TPM - Precision Rifle Reloading - 5 Things to Improve the Consistency and Accuracy of Your Reloads

[@swamper2fly]

Good info. Seems like you hit all the pertinent topics. Now we need primers at reasonable prices so we can use these principles.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Thank you. Ya, I still haven't found large rifle primers, of God forbid large rifle magnum primers in probably a couple years now. I'm actually getting low to the point that I have to watch what I reload and plan for matches and hunting. No good. Hopefully they come back soon.

[@whitesturgeon]

@@triggeredprecisionmachinellc There is some lrp around rn. Not mag though

[@toddb930]

Those are good points. Thanks for putting them together. I have a few more things to consider. 1. Manage the amount you push back the shoulder. A general guideline is 0.002". Brass that has shoulders pushed back more than others will require some of the energy from the powder to push the shoulder back out resulting in slightly less velocity. 2. Be consistent with whatever is done on the inside of the neck. This basically manages the friction and therefore force required to start the bullet moving. 3. Some people state that the way or amount a primer is seated makes a difference. I still need to learn more about this aspect. I started into the short range benchrest game, (100 to 300 yards), about six months ago. This game pretty much requires you to shoot 5-shot groups which are less than quarter moa all the time. Some of the things those people do surprised me. They full length resize the case but are sometimes using a resizing die which is 2 to 3 thousandths less than their chamber diameters. These dies typically use a bushing, but not always. The chambers usually have a reduced neck diameter which requires them to turn brass neck thickness like you mentioned. Basically the brass is worked very little from firing to full resizing. This allows them to get 15 to 25 loadings out of a piece of brass. They do little to nothing to the inside of the case neck between firings. The firing residue acts as a lubricant and creates a consistent friction. Most clean the primer pockets so that the new primer can seat into the bottom of the pocket the same. They use good bullets, of course. If I think of more I'll add to this.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Great points, Todd. I've never done any specific testing to see how shoulder bump effects velocity, but that makes perfect since. I'll typically see slightly lower velocities with new, un-fireformed brass which probably has the same effect - using pressure to expand the case to the chamber. Interesting. The inside the neck stuff is actually something I am playing with now. Just for grins, I've recently shot loads with nothing done to the ID of the necks, vibratory cleaning, wet tumbling, then experimented with each of those coupled with different lubricants - dry moly powder, Imperial wax, and Hornady One shot. I did this with a pretty limited number of rounds and it was far from scientific. I was mainly experimenting to see what had a noticeable effect, if any, on the chamber pressure of a semi-hot load. I found the un-altered necks and the dry moly were very similar in velocity, essentially the same with no pressure signs. The case wax actually seemed to reduce the pressure which was evident by an effortless bolt throw, absolutely zero stick like a powder puff load would have. Velocities were slightly lower. The super clean brass from the wet tumbler had pretty severe pressure signs, to the point where I shot two rounds, stuck a case and called it quits for the rest. The velocity was considerable higher than all the rest. I did not do any accuracy testing and like I said, i only fired 3 rounds for each which is hardly statistically significant, but interesting nonetheless. I will revisit this someday and do a more detailed accuracy test. The bench-rest crowd has some serious magic they put into those rifles and the ammo they shoot. I have to admit, some of the stuff seemed downright superstitious but you cannot deny the results they get. I'd like to get involved with that someday, I'd imagine there is a ton to learn that could transfer back to the practical / tactical rifle shooting I enjoy. A Primal Rights primer seating tool is on my list of tools to accumulate. From what I understand, the bench-rest guys even use load cells to measure the pressure it takes to seat the primer, so they are all seated at the same pressure similar to how they seat bullets in an arbor press with the chamber type dies. Pretty amazing stuff. We still have so much to learn about getting truly perfect consistency and accuracy. As always, thanks for the contribution Todd! Great stuff! -Shawn

[@toddb930]

