Scott RANSOM FOUR BAR LINKAGE Suspension REVIEW

[@lowflyingdonut]

Dude this is amazing, I've been trying to get my head around these concepts for a while and this is maybe the best explanation I've seen. The animations are great. Thanks!

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks. It took a lot of work both in research to better understand the concepts enough to put this together, as well as in editing time :) Glad you like it.

[@ljubobike]

If I understand coerctly, than my haibike allmtn 3.0 is 4 bar rear suspension system? Thanks for video

[@TheJofrica]

This should be an entire course at a university. I'd totally enroll in such a class.

[@TrailPOV]

MTB-U 😄

[@TheJofrica]

@@TrailPOV Imagine the sports events! Just all mtb events lol

[@TrailPOV]

@@TheJofrica Might have to diversify into bmx-cross and dirt jumping

[@TheJofrica]

@@TrailPOV Yup 👍 Cool stuff, wishing you a great 2021 year!

[@TrailPOV]

@@TheJofrica Thanks you too. Gotta be better than 2020!

[@pieterdorrestein9286]

I subscribed due to this video. Looking forward to see other suspensions explained. Nice job and thanks.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much. You'll have to stay tuned for the next bike which is still gonna take a few weeks to complete the animation and analysis 🙂

[@userbarny6271]

Never seen a better Video for explain the topic Thanks great work

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much!

[@007artimus]

Great explanations, love the way you illustrate and synchronize the kinematics with the plots. Excellent job.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks!

[@Roaming1001]

Kinematics of the machine, one of the subjects in mechanical engineering. Love the illustration and diagrams!

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much. I'm a Mechatronics engineer myself, so it seemed a good fit to merge engineering with art :)

[@wesleyabbott]

No favorite suspension design yet, will be getting a new full suspension in the spring. This video has good timing for me, gives me a start to understanding the basics of suspension design. Style was good for me, I enjoyed the pace, and just the right amount of information, not too technical, not too little. Thanks for this video, and all your other great videos.

[@TrailPOV]

All the best on your hunt for your new bike. Exciting!

[@liquidSpin]

Damn this guy knows his shit! 👍🏻 Love the charts and line animations too. Great work!

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much!!

[@yu-i7476]

what application did you use to illustrate plsss reply plsss

[@CodyWBrown]

Superb! I'll look forward to a similar analysis on the VPP!

[@TrailPOV]

Interesting you mention that as I am already in the process of putting one together for that exact design

[@lennyfellmeth7892]

@@TrailPOV im want that too. Lookinh forward man

[@travelthenarrowtrail8660]

Yeah, the lower link Santa Cruz VPP is the best version out right now. Intense, DIamondback and others using vpp now are not doing a lower link design. The new VPP climbs really really good. It has nice mid support, where the old vpp did not and blew through the travel. THe descending on it is such a joy as it is so plush. I did a review on the Tallboy, Hightower and Megatower on my channel if you are interested.

[@nathanwforrest]

Thank you very much for these videos; Just when I think I really understand these concepts, I learn something new.

[@TrailPOV]

Awesome to hear

[@clydesdalemountainbiking7393]

Well put together. Great explanation and pace. I do tend to like 4 bar Horst linkage. Enjoying your vids :)

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much!

[@RyuMoto]

Another great suspension video! I hope you do one on the DW Link, Switch Infinity, and CBF. Finally, you've helped me understand on a different level. Thank you!

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much. Another one is coming out this week.

[@jonathankang6142]

Just like being back in school! Kidding. Great explanation, really appreciated the use of animations on the graphs 👍🏻

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much!

[@ISMarco]

This is extremely well explained! The visuals are excellent.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much!

[@Singletrack_Mind]

I love these videos. I would love to see one on the 2021 and newer Specialized Stumpjumper EVO

[@TrailPOV]

I've got a look at the 2022 Stumpjumper over on my Patreon page #shamelessplug

[@FrenchieYang12]

4 bar mechanism and point P acting on the welded binary link. The welded zone acts as a crank to generate its movement. Would be awesome to Analyze the graphs using position analysis

[@theaverageenthusiast4812]

Excellent video! Definitely taking a look at the other suspension explanation videos! Suscribed.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much! Glad you liked it.

