Tramming the Router on my Gatton CNC

[@kjohn5224]

Thanks you for all your great videos. It just blows me away that a wood CNC machine actually works effectively. I would think it would change constantly every time the weather changes.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Plywood is structurally stable, so there's no problem there. And we have huge temperature and humidity swings here in Oregon.

[@charlesprest1247]

I have quite a bit of experience in said matters and I can say, Good job!

[@craigturner2756]

This is easily and by far the best and most detailed video I've found on tramming. Great job Mark

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you very much, Craig! I hope it helps you out!

[@infinity7studios743]

Hi Mark, it's Gary here again (you watched and left kind comments on a video of me carving a gate a few weeks ago). I have been learning to us a Ooznest Workbee for just under 6 months and following your advice is an absolute god send. I'm to the point where I have seen that my machine is not trammed, and my spoiler board is not level. These are my next tasks to complete but I'm waiting for some parts to arrive for the machine (higher Y plates) before I do it. From what you have taught me here you have given me so much more confidence to give it my best shot. I'm going to buy a dial indicator as soon as I stop typing this comment. Thank you Mark!

[@gianfds3177]

Man thx, this video is perfect. I didn't know how to square my cnc, now I do with only one video. I built the same first gig for holding the dial indicator and will do the second too. This helped me out troubleshooting some long lasting issues I had. Now my cnc is performing almost perfectly and my works are outstanding. This mounting for the dial indicator helps a lot. Thanks again!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you very much for checking it out! It's a long, tedious process, but the rewards speak for themselves, don't they?

[@ApexWoodworks]

Mark, I like you idea of using a dial indicator mounted to the router collet to give you points of reference. I do something very similar to set up my radial arm saw and, to a lesser degree, my planer. But now I also plan on using it to level the table on my drill press. It's interesting how invaluable dial indicators can be in the workshop!

[@chrisadesigns]

I did the same video on my channel a few years back. It only takes me about 10-15min once a year just to give it a check over and adjust. Haven’t adjusted it in 2 years and it’s still running true.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks! That's great to know! I'll most likely check it again in the spring when the weather dries out. I figure if it's going to change, that's when it'll happen.

[@paulsmessyworkshop]

Mark, wow what patience but the end results are worth it. Thanks for the video.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Not much patience involved, but thank you, Paul. Like I said in the video, I don't know whether I lucked into it, or if someone was watching over me, but I'll gladly accept the results I got.

[@ESCAGEDOWOODWORKING]

You have been very immaculate with your build and settings. Amazing how you're getting it ready for proper running. These episodes will help so many people out there. High five Mark!!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks very much! I'm almost ready to start actually USING this puppy, and I can't wait!

[@richardhamptoniii8557]

Thanks for directing me to your video Mark. It sorted me straight out. I couldn't at the time think of the right terminology to properly search for the solution to my issue. Keep up the good work, your videos are awesome!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you for the kind words, Richard. We've all been there. It's hard to search for something when you don't know what it's called, right? Good luck!

[@anklebiterwoodworks2818]

Thank you, sir! I had been scratching my head about how to measure and adjust the tramming. But, after watching your video, I got the dial indicator and feeler gauges and was able to get everything adjusted to just over .001" all the way around. Never considered the sheet of glass and cards to get the level surface before planing the spoilboard. You rock, dude!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks! Glad it helped you out!

[@leosteger1476]

Great job on explaining how to tram the router. As retired machinist you did everything correctly. In my videos that I have posted using my Bridgeport my head is trammed to .0005 in a twelve inch circle.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you Leo. You machinists have a lot tighter tolerances that us wood guys have. I didn't really get into the radius of my little jig or how tight of a circle I was tramming it to, in an attempt to keep things simple. I know that .0015 may seem like "sloppy tolerances" to some, but wood just doesn't need that kind of precision. A lot of folks seem to forget that just the moisture in wood glue alone can swell a piece of wood to the point that it won't fit into a pocket, hole, or mortise if it's cut too tight. .0015 in nod and .0005 in twist is more than good enough for me. In fact, it exceeded all of my expectations by a huge amount. Thanks for watching Leo! I really appreciate it!

