Transvaluation of All Values: You Are Not A Slave

[@isaacwalker5124]

Surprisingly contradictory to your lecture on The Individual and the Community

[@JustinMBailey]

Oh yes Wes, this is your best lecture since your one on thinking! This is why I’ve been so excited for this years set of lectures. The first two were great but they still felt like “Wes Cecil plays his hits”, but this is all new territory now isn’t it???? Awesome dude can’t wait for more!

[@pytski4345]

I sit there on the freeway and listen to Wes Cecil! Thus I will it so!

[@anitatomasevichpianist7851]

Listening to Wes Cecil in traffic is my favorite thing! I almost started liking being stuck in traffic so I can listen to the lecture longer 😄😍

[@yasha12isreal]

Finally😃 another upload. Sir, we are truly grateful of your time.

[@eyezuel5307]

Wes Cecil lectures make me feel like I can do anything

[@eoinq6]

I am loving all of the lectures by wes cecil. It is the probably the best content on KZbin of this type. I am struggling to find anything similar, does anyone have any suggestions?

[@yasha12isreal]

All I can think of is Alan Watts🤔... and maybe even Terence McKenna 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@eoinq6]

@@yasha12isreal I'll try them out thanks.

[@timothyhirman4928]

Eric Dodson. Jordan Peterson.

[@GreenTruckEnjoyer]

Philosophy Tube is really great, and I'm quite partial to slavoj zizek

[@GreenTruckEnjoyer]

Philosophy Overdose also has loads of great lectures and programs

[@user-xn2hf9re8r]

so much wisdom - from a teacher's point of view, youngsters need to know this and start to think for themselves, rather than lazy thinking which happens so much in society and embedded in statutes of curriculum.

[@intoxicatingmooneyes9150]

Amazing thank you!

[@TheModernHermeticist]

Nice to see someone else discussing this.

[@ab-oj9wv]

"Clean up your room." Jordan Peterson "You don't have to clean up your room." Wes Cecil I sense a trend in academia toward explaining everything in terms of room-cleaning. Do they have secret investments in janitorial services, or do they think the best way to address current youths is in childish terms?

[@marc-anthonyllosa5965]

Yeah! I agree! What do they think they're getting at? Adults don't have rooms, dumbos!

[@strato5135]

All I have in my room is a grand piano that I'm paying installments on

[@blondequijote]

@@strato5135 you know what’s better than roses on that grand piano? Tulips on your organ.

[@Sonshien667]

Oooh these are the best!

[@aMulliganStew]

Dr. Cecil, here’s a little something I found today in Swami Vivekanana’s 1895 lecture on Karma Yoga. Maybe it’ll be useful in this series: “turning the other cheek” is vacuous if you feel you have no better option. Therefore if one wishes to be Christlike in this regard one must first be in a position where retaliation is practical. For only then can forgiveness be an act of compassion - otherwise it’s just a mechanism for separating oneself from the pain of abuse. Cheers , RK

[@physiqueDrummond]

First-timer here... ça part mal: There has always been slavery? No: when we were hunter-gatherer (so, the larger part of our historical time as a specie on this planet ) we spent 10-20 hrs per week on those tasks... more leisure time and no slaves.

[@mysigt_]

As I understand it, the limiting factor for slaves in hunter-gatherer societies was surplus resources; wealthy hunter/gatherers like the Haida Gwaii could afford to keep slaves, and did

[@post-structuralist]

Oh, you historical ilterate soul. He mentioned as far back as we have records, there has been slavery.

[@CG0077]

Brilliant, thoroughly enjoyed the lecture, though I have two thematic questions. You speak of Hierarchy at the end and the slave morals surrounding it, what are you views on this matter in the social/political sphere? To elaborate: Would abolishing hierarchies merely further reinforce a slave mentality (to 'the people' or dasman or 'the collective' etc etc) or liberate us from it? And because I expect your answer to be more detailed than a yes or no, affirm or disregard, in what manner would each potentially give rise? Would such a liberation be a net positive? And second; When engaging with the philosophies of existentialism why is it that you lean towards (or outright hold) that we are the measure of all things? Surely if we are raised into a social system ('thrown' if you will) is not even our most radical thoughts and innermost measures of the world reduce down to the influences of our society upon us? How then are we the measure of all things when what we are, and the measure we utilise, are a complex but nonetheless constructed system by our society? I guess my core incoherence between your thought and mine (at current) is that I cannot see how we can transcend ourselves, to step outside ourselves, in the sense I feel is necessary to ensure we are that which measures the world. Rather than a mere extension of society measuring it on our behalf.

[@MG-ge5xq]

I know a bunch of people who exactly behave how you describe them: being masters, no commitment towards others and having had a slavish childhood.

[@rhiannaloft3158]

Great video!

