Toyota Sienna: Crank, No Start

In a previous video • Jeep Grand Cherokee Fa... I was on a road call and I mentioned I had to look at a Toyota Sienna for a no start condition and it was a pretty fast diagnosis. Thought you might find it interesting. Sorry it was not to in depth but I don't like recording at other shops to much when I am called in to look at a car. -Enjoy!
If an SMA Video has helped you out please consider giving using "Patreon" to help support us. The videos take real time to create and pull us away from real work that pays our bills. CLICK HERE: / southmainauto
CHECK OUT OUR "SMA SWAG" STORE! Go on Teespring and get your very own SMA merch!
teespring.com/...
If you don't like Patreon feel free to use the "PayPal Me" link: www.paypal.me/...
The South Main Auto Amazon Store:
www.amazon.com...
AES Wave Automotive Diagnostic Tools: www.aeswave.co...
Thank you for all the continuing support!
--Eric & Vanessa O.
Feel like sending some swag to SMA because you love the videos but don't know where to send it?
Just ship it here:
South Main Auto Repair
47 S. Main St
PO Box 471
Avoca, NY 14809
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. South Main Auto Repair assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. South Main Auto Repair recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained.

[@nedalwaleed1583]

I am Nedal from Jordan watching all the videos you are broadcasting. You taught me a lot and lots about ways to maintain American cars. Thank you very much Eric

[@klwthe3rd]

Even with all the videos out on this procedure, it still amazes me how you can tell all that information(broken timing belt) from using your picoscope. Using something electrical to find a mechanical problem seems unnatural but yet it's so highly effective. It saves both time and money to the customer. I wish my local mechanic was that talented. :-(

[@Blazer02LS]

Really no different than using an EKG to detect a problem with a heart or an EEG to look for issues in the brain.

[@throttlebottle5906]

my ears could tell, even with it being camera/youtube audio........... of course I had allready assumed the belt was broken, with the title "crank, no start" it's common for fools to not change them then wonder why it's broken =p

[@justinfitzgerald3847]

It’s the scope... and experience

[@wyattoneable]

As you say, lots of videos but it's always good to see a reminder. It would help to show how the leads are hooked up for beginners. :)

[@SouthMainAuto]

I will remember that for next time. Thanks for the reminder :)

[@REPOOCNITSUJ]

@@SouthMainAuto i agree, as a new scope user, knowing how and where to hook up the leads is one of the most confusing parts for me! Great video!

[@ivanhernandez6584]

I just want 20k to buy the picco and whatever else you use

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

Modern test equipment is priceless in t-shooting. Thanks for showing how it works!

[@iannamico]

Dr. O's integrity is what makes him such an awesome mechanic/problem solver.

[@CubasAutomotive]

One of easiest ways to get a quick view on the engine, by the relative compression test. Whoa!! All of a sudden the videos are as short as Keith's!! Lol

[@NewLevelAuto]

Editing 😉😁

[@SouthMainAuto]

Pfff skills haha

[@CubasAutomotive]

@68Camaro RS/SS lol...IDK if you're kidding or not, but I'll answer. If you look here in my comments, New Level Auto.. that's Keith and a wiz with Diag. He's a mobile diagnostician based in Staten Island, NY. Great guy all around!

[@CubasAutomotive]

@68Camaro RS/SS yes, if you click on the icon above, where he posted, it'll take you directly to his channel.

[@CubasAutomotive]

@68Camaro RS/SS New Level Auto

[@ramos5875]

The Jedi Master of professional mechanics 🙏

[@normangallant9879]

Like that test.Something i did not realize especially this vehicle was out of time.Retired for 4 yrs & always learn from the younger guy.

[@sneakysnake109]

Awesome Eric. Thanks for showing that and explaining. The 3 pulses between the spark events had me very confused until you explained it. Thanks for sharing, you da man!

[@547Rick]

Wow! You are knocking them out faster than Keith!

[@NewLevelAuto]

🤔

[@SouthMainAuto]

Yeah, hopefully someday he will do them as quick as me but he is still on the learning path... 🤭😏

[@klwthe3rd]

Speed isn't always better you know. Quality is the key.

[@547Rick]

@@klwthe3rd Come on Kenneth! It was a joke.

