How Much Should Your Hunting Arrows Weigh?

[@Jits.kid420]

Just shot my first doe of the year. 14 yards 550 grn arrow with a schwacker 252 100grn cut on contact on the business end. Did a loop and piled up 30 yards in front of my stand. The set up to make the kill was all from your info. Thanks for all you do jason. Edit: full double lung pass thru and buried halfway up the shaft into the side of the ridge I was on.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@Jits.kid420 outstanding. Congratulations on your first deer of the season!

[@robshipley7543]

Spitting truth right there brother im shooting 45 lbs 43 at my 27 1/2 draw my arrow weight is 520 with a super sharp head I keep shots under 15 yards and pass through every single time

[@SamkoTradBow]

perfect

[@carolkmc2855]

Absolutely right! The lust for speed and the contraptions they use to attain it is beyond belief. Heavy arrows are quieter, more forgiving therefore more accurate, and so much easier on the bow. I shoot an 65# compound bow and my arrows weigh 525, 600, and some of them are 750. Now some of these are my own custom built arrows but work wonderfully for me. Great video as always Samko.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@carolkmc2855 well said and agree 100 on all points

[@papajohnsy6659]

Could you please explain to me how heavy arrows are more forgiving? If that was the case you'd think the people shooting 55m outdoor tournaments would use the heaviest arrows they could build, as you need all the forgiveness you can get for those shots

[@SparkleDonkey]

@@papajohnsy6659 Sure, I'll bite. For a trad bow, the slower acceleration of a heavy vs. light arrow results in less hand shock and excess kinetic energy causing vibration because that energy has to go somewhere. For the distances that most trad bow hunters shoot (< 20 yards) the amount of drop you have to compensate for a heavy arrow is negligible. That said, a 'heavy' arrow will also start to slow down noticeably after 20 yards resulting in more drop - at least with my bow. So, if you're a target shooter trying to hit 55m you're going to have to compensate for a lot of drop on that heavy arrow. A lighter arrow is better suited for that purpose as it has a flatter trajectory. I use 440gn micro diameter arrows for 3D and target shooting out to 30 yards, and 650 to 710 gn hunting arrows. Each arrow for a purpose.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@papajohnsy6659 forgiving if grasses, leaves twigs wind etc. Things that we deal with all the time when hunting

[@carolkmc2855]

@@papajohnsy6659 Light arrows are rapidly effected in flight by every error made be the archer; release, plucking the string, shaking while aiming, and especially the wind. Heavy arrows absorb almost all of the energy of the bow and carries it to the target, they penetrate deeper and resist the wind. FOC brings the arrow back on track and corrects fishtailing and release errors. Because they absorb more energy by remaining on the string longer, the bow does not rattle and reflex itself thereby making more noise and over time damaging the bow. Two schools of thought here: Fast arrows get to the deer before he can realize the shot (fast arrows make noise that are distinguished from normal forest noises), slow arrows make less noise and the noise is much less disturbing. Give it a try.

[@flintriverexpeditions6634]

Great content as always! Im right at 670@57# with 300 grains up front on a long bow. Im a 20 yard and under shooter. Trajectory is meaningless at my yardages but an exit hole is a must.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@flintriverexpeditions6634 love it! Agree 100

[@bradlauber9097]

Compound bows no problem going through deer with a 65 lb bow 450 to 470 grain arrow fixed blades. My trad bows 10 to 12 grains per pound, I shoot right through deer. 45 to 50 lb trad bows with 1.1/8 cut on contact broadheads... I think my front of center is about 20 to 22 percent with 200 and 250 grains up front.. Thank you for the Great video!!!!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@bradlauber9097 great set ups. Glad you enjoyed it

[@elijahyungwirth9743]

There's extremes to advocating for either light or heavy. Iv hunting only compound for 19 years, iv had heavy arrows park in far shoulders and light arrows go behind shoulders and disappear into the sunset. I'm completely onboard with shooting a good fixed blade, 485gn total with a 50gn insert from gold tip.. end of the day, shot placement is king. I look forward to trying to hunting with a longbow next year and I will for sure take to heart this info from what you have learned, it's a whole new world for me.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@elijahyungwirth9743 glad you enjoyed it

[@sillybilly44444444]

I know this is all pretty basic to you but, for me, I haven't really been into archery since I was a kid and this was extremely informative. I like the intuitive and concise way you explained it. Thanks for the upload.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Thank you and welcome back to archery

[@FDRGREG]

Your content transcends all archery. I’m primarily a crossbow hunter 2 years in. I hunted with and still have a couple of compounds. I shoot a much heavier total bolt weight than a lot of people. Everything is relative but I’m happy with less speed and more momentum even with a crossbow. Better killing efficiency and less stress on the bow.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@FDRGREG agree on that set up 100%. Heavy works best in my opinion

[@nightshadefern162]

Wish I had seen this video two months ago, I was just lost when it came to arrow weight. I stumbled into a decent setup, by sheer luck. 574 grains on a 45 lb, 100 grain heads, 40 grain adapter to run threaded heads. I made my own broadheads because I couldnt find the weight I wanted in a traditional look. I may play around with a 150 grain head (so 190 with the adapter) and a slightly lighter arrow to see if the weight forward helps.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@nightshadefern162 thats pretty awesome you made your own heads!

