These mechanical disc brakes are ridiculous! - JuinTech GTF-6

[@hisdadjames4876]

Luke, you are absolutely not ‘a loser talking to himself in his garage’. You are talking to thousands of interested and admiring viewers, creating compelling content of which this vid is another example.

[@helicart]

It would have been helpful to compare the performance of the GTF-6 with full hydraulic brakes.

[@Alex-to8es]

You would have it on a totally different bike set up though so any number of things could cause a lot of variability.

[@jurekgadzinowski2895]

@@Alex-to8es Only different levers needed.

[@rebootyourmind]

A comparison with the HY/RDs would have been nice too

[@stevenr5149]

Be careful about the bike industry's favorite marketing tool-the A / B test. If A is good enough, It does not matter that B is better. Just think about your car. Would you run out and by a new brake system on your car if an A/B test showed that carbon ceramics stop faster? Obviously not because your current car brakes stop good enough. You don't need to pay for something you don't need. Be aware of the A/B test!!

[@ariffau]

@@jurekgadzinowski2895have you seen the prices of hydraulic levers. “only” ??? 😂

[@rascal1234]

The pistons are all a different color. Worth it.

[@chiliishot]

Cargo bike upgrades fit in there too. Low maintenance, high stopping power seems perfect for a business oriented cargo bike operator.

[@krzysztofkolodziejczyk4335]

With no drop bars involved anything other then full hydraulic system just doesn't make any sense

[@JLneonhug]

Exactly what I did (but full hyro). I rarely go over 17-18mph yet 4piston front and rears due to the additional weight.

[@Never_unknown]

It's worth considering for Yuba Cargo school run with 25kg of bike, 50kg of kids and 75kg of dad

[@PRH123]

​@@krzysztofkolodziejczyk4335 depends what your bike is doing, I have drums on my commuter, they're awesome

[@BikesKomsCRO]

This mans crazy doing a Vs, Vs, Vs and paying for it himself... god damn.

[@nikosbalakos6525]

Dude you've helped me make decisions about what sort of brakes to get from AliExpress and I really want to thank you for all your hard work and the detailed tests. Greetings from Sydney

[@leadgtr7]

Friction is force is F=u * Fn where u is the coefficent of friction and Fn is the normal force applied perpendicular to the frictional surface. Pressure is Force / Area however in a hydraulic system like this the number of pistons would all share the same pressure and hence you'd have n times (6 or 4 or 2) worth of force for the same given pressure. and because friction is proportional to the force and not really the pressure (although it would be the same if you only had one area where force is applied) you should have an increase in force due to multiple pistons. either way great video as always!

[@robbijay]

Came here to say this. F=PA and there is a greater area for the same pressure. same as tyres

[@denisbassom172]

Just to add...that is assuming that the total surface area of the pistons increases between the various calipers ie they don't use much smaller pistons on the calipers with more of them.

[@JLneonhug]

Exactly that. You have more pistons doing the "same work" over a bigger area. More = better in this case.

[@matpio7]

That formula is simplified and its generally true, but not always. Check something "friction coeficient vs pressure" For soft materials like tire on tarmac, 2 times bigger pressure will result force less than 2 times bigger. If that would not be the case, why would sport and race car using heavier, wider tires and rims, if grip increase reward woulnd not exceed weight penalty? Also after reaching certain force exceeding material strenght of tire or brake pad, it will make it sheer and quickly wear out.

[@eddnshoulders]

@@matpio7 Tyres/tires is quite a specific case because there is also covalent bonding that occurs between the rubber particles and the stones in the tarmac/asphalt. This is why tyre/tire grip drops so much on a wet surface - this bonding can't happen due to the water film between the 2 materials leaving only friction. That's the dominant effect that results in a bigger contact patch from larger tyres/tires giving more grip.

[@malcontent_1]

Thanks for this, Luke. I'd be very curious to see a comparison between the GT-F6 vs. _Growtac Equal_ calipers.

[@DuckRideDuck]

🥖 🥖 🥖 🥖 🥖 🥖 , 6 one for each piston!!

[@englishwithtimusa]

If I'm not mistaken, the additional braking force afforded by quad (or in this case, hex) piston brakes come from the fact that the pistons are different sizes. Smaller pistons move the pads a greater distance for every millimeter of input at the lever, but squeeze with less force. Bigger pistons do the opposite- they move a shorter distance but squeeze harder. Heat management is an additional bonus of quad or hex piston brakes.

