Traitor Rites of War - Horus Heresy 2.0 - Age Of Darkness

[@hannahgeraghty4201]

So an interesting trick with Coils of the Hydra for the Alpha Legion is to take with you an allied detatchment. The rest of your AL detatchment has to start in reserves, but those allies can be deployed along with your rewards units. You can even use this alongside the AL warlord trait encourages you to take allies an your opp can't score by killing them (Mobius Configuration I think?)

[@batteredwarrior]

I love this! Great point!

[@JamesN84]

Good video guys. Just a note on the WB dark brethren, you need to tailor your force to use fully & to limit hiding units. Landspeeders are cheap & solve the turn 1 issue most of the time but sicaran variants are also really handy. It's a top ROW if you build your force well

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Landspeeders are a good shout! Just getting those wounds in tbh, I’m not as staunchly against it as James (actually I think it’s a great RoW!)

[@Extreaminatus]

I bring a lascannon squad with a Master of Signals. Solves the turn 1 problem, even if night fighting is in play

[@dont-be-haten788]

It's very interesting that different parts of the world have different views on deep strike.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Where are you located and the view?! So I don’t think it’s a complete write off I just think you better be doing it with like 70+% of your army (except NL when it’s night time stacking fear and night to pin)

[@AndrewPeverells]

Great vid as always guys, love following you ❤️ One thing about TS Guard of the Crimson King though. I think you're underselling it a bit. It can be pretty scary in the right match ups, you can make some nasty combos with it. One of these being: support squad deep striking, with rotor cannons, make it athanaen. Cast telepathic fugue with the Sekhmets that are going to deep strike as well next to them, to shut down any potential reactions. Suddenly you have a squad that can pin an enemy unit at -3 LD (shell shock + fear 1 + athanaen). It has the potential to shut down a nasty termies death star and make it a super easy pray for your Sekhmets. Yeah it has lots of ifs in the process, and it gets hard countered by some Legions (like Death Guard, those smelly bois), but it's a really nice and scary combo.

[@Basskin]

Oh damn. Yeah that's pretty cool combo. Almost a pseudo Terror Assault.

[@AndrewPeverells]

@@Basskin precisely! We're Night Lords in disguise lol

[@MkZuO12345]

Concerning limitations of Berserker Assault, and mentioned Rhino blocking. As I understand the rules, you can only charge units that you shot at. Despoilers or ICs(that you put in Rampagers squads anyway) have pistols, so for example if you have a unit you want to charge in like 10'' range and a blocking Rhino at 7''. RAW by shooting pistols (or other assault weapons) at the further unit you prevent yourself from having to charge the Rhino. At least that's how I see it since nothing in RoW says that "must charge" overrules normal charge rules.

[@LordGrantius]

That's an interesting idea, I think most people discount it because firing your pistols opens you up to getting Return Fired and Overwatched, shot twice for the privilege

[@MkZuO12345]

True, but still can be useful against melee units/deathstars that you want to have your charge bonuses/deny them to enemy

[@BearfootMiniatures]

A good point! If you had ranged threats in your army aswell so your opponent is going to react to say your heavy squad then it’s a great work around!

[@FilmArtet]

Speaking as a fellow bearer of the word the Dark brethren row doesn’t state that you have to say it aloud so it’s a little dependent on what you and your opponent agree to. Even so scorpius make short work of hiding infantry and close combats units die which buff your close combat

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Never thought of that actually! Will scour the book to see if there’s any “must tell opponent choices” in the base rules!

[@captainferrite]

Guys Maru skara gives you +1 to move across the army for completely free, it's a RoW that's straight up gives you another legion's entire legion trait

[@DirtyMardi]

That goes away if you bring anything to table from outflank tho, so you can’t outflank and then get bonus.

[@lceidolon]

​@DirtyMardi You don't need to even utilize Outflank though. EC have built-in cc perks, and now get a speed boost. Being able to utilize the benefit in a vacuum is important. It's like not ordering the finest steak on the menu because you don't like one of the side dishes it comes with. Same mentality should go into ROW penalties; if the negative doesn't interact with your army list, it probably shouldn't be used as a crutch. Case in point for me is IH Head of the Gorgon limiting you to 1 FA choice. Never a problem for me, as I'll only entertain a Seeker Squad or a squadron of Sabres.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Not a bad point atall, I never actually considered not assigning anything! It’s pretty crazy then really! (I was just thinking reserves and of course reserves in as fast as possible)

[@DirtyMardi]

@@lceidolon true, but it’s either/or, so you take outflank on the turn of your choosing, or +1 movement. Both are good tho.