[@steveflor9942]

Just superb. Thanks, Scott

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much.

[@christiangrantopenabunane6153]

Sir thank you for such good explanation now I have decided what suspension system should I choose on my dream bike build. Your videos about comparing different suspension systems helped me a lot.

[@TrailPOV]

Awesome! What did you go with?

[@Jump-n-smash]

Hardtail

[@hoey2323]

Really enjoying these suspension analysis videos.

[@TrailPOV]

👍

[@davidsouza9436]

Thanks a lot for explaining it so well! Could you also male a quick video explaining suspension on hardtails? That would be great?

[@TrailPOV]

You're welcome. 0mm of travel is fairly easy to analyze: 100% stiffness and 100% efficiency with no brake jack

[@WesMacaulay]

Subbed. Amazing video. Well done sir!

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much!

[@TrailPOV]

What is your favorite suspension design, and what do you think of this video style?

[@travelthenarrowtrail8660]

Right now my top three are 1. DW Link, 2. CBF Suspension, 3. VPP lower link. DW link pedals the best uphill and is found on Pivot, Ibis, Turner, Evil, etc. CBF is found on Canefield and Revel bikes. VPP is found on Santa Cruz, Intense and now Diamond back is using it, but only Santa Cruz does the lower link design. I've never had luck with the horst link (4 bar), the seem to pedal bob too much when climbing and blow the through the suspension too quickly. But I have not been on a new design of it.

[@TrailPOV]

@@travelthenarrowtrail8660 I've never tried the CBF but heard good things

[@travelthenarrowtrail8660]

@@TrailPOV I'm going to post a video in a few weeks of my Revel Rascal review with CBF suspension. I would say its a cross between DW link and VPP.

[@m1muiz]

Awesome videos! Kinda curious about the Naild Suspension system on Polygon bikes, especially the Xquarone EX9.. Maybe the next video? 😁

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the compliment and suggestion

[@musicandbikes6689]

Thanks for making a great video. I particularly liked the graphs explaining the elements that make up suspension feel as this had been a bit of a black box for me until now. I would be interested in seeing how different shocks would alter the curve and how the ramp control lever affects the stroke.

[@TrailPOV]

Glad you liked it and thanks for the input.

[@junjunmulleda5467]

Great suspension break down. It would e great of you do one for linkage suspension bikes. ie Trust, Structure SCW1 etc. Keep up the good work.

[@TrailPOV]

I've chatted with a couple of them and it's likely I'll put out something in the future

[@waynephilbert]

Great videos. Can you do Trek and their ABP system, with or without full floater?

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much. ABP is already in the queue.

[@JuLian-cq2qv]

Can you analyse the new Propain Tyee 29"? I'd llike to see how the gears inflluence pedal kickback per gear. I still have a hard time to figure this out and you're doing an amazingly comprehensive analysis. Also, do you know a way to calculate sag when you've got the leverage ratio diagramm and the sag information on the shock?

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the suggestion. Sag has more to do with home much travel you want left on your suspension as well as anti-squat. Many designers choose their anti-squat curves to be ideal for climbing in a particular gear at a particular sag spot. 25% is a good starting point, but it very much depends on personal preference after that.

[@TheKasperlkopf]

great video. i cant quite decide between the ransom and the propain tyee. reviewers say that the rear suspension system on the propain is insanely good - could you do a video on the tyee please?

[@TrailPOV]

I've looked at the Tyee over on patreon if you're interested #shamelessplug

[@westwater73]

My Focus super bud has the same style setup it's a 2010 model. Good for fast trail.

