Trafficking, Prostitution and Inequality: A Public Lecture by Catharine MacKinnon

Catherine MacKinnon, the Elizabeth A. Long Professor of Law, University of Michigan Law School specializes in sex equality issues under international and constitutional law. She pioneered the legal claim for sexual harassment and, with Andrea Dworkin, created ordinances recognizing pornography as a civil rights violation and the Swedish model for addressing prostitution. Representing Bosnian women survivors of Serbian genocidal sexual atrocities, she won Kadic v. Karadzic, whcih first recognized rape as an act of genocide. Her scholarly books include Toward a Feminist Theory of the State (1989), Sex Equality (2001/2007), and Are Women Human? (2006).
In her visiting lecture to University of Chicago Law School students, Professor MacKinnon discussed issues raised in her book Are Women Human?: And Other International Dialogues. Her work exposes the consequences and significance of the systematic maltreatment of women and its systemic condonation by taking us inside the workings of nation-states, where the oppression of women defines community life and distributes power in society and government, and inside the heart of the international law of conflict to ask why the international community can rally against terrorists' violence, but not violence against women.
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[@p.kilian5157]

KZbin algorithm, what are you doing? this genius content is online since 8 years, I so often type in human trafficking, documentaries about it, research, and this is the first time I come across this? that's odd and makes me feel as if youtube brings the wrong content to "trending" ...

[@Empty_Robot]

KZbin hides content like Catharine MacKinnon. There is so much money in the sex trade that the videos in favor are pushed to the top, while content like this is hidden. You have to really know what you're looking for to find info against the exploitation of women.

[@antonkrikov7135]

Its messed up

[@masalaflower]

Catherine MacKinnon has been right for over 30 years. She is an astute, wise, and sharp mentor - and a powerful, beautiful role model for those of us born & raised female. Professor MacKinnon clearly carries on the lineage of the great suffragists and human rights revolutionaries. May she live long and carry on strong, so that her lucid message is carried even farther and wider.

[@Corrosive_Acid]

Amazing lecture! I admire Catharine's passion for human rights and courage to speak against powerful men.

[@justasillybug]

so many sick moids in this comment section but sadly im not surprised

[@coreyyohm]

moids ?? what is that

[@user-cn1wv6kr1g]

​@@coreyyohm males. Dickheads

[@cheryl5667]

This should have millions of views. Mad respect to U of C for giving a platform to the realest.

[@michellestelle]

I can't believe Jordan Peterson is famous when Catharine Mackinnon exists

[@convoluteduniverse5917]

This was my exact thought. i suppose patriarchy is still alive an well. It took me 25 years to find out about Mackinnon and Germaine Greer, conversely I find it hard to NOT have Peterson recommended on my social media feeds.

[@electricfishfan7159]

Primarily because of his early stance against the Canadian pronoun policy… which is an issue that strikes at women harder.

[@iscott3550]

How so?

[@Panamenya]

Is there a transcript of this excellent speech somewhere? I would like to post it to Facebook. This is such a thorough and comprehensive speech; she really covers all the angles, and NOT ONCE does she ever resort to speaking about religion -- because there is no need to. This issue stands on its own as a clear human rights violation, primarily affecting women (around the world). A breath of fresh air, thank you, Catherine MacKinnon.

[@dannowell269]

You really gotta question who the 20% dislike ratio are from

[@brittanyw7546]

My thoughts exactly 😬

[@judesulieman2245]

men

[@kdixuebw7884bfb]

TRAs probs

[@user-iy1ig9kd7d]

misogynistic men

[@dominiknewfolder2196]

@@user-iy1ig9kd7d I'm misogynist. Not because my choice or any ideology/religion (common lie between feminists). I can explain how to raise misogynist who would be able to work as a pimp.

[@p.kilian5157]

who the duck dislikes this?? only very, very, very sick psychopaths can dislike something true and important like this!!

[@user-iy1ig9kd7d]

misogynistic males, they're everywhere.

[@susanw9111]

That would be the men

[@babelbuccia]

Trafficking is ALWAYS BAD!!! END OF STORY! Anything against someone free will is wrong :-(

[@p.kilian5157]

prostitution , sex for sale is always exploitation and always wrong, including the few cases were women and girls say they'd do it by their free will. that's literally the point of this speech.

[@capel7662]

I actually agree, and just to expand on this idea, it raises a question about where is the line between legitimate labor work slavery in general.

[@simi55mega]

​@@p.kilian5157thank you

[@brittanyw7546]

Such an informative lecture. ❤ thank you

[@p.kilian5157]

this woman is a a hero or better, shero! so amazing to have such a person as a rolemodel. love her and her passion. this is what gives me hope for humanity ♥

[@anstjsdlr]

Taking her as a rolemodel? and you believe her passion makes you hope for humanity? danger alert.

[@p.kilian5157]

@@anstjsdlr ? you're a walking danger alert...

