Trade School or Union? 🤔

[@GabrielRuiz702]

I was a pre-apprentice aka helper for the pipefitters union in Vegas and I had a lot of knowledge because of the HS I went to had trades as an actual class all 4 years.. Got paid like shit, made some apprentices look bad when I would talk to the journeymen BUT would recommend trade school and go to a company that is willing to pay you

[@wisdomonuekwusi3409]

Please bro how can be part of aprentic

[@edhcb9359]

That pension is HUGE! It’s the difference between retiring in your fifties when those aches and pains are unbearable Vs. potentially never retiring!

[@michaelc9128]

Or if you work 40 years into the company and they go out of business...wham pension gone in a blink of an eye. It's rampant in these days

[@edhcb9359]

@@michaelc9128 A)It’s really not rampant and B)All private sector pensions are required by law to pay into PBGC insurance which ensures that doesn’t happen. But you can keep telling yourself otherwise if it makes you feel better.

[@krazyspartanodst]

Or just get a college degree and live to be 100😂😂

[@thomasdragosr.841]

@@krazyspartanodst ...and pay for it until you are 100!

[@krazyspartanodst]

@@thomasdragosr.841 not really I didn’t need to take out any loans to get my degree

[@bengman95]

I went through the union electrical apprenticeship and I'm glad I did. Welding may be different, but a trade school 2-year in electrical teaches the basics of code and theory. Plus you still need 6000 working hours (2000 credit for trade school) to become a journeyman. That's 5 years total. And you have to pay for that schooling. I'm the union, you earn while you learn, and in my case, I got a raise to join the apprenticeship. 5 years later, I was making 50 bucks an hour on the check plus about 35 bucks an hour of benefits. Not bad...

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Not bad at all

[@freeridemoto7133]

welding schools are scams

[@bengman95]

@aramos1138 honestly, I'd go talk to your local union and ask what you need to do to be the best candidate for them to let into the apprenticeship program. That way, you have a road map on how to prepare yourself.

[@Big092MLBOA_]

@@aramos1138how do I get straight to union?

[@Raysreallife]

What state

[@arwel63]

Apprenticeships teach the correct way not the fast way

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

That's debatable

[@Otingocni]

everything in life is debatable@@WesternWeldingAcademy

[@richardspillers6282]

Nobody can survive on that pay. $13 - $15 hourly.

[@calebc6028]

Apprenticeship take 5 years of your life when you could learn everything within a year 4 months in a school 7 months in the road lol.

[@nickpop4344]

@@richardspillers6282nobody can survive on minimum 💀

[@ryangrnya336]

Retirement, medical benefits, no job searching and having a union to advocate for your pay, safety, and overall treatment from employers.

[@alphamech79]

F the union

[@quychang4471]

@@alphamech79 Why. Did you fail to get in??

[@alphamech79]

@@quychang4471 I wouldn’t even to consider to join the most laziest organization on the planet

[@alphamech79]

@@quychang4471 wouldn’t join the union ever I hate them with a passion

[@chipcook6646]

Union the only way to go

[@TonyStark-j7q]

Welding school makes you a badass welder in a booth. The other teaches you how to be a badass in the field

[@dash2946]

I get the sense this guy isn’t the biggest on unions, but anyone out there who has an option please go the apprenticeship path. He talks about making that money immediately but not about you having to pay for your own benefits from your hourly wages as well as although you know how to do a task out of school you don’t necessarily have real working experience so your employer is still going to low ball you. Do not work 30+ years of your life and end up with a shit pension, go union apprenticeship if given the opportunity.

[@ljohnson5617]

Thanks for the insight. 💯💪🏿

[@Mojo32]

Nobody with integrity is "for the union." Fact.

[@joeyjordan1209]

@@Mojo32you don’t have to make it political.. just go wherever you will make the most and and have good retirement.. 99 times out of 100 that’s in the union..

[@sewerrat7612]

My area electrical you want union plumbing option c get a job as a helper and if your good enough company will pay for school I even got paid by the hour to sit in class.

[@Mojo32]

@@joeyjordan1209 What? My comment has nothing to do with "politics." You're ridiculous.

[@Mr_Gray_1995]

Apprenticeships don’t rush the training. Plus, they might make less in the beginning, but once they’re a journeyman, it’s big bucks 💰 💰

[@dergadergaful]

Not in Cali, welders here typical make 25/hour non union. In my union we make 57/hour wage and 89/hour whole package with the 401+ medical+dental+ 2 pensions

[@positivevibrations6975]

I’m in Southern California, can you point me to where to start?

[@user-xo4om8qv6m]

Local 617 IBEW $82hr

[@Literature-ft8ru]

That's for a lucky few with connections but that's great man! Good for you

[@strykerx24]

If you can get into the union. Do it when your single and have the time to establish yourself.