[@notdoneyet7785]

Interesting as always. Though I do often find myself wondering how life and society could possibly be rearranged to form a culture Wes would find more humane. What would he will the future to look like?

[@AjarnMatt]

11:00 "Your values, from you, define the world"

[@KevinRobinson-ub7wp]

The most I’ve ever learned in one hour

[@Havre_Chithra]

I constantly run into people who say "I can't", "I must", "I need to", "x makes me feel...". It represents a complete abortion of responsibility.

[@UnbeknownToHis]

Amazing as usual

[@psikeyhackr6914]

Economic power games! Technology has given us so much productivity that we need planned obsolescence to keep the old game going.

[@rhiannaloft3158]

Play not work and joy not fear

[@Great_Olaf5]

I've been noticing through the last two of these, but you have some significant misunderstandings of history, well, at least European history. Vernacular literacy rose dramatically following Antiquity, there were systems in place to limit literacy, but to the Church and aristocracy, the only literacy that mattered for most of that period was Latin. There are trial records of people being explicitly described as illiterate while simultaneously accusing them of, and providing evidence for, writing seditious letters to family members all across a wide region of the country (specifically in this instance, Medieval France, though I can't recall when specifically in that period...). This tells us a few things up front, these rural French peasants were literate, and their relatives were literate (if not by the standards of their day (Latin) or today (standardized spelling)), that they were having thoughts the Church and crown disapproved of, and were actively expressing those thoughts to each other in writing, but it also implies a few things, this was in the region of western Aquitaine, can't recall what town exactly they were in the vicinity of, and they had relatives as far away as Lyons, Carcassonne, and Maines, which implies a fair amount of free movement, at least on a generational scale, you might not move around a lot, but just because you were born somewhere didn't mean you'd be there your whole life. And I must reiterate these are rural farming peasants, not merchants, not city dwellers, farming peasants.

[@maiashar8441]

Wes, I think you are becoming an American Existentialist.

[@timothyhirman4928]

What an outrageously great lecture! Great counterpoint to the Jordan Peterson lectures I've been listening to recently. I'm 57 and my version of the piano story is the story of my entire life so far. Are you one of the Postmodernist, Left-wing, Neo-Marxists professors that Peterson is always harping about? (Yes, my tongue is in my cheek.) He makes so much logical sense, but what you have to say here appeals to my heart, and that's really "where I live". What do you (Wes Cecil) think about J.P.? What do all of you think of the differences between their points point of view? (Both W.C. and J.P.) I'm so curious about this. Thanks in advance to all who reply. By the way, I practice Buddhism and completely rejected Christianity when I was about 9 years old. That entire religious tradition, in my opinion, has deep roots in the slavery if those times.

[@Rahel_Rashid]

Well, to start, why do you think this opposes JP? In what way?

[@WeAreShowboat]

Timothy Hirman I also enjoy listening to a ton of Jordan Peterson, but also love listening to Wes Cecil. I don’t see the two as counterpoints to each other. JP tends to focus on those ways of life that help one interact in a large society (i.e. post agricultural revolution) WC focuses more on ancient ways of life (that would have formed pre-agricultural revolution but are baked into us at a deep level). Both are immensely helpful. Thank you, and God Bless you Wes Cecil by the way! Love the lectures!

[@Havre_Chithra]

Counterpoint?

[@baptistewxpolpodcast3339]

I usually like Wes' lectures but in this one his portrayal of freedom seems to me to be very shallow ... is there something I'm missing ?

[@beej1234]

Yeah you can’t be all “values are subjective” while at the same time making an objective style argument that people need to claim individuality in order to be “free.” Take the example he gave of people selling themselves to slavery. Were the people more “free” when they weren’t working as slaves? What circumstances led them to choose that option in the first place? If they willingly chose to be slaves, then are they not free? Or were they forced into that by the system, meaning they were never free? The concept of freedom is vague in the first place, so to make an objective claim that values are subjective and one is losing their freedom by listening to other’s opinions is very strange.

[@tomsteffes6344]

this is starting to sound like circular reasoning......

[@tomsteffes6344]

plus this reality only works if you live on a deserted island with plenty of fresh water and coconuts and pineapples

[@alexanderbrandt9816]

You criticized ‘master morality’ in the beginning, but it does seem to be much of what you’re advocating. Master morality had nothing to do with the joy of dominating slaves, it had everything to do with the expression of vitality, and excellence. I think it’s almost a misnomer, but I suppose I have no right to criticize the philologist par excellence’s choice of words. It seems to me like master morality would be the default morality of anyone except slaves- so it’s less master and more just non slave... I mean, I get that there is no default morality, and he’s only talking about western culture, but master morality is much more straightforward. Nietzsche’s criticism of master morality was that it was shallow and too plastic. An excess of resilience resulted in something incapable of profound transformation. The ideal was not unlike Sartre’s good faith. Only less humble, more standing on top of the mountain in the rain shouting I AM THE LIGHTNING!