[@p.kilian5157]

@@anstjsdlr of course good people being passionate about human rights gives good people who are passionate about this hope! what are you blabbering? what's your passion except trolling? lmao

[@anstjsdlr]

@@p.kilian5157 Human rights you say? more likely woman rights for her. I hope not you think human=woman Lol. She may be a respected researcher. I have little doubt about it. However, taking her kind as a rolemodel is like...well, you know what.

[@p.kilian5157]

@@anstjsdlr you're seriously thinking anyone cares about the bs opinion of a vile, evil zombie like you who writes that half of the world population wouldn't be human in your sick mind because you think girls and women aren't human? well, think again. and what you're doing here is hatespeech, illegal and disgusting.

[@coreyyohm]

This is 12 years old?? by god. i was born quite too late in the legacy of miss Mackinnon!!

[@kapple654]

To the girl in question time saying McKinnon was wrong about indoor prostitution, and that it is so much better and safer because some study in new Zealand said so I would say this= I am an antipodean and New Zealand is disproportionately safer in crime rates in general so that translates through to low abuse rates for indoor solicitors. I would invite her to look at Europe where indoor prostitutes arguably have one of the highest violence rates in the world and more often than not trafficked, slaved, beaten, raped women are kept under lock n key indoors and never let out. In Spain the percentage of sex slave .. usually from eastern Europe or Nigeria (kept indoors except when coerced, drugged or followed by their owners) is 1% of the total Spanish population. Take into account Thailand, Ukraine, Philippines, Brazil and India this is a slavery epidemic the world has never seen.

[@kovex85]

not denying that sex slaves exist but 1% of spanish population?!that's like 500 thousand wtf... any proof ?

[@michellestelle]

I live in New Zealand, and sex workers here are treated like shit. We have the worst rates of violence against women in the OECD.

[@kapple654]

@@michellestelle also I wasn't trying to say bad stuff doesn't happen to prostitutes in NZ - rather I was trying to point out the hypocrisy and inaccuracy of the spoilt american princess who strood up and tried to discredit McKinnon by saying 'indoor prosititution is a haven... look at these wonderful utopian rates of wellness that NZ prostitutes have'

[@chelsea911]

Yeah I was a prostituted woman in NZ for over 20 years, it is constant violence and exploitation, police just turn a blind eye to it because it's decriminalised

[@caramel7050]

@@michellestelle sources please? not doubting you but i'd like some links

[@alfobootidir2474]

Recently witnessed a woman post her husband wants to run a train of 10 men on her despite her disgust. The response? “Poor fella he’s going about his kinks wrong” bc such depravity has been normalized under the term “kink”. Now I’m here

[@Corrosive_Acid]

I hope it's her ex-husband now... Or at least she became a widow xDDD

[@alfobootidir2474]

@@Corrosive_Acid me too

[@coreyyohm]

@@Corrosive_Acidamen

[@123B61tab]

She is spot on with all her arguments.

[@whitewindbluehand]

THE preeminent thinker - and activist - of our time. Wow. Thank you.

[@feeltheillinois]

ok obviously this speech is amazing but so is her hair. im visually and intellectually mesmerized

[@pollysshore2539]

feeltheillinois It's pure evil and insanity, just like her.

[@feeltheillinois]

...are you gonna attempt to refute which statements you disagree with or just make blanket declarations based on nothing?

[@pollysshore2539]

feeltheillinois Based on nothing? I have 40+ years of experience watching this woman in action. She has done everything in her power to violate others rights while spewing absolutely unhinged not nonsense. She is already working hand in hand with the Fundamentalists right again, which she did all through the 1970s & 1980s, while pushing and promoting the Satanic Panic/Ritual Child Sex Abuse Hysteria. A moral panic/witch hunt that destroyed thousands of lives, caused suicides, the destruction of families, lengthy institutionalization of several women and children and the wrongful conviction of many innocent people. Radfems pushed the Recovered Memory Therapy and Incest Survivors Movements.... movements that started the hysteria. Watch a 90s documentary called Frontline's the Search for Satan. You'll see Gloria Steinem acting as a guest of honor for a horrific quack RMT doctor named Bennett Braun. A man known for loading he s female and child patients up on multiple drugs before telling them they were abused by Satanic Cults. Look for articles where Cat declared her belief it in. Look at The Courage to Heal. Watch Frontline's Divided Memories and know Judith Herman wrote Father Daughter Incest and Trauma & Recovery while practicing the same therapy as Braun. 2nd wave Radfems are a deeply disturbed group of hateful whores. None of them had a problem with making money off others destruction.

[@123B61tab]

@@pollysshore2539 you sound absolutely unhinged. The work of 2nd wave radfems will never be forgotten. They paved the way for women to be treated like human beings, to speak up against workplace sexual harassment and discrimination. Love Catharine and all the work she has down for women. Thank you to 2nd wave Radfems!