[@mholly8891]

Each method has its pros and cons. Trade school is quick relatively speaking compared to a union apprenticeship, however in an apprenticeship your going to get full union benefits and start banking hours towards your pension. Think long long term. The older you get the sweeter those benefits and pension start looking

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

💯

[@dommysprite3771]

Yeah these days any sort of retirement plan is gold

[@dommysprite3771]

Yeah these days any sort of retirement plan is gold

[@tyreljenkins5655]

Can you start out with trade school and then switch over to a union in the future?

[@mholly8891]

​@@tyreljenkins5655 absolutely, there are a lot of people who go this route. If you have the skills to be a journeymen you just have to join and get on the list. Doing an apprenticeship might help give you some networking and training at the same time though

[@bobrat]

Union pays you to learn, trade school is $10 grand for a 2 year associate degree. Union starts you at 55% full wage and you get a 12% raise every year for 4 years. You do get top notch benefits after your 90 day probation. 95-5 health insurance great for a working family. I'm making what I took home when I was working. as a retired Union Journeyman With free health care.

[@TheJustReyes]

100% do an apprenticeship. Not necessarily through the union, but trade school guys don’t know anything. I did mine through a small shop that taught me everything. 5 years later, 120k base salary

[@nonameiiii]

What do you do? I have no idea where to start and what the best path is? My wife and I want to start a family and my wife wants to stay home with our kids, so I don't want to end up down the wrong path.

[@ljohnson5617]

Thank you for your insight bro

[@alphamech79]

F the union

[@Illuminatisevil]

@@alphamech79F non union rats I worked 48 hours this week and pulled in $4058. bucks sheet metal workers union 🤑

[@sewerrat7612]

​@@nonameiiiiplumbing and electrical can both work for that if you're willing to work long hours for someone else. If opening your own business any of them can work.

[@brysonpresley1108]

In union pipefitting at least if you can weld you get paid journeyman scale in your apprenticeship.

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

👌

[@garystreet4260]

Same in the IUEC

[@FidelAlt]

What about boilermaker union?

[@tweekendz]

@@FidelAlt they all have fast track opportunities if you're an experienced welder already, either through apprenticeships or bootcamps. Bootcamps are shorter time wise, but you have to support yourself through them. I believe boilermaker boot camp is 6 weeks.

[@Quickstop92]

Unions are harder to get into… more work equals more pay. Here’s the thing the pay will always be the same union vs non union give or take a few dollars but at the end of a 10 year career path one is making 33.50 and the other is making 33.50 with a pension full heath dental vision and annuity so really union is 50 and non union is more like 37.50 it’s a big difference it’s honestly on average probably a 40-60 percent differential

[@killaQSG]

Not here in dc union workers make almost 20$ more than non union workers

[@ryanabbott1104]

Exactly

[@georgerafa5041]

Union pays Union dues but that still probably comes out with union ahead. Just dont pretend there's no downsides

[@FidelAlt]

@@georgerafa5041but don’t all those dues go towards the union having all those good benefits? Whereas non unions workers might not get the same amount of benefit and pay. Without a union other employers would pay less and offer less benefits.

[@benjamintorres9211]

@@georgerafa5041union wages still outpay non-union most of the time even after dues

[@phillipborbon2059]

Actually, union members usually get paid higher, not always, but usually, especially at the end when you reach journeymen. When I worked in sheet metal, I had no training and low pay, and union members made a couple of dollars more with training.

[@Illuminatisevil]

A journeyman sheet metal worker in California makes 73 bucks an hour on the check. Whole package is like 130.🤑

[@DennisFisher-ng3ex]

Joining the union and learning the trade changed my like. You do a 5 year apprenticeship on the job training and school work. When you journey out, you’ll be set for life! Get benefits, pension, 401 K built up and possibly a credit union if your hall offers one. You have to start somewhere and the hard work will pay off !!

[@user-gs5wo4zt8q]

At my local, apprentices can learn to weld on their time unless they want to turn out as a welder journeyman, you can make journeyman scale as an apprentice if you get certified through the union

[@unionmoney5601]

I’m glad you even brought this up you forgot to mention medical dental and vision insurance. In my local you get it as soon as you start and you and your family are covered. No out of pocket. UA local 469 till the wheels fall off.

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

👌

[@chipcook6646]

@@unionmoney5601 even a death package

[@Omni-Presi]

Thanks for speaking on this. This just helped me see a way through.

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Glad it was helpful!

[@JP94.]

