Before Bauhaus: How Goth Became Goth

[@TrashTheory]

So what modern bands do you believe embody the spirit of gothic rock? Trash Theory playlists - Spotify: tinyurl.com/yxp32pjf Deezer: tinyurl.com/y2mdp8h2 Also if you want to help out, here's my patreon link: patreon.com/trashtheory

[@Mildon44]

one of the best modern goth bands I've seen are "the TRAITRS" they just have a beautiful feel to their songs

[@Xskramz_archivistX]

can u do how emo became emo

[@robertpetre9378]

Trim tribes , she passed away , Lebanon’s Hanover, whispers in the shadows to name a thew.

[@robertpetre9378]

emmanuel de la cruz yes they are defiantly goth adjacent like industrial music

[@vallisdaemonumofficial]

🤔 DEFINITELY NOT SOUNDCLOUD RAPPERS, THEY WOULDN'T BE DYING IF THEY WERE GOTH BECAUSE GOTH IS DEAD. UNDEAD. UNDEAD.

[@BookOfFaustus]

I love Bela Lugosi's Dead because I can start the song, do the dishes, walk the dog, and pick out an outfit before the song even starts

[@Dr.Thirteen]

😂

[@Dank_Engine]

hahaha

[@siren71]

Lol yes!

[@letztekrankheit]

What about listening to the song? Pink Floyd gets up to 23 minutes. It's still music worth listening to

[@inthefade]

I love Bela Lugosi's Dad.

[@betttrbeth]

Oddly, being Goth in the late 80s and obsessing over death and listening to Bauhaus & Joy Division and The Cure was a fun time in my life.

[@matham625]

check this out: Harry Toledo - Knots from Max's Kansas city.. best proto goth song ever: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIm7f3yPnbR8n8U .........................& ps not enough of the dammned here

[@deborahbergman3566]

I wouldn't take Alice Cooper or Nico or even the Doors for being the predecessors of Goth...but ok :/

[@melissasanford2051]

True dat!

[@teledoink]

Me too! I miss smoking clove cigarettes and sitting around waiting for the concert venue to let us in, while talking about how misunderstood we all were. It was nice to feel like I finally had a community of other kids who knew how I felt

[@pfrstreetgang7511]

Thank God I'm not the only person who experienced that.

[@takoinche]

I love how every "how [genre] became [genre]" mentions The Velvte Underground

[@postpunk69SexAndViolence]

Because velvets are genius band, velvets and beatles, the most influential bands ever

[@mgm8255]

@@postpunk69SexAndViolence there will not be any artists that will influence as much as they did, without them nothing would be the same

[@postpunk69SexAndViolence]

@@mgm8255 totally right

[@elainebelzDetroit]

And yet not enough mention of John Cale.

[@israelmaldonado2928]

@@elainebelzDetroit what are you talking about, they mention him plenty

[@lynnhettrick7588]

I like the analogy of goth being the younger sibling of post-punk. I think that fits well. I was in high school in the late '80s and we considered The Cure, Siouxsie, PIL, Cocteau Twins, The Smiths, Echo & the Bunnymen, etc. to be post-punk.

[@AutPen38]

There was a sort of joke in the late '80s that went something like "How do you know when someone's a goth? They deny it!" It was kind of weird how you'd have fans of the Cure and Siouxsie with powdered white faces, huge backcombed hair, and black and purple clothes and they'd always say "I'm not a goth!"

[@profezzordarke4362]

@@AutPen38 And now we're quite the opposite and have to defend the definition of Goth, because people make it only a fashion movement and completely forget that Goth Rock is *still an active scene*

[@Kenlydford]

My older brother would refer to it as progressive rock. I thought it was closer to punk always. I didn’t hear the term goth much until the late eighties. I didn’t argue with him because I loved a lot of these bands and didn’t really care.

[@markc17]

I'd always thought of Echo as more pop but I guess you're right that sonically they do share something with the Cure and Siouxsie. But The Smiths? I would have thought them much too late and different to be post-punk, maybe sonically influenced but there was a lot of water under the bridge by the time they started. Indie made a whole new branch of the family of its' own by the time of the Smiths.