[@Wendmann]

"Front weight pulls" - yes Sir! Best explanation based on experience I ever heard.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@thedangler1371]

I gotta rethink my whole set up. One pin is what I use to use and gotta go back. 20 yard max. I shoot 60 pounds on a 2003 Hoyt mt sport. Gotta go to heavier arrow. Thanks for to info Jason.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@thedangler1371 if I was shooting a 60 pound compound my personal set up would be a 700 grain arrow wide 2 blade head, 1 pin set at 20 yards. That would be an absolute power house.

[@michaelsheroda7654]

Great video! What would you recommend for 40 - 45 lb traditional recurves or longbows ?

[@dwallich56]

I'm at 12-12.5 grains per pound draw weight from my longbows. 500-550 grains arrow weight for a 40 lb longbow and for another 45 lb longbow.

[@michaelhaworth8317]

Great analogies. Try and tell so many people this train of thought, especially my compound friends. Always great info.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@michaelhaworth8317 most compound shooters want flat shooting out to 80 yards and do want the advantages of heavy as it put too much gap in their pins

[@journeyman7189]

Makes sense and your dart analogy made it clear. Thanks Jason Nate

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@journeyman7189 glad you enjoyed it

[@archer7141]

For the last 10 years I have shot a light arrow 420 grain out of my 60# compound and with cut on contact heads have gotten complete broadside past thru on bucks out to about 30 yards. That being said, this year I’ve upped to a heavier arrow in order to get the 150 grain Magnus broadheads I’m using to fly well. My arrow weight is now 560 grains, trajectory is good to 30 yards but after that a 5 yard error in range estimation can lead to missed vitals. Needless to say 30 yards will now be my limit which is fine for treestand hunting in PA.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@archer7141 love that you are keeping distances 30 and under. Even if someone is an incredibly accurate shooter beyond 30 there are ao many variables and animals are always moving either naturally or reactive. Alot can go wrong the farther the animal is. Love hearing people say they are gonna keep shots close

[@kenvang9237]

I forgot what video, but you mentioned that you make/assemble your own inserts. If you may, may you show how you do it? I'm curious and want to try.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@kenvang9237 I did. It's actually cheaper to buy 200 grain inserts now thst they make them. Brass ones are on Amazon and ebay and stainless steel ones from ethics archery. But I do show how I make them in my how I build my arrows vids. I think I have 6 or 8 of them. If yoy search make arrows on my channel they will all pop up

[@kenvang9237]

@@SamkoTradBow thank you.

[@msb2948]

Of all the controversies and perplexing dilusions within the hunting world, the most peculiar is that hunters do not vote; and this next upcoming election is one you had better get to understand as your hunting rights are at stake. If you're not registered to vote, get registered and vote against the socialist Harris!

[@ThirdLawPair]

I feel like the whole discussion of arrow weight makes the most sense in the context of traditional bows. A modern compound is twice as powerful as it needs to be, and a crossbow is 3 to 5 times as powerful as it needs to be. Whereas a traditional bow could be limited by penetration, and could be limited by arrow speed. With a trad bow, your choice of arrow weight really could make the difference, whereas with the others you have a huge range of possible arrow weights that will always get the job done.

[@michaelsheroda7654]

Interesting!

[@baraksinz]

And yet you still have many of the big name TV hunters only penetrating to half the arrow with their compounds because they’re shooting light arrows with 2” wide expandables. 😏

[@ThirdLawPair]

@@baraksinz Half the arrow is like 15". For a broadside shot, that is all the way through both lungs. There is some room for personal preference, but there is some rationale for achieving the widest cut possible that makes it all the way through both lungs. If they were losing deer over it, I'd be more critical. But if they are going all the way through both lungs, and the deer are going down quickly and humanely, getting more penetration than that seems mostly a matter of personal preference. Am I wrong?

[@baraksinz]

@@ThirdLawPairI would agree that half an arrow still kills an animal, but if that’s happening on broadside shots through ribs, it also tells me that it may not be a sufficient setup when things don’t go perfectly. It’s not wrong for them to use what they use, it’s just that a heavier arrow would provide more potential for penetration upon inadvertent contact with a shoulder blade or femur.

[@ThirdLawPair]

@@baraksinz Now that is a rationale I can get behind. If your setup maximizes cutting diameter to the point where you are getting just enough penetration, then there's no margin for error. The guy who owns the archery shop around the corner from me is not a big believer in maximizing penetration at the expense of everything else. But even he hunts with what he calls the "oh $#!*" arrow, which is an arrow that can still get the job done if something unexpected happens. My own thinking is that if you make a well-balanced setup that doesn't focus all the way on one particular feature, then it's always going to get the job done. Especially on whitetail.