[@klwthe3rd]

@@547Rick yeah sorry missed that one!

[@danielmoore6711]

Dude I wish I had known about this channel years ago. Idk why you didn't show up in my suggested videos till now. But you are now officially one of 5 people I am subscribed to. I've been dying for videos of real world diagnostics in action, and that's what you provide. Please keep the videos coming. I hope to work in a shop one day, and leaning from you and scanner danner is really helping me towards that goal. ✌

[@rrmech11]

Hey Eric My friend Mark has one that blew a hole in the rear valve cover. I think the phaser launched. He keeps asking me to help him fix it. I told him to buy another motor. He's in denial. Sharing this video with him now.

[@sheerwillsurvival2064]

Another excellent video. Two amp clamps .. brilliant!

[@justinfitzgerald3847]

A lot of guys are buying the uscope, professional and diy. Would be cool to see a relative compression test, pressure transducer, and injector test. Put that master kit to use AC filter and 10:1 attenuator used.

[@mikefedele4521]

I have tried to do that set up myself because it is fast and reliable. I can't get it to be as obvious on screen but I can get it. Great video.

[@billyyoder8171]

Thank you Eric O. I appreciate your videos. Good job.

[@spelunkerd]

Brilliant diagnostics, Many will find it especially helpful to pause the video at 1:01 and think it through.

[@davedeatherage4902]

There is only a handful of automobile mechanics I trust on KZbin, as I've been learning these last few years, I must say I trust Mr. Eric O. As being one of the few. He trouble shoots, and shows and explains procedure, and why? He's trouble shooting in a particular direction. Small diagnostic items are plentiful on KZbin, BUT ! More complicated procedures. Are rare. Intricate is the key to me, such as what's the full procedure for timing belt change on a interference engine,--- I'm still a beginner, .... You need cam tools- keeping cams in time, lock flywheel tool on my Ford, water pump change, top dead center pin, pulley change, all things beginner's need!,Mr. O. Meets that teaching challenge I believe, others can leave you hanging!, and interference engine's aren't. Forgiving, new timing belt at specific time to change, plus serpentine belt change, I KNEW NOTHING OF AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR 3 YEARS AGO!, thank you Mr. O!! I consider my self still a DIY'er beginner, ( I just used timing belt change as an example!)👍✌👌👏😊

[@mikechiodetti6737]

Scope testing seems to be the hot setup for engine mechanical diagnosis! Even I saw a problem in the scope pattern. Great Video!

[@dougtexas]

Good call using the pico, relative compression test. Quick look, reliable diagnostics, take the check, head for the ice cream parlor!

[@braol]

Great video showing the importance and value of a scope with a very simple test

[@aleblanc3547]

My favorite test to watch...it's like magic! Thanks Eric.

[@rimmersbryggeri]

it looks like you are getting vehicles to answer all my questions right now. :) Thaks for making these videos Eric.

[@101numlock]

Check the belt! 1mz-fe engine is non interference! Got a good deal on a Toyota Avalon because another shop wanted to put an engine in it and only needed 100 timing belt kit.

[@ahill007ny]

Eric said it's a 2005 Sienna which would have the 3MZ-FE Engine

[@ahill007ny]

It's a mixture of yes and no(s) there is a ton of people including here that says that the belt broke they put on a new belt and the engine was fine. Too bad it's not at Eric's shop, maybe if he had the time he could have done the Timing Job to see how it runs.

[@throttlebottle5906]

pretty sure "only" the oldest 1MZ-FE was non-interference. I believe all the timing components are the same still, but with head/valve/piston/stroke changes. it no longer has clearance ;)

[@christourand230]

Your one hell of a tech my friend. I very much enjoy watching your vids.👍 chris from prince george British Columbia canada

[@iamnoone.]

May you and your family have a great thanksgiving

[@screwstontx480]

Solid motor I own the 3.7 200,000 miles no problems with oil changes and tune up they last longer than the vehicle if taken care of stating that I live in Texas !!! Just keep in mind that you’d need to change the pcv valve ever so often

[@christopherkassner8894]

SMA on the road baby!!!!

[@aussiefirestorm]

Had a Lexus with similar sounding fault no start with good spark and injector pulse. It had been to at least 2 other workshops without fixing the problem, came to me with ECU on the floor and key transponder wiring hanging loose. Long story short the timing belt had skipped 2-3 teeth on one cam. Re-set to correct position and engine ran well.