You can also talk to a company foreman and he might help you out and teach you how to weld

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Right

[@ENCAGED79]

I definitely agree with this. It’s all situational. Can you afford to go through an apprenticeship? Can you afford to pay for school on top of your bills? I luckily got into USW as a utility worker, worked every hour of available OT I could until a position in the trades opened up. It was a two year program that included 10, 40 hour modules of classroom/lab theory plus a 12-16 week course on welding. All based on what we do to keep a steel mill running. Ten years later, I’ve learned a lot, with still so much to learn. I’m grateful for the opportunity I received, but as I look back, I wish I had taken up a trade like welding on my own. You don’t realize how much money you can make and save with proper welding knowledge alone. Good luck to all the future welders and tradesmen out there! In a world wrapped around computers, our skills are needed more than ever and companies are paying more than ever to fill those positions.

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Yessir

[@humbertomacias3239]

6 months in at on my hvac union apprenticeship. I make 28 hourly take home and with OT it takes my check to 14-1500 after taxes. Journeymen make close to 49 and industrial starts at 55. Most guys that are good are paid over scale. It's very true about knowing somebody. It's hard to get into the union, I waited 8 months just to get the call and I knew the higher ups at the shop I was assigned to.

[@sewerrat7612]

What area I'm in jersey hvac doesn't make near that ime without opening thier own company. Owner of company I work for is licensed makes more running plumbers and electricians.

[@humbertomacias3239]

@sewerrat7612 Phoenix, Arizona UA Local 469 plumbers, pipefitters, and hvac. The same local dispatches to Intel, apple, tsmc, etc we renegotiate our contract every 3 years and we have amazing benefits. You can look up the journeymen wages on their website, wages are transparent within our union.

[@humbertomacias3239]

@sewerrat7612 my journeymen makes over 70 an hour, close to 80 if I'm correct. He can fix absolutely anything, doesn't matter the size.

[@humbertomacias3239]

@@sewerrat7612 Arizona local 469

[@humbertomacias3239]

@sewerrat7612 This is in Phoenix, Arizona. Same union building TSMC

[@1Indig0]

My dad was a welder wanted me to go in the trade. Showed me how to stick weld with tungsten. He wanted me to get an apprenticeship and get the journeyman. Because it’s at that point your qualifications can give you opportunities for better positions. I know a guy who had somebody else paid for courses for welding and never even showed up or even tried. Sure. Sure wish I had some kind of opportunity like that.

[@davidlofton9820]

Stick weld with tungsten?

[@nickbesserer]

You mean tig weld?

[@Julius-i5f]

He has literally jus explained my Goal perfectly that's crazy

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Ayo

[@markwhite5344]

It’s so true about knowing someone. I def wouldn’t be where I’m at today if it wasn’t for a buddy of mine who happens to be a PM for a company through the ABC.

[@wuzgoanon9373]

As a master electrician, I didn't do either. I worked as an electeician with mtuple companies for several years, found every study guide I could buy, and then passed my exam. In business for over 16 years. There are a lot of ways to get what you want. Just get serious and go do something.

[@Dmowery5036]

I got on the apprenticeship for a local here. 6-7,000 hours until your a journeyman. 3-4 years they said. I was hired and was waiting 2 months and still no work, so I went elsewhere.

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Oof

[@JM-iz3fr]

I went through the electrical apprenticeship a while ago. I didn't know anyone when I applied, tested and was accepted. Yes you have an apprenticeship of 4-5 years and your wage increases with time and school applied. You gain so much during that time as long as YOU apply YOURSELF! So not gonna say you don't need to know someone or a family member is already a member that it helps, however the majority of the guys ang ladies I have had the pleasure to work with were not related to nor did they have an "in".

[@user-d5t1n]

Been on both sides of the fence. There are pros and cons to both. Generally if your a member, unions are pretty good in terms of benefits and pay. Unfortunately that means it will cost employers and customers more. The tenure system benefits and protects older members but it can be unfair to newer members. No such issues in a non union work place. Also to put it bluntly there are a lot of popular dysfunctional assholes who would otherwise be unemployed without the protections of a union.

[@vaughnbernard2577]

I went to community college with a major in welding for 2 years for free and now I have a job as an ironworker and have connections to get me into the union soon

[@Jimmermahomoney]

James speaking real world stuff. Unions also find you work, rig welder u by yo self. It’s what fits you.

[@KingSlat730]

Thank you for posting this unc

[@marioalosangeles]

I prefer the non union route. Using my GI bill to pay for trade school.

[@Roaddog223]

Same here and I got a couple scholarships to cover housing too so my bah can cover my gas food and minor bills.

[@Roaddog223]

AWS has a $1k welder training scholarship it’s easy to apply on their website the deadline is November 30th

[@TheTimelessBeacon]

With the union, you can still use the post 9/11 for OJT

[@KBoogiie]

@@TheTimelessBeaconyes sir 1st year $48 package and $4900 a month from bah 💸

[@chilidoritos2866]

Same lol

[@johnfulgham8876]

True. True. Go union ! Benefits, vacations, time off , pension when you're still young . Union!!