[@pollysshore2539]

Steel1856 Women, and men have never viewed this in the same light. Many think Radfem’s contributed little to nothing and did a disservice. Even those that could half way agree with McDworkins opinions on topics found her/their legislative attempts grotesque rights violations that did more harm than good. This is the truth. They continue to be expanded in more vague and persecutory ways today. Many young women today have an absurd understanding and definition of rape, assault, harassment, coercion and more thanks to these cunts Personally, I wish the pseudo evangelical/conservative whore was dead in a ditch with her throat cut.... by a woman. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.slate.com/human-interest/2018/10/queer-agenda-radical-feminism-pornography.html www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/305051/ www.cathyyoung.net/bgcolumns/2005/dworkin.html

[@kapple654]

54:15 do you think her friend Martha was pissed when she mentioned her in the audience?

[@beatrixkiddvideo2404]

LEGEND

[@MN-ns1lo]

I’m about a third through. At 27:52, I disagree with this definition of prostitution. “Prostitution is sex for a consideration other than sex.” Any woman worth her salt will ALWAYS make considerations other than sex unless she wants to be saddled with VD and illegitimate kids. Maybe even murdered. Using discernment is a necessity. I’m not sure, but I think Catharine would concede if that was brought up. Saying sex for xy and xx is inherently the same cost and risk and therefore we have no reason to use any more discernment than men (which is the inference of her definition of prostitution) sounds like something a scrote would say.

[@user-mt2co8ip4u]

In an ideal world women would not have to make extra considerations because men would be socialised in such a way that being a scrote would be unthinkable

[@camellight2010]

I would (p. 32); however, the only problem is that I posted that comment 10 months ago, and my temporary disgust at DiwtaMan has now faded (P. 345). KZbin law states that "arguments need to be such that neither party in a KZbin disagreement will accurately defend their point of view on the issue being discussed" (p. 232) and that "third party responders to comments must have compelling quip so as to affect a emotionally charged response by one of the parties in question." (p. 544)

[@davidsonchamps2009]

I'm surprised that you think that

[@SKITTLESANDMNMS]

Your creativity kills me.

[@EmilNoldSinclair]

DiwataMan's point is that MacKinnon cannot help herself to use the concept of 'choice', which 'agency' implies, while at the same time arguing that 'agency' is a vague concept and that others have exploited the ambiguity of the concept of 'agency'. Well, no shit. The free will argument is one of the oldest in philosophy. In any case unless she proposes a definition or account of agency (and by implication 'choice'), then she is also exploiting ambiguities.

[@EmilNoldSinclair]

DiwataMan has an argument and it sounds pretty damning. If he's wrong, you should present an argument to refute it. writing 'you are clueless' and the number of people who upvoted your comment and downvoted DiwataMan's comment only shows how clueless all of you are.

[@davidkennerly]

I have to say it (and despite reservations to comment on her looks) but that is one wicked looking hair-do!

[@mondoleems]

yeah i was thinkin it too

[@federicofernandezdeullivar5294]

💚💜❤

[@herzl67]

To Music Uploaded Dailey: this is not a hair dresser's convention. Valueing women only by how they look is bad for men as well.

[@Old92Gregg]

Dat Elusive, Westernised, Assumed Universalist Benchmark of Equality!

[@FaStFoRwArD191]

...yea...

[@bhuman111]

A first year econ student can identify the problem with trying to heap all the punishment on buyers. Its a well known concept called incidence, and its important to remember, the person that is nominally liable for the crime is not necessarily the person who will experience the burden of the law. Johns who are risk adverse will drop out of the buyer pool or reduce the price they are willing to pay for services. They might demand conditions that better preserve their anonymity from girls. They will stop sharing information. The end result is a market where the remaining clients have more power, are more dangerous or risk preferring, pay lower prices and reveal less information about themselves to escorts.

[@chelsea911]

Under nordic model, johns are criminalized as well as pimps, traffickers, procures. And at the same time the women sold are decriminalised and provided with social services, affordable housing, drug/alcohol rehab if needed, childcare, education/job training, etc. Yes some johns will stop committing the crime that's the point, at the same time many women will be enabled to escape prostitution and build actual careers etc. Sweeden has the highest prices for prostitution in Europe, and with police cracking down on pimps and traffickers more of that will go to the women, enabling them to not have to take so many johns, and also to enforce more boundaries because they are able to call the cops on johns at any time and not be charged themselves as the victims of the crime. In my country New Zealand since decriminalization prices are lower, and the brothels take bigger and bigger cuts, there is a lot of competition because many women are desperate and that causes pressure on everyone to put up with dangerous acts to get the booking. Client information is completely anonymous, there is no way of going to police for help, how you going to prosecute anyone you don't know their name or address or their place of work, and the police just send you away anyway. These guys are decriminalised, and it doesn't matter if they commit additional violence on top of it I've gone to police station after being punched in the head with a concussion for protecting a younger newer girl in the brothel, the man also stole my purse, the police told me to go and look for it in the public bins around the area because thieves will likely take what they want and throw the bag away. They sent me out their doors. And the police are not allowed to come into the brothels, if you call police management will fire you too. Plus you'll be stuck in a limbo between being considered an independent contractor or an employee, the brothel will tell you that you are independent contractor and responsible for your own tax, but you won't have any independent contractor freedoms you will be treated like an employee except without any employee rights or breaks, or anything. The only way to determine is to go to court, no one has ever done it, who would? There's a chance they'll tell you that you owe all this back tax if ruled as independent contractor, we are already poor that's why we have to put up with johns raping us to get money. Pimps and johns have all the power in decrim.