[@enricodesign619]

i have a cnc (an MPCNC) and i trammed it a little, but now i really get why and how, so im gonna do it again and better, thank you Mark

[@cncnutz]

Surprisingly accurate even before you tramed it. You must have a good eye. 3 teeshirts and 2 hats this week. Cheers Peter

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

You have a good eye as well. Thank you!

[@j.hankinson7803]

Thanks for posting the video. I’m enjoying your beginner series. I ended up tramming my router with a magnetic base angle box. I put a plain piece of 1\4” rod in the collet and zeroed the box to the work surface, then stuck it to the rod. As I rotated the rod in the router I could see the tilt in all directions. Seemed to work pretty well.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Hey, whatever works, you know? Thanks for checking out the video!

[@pbb1164]

Thanks for the video. Got the recommended dial indicator and tramming has commenced. Great instruction!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Sweet! Just take your time, and know that it can take a while to get dialed in. Just keep plugging away at it, and you'll get there. Mine took a little over 4 hours of back and forth. Thanks for checking out the video!

[@stevenlinder912]

Amazing video as always Mark, thank you so much for taking the time to do this.

[@MegaTopdogs]

Great more progress, close to zero, now flattening. Great video mark thanks.

[@DCDLaserCNC]

Great tutorial Mark

[@DiscoverRajivVlogs]

I'm also building my own CNC this will be really useful for me. Thanks for making this video.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks for watching!

[@mc4kvb]

Looks like your about to get everything dialed in. Good luck.

[@markwhite8446]

Hi Mark, great instructional videos! Thank you. I am curious - if the angle between the 1/2" dowel and the plywood arm is not perfectly 90°, wouldn't that throw off the readings?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you for your kind words, Mark (great name, by the way.) It could throw off the readings. But keep in mind this video was made 6 years ago, and I was trying to make do with what I had. I have since changed the way I tram my router/spindle, and that has eliminated that possible error. Here's a link to my new tramming system: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3SXhmijbblpj9k

[@MrRenoman2011]

Another great video Mark thanks

[@IceCreams62]

Great, easy and clever way to tram the router. But you must be sure the glass is perfectly flat to use it like a reliable reference tool.

[@andreww6738]

Wow, it looks like you had the right cards dealt to you! Awesome info Mark, Thank you, now I know what I have to look forward to. Who knows maybe I'll have the same cards. Andrew

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Good luck! It's not a bad adjustment to do - it just takes time.

[@marknantais8283]

Great video,i didnt realize that i would have to true the router up.Thanks

[@maxgarcia9512]

Mark, I liked this video because I have a smaller CNC Newwave SD110 and all I needed was the one Dial Indicator. However, with the larger CNC's, I like your other video that's more updated with the latest measuring Indicators you use ect...It doesnt seem to me that the SD110 node and tilt can be adjusted as easy as the larger machines. After seeing several videos on this subject and the money we pay for a CNC you would think the Mfg of the CNC would design the CNC with easy adjustment features and locations to read and make the Tramming process and adjustments a lot easier.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you, Max. I agree with you, and some manufacturers have incorporated features that allow for easier tilt adjustment. For nod adjustment, we're pretty much stuck with adding shims. The problem with nod adjustability is that almost any other solution compromises rigidity. That's something that just about every manufacturer agrees is a bad thing. And to be fair, nod adjustment is pretty much a one-time thing. Tilt adjustment usually is too, but it's fairly easy to incorporate tilt adjustment without compromising any rigidity.

[@bongomakers]

Mark, I just subscribed for several reasons, two of which are the accent sounds like me and the holes in your t shirt look like mine!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Both are valid reasons. Welcome aboard!

[@alankreifels6445]

I was thinking the same Dave :) the Gatton 3 needs to be able to play cards on the side!! Great video Mark!