[@lsgsrob2102]

Start your own welding, electrician, plumbing etc… business. Better than any union or pension or any benefits. Not to mention you build something that’s your own.

[@thedonut2118]

That can be a goal but I’m pretty sure this video is talking about how best to learn those skills in the first place

[@kennydubois2700]

My whole life my goal has always been to work for myself and have my own business I always wanted to own my own trucking company so I got my cdl when I was 18 and started trucking and then covid hit and rates dropped to complete dirt and the price of fuel nowadays it’s really got me thinking about how it’s going to be almost impossible to successfully operate my own trucking company and now at 22 I’m looking into a welding program and then get into the welding field for a couple years and then start my own welding company because that is definitely a lot more doable than a trucking company in this economy. Sorry for the whole paragraph I just saw your comment and I completely agree and that is my life goal 🙂

[@lsgsrob2102]

@@kennydubois2700 love it! We live in the easiest time ever to make money. Just put in the work, sacrafice for a few years and it will pay off for the rest if your life. More than worth spending your life check to check because you might “get hit by a bus tomorrow”. I know people who’ve been living by that motto for decades and all they do is continue to complain and blame the system.

[@tylerjaime5094]

How you going to do that with no prior knowledge genius. This is about people trying to learn welding.

[@lsgsrob2102]

@@tylerjaime5094 exactly num nuts. Learn first then start your own thing. Are you dense?

[@garrettstephens91]

It also depends upon the trade too. Welding is different. Plumbing, Electrician, and HVAC in my state require by law a mimimum of 4 years of on-the-job apprenticeship plus minimum 576 hours of schooling for each of those, so going through a Union Apprenticeship is not far off from going to a non-union trade school. Welding may only be 24 weeks, but not all trades are like that.

[@tweekendz]

In my experience the most common and available welding jobs are paying the same or less than an apprenticeship. The most common form of welding is in factories and depending on your area they start between $18-$25/hr. The big welding apprenticeships (ironworker, boilermaker, steamfitter) all start in that range or higher for apprenticeships and you're guaranteed regular pay raises. I know guys who started the same time outside of union and may have started making more, but are making less 5 years later than the new journeyman. Especially if you consider non-union hourly isn't their take home. But again it depends on your area and specific area of welding you're doing.

[@jesse11111]

Yeah I applied to the company and got hired then had to join the laborers union. Super easy. Didn't have to do an apprenticeship either. Got vested in 5 years then promoted to operator and they retroactively applied most of if not all my credits from laboring and now I'm also vested in the operators union without going through an apprenticeship. And in my area I know for a fact that I'm making quite a bit more than non union when looking at my total package.

[@FlakeTillman]

Most major power generating facilities are legally required by contract to hire local Union Welders first, and traveling Union welders are second on the hiring priority list. Non-union welders are last in hiring priority. If you hire on through a Union Hall, they will let you weld as a Union Apprentice.

[@williammahoney2863]

Youre mostly right. Did both and the union is actually the way to go, the end of trade school youre on your own for the most part. Theyll give you a list of jobs and its your job to figure it out and where you wanna go, unions pay is pretty decent. Way more decent then what a regular welding job will pay. A basic mig job after passing a test when you get done with trade school pays way less then the union ever well even as an apprentice.

[@josebajonero4754]

Im a unión worker and i wanna say you did a great job at explaining that

[@rickitysplitz7035]

My union here in Nashville, you start at 19-22 an hour and then get paid around 40 an hour after two years.

[@SBlast-j2f]

I just started my second year apprenticeship. And im looking forward to learning in a class of my peers without paying for it. Plus I get on the job training. Benefits and a retirement plan. Im a tin knocker. And plan to be the rest of my life.

[@thomasdragosr.841]

IBEW apprenticeship is 5 years. Depending on the contract, you will receive a raise every 6 months, you will have health coverage after the first 6 months. By the time you top out you will be making close to journeyman's wages plus that retirement and health insurance. You also have the benefit of being able to go to any Union Hall in the US and go to work.

[@johnwright6706]

Most apprenticeships have progressive wage, each year you earn a higher wage, it caps at like 80-90% until you journey out. However, most locals if an apprentice is a certified welder and he goes out as a welder, he will make full scale.

[@pati8142]

Ironworker for 37 years, started out as a punk, had a lot of great JIW show me how to do the work properly and safely, retired at 55, with a great pension and fun memories…

[@qbanz00]

Are we talking retired with enough to finish out your bucket list and never have to work again ?

[@pati8142]

@@qbanz00 been retired for 7 years and have more then I need and travel and enjoying life without working…

[@moblack5883]

@@qbanz00 right because just saying a pension means nothing. All pensions are not created equally.