@@triggeredprecisionmachinellc That's great that you've done some experiments on inside the case neck preparation! Thanks for sharing your findings. I haven't heard about the benchrest people watching primer seating force. Some may do that and I just haven't met one yet. 🤪 There are some that watch the bullet seating force though. You can wait to try benchrest when you get to be an old guy. 🤣 Have fun with the action shooting sports while you can. My early experiences with benchrest seem like it's a mostly mechanical activity. The gun, ammo, and rests do the shooting part. Although reading the wind and making corrections is a big part of being successful. I still have a lot to learn. I haven't participated in a match yet to get humbled.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

🤣🤣🤣 Oh man, you got me laughing pretty good when I read the part about holding off from benchrest until I was an old guy. Haha! Does feeling like an old dude count? It sounds interesting, a whole new approach to shooting I've yet to experience. Some day.... Please share the tidbits of info as you come upon things that make you go, "oh wow." I'm truly interested. Thanks Todd.

[@buddyhughens7193]

I'm a relatively new reloader and new to 100yd benchrest. I'm using liquid Molly inside the neck and on the bullet. Haven't compared over the chrono yet. Witch Doctor on KZbin has done some in depth testing on the subject.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Interesting.... how is that working out????

[@rustyinoregon2769]

Excellent list ... no arguments on that being the Top-5.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Thank you, appreciate the comment! -Shawn

[@virgilpalmer2427]

I'm watching your channel, it's good stuff brother.. even an old reloader can learn..😂

[@kaiblackout6216]

Thank you for your content. To the point and not long-winded!

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

You're welcome! Thanks for watching. -Shawn

[@AthensArmory303]

Great video as always. Thanks for the info

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Thanks for watching!

[@Accuracy1st]

When I started reloading I bought what was recommended which was the cheapest RCBS dies, traditional scale, etc. I HATED sizing brass listening to the case neck run over the expander, squeaking and dragging. I learned quickly that the neck of the die was squeezing it down several thousandths, which was overworking the brass considerably. Years later I bought better equipment and got better at handloading. I read an article where the author indicated "GET RID OF THE EXPANDER!" Turns out you can send your sizing die back to manufacturer with a few of your brass and they will hone the neck to the desired diameter for you which I never knew back then. Substantially reduces runout. I haven't used an expander button/ball in years and in all of my hunting ammo, I use honed dies which squeeze the neck 2.5 thousandths or bushing dies and mostly do not full length resize anymore. Once I fire a round, I will rechamber the brass. If it does so easily, no need to full length size. Again, this is all regular hunting ammo When I neck size, I run the brass all the way in, then leave it for about 10 seconds as it is "working." If you do it at a regular pace, in and out, you can get too much spring back. I have neck turned some ammo and have found it to be better for repeatable accuracy and consistency but I hate doing it

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Sounds very similar to the learning curve I went through. I never got any dies custom honed but what I am considering now is ordering the corresponding "sizing" reamers for the calibers I have reamers for, and turn my own sizing dies. The sizing reamers are set up to make the perfect sizing die for that particular chamber reamer. Interesting point on letting the brass "set" while its inside the sizing die. Makes sense to me. Thanks for the comments, great stuff. -Shawn

[@leeNWHuntinganFish4713]

Very good information thank you it's so important for consistent accuracy. Only one thing i don't agree with its annealing. After 52 years of reloading now hand loading prevented maintenance is key so once you determine after 1 to 5 firings that it's time to start annealing the damage is done an may have effected your last firings or patterns. To avoid this myself I anneal every firing every cartridge is different take away the guess work. Keep up the great work an your time it helps.

[@brockedandloaded6034]

I'm annealing and mandrel sizing after I use a full length sizer die with expander ball removed. Do I still need to get a neck sizing die? Or is that just chasing the extra little bit?

[@user-TJ365]

In regards to consistently resizing the ID of the case neck, Greg at Primal Rights did a great video explaining how to achieve it. Essentially there is a sweet spot where you move the brass enough to cause it to yield, but not so much that you shorten the case life. If the brass isn’t moved to its yield point, sizing will not be consistent. I was chasing inconsistent neck sizes until I watched his video and bought the correct bushing and mandrel.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

100% accurate and great point. If I’m going for .002” neck tension, I usually under size the OD with a bushing .003 - .004, then use the .002” under mandrel to bring the ID back up. I get very consistent neck tension, but I’ve discovered that proper lube is key.