[@melissasanford2051]

I concur

[@AntaresSelket]

As a preteen I went through a phase of listening to the Doors. My mom, who grew up in the era, asked, "Aren't some of their songs depressing?" A year later I was dressed all in black, listening to Bauhaus, Glam Rock, and New Wave, and she was grounding me for wearing black and wanting to dye my hair black. Cut to present day, and I still wear all black and dark makeup, playing a goth playlist periodically. I raised my son as a goth parent, and people were often shocked to see such a polite, respectful boy, being raised by me. I was dressing goth in the eighties, when half of society thought we were satanics, while now, society sees goth as a phase or genre style and older goths like me are still goth (no phase here).

[@brandonboogers]

The Doors really is the gateway drug to the dark side of music; I went from The Doors to black metal (NOT DEATH METAL).

[@keirfarnum6811]

Eldergoths unite! I’m just glad there are babybats still into it.

[@AntaresSelket]

@@keirfarnum6811 Me too! I always knew gothdom was for life.

[@ThePlaySpace-CurtainCall]

@AntaresSelket I'm pretty certain I was the first goth kid in Alabama back in the 80's. While everyone else was listening to Bon Jovi and Whitesnake I was wearing out Cult and Damned records alongside Fields of the Nephilim and early 70's glam. I started my first band with the drummer for Man or Astro Man? and the guitarist for Lunasect. We were awful. It didn't help that I wanted to be Dave Vanian so bad I could taste it, despite sounding more like Ian Asterbury...or Ethel Merman. I will confess that the clothes and make up eventually became too impractical, especially for work. But, I still have all of it in my closet next to my suits.

[@AntaresSelket]

@@ThePlaySpace-CurtainCall Who knew, I should have gone to Alabama!

[@mindyourownbusiness5515]

I clicked the video because I'm an old goth and am stoned and just killing time, not expecting it to be any more than a bit of nostalgia connected by some mindless verbiage, but it was surprisingly well informed and written by someone who clearly 'gets' goth music. If this was the product of research from someone who didn't live through it first hand, then bloody well done!

[@joeyroy7864]

Hell Yeah!

[@Saffron-sugar]

Same story here. Pleasant surprise

[@ngairehodge8566]

Agreed!

[@cthulhu6697]

I agree. This guy clearly did his homework. I'm an old goth myself and, like Mindyour Ownbusiness, I'm killing time while high ( oxycodone and xanax ) and thought I would have some laughs at the inaccuracies of a "made for trendy" documentary for wannabe's. I'm pleasantly surprised. This is a well done piece of video about the stuff that influenced goth. I still think Johnny Cash was the first goth; he dressed in black, his songs were depressive and gloomy, and so on. Very well done

[@xadamxcabalx]

This guy always does his homework on his videos. Check out his other work.

[@liv8370]

When you’re realizing you’ve been listening to goth music without actually being goth for years

[@profezzordarke4362]

That makes you a goth, it's about the music, not the fashion.

[@rb5078]

Same. I'm in my 40's and I've been listening to goth my entire life. It's always been my favorite genre. People are always shocked because I look so plain. I do love the aesthetic, but it's just too much work for me. I'd rather just wear jeans and a t-shirt with no makeup. lol

[@k1ttyF158er]

@@profezzordarke4362 Actually, the term "goth" originally had nothing to do with music and was ALL about the fashion....... The term "goth" was coined by Ian Astbury (of the Cult) when referring to Andi from the band 'Sex Gang Children' as "The Gothic Goblin" because he was this little guy who used to read Edith Piaf, dressed in black and lived in the Visigoth Towers in Brixton. -- I first heard the story from Dave Roberts (bass player of Sex Gang Children). Though there are links online that can corroborate.

[@deespaeth8180]

LOL I just realized I'm goth.

[@martinandroid2538]

@@rb5078 I look so plain now at 58 as well. :)

[@theplaguepadart3743]

The special thing about goth is its such an umbrella. There so many genres under the goth umbrella that so many people can come together. From a more harsh, lyrical chaotic music, to slower, distorted, and romance ish. There are so many of us that we can meet many other goths and learn new things. It's beautiful

[@davetheimpaler204]

I like the more open-minded approach to the genre. Being too much of a purist is kind of a turn-off for me because I always saw the pushback against bands that became popular, like Marilyn Manson, from the gothic community to just be a form of petty gatekeeping and not wanting to share the culture with others. Several songs on Manson's first album alone certainly qualify as goth music, for example, and many other bands that were rejected by purists have several goth songs as well or a very clear gothic influence.