[@eddnshoulders]

The movement is irrelevant as the force to move the piston to the rotor is minimal and only due to the seal friction - they'll all move as far as they can under very little pressure. The reason the piston on the leading edge is smaller, exerting smaller force, is because the friction force between pad and rotor causes the pad to try and twist in the caliper, pulling the leading edge of the pad into the rotor with more resulting force than the trailing edge. The other benefit of 4/6-piston calipers other than just exerting more force on the pad (due to the increased total piston surface area that the fluid pressure is applied to) is by changing the force that each piston exerts, the force across the pad ends up more even, despite the twisting effect.

[@paradiselost9946]

as an aging flatland freestyle rider, i love cable operated brakes... never seen a hydraulic "detangler"! lol, my highschool project was a freestyle bmx with disc brakes... 25 years ago, before they become so ubiquitous...

[@thisisobvious]

the shoulder straps you mentioned are the "bib" in bib shorts, just as a note. without they are just called shorts or cut shorts.

[@stuka78]

For an electric bike, where you have lots of cables running into the frame, in a crammed space, having mechanical cables and hydraulic calipers would make assembly and maintenance much faster and easier.

[@KaminKevCrew]

As someone else has already highlighted, hydraulics kind of change the way this work. That’s because in the hydraulic system, you have a certain amount of pressure. The thing is that while you would have the same amount of pressure in the system (PSI), you have more area across more pistons. Because it’s a hydraulic system, the more surface area you have (by adding more pistons), the more pressure you have acting on the brake pad. If you have 100 PSI of pressure in the hydraulic system, and you have 1 square inch of piston surface area and two pistons, you would have 200 pounds of force acting on the brake pads/brake rotor. If you have the same amount of pressure, but 6 pistons each of the same side, you will have 600 pounds of force instead, because you have a larger surface area that the pressure can act on. The thing that you end up losing is travel. The 6 piston caliper will only be able to move the piston 1/3 the distance of the 2 piston caliper. That’s why they felt so much stronger - they are literally applying more force because they have more area that the hydraulic pressure can act on. They’re not going to be 3 times as strong as the two piston calipers, since the other pistons are smaller, but that’s why they were stronger.

[@ryanyandell4451]

This pressure is transmitted through the hydraulic fluid to a piston, which can be used to exert a larger force. The mechanical advantage of a hydraulic system is determined by the ratio of the area of the piston on the output side to the area of the piston on the input side. This is the google result when you search hydraulic mechanical advantage. The surface area of the plunge of the master cylinder and the surface area of all the surfaces that it will push onto,(which in this case is the back of each of the six pistons )are critical for understanding the pressure applied. A six piston brake caliper should have three times the clamping pressure of a two piston brake caliper. Your understanding of surface area and friction was really good, though. Thank you for making these videos. I've been thinking about upgrading my brakes and wasn't sure how much of a difference it would actually make?

[@jantribble3064]

Amazing episode, when’s the 8 piston version available 😂

[@WillEDC]

Haha this. The piston war begins

[@PRH123]

Pistons right round the whole disk, now that would be cool... :) actually sounds like my drum brakes....

[@monochrome_linux]

@@PRH123 biblically accurate disk brakes.

[@alexanderauer637]

Love your channel ! Greetings from Germany !! Gold standard in DH Mountain Biking are still 4 pistons like the Shimano Saint or the new Sram Maven, 6 is extremely exotic even there. Trend currently is going fom 203mm to 220 or 223 rotors …

[@kingflynxi9420]

This makes me want to couple the hope v6Ti calliper with a new Tech 4 lever to make a ridiculously hard brake

[@ForeJaapie]

Ive had the Juin Tech R1 breaks for a while, post mounted version of the F1. I had no idea these could be bled, thanks so much for that! I'll keep that in mind if the performance drops off at any point. Im using them with compressionless housings. It doesnt feel as good as hydraulic but they break well and reliable, much better than the stock breaks from Cannondale

[@neilgoth1974]

TRP Hy/Rd auto adjusts pad distance for wear. For the Juin-Tech you manually adjust the pad distance.