[@ZimbaZumba]

Simplistic and internally consistent arguments. Changing a populations World View, and hence the law, via Hegemony is relatively easy for the powerful. Such changes, unless having a full grasp of the true complexity of Human Condition, will simply revert over time to another steady state consistent with Human Nature. This transition could be painful and the resulting state even worse than before. Theories about Society that fit on the back of envelope worry.me, especially from the sheltered.

[@camellight2010]

@DiwataMan - you are clueless.

[@itsmatt2105]

I agree with most of what she says but instead of a prostitute turning to substances to numb the pain of their activities, I suspect people looking for an easy way to support their habit is a significant portion of "voluntary" prostitutes motivation.

[@bearlytraincot4131]

I would think this depends on the distinction of prostitution as a part of a crime ring or just individual addicts. Because prostitutes are managed. And narcotics can be a part of that management.

[@p.kilian5157]

more men are drug addicted than women or the same amount. but exponentially more women than men are exploited in prostitution. your calculation doesn't add up.

[@brittanyw7546]

You heard the part about the 6 yr old kid right?🙄

[@Rn-pp9et]

It's hard to tell apart the delusion from ideology. I guess critical thinking is no longer a requirement for higher education.

[@MN-ns1lo]

You don’t need none of that fancy book learnin’.

[@cetvies-author-writer]

it is that the core of the problem, people that make you believe for the first part, and have you understand that you have to pretend to uphold this believe of free will and common good, of religion and the nature of being a servant to people proclaiming themselves superior = with a right to destroy others, all others or any others. Inthenameofhumanrights. C om

[@xxxild]

I've been wondering who to personally credit for getting so much of the Swedish Model's ideology on prostitution into policy here in the US. Somehow this is accomplished while simultaneously ignoring the voices of sex workers, sex workers who have managed to organize, the majority being female sex workers--way to show them who's in charge.

[@Corrosive_Acid]

"Sex work" my ass... Have you ever thought why the majority of them is actually female?

[@AngryTenko]

Can we stop trying to shove transwomen in every single female space? Being socialized since birth as a girl - something that transwomen haven't experienced - is part of our identity and experience and shapes who we are. Transwomen don't like female-born women butting into their spaces and being nosy about their transitions and shit, so just leave at least SOME space for our unique experience, will ya? Have some respect.

[@claudiablackhre]

AngryTenko Transwomen never undergo threats and discrimination for just having vagina and they are willing to go throught such things. They think being a woman is penetrated by a penis, which is men’s idea. This prove transwomen are still MEN.

@@claudiablackhre Being a women is not "threats and discrimination for just having vagina".

[@p.kilian5157]

@ ok white "knight" , thx for the mansplaining !!!! to women !!!! what it means to be a woman!!!!!!!!! SMH !!!!!!

[@pestlund]

P. Kilian the excitedly liberal use of exclamation points seems a bit hysterical. So extra.

[@p.kilian5157]

@@pestlund right, extra "hysterical", "extra" for you. and you seem extra petty and pathetic to rile up about someone using "quotes" to make more sure the meaning of their written word is more clear. your life must be extra "interesting" "lol". good that you're "not" projecting "at all", bc that's one interesting topic in psychology. and yes, I put "extra" many "hysterical" "xclamation marks" in for you to show how extra and hysterical I "really" "am""."

[@JCResDoc94]

As for past abuse -who doesnt. Better mental health care for everyone across the broad Ill support. Unrealistic expectation. As for age of maturity for consent - we cant do anything about that. How about IQ? Or independent wealth first? We make a general call, thats all we can do for any contract law. For surgery, marriage, tattoos, liquor. You are talking about magical thinking. How about support & enforceable laws counselor.

[@camellight2010]

it is my strong conviction that obscurity of presentation reflects not profundity but unclarity of thought. There is something subtly authoritarian about prose that is intimidatingly dense. it attempts to ward off criticism with the implicit message "you are not smart enough to make a judgement. Can't we pander to the KZbin masses? Isn't that more fun? Do you have interests outside of academia? do you like fun?

[@th3n3wk1dd]

So does money coerce the corporate slave because they have "choices precluded, options restricted and possibilities denied"... because I couldn't get any other job but Fast Food.. that must make me a slave because the money is my only motivation for working. I am a victim of corporate abuse because I have no other job and if I had other options I definitely would not be working Fast Food.. but I guess we should make working Fast Food since slavery is illegal and I cannot consent to working Fast Food since I have no other options.. What is this lady smoking? Is she saying we can consent to slavery but we cannot consent sexual slavery?

