

@@A2J_Tim Cool, I'm going to give it a shot. If it works you just saved me $500 plus. I appreciate the info man thanks.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@jameshanshaw516 if the gear is the same design which it most likely is, It will work..

[@nbtextremes]

did i just hear "metacle partcles"..lol... great video tho man !!

[@A2J_Tim]

That is likely what came out of my mouth, but I did mean metal particles, I have mild speech impairment where my words dont match my thoughts and they get lost some where in translation.

[@nbtextremes]

@A2J_Tim no worries brotha.. appreciate everything you do helping us out with your channel

[@iftorres]

Good video, I have a Corolla 2012 1.8L, Could this procedure be applied to this model?

[@A2J_Tim]

yes

[@iftorres]

@ Another question: Which is the size of the big wrench used to move the Camshaft?

[@A2J_Tim]

@@iftorres I dont recall off the top of my head but it looks like 24 mm in the video, you can see it written on the wrench.

[@abdullahmalak2671]

so there is 2 gear which one I should fix some people change the intake gear and you fix the second gear could you clarify?

[@A2J_Tim]

I fixed the intake cam gear, that is the one that makes noise, its the common problem on vvti engines.

[@abdullahmalak2671]

@@A2J_Tim one more question sir I have the same exact sound when I start the engine on cold start but if start the engine after during the day when it is a little warm up it will make other sound less intense gargling_like sound for afew seconds dose it relate to the same problem?

[@A2J_Tim]

@@abdullahmalak2671 not likely related, gargling sound could be related to air in the cooling system, in your heater core.

[@abdullahmalak2671]

@@A2J_Tim the thing that make me suspicious its related is when I start the engine when the engine is cold it just make the sound on the video no thing more but afterwards when then engine is relatively warm when i start the engine it make sound for afew seconds until the rpm is low however the sound its not gargling_like per se its sound like the head of engine is not soft or it is not lubricated very well

[@A2J_Tim]

@@abdullahmalak2671 you should do a video on it so I can take a listen.

[@JasonT00]

Bro you’re pro 👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼

[@iftorres]

I’ve followed this procedure and works fine, but if I pay attention very carefully the rattle still sounds very very attenuated, it is normal?, maybe I’m too much exigent. 😮

[@A2J_Tim]

did you ad a pen spring? if yes, you may have a timing chain tensioner rattle.

[@iftorres]

@ Not of course

[@AstroPL_420]

Anyone know if a Compression Spring - 22 mm x 100 mm would work?

[@danieloneill4356]

The OEM spring is about 21mm long x 6mm diameter, so the the spring you're proposing is far too big.

[@AstroPL_420]

@ Thanks for the reply! Found the proper sized spring once I had the Cam Gear dismantled and seen the Oem one last week though, but still appreciate it!

[@jrg116]

​@AstroPL_420 what spring did you use?

[@AstroPL_420]

@ I kept the original spring that was already in the Cam Gear and added a stretched spring from a Sharpie S-Gel pen inside the original spring (the S-Gel models have a stronger spring than most pens). I’m just about 10k miles since the repair and the noise is still gone without any issues whatsoever!

[@1stb1]

was the space under the timing gear tight enough that you didn't have to worry too much about dropping the bolts inside, or did you have to be really careful? did you reuse the oil tube gaskets and valve cover gasket, or got new ones? wonder why Toyota doesn't want anyone taking the timing gear apart. the service manual says never to use the timing gear if those 4 small bolts on the cover are ever removed.

[@A2J_Tim]

1. Yes you have to be very carful not to drop the bolts. 2. I did re use my gasket as it was still good, you will have to judge that for your self based on how hard it is, mine was still soft. 3.I think Toyota wants you to buy a new gear instead of fixing your old gear, thats why they say never to re use it.

[@russelloppenheimer3970]

​@@A2J_Timmanufacturers usually just wants parts replaced, not fixed. That provides consistency of repair. Not have to worry about technicians that aren't as capable. Also part can have other issues, so replacing entire part takes care of other possible updates to the whole thing.

[@MC-ft8zv]

Hi just a question, you mention intake, but you are doing the exhaust cam gear? My 2015 Rav4 has this rattle and it drives me crazy. Thank You sir for the video!

[@A2J_Tim]

nope I am doing the intake cam gear in this video. the exhaust cam is closest to the firewall on this engine and so is the exhaust manifold.