[@williamzebub3252]

@@davetheimpaler204 Yeah, this is way too gatekeepy for my liking. All credit to the originators, but Goth has progressed far beyond the trad goth style of music. There's a wide variety of music out there that that's been released since 1990 that can be legit classified as goth.

[@theplaguepadart3743]

@@sleep4579 hit me with em! I'll listen to anything and give it a chance.

[@mleszzor6866]

@@sleep4579 I'm intrigued, may you please tell me about this?

[@KimiChanJapan]

​"goth rappers" aren't goth. that Is rappers who dress goth.

[@tipsybass7060]

I never would of thought the doors as goth, but it does make sense considering much of Morrison’s poetry is macabre. What a great documentary!!

[@cortex13_]

well they're an influence on goth. I wouldn't exactly call the doors goth

[@prettyaverage97]

@@cortex13_ They aren't, but Jim Morrison's lyrics and even some instrumentals for their songs have definitely influenced goth rock

[@mikefarrell4742]

I would totally consider The Doors a proto Goth Rock or Death Rock band

[@superfoo8258]

Definitely proto goth

[@outsidethewall8488]

I had never considered this, but I think proto-goth is a good way of putting it. Kind of like how I see the Smiths as proto-emo - they didn't have that emo aesthetic but they definitely had the self-hating lyrics.

[@geekthegirl6961]

Iron Butterfly's In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida began in 1968, and only recently finished this past August.

[@bcccl569]

underrated comment

[@sparksmcgee6641]

Once had an old guy working with me at a pizza joint look a me and say "Its hard to whistle in a gadda da vida while you work"

[@nekkidpossum4397]

:D

[@SavoxYT]

That song sounds like rock and/or roll...

[@andchat6241]

In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida is used brilliantly in the film 'Manhunter ' ........( & the simpsons) rock & / or roll indeed it is..

[@ViRRization]

A genealogy of Goth music that points out Nico as a pivotal influence, at last!!

[@luismarioguerrerosanchez4747]

@virginia romero She's deserves more credit than she gets, the only true original artist of the 20th century.

[@johngarbutt]

Absolutely correct. She was awesome. Don't overlook the part John Cale played in putting together The Marble Index. Nico could do no wrong in my opinion. Totally original and a highly intelligent woman. RIP.

[@timprescott4634]

Luis Mario Guerrero Sánchez oh please....

[@spiritualcramp8000]

cmon she just a singer velvet underground was the shit

[@lextalonis839]

Yeah Nico had the image and the music.

[@MaxRamos8]

I think you nailed it, dark romanticism, literally. That era of history (late 1700s-Mid 1800s) brought us Funeral marches, dramatic operas, Edgar Allen Poe, and some fantastic music.

[@OpeningsOpenings]

Not to mention the music of the dark and Middle Ages Stuff like this… Worldes Blis kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWbGmHmdjb52nrcsi=XpPdOz5lOZ_NsgkN And another version of it at 3:10 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHS4gKxufNmHj68si=HPZuJjEbJycRfYxj Or starting at 4:08 - this… kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHOzpJ-upsyegdEsi=9zWugj6CZ0tAXKT6

[@madslasher12]

I love how the Doors are mentioned early on in the video. Definitely innovators- so creative and dark for their time, yet their music still sounds fresh today

[@amandaredd3057]

I still get lost anytime The End comes on

[@karleeweeg4998]

It makes sense that I’m a huge fan of both the doors and bauhaus and cinema strange and other such groups. I mean, for those who are skeptical check out “not to touch the earth” eerie tune.

[@garygomesvedicastrology]

I don't recall Arthur Brown being mentioned (Arthur had the weird make up before Alice Cooper did-he was probably too high energy to be considered Goth, maybe?) But, in retrospect, Arthur anticipated Progressive, even some electronic music) If I missed it, sorry...but he should be. So should groups like the (don't laugh) Zombies and Beau Brummels and even Music Machine.