[@TrailPOV]

Nice 👍

[@scott5919]

Super helpful information in understanding the horst link. How about taking a look at the other type like the Fezzari Delano Peak four bar linkage where the shock linkage swings from above? This bike gets great reviews.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the suggestion. Haven't looked at a Fezzari yet due to level of interest by my viewers so far...perhaps sometime in the distant future

[@stephanbeyer4256]

Could you do a comparison between 2018 YT Jeffsy and 2020 YT Jeffsy? Great to see suspension explained to help bike choice. Keep up the great analysis vids.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the input

[@devonkripaitis4490]

Please make a video about the suspension on the 2018 Scott gambler

[@hanszimmermann4531]

Love your videos you describe it soo good

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks!

[@cqRobinson]

Near the start of the video you show a spider/radar chart for MTB suspension. Have or anyone put together a set of spider charts for all the different designs (single pivot, horst, 4-link, etc)?

[@TrailPOV]

Happy New Year. I have not mostly because each implementation of each design can vary quite a lot. My Patreon page has a lot more bikes reviewed to provide you some of the pros cons

[@jamienevill8966]

Have you had anyone asking for your analisis of the Norco Sight? It's quite similar to this platform (to the untrained). Love the vids. Sad to see we haven't seen in a while. Cheers

[@jamienevill8966]

I bought a 2020 Norco Sight c3 with an EXT storia on it. I'm wondering seeing it normally comes with an air shock and no stock options come with a coil if this is a good upgrade or not. Also I haven't ridden it with an air shock so I don't know what the difference would be. Interested to hear your thoughts.

[@TrailPOV]

I have taken a look at it over on www.patreon.com/trailpov if you'd like to join me over there #shamelessplug

[@wavryder6ft]

This is amazing. Can you do a video on Mondraker Zero Suspension, please??

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the compliment and suggestion

[@bitzracing]

With progressive suspension, it would be interesting to understand when a bottom out would occur. Perhaps doing an analysis on a drop-to-flat, and determining how high a given bike, with rider it would take to bottom out. With higher pressures in the shocks, does rider weight reduce this height? Would be interesting to see how short travel bikes like Tallboy, Norco Optic/Fluid fair.

[@TrailPOV]

This analysis would be a lot more involved than what one might expect as it will depend on things such as how much the rider bends his legs during compression to slow the descent as well as the force provided by the high-speed compression damping circuit....which is shock dependant

[@StructureCycleworks]

At Structure Cycleworks we're really enjoying your videos and would love to see your analysis of the Structure SCW1. Koodos for the great explanations and graphics!

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much for the compliment and glad you're enjoying the videos. I actually ended up speaking with JunJun at the BC Bike Show about this exact topic. In light of the current world events I haven't proceeded with setting anything up for obvious reasons. Hope we can connect in the future.

[@StructureCycleworks]

Fantastic to hear that you met JunJun, and we look forward to better times soon. In the meantime, feel free to model the SCW1 and ask anything you like about its geometry and kinematics.

[@paljohansen]

Very good video! Please do a comparison between yeti sb130 and the 2020 Trek fuel ex🙏

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the input!

[@kergo12]

Subscribed! Extremely informative content. I have been re watching the series to understand each suspension design better. If i could suggest a review of trek's abp as i have one currently (remedy) and a review of norco's design as i am interested in getting either the new sight or optic. Thanks!

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the input. Glad you like them.

[@alfredmadere9030]

Please please please do an analysis of the trek full floater found on the remedy up until 2019. It’s very interesting.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the suggestion. It is interesting that they got rid of it in the latest models.

[@alfredmadere9030]

@@TrailPOV I heared that they did away with it because they thought that shock technology has risen to a point that the full floater mechanical advantage is no longer as much of a benefit as the weight reduction from the new design. I've ridden the new models however and I still prefer the full floater, especially going downhill.

[@TrailPOV]

@@alfredmadere9030 That's what I heard as well when I was last talking with a Trek factory rep

[@chrishamilton689]

Hey Trail POV great video. I'm interested in your thoughts on whether the scott ransoms suspension design would be suitable for a coil shock?

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks. Given the progressive nature of the leverage ratio throughout the travel I'd say it'd be doable. I'm pretty sure the owner of my LBS ended up doing that to his Ransom.

