Transit Proposal:Third Track on the BMT Jamaica Line East of Broadway Junction(New York City Subway)

#NYRailfan
The current New York City Subway's BMT Jamaica Line operates a J/Z skip stop service. Today I am proposing adding a 3rd track between Broadway Junction and 121 Street, to provide faster and more reliable peak direction express service.
*All clips in this video were filmed by me.
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[@ser010267]

Woodhaven Blvd was originally built with the provision that it could be rebuilt as a 3 platform express station ( my home stop)

[@bennythepenny5831]

The BMT Jamaica Elevated Line should be rebuilt to have 4 tracks for better express service. These should be the express stations on the BMT Jamaica Elevated Line via Broadway, Fulton Street, Crescent Street, Jamaica Avenue, & Jericho Turnpike: Ⓜ️ Lakeville Estates Ⓜ️ 212th Street Ⓜ️ Hollis Avenue-188th Street Ⓜ️ 168th Street Ⓜ️ 121st Street Ⓜ️ Cypress Hills Ⓜ️ Crescent Street Ⓜ️ Broadway Juntion Ⓜ️ Myrtle Avenue Ⓜ️ Marcy Avenue

[@Urban_Man]

Is it still going to have that curve at Crescent Street?

[@bennythepenny5831]

@@Urban_Man Only the (J) & should have it, while the (Z) & should immediately go onto Jamaica Avenue after Broadway Junction. The (X) & should run into the new BMT Rockaway Boulevard Elevated Line via Jamaica Elevated express. Multi-lettered routes will be complicated, so I’m not including them.

[@TheRailLeaguer]

Anyway, while building a Jamaica Avenue elevated structure between Broadway Junction and Cypress Hills in an attempt to speed J/Z train service, honestly you're better off just connecting the whole line to the Fulton Street IND Subway local tracks, and have that service link to the BMT Broadway subway in Manhattan via a new East River Tunnel. It saves everyone a lot of time, and increases capacity overall, especially for the Fulton Street subway due to the simplification of service in Queens and Brooklyn. You also experience faster service between Lower Manhattan and Jamaica, and that's about 20 minutes shaved off your commute between these two places, and to Downtown Brooklyn. From there, to make everyone else's lives easier, you can replace the elevated structure along Fulton Street with LIRR stations along the LIRR Atlantic Branch, with one at Crescent Street. This would further increase service in the area and eliminate needless redundancy.

[@bennythepenny5831]

For the next transit proposal videos, you can talk about these ideas: Extending Metro-North Railroad to Staten Island via a new 5th Avenue Line in Manhattan Rebuilding the demolished portion of the BMT Jamaica Elevated Line to 168th Street & beyond to Lakeville Estates Extending the BMT Liberty Avenue Elevated Line to Merrick Boulevard & connecting it to a new IND Merrick Elevated Line. Introducing the as an express service on the IRT Broadway Line north of 96th Street & rebuilding the line to accommodate the new service. Bringing back discontinued subway services Extending the (A) to The Bronx Extending the to City Island & rebuilding the IRT Pelham Line to have 4 tracks Extending the IRT Jerome Avenue Line beyond Woodlawn Extending the IRT Utica Avenue Line to The Rockaways in two branches: Rockaway Park & Breezy Point Connecting Queens & The Bronx via subway Bringing back NYC Trolleys Building elevated rapid transit for Nassau & Suffolk Counties Extending Metro North’s Hudson Line to Hudson via the Amtrak right-of-way Building the IND 2nd System Building crosstown subway lines in The Bronx

[@Urban_Man]

how would you rebuild the line for , rebuilt with 4 tracks?

[@bennythepenny5831]

@@Urban_Man It’s complicated. What do you think of my other ideas?

[@Urban_Man]

sounds good, I will look into them.

[@durece100]

​@@bennythepenny5831 Metro North won't work to extend to Staten Island.

[@officialmcdeath]

From memory, the existing alignment from Alabama Av on eastward isn't all that sturdy to begin with, which is why that upper level isn't used. Huge maintenance backlog to address for any of your plans to go forward. Thereapart, the plans involving new alignments along Jamaica Av might cause traffic bottlenecks at each end or overstimulate demand, so I'd go with the first one, subject to what I said at the start of this comment \m/

[@TheRailLeaguer]

How would demand be over saturated?