[@th3n3wk1dd]

If she is a feminist and about equality.. how is criminalizing the men but not the women equal? What criminalizing the buyers says that the women in prostitution are as children and cannot choose.. it doesn't matter the choice they make the man is wrong for buying it.. How is that equal.. it sounds like she wants to take away the choice of what a woman does and make that choice not matter. "The woman can do no wrong, and the man can do no right" mentality...

[@mondoleems]

th3n3wk1dd +th3n3wk1dd +th3n3wk1dd She's studied trafficking all over the world. I think that women who are very in control of their own lives and situations are very much the exception to her. She is talking about the majority of women who are "trafficked" in a way that destroys their dignity and takes away their options as a human being. People who spend their lives under unimaginable physical and psychological duress. Also, I was reading some Bertrand Russel and he was talking about the fact that wage earners in general ARE slaves. the fact that you are stuck in a wage earning class for life, barring incredible circumstances, is quite an advantageous situation to the small percentage of people actually in power of changing that. what freedoms do we all actually have? This woman is talking about big problems, and you or I could find a lot of problems with her individual points or statistics...but are you really against her and her cause? Isn't this a serious problem that most of us are on the same side about? The solution is as complex as the problem, but i feel like we have to get going. Terrible things are happening to many people.

[@th3n3wk1dd]

PracticeMakesAwesome Believe it or not... I am pretty close to the industry as I am a recovering john.. so I know what the industry is like intimately. I know what her cause is and it is to stop prostitution.. but what she doesn't realize is stopping prostitution isn't the answer to fixing human trafficking. Like I said.. I am very much against human trafficking. but her crusade she is going on about is completely wrong as she believes that the every woman in the industry is a victim and free from guilt and thinks every john in the industry is guilty of rape and no real consent can actually exist.. And unless you have lived or seen what it is actually like in the industry.. you know that is completely wrong and not even the majority. The reason? The statistics that are being pulled are skewed. And I could go on and on about what is wrong about them and I see what she is trying to do is just (and that I am actually for).. but she is going about it wrong. Now I do not pay for sex any more... as I have found "God" as people would say.. but a long those same lines... I am NOT for people protecting me from myself... Creating laws telling me what I can do or not do with my own body.. I am an adult and I should be able to choose and not the majority of society telling me I am wrong for doing what I am doing.... Society says it's wrong to have sex because most girls are doing it because of circumstances.. but it isn't wrong to work 3 part time jobs and become a commercial slave? that is hypocrisy... I choose not to have sex now.. but that is my choice... I'm not going to judge a woman if she wants to do it... whether she is doing it for her family or not is not my business...

[@lylecosmopolite]

th3n3wk1dd I have read sex workers say that they much prefer sex work than being a secretary or file clerk for $9/hour, being leared at by the men in the office, and worrying about their safety if asked to work overtime. MacKinnon's father was a Minnesota state judge. Hence he was a successful lawyer, and she grew up comfortable upper middle class. She fails to appreciate that economic life for at least 40% of adult Americans is hard and unpleasant. Low pay, bad working conditions, or welfare. Stamping out sex work will not change these hard facts of life. For many of us, all of our life choices are fundamentally shaped by limited education and limited means.

[@th3n3wk1dd]

alnot01 I agree... people seem to think if we get rid of poverty that we will get rid of prostitution... and that is simply not the case.. in fact how does it make a mother's life better closing a door of opportunity of making a viable income for a family if we throw her in jail because she chose to sell something normal people can give a way for free... AND... MacKinnon looks at this in a statutory rape outlook.. it means... a woman cannot choose to have sex, she does not have the ability to choose.. so therefore the man is always the victimizer and the woman always the victimized... Sorry.. that's completely incorrect.

[@uhMuzoki]

can someone take the mic away from Malfoys mom thanks

[@klippklar314]

thanks for the laugh

[@eng5889]

OMFG! i thought the exact same thing XD

[@maxalberts2003]

Who is Malfoy?

[@MrLChurchill]

I think decriminalising the women is discouraging them from thinking about or even denying that they are able to reflect on the consequences of their actions as an example to other women or for the impact of their profession on families. However I am commenting after only having watched 20 mins of the video and have always been an admirer of Ms MacKinnon. It may also be the only safe thing to say if the prostitutes are unionised.

[@trevorloughlin1492]

What would you do about prostitutes on hard drugs? Trying to help them is like trying to rescue a zombie. No amount of pontification from anti sex feminists will change that.

[@Corrosive_Acid]

@@trevorloughlin1492 "anti sex feminists"... what a clown *facepalm*

[@francostars]

Prohibition is the water of Mafia fish and it is better to avoid it where it is possible as the paying sex among adult and consentient people. Moreover, it is better to legalize and tax prostitution.

[@chelsea911]

We dont freely consent, we submit because we need the money. We still suffer all the same physical and mental harms as any other rape victim enduring unwanted sex acts. We have pimps who take the majority of our pay and then charge us ad and shift fees and consumables, many of us go home to abusive boyfriends who prey on vulnerable women and they take the remainder of the money, why should we have to pay tax as well, we have no money already that's why we're here.