[@cdh2187]

Apprenticeship teaches you on the job training the right way through a 4 to 5 year on the job training. You don’t get the same OTJ in a trades school in a classroom/booth in 24 months. Big difference. You gain the experience through apprenticeship and earn being a journeyman. Instead of a green horn bad ass booth welder.

[@stylex19]

This is very useful information for someone who's 56 years old and new to the industry.

[@zakiabdalle2195]

😢😅😂😂😂😂🎉

[@İncelusChinus]

Apprenticeship aint even a choice and I'm 22.Nobody wont take an old man like you as an apprentice you have no choice

[@stylex19]

@user-is2pe8nt7t That's what I'm saying. I have no delusions or desperation for just another job in the industry. I design and manufacture specialized athletic equipment. I used to think about getting in as an apprentice somewhere just to get industry experience, but don't need that because working for someone else for 20 years, or even 5 years, is not part of my agenda. Be well in what you do for you.

[@Overboard30]

These days most unions like carpenters, plumbers/fitters, sheet metal, and electricians teach welding and HVAC. I believe there’s no specific union or non-union programs that just do one or the other. So there’s a slim chance you’ll get pay and benefits with just a job or non union. but with a union it’s guaranteed if you put the work in. And I’m only speaking from a worker perspective.

[@mannypac95]

Very well explained 👍🏽

[@mkzaymrright]

good/great explanation

[@dillonhillier]

Another option, go drilling, save enough to outfit your own shop, teach yourself to weld (had the basics from hs), and be self employed.

[@MD-sg4oc]

Outside of the pension/retirement, unions provide great health benefits that other small shops can’t compete with. Also typically union job sites will have a little more priority of safety standards. This is just from my perspective after being on both sides.

[@mikeingeorgia1]

I spent just about my entire career in a union. Some a-hole that started the week before you did will ALWAYS have better assignments, better off days and better vacations than you EVER will, simply because he started working there slightly before you did. Whether or not you’re a good worker is irrelevant.

[@andrewbarthen4143]

Not true in my 30+ years experience in a union The boss wants workers that produce Production equals $ for him

[@mikeingeorgia1]

@@andrewbarthen4143 in that regard you’re correct. But normally the boss doesn’t decide who is doing which job. Seniority decides. And the bums get to skate by because it takes so much effort to fire them, so the good employees get to do extra work to make up for the bums. I was a union officer for 19 years. 10% of the employees caused us 90% of the headaches and caused us to spend huge amounts of money defending them. Occasionally you’d think one of the problem children was finally gone, only to have the National Labor Relations Board bring them back a year or so later. It was ridiculous.

[@thomasryan5681]

I was a union plumber's apprentice but once I realized that I was just a number and wouldn't be pay graded on my individual performance but would have to go through the 3-5 year apprentice plan, I dropped out after 1.5 years. I then went into special hazard fire protection and easily worked my way up to above and beyond union wages. I enrolled in a 401k at a early age so that covered the retirement. To each their own. I know union workers who are now enjoying a very comfortable retirement.

[@qqslp]

Sheet metal union... Such a fun career

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Nice

[@billygoat573]

SMART?

[@qqslp]

@@billygoat573 yes

[@billygoat573]

@@qqslp i go in for my interview next month. was it hard to get in ? how long did you wait

[@OhhhJP]

Welding is just about the only trade I’d understand going to a trade school for rather than an apprenticeship.

[@Chipperdipper9]

Our union benefits currently equate to $38 an hour! You start at $31 and some change… and whithin a year and passing your first semester you’re at $40/hr. Oh and overtime is double time. Work out of the zone? $63 a day tax free. 7 days a week no matter if you work 4 days or 7… go union if you can folks. Get laud off? They will find you work. Its a few thousand in dues for insane gains. Im living proof.

[@jo-eo4fr]

A college is doing a program where I can learn welding while in highschool. I will be an apprentice for 300 hours split into apprentice 1$2 over 6 hours per day. So I'll apprentice for a little under 2 months. Then I learn smaw for another 300. Then be a welder for 450 hours. I say that's good.

[@noahcraig2452]

you will definitely have a higher chance of getting a job when you’re a journeyman anyday in my area, trade school is good not either way you’re still gonna make a good career. But if a job has 2 welders to choose from one from college and one journeyman, they more than likely gonna choose the journeyman

[@FirefighterCampbellNWFD]

I know this is old now but I work for the union as a diesel mechanic in public transportation for my city. The hardest part of my job is driving 20 minutes to work……. that’s literally all. I get paid to pretty much sit on my ass lol. I’m still very new to it but apparently that’s how it is.