[@jasonrad9332]

Appreciate the info.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Any time! Thanks for watching!

[@ralphfrench2924]

Great video 👍🏼🇺🇸

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Thank ya sir, and thank you for watching. -Shawn

[@jasoncummings1755]

Ironically, i use Forster F/L dies and measuring a loaded round vs a sized piece of brass, i always have around .002 neck tension.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Sometimes we get lucky like that. That is awesome. How do you like the Forster dies in general?

[@jasoncummings1755]

@@triggeredprecisionmachinellc I think Forster is top notch. They are always my first choice in dies. You can actually have the F/L die reamed to have specific neck tension as a service from Forster.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

I'll have to give them a go. I feel like the dies from Forster, Redding, RCBS, and Hornady all come down to brand loyalty, like a Ford vs Chevy thing. I have always used Redding dies but I recently had some issues with a sizing die. My first problem in over 20 years with their dies.

[@sf2189]

I have a different view on speed than I did when I started reloading. I want something fast enough that gets me above transonic at the distances Im shooting. that’s all. For my 6.5x47 - 2740 is that speed. I prefer that to 2840 because it is kinder of the barrel and it has a lot less recoil and is easier to see trace. In the past I would have looked for the fastest possible node. I have a sub 600 yard load that is 2620 and it’s like I’m shooting a 6mm projectile in terms of feel. I would use that all the time but it becomes unstable before I get to 1000 yards. On neck tension I use the SAC dies with a bushing and mandrel. Saves one operation and super consistent. Shows up on amp press.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Spot on, that is better than I could have put it. Speed is nice, but I consider it a pleasant byproduct of a good load if it is there. If not, no sleep is lost as long as I have a tac driving rifle. I've never lost a match because I wasn't shooting as fast as the next guy. Thanks for the reply, I really need to get one of those SAC dies to try out. they get solid reviews from everyone who uses em. -TPM

[@whliving]

For your seating depth, what is the minimum of bullet that you would have in the case neck? I have a factory rifle and I have a fair amount of free bore. I have been told to keep a minimum of one bullet diameter in the neck. So, a .308 would have a minimum of .308 of the bullet oal in the neck. Im curious of your thoughts on this. Thanks in advance.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

I use the “one bullet diameter” for field rifles, you can get away with less on a dedicated target or bench rifle.

[@gc641]

Yes on don’t chase speed, I go for consistency on my spread, buy yikes on the powder charge good thing I play at a 1000 yards and hunt to 400 yards max

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Yessir, consistency is key.

[@whitesturgeon]

There is some lrp around rn. Not mag though

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

I haven’t been able to find any, but LR Mag is what I’m really after.

[@briancarpenter1255]

Great video. I am just starting out handloading and my number one goal is not to blow up my gun or myself so SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFTEY is my number one goal.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Yup, we often forget that. Very important!

[@jimlerum]

Speed mean very little without accuracy. Go shoot 2” groups and you have achieved box ammo. Make your time on the reloading bench worth making rounds. Happy and safe shooting guys and gals.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

My thoughts exactly.

[@med0ri]

How do you go at the match?

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Ended up 4th. Strong start, dropped one point in the first 3 stages, fell apart in the middle, cleaned up the last two without a miss. Lol. I need to brush up my mental game.

[@jasonweishaupt1828]

I only go to the range when the weather is bad so I don’t have to deal with the old geezers and rednecks.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

😂 That is definitely one option. No one wants to shoot in the bad weather. Up here we have a half of a year of it so the ranges are pretty empty. All good with me! 😁

[@leandrodelgiudice]

So you don´t care about neck concentricity?

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

I absolutely do!

[@leandrodelgiudice]

@@triggeredprecisionmachinellc SO ? ANOTHER VIDEO?

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

I've been lagging. Rifle builds and fumbling through tax stuff had me tied up. Back at it! 😁

[@Johnsormani]

You can go so far with reloading that you spend much more time reloading and tinkering with reloading than with shooting and improving your shooting technique.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Absolutely, I could not agree more. A lot of people get sucked into the rabbit hole in the search for perfection and lose sight of what it actually takes to be a solid shooter. I sometimes wonder if some of those folks enjoy the reloading process even more than shooting. I think that may be the case sometimes, which is perfectly ok. It's pretty fun playing around with this stuff.