[@ewsbtg273]

I really-really enjoyed your suspension analysis videos! Thank you. Can you do analysis on Polygon Siskiu N9 27.5 for the next video?

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much. I currently run a poll on Patreon to help decide on next bike and the Enduro is up next.

[@ewsbtg273]

@@TrailPOV next video post maybe? Haha

[@michaelcafaro4022]

I know it’s a four bar design I always thought this was a Horst link because the rear pivot point is on the chain stay. A Kona is a four bar design because the rear pivot is on the seat stay basically a fancy single pivot.

[@TrailPOV]

Single pivot does not equal four-bar so the Kona you described would not be a four-bar. A four-bar linkage is a Horst link.

[@michaelcafaro4022]

@@TrailPOV A true Horst link has a pivot point on the chain stay not seat stay. By putting the pivot on the seat stay you avoid all patent infringements . Kona does have a four bar design but it’s a glorified single pivot . If the pivot point is on the chain stay then it’s a true Horst link. Manufacturers did not want to pay Horst leitner the designer of the Horst link patent fees so by putting the pivot point on the seat stay you are exempt. The patent expired a few years back and you saw this re-emerge of the Horst link by companies like transition , canyon, yet, etc.

[@TrailPOV]

@@michaelcafaro4022 Agreed. However, Kona's is not a four bar but instead a faux-bar as it's only a single pivot. The faux-bar design such as Kona only affects the leverage ratio of the shock, but NOT the anti-squat or anti-rise characteristics.

[@eltorito1011]

Could you please do a video on the Jamis 3VO suspension? Just subscribed for these videos, great info!

[@TrailPOV]

Just posted on Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/54358590

[@taneliharkonen2463]

Could you do like a from bottom up style explanation of these concepts? For example for the anti squat/rise to be explained first on the simplest of linkages, explaining what 100% anti-rise means and geometrically making sense of it. And after that moving the concepts to a more complicated linkage. Cause I kind of am trying to do it in my head while watching this, but realizing that it would need someone to show it who knows their stuff. For example I think I got the idea of the anti-rise on a simple straight pivot in my mind, that the 100% point is equivalent of a dead horisontal rear wheel single pivot swing arm, that when rear braking due to the position of the lever does not extend nor compress the shock. And that this concept gets more difficult when the pivot starts moving due to the multiple links. I would love to understand these concepts more concretely on simple non biking related swing arm with spring type of contraptions and then move this knowledge to real linkages and how they become weird in them and how this line drawing is mandatory to understand their function. I literally pressed left arrow key 500 times on this video.

[@TrailPOV]

Hi Taneli. Thanks for the input. Might I suggest you take a look at this article to try and address some of your questions: www.pinkbike.com/news/definitions-what-is-anti-squat.html

[@taneliharkonen2463]

@@TrailPOV Oh cool! Thanks! 💪 I'll take a look! 😊 Solid content man! 💪

[@taneliharkonen2463]

@@TrailPOV Whoa that is extensive 🤯😅💪

[@TrailPOV]

@@taneliharkonen2463 You bet!

[@devonkripaitis4490]

Holy crap these videos are amazing

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much!

[@andreamayer9536]

Great job!!! Thanks

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much!

[@dit4963]

Cool analysis! I've always considered such analysis a good defense against misleading marketing.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks!

[@barrakingbeatz7794]

The Ransom bobs like a champion

[@TrailPOV]

Haha. That's why there's the lockout switch :)

[@laszloraffai8755]

I am wondering what is the main difference in terms of anti-rise, anti-squat/pedal-bob, small- bump compliance and of-course; pedaling-efficiency in case of CUBE STEREO 120 29 (2020) and GIANT TRANCE 29 (2020)? CUBE has a pivot behind the bottom bracket and another in front of rear axle while GIANT has two pivot right behind and in front of bottom bracket.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[@ronsotto]

Awesome video! Would swapping the air shock with a coil shock with progressive springs improve the bike? I wasn't sure if the progressive spring was needed because of the bottom out of prevention?