[@ricotrillfiger7324]

How’s it going as of right now if you don’t mind updating

[@FirefighterCampbellNWFD]

@@ricotrillfiger7324 Yea absolutely. I ended up leaving about a month ago to pursue something new. The main reason being that I got tired of literally just not doing anything. I was only there “just incase” they needed me I feel like but thank goodness I was getting paid! To most, that’s the dream job right there but I’m a very active person and I like to be on the move. I would also like to add that they were not happy that I would sit for a 10 hour shift playing in my phone… I expressed my anger towards management that I am getting treated very disrespected for something that is out of my control because of them! There is more to this if ya care to know. Nonetheless, I like to think that it has nothing to do with the union but the company itself. I’d highly recommend joining a union. Great benefits, pay and job security, my experience sucked unfortunately. Because of all the free time I had, I decided to go back to school to earn my degree in fire science, I got hired on as a volunteer firefighter and start EMT school in May!

[@Emmanuel13419]

People love talking down on union apprenticeships, but that is the best trades specific training you can get. Not to mention becoming a journeyman in your respective trade puts you in the top percent of earners in your trade due to the “prevailing wage” agreement. Yes as an apprentice you will make less than a journeyman but you don’t have as much knowledge as the journeyman or experience, you are essentially being paid to learn and develop. Not to mention the benefits and retirement accounts that your contractor is paying into on your behalf. No disrespect to the non-union tradesmen out there, but you don’t know the half of what unions have to offer.

[@joeyjordan1209]

Union apprentice start about 50% journeyman pay and get a raise every 6 months until they reach journeyman payscale.. most all trades in the union work like this

[@caleb2507]

20-30 years in 1 area, aka Union (good pay, benefits, opportunities, and retirement. OR… work for someone else until you get your own business going (short term may suck and take a while to build but can be done if you’re smart with it). You’ll make far more money and be free to retire whenever you want if that’s your goal. Self starter- apprenticeship Want to be a Mr./ Mrs. Jones- Union Both are good. Personality and goals make the difference.

[@finkthreely7089]

I went union at age 31, now 35. Best career decision I ever made, never looking back. My employer-paid health ins, dental, vision covers my spouse and dependents. My boss no longer controls me. I don't have to compete with my peers. Double-time pay is nice. Any time over 8 hrs is OT. Employer-paid retirement. If (someone non-union) were maxing out a 401k and paying for platinum health insurance for their whole family, how much net hourly wages are they really left with? My only deductions are taxes and union dues. I made higher annual gross income than a union journeyman before joining the apprenticeship. By year 3, while I was still an apprentice, I was taking home the same or more than my old job.

[@danielsanchez4414]

Union carpenter here. I take classes every time i get the opportunity, and it's all free knowledge from people who have been in the field.

[@jtiz3112]

Apprenticeship is the way to go. You’ll be learning everything and SAFETY! Unions have trade schools also

[@sewerrat7612]

Unions definitely do a better job of ensuring saftey non you have to look out for yourself generally.

[@ithinkweregoingtoneedabigg8525]

I just went through my local Union veterans electrical program. Apprentice pay starts at $27 with a $2 increase every 6 months plus full benefits. I met some journeymen making over $100 an hour. I’m upset I wasted so much time in other fields.

[@Jiggy609]

Age?

[@ithinkweregoingtoneedabigg8525]

@ I’m 29

[@juanpablomagadan5296]

Are talking about VEEP?

[@da900smoove1]

Trust and Believe that Union members have a Advantage over Non Union members in Pay & Benefits of at least 25% or More doing the Same Tasks depending on the Skilled Trade

[@mikethemechanic7395]

Diesel mechanic here. First shop was union. I was 25. You had to be age 45 and up for the weekends off. 52 and up for summertime vacation. 62 and up for all of the overtime. 63 plus to get any holiday off. I was making 60 percent of the journeyman and paying the same dues and insurance. I was eating ramen while the old farts took all of the overtime and buying new HD motorcycles and 5th wheel trailers. F that.

[@TheRealSteveMay]

Yep, in a lot of ways being in the union feels like you're working for your union "brothers" with seniority as much as for the company if not more.

[@matthewhoward7384]

And did you have no way of knowing this or didnt read the fine print before joining ? Or knew about it and joined anyway ?

[@mikethemechanic7395]

@@matthewhoward7384 . This was in 2000. You could not research it in the internet then. All they told me was it was a union shop and it had good benefits and retirement. Even today. You cannot find any videos on Union seniority and how it works..

[@alimacias3904]

I’m going on my third month as an apprentice for plumbing starting at $26 an hr

[@sewerrat7612]

Sound like New Jersey's rate

[@matthewreams4345]

I applied for IBEW 613 apprenticeship in July and started work this week. Idk anybody, didn’t even get interviewed

[@sparker.24]

Impossible

[@Rt27555]

Trade school you're left with a shit load of debt though, especially as a young guy on the come up, it gets hard paying a school bill when youre done

[@GaryStipes]

Unions are good, but the sad thing about it is your laid off a lot more! You do want a better wage with the union and you do get retirement benefits, but you’re only allowed to work only union jobs! I’ve had family members work in the union and there were sometimes they were out of work six months at a time

[@sewerrat7612]

Plumbing union in my areas like that I've turned them down a few times no way I'm not working to support my family because they say so.