[@rbwoodwork1890]

Excellent video. I’m pretty sure if you use a bigger piece of glass may have less trouble leveling the glass, just a thought.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you. I'm sure you're right about using a bigger piece of glass. Unfortunately, I didn't have a bigger piece that was thick enough to keep from sagging in the middle. I could have bought a piece specifically for this job, but I was in such a hurry to use the CNC, I just went with what I had. There will be more on this topic after I get the new shop/shed built and move the CNC over there.

[@ednyegaard9514]

Outstanding!! Well done Mark.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you, Sir!

[@alexgiron6286]

Mike question; you should do this after you put your spoiled board? Can you do this after you surface your spoiled? I’m new to CNC and when i mount mine CNC Machine got really excited about and i did not now about this.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks for checking out the video! You should do this after you put down the spoilboard, but before you surface it. That way you get a nice, flat surface on the spoilboard. Just know it's a slow, tedious process that takes a lot of back and forth, loosening, and tightening the router/spindle mount, checking, and rechecking.

[@mariomontoya7334]

Another great video Mark! I have an issue where there is slight play with the nod (in the Y- Direction). It’s very small but I am told by the manufacture that it will not affect performance. Seems to me that it would cause a slight shortening of the required distance traveled when cutting.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

I guess it depends on their definition of "very small." Still, if they say it's within tolerance, I'd go with their recommendation.

[@mariomontoya7334]

@@MarkLindsayCNC Thank you.

[@68shiloh]

Great video Mark. Very informative.

[@marcdedecker2962]

thak you for this video Mark. Very educational i am going to apply this procedure on to my home-build cnc.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks for checking it out, and good luck!

[@jamesschrader1244]

Great video. I may have missed it, but how did you make sure the flat on the dowel was parallel with the body? If it is off even a little bit it will throw off my adjustments.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

I sanded the flat into the dowel on my disk sander, using the miter gauge to keep it straight.

[@TrevorsWoodShop]

Very informative video great job Mark! Ill definitely be giving this a try and see about making some tramming plates for mine, they seem to help out a lot 👍🏻👍🏻

[@maxgarcia9512]

Great Video Mark. Question, can you use a piece of Plexiglass instead of glass?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

You can use any material that you are sure is flat and is thick enough that it doesn't sag in the middle. Glass is used most often because it's cheap and easy to find. Others use a piece of marble or granite. Since this video was made, I have purchased a granite surface plate that I now use instead of a piece of glass. Here's a link to the surface plate I use: amzn.to/3IKg3vD I also did an updated Tramming video, in which I used a better dial indicator setup. Here's a link to that video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3SXhmijbblpj9k

[@maxgarcia9512]

PS I did order the granite. I can use this with other things. Thanks

[@dalewilliamson1125]

Very informative Mark, thanks for sharing.

[@JimBeshears]

Thanks Mark!

[@tttuberc]

A lot of good tips. Thanks very much for the videos. Still wondering how are you sure that the plywood mount for the indicator have the two holes square up or if the indicator and the dowel are parallel together? Thanks

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Well, the holes used to mount them were drilled on the same drill press, which is nice and square, so I got them as square as possible with the tools I own. Also remember that we're talking about a wood router. We're not machining to a 5 digit to the right of the decimal tolerance. Good enough is good enough when you're working with wood. Most cabinet and furniture shops have a builder's tolerance of 1/16 of an inch. I'm well below that (.003") That's good enough for wood, so it's good enough for me.

[@tttuberc]

@@MarkLindsayCNC Thank you for the quick reply. That makes perfect sense

[@OldEnglishWorkshop]

Great video, this was the one i was waiting for, now i can do mine.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Hope it helps you out, Andrew! Thanks for all of your help, support, the cool jigs, and the excellent mounts, parts, and pieces you sent me!

[@OldEnglishWorkshop]

Oh you are welcome, anytime!! I am glad to have been able to help.