[@richardharker2775]

My first bike as a kid had brakes so good I had to plan my stops a street away. These days we are spoilt for choice. Luckily we can choose depending on budget and the type of riding we're going to do. I had the early version of Hy/Rd brakes but the inside piston on both brakes would never retract properly driving me nuts. A thank you for making this video and offering your personal opinions.

[@thenoodlehunter6828]

Honestly. I think it's good for those who have a giant bike who used their own 'hydro' system but you can't find the parts made anymore. You don't have to throw away your shifters.

[@tinman7551]

6 piston calipers 😮 they sound really impressive.

[@n0b0dy07]

I definitely would love to watch some ride vlog, you ride on some amazing places, I would love to see more

[@Sierramike524]

Fairly sure multi pistons are more powerful because the total piston surface area is larger, so the hydraulic leverage is greater. The same can be achieved if they increase the size of the single piston, but the packaging would be kinda ass.

[@szurketaltos2693]

As I understand it, with a typical full hydraulic system you aren't increasing the piston surface area much going from 2 to 4. What you do get is (1) more brake pad surface area and (2) more even pressure on the pad. Ultimately you are limited by the size of the master cylinder, especially for road brifters. However, with a hybrid brake it is possible to have a substantially larger master cylinder and therefore more piston surface area.

[@One_mole_worth]

@Sierramike524 is correct

[@szurketaltos2693]

That is, if you increase the piston area, force will increase proportionally but the distance that the pistons travel will also decrease proportionally. 10% will probably not cause a huge loss of clearance, but if the pistons were 100% bigger (2->4 pistons of same size), that's definitely liable to require very very true rotors. If you want to keep the same clearance, you would lose pressure on the brake pads.

[@merckxy54]

Another great video Luke. Certainly expensive, but the others seem great. TRP especially. Just built up a Chinese Ceccotti frame with rim brakes but my next bike will be disc with the mechanical TRP1 Saves faffing around with fluid!!!!

[@rascal1234]

Those GTF-65 might be good for my old'school MTB. Juyst the front thouygh.

[@williamcrampton394]

Fantastic video and research. Well done. I love your work.

[@mac16a]

No worries, next time you'll get that pokemon right!

[@MTBScotland]

The 4 piston pad looks the same as my saint/zee pads. I remember hope made some 6 pistons hydro brakes in 2003 called the mono 6 Ti

[@proffesorDub]

Great video Luke! Just as a potential ‘other scenario’ that people would buy these for. I myself am a juin tech owner, mainly because in 2022 I went from rim brakes to disc, but only wanted to upgrade the frame and didn’t want to buy a whole new groupset (I have a sram red 12 speed axs grupo). So initially I went with the 1 piston caliper, which whilst it worked it felt a little lacklustre. I ended up buying two of the 6 piston in the fetching purple (weighing it up against he Paul klampers which are slightly cheaper) In my opinion the brake performance offered by the GT 6 is exceptional, and more than what I need for my road bike. What it did mean is that for 400 pounds, I avoided spending over 5x that on a new sram red grupo. And are still cheaper than just buying a sram red pair of Brifters and callipers A very niche use case I know, but they’ve given me the ability to use a disc brake frame without too many additional costs. Keep up the great work!

[@emmabird9745]

Great Luke, I like your methodology. You are quite right that friction is proportional to normal load (pressure as you called it) so for the same size rotor, with the same pad material, then you should gat the same braking for the same hand pressure regardless of pistons and pad area. However it friction ceoficient that can change. Pads can out gas during use due to the heat reducing ceof. leading in the extreme to fade. That is well understood. However there is another effect which can make a difference and that is shear stress in the pad marerial. Less area leads to higher stress which makes the fibres in the material lean over more and so reduce coef. Thats on a tiny scale of course but can in some manner explain some of the difference. I would recon that the hy-rds will compensate for pad wear better (because of the resevoir) so performance at max wear will be much the same as new. Great testing Luke, keep it up. Small point, off topic, is that cable operated hydraulic calipers are like the old magura (I think that was the brand) with the remote hydraulic block on the stem but more integrated.

[@ranitbose9609]

This is the only explanation that seems to make sense. Since otherwise there isn't any reason for the normal force or the coefficient of friction to change as Luke had stated

[@Finnspin_unicycles]

@@ranitbose9609 Typically 4 piston brakes have more hydraulic leverage (ratio of caliper piston area to master cylinder piston area), so the normal force is changed when compared to 2 piston models. You could of course increase the hydraulic leverage on 2 piston brakes too, but that runs into issues at some point (e.g. short and wide pistons will have a tendency to get stuck and spoke clearance is limited, master cylinder pistons can only become so small while still being strong enough), so at some point it becomes easier to add more pistons.