[@zeropointzero]

Cool technology, man. Old school way works too for those of us who can't afford the tech.

[@thedogbarber]

It's finally happened. I am but a humble DIY'r who only does basic vehicle maintenance on his vehicles. My knowledge is very limited. But I have watched soooooo many SMA videos that when you showed the results on the screen, I actually knew what was wrong. Well how about that?!

[@NatHan-mi2lj]

experience is experience. KZbinrs like Eric O and Paul Danner have taught me a lot. Way easier than learning with your own knees and knuckles too.

[@Parknest]

I've noticed that a few people have commented that this is a non-interference engine (where pistons and valves don't occupy the same space) so it would be worth fitting a new timing belt. You should've taken the timing belt cover off just for grins & giggles and to prove your diagnosis correct. I once had a timing belt let go at 70mph. The car was a 1983 Triumph Acclaim (Honda Ballade built by British Leyland in the UK. The Ballade was the sedan version of the 2nd generation Civic) and once I'd got it recovered home I realized that it was spinning over quite quickly on the starter motor so I knew there was a lack of compression. There also was no spark (distributor runs off the overhead camshaft) which lead me to a broken timing belt because the camshaft wasn't turning. I had a new timing belt and once it was fitted it was fine. The Acclaim (the final Triumph car) has the Honda EN4 engine (1335cc 4 cylinder) which is non-interference.

[@lint2023]

Really interesting and informative. The use of the scope and the relative compression test is enlightening.

[@fixersautomotive4514]

3.0 and 3.3 Toyota V6 engines will not wack the valves. Ive done plenty of timing belts on these cars. Throw a new belt, she’ll be good to go!

[@mikeluscher159]

Oh yes they will Older non VVT-i 1MZ 3.0 engines aren't interference Later VVT-i 1MZ/3MZ V6s are indeed a very interference engine

[@James1toknow]

Just subscribed.. Been listening and watching for a few months. Enjoy your approach to troubles. I'm a long time DIY. GUY. grew up on 1960 and 70's big 3 cars here in Detroit. I feel ya with the salt belt. I have a modern car now with requires scan tools for proper trouble-shooting. Again thanks for the videos

[@bastianfromkwhbsn8498]

I guess there are only 3 compression humps between the spark event because it's a waste spark system?! So it fires the spark plug in the compression and the exhaust stroke. Or am I wrong on that?

[@NatHan-mi2lj]

Not a waste-spark system. It uses one ignition coil per cylinder. -There are only three compression humps because only three cylinders are compressing. On a V6 engine like this toyota if a timing belt is jumped, or out of time, one whole bank of three cylinders will loose some or all compression. Eric happens to have his ignition trigger on cylinder #6. You'll notice no compression coincides with the trigger. We can assume the mechanical timing is off on the front bank, bank 2. On an interference engine this could easily result in valve damage. Search youtube for other relative compression videos for more explanation.

[@fahisaurus]

Those Toyota V6's love to jump teeth. The hydraulic tensioner fails, jumps teeth. Usually they keep running and throw VVT codes.

[@alexandercopeland5087]

Speaking of vtt, I changed an a/c compressor and alternator on a 2006 Toyota Avalon. When I pulled it in money light was on and was running rough. I did the work he wanted, and he took it. Came back 5 mins later complaining about the light and running rough. Acting like I caused the problem. So I scanned it came up with random, 2,4,6 misfire and vvt bank 2. So checked oil, timing, and cleaned out vvt oil pressure solonoied. Cleared the light and drove it. Nothing came back on. On drive notice right rear bearing was humming, so told my boss. He takes and comes back next day complaining about the light being on and right rear bearing. He wanted us to take of it for free. I said no I told him he can get the bearing and the vvt part and I would throw in the vvt for free but would have to pay labor on the bearing or you can go to another shop to prove that it was my fault. So he took it and left. That was 1 1/2 week ago.

[@alexandercopeland5087]

Basically he wanted his car fixed for free. I also started scanning each vehicle that comes in with money light. Also his car had over 300,000 miles.

[@HondaSolutions]

Interference motor too. That’s too bad. Please post follow up!!