[@TrailPOV]

A coil shock with a progressive spring will improve the small bump compliance and overall suppleness, but also add a bit of weight and allow less fine tuning of the suspension depending on the day

[@dawnpoint]

What are the odds you can analyze the latest Norco Sight? It seems like Norco have done similar to Canfield/Revel and kept the axle and instant center aligned over the top of the chainring, but with a 4-bar setup. I’d be very interested to know how that compares to CBF.

[@TrailPOV]

With enough support from the community it's certainly a possibility. Thanks for the input!

[@307.William]

Can you analyze some new bikes such as the 2021 transition patrol which is similar but with a mixed wheel size

[@TrailPOV]

If you head over the patreon you will find some stats on the 27.5 Patron #shamelessplug

[@saksittichompoo3583]

Thanks for the great work. Here I have a few questions if you don't mind to elaborate. I just wonder about the rear suspension travel. How did you measure it? and in what respect to? My current hypothesis is that rear suspension travel is measured in respect to vertical axis of the rear wheel axle. As wheel path is not linear and not exactly arc. About leverage ratio, did you use linear travel (vertical) of rear wheel in respect to linear travel of rear shock? Or actual path (non-linear) for both rear wheel axis path is used? Lastly, about the rider's CG, what are considerations about where to place CG as you did in the video? Thank you very much.

[@TrailPOV]

All really good questions. I use the manufacturer CAD data to plot the wheel movement based on pivot locations and dimensions given. I measure the wheel travel and leverage ratio based on arc length covered rather than just vertical. The CG is an interesting point to choose, I ended up selecting the height based it on an article published by Cannondale as well as comparing it to heights used by Linkage for instance. As there is a lot of movement of the rider, while going downhill especially, it's hard to have a perfect height above the bottom bracket, but I've standardized on the same height for all my analyses that falls in line with industry acceptable heights.

[@saksittichompoo3583]

@@TrailPOV Thanks again. Very clear answer. I will keep researching on that Cannondale article. Keep up great work.

[@GR.6102]

Excellent explaination!

[@TrailPOV]

Glad it was helpful!

[@mattchay84]

Great informative video! 👍

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much

[@zsherm2]

I love learning about this stuff! Are there any more resources that I can access to learn more? I'm a Mechanical Engineering student and want to get more involved with the MTB industry.

[@TrailPOV]

Whole lotta googling :)

[@jaworq]

I have alloy Silver Scott Ransom 920 2020 and I like it very much. It descends like a satan. I overtake other riders and they are shocked that I was able to catch up with them xD this bike accelerates so well in a rough terrain. Amazing srsly. I ride enduro and DH tracks on it and I didnt feel yet that I need a DH bike ^^ and all this happening on a 2.6 inch tires front and rear xD insane. 0.9 bar of air front and rear and you're goot to go ^^ + This bike has something awesome that almost no other enduro bike has - TWINLOC system! Its the best thing that you could ever have in a enduro bike! Not sure why they dont mount it in all other enduro bikes.

[@TrailPOV]

Awesome!!

[@simonchaddock3694]

Its on my genius aswell cool feature

[@md.moinulislam9467]

Very good analysis video....

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks!

[@johnmontiel2654]

Anyway you can do a review on the intense 951 trail and xc mtbs

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the suggestion. I do have a bunch of Trail/XC bikes over on Patreon if you're interested. #shamelessplug

[@jasonwilliamspf]

Please can you do this type of analysis on the 2019/2020 Canyon Lux bike (100mm travel front & rear)

[@TrailPOV]

So far I've been focusing on all-mountain bikes, but with enough interest I could start looking at XC. Thanks for the suggestion.

[@quentinderbier3742]

Awesome content, very clear and precise ! How to you define the height of the COG ? Do you take a default value or do you adjust it for each of your bike analyzes ? BTW it could be awesome to see the Rockrider AM 500 S going under your expertise :)) Thx !

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the suggestion. For each bike I use the exact same COG for consistency.