[@patharvard]

Slavery was indigenous throughout Africa from long before American slaves were returned to Africa via Liberia.

[@krunkle5136]

Fair enough, but there are arguably better things that sublimate the internal rage. People need guidance, and if they're left to their own devices they'll eat sugary things and try to create music using a scammy smartphone app full of ads. The reason why American schools failed is a lack of uniforms and reasonable discipline, apart from the war torn towns that used to produce things. The students are distracted and need guidance, and are told to be themselves and that there is no optimal way to do anything.

[@raginald7mars408]

We are Domesticated Animals begging for Cage care and vote for the Care Promises...The Cage Owners selling the Chicken Eggs - fly away from the chicken farm...

[@keedt]

While I immensely enjoy every lecture of Wes, I feel he fails to appreciate the difference between discipline and self-discipline. Discipline (i.e. rules imposed on us) formed the essence of our enslaved past but self-discipline is an entirely different beast, and is probably the only way to be truly your own person. This video (not by me!) sums it up very nicely kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZeVanuol616ga8

[@post-structuralist]

Discipline and not the self-discipline you outline, just sounds like authority and Mob mentality. He already talks about that throughout the video, but uses different words. Self-discipline is placing some ground rules and lines for yourself. The "discipline" you put is nothing more than taking in the common values of what one ought and not to do. Aka, those aren't from you, and that's definitely something to keep in mind. Whether you take them in or not is fine after thinking about them, but he's saying to be suspicious of what you are told.

[@keedt]

@@post-structuralist it seems you lack the self-discipline to keep silent when you have nothing of substance to say.

[@post-structuralist]

@ernstig If you find my words empty, that is because you lack the faculties to find value in them. Sounds like you're the problem chump. Looks like all these years later and you haven't changed.

[@Havre_Chithra]

Ignore GM mostly due to it's Hegelian structure. It bores me. Some good stuff in there but his other work is way more informative.

[@stuntbikehamster]

Yay! And I get to be the first commenter! I have been checking Wes's YT page everyday, a few times a day for his latest {and no doubt, greatest} new post and VOILA! Here it is! Thanks, Wes! :-)

[@nickgogan]

Good luck picking a surgeon that you value for anything but the skill of surgery, which is selected for through hierarchies. You are not the measure for all things because there does exist a world outside of yourself, composed of both our social/nurture and nature. I’d be wary of sophistry my friend, I know you don’t need anyone like me to tell you this. Though I understand your underlying point of us generally devaluing ourselves, which likely comes from our slavish, brutal past. You balanced it out some more at the very end, but it’s clear where the scabies lie

[@Havre_Chithra]

A good surgeon is measured against man -- in particular his knowledge and skill with anatomy.

[@a.randomjack6661]

One needs to remember our evolution, one alpha male, female our couple and all the rest of the band follows in their own rank, and there's always a battle for rank (not always with muscle, there are alliances in chimps and apes), but most behavior is more or less submissive. This may be inscribed in our genes in some way, we should also listen to Robert Sapolsky (behavioral biology) to get a bigger picture. Philosophy (thinking) is fascinating, but we are mainly ruled by our biology among other factors. Just another thing we should also be aware of.

[@unchiekun]

Do one on Jordan Peterson and Carl Jung

[@raginald7mars408]

We are Domesticated Animals in a Toxic, self destructive Society, begging for Cage Care, voting for the Promise to get it....

[@JustinMBailey]

...on one hand I want to call you a total cynic.....but on the other.....yeah you're totally 100% right dude good for you. People think it's clowns hiding in sewers offering us free balloons, or hatchet wielding maniacs in hockey masks that scare us most but no.....no......it's just freedom that's the boogie man in most of our closets. WFT right?

[@raginald7mars408]

Justin Bailey makes no sense to criticize anything. We participate in that world - so we pay the price. There is no Exile on Mainstreet anymore - Mick Jagger.

[@FreeFromAllThings]

Okay I didn't listen the whole speech, but even in the first 5 minutes there were extremly lot historical inaccuracy. For example in Rome never were 50% population slave...I cannot belive that while he made so good lectures about philosophers he himself is actually a very bad one.

[@Havre_Chithra]

It was about half actually. Roughly 30-40%. Not far off.

[@Havre_Chithra]

Some estimates are as high as 50% though.

[@rickturnr]

Debatable

[@cleanhabitats108]

I'm glad I fell asleep during this nonsense. it was time better spent.

[@Havre_Chithra]

I'm sure your girlfriend feels the same about you.

[@enlightenedturtle9507]

@@Havre_Chithra that's what she said. You missed your only chance man