[@officialmcdeath]

@@TheRailLeaguerapologies for oversimplifying the original comment and thanks for the opportunity to expand on it. Here are some basic facts. There are only 2 tracks over the Willy B. There are only 2 tracks in the 'brown' Archer Av tunnels. So there is a limit to how many trains you could squeeze into Jamaica-Essex St and that's before we even think about the M train. Any new fancy bypass tracks in the middle merely add induced demand that cannot be fulfilled without a brand new corridor. If you build it, they will come. \m/

[@TheRailLeaguer]

@@officialmcdeath My plans do call for reworking Jamaica line service. The current routing is a dinosaur from another area and isn’t really serving the modern day era very well. Reworking the routings would improve commuting times and reduce congestion. Phase 1 of this plan involves building a new subway under Jamaica Avenue to link the IND Fulton Street Line local tracks, replacing the elevated structure over Fulton Street. With this connection taking a direct route via Jamaica Avenue and the Fulton Street Line, this would shave about 20 minutes between Jamaica, Downtown Brooklyn, and Lower Manhattan, saving travel time for Jamaica riders and improving connectivity. Now with Cranberry Street Tunnel at capacity, those Jamaica trains have to go somewhere. Luckily, at Hoyt-Scheme horn, the local track sit unused feeding into the Court Street station (now the Transit Museum) and south of Whitehall Street on the Broadway Line, there are provisions for a new East River Tunnel south of the Montague Street Tunnel. Connect those two with a new East River Tunnel and you have a new Manhattan outlet for the Jamaica Line trains. R and W trains will take over the Fulton Street Line local tracks with the R going to Jamaica Center and the W going to Euclid Avenue. C train service would then be redirected to the express tracks and operate to Lefferts Blvd with all A trains going to the Rockaways (there is the option to split the service evenly between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park, as well as the option of having all A trains to one terminal and doing a full time shuttle to the other), simplifying service in Queens and improving train frequencies in Brooklyn on all the tracks. J trains would now operate between Broadway Junction and 95th Street to replace R train service will Z train skip/stop service is eliminated. Before anyone whines about the loss of Fulton Street elevated service and distances to the replacement subway, I will mention that for one, the distance between Fulton and Jamaica isn’t that big of a deal, and second, viable replacements are either available or can be created. Specifically, new LIRR stations along the Atlantic Branch along Atlantic Avenue can be created. One will be at Crescent Street, serving Cypress Hills and providing one of two rail replacement alternatives to the Crescent Street station (the other is the existing Cypress Hills station at Jamaica Avenue). The other stations will be in Queens at Woodhaven Junction in Woodhaven and at Lefferts Blvd in Richmond Hill. Next Q24 bus service along Atlantic Avenue between Broadway Junction and Crescent Street would be increased, replacing service at the other for Fulton Street El stations. In addition, LIRR service along the Atlantic Avenue Branch will be modified with Far Rockaway, Hempstead, Long Beach, and West Hempstead Branch trains stopping at all the stations. All branches will operate every 15 minutes, which combined would give the Atlantic Branch stations frequent subway-like headways (one train every four minutes). That would be the other replacement rail service for East NY and Cypress Hills. Phase 2 would see a new connection between the 8th Avenue Line local tracks and the Williamsburg Bridge. This allows for 8th Avenue Line local trains to cross the Williamsburg Bridge and into Brooklyn, providing even more direct service between Northern Brooklyn and Midtown, a service that is immensely popular and isn’t going away anytime soon. With this, E trains would replace J train service to Broadway Junction, while M trains would be converted to K trains via the 8th Avenue Line. Consequently, this frees up capacity on the 6th Avenue Local tracks for Culver Express service, speeding up travel times for F train riders in Brooklyn. This V Culver Local service would be routed via the 63rd Street Tunnel with the F and take over R service in Queens Blvd, while the C train goes express in Manhattan, swapping with the D north of 59th Street. The K essentially fills in the gaps left over by the other routes. This Phase 2 allows for another way to get between North Brooklyn and Midtown for L train riders, allowing for them to avoid the crowds at Bedford Avenue. Additionally, consolidating Hewes and Lorimer Street stations with a single station at Union Avenue would allow for better transfer opportunities with the Crosstown Line, further easing congestion. This can be done before any of the two aforementioned phases can commence. This should ease some of your concerns.

[@luislaplume8261]

I agree 100 percent! 😊

[@amazing50000]

4:02 I like the idea of building a new elevated section along Jamaica Ave between Broadway Jct & Cypress Ave which connects with the rest of the line to Archer Ave (J Train) but no need to tear down the Fulton St. elevated portion between Broadway & Crescent St, as that can be used as a branch (The Z Train between Crescent St & Bay Parkway via 4 Ave local to help the R Train there) with the terminal being Crescent St. Only the S-Curve portion between Crescent St and Cypress Ave should be torn down. We need more service, not the same service.