[@francostars]

@@chelsea911 Stop with this unlogical definition. A rape could not exist if there is consensuality and even gaining money. This one is so clear and so Sex Workers must pay taxes even if they say that Sex Work is Work.

[@Corrosive_Acid]

@@francostars mansplainer detected. Do you even know what logic is if you can't comprehend simple statements? Sex work is not work, it's a fuckin rape, a crime done to women by men, no money could ever justify this trauma.

[@skyflyer900]

She couldn’t open a water bottle?

[@nikitawalczak582]

she clearly did?

[@lylecosmopolite]

Bordello prostitution, and working freelance out of one's residence, should be legal, but not street walking. Many of the evils of prostitution stem from its being illegal and hence underground. Bordellos should be partnerships owned by the women who work in them. Pimping should be illegal. The age of consent for prostitution should be 21, not 18. All trafficking of human beings for any sexual purpose should be vigorously repressed. Has MacKinnon ever mentioned the fact that there is a fair amount gay male prostitution?

[@p.kilian5157]

bordello? is that supposed to be a cute name for trafficking hot spots? the law The Swedish / Nordic Model is the best. it keeps human trafficking at the lowest rates. in other words, you're a shitty researcher and oblivious to the truth and reality of any brothels. whether in Nevada or Germany where they literally have "flat rate sex" offers....! brothels always have been and always will be human trafficking hot spots, whether you believe the fluffy clouds you're being fed or not. that includes brothels which are lead by women.

[@lylecosmopolite]

@@p.kilian5157 "Bordellos should be partnerships owned by the women who work in them." "The age of consent for prostitution should be 21, not 18."

[@Corrosive_Acid]

Bordello prostitution should consist of men only, that would be fair. They can fuck each other without doing any more harm to women.

[@th3n3wk1dd]

One thing I noticed in this whole report is Nevada is never mentioned or that model ever referred to.. because that would ruing all her reasoning and logical discourse. I really think the does have something though... a combination between the Swedish Model and the Nevada Model would actually be a good thing... Outside of legal prostitution the Swedish Model would take place.. but for the women that actually want to be in the sex industry, can do so by entering in a legal brothel held by Nevada Standards.. This would A) Give great incentive to seeing a legal girl in a cathouse so that would deter them 'accidentally' seeing an underage girl. and B) If a trafficked girl gets caught, the would not be a victim of double victimization... I will have to sit and ponder this more... but it sounds good so far. This lady really needs to take a visit to the Nevada brothels.

[@mondoleems]

I'm pretty sure she knows about the Nevada model...dont you. Maybe she doesn't mention it because it's not the problem she's talking about. You don't think that The existence of the Nevada model makes this issue NOT a HUGE problem do you? Aren't you more WITH catherine mackinnon and what she stands for than against her? even if you disagree with some talking points and statistics...

[@th3n3wk1dd]

PracticeMakesAwesome No actually. She is combining human trafficking statistics with prostitution statistics as if they are one and the same... Prostitution is NOT a "huge problem" as she makes it out to be.. She thinks that a woman has no way to choose to sell herself if she is in "economic poverty".. and using the "You cannot choose to sell yourself if you are poor"... and calls it commercial rape.. when you see someone who is struggling and hates their 3 part time jobs to make ends meet and refuses to call it commercial slavery (hence you cannot choose to work in fast food because of your economic poverty). She thinks the guys that buy sex should be criminals... making Sweden the optimal model giving the woman to choose to sell sex but the purchase illegal.. that is like saying woman (whether they consent or not) cannot choose to have sex because the man is always wrong... And I think that is BS... Now.. what I do agree with her on is the numbers and actual statistics.. but I disagree with how she is reading them.. I am fundamentally against human trafficking.. but I am fundamentally Pro-prostitution. the simple act of sex for sale... not forced sex for sale. Anyone who says that is impossible doesn't know the industry very well.

[@th3n3wk1dd]

Mancheeze Nevada is a good example because everyone (100%) of the girls are of legal age and can leave at any time they want.. no one is forcing them to be there... and that is what decriminalization does.. it gives the option if they so choose to sell themselves without someone like you coming along and saying "What you are doing is wrong!" You see, if the illegal market is "booming".. then they are doing it wrong.. Trafficking is already illegal, how does making prostitution illegal make trafficking more illegal except make it so those that actually WANT to participate in the industry look for illegal ways to do it.

[@NwoDispatcher]

Mancheeze what sort of rocket science do you do for a living?

[@th3n3wk1dd]

Mancheeze You would be surprised on how much research I have done on this subject. It is you that is "dumb as rocks" since you refuse to look at facts. But please.. post any evidence where Nevada has had trafficked victims within their walls... Sorry. You are using morality to press an agenda. No HIV EVER found in the brothels... BBC did a piece on that subject.. and every girl that wants to leave the Brothels can... but please.. a hop skip and a jump over there and interviewing them directly yourself would prove that.. but then.. you aren't interested in facts.. Only thing you are interested in is saying "you are wrong" without putting forth any facts.