[@cnoeroman]

I would also add Leonard Cohen as an important influence, especially on a lyrical level. Considering that one of the most important Goth Rock bands -The Sisters Of Mercy - took their name from one of Cohen's songs, besides, relevant people for the scene such as Nick Cave calls Cohen as a major influence on his writing style. In the album Songs of Love and Hate, the gloomy and romantic style that later would permeate the entire gothic scene, is already conteined

[@luismarioguerrerosanchez4747]

His songs are very depressing and sad, but with a lyrical richness that all those kids in dracula make up could only dream of.

[@hollowone777]

I mean, I remember when I was first discovering the Bauhaus and Joy Division, I also found Leonard Cohen and I was utterly bewildered why other goths didn't listen to him. I'm still bewildered. Ugh, no one listens to me anyway and I'm too old to yell at kids who only give a fuck about what they look like.

[@jamesmoore2223]

Avalanche

[@riphopfer5816]

I completely concur.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

@Aaron Kroll that was indeed a bate

[@WildsDreams45]

My dad would always tear up when he heard that song "This is the end" and he told me that when he was over there he really did think that it was the end for him because he had lost people that were close to him in that war and he had done things that were unredeemable. Something he still struggles with.

[@HkFinn83]

Do you think he’s worried he’s going to hell?

[@WildsDreams45]

@@HkFinn83 "I believe that men seek the afterlife in the hopes of having a better life than they lived on earth. A life free of pain, suffering and torment. A paradise. Something that even the wealthiest among us can't find. " That's something that my father said. We're both atheist, and it's not the thought of going to hell that he struggles with, but the thought of how he's affected people and families. He's the kind of guy who would capture a spider, and put it outside. In order to protect his brothers he did things that he'll never forgive himself for. I can understand the burden he feels, but living a life without the possibility of redemption is the ultimate punishment in my eyes.

[@reneerolandgraceinyourface]

The Lord paid for that. He should forgive himself. God has for the sake of Christ. My dad served 2x in Vietnam. He was messed up😢 too

[@AutPen38]

Nico's voice is my all-time favourite, but I'd never heard that description before "like a cello getting out of bed in the morning". Brilliant!

[@Bexks]

I can sing just like her 😊

[@gigiingervaldt44]

Thank you for giving credit to Screaming Jay. Black Musicians who blaze the trail rarely get credit for their contributions to Goth culture.💖

[@siouxsansue7690]

Gigi Ingervaldt I had the pleasure of booking Screaming Jay at a Punk/ alt. Goth club in Deep Ellum Dallas Tx. The dark , mystical mood he set when singing,”I put a Spell on You “ , was as intense as the videos I had seen of his performances when he was at his heights.

[@eliagamiz1320]

Goth is black ✊

[@cosmicbaggy]

Goth funk is also a thing. All pop music comes from the blues...

[@toshiyaar7885]

I thought it was an awesome fun fact 🙂

[@tdsims1963]

Alice Cooper, you owe Hawkins your career, you know that, right?

[@HekylHyde]

Dead Can Dance enters the scene in 1981, but they were certainly influential, but never seem to get recognition. Their discography was also very eclectic, mixing in much tribal and Celtic style.

[@timarielarose3011]

Yes! Their self-titled 1984 album was a staple in my early collection.

[@djdrack4681]

They were definitely pioneers but like Clan of Xymox and Lacrimosa they quickly went on to pave new grounds that can be argued as quite distinct from Bauhaus/SoM/The Cure imitators.

[@davidcreegan952]

DCD is in a world all to themselves. I've seen them 4 times live and been listening since 89 when I first heard "The Arrival and the Reunion". So glad you mentioned them.. I wanted to but wondered if the younger crowd would "get it"

[@samhaines8228]

4 A.D. was a hell of a label

[@Iofflight78]

Going to see them for the 4th time in May. Super happy about it, they are phenomenal live.

[@IDoDeclareify]

Making this a pre-goth Spotify playlist ASAP

[@kool_thing]

Please, share a link here

[@Flo-jn9hu]

​@@kool_thing open.spotify.com/playlist/3WH3YuFq3oM9ThkUSt3W3e

[@Balidor]

@@Flo-jn9hu Thanks mate !