[@TheRailLeaguer]

Replacing the Fulton Street elevated with a new line along Jamaica Avenue is providing more service (though keeping the Fulton Street elevated is needlessly redundant. In my view J trains shouldn’t even be going east of Broadway Junction. My plans call for connecting the Broadway Line at Whitehall Street with the Fulton Street Line local tracks and then having a new subway under Jamaica Avenue to connect with the Jamaica Avenue Line, with J train service replaced with Broadway Line service. That’s your “more service” you need.

[@amazing50000]

@@TheRailLeaguer Are you talking about getting rid of the Broadway (Brooklyn) Line between Broadway Junction and Moyle Ave? I do not understand that last part.

[@TheRailLeaguer]

⁠@@amazing50000I’m talking about getting rid of the section between Broadway Junction and the Cypress Hills stations. This includes the Alabama Avenue, Van Siclen Avenue, Cleveland Street, Norwood Avenue, and Crescent Street stations. Some of my most memorable plans call for replacing that stretch with a new subway linking the Jamaica Avenue Elevated with the IND Fulton Street subway at Broadway Junction. The five elevated stations would also be replaced with two: at Arlington Avenue, and at Highland Place. Great company to be with.

[@amazing50000]

@@TheRailLeaguer No, keeping the Fulton St EL between Broadway Junction & Crescent St along building a new EL on Jamaica Ave is giving the MTA a chance provide more service, because it is still going to be the same headways and same overcrowding if you just shift the J & Z lines over to the new Jamaica Ave EL and tear down the Fulton St EL just to speed up service . That area is transit dependent. That is like the MTA building the 2 Ave Line and then closing the Lexington Ave Line. Why would they do this? This was that same thing I had a problem with when the IND decided to build the Fulton St Subway under the Fulton St EL west of Broadway Junction in the 1930s & 1940's, which made the Fulton St EL west of Broadway Junction in their eyes useless in which they later tore down. The IND could of instead build the subway on Pacific Street instead, which then keep the Fulton Street EL west of Broadway Junction running. It is not just about speeding up the trains, it is also about trying to prevent overcrowding on these trains in my opinion.

[@TheRailLeaguer]

@@amazing50000 That’s not really true since service will be better, and no shift in crowding. The new subway will see increased service to compensate for any loss of the Fulton Street Elevated (whose ridership isn’t really that high to warrant keeping should the Jamaica Avenue subway be built). However in response to your concerns, I am proposing that several new stations be built on the LIRR Atlantic Branch nearby between Jamaica and Atlantic Terminal. With each LIRR branch running every 15 minutes, this should also provide additional service if warranted. I’m also proposing building the Jamaica Avenue Subway branch of the IND Fulton Street Line with four tracks for local and express service. This would go towards a longer term plan of replacing the entire Jamaica Avenue elevated with a new Jamaica Avenue Subway operating under the length of Jamaica Avenue from Broadway Junction to about 129th Street. Local trains would terminate at Woodhaven Blvd.

[@TransitMan_123]

Guys okay hear me out so When the J and Z Do Skip stop is horrible I think the J should not go skip stop and let it go local and let Z trains go Express Between Jamaica Center ,Sutphin Blvd ,121 Street , Woodhaven Blvd , 75 Street Elders Lane, Broadway Junction, Myrtle Av, Marcy Av , DeLancey street, Bowery ,Canal Street , Chambers Street , Fulton Street and Last one Broad Street

[@TheRailLeaguer]

In theory it’s a great idea, but that idea falls apart in reality when you consider the track layout. Crossing over the Williamsburg Bridge the line has two tracks and once it enters Brooklyn, the line splits into three tracks, a configuration it takes all the way to Broadway Junction. At Myrtle Avenue, a two track branch splits off to head via Myrtle Avenue to Ridgewood and Middle Village in Queens. Past Broadway Junction, the line is a two track configuration with space for a third. The existence of the Myrtle Avenue branch and the two track configuration over the Williamsburg Bridge constrains the track capacity on the Jamaica Line to 30 trains per hour. Even worse is the grade crossing junction with the Myrtle Avenue branch and the signals on the Williamsburg Bridge, which drop the total track capacity to 24 trains per hour. Since the M is the more popular route, that service would operate at 12 trains per hour, 15 if those two bottlenecks are fixed. This leaves 12-15 trains per hour for J/Z service. With these headways, peak direction express service would not be ideal, lest you want a massive net decrease in train frequencies for riders at local stations and severely overcrowded trains on both routes.

[@TheRailLeaguer]

Guys I'm sorry about @amazing50000. He doesn't have a clue about how the subway works and thinks that train capacity is infinite, when it really isn't. He probably thinks that the Jamaica Line can handle 30 M trains per hour and 30 J/Z trains per hour, when it really doesn't. Also lacks an open mind and perspective on anything.