[@MC-ft8zv]

@@A2J_Tim Sorry my mistake, it's the other way around on my Rav4. Guess I'll be looking at the rear gear. Thanks again

[@johnwaynewilliamson]

Seems the 2ARFE engine in the 2014 rav4 has a slightly different intake cam gear that can't be serviced while in place. Bummer.

[@A2J_Tim]

that sux.

[@danieloneill4356]

I did mine. You just need to loosen all of the VVTI gear cover bolts and then remove them one at a time. So, you have to spin the cam shaft a couple of times to loosen and remove the bolts and then another couple of times to get them back in again and tighten them. The bolts only just clear the timing cover, but it can be done.

[@tommygomez5343]

@@danieloneill4356 How many degrees would you say you rotated the cam? 90, 180 or more? I'm working on a 2ARFE right now. I got all 4 bolts out and removed the cam cover and removed the spring. I'm trying to get the cam cover back on but the shaft is stuck (the shaft the spring sits in) like it wont slide all the way back in. I may have rotated the cam to much. I don't know where to go from here.

[@danieloneill4356]

@@tommygomez5343 I used a magnet to extract the pin from the gear. I used a 24mm wrench on the cam's hex (it's in the middle of the cam) to rotate the cam until the pin hole in the lined up with the locked position. Then I installed the pin and the new heavier spring and the cam gear cover. Overall, I probably rotated the camshaft 3 or 4 times all the way around by the time I'd removed all the cover bolts and re-installed them.

[@tommygomez5343]

@@danieloneill4356 Thank you very much. This information was very helpful. I was able to locate the hole the pin goes in.

[@roytritsch6273]

I have the problem on a 2009 corolla. The issue is slightly different as to when it reaches nominal operating temps, that is when it starts to rattle. It gets fairly louder while driving. It started out kinda intermittent then I noticed it staying consistent. Would trying this technique possibly help?

[@A2J_Tim]

no, your noise is not related to this problem, when the engine is running oil pressure releases the pin and the gear can move where ever the engine control module tells it to. So if you have a rattle while its running and warm your noise is likely related to your timing chain is stretched and you need a new one or your timing chain tensioner is not doing its job and you need a new one of those, either way get it looked at before it causes damage.

[@roytritsch6273]

@@A2J_Tim I've changed the tensioner, found old one cracked around the body. Glad I changed it. Also replaced both intake and exhaust vvti actuator valves. Changed the chain top slack guide. Chain seems ok as to timing marks all align properly when I was in there doing all that before I decide to try cam phasers. Doesn't seem to be lifter related. Oil was changed and all else seemed ok.

[@roytritsch6273]

Engine is quiet otherwise in all rpm ranges except when in gear and under load. It's strange. Performance is on part as to not slack in power other than at idle somewhat.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@roytritsch6273 its hard to say with out hearing it in person.

[@89Epro]

Anybody know the size of the spring

[@A2J_Tim]

I took a few pens apart to find one that fit inside of the factory one, pens are super cheap.

[@Yourmanisbroke]

Great now I get to do it to my 300k miles Camry🙏🏼

[@chaserobins1788]

What year and model

[@franciswestfield3279]

Great solution Do you know if this will work on a Highlander with 2GRFE 3.5 ? Also is the stronger spring available as a new part?

[@A2J_Tim]

if the gear is of similar design which it likely is, it will work. as for the updated part I dont know that for sure.

[@russelloppenheimer3970]

​​​​​​@@A2J_Timwon't work on 2grfe 3.5L. But something similar might. See second half of this video, which shows intake gear disassembly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYS5g3tol9Fjp9U You'd face several hurdles. Center bolt that attaches gear to cam would have to come off, as the plate you remove is also held on by center bolt. Then lock pin is at the bottom, can't even see it until you completely disassemble gear. All those little apex seals and their little springs would all have to come out. Chances of none of them falling into engine is nil. Also, it doesn't really have a tapered pin. So unlikely same fix would work anyway. But! Looking at linked video, what you might be able to do is remove the entire gear housing, but leave the chain and sprocket in car. So loosen, but do not remove the 4 odd torx 5 spline bolts. Then barely loosen, do not remove center bolt. Now pry the entire housing away from sprocket plate. Once main housing free, remove the 4 bolts first, then center bolt. Carefully make sure sprocket stays with cam. There is a locating pin in sprocket that should help it stay with cam. Immediately put the center bolt back in place to hold sprocket, so chain doesn't skip tooth, etc. Now take housing to bench. Disassemble, careful not to lose apex seals and springs. Do lock pin spring fix. Reassemble, return to engine. The gotcha is if you can fully remove that center bolt before it contacts timing chain cover. Might have to remove cam caps, lift cam a bit. That would also require main timing chain slack for the intake sprocket. Exhaust you could probably do this much easier. But if cam caps have to come off, might as well remove entire gear from cam, leave chain hanging.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@russelloppenheimer3970 wow they made those ones alot more complicated to get appart.