[@peglor]

Very nice videos - what software are you using to do the calculations? Also, how did you get the dimensions of the suspension links? Short of dismantling the bike and measuring it yourself or getting a CAD model from the manufacturer there's no good way I can think of off the top of my head to get the dimensions accurately enough to have confidence in the results. You also mention that single pivot frames have a linear shock actuation ratio, which can easily be shown to be incorrect when you consider a setup where the shock goes from being almost lined up with the suspension pivot to being at 90 degrees to it as the swingarm moves. Plenty of single pivot bikes make good use of this, but there's not a lot they can do about brake jack and chain growth. I'd like to see a work up of the GT I-drive or Mongoose's older suspension frames, both of which use what is effectively a high single pivot suspension setup, which is brilliant on square edged bumps because there's loads of backward axle path, but by putting the BB on another link that moves back as the rear axle moves back, they can reduce chain growth, keeping pedal kickback very low for a setup with so much rearward axle path, as well as stopping the chain from locking the suspension up on acceleration. Also interesting that further back in the same lineage, the GT RTS is a classic bike that was designed specifically to lock the suspension under chain tension on order to convince hardtail riders to move to full suspension in the 1990s, when suspension forks were still a new idea, not to mind full suspension bikes. This has a pivot about half way up the seat tube and a custom pull shock (Which I'm missing :'-( ) that passes through the seat tube and absolutely massive chain growth over the 50 or 60 mm travel. I have most of a frame in my garage if you want dimensions to see how things were done nearly 30 years ago. It's also an unusual design as it uses a steel flexing rear triangle to avoid the need for a suspension pivot near the rear axle, but attached to an aluminium main frame.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the feedback. I use CAD software and a custom spreadsheet to calculate the various parameters. As for the dimensions I use the 2D CAD data supplied by most manufacturers in their product manuals...I find side bike photos have too many problems with angle/fish-eye effects so I stay away from these. It's possible my measurements aren't perfect, but for the purposes of the calculations a couple of mm's isn't going to suddenly cause anti-squat to go from 100 to 50....maybe 98. As for the linear ratio, this was shown specifically for a bike such as an Orange which has a shock in-line with the swingarm connector movement....as many had mentioned about the Orange in previous videos. You are correct that this linear line can be progressive or regressive if the shock is mounted at a weird angle to the swingarm.

[@richardshumate3712]

If you find time I sure like to know a little bit more about the 2005 Cannondale prophet it has an unusual swingarm

[@airlanggagilang]

Super! Deep dive into math of the bike suspension system. Anyway, do you think NS Bike Define 150 has the same suspension system setup which results in the same feel as in Ransom?

[@TrailPOV]

While both have a 4-bar linkage suspension design, they do have slightly different pivot location so riding charactertics won't be identical

[@airlanggagilang]

@@TrailPOV Thanks a lot! Maybe in the near future, it will be helpful if you could also review NS Bike Define 150 suspension system or alternatively Propain Tyee. I am currently considering buying those bikes. Cheers!

[@the510wagon]

Great vid!

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks!

[@climbingprophet]

Hello just found these suspension videos! Great work! I would be really interested in seeing you do a video on the 2020 Enduro. And how it compares to some of the other bikes you've already done. Thank you!

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you like it.

[@lucafrica74]

Very interesting, thanks. Compare this bike to Yeti sb 150 which is best and why?

[@TrailPOV]

Yeti SB150 has less travel but will climb better naturally (although the Ransom has the twinloc which makes it a hardtail if you want it to be). Depends on if you're looking looking for a bigger travel bike.

[@pmpxxdddy]

Any chance you can throw up a vid on Eminents active float suspension. My Onset LT pro is insanely supple and buttery smooth in the most intense situations compared to the other two single pivots I have. Or perhaps it’s the DPX2 shock that’s so good on the Onset?🤷🏻‍♂️🤔

[@TrailPOV]

Never even heard of that bike. Thanks for the heads up 👍

[@Winchuff]

Kickback is not dependent on pedal position (level or otherwise), but IS dependent on whether the chain is in tension. Therefore, when freewheeling downhill there can be no legal kickback.