[@theamputeehunter2074]

When I shot my compound arrow I was drawing 55 pounds and my TAW was like 620 and I ran a 200 grain field point and broadhead and my yardage was 20 yards and in

[@llamawizard]

Good man

[@theamputeehunter2074]

@@llamawizard thanks

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@theamputeehunter2074 perfect

[@T-Mak-s7x]

You helped me a lot. I was afraid to put 75 grains of brass up front now my arrows have 350 grains up front and are far better. I hate to even shoot over 15yds anyway.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@T-Mak-s7x love an arrow with good foc!

[@timothysipin439]

Dr. Ed Ashby suggests at least a 650gr arrow with 20% or greater FOC. 3 to 1 ratio single bevel broadheads. Always bareshaft tune your arrows. Practice Practice Practice and take ethical shots at distances you're comfortable with. I shoot a 50# longbow, 680gr arrows. 300gr broadhead, 75gr insert, giving me 28% FOC. Makes me happy just thinking about it.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@timothysipin439 all spot on points

[@romangrayjr]

A white ball is flying at one's face... is it a golf ball or is it a ping pong ball? Big difference!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@romangrayjr very true.

[@pathfinder5804]

Great analogy!!!

[@christianb5110]

Boom

[@papajohnsy6659]

Just for reference, if we assume a 350gr arrow to be like a ping pong ball, the arrow weight you'd need to have a "golf ball" in comparison is just under 6,000 grains

[@christianb5110]

@@papajohnsy6659 it is often in the example of extremes that the point is made. Id rather not be shot by a ballista bolt compared to a 350 grain arrow.

[@RobertEatonOutdoors]

Excellent review on arrow weights for hunting, especially since I tend to shoot bows under 45#.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@RobertEatonOutdoors glad you enjoyed it

[@davisstellman]

When deciding on arrows... would you rather spend half of your upfront mass on an outsert 100gr for durability and a 100gr broadhead, or is it best to double down and just go for the 200gr broadhead?

[@SamkoTradBow]

Both are great options. The 200 grain head will get the weight more forward increasing your FOC

[@davisstellman]

@SamkoTradBow I think there's that but also opening the availability of higher quality broadhead options like your razors... I may be making a new set now. Thanks Jason!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@davisstellman Love the razors! Hoping to get a chance to use one this evening..lol

[@davisstellman]

@@SamkoTradBow Best of luck! Praying for your success!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@davisstellman thanks

[@cabindweller8421]

Perfect explanation , fully agree. Great presentation sir.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@cabindweller8421 thank you. Glad you enjoyed it

[@gregavanessian4846]

Beautifully explained.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@UncleDanBand64]

I can see both sides of the story. I think one of the biggest drivers in high FOC/Heavy arrows is trying to get a closer point on. Currently I am shooting a heavy arrow. It just took a lot point weight to get the tuning I needed. Back when I started hunting the only options really were fairly heavy because of the heavy shafts. That being said the points were light. Mostly 100 to 125 grain. So, they were low FOC. They definitely didn't bounce off of the animals. Almost always a complete pass through even on Elk. So, for me my priority is a sharp cut on contact 2 blade that flies true. As for whitetail almost any arrow that flies good with a sharp traditional broadhead is gonna blow right through them. The extra penetration is usually just how deep it sticks in the ground on the other side. That being said I do agree that heavier does give more penetration. As for the FOC I am not sure if that matters as much. True a heavy point does fly better or tunes better. I think arrow total weight is a bigger factor than where it is located. I am not sure how we could ever measure it. My guess is 2 arrows of equal weight that tune well from a given bow will give about or near the same results on a given shot. Anyway, I say it is great to have options. I generally always liked that 10 grain rule. Worked for Fred Bear and has worked for me too.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@UncleDanBand64 I think you would really enjoy reading the Ed ashby arrow studies. It does so much testing on different arrows on live African game animals, hundreds of animals over many years and is the most impressive arrow study ever done. You would find it fascinating

[@UncleDanBand64]