[@53roger]

I worked union all my life and pension+401k is HUGE when you retire. Yea, beginning pay scale vs non union is a little lower but the other benefits far out weigh the small loss of wage at the start.

[@tdobson888]

The apprenticeship has no upfront cost so in the end of the day it's basically even for the 1st 2 years then the next 3 years plus you are going to be much further ahead because the union is going to pay more than non union and the retirement is much better

[@sewerrat7612]

Depends on location union electricians do great where I'm at was taught be a former union plumber who warned me how inconsistent union work is in the area plus they don't pay that well have great benefits though. Plus some non union shops will pay for your schooling if you show potential.

[@treypelham5515]

Go to the trade school, being free is worth it.

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

That's ultimately up to the person

[@injusticeanywherethreatens4810]

Honestly... It is up to the person... Different strokes for different folks. Personally I prefer union since those massive employers cant stiff you when it comes to pay and benefits.

[@Tom-og7fi]

Trade school is definitely not free.

[@tdeal4652]

Apprenticeships would be good if they condensed it down a bit. No reason it should take 5 years. I quit mine for a multitude of reasons. Pay, benefits, pension, moral, list goes on. I quit, got a new job, and in just less than a year was making a couple of dollars more than the journeymen are at that local. Benefits & pension are better as well. That was 2.5 years ago now. And we're rolling into a wage year, so we get another 4.25% raise.

[@GokaiiRed]

Apprenticeships through unions are the way to go. It’s not true about having to know someone. Just apply, do well on your aptitude test, and do well in the interview. Once you’re in, the pay isn’t the best. But keep your head down, work hard, do what you’re told. Oh, and go to class. Do the homework. I didn’t know anything about tools or anything before I started doing electrical work. Now I’m getting sworn in and have learned a lot of useful skills. Apprenticeships might be the slow path but you’re surrounded by guys that know what they’re doing. They want you to succeed for the sake of the union. You’re an investment and they don’t want you to fail. It’s a two sided thing. You want to do well so you can make it through and do good work. They want you to make it through so they have skilled labor to put out in the field.

[@TheRealSteveMay]

I'm a machinist and have worked in both union and non union shops. In the rust belt where I'm at I gotta say I hated my union job. It was seven days a week and a lot of that time was twelve hour days. Everything is based on seniority, not ability, which is great if you have a lot of seniority and not a lot of ability. I make a full six dollars an hour more at the shop I'm in now compared to my old USW job, and my benefits are identical. I didn't like the shop politics/drama that the union place had either. It's a shame because I do think apprenticeship is the best model for learning a trade job, but I wish there were more shops offering them without involving a union. A lot of the union guys are a bit strange too. They make the union and their trade their whole personality a lot of the time. It's very cultish. They don't all do it, but at least half of them do.

[@matthewhoward7384]

Quick question , are apprenticeships without a union backing them hard to find? Ive been reading through this debate and at first im thinking go union all the way, when in reality i just want the apprenticeship and this comment made me think twice. Im 19 with no welding experience thus far

[@TheRealSteveMay]

@@matthewhoward7384 in my experience they are hard to find outside of a union. I'm not saying they don't exist, I just haven't seen them. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

[@craigfinno551]

U dont need to know someone to get in the union. You get paid during apprenticeship get benefits. Nothing beats on the job training

[@iamcancer3298]

Let's not forget that a union is going to pick seniority over skill and effort.

[@markmcilrath9530]

Not true

[@sewerrat7612]

Brothers an electrical engineer tried to join union they wanted him to start as an apprentice. Think union can be a good choice if you start out in one but no way would I join one later.

[@andrewbarthen4143]

How your non union pension? Sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward

[@JeanLeite-d1e]

Not sure where you got this from but it's antiquated and outdated. This hasn't happened since the 80's in ANY Union.

[@olympicblackpowderrifles3155]

4 years of school and low apprentice pay but now i make 2800 a week in the sheetmetal union as a journyman.

[@Matthew-i3h]

I went to a trade school 10 yrs later I am applying for union. I have connections and hard headed. Each option is great if you can get in union go. Especially in 2024.

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Thanks for sharing!