[@TrekSLDuraAce]

Who needs these GTF-6 calipers? I have an older tandem with cable operated disc brakes. They work OK in the flat lands, but are not very good in the hills. Retro-fitting to a Juin Teck would give me/us much more braking power, heat control, and ease of installation. Tandems can get pretty heavy with 2 riders and several bags of gear. Fully loaded our tandem is over 400 pounds!

Believe it or not the taping part of the bleed is usually necessary as it tends to get a few small stubborn bubbles out of the system.

[@ryanmcivor1532]

Those centerline rotors? Aren't they on backwards?.... NM just saw it addressed in the bonus clip. Love that lead in BTW👍

[@mattspencer3294]

Funny he says it doesn’t make a difference, I’ve once put a centerline on backwards and under heavy braking you most definitely can tell, I was chasing a weird vibration forever, then flipped the rotor to the right way and it was totally fixed. The spokes are designed so the rotor is stiffer in one way and helps a lot with vibrations

[@piotrcichy7316]

The Juin Gtf-6 would be great for a disc brake tandem bike!!

[@JJJJ-p2t]

I really like your channel... you go deeper into the engineering of the products way more than other channels which I enjoy since I'm an Engineer... what is your background? .... also why are your levers have cables coming out the side of them like the cheap ones I've seen...Unless those where all you had for testing your just giving away watts with those even though minimal still counts in my eyes.... again... Great channel... and thanks a million..... 😀

[@LawrenceSeetoh]

that is a great review, thank you Luke It seems like JuinTech makes rather decent brakes. I'll keep that in mind for my next brake upgrade.

[@motionstudio77]

Another great review Luke, is good to know the differences between these high ends disc brakes.

[@sqd8r]

6 pots used to be all the rage in motorcycles in the 90s and early 00s, especially in the modified community.

[@denislitisha7136]

And mountain biking

[@BigGdh100]

Luke, I'm mainly a mountain biker, used to race DH and even on DH bikes they only run 4 piston brakes. Hope brought out some 6 caliper brakes like 20 years ago but they stopped selling them years and years ago. As you've said, pad material and the power and modulation in the system is more important. Love the channel though, keep up the good work 🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@landixus]

I never know that there are hydraulic brake heads on the market, i feeling like a n00b after 20 years of riding. I need to investigate this cool STUFF! Thank YOU for pointing me on it!

[@19Daantje98]

This is cool. I'm not as interested in bikes and riding them, although I'm Dutch and of course use my bike a lot to go to places, but this video was interesting. The thought of a system like this once occurred in my head as an idea, but never looked into it.

[@tomalbert3299]

The former head of Trickstuff once told me that the larger a piston is or if you have two in a row instead of one the brake pads won't twist as much. The result is a more equally distributed force on the brake pads. Think back when we had V-brakes. Maybe you remember how a worn pair of pads looked like - the front of the pad still had material left while the rear was completely gone. Now that I think about it the brake pads of my old two piston (having a small diameter) brake the same happens there as well.

[@jamesheedrpg_god-boss3676]

yeah this is true about more brake pistons, its really no different than car brakes or big brake kits. on your stock standard car you have one piston on each side of the rotor pushing the pad into the rotor, this is nice and works well but your not utilizing the pad well enough and can often get inconsistencies in brake performance or brake fade. inn comes the big brake kit, a big brake kit tries to solve two problems, heat and consistency, the increased amount of pistons in the calipers allows you to run bigger pads distributing the pressure more evenly over it, this will make them more efficient not building up the same concentrated heat that makes brakes fade, this should give you more consistent braking and since you distribute the pressure over a larger surface and there is more material for the heat to soak into, in addition to this most big brake kits have larger ventilated and drilled or slotted rotors that will aid in cooling as well. the main goal for bigger brake calipers is not stopping distance but consistent performance when your brakes are hot.