@SamkoTradBow I have watched several videos interviews with him. I have also watched several commentary videos on him both pro and con. I am not sure who it was. That was talking about impact paradox. Might have been Jeff Phillips, might have been ranch fairy. That is a possible phenomenon that might give the edge to a arrow of equal weight that had a bigger ratio up front. For sure it will if we are talking about hard targets that bring the arrow to an abrupt stop. Say like plywood or an Elk Shoulder. Animals when hit properly though, not much in it. 2 seasons ago I hunted with a 51 pound Tiny Turkish Bow. It could only be drawn to 26". Not the greatest arrow flight from it either. I shot 600 spine carbon with 100 grain points. In 5 days I killed 4 deer with it. Doubt my arrows weighed 400gr heck probably not 350. All but one deer the arrow blew through and buried in the ground. The one that did not wheeled to run. I just grazed the drivers side rear quarter. The arrow ran the length of the body and poked out the opposite shoulder but the fletching would have been about the center of his lungs. The arrow was just over 26" long. Now normally I wouldn't use something like that. I just had to keep chopping arrow to get it to spine and had to go down to an ultra light point so it hit where I was looking. This is extremely on the other end of the spectrum. Now it was blistering fast. Probably we'll over 200 fps. Dang I am typing to much. I just don't think it matters that much. Good arrow flight, shot placement and a razor sharp 2 blade will always equal death, regardless of arrow weight provided it has at least a modest amount of energy. Still like I said I do prefer that kinda 10 gr per pound minimum. Arrow flight dictates weight for me. Once I get something flying great I stick with it. Currently a high FOC but that was just what tuned. Sorry for my rambling. I have been hunting stick and string for 4 decades, I think I have at least 2 more in me. I will be 60 in December....I am the fittest I have ever been. Turns out Deer and Wild Hog meat are the fountain of youth😃

[@SamkoTradBow]

@UncleDanBand64 love it. And your right deer and hog chasing make for a happy long life

[@tonyezolt4560]

It matters!!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnmXd4qPYr54frs

[@jimscott64]

The simplest way I explain this to people is this: I ask them: Would you rather get hit in the forehead with a ping pong ball going 200 miles an hour or a major league baseball going 90 miles an hour? It's pretty simple. The ping pong ball is going to sting like crazy but that's about it. That baseball however is going to KILL you. It's all about kinetic energy! Dr. Ed Asby found that an arrow has to be at least 500 grains before it can break bone. I think I have quoted him on that properly. I shoot a 45 pound semi recurve longbow built by Jeff Phillips in Alabama. My arrows weigh 700 grains. However, I will not take a shot at any game animal over 20 yards. When I shot compounds, I still would not shoot over 20 yards. For those who doubt what Jason is saying here, I would suggest that watch some of the "Ranch Fairy's" video's or go to Dr. Ed Asby's website and read what he has to say. He has many years experience hunting dangerous game in Africa with recurve and longbows. It's amazing how many people will argue with Science!!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@jimscott64 yep and just made a video a couple days ago about the ashby studies. Excellent info

[@TheMixmastamike1000]

as a know nothing newbie I appreciate the info 👍👍

[@SamkoTradBow]

@TheMixmastamike1000 glad you enjoyed it and welcome to the amazing world of bowhunting

[@georgehardin8452]

This is why everyone needs to listen to you.lastyear i switched from lughter arrows toheavy arrows because of you. Im shooting 52 pounds with 637 grain arrows. 150 grain i serts and a 200 grain razor broadhead which you torned me onto.thats 12.25 gpp.i shot 3 deer lastyear with complete passthrews with my longbow. This evaluation of lite arrows makes no sense. Great video jason.👌👍👏💯

[@SamkoTradBow]

@georgehardin8452 perfect set up and we'll done on the 3 deer!

[@georgehardin8452]

@SamkoTradBow thanks to your advice. I appreciate everything you put on here. You are a true ambassador to traditional bowhunting my friend.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@georgehardin8452 thank you. Glad you are enjoying the videos

[@DixieBowhunter-m5g]

Nice man love heavy arrows.

[@edrankin7001]

Ive never understood light arrows as someone whose hunted compound and even crossbow for a couple years the heavier the better my average shot distance is probably around 14-15 yards no matter the bow type yet to take one with my trad bows but hopefully hopefully that changes this year

[@SamkoTradBow]

Becareful saying this publicly, the compound guys will jump in here are rip you apart for saying such nonsense...lol They do to me anyway. I agree with you 100% not a fan of light weight arrows. Have a couple more videos backing all the heavy arrow stuff up coming out soon too. Good luck this season with the traditional bow. You are going to love hunting with one!

[@edrankin7001]

@SamkoTradBow hunted some last year with it just got some pictures everything was just outside my confidence zone I hunt public in Ohio and the deer are really easy to spook. Took a big bodied point last year with my compound at 13 yards on the ground. Just happened to have to compound out that day for a quick hour sit

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@edrankin7001 Very nice

[@stevedaughton7247]

Shot placement, practice, practice, practice and taking close, ethical shots are most important...period.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@stevedaughton7247 very true. But also many variables to shot placement. Animals are always moving for one reason or another at the shot.

[@stevedaughton7247]

@@SamkoTradBow Yup, animals always move, that is why speed does matter some... that gut shot we have all had, might have clipped a lung if it got there a tenth of a second sooner. Great content my friend, appreciate your videos.

[@jessewolfe9589]

I get what you're saying but about weight but most of the issue is with tuning and broadhead selection. Most of these pro hunters don't actually tune there bows and only shoot sponsored setups. I've been using a 450gr arrow and a fixed blade setup and a 60lbs compound Boe and blow through every thing I've shot. Now traditional archery may be very different and more weight is needed but compounds are a different breed all together and are more tunable do don't need the arrow mass.