[@stickywickedy]

@Tassos Fragou Thanks, much appreciated

[@ChrisLawton66]

@Cicada 3301 douchey comment

[@julianhermanubis6800]

Nina Hagen and Lene Lovich both come a few years before goth rock coalesced and have to be considered as influences. Also, I'd like to have seen a bit about European goth bands, like Xmal Deutschland and Clan of Xymox.

[@gabrielhaas]

X-Mal was one of my favs!

[@alexengland-shinemercy]

Good comment. No spite, just relevant points to add to the conversation.

[@cchoi108]

Another good call out. He should update this video with these call outs

[@keiththorpe9571]

In Nico, you can most definitely hear every Siouxsie and the Banshees song ever recorded. Good to see you giving Nico some love.

[@ECCENTRICERIC69]

No, you can't! You obviously haven't heard a lot of Siouxsies stuff!

[@s3lfFish]

totally, I actually never heard her solo work, I was choked, like "hey its siouxie, but 20 years earlier", siouxie still rock though ;) but so does Nico

[@P-Bass_Pete]

I definately hear early Siouxsie songs such as Playground Twist, Staircase mystery, Spellbound, etc.

[@kalevala29]

Siouxsie was definitely a fan, in fact she brought Nico on tour, but it became a disaster because of the neo Nazis that would show up at the Banshees' early gigs and the other fans booed her because they didn't know who she was, but Siouxsie was not a copycat. The Banshees were far more diverse.

[@senglomein5766]

Nico has a particular sound; which some like and others dont, but still there's no denying that, in respect to the actual craft of _singing,_ she was awful.

[@Lycurgus1982]

I know this is fairly obvious, and they were essentially a 90's metal band, but i think Type o Negative really captured the gothic vibe in a way that no one has before or have since. To be honest, they weren't the most musical band, but their approach aesthetically is remarkable. A deep voice with a slow pace, heavy distortion and a sprinkle of piano. They really take me there.

[@skwaab]

Peter Steele was the living embodiment of the whole thing. 6ft 7in of crooning vampire.

[@NatteRoll]

True, AKA Wolf Moon, Suspended in Dusk Vibe, Haunted, Anesthesia...

[@golgariblightwarlock]

I can see why you'd think that. But type o negative are doom metal, not goth. Goth and metal are two different things, influences and imagery aside. They are an epic band though with many tongue in cheek nods towards the actual goth subculture, despite them being metal.

[@staceysaurusrex2630]

@@golgariblightwarlock I've typically seen Type O, the Peaceville three, etc. referred to as "gothic metal". These bands have the same influences as goth, but they were also directly influenced by goth itself, which had peaked just a few years before they were active. The fashion most (mainstream) people think of as goth nowadays is also the 90's/00's "mall goth" evolution of the style that's more associated with goth metal than the original batcave music. So imo, it's not incorrect to refer to Type O Negative as "goth" - I see both goth metal and traditional goth as distinct "species" within the "genus" of goth.

[@golgariblightwarlock]

@@staceysaurusrex2630 and therein lies the issue, because gothic metal does take inspiration from traditional goth. But being inspired by something, doesn't make you a part of it. While I disagree with your conclusion I appreciate the well thought comment and the basis of your opinion. The mall goth thing was purely a creation of the media who failed to understand the actual goth subculture in the late 90's and started associating bands based purely on aesthetics rather than having anything musically in common, same with bands like nine inch nails, again, not goth but the media said otherwise. Obviously the younger generation then picked up on that and thus the whole issue got perpetuated. I'm a fan of both traditional goth and of metal, but the latter is not part of the former. They are two distinct subcultures. So while your summation that refering to type o negative as 'gothic metal' is correct. They aren't 'goth' in terms of the subculture, that refers to the post punk/positive punk movement that started in the late 70's early 80's, as you say, the batcave style, which still exists today. Hence my comment on there being a distinct difference culturally. Gothic metal is part of the metal subculture, not the goth subculture. As those are two very different things. ☺️ (Edit: spelling corrections)

[@gorimbaud]

When you start a video on goth history with Screamin' Jay Hawkins, you're doing it right.

[@veegar9265]

I duno, THAT guy looked pretty corny!

[@ianfindly3257]

@@veegar9265 Yeah, but he probably was edgy for the 1950s. And I imagine you wouldn't have Alice Cooper or The Cramps without him.