[@robinsonsmotorcycleandauto3929]

You sir need a new laptop lol. Great video and excellent testing with the Picoscope. Have found Gm 3.6 do this and a ford 5.4 do this where it was missing a bank of cylinders essentially thats why its very important to sync your channels as you did.

[@325xitgrocgetter]

But Scotty Kilmer says........

[@Viper81766]

Scotty says .... LSD :-)

[@davidn5861]

Of course someone who is biased will make up crap when the facts speak otherwise.

[@edwardmyers1746]

Forget scotty

[@MultiArrie]

that guy says nothing , he yells and screams only.

[@Todd.T]

@@MultiArrie I'm sure he's plastered when he does his videos...and when he doesn't...

[@phillipjones3342]

Hi Eric I was hoping to find one of your videos with the Toyota tundra pick up showing how to repair the vents selector have you done one

[@jamesbruno5896]

Awesome job Keith I mean Eric!

[@integra1121]

Nice. You should do a water pump replacement for a 03 and up saab 93.

[@brettseddon8652]

hi im from new zealand love your videos

[@zoticus1]

I think it's worth checking the timing marks ,I bet the valves are fine, it sounds just a little off so I doubt valves hit

[@gmw1964z]

Finally a Sienna video! I thought this was a non-interference engine? Should be no valve damage if the timing belt was bad? Would love to see the follow up on this.

[@yousif1810]

Very interesting what you do Thank you for this wonderful information

[@billburkart9087]

From my family to yours Eric have a good and safe Thanksgiving.

[@JD-iu3vi]

Thanks and you too.

[@RobertHancock1]

Gates timing belt guide shows this as a non-interference engine, so if it's just a busted timing belt they may be in luck.

[@throttlebottle5906]

think you'r looking at earlier models. the later model, I'm pretty sure are an interference engine

[@michaeldixon9847]

You are very personable and you have a great connection with your viewers Eric! Great teacher too! Are you hiring? Lol. Mike D from Fort St John, BC Canada

[@arthurfricchione8119]

Eric nice to see you use an amp clamp to sync the cylinder compression to the plug firing. Good video hope there is a follow up to show why it gave you that pattern. 👍

[@joelopez40oz23]

Is the amp clamp on the B+ wire or the IGT wire?

[@sherrytop2591]

I may be way off, but looks like evenly spaced starter load pulses, missing every second one. If all were there one would be very close to in time with the firing event. Could it be just the front camshaft out of time since that is where the spark event trigger is coming from. If the camshaft position sensor is on the rear camshaft the ECM would still think everything is in time thus letting spark and fuel injector pulse still occur. Would really like to see a follow up video. Thanks for keeping our brains working.

[@mikecont9742]

Very informative.. thanks for taking the time...

[@samrugtiv3839]

Good job

[@geoffrwelsh]

wouldn't have guessed an '05 unibody van would be worth putting an engine in, given your location

[@scowell]

One easy thing to do... open the oil filler and watch the camshaft movement... if any.

[@bigpappahemi4263]

You should ring the bell, ring the bell!

[@MrBugsier5]

this is to my nolege a non interference engine... just line it up, put a belt on it and it should be fine, (even shows that on the pico, compression of the cilinders is equall(they're both together, showing the same high amp draw from the startermotor, so no leaking or bend valves...)

[@eptyr12]

I wish you lived in Portland, OR, or at least have a contact here. I have a couple cars needing work but am really apprehensive about almost everyone I can look up around here.

[@anthonymason701]

If you were to imagine 3 more cylinder compression cycles on the scope (equally spaced) the ignition event would happen immediately before one of the missing compression events. I would bet the pistons smacked the valves on that bank...

[@dennisfairlie7080]

Though they’re a pain for you to record and you’re not working in optimal conditions, car repair house calls and fixing on the fly make for interesting episodes.We like to see improvisational and resourcefulness of a skilled mechanic under conditions that we DIYs are confronted with.

[@fire7765]

Diagnose Dan uses a ditex car scope i-tester

[@TheDisgruntledMechanic]

PICO for the win!

[@kennyback6931]

have you made a video of the tools you use for electrical.. that would be a great video

[@RustbeltMechanic]

Great Video man, I haven't had the chance in a while to use a relative compression test. Whats the best current clamps you like to use with your scopes?