[@tbone6203]

Newbie confused i have a old mtn mesa stamped at 45- how do u measure the grains i got the 500 wood arrows and 125 field points and ace bh

[@tbone6203]

Is the 500 the grain of the arrow minus the tip- 3rvs tech musta been hung over today

[@SamkoTradBow]

@tbone6203 great questions! 1. Your bow is probably 45 at 28 inches of draw. And will go up or down 3 pounds per inch either way. Meaning if you are drawing it 27 inches you are shooting 42 pounds and if you are drawing it 29 inches it's about 48 pounds. You want the grains per pound to match your actual bow weight at your draw length. The arrow weight will be the total arrow weight including the broadhead.

[@DeathByPurpleLongbow]

For a 35# longbow, how heavy would you go?

[@SamkoTradBow]

if shooting targets and 3d all the time 300 to 350 grains is great. If hunting Id go 450 minimum probably 500

[@MarkShelby2025]

What's the Traditional Bowhunting world Coming To? Jason's got cammo on 😁 Another good one Man 👍🏻

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@MarkShelby2025 😂😂 only because it's synthetic and the solids in the shirt are too shiny

[@Edaloy27]

Im new to the sport, what does mechanical mean in terms of the arrow?

[@SamkoTradBow]

Mechanical broadheads that are closes and the blades deploy on impact.

[@Crayz919]

If you were shooting a 350 fps Xbow With 20inch bolts what weight would u put up front ?

[@Derrek4Real]

150 grain fixed blade

[@bishoparchery]

@@Crayz919 As much weight as possible as 20-22 inch crossbow arrow/bolts ⚡ want to reverse cartwheel as so short and need much more FOC than our trad and compound vertical bows. Crossbows are tightrope walk and finicky as so short and light per draw weight that the more foc on the crossbows the better ....even than trad and compound, crossbows need FOC as so short of an arrow shaft in my opinion. Regardless, Jason hit the nail on the head, trad guys with much less efficient bows passthrough everything compared to modern archery, because not many trad guys shooting 350 grain arrows etc. Crossbows really miss the mark when they shoot 2-3 grains per pound and they figuratively long for and love FOC in my opinion for sidewind bucking, forgiving arrow flight and penetration more than any other kind of archery with the short crossbow arrow bolts.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@bishoparchery excellent information. I have never shot a crossbow so didn't have a good answer or the amazing info you just shared.

[@Derrek4Real]

@bishoparchery wow bro u are a master... to be honest u need custom bolt arrows.. and there is actually a sweet spot in the weight. U don't just pile it on my friend...

[@cenccenc946]

good stuff.

[@outdoorsman9384]

I switched too Dr Ashby's minimal maximum penatration recommendation of 650 grains a long time ago when i found his articles in traditional bowhunting magazine many moons ago trying too meet all factors and ever since then its been a game changer. Jason your analogy from wiffle ball to base ball is the difference, i always said what would you rather not be hit by first a Ugo or a bus, obviously i would choose the ugo because maybe i will live, the bis obviously flattened for the dirt nap. I always looked at this study and said it was designed for the traditional bowhunter, but obviously if you took this knowledge into compound world , obviously freight train lethality. And Dr Ashby has many studies on a 40 pound recurves and with a minimal 650 arrow its just devastating. So obviously if we all care for the most lethal, ethical, humane way for us too harvest are beloved whitetail, we need to all consider this study. And the other buetiful thing is it quiets up the bow even more and if your a gap shooter it narrows the gaps and its just one slam dunk wracking arrow. I even like how it gives my bow more max weight. Ok im done i could go on for hours👊

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@outdoorsman9384 agree with every point you said. And I think I still have a printed copy of the ashby studies I bought 25 years ago around here somewhere. Some of the most important arrow information available!

[@toddgammons9400]

Great explanation

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@toddgammons9400 thanks. Glad you enjoyed it

[@brads6304]

Your also a good math and physics teacher. 👍

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@brads6304 glad you enjoyed it

[@shredfreak83]

i'm shooting absolute monsters these days. 720gr for indoor barebow and i like it at around 52#. for a normal hunting recurve i ended up at 670gr (300gr point, 150gr insert) A ktb bow i'd love to test & try in a hunting scenario just for the sake of seeing what would happend. Being able to max out a 34" bow with a 1080gr arrow (300 point & insert) should work pretty well on hogs me thinks. Problem is sourcing components from about 4 countries just to make an arrow. Bishop would be the perfect shaft but my wallet only allows alibow shafts for the time being 🤣. Craziest thing i've seen so far is a 100# apa compound with a monster bishop arrow (1100gr i believe) and that thing was rediculously quiet. Needless to say repair day at the club was basically fix the targets i've been shooting 😅🤣.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Awesome set ups! Love it. And agree Bishop Archery Sure does build some amazing set ups!

[@robsarchery9679]

Thanks.