[@Zaikclon950]

will this work the same for 1zz fe(2005 corolla)? I have the same dreaded cold start rattle

[@A2J_Tim]

It most likely will, I havent done it to that engine yet, but its probably the same design.

[@Zaikclon950]

@@A2J_Tim update! so i did it to my 2005 corolla and it kinda worked. It used to rattle almost every start up, but now it only rattles on cold start. Any recommendation? I did the exact same thing, stretched the spring and added a pen spring.

[@A2J_Tim]

@@Zaikclon950 you may possibley have another rattle not related to the cam gear, you might have a tension-er gone bad or going bad. did the piston move freely in the bore or was it a bit sticky?

[@Zaikclon950]

@@A2J_Tim So i actually replaced the tensioner first to try and fix the rattle. When i rotate the cam, theres a bit of resistance in certain position

[@A2J_Tim]

@@Zaikclon950 its possible that you have a lifter that is bleeding down when its shut off over night, and fills back up once its running, but usually a lifter will tick for awhile before it stops ticking, Its hard to say with out seeing the car in person to identify if its the same tick or not.

[@nickscognarealtor4045]

Okay I can be there tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. What's the address, and how much do you charge for this job? 😊

[@stickman-1]

Great job.............. however I would never put those bolts in w/o loctite! Please take off the valve cover and put some loctite on those bolts. (Stress is not the problem, vibration is.)

[@A2J_Tim]

nah I think I will leave it, I have never seen bolts like that vibrate out that I have tightened in my 20 year career of being a mechanic.

[@danieloneill4356]

@@A2J_Tim Some of the early 3.5 2GR FE engines bolts did come loose on the cam phasers, but it wasn't a common problem.

[@64arguz]

Is there something I don’t get it …if the phaser gets in a locked position when you turn off the car why when you crank it up next morning it rattles ?

[@A2J_Tim]

the spring is weak and cant hold the pin in tight enough, the pin itself is a tapered fit as shown in the video, If the spring is too weak the tapered pin walks out of the bore and that is the rattle you hear. Once you put a stronger spring it the tapered pin sits down tighter and prevents the gear from moving until oil pressure comes up and pushes the pin into the spring, after that the ecu has full control over the timing of the gear and can adjust it how its programmed too. the whole purpose of that pin is to keep the gear solid until the oil pressure comes up in the engine after initial start up.

[@thepokeybear6070]

Incredible when the dealer wants how many ThoUsands of dollars to fix, should have been a RECALL !!

[@peterb344]

You said apply air. WHERE do I apply the air?????

[@A2J_Tim]

the port my finger is closest too when I point.

[@MPBrewster]

Take a look at the intake vvt gear bolt heads on this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJbbY5Zmet6WmZI fast forward to 4:32. On your engine I'm somewhat surprised at how loose the timing chain appears to be a little before and after 7:00 in the video. Does the tensioner take up the slack with oil pressure or other means?

[@A2J_Tim]

that is interesting, might be an older car, like 07 08 or 09, My corolla is a 2011. Yes the tensioner works based on oil pressure, looks like this one failed and the chain became loose causing the problem in the video you posted.

[@NilezII]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoCqqpV8ftaCf6s at about 16:35 he disassembles the old gear and describes EXACTLY the problem you are talking about! "This little spring is trying to..."

[@A2J_Tim]

when he takes the gear apart, it slid smoothly for the amount it needed too, it only got stuck when it went past the point of where the backing plate would be. The number 1 problem with these gears is the spring is not stiff enough to actuate that pin properly. which will amplify number 2 problem of potential sticky spot from sludge if regular oil changes are not performed. a stiffer spring will over come a potential sticky spot in the future because the main problem is the spring is not stiff enough and its tension also weakens over time with heat cycles. I am at 30,000 km since my repair with an added spring and it has not rattled since the repair which is it self a testament to my theory in practice.