[@TrailPOV]

Agreed partially as it really depends on where/how many engagement points the hub has when heading downhill

[@florisreybrouck9460]

I like this video, but I wonder how you determine the position of the Center of Gravity? This mainly depends on the mass of the rider and his position. Both of which are variables and they influence the rest of the suspension analysis. So are there some design rules or assumtions u use?

[@TrailPOV]

I have based my height partly on another popular program called Linkage and party on a couple articles I read one in particular by Cannondale. It is based on a person sitting and riding and doesn't factor in moving forward or backward. But as long as I'm consistent the results should be comparable. Happy trails!

[@ankitarora7]

This is the same system used in the new YT izzo?? Does the upside-down shock make a difference in bike performance? PLease also do Orbea Occam.

[@TrailPOV]

Yup same system as the Izzo as far as I can see except the linkage lengths are slightly different. The upsidedown shock might have minor difference in terms of oil flow and seal lubrication, but no changes to leverage ratio.

[@ankitarora7]

@@TrailPOV thanks for the reply, great work in the analysis. Would love to see an in-depth analysis of the Norco optic. :)

[@TrailPOV]

@@ankitarora7 Thanks for the suggestion

[@JClark2600]

You mention flip chips during the section on leverage ratio. My bikes chips are marked High and Low, are they referring to the end of the wheel travel progressiveness? Low being more progressive and high being less progressive?

[@TrailPOV]

In general no. Generally the flip chips are designed to lower to BB to make it more stable at speed, or raise the BB and steepen various angles to make it easier to climb. There are several mfg who have their flip chips change the progressive of the shock but it's very dependant on the model.

[@JClark2600]

Thanks! The manufacture has the simple instruction manual, part of which in the brake section shows how to care for rim brakes! haha The rest have to deal with torque specs for different bolts and a suspension guide mostly dealing with default rider weights, which in the case of Fox Factory 36 & Float X2 I can already get off Fox. I contacted the website to see if they could give me some better manuals.

[@TrailPOV]

@@JClark2600 Hmm that's unfortunate they don't give more info.

[@strategicvizual]

Please review the Vitus Escarpe VR. Thanks.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for your input

[@kutlay1988]

Is there a noticeable difference between 4-link design and virtual 4-link design (like in YT Capra)? Thanks in advance.

[@TrailPOV]

They are the same system, just different pivot locations

[@gmc3578]

... the other thing about "braking" forces and kinematic effects is that some designs perform quite a bit differently if you brake with both wheels or just the rear wheel... some bikes are much better than others when braking with both wheels (suitable to myself, as I tend to like braking with both front and rear in most situations on trail), I imagine bikes that have a further forward Instant Center are much better at braking with both front and rear, as it mimics a long swinging arm. But, I understand that this is more a "technique" thing for the most part. Pro DH guys/gals surely know when to use both or each brake (better than I do).

[@TrailPOV]

It's also heavily dependent on your body position, shock and fork tune and trail angle

[@guillemroda6977]

Can you do a video on maestro suspension i'm not sure if i could run a coil shock

[@TrailPOV]

Any particular model? There have been a lot of requests recently for the Maestro susp.

[@DonCadavona]

Please do a video on Giant’s Maestro suspension 😃

[@TrailPOV]

It is in the poll but so far the Enduro seems to be winning for the next vid

[@DonCadavona]

Ok maybe in near future then 🙂 coz I think Giant makes Scott, Trek and many other bikes. hard to unthink.

[@povteer]

very helpful video! 🤟

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks. Glad I could help!

[@MBdrummer3288]

This is extremely complex dude. Very hard for someone as stupid as I am to understand 🤪. Would love to a video like this on my bike, the new Stumpjumper. Keep up the great work 👍🏻.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks very much

[@mt2nv1]

Maestro next!!!

[@MrDjindian]

Please do The Evil Offering Delta!