[@markferraro5250]

great video Eric O way to use your trigger just for grins if the car is still in your presence could you capture the intake ,a front in cylinder transducer,the tailpipe, and the dipstick with your WPS500 using the same trigger for a comparasion thanks again

[@raybrensike42]

Timing belts. What is next? Plastic cams?

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Great short video Eric O

[@donnierobertson3088]

Great job again A+

[@petemedina8446]

That was very interesting we did the old fashion way with a compression tester or they would pull cover off. I thought these were a non-interference motors on these Toyotas?

[@geologic740]

Nice presentation. I'd like to know what's wrong with it. I experience more problems with Toyotas than Hondas for some reason.

[@mbs5328]

Maybe only three humps per coil trigger event because it's a waste spark system?

[@GK7GARAGE]

Hey Eric look at it now it's LLC

[@exmotorsports]

What..? No Pico file for us to play with.? Just kidding Eric. Nicely done. 😎 It looks like you can see the other bank is trying to contribute in the middle of the rise of each big compression. One bank having low compression while the other has high compression so it almost buries out the low bank. Obviously from wacked out timing of course. BTW..I'm sure you just made Scotties day seeing a Toyota Van in your shop. 🤣 Cheers DR.O

[@montestu5502]

Ah, you hit the nail on the head! Eric is usually spot on, but this time his explanation didn’t make sense. Yours does. I can see the other compression about half way up the big spikes. Thanks!

[@parochial2356]

@@montestu5502 I was wondering why only 3 compression pulses. Should be 6 total. I will go back and review the pattern. Thanks!

[@parochial2356]

Reviewed it, yup timing belt slipped, took out 3 cylinders, threw spark timing way off. 1 question remains: Waste spark system?

[@exmotorsports]

@@parochial2356 🤔 Don't think it has waste spark on this MZ-FE engine family.. Far as I understand the waste spark was on the 5VZ-FE engine only. Probably do to the engine size to help burn off the fuel better. Good thought tho, that was my first instinct too with a spark between 3 humps. 😎👍

[@parochial2356]

@@exmotorsports Hopefully Eric will do a little further diag and pull an upper cover to confm diag.

[@jdpower5552]

Hi Eric, love the videos and your amazon store. Can u please make a video on how to correctly meter Seafoam into a intake plenum port to clean up carbon deposits in the engine/valves?

[@dblr616]

Those are non interference engines so to me if it is timing belt related the 3 hours to do the belt is worth it

[@dblr616]

But I do love the test blown some people’s hair back with that one, fellow employees on how fast I figured out an issue and customers look at you like your a genius when u take a simple screen shot and explain what your showing them and what’s wrong with there car

[@roadkill5333]

WHATS UP MR O? not to steal a previously coined phrase, or violate any of the fair use acts, or anything. My grandma taught me that!

[@10100rsn]

I don't know what the timing should look like but it could be a "wasted spark" configuration which would account for the two sparks for three compression counts. The spark certainly looks off timing with the compression, though.

[@davesage9190]

I pondered that idea for a bit as well.But If you look at the engine at the start of the video you can see it has one coil per plug. A waste spark system would have a 3-coil pack with plug wires to each spark plug. As mentioned the timing is way off so that's a place to start.

[@10100rsn]

Wasted spark wouldn't have to have 1 coil for two plugs, the computer may just have 3 FETs to fire 6 coil packs and so they wired some to fire together. There are engine control units that are designed that way but I don't know if that particular computer is one of those. Its just different ways to save money here and there. But it does appear to be a timing issue.

[@anthonybeaudry6066]

Still have to have 6 current ramp humps for a 6 cylinder engine. the way that Eric was measuring the current draw from the starter motor would show this on a good engine. probably one whole bank of cylinders not moving at all. he also had higher than normal current draw from the starter motor.

[@richardclemmens9410]

That engine doesn't have the valve train that could be destroyed by the piston hitting it at TDC is it????? After the timing belt slipping???? Thanks for great videos that get this old guy thinking again.

[@juanrodriguez-ry6yt]

same thing i has thinking freewheeling like most toy with t-belt put a belt on it

[@tomh5663]

Santa does not have an interference engine Change timing belt kit & Will be good to go

[@tomh5663]

I mean sienna

[@theGADGETSplaylist]

cylinders coming up on compression stroke in pairs?