[@earlfultz8603]

Foc is very important because it keeps the arrow straighter and drives through the animal

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@earlfultz8603 agree

[@Tradman47]

Shooting a 585 grain arrow 28 at 45..My draw is 29 so it's about 47 48 lbs

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@Tradman47 perfect

[@hawknives]

Slow moving heavy goes deep. From my experience, be it slow moving heavy bullets, or slow moving heavy arrows.....they penetrate deep. Christ Bless!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@hawknives agree 100

[@ChrisMueller-hj2ss]

I agree 100 %

[@paulheberling2750]

0:19 🙌

[@SamkoTradBow]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@mattwhite9046]

I tell folks that light arrows on a compound are the equivalent of shooting a 55g .223 bullet from a 30-06. Yes, you can do it (with a sabot). But it's not a hunting setup for big game. It's all speed & no power.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@mattwhite9046 well said

[@bishoparchery]

If I had a nickel or dime for every time a crossbow hunter calls me heart broken 💔 that they shot a little whitetail deer at 50 yards with an over the top deploying expandable and stock crossbow arrows to achieve a couple inches penetration. Very well said as a 70 pound compound so much more energy than my 45 pound hybrid longbow, but at 730 grains my hybrid longbow, even with my wide cut Jumbo 3 Broadheads = passthrough after passthrough after passthrough. Jason hit the nail on the head, it is not bow weight, but arrow weight. 200 pound crossbows at 50-60 yards with super light sub 3 grains per pound crossbow arrow/bolt ⚡ has driven more crossbow hunters to me than any ads etc. crossbow + 1,000 arrow 💘 like night and day as crossbows are about dry fired nowadays. Trad bows, no back bars, no bubble levels, no drop away rests are pretty hard to beat for harvesting big game. Jason puts it best, "not the bow weight but the arrow weight why trad guys get passthroughs after passthroughs far beyond the compound bow outdoor channel celebrities etc.'.

[@ThirdLawPair]

Sometimes I hunt with a crossbow, and I mostly have the opposite problem of so much penetration that I lose my arrows. I like the 2+ inch expandables specifically because they come out the other side a little slower and I can actually find them. Anything smaller than that, and my arrows end up completely buried in the dirt never to be seen again. I do use rear-deploying heads, so perhaps it is issues with the design or with the quality.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Thanks man! And for those reading this is Sean from bishop archery that made this comment. The man that makes a living supplying arrow and bolt combos for people that hunt the most dangerous animals in the world and studies everything about hunting arrows. And makes the most amazing arrow and broadheads ever made. And the strongest most durable shafts and broadheads in existence

[@wk9953]

Shooting 843 and 743 grain arrows out of a 69@30 inch draw

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@wk9953 very nice

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

ppl say us hunters are dumb and uneducated, but here we are doing math to get max arrow flight and penetration lol

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@donwaldroopoutdoors3665 😂😂

[@chickimac1]

I think anything over 500 grains you’re good. Now that’s at 50lbs. Jmo

[@craigarnold323]

Two holes is the goal!!!!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@craigarnold323 agree 100

[@theevansnyder]

F=M×A A=F/M /\P=FT More mass=less acceleration Less acceleration=more time under equivalent force More time=more change in momentum DUH

[@DS-sh5we]

Great Vid, very informative, but how does arrow spine figure into the equation? I know the heavier the arrow, the heavier the spine, but is there an optimal weight/spine correlation?

[@SamkoTradBow]

@DS-sh5we spine is always part of the equation but spine is related to your individual bow weight draw length bow style release etc. Everyone will have to test ro find the best spine for their individual arrow regardless of weight

[@paullewis5045]

Yes, yes and yes. A perfect explanation of why a heavier arrow has more penetration. Also, great that you pulled that together with shot selection and reasonable distances in heavy cover. I really liked the weight forward discussion and examples too.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@paullewis5045 glad you enjoyed it

[@thephoenicianarcher5267]

Brother hope the bee sees this🙂

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@thephoenicianarcher5267 I'm not putting 2 and 2 together on who the bee is.

[@acrescareplus2390]

@@SamkoTradBow Think he's referring to Chris Bee and his lack of penetration on two water buffalos he wounded on his latest hunt.

[@a.j.taylor4401]

​@@SamkoTradBowI believe he is talking about Chris Bee. He is on you tube and is definitely not a fan of heavy arrows lol

[@pathfinder5804]

He is also a champion team USA shooter so I wouldn’t expect him to be on the heavy arrow train. He’s got the ability to shoot quarters out to75yds so he needs to play the game a bit and compromise a bit with his setup. Not saying go heavy just heavier and then learn how to mentally contain himself in the heat of the moment. One easy and the other no good advise on it cuz I’ve had buck fever once in my life and didn’t know what was going on at the time!!!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@acrescareplus2390 thanks guys for the explanation. Don't know who he is. Will have to take a look when I can

[@chadpurciful314]