[@arronsersion5954]

Mark another great video, Thank you

[@musicmaneman38]

Why didn't you check it against all 4 corners of the table? I think you might get different readings. Did you check the thickness of the glass in different places?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

I'd certainly get different readings if I checked it at the 4 corners of the table. That's not the point of tramming. The point of tramming is to try to get the router square to the gantry. The thickness of the glass is irrelevant. It serves as a level plain to adjust the router mount from. Once I get my spoil board laid down, I'll surface it. That will give me a level table top. Now that I've trammed my router, the surface of the spoilboard will be smooth.

[@musicmaneman38]

Mark Lindsay CNC Great explaination. This solves many "Why is my router cutting grooves?" questions.

[@SimplyWoodenCreations1980]

Great information Mark. Enjoyed watching. I'll raise Dave .025"...

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you sir! But I think you and Dave are playing different games...

[@klausmadsen3639]

Great video thanks. What Mach3 screen is that I can see in the background? Cheers Klaus

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

That's the Mach3 Toolsetter by BigTex. You can get it on the Mach3 website. Thanks for watching!

[@hanspijpers2100]

why not turn the dial indicator 90 degrees counterclockwise so you can see it at the left side and the right side of your table (for the second part of the tramming)? you can stay in front of the camera . other wise a perfect way to set up the router plate Kind regards Hans

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you very much, Hans! The main reason for not touching the dial indicator after it's mounted is because I run the risk of moving it in the mount. Once it's mounted it needs to stay as placed. That way I'm sure all of the readings are as close to identical as possible. If I loosen the mount to turn the dial indicator, it could potentially move the indicator up or down just enough to give me inconsistent readings. Plus, my old eyes need that dial indicator as close to me as possible so I can actually read the thing (Don't get old - it sucks in more ways than I can count.)

[@Festivejelly]

Glass might not be the most flat. Might want a surface plate, and also 3 point levelling would be a bit easier as you cant really get a 4 point level plane.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Check out my latest video on this topic, in which I level, square, and tram my Avid 4848 Pro CNC router: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKe3ZKSgaadoeqM

[@Festivejelly]

Absolute magic thanks for this@@MarkLindsayCNC

[@jamesdaniel7985]

great job very help full I did rewire and it works now I have a problem with something I went to v carve made a star and a circle around it and group them together went to tool path .25 deep on line and saved went to mach 3 loaded g codes the star cut fine but the circle cut all but 2ins and stop and stell showed g codes but would not finish can you help thanks mark

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks James. Shoot me an e-mail through my website. marklindsaycnc.com This isn't really the place to get into diagnosing a problem.

[@Poolboy28560]

Hi Mark: Very nice video. Marlo

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks Marlo!

[@travisbrown5054]

You gotta be cock sure that your wood brackets are perfectly square as well otherwise you are just compounding the off-perpendicularness.

[@fotoreb]

super video :).. Thanx

[@jaredhildabrant13]

i cant quite put my finger on why but you look very ruggedly handsome at the end of the video here. hmmm ..... great stuff bud.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks, Doc! I always look ruggedly handsome. I think you just finally noticed. Get you a Doc Hildabrant t-shirt! teespring.com/jaredhildabrant#pid=369&cid=6527&sid=front

[@eddiek204]

Good lesson Mark. I'm on my way to the basement. I hope it's not going to be a 4 hour-er.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Just remember that slow and steady wins the race. Rule #1 is that it just takes time. Rule #2 is there's nothing you can do to change rule #1. Good luck!

[@fryscountrylifechannel4437]

Why not just spin the dial indicator towards the camera?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Because I'm 58 and my eyes aren't as good as they used to be - especially at that distance. I need to be more or less standing on top of it to read it. Pro Tip: Don't get old. It sucks.

[@fryscountrylifechannel4437]

Mark Lindsay CNC okay young fella, too late for the aging tip lol thanks for the video, very helpful

[@DaveGatton]

I'm .020" low. Dealer "Hit me". :-)

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

At least you didn't go over .021 - that's a bust.