[@edrn1842]

You're the man we need but don't deserve. Cracking video, Luke (as always)!! 🥖🥖🥖

[@cheese4096]

You need a man? 🥖

[@mrnosy1]

Bought some Sirocco gear with your link. Stuff looks great, cheers! 🤙🤙

[@thomaswilliams4694]

Had him tech brakes on my gravel for years bloody brilliant way way better than any cable discs

[@christopherharmon9336]

Great video! It's good to see options in the mechanical-disc world. Personally, I like the simplicity of mechanical brakes. An Achilles heel of mechanical disc system is the housing. Compressionless housing will dramatically increase the power and feel of even cheap mechanicals. I threw compressionless housing on my 2019 Radwagon, which has inexpensive Tektro mechanical discs. I can now easily lock up the rear wheel, with much more control and power compared to the old housing. I strongly suspect GOOD mechanical discs and GOOD housing or compressionless housing will significantly decrease the gap in performance between a mechanical and hydraulic system. I also suspect that there is overlap in performance-would it be "better" to have JuinTech, Growtac, TRP or Paul Klamper mechanicals compared to some entry-level hydraulic brakes? The answer is probably yes. These hybrid-style brakes are an interesting option.

[@petark1933]

Luke = Legend in making! Awesome video as always! But :D Adding more pistons does increase force behind brake pad. We can say that max pressure in caliper chamber is equal for all calipers, but difference is in surface area exposed to hydraulic pressure ( more pistons more surface area ) F=P*A F-Force P-Pressure A-Surface area.

[@HUKIT.]

I’m a mountain biker and despise the pavement but your videos are very entertaining.

[@jamescaldwell5]

When taking advanced physics in High School and learning about friction calculations, I asked my teacher: "How come performance oriented cars have wider tires?" His response was quite snarky and basically said "so they have better grip" He did not grasp that the equation he was teaching us states that spreading out the contact surface would equally reduce the amount of force applied to the surface per area, and thus cancel out the desired result. However, when it comes to friction, real world testing is far superior to calculations and the same force applied to the larger surface area usually creates more friction.

[@Adurianman]

Nope, if you do real world testing it would proof that friction is exactly the same no matter the contact area when same compound and force is used. Why we use bigger contact area is because the material are able to resist the mechanical loading and not break off, friction generated is the same, but traction differs

[@Seppes94]

Also heat. Narrow tyres with the same compound would melt if used on a racecar and larger brakepads disperse heat better.

[@jamescaldwell5]

@@Adurianman With real world testing, how do you measure the difference between friction and traction? How do you explain his test results?

[@Adurianman]

@@jamescaldwell5 there are many videos on KZbin that demonstrates that friction is wholly dependent on just the force, and coefficient of friction. You can put a similar mass out on same material with different sizes and you measure the force needed to move the material with weight on it. Unless things breaks off, the force required to move will be practically the same, showing that friction is not influenced by contact patch kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaqrZquFmNiLrtU

[@JoeMooney]

Force is Pressure/Area so, at the same pressure, you would expect more force with the larger contact area.

[@malcontent_1]

This also reminds me of a funny old MadTV fake commercial for a *_20_*_ blade_ razor -- the Spishak Razor

[@moobaz8675]

I have Hope RX4 four piston hydraulics on my LOOK endurance bike and they are excellent. I also have Paul Components Klampers on my Gravel / bike packing bike. I've got to say that the Klampers are phenomenal, but like the Juin Tech they were expensive at £200 a calliper but are truly exceptional and mean I can sort any issues off the beaten path if need be.

[@EthanBlock]

The frictional force is equal to the coefficient of friction and the normal force of caliper on the rotor. Having a larger brake pad will increase that coefficient of friction. The other reason a 6 piston brake may have more friction is that there may be more mechanical advantage (i.e. the force from the brake lever isn't the force on the rotor). I do not think heat disapation has much to do with the performance difference if at all.

[@shmu_el]

I'm totally aware it might be a dumb thing but on all my bikes I sand down the paint on the brake mounts and put thermal paste on the calliper and rotor mounts. I suppose it helps with heat dissipation 😅

[@jester6578]

Thermal paste on the outside of the caliper would actually act as an insulator, keeping more heat in.

[@shmu_el]

@@jester6578 I put it between the caliper and the frame/fork mounts

[@peddler931]

They might be good for a tandem fitted out for loaded touring.

[@timurtimaev8808]

Man i like your style! Amazing presentation! I want to become a presenter like you!