[@giovannigalo295]

Buena enseñanza master

[@thegreatmechanizedape8262]

i have a toyota, avalon. was leaking steam from the water pump. i was driving and it just died. running smoth then dead. no hick ups or anything. just shut off. its a crank no start now. every single sensor code was thrown from vvti to knock sensor. it sounds just the same. like it cant get compression. this video might save me. thank you.

[@baxrok2.]

Engines are so cheap it's not even worth pulling the cover! Yeah baby, yeah! Thanks Dr. O!

[@klwthe3rd]

I would have thought Toyota engines would be expensive since they last forever.

[@baxrok2.]

@@klwthe3rd Maybe because there are a lot of them left in circulation as they have outlasted the cars rust belt chassis!

[@mikeholt3545]

They are if you buy a new one. A head for a 2zrfe 4 cylinder is 1000!

[@hellcat1962]

I have seen many videos with blown Toyota engines. Why is that? Scotty says you can put a bullet through the block and they will still run.

[@williegillie5712]

I know where the teeth usually fall off the belt. At least most of the time right down there on the crankshaft sprocket. If you do take a look I would sure like to know if maybe one or the other camshaft pulleys ate the belt or if it was the crankshaft sprocket. Did you figure out what the relative compression was?

[@matthew1992ya]

im 99 percent sure all it needs is a timing belt that engine cant hit valves the only timing belt driven engine that Toyota has that can is a 4.7 v8

[@pineychristian]

Interference motor. Why would you put a belt on it?

[@matthew1992ya]

It’s not a interference motor is the point

[@throttlebottle5906]

they need to pay Jasper to send them a shinny new rebuild to install..... cause it's guaranteed borked..

[@creigmacc]

That should be a non interference engine? Though that doesn't always mean things can't get together.

[@jackwood8307]

Hey Eric what brand of car do you drive? And if you were going to buy a new one what would that be? Thanks!

[@dougtexas]

Just watched video for second time. Quick question: on these vehicles, how much time would it take to just look at the timing belt and teeth? Is it because there's too much crap to take off to look? ( I understand time is money). Is that the reason he'll probably just do the engine swap?

[@brandonosborne6894]

I believe that's a 3mz-fe, which is an interference engine. If the belt broke, that engine is toast.

[@Paul1958R]

Eric, Thanks for another great video that I learn from! BTW, is that Toyota engine an interference engine or not? SMA#1 God bless Paul

[@Blazer02LS]

3.3L - 3MZ-FE V6 with VVTi is an Interference engine.

[@marty0715yt]

Missed it by--That much!! Would you believe 2 boy scouts and a dog?

[@spudth]

What do you use to edit or mix or whatever your videos?

[@janibeg3247]

last time that happened to me it was the fuel pump.

[@miguelito6915]

does Scotty kilmer do relative compresion testing ? :)

[@nelsonnarciso1791]

Ok I understand the whole test And hooks up. Now how do you know on the scope pattern which is cylinder one and so on????

[@Blazer02LS]

You look at the ignition pulse (red trace on the video). The firing order on that engine is 1-2-3-4-5-6. Now say you connected the probe to cylinder 3 You crank the engine over. You should see the firing pulse line up with one compression event. That would be cylinder 3. Now IF the engine is good and the scope is working correctly there should be 2 compression pulses, then your timing pulse with compression on cylinder 3 then three more compression pulses. So 1-2-3pulse-4-5-6 If you connected the probe to cylinder 6 instead you would see 1-2-3-4-5-6pulse. The thing you need to keep in mind is what type of ignition system you have. If you use a vehicle with a waste spark system (fires 2 cylinders off the same coil) you will have 2 ignition pulse traces. Then you just need to remember which cylinder you have the probe on and which cylinders are paired.

[@nelsonnarciso1791]

@@Blazer02LS thank you sir. Gone have to do some test runs with this .. have to say never used this method of testing.

[@rogerswartout7597]

Hey Eric, in your opinion what would be the best scope to buy for someone that doesn't use one every day?

[@JD-iu3vi]

Depends on what type rifle you have.

[@theoriginaltruckergaming4783]

Top ten

[@mrflamewars]

3MZ-FE?