[@guada71]

This is like micro managing.

[@p.kilian5157]

who the duck are you?? micromanaging?? your brain and lack of character and morals are the only microbic unmanageable things here!!!!!

[@camellight2010]

easy does it kojack. don't take yourself too seriously

[@rocantenrocanten4150]

животное

[@SydBaron]

Sorry, I was confusing her with Catherine Itzin. She's still talking garbage.

[@Corrosive_Acid]

Your head is full of garbage, mate.

[@FaStFoRwArD191]

well your wrong

[@enzo748]

Does the same go for male prostitutes? Why is this issue being discussed by feminists at all, should it not be a general issue.

[@brittanyw7546]

Considering the fact she covers this in the lecture, I'll have to assume you didn't listen, and just want to criticize. I see it has been 6 yrs since your comment, what steps have you taken to advocate for trafficked or prostituted ppl?

[@trevorloughlin1492]

She makes a lot of sense and presents a powerful and cogent argument. Whilst I would be happy to see all the men in patriarchal societies locked up and sterilised for selling their daughters into sexual slavery, her other anti-pornography arguments, which are not presented in this lecture, are very dangerous to the innocent.

[@p.kilian5157]

you mean dangerous to the huge amount of children who are exploited in CP that is shown on official porn sites and not taken down by the host? u need better research skills. these are huge, known scandals and nothing is done about it by officials to stop it. so what is dangerous to you? pls explain.

[@trevorloughlin1492]

@@p.kilian5157 I have no problem in condemning the production of child pornography. Any suggestion that I do is a cheap shot comparable to the pathetic Incels trolling Catherine in gynecological terms. But one does not have to be a card carrying member of NAMBLA to think that there is something wrong when kids who "sext" are sleeping under bridges due to sex offender residency restrictions, or mothers are left suicidal after having their children snatched for taking an innocent nude photograph. The idea that someone can effectively lose citizenship for simply looking at a picture means that the Dworkin/MacKinnon ordinances can be considered a religious misandrist law comparable to the misogynist hudood ordinances of general Zia-ul Haq in Pakistan! But it gets worse. This poisonous idea that "looking is doing" makes public photography by single males hazardous. I was filming an airshow when a mad woman shouted out that I was there to film the children and rape them. Actually, as the police soon proved, I had been very careful to avoid the taboo objects. She said "Oh, it'll be alright then" and I gave the film critics/lynch mob the lecture I am now giving you. Incidentally, it will NEVER be alright.

[@p.kilian5157]

@@trevorloughlin1492 you're an angry, frustrated man concerned with your rights. what do you think makes decent parents flip like this? all the monsters who are targeting children! not the laws that protect children! you want worse, more loose laws for child protection bc these laws sometimes can make your life uncomfortable! instead of fighting against proper laws, fight for them and against criminals! then over time men will be less suspicious, and only then! you're upset at this mother. be upset about this society, criminal men, the flawed justice system that treats the victims terribly so that 95% of rapists walk free, sick companies like mindgeek who make billions of exploiting children and women and keep the videos with clearly criminal content up, often for years even if reported.

[@p.kilian5157]

@@trevorloughlin1492 and how do you have the audacity to word it as if it's "dangerous" to the "poor innocent men" hanging around children with cameras. if you're truly innocent there's no danger for you as a grown male. you've nothing to fear if you got nothing to hide! unlike innocent children! I'll never!!! understand how men can always be so self-absorbed to want to sacrifice even children's rights just because it could cause inconvenience to you! very suspicious, but extremely egocentric at least.

[@Corrosive_Acid]

Pornography is a documented and cruel act of rape; I would have been worried to be around a man who loves porn.

[@cetvies-author-writer]

ok we legalise and you stay in the chambers

[@RocketeerAndRoll]

Prostitution should be legal because it is a religious based law. I don't share your Christian values. Enough of your Bible nonsense invading people's private sex lives. The distinction between forced child prostitution and adult prostitution with consent is wide. They are totally different realms.

[@thekalenichannel1812]

Lmao the funny thing is she isn't religious at all. It's not a religious law, it's a law for human rights. The industry abuses many

[@Corrosive_Acid]

If you like to suck dicks for money please keep doing it dude, but don't you dare to push it towards other people.

[@davidsonchamps2009]

here's one of her quotes: "all sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman."

[@emma13254]

www.snopes.com/quotes/mackinnon.asp

[@hotpocket517]

This quote is false. She did not say that, and your attempt to discredit her is sad and ridiculous.

[@thisisashan]

The fact that anyone would give a nut like Catharine MacKinnon a public forum for which to speak, is absolutely disgusting. Anyone that advocates the genocide of a gender, race, or any other form of discrimination should be put in a jail where no one gets to hear their hateful viewpoints ever again.