Mass moves mass

[@KevinMillard68]

i am running 56 lbs with 400 grain arrows and i still still take a moose out at 60 yards so heavy arrows are bull shit unless you have speed to back them up otherwise and FYI i get 240 fps witih 400 grain 56lbs draw and that is 51.17 lbs of energy so yup moose dead deer dead bear dead i think you need to go back to the science room and learn more before talking BS . no offence man but i have even run 527 grain 56 lbs and that is 208 fps so total fpe is 50.64 so its less energy therefore proof that heavey arrows are BS unless you can get the speed up , get a chronograph youll see what happens in real life then

[@SamkoTradBow]

@KevinMillard68 it's been studied and tested on hundreds of the biggest animals in the world by the amazing Dr Ed ashby over the last 30 years. Fps means nothing. Believe it or don't, shoot whatever you want to. But I'm pretty sure I have an idea about this stuff

[@KevinMillard68]

@@SamkoTradBow to each their own but without FPS you have nothing you need speed and weight to get Energy output and that is a fact you can't run from.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@KevinMillard68 kinetic energy is relevant to blunt force objects. Momentum is what matters for arrows. Big difference. Different drag coefficient difference attack methods on entry. Like I said you should read the studies.

[@stephenbrooksby4466]

​@SamkoTradBow I know of lads who recently had a buffalo hunt and the heavier arrows got less penertration then the lighter arrows one lad almost had a complete pass through on one buffalo and they are all trad bows Hence the proof is in the hunt lighter arrows better

[@SamkoTradBow]

@stephenbrooksby4466 should read the ashby natal studies

[@ravenflight88]

45 lb recurve and a 640 gr arrow, my 50 lb compound shooting 670 gr arrows, I stump shoot on average 50 yards to practice,. I have no problems making dead on shots with heavy arrows, with a 50 lb compound and a 670 gr arrow I can make 65 to 70 yard shots easily and accurately, the boneheads are to ignorant to move their pins , also NO arrow platform has a FLAT TRAJECTORY 😂😂 the argument of heavy arrows fall faster is myth light fast arrows drop faster at distance than heavy ones, it's called ballistics and yes arrows are measured the exact same way as bullets are. the twits won't shoot a .223 at an elk at 70 yards but are perfectly happy with a 300 win mag shooting a bullet 5x the weight at that same 70 yards 🤪🤪

[@moneyandtimefreedom3352]

Western shots are on average 50 -70 yards. With range finders, practice, shot selection these shots are absolutely doable with modern archery equipment. Also modern bows transfer more energy effectively than older bows. Lots of charts to show this it’s about math. Same about of foot pounds of energy from a lighter arrow as with a heavier one. A lighter arrow gets there faster, flatter same energy. Trad bows don’t have the same amount of efficiency so a heavier arrow is needed to get the same results of foot pounds of energy down field and why shorter distances are usually taken especially in heavy thicker timber you get back east.

[@Dan-i9u]

Total bullshit!

[@stpaul0859]

as a compound bow hunter I fell in to the "heavy arrow" misinformation trap. For trad bows heavy arrows are 100% necessary and I understand that. But a 450 grain arrow with a compound bow is not the same as a whiffle ball. 450 grain arrow at 270 fps will blow through anything and the math supports it. The trad world is a different animal and I cant speak more on that outside of understanding why weight matters more.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@stpaul0859 maybe right. But I've set up some ultra light compounds for serious hunting and set them up like I would a trad bow. Like my daughter compound that blew Thru the huge Hon I talked about in the video. If I was going to hunt with a compound again I would set it up like this. 60 pound bow, 750 grain arrow, 1 pin set at 20 yards, wide 2 blade head. Nothing anyone ever said could change my mind on that personally.

[@tonyezolt4560]

Not sure what the "heavy arrow" misinformation trap is. Regardless of what you use to propel the arrow, adding weight to the arrow will increase penetration. "IF", however, YOU feel you don't NEED more penetration, then that's another thing and totally up to the individual hunter. What is funny, though, is that anytime this discussion is had, there's always those that "blow" through everything, all the time, in the comments. Apparently, that changes whenever there's a video camera present, because I watch a lot of videos, mostly young, fit guys pulling 70+ lbs and I'll bet fully half don't get pass throughs. I must be picking the wrong ones, lol!!!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@tonyezolt4560 I do agree. I just made a video highlighting the ashby foundation and all the natal studies to put this debate to rest. Video comes out next week. You can not beat physics. Heavy wins.

[@stpaul0859]

@@tonyezolt4560 the misinformation is more about the overblown importance of heavy arrows and the discounting of the importance of speed AND how well a 450 grain arrow over 280 fps actually is. Also, the videos you refer to are anecdotal. I saw a video of a guy with a single bevel 650 grain arrow blow through a doe. Perfect shot. No blood. No dead deer. (She may have ultimately died) but was never found. She didn’t “pile up 30 yards away” like people claim happens when you shoot heavy setups and single bevels. I would rather blow through my target with a 450 grain arrow and a flat trajectory than missing a deer low because I’m shooting a heavy arrow with a significant drop. Go ahead and miss judge a deer by 5 yards

[@stpaul0859]

@@SamkoTradBow Ashby did some great research there is no doubt about that. Physics do not lie. And many arguments can be made in favor of the lighter side as well using math and science. However, if I’m shooting a lighter compound bow or trad then I would 100% value weight and foc over speed.