[@donaldcurtis9229]

I went to a vocational school in high school.For I got into Union went to class for 3 weeks.Instructor call the business engineer and said this kid.Don't belong here, send him to work. I was in apprentice ten months

[@andrewbarthen4143]

After 31 years of being a union sheet metal worker, I’m about to retire and I will receive just under what I take home weekly now working 40 hours from my pension not to mention my annuity We have to fight back against these non union shops who take advantage of their workers

[@quietobserver4636]

You should start by fight back against the AFL-CIO backing Democrat politicians who takes away union jobs and let's in cheap foreign labor through our southern border.

[@juanpablomagadan5296]

My question is, so you go the apprenticeship route. Is from 4 to 5 years and you get your JourneyMen license. But if you go the trade school route and is only 6 months do you still get your JM license or do you have to work to compensate for those hours? I’m confused.

[@waynerusso7975]

update: you can get journeyman money in your first year as a welder with union certification but union certs are difficult but worth it.

[@darianwj9012]

I’m 26 went into job corps to lean heavy equipment after I finished I was sent to locals 3 Rancho Marietta training program going the apprenticeship ship route was smart in my opinion job corps is corny but without them I’d still be on the waiting list to get in I had to put up with bull shit but it was worth it in the long run

[@sivcis8675]

Well, I don’t know if you guys should make an update or not but this is absolutely horseshit depending on what union you join boilermakers or pipefitters I am a boilermaker myself so I can tell you that if you join apprenticeship and you can weld a heavy wall 6g tube Tig root 7018 fill and cap at a common arc You will start at 90% of journeyman scale which in my local is $42 hr, and no, it does not take a long time to get into the apprenticeship Max a month waiting period, also for those apprentices who want to finish the apprenticeship quicker you can finish the online courses and attend classes year one through four depending on how they are scheduled at your local and finish in 2 years. One other note to make all the certifications you get at a trade school do not matter in the union and you will have to retest for everything they can only count towards your apprenticeship hours.

[@jesuscarreon6328]

Speaking from a non union person who changed to union I did the apprenticeship program it was completely free they taught me everything that I actually need to learn ON THE JOB reall life training and learned with in my 1 st year I was so dedicated and help from my lord Jesus Christ I got my welding certs and on my second year I was so good at welding and my BA keep receiving calls for me to go to work to the point they graduated me early and know making 34-125 plus benifits

[@jesuscarreon6328]

Debt free by the way don’t need to spend the 30 or 20 k in trade school

[@ryanabbott1104]

Union apprentices most everywhere start out at 50-60% of journeyman scale. Most places get a 10% bump every 6 months until you’re at scale. You earn your pension and benefits while an apprentice. It’s pretty common in the Union to retire early with a good monthly check and a million or more in your annuity/pension. Live better, work union. If anyone wants info, PM me.

[@setosbagofgoodies995]

is that as an electrician or hvac?

[@ryanabbott1104]

@@setosbagofgoodies995 I’m an Operating Engineer (cranes), but our apprenticeship is set to similar to electrical and HVAC. Typical apprenticeships are 3-5 years.

[@ponraul1221]

Not all the time, but MOST of the time, if you aren't in a union your employer will low-ball you. If you want to maintain at least a bit of your dignity, join a union if given the opportunity.

[@ifaifa982]

Sounds great, How much does your tradschool cost?

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Visit our website for all the info you need! linktr.ee/WesternWelding

[@gobulls372]

Local 130 plumber here. Union is the way to go. You just can't beat the pay, retirement plan, and insurance coverage. Along with more workers' rights and not having to haggle for raises we get yearly

[@peteeny1265]

If you dont get into apprenticeship , I’ll say picking up a non-union jobs is much better than going through trade school, Another thing too is once you get your journeyman license you usually could organize into the union as a journeyman

[@Bearebeadwelding]

Went to trade school for 13 months got all my tickets stick, Mig, flux, tig aluminum/ stainless, pipe open root cwb / tssa (Canadian), now I’m going to the boiler union which is starting me at 34$ as a fist year apprentice. Journeyman red seal rate is 64$ an hour and I don’t have to even leave my city 🤣. ANYONE CAN DO THIS WITHIN 1-4 years experience you can clear over 100k/150k yearly easy

[@luisarashirovideo]

I think it all comes down to what you want with your life, you want to be a employee all your life and care more about job security then union is your path. Trade school is more independent and there’s no roof, you can even build a company. Union no, you leave the union you loose all the benefits. As an independent you’ll always work for yourself but it’s also harder than being an employee no matter what profession you have, from welders to engineers it’s a path of life.

[@WesternWeldingAcademy]

Definitely boils down to what you want

[@ponraul1221]

If you're a non-union employee you'll most likely lose all the benefits anyway too.

[@Squig911]

Not to mention your insurance. Your total package working union through the apprenticeship is worth more than you will make working non-union.

[@Cheez1979]

He’s not telling you about ALL the benefits. Pension ..and a 401k … PTO …. A company owner won’t give you that …