[@DoddyIshamel]

@@BearfootMiniatures You can also assign something not even that important and give your opponent the question of is it worth it to try and block it. Like a single sabre, if your opponent blocks it they probably wasted a unit to keep your cheaper unit of the board whilst giving your whole army +1M for the entire game. If they don't block it you can choose to bring the sabre in for some rear shots if you don't need the +1M any more. Blocking is lame and i wouldn't play anyone who did it, but frankly its only a big problem if you have buried your pts into the outflanking force. Which is already madness with interceptor being so broken.

[@Gruntlyfail]

Quick note on Outflank: the wording of the special rule is that you ‘may’ bring flanking assault units on from that point in flanking assault- there’s nothing stopping you from bringing blocked units on from reserve normally. Not ideal, but you shouldn’t be forced to destroy your own units

[@Basskin]

Would have to take a double read of that. Think I read it at the time as you had to decide at the start if you were and then couldn't change it. Be very happy if I was wrong about that!

[@amroth_painting8319]

The wording is that you can choose to bring them in but if you do you “must” bring them in following the flanking procedure.

[@Gruntlyfail]

@@amroth_painting8319 I can see that take, but hear me out: Middle of the first paragraph, sentence starting 'Once the Flanking Marker's...' states that the controlling player 'may move' units onto the field one at a time in the order of their choice. The use of the word 'may' here, in contrast with other similar rules (like, for example, surge moves) which use 'must' indicates the potential to opt out. If this were true, what could happen? Units in Outflank are still considered units in reserve, (that have been assigned to a flanking assault!) so I would argue that you could voluntarily choose to bring them in from Reserves normally instead. The lack of exclusionary language is what clinches it for me. Bottom of the first paragraph under 'Performing a Flanking Assault,' on the sentence beginning 'If there is not enough room...' it states that those that cannot fit must remain in 'Reserve' and move onto the battlefield next turn. Since the language isn't 'Remain in Flanking Assault' but instead 'Reserve,' you might read it that such units must be brought in through the normal reserve rules, but that's pretty shaky. (It says nothing, for instance, about removing the Flanking marker at any point, and there's nothing indicating that a unit once assigned to a 'Flanking Assault' is ever removed) Did the reading on this after a recent RTT where I saw a Space Wolf player boxed out under a different interpretation of the rules. It's not ironclad, but I think its grey-territory enough to warrant the argument at least.

[@amroth_painting8319]

@@Gruntlyfail totally agree with what your saying and I can see people arguing the toss but in the end it says “must” so they “must” and if they “can’t” then you will bring them on as reserves in your next turn as it tells you to.

[@theemissary1313]

I played the same EC opponent a few weeks in a row who used the outflank rite, third time he wasn't amused when i put the piss cheap scout unit on his marker. Still didn't lighten up when i told him they weren't dead.

[@Rangey88]

Good overview! I've ran Dark Brethren a few times now, always been quite fun. Command squad with 1 or more favours has gone mano a mano with most things, particularly when paired with the Iconoclast trait. Also like that it has no restrictions. Yet to try Serrated Sun :(

[@cristianmeiler4031]

There are some quite radical options for the Coils of the Hydra that might not be competitive but are going to give headaches. 3 units of Inner Circle Knights Cenobium in Spartans are no joke

[@myrar8708]

Or 30 fulmentarus. But who wants to play against that?

[@betobrakmo9157]

Yeah I think y’all are wrong about the the Dark Brethren. Sure every now and again the rhino running away screws you but I always tend to pick targets that you want to be coming closer to me. So the land raider or the command squad that you want in combat is always going to be my pick. Making a Mara Gal WS 7 or a kitted out command squad WS 6 is incredibly deadly. In this edition WS matters so much and making sure you always have the upper hand on your opponents elite combat units is easily worth the potential perils. That also being said it dose not grant +1 attack and you select the new target at the beginning of your turn so you can’t combo it across one deadly turn.