[@tomcruz3774]

Trp hyrd either needs to come down in price or come out with a 4 pot version to become the true hero. Besides cargo bikes and tandem bikes I think hybrid mechanical disc would work great for those who bring their bikes on planes a lot. Also folding bikes since you can bend cables with no worries but hydraulic hoses might get crimped over time.

[@Feldmarshall12]

I would love to see how those stuck up against Avid BB7 mechanicals. I remember using mountain version and I was blown away how well they worked. That was a dozen years ago, but those calipers outperformed cheap hydraulics then. And for some reason no other mechanical break I tried ever aproched the performance BB7s had out of the box.

[@christopherharmon9336]

I put Avid BB7's on my hardtail mountain bike, which is now 12-13 years old. A 32mm RockShox TORA fork with a 203mm rotor give more more power than I need. To be fair, I basically use this bike for gravel rides, and very light XC. But to your point-I don't see how "upgrading" to hydraulics would be beneficial.

[@raychalmers8167]

The Juin tech are a step up in performance over the BB7 in power and modulation.

[@Feldmarshall12]

@@christopherharmon9336 There are many points where hydraulics have an edge... but most importantly it is the fact, that pads clamp the rotor from both sides. In BB7 and any other mechanical I ever saw only one pad moves. If you pull hard enough the rotor will slightly deflect and contact the other pad, but this sometimes works really bad. (other advantages for hydraulics: no degradation due to dirt on a cable and friction, self regulation of piston position as pads are used up, more even pressure on the pad, no need to use precise bearing for the caming mechanism that pushes the pad {BB7 stands for ball bearing BTW})

[@craig1173]

Hope made 6 pots years ago. Had them on my downhill bike, immense stopping power

[@avalsirithanawat1772]

Opinion: The reason a car's brakes make up a much higher mass ratio to the vehicle compared to the bike is the speed difference. Say a bike might have to stop from 30mph vs 60mph for a car. If a bike regularly travels the same speed as a car i.e. 60mph, it would have 4x the kinetic energy since KE is proportional to velocity^2. So if you assume a car travels around 3x the speed of a bike, it would need ~9x the rotor/vehicle mass ratio, which makes sense. :)

[@zimmejoc]

I put aftermarket brake pads on my car. I compared it to the OEM ones, and the surface area was smaller. Car didn't stop as well. Returned them and paid double for OEM pads, car stopped like it did before.

[@justanothernoobe]

Nice video - a lot of creators struggle to give an apple-with-apples comparison but you've done a great job. Great explanations plus you've got a really engaging presentation style 👍👍 My question comes from the downhill mountain biking perspective so might not apply to road-cycling... Would the reduced volume of fluid mean that potentially there's a greater chance of brake-fade from the fluid overheating (compared to fully hydraulic brakes)?

[@nelsonglover3963]

£200 per caliper is the same as a 105 hydraulic shifter and caliper. There is literally no point to these. Hell I got an entire LTwoo GR9 groupset for about £200

[@sidneyroyongkingco7951]

I really like the bonus clip!

[@primozuranjek2510]

8:04 rotors are the wrong way around

[@chriss6971]

Sort of makes sense having the hydraulic stuff lower down on the bike thus putting the mass lower like motor bikes do to help handling.

[@robfti]

Absolute LOL to the Pokémon ad-break guessing game reference. Touché sir.

[@shannonparker7404]

Just love your work Luke. I really hope this KZbin thing is working out for you.

[@icorlaiti]

There is a small spider on one of the shots from the F1... 🤣🤣🤣... thanks for the great content as always.

[@charleshartlen3914]

awesome visd again my dude. subbed and liked. thanks for your hard work we appreciate it brother

[@Miekzz]

The pokemon bit had me 😂

[@matttiggerward6147]

Im intrigued by the different piston sizes, I wonder what effect that has compared to pistons of equal size. They do look big when on the bike.

[@gtmks]

Maybe the 6 Piston Brake has a better mechanical Advantage because of the higher Piston surface?

[@Hydra3Three]

How do you find the Darevie gloves you are wearing??

[@Tokazukashi]

With that mustache Luke look's like a 80-90's police officer from the coast of Miami or something like that.

[@williamforbes7156]

when i did my first bike build i was really buget centered because i was a total noob and i didn't want to blow all my cash on junk that wasn't going to work together with all the different standards and not having uptime on the returns etc etc. so getting an older fram with the mechanical disc brakes but wanting more power, i could see this being used at a sale for that i run the hy/rd and love them but shaving some weight and keeping or even gain performance would be a big plus for CLIMBING HILLS

[@williamforbes7156]

also any plans for a trp groupset review?