[@TrailPOV]

It's coming this week :)

[@MrDjindian]

@@TrailPOV awesome! Hopefully this will help me finally decide Ripmo or Offering! Thank you!

[@joelrunyan1608]

Have you analyzed the pole suspension?

[@TrailPOV]

I have not so far, thanks for the input.

[@joelrunyan1608]

@@TrailPOV its very unique.... kinda like a modified dw. But the lower link actually pivots around the bottom bracket

[@garradmiller5025]

Can you do the Eminent AFS?

[@TrailPOV]

I've tried to analyze it but the rear brake poses an interesting physics problem during analysis

[@DaBinChe]

Great videos series of suspension explainations! One suggestion is slow down your talking so us idiots can have more time to process...I tried slowing videos speed but that was a little too slow made it hard to under stand.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks for the feedback

[@simonchaddock3694]

I have a similar set up on my 2022genius scott

[@TrailPOV]

Happy trails!

[@jlibantes]

my NS Snabb 2017 has the same or similar system as the ransom linkeage????

[@TrailPOV]

Similar. Pivot locations are different

[@ariwahyudi5766]

how about orbit link on dmr sled (dmrbikes)?

[@TrailPOV]

Never even heard of them before. I will have to take a peek at their website.

[@R6trackaddict66]

2017 YT AL Tues analyses ?

[@TrailPOV]

Don't often get requests for DH bikes, so good to know there's still interest

[@MaTTheWish]

Pro analysis.

[@TrailPOV]

Thanks!

[@StayAllRide]

Hello is it same like on Norco Range?

[@TrailPOV]

Very similar to the Range. Pivot placement is a bit different but similar trends exist between them

[@AndrewLakey]

Well done

[@crystalsalt6460]

Would it behave much different with a coil chock?

[@TrailPOV]

Yes. Way less ramp up at the end and way more small bump compliance.

[@crystalsalt6460]

@@TrailPOV so would you think it would be better or worse? I mean the bike itself is very progressive, not considering any shock. But with a progressive spring it might be evan better than an air shok?

[@TrailPOV]

@@crystalsalt6460 Very possibly better, although haven't tried myself

[@hannes6114]

This is great

[@andrewleighton472]

Does trek use this design? Looks similar to my remedy

[@TrailPOV]

Trek does not use this for the Remedy but it looks similar. They use their 'full floater' which is actually a linkage driven single pivot as there is a pivot in the frame and a pivot at the axle with no pivots in between those.

[@andrewleighton472]

My remedy’s shock is bolted to the frame at the bottom? I’m sure they updated their 2018+ range so they aren’t full floater so was assuming it was this design. Are you doing more explanations of other formats? Quality vids 👍🏽

[@TrailPOV]

@@andrewleighton472 You are right with the modern frames as they are running an ABP without the full floater. Having the pivot being the rear axle does make a huge difference.

[@andrewleighton472]

Trail POV thanks for reply. Interesting to know how my bikes working with the pro’s and cons of the design. Keep up the good work

[@TrailPOV]

@@andrewleighton472 Thanks.

[@chrisoattsjr]

For a 5’11 what size is better?

[@TrailPOV]

I ride a large and am 5'11"

[@Numeriwar]

0:50 not clear, you should put a different color for each part.

[@TrailPOV]

Instead of doing different colors I tried highlighting the various parts in orange as I was talking about them. But thanks for the feedback.

[@gasmaske1232]

Not all coil shocks are linear. If they have a progressive spring they aren't. PS: Thank you for the heart.

[@TrailPOV]

Absolutely true

[@gasmaske1232]

@@TrailPOV what do you think of progressive springs?

[@TrailPOV]

@@gasmaske1232 They can certainly work well for a bike with very linear or slightly regressive leverage ratio that you want to add some profressivity to.

[@gasmaske1232]

@@TrailPOV so it would not be good for a bike like the NS Snabb with a four Bar linkage.

[@TrailPOV]

@@gasmaske1232 You could give it a try on an NS....but you might be better of with just a linear coil on that bike

[@kangandres]

looking for new content :)