[@leesaggers6509]

I love it i had a 20 man tac squads on ws 6 lol

[@betobrakmo9157]

@@leesaggers6509 lol yeah I once beefed up an assault marine squad up to WS7 S7 just so I could wound a dreadnought I was stuck in combat with on 4s it’s such a useful Rite of War!

[@Basskin]

Don't disagree with you mate. Was just saying, if the WB player is picking a random rhino (which was the example I was given) it'd be easy to hide that model so it didn't die.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

I agree tbh mate; the times I’ve seen it played the buff seemed easy enough to get and as some other commenters have said, a Scorp or ailos missile daredeo can help pic off remnants or avert perils

[@tomdudley5314]

Yes I had a similar situ where I choose the enemy dreadnoughts kitted out for CC. Sure they're hard to kill but you want to kill them anyway and the opponent wants to use them. So if the first turn easy kill isn't available (i.e going second) I pick a dread. Got my command squad to WS 7 which was silly.

[@taffeh]

i like Connor's use of Portugese on the exit of the video

[@okonkwojones]

1:08:43 What model rolls the psychic test for the archaen force supercharge on the Castellax gun? The automata or the nearest character?

[@BearfootMiniatures]

I imagine the castellax as it is itself a psyched?! Have I missed something?

[@okonkwojones]

@@BearfootMiniatures yep you’re correct I just double checked, I only remembered the psy-automata prt, not that it was itself a psyker. I confused it with the whole characters can extend their psychic shooting attacks by casting through it like a beacon. Thought it was the weapon too. Not sure if it’d change anything either way.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

@@okonkwojones ah cool! I thought you were going to whip out a game changing viewpoint! Ye it’s a bit rules heavy I’n places I suppose (especially on stuff like automata and in this case interactions with pay)

[@AubLambe]

The one issue with Terror Assault is... You always take it. I made Armored Spearhead to change things up with my VIII, and that's fun but I want another way to run the army.... Maybe drop pods

[@Basskin]

So true. Gets boring after a while and it's nice to switch things up.

[@jamesespinosa690]

You consider the scout rites of war???

[@pablosturm6640]

@@jamesespinosa690same stuff different day. hope for night fighting, pop vehicles, pin mop up infantry all whilst using mobility and positioning to avoid retaliation.

[@lceidolon]

​@@jamesespinosa690Is a NL scout army just a teenage gang in stolen Halloween masks or Children of the Corn?

[@gaaaaaaaaaaah1]

I only use Crimson path with my WE, you're ignoring so much fire power in addition to messing with your opponents targeting procedure. I've found Berserker assault quite one dimesional and limiting. Though I suppose you could pistol shoot someone to get your target priority.

[@leesaggers6509]

With the dark brethren you just build for it just have guided fire in your list long range short range guns it quite promotes a diverse list

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Not a bad shout atall here to just ensure it!

[@danielheald1607]

Love the channel, just wondering do you have a specific theme or angle the channel comes at stuff from? Like casual or competitive play? Especially doing reviews James's competitive angle often makes it hard to compare stuff for casual or narrative play which I feel is where most of the community is at. If it is meant to be a more competitive style channel then that's cool For example we have a league of 24ish players at my local store and there's only 3 or 4 players running 10 lascannons or heaps of dreads And barely anyone running augury scanners.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Added a TLDR haha: Ive probably tended harder on competitive as thats how pick up games seem to trend, and thats followed into the guides I think I think can defiantly have a place for some competitive thoughts but would like to get it in check as its crept up a bit IMO its a bit of a mix really, potentially brace for a stream of thought as its something ive been thinking about a lot recently in terms of what do I want to do/what do people like watching/what do people like bringing on when they come on: - I didnt start the channel to be a competitive channel by any stretch, infact more the opposite as ive lost interest in competitive play as a focus since mid Heresy 1, in fact my favourite thing is hard-narrative stuff (a bit more like the narrative campaign me and Phil have just started doing which is based on about 10years of me and phil playing games and 4 events weve run all in the same narrative evolving) - Im not 100% happy with my format in the guides, it up a little in future as I dont want it to be the sole focus of the channel/vids. I think the format gives a too stark of an "answer" rather than what should be "these are the options and how they could be made to work", we tried rating things recently and I dont think it made it better (though going back to a podcast I think has its own problems for formatting) - In this particular one James is competitively with 30k though thats mainly due to going to throne of skulls alow, I do think guides lean towards whats best rather than anything else though thats something as above I need to get a handle on more