[@StalinorgelTV]

We love you mustache

[@todormashev5337]

Thank you Luke!

[@crankgreenwatts]

Nice video Luke .. Just had some F1's fitted and cannot wait to try out 🤞

[@WRBL69]

I have an TRP brakes which were stock on my Triban and after around 3 years I had to switch them out to mechanical breaks, because even tough I switched out the brake pods and the disc rotors, bleed them they lost so much power I was afraid to commute to work. These 3 piston Juin Tech's look really good but seem to me overkill.

[@valderja]

That's some really thorough, extensive testing Luke. Nice job. 👍🏼

[@josecamilojimenez2784]

Tbh my only problem with juin tech brakes is the position of the piston cuz some frames dont have enough space in the back. Right now i'm using the onirii BR-005 (mainly because of the piston position) with compresionless housing and it's a m a z i n g and the piston position is perfect cuz it doesn't touch the frame

[@philoso377]

Nice video and presentation. Multi pistons implies that disc brakes doesn’t cut it. One is not rough. Two? May be. Four ? Just right. Six? How about forward somersault?

[@tytusbiziuk4924]

Increasing the amount of pistons gives you a larger surface area, increasing the hydraulic advantage (simplified with no measurements, the master cylinder is X and each piston on the calliper is y. 2 pistons x:2y 4piston x:4y 6 pistons x:6y meaning you have 3x more force going into the pads comparing the 2 piston to 6 piston and the pad is not 3x bigger so therefore you have better braking) Also bigger pads = softer compound that lasts as long as a smaller pad with a harder compound

[@harrison00xXx]

Yep. I even upgraded pretty good 2 piston Nutt hydraulic brakes to 4 piston with additional cooling fins and a slightly bigger disc. Brake power increased heavily, to a point you even have to be careful to not stall your front wheel, but in general its so much safer in the case i have to emergency brake where the stock brakes needed too much force. Im running it on a 5000W peak performance scooter going easily 70-80 km/h, and on one downhill passage i burnt once a set of brake pads and the disc, additionally i didnt like how much force is needed to stop faster. So as much it was enjoyable to feather and control the stock brake system (i mean its GREAT by default!), the better brake system allows for EASY stopping without too much force needed at all.

[@kelvs45]

Can you also try premium fully mechanical disc calipers? (Like growtac equals)

[@joezen2002]

Thanks for your video. It was very interesting to know that a roadie brake can do 6-pistons. It's a perfect for us here with Steep Hills in Hong Kong. I got a few questions if you won't mind: 1. Can it do 180mm rotor or even 200mm? 2. Can I use my existing SRAM AXS group set for this brake? 3. Weight of the caliper compared to say SRAM calipers?

[@easguess]

I've got an interesting use case for this, wanted an opinion. Bought a 2016 Specialized Tarmac Frameset with Rim brakes - building it up with aliX parts. Is it worth buying an aliX fork, asking Elitewheels to do a mixed rim rear/disc front wheelset, and buying the Juin 4/6 caliper? So: rims rear, mechanical disc front. You did another video on front rim conversion in the past - wanted to see if you've changed your mind at all. Bike with be mixed commuter and pleasure, I live in a rainy place but won't ride with any substantial rain. Always love Luke's content, he's been a big inspiration for my builds.

[@simple4586]

If you've got the money, and just want to get a franken bike for conversation and commute, by all means. Your bike, your rules. For anything else, just set it up as is with alloy rim tracks.

[@gokevinj]

I did this on my cross bike, juin-tech on front and canti on the rear. Highly recommended.

[@X41N3]

I recently upgraded my mt400 series brake from 160 to 180mm, and i upgraded from bso1? to to bs05 shimano pads. the bs05 claims 50% longer lasting but I also have a hunch the bite is less cause my disc upgrade didn't rly make it feel stronger..or just not what I had hoped. I think this happened: because new pads are more slippy, that 10% of extra theoretical power might be more like 5% now.

[@harrison00xXx]

But in general it should increase long time reliablity a lot by doing so. I also upgraded from already decent/good stock Nutt hydraulic brakes (2 piston) to 4 piston and bigger disc but the hardest possible pads. From about 1500-2000 km per set of pads im now at over 3000 km and the better brake system still goes strong as well i have noticeable more braking power if needed. My stock Nutt brakes were ok... NICE to control under regular conditions, but HORRIBLE for emergency braking since a ton of force was needed.