[@allenr6687]

I been using 390 grain arrow for a long time. Peoples inability to admit fault and tracking skills of a child is a giant reason the light arrow vs heavy arrow is as popular as it is.. people should be learning proper tracking procedures way more then worrying about arrow.. arrow setup should be a individual choice. There are negative arguments for all arrow and broadhead setups.

[@matthewyu3531]

Hi Jason, you said your bow's draw weight was 57 pounds. Is it 57 lbs@28" ? or it's 57 lbs@ your draw length? Please let me know. Thank you.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@matthewyu3531 57@26 my draw length. When custom ordering a bow you can specify what draw length you want and what weight at said draw length

[@matthewyu3531]

@@SamkoTradBow Thank you very much. Your responses are always helpful.

[@earlfultz8603]

For most all compound shooters do is wound deer faster

[@pathfinder5804]

So this is a hot button topic!!! So with my compound I shoot 72# draw @ 28in draw w/an arrow that weighs 446gr and 13% FOC. This is 50gr heavier then the arrow I hunted with for 30yrs and killed 250 animals from deer to black bear and 2 moose. Now on 99% of the animals with that 396gr arrow had complete pass throughs. Now that was with muzzy 3 blades and Rage 2 blade mech. Once I changed bows and started watching KZbin I tried heavy arrows 585gr tuned awesome. Now I could never get used to the gap in pins hence accuracy suffered greatly so next arrow tuned perfect at 446gr heavier yes then old arrow but light compared to most. For me accuracy trumps arrow weight but accuracy is first in my opinion and never had penetration problems with super light arrow so anything more and I’m guessing formula will work. With trad bow I’m shoot 45lbs @ 27in draw and my arrow weighs 536gr. Tunes perfect and punches bullet holes. That is 12gr per pound and with 18% FOC so again think it’s middle of the road. Now it’s my 1st jump into Trad world so we will see what it brings in the woods on an animal. 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼 As usual great video.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@pathfinder5804 interesting to see your how big of a difference between your compound and trad bow set ups for grains per pound.

[@pathfinder5804]

@@SamkoTradBow I think that has to do with how long I’ve shot a compound honestly. Back in the late 80’s through the 90’s it seemed everyone at the bow shop was really into speed. To get speed we all shot over drives and short light arrows. My 1997 compound bow shot my hunting setup which ended up weighing 396grs @ 310fps. Shot that setup for 20yrs and killed a ton of deer. Never heard of arrow weight back then we just went off what the chart said on the arrow box and what flew through paper like a bullet. My setup did that no matter what the broadhead or field tip I put on. Without knowing it I had a bow shooting a dead perfect tune. Hence the reason I know now why I really never had penetration problems and I shot fixed broadheads and took basically only standing broadside shots. I let more animals walk that weren’t perfect shots walk then I care to know. Again without knowing it I was doing stuff that would work for every Bowhunter to have great success all the time. New bow and research at my fingertips on KZbin and after testing I found my happy medium. Like I said still needs to show results on trad bow but even more research went into that so I’m shooting a heavier arrow in part because I shoot low poundage and believe I need it to help with the results. There’s clearly more than one way to skin a cat that’s for sure.

[@SamkoTradBow]

@pathfinder5804 my first compound was a golden eagle with over draw. Crazy how things were back then

[@pathfinder5804]

@@SamkoTradBow ya I know and what’s really funny to me is I never knew a thing about arrow weight I just went with recommended spine off arrow charts and picked a broadhead I wanted to shoot. It took some tuning but honestly wasn’t that bad. A couple hrs and some micro adjustments and bingo bullet holes. I didn’t shoot anything fancy broadhead wise either just a standard Muzzy 3 blade @ 75gr. I thought I was moving way up after guiding for 10yrs in Iowa and seeing what the newer 2 bladed Rages were doing. Shot those for 10yrs and now I’m back to fixed bladed broadheads out of my compound Magnus Black Hornets Ser Razors. Truly like I said I know now my success with my old setups were due to perfect arrow flight and shot choices. With that light arrow I killed 2 moose both full pass throughs and one was at 60yds. Now I know I must have been lucky at some point and got away with something but I know why now and if I’d have known then what I know now I’d have done things a bit different. My trad bow I have 200gr broadheads and 50gr inserts for 250 up front so with my heavier arrow hope it works ok. The way it’s going I won’t be shooting my compound again as the trad bow has me totally hooked!!!! Wish I’d have done this 30yrs ago!!!!!!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@pathfinder5804 can't wait to hear gow this season goes with your traditional bow! You are gonna love it