[@lonelysandbar]

I hadn't thought about what the other commenter said about the RoW not stating you have to share your selection with your opponent. I often bring a scorpius so I think I've only taken perils once in all the games I've played (granted I'm not playing waac competitive games). Dark Brethren is very snowbally, and yeah really benefits going first. Serrated Sun I'm glad you pointed out that it's really beneficial for not taking up all the elite slots. Mhara Gal don't come in talons so a contemptor, Mhara, apothecary detachment, and oh whoops now you only have one slot for Gal Vorbak. I think LoSS gets A LOT more fun when the daemon pdf releases. I have sadly yet to live the dream and make Lorgar WS10....someday...

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Daemons! GIVE US DAEMONS GW! My main experience of dark brethren is between yourself and James who’s been on the channel which I thought it was really good!

[@Skylifter1000]

Quick question: how do the SoH lose their legion bonus when they get a disordered charge due to hold? Cannot find that in the rules anywhere, what am I missing?

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Hey mate: their legion trait triggers when the SoH unit “Sucessfully charges, or are sucessfully charged” So with hold they lose any bonus due to charging (world eaters have a specific caveat to get round this but I think sons didn’t as they get both ways, which sadly means they don’t when someone holds)

[@Skylifter1000]

@@BearfootMiniatures They do not lose their charge bonusses if the target successfully holds, the charge just counts as disordered. Disordered just means they lose the +1 attack bonus, not all bonusses. The World Eaters one just clarified this to avoid confusion. Or am I missing something here?

[@BearfootMiniatures]

@@Skylifter1000 think you may have skimmed over the last bit of disordered mate (sadly for us all would love to be wrong in this), p182 (epub) of the rulebook in the disordered but: you lose the +1 attack “or any other bonus granted by special rules that require a model to have successfully charged”

[@Skylifter1000]

@@BearfootMiniatures Huh, that's true. I have only ever read the disordered charge bit under the multi-charge rules a few pages further in, and that last bit isn't mentioned there. Thanks for enlightening me!

[@Daclaw79]

Sometimes for the Emperor’s Children Maru Skara I only put one cheap throw away unit in the outflank and never have them come on the board if I can help it so the rest of my army gains the +1 Movement for the rest of the battle.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

completely overlooked this, or even putting none in tbh: gaining another legions legion rule just through a minimally restrictive rite is great

[@UntiltedName]

In The Reaping, 70 lascannons is a bit much what you need to do is 40 lascannons and 6 scorpius, then dedicate the remaining 1000pts to protecting it 😶 That siege breaker in Creeping Death is useful for autocannon or missile launcher squad to give them sunder.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Ruh row! Tbf ye scorpius which are always stationary, immense

[@ero9841]

Little trick with outflanking you can do is bait players to sit on point of outflank. Right in front of your gun line. Or place it just close enough to be tempting to walk over and try to body block. Pulling there unit away from the fight and right into your lascannon team.

[@Basskin]

Yeah true. But if you want to Lascannon my tactical squad, I'm honestly considering that a win on my part. 😂

[@ero9841]

@@Basskin tactical that are dead that could of been holding a objective

[@Basskin]

@@ero9841 True. But they more than likely wouldn't have been if they were designated to blocking outflank! :D

[@ero9841]

@@Basskin very true!

[@papanurgle9015]

@@Basskin doesn't have to be the las too be fair :) Kakophoni also decent at removing marines. Either way I think people are overlooking how good +1 move across the whole army is for a melee legion. That's basically the white scars rule from a row. Also nothing in the mara scara rule says you actually need to put something into reserve thus you can get the movment for the whole game.