[@francostars]

Why not in the public places, without being a danger? Stop with this "Prostitution-Phobia", please!

[@Corrosive_Acid]

clown

[@francostars]

@@Corrosive_Acid Who is the clown? Only who is suffering of whorephobia could be a clown.

[@lizziesleezy]

I feel like Kitty McKinnon like I do about Madonna - you blazed a trail for women and at some point stopped being relevant. For your own sake and the sake of other women, please retire or do something else. You are no longer blazing a trail, just trying to keep yourself relevant at the expense of others you know nothing about anymore.

[@Corrosive_Acid]

I guess you've lost all of your brains while walking along this trail.

[@emmahribar]

Prostitution is now legal in New Zealand and our women are better off than before when it was illegal. They are much better paid and protected and sexually safe. But it was only made legal fairly recently so who knows.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Emma Ferguson oh goodness. Another delusional person. Take a look at the Elly Arrow channel and learn something.

[@emmahribar]

ASMRyouVEGANyet? I am not delusional. (Maybe just a bit) women are better off then they were. However prostitution still oppresses women.

[@Eternalux]

Trafficking has gotten worse since it's been legalized in New Zealand too. This happens in every country that has legalized it

[@emmahribar]

Eternalux oh wow. I didn't know that. That's awful. I don't condone legalizing anything that hurts people. But I honestly thought that it was a better move for the prostitutes even though I know for a fact that the police would never arrest the prostitutes on cross st on the past anyway. It almost like a battle that you can't win. Do you live here in nz?

[@noreenhappel614]

Legalizing it, is just an attempt to normalise it as legitimate work, so , no these women are certainly not better off. The men who use them are - its now legal to rape them! Some girls are as young as 14 or 15.

[@chookin1]

Oh my goodness I thought this woman was a witch from the start. Did they get the least masculine most politically correct sycophant they could find as MC? What was the vetting process to find this guy and did McKinnons handlers screen him first? This woman has serious problems, there is no doubt about that.

[@Corrosive_Acid]

That's you who has serious problems, obviously.

[@weewilly2007]

The thoroughly deceptive first 10 minutes that suggested a very precisely descriptive, dispassionate, categorical approach was to be taken, was quickly abandoned like so much superfluous clothing, to reveal not just dishonesty (in such a misleading approach) but a biased, self serving view, which it would be safe to assume is driven by ulterior motives. Prostitution is not harmless, nor is entirely harmful, Certainly not as harmful as manipulation and exploitation performed on any level of society. Be it by withholding information, or stacking and presenting "facts" in a preconceived manner, chances are to forward some larger agenda. How is lack of education or employment opportunity being addressed here? Or the consequences of a growing work force without an equal customer base. Especially when being competitive calls for increased automation and thus reduced manual labor at the end of the day? How does globalization and large multinational chains taking over local equity and entire labor markets factor in? Especially when this calls for shifts in everything from food consumption (and thus ultimately food production) to lifestyle practices of entire communities? The largely untraceable, primarily cash-based sector that prostitution is, surely has all sorts of consequences to society. Including generating new capital that allows for some social mobility for new players to emerge in newer marketplaces, rather than old wealth growing itself even further (arriving from older more built up marketplaces). With all this, surely having consequences on even fertility and growth of populations at the end of the day. Is this the picture you have helped to illuminate with your law books and your dictionaries? No right.

[@dominiknewfolder2196]

Im disappointed. No mention about child abuse by mothers as cause of men seeking for prostitute. Just shaming and blaming of men for all evil. No surprise. Caring about men seems to be humiliating for women. Why I should care about women victimized by men when opposite isn't true? I knew many clients of prostitutes and all of them has been abused by mother which believed in being victim (Including their child as abuser). For me most disturbing form of abuse is alienation of father from child and using him as a threat. It's a little bit disturbing how in line it's with main feminism where men (father) is painted as abuser and useless in raising up child. It's easy to guess where men learn to see other people as thing to control and abuse power. You need only to look beyond point if your nose. Disgusting I told my daughter to be aware of women who don't care about men wellbeing and are looking for reason to justify hate towards them. Shortly speaking "feminists".

[@Corrosive_Acid]

Not everything in the world revolves around men. Cry about it and f*ck off from your daughter.

[@sweetpadre]

Adams Family looking feminist.

[@idamay4590]

classic ad hominem when you are too intellectually weak to respond.....

[@RookhKshatriya]

Sexual morality from 17th century New England, no less. How revolutionary...

[@chelsea911]

Sexual morality meaning don't rape people. Yeah that's a good part of sexual morality. Actual sexual immorality is rape, pedophilia, abuse. This isn't about repressive religious notions like no pre-marital sex or no homosexuality, it's about not causing inexcusable harm to fellow humans.

[@Corrosive_Acid]

Man moment ☕

[@rosannaberckley5515]

Yet she thinks men can become women... Can't take her seriously tbh

[@MN-ns1lo]

If that were what she thought, she’d call them women instead of transgenders.