[@Johnsormani]

@@triggeredprecisionmachinellc precision reloading is certainly more fun and more zen than spitting out 600 rounds of 9mm per hour on a Dillon 650, like I used to do when shooting ipsc.🙂

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

🤣 Yessir, you got that right. When I was shooting a lot of IPSC and USPSA I was loading on a Dillon 550. I definitely enjoy the "science" behind precision rifle reloading.

[@luvtahandload7692]

@@triggeredprecisionmachinellc do you think you have been sucked into a rabbithole in pursuit of perfection while attempting to weigh powder charges to the third decimal? Just how much does half a kernel of Staball6.5 weigh? Do you use a miniature version of a pharmaceutical pill cutter to cut granules in half? My opinion is that the sweet spot for the powder charge isn't a spot but a window and the bigger the case, the bigger the window. Try Creighton Audette's version of a ladder test once and you'll quit weighing powder to the 3rd decimal real fast. Thanks.

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

I’d say weighing powder to the 3rd decimal is way over kill. If I said that in the video that’s incorrect. I keep my powder charges to within two hundredths of a grain (.02). That is one physical grain of extruded powder like H1000 and Retumbo. Doing that doesn’t cost me any extra time or heartache. When tuned properly, the Auto Trickler with the FX120i scale I use will throw easily to within .02 grains in about 15-20 seconds. I’d say it has an overthrow maybe every 20 cycles. In that case I dump it back in and let it do it’s thing one more time. I agree with the “window” of powder charges for close range accuracy, but in my experience having more variation in powder charge weights rears it’s ugly head in vertical dispersion at distance. I’ve done a ton of testing with this in a few calibers. When you run a bunch of incrementally increasing powder charges over the chrono, sometimes you will see a velocity flat spot for a couple charges in a row. I’ve never seen enough of a positive correlation between this velocity flat spot and accuracy to say they go hand in hand. I have eliminated a lot of the time consuming stuff with reloading. Holding a fairly tight powder charge doesn’t take much more effort and it’s a variable I can easily control. There’s a lot of stuff we can’t control so I believe it’s important to have control over, or at least understand the variables we can control.

[@davewattles7237]

Speed kills. Ask anyone who was into (fast) cars in the 60's / 70's... As I understand it, consistency is everything to bracket racers too ...

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Consistency and precision are #1. Speed is a welcome byproduct.

[@lmbear]

#3. Against it. "Don't chase speed". Some guys are stupid, when it comes to this. Load for accuracy/precision: That doesn't always mean the fastest load. You didn't mention concentricity. You need to load straight ammo, for it to shoot well. All the talk about neck tension is good, but you don't need fancy tools like your bushing dies to produce very accurate/precise ammo. I shoot sub 1" groups at 400 yards, and sub moa out to 1,000, while using regular ol RCBS dies that are adjusted right and with ammo that is concentric: Meaning TIR less than .003". Guys can go down a rabbit hole on this, and a lot of info on youtube is bogus, especially for new handloaders. Don't send them neck deep into the weeds, in search for something that can be easily had on good equipment and minimal expense. That means a good single stage press, something like the old RCBS Supreme reloading kit that uses the Rockchucker press, a beam scale, a trickler, and a powder measure, and loading manual with a good how to section. A guy can learn how to reload on his own, by following the simple steps in those manuals, as outlined. No need to make it more complicated than it has to be.

[@charlesmullins3238]

Good stuff…did you get my email?

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

No, sir, I did not.

[@charlesmullins3238]

@@triggeredprecisionmachinellc I sent it through your site. I’ll try again

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

Finally got it Matt. Settin' up to respond back. Sometimes the messages through the website get delayed for some reason.

[@charlesmullins3238]

@@triggeredprecisionmachinellc good deal…got h1000,magpro, and some more 175smk comin this week to load more 6.5,and .308…we’ll keep in touch brother..

[@triggeredprecisionmachinellc]

H1000 is one of my favorite powders. Did you find some for sale online?