[@RichSanders]

Swift blade is fun, but it feels like youre really forced to take 2 heralds. That plus the required praetor/del it feels alittle shallow in hq choices.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Ahh for the line? Ye I suppose if you want to go full bike! Atleast it still ends at the same number of characters as other forces (though I get your point line would’ve been nice)

[@ASHRID5150]

I've run Thousand Sons Achean Configuration a few times now so I'll offer some observations. While it is much better than the v1 rite it replaced, I'm of the opinion it was a last minute crutch (IIRC it wasnt in the leaked phase 3 play test rules) because the v2 psychic test/perils rules are so punishing to the Thousand Sons #CurseYouAndyHoare It's quite heavy on mandatory units as the Castellax-Achea are non-compulsory so your minimum outlay (using a Delegatus/Tacticals) is mid 700 points before any upgrades. Why can't a Thousand Sons Praevian take Castellax-Achea in the same slot (with or without this rite)? Why is it not a mandatory Praevian or Forge Lord? The mandatory Techmarine, fluff-wise makes sense but made more sense in v1 rules where they were a separate unit. In v2 if you want to repair the Castellax he has to drag a whole squad around. You either need to keep your other units around the Achea, or have multiple units of Achea to leverage offloading the perils wounds (which is arguably the whole point if the rite) Castellax and by extension the Achea are pretty bad in Heresy v2, you would at least have expected the Achea to be able to make reactions since they are psychically controlled.

[@theemissary1313]

Hammer of olympia is okay just for the ignoring crew stunned/shaken.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Ye: I like it for the just passive benefits and not many limitations, which tbh has a lot to be said for it

[@lagman333]

Hi guys, thanks for the review, but sadly I think you didn´t get the point of any of the Emperor´s Children Rites

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Hey mate: what did we miss and I could do an addendum or pin the post!?

[@jamesespinosa690]

Why did they make the shrapnel bolters cost points, when it has shorter range?? The shorter range is the cost... The have/had such bad design philosophy.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

You know I’d like to have an answer but I agree it’s non sensical

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@BearfootMiniatures Also, aren't they lower AP?? Or was that back in 1.0???

[@DeusExMachina10001]

I think it's supposed to be because they are Pinning that they have the nerfs.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

@@jamesespinosa690 ye ap- but really only comes into effect vs militia!

[@SirMeowingCat]

Coils of the Hydra all have to be the same unit.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

So they do! Had to read it a few times till I realised what you meant: cos it’s up to 3 “of the units” Jesus

[@SirMeowingCat]

LOL, can't clap rampages with imperial fists is a skill issue

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Clearly! Skill issues all around

[@thomasmulhall9317]

I still play TS 😂...

[@BearfootMiniatures]

One of the true Sons! Hats off sir!

[@papanurgle9015]

Maru skara okay, then again people i play against also dont pull the super gamey move of blocking the marker. Sort of goes against the spirit of the game. Alternatively just dont out anything into outflank and you get +1 movment for the whole game including say +1 to chargen for 7" movment models. But yeah its no match for some of the amazing loyalist ones. We do know GW loves to give the loyalist and especially fists all the love lol

[@Basskin]

I'd disagree. Depends on the spirit of the game you're playing. If we're playing a "lets do cool stuff" then I 100% agree I wouldn't block it. But I wouldn't expect you to intercept my Deep Striking stuff either. Those are the fun games! I did say I was looking at it from a 4 turn try to win the game approach, not a fun lets mess about and have a laugh approach. If you're playing the game to win, you'd 100% block the marker, otherwise you're disrespecting your opponent by saying they're not good enough to win even if you don't block them.

[@papanurgle9015]

@@Basskin yeah I suppose however I think intercepting is different then using a gamey maneuver like blocking the outflank marker :) Honestly a lot of times i simply put nothing into outflank and then just get the +1 movment for the whole game. (Gotta keep in mind thats basically the white scars entire legion rule for free)

[@Basskin]

@@papanurgle9015 Very valid!! Having the option there is quite useful too.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

I’d not considered just not putting anything in! I agree with the not blocking the marker, it’s hard to get the balance of what’s the best everyone playing with all the gameyness and having stuff ok in a general friendly game sense

[@DoddyIshamel]

@@Basskin I mean why not? Its an intercepting thing doing intercepting. You still get to drop out of its los, it still has to roll to hit and wound, you still get saves. Blocking is entirely contrived. Obviously it much more broken than interceptor or you would just interceptor the flanking assault ..... Anywhere else on the table the models could just move round. On an edge they are magically stuck. I guess you are one of the guys who used to block a ruinstorm portal and say they won when the opponent couldn't deploy a single model ..... The idea that using gamey tactics is "disrespecting your oponnent" is gross....