[@X41N3]

@@harrison00xXx I rode for 1 year and the pads looked almost new with the old version. (No mountains here) if shimano is right, I can probably ride it for maybe 4 years. Just wish it had more bite

[@imbackinthegame3611]

You should get a Dragy to measure break performance

[@sutherlandrb32]

Luke I had an idea after watching this. Might be worth doing a comparison of finned vs the non finned pads at some point. I got a few pairs of ztto pads on ali express with fins and they perform nicely compared to the Shimano finned pads

[@philippecardin1109]

I think you could achieve the same result with just longer brake pads instead of more pistons. More friction equals more braking power, it's that simple.

[@eugenrafael4086]

Hi Luke...try Growtac Equal and you will be amazed at their stopping power...

[@matteo.ceriotti]

Hey Luke! The comparison with a car with respect to the percentage of mass of the discs (2% of mass for car vs. 0.2% for bike) does not really work, because the energy to be dissipated (to come to a complete stop) is 0.5*m*v^2: the velocity is squared, so for double velocity, the energy is quadruple. A car moves much faster than a bike, and that's why the proportion of disc mass is way higher. Your argument would work if cars were heavier, but moving at the same speeds as bikes.

[@paveltarasiq8149]

I weigh about 105 kilo. With total equipped mass going up to 125-130 kg. Sometimes I even pull a kids trolley (~140 kg total) Even in my ligtest run I found myself hard to brake on any disk brakes. Now I have a 203 mm rotor in front and Juintek R1 calipers paired with Yokuzuna cables. And only now I feel that bike is somehow braking. Why not hydro? - because Campy levers, comparing with others are like day and night difference in comfort

[@deltabravo5712]

Thank you for the bleeding Tutorial, i was actually looking for one ! Did you use Shimano mineral oil ?

[@IcecalGamer]

If you ask about the oil for yourself, you did say you were looking for a guide, use the fluid that your brake manufacturer recommends (or a newer version of that). There are 3 base fluids: mineral oil, silicone and glycol. DO NOT mix. Your system, from lines to seals, will turn to mush. A quick google for your brakes will tell you what you have. DOT 3 , 4 , 5.1 one type DOT 5 stand-alone type Shimano, Magura and other "special" blends of 11 herbs and spices another type (usually* mineral oil based)

[@deltabravo5712]

Thank you!

[@IcecalGamer]

​@@deltabravo5712 NP. i happened to see your comment and since i needed to do the research for my self from scratch month ago, tough it'd be useful to share. Even tho the above msg is incomplete, (since some brands obfuscate what they use) you don't have to start from 0 (since that is... daunting). Hope it helps.

[@TyProvosty]

Is there a carbon bike frame that is both built to accommodate both fully self contained hydraulic disc brakes such as the ones featured in this video that also accommodates mechanical brake levers, (with stainless steel brake cables). Second question, is there an electronic groupset that features mechanical brake levers, (to couple with these self contained hydraulic brakes)??? Thanks for you answer. Thanks for you videos and your chosen subject.

[@BlairAir]

Actually, I know JuinTech for their M1 model, I think it's marketed at Ebike customers. The big draw of these is the thought of mounting them and being done in 10-15 minutes vs. pulling hydraulic line through a bike frame, pulling grips off handlebars and setting up a traditional brake system. It's a lot of brake force for the least, the absolute LEAST amount of effort. The BARE MINIMUM of doing a damn thing. My thought? If you can buy s full set of levers, calipers, lines and supporting hardware for the price of a caliper (a well made, with top materials and precision manufacturing) then it become a question similar to what Sean Connery asked Kevin Costner in The Untouchables - What. Are You Willing. To Do.

[@robbijay]

@tracevelo Have you tried bleeding your HyRds yet? My front has a bit more lever pull than the rear but I’ve got double the amount of bolts in it than in the TRP bleed video! I think it’s so you have a top and bottom port for the caliper/reservoir no matter if it’s front or rear so you don’t have to remove it but I’ve been too scared to try yet!!

[@dancarter5727]

Great video thanks. Do you know if the Juin Tech GT-P are the same as Yokozuna Ultimo?