[@gorimbaud]

@@veegar9265 it's wild that you say that like camp isn't a vital component in goth

[@jangomoonstomp]

Dead right, then Screaming Lord Sutch totally influenced the Damned etc in the UK, indisputable 😀

[@gorimbaud]

@AJtheory it's not about covers, and goth didn't just burst forth fully formed from peter murphy's forehead, but sjh was like a prototype. he played with the sinister and macabre in a way that had an obvious influence.

[@briannae.martin9959]

I loved watching the transition. It makes me happy to see the history of goth and how it came to be. I once went through my transition too from being “normal” confused and not knowing what I was who I was to dwelling further and further into the culture of goth and I will never go back. I always had an eye for the odd and irregular things, for darker and obscure. I felt misunderstood for many years and now I am happier than ever knowing I found what makes me feel as if I am home no matter where I go. 🖤Thank you for this video!

[@LycanWitch]

This video is so sad on KZbin.. can tell it wants to so desperately want to play longer samples of each song but damn KZbin's strict demonetization garbage.. Seriously need to upload this video elsewhere where it can have room to breathe and share longer samples.

[@timstich1052]

You can find a lot of the songs in their full versions.

[@LycanWitch]

@@timstich1052 no shit Sherlock.

[@psychoPilgrim36]

Raven they dont really need to show longer samples. If you wanna hear more of the songs then go listen to them

[@TracyD2]

I hear what you are saying.

[@MrAgmoore]

Painful to watch tbh.

[@soaribb32]

Suicide was so fucking ahead of its time. Those synths sound so fresh.

[@nicholasromig5506]

it's funny, on the first album it's just an organ. the synths came later.

[@LividImp]

Still no band quite like them. Maybe Tuxedomoon, or The Screamers are a bit like them, but still very unique.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

Nicholas Romig A main thing is the drum machine on that first album

[@nicholasromig5506]

@@user-wl2xl5hm7k it's SOOO primitive, I love it. I just got a nice red vinyl release of the S/T suicide album, it holds up so well

[@HectorSpector]

@@nicholasromig5506 they used effect pedals(electro harmonix) on the organ. So it sounds a little bit more like a synth.

[@edju9968]

There are. a lot of us who never looked like the referenced "all dressed in black" but were/are drawn to and love the music.

[@jwinchester1320]

edju99 I’m sorry but that is not allowed sir 😂

[@djdrack4681]

Why always wear black when the oppressive darkness of the universe is always about you? It is just masked by a light that turns on for 12-16hrs/day. X)

[@andreasleonlandgren3092]

Yep.

[@davidcreegan952]

In 1988 it was explained to me by an almost 40 year old from the California side of the scene as we were lamenting the death of the world.. Grieving for the misery and hate and greed. The minor chords and dark melodies only reflect how we felt already. For the same reason really that Johnny Cash said he wore black. If someone you deeply respected or loved died... it would be disrespectful to show up in Jean's and sneakers or pastels.

[@nocturnal101ravenous6]

Well frankly as he mentioned early on, Goth and Goth Music are 2 separate actual things Goth Music is a weird mix of styles as he goes through how it formed its sound. Goth itself is more defined by Goethe and I would probably say it would bore most of the crowd and people that would call themselves "Modern Goth" as usually their music is more classic or slight new age in nature with some modern tones and touches, Bat for Lashes Two Suns album is probably about 1 of a few both sets of Goth crowd will agree aligns with the parameters.

[@sgemicha1899]

Respect! I was a club DJ and concert promoter in the alternative scene (PostPunk, Psychedelic, GothicRock, NewWave and SynthPop, etc.) in the 80s to mid 90s. I discovered your channel more by accident. Your videos are very solid and well researched (also the SynthPop, Psychedelic/Metal, Nu-Metal videos are very informative). I knew every artist and title in this video here, it was a true trip into my past, pure nostalgia. . . . Just one exception: The relevance of "Screamin Jay Hawkins" to later PostPunk and Gothic is a fact that I was not aware of. But you're right. It testifies your broad understanding, and how well you're able to link the different things into a well-connected rock-music map relating to each other. Always interesting, and you will learn something new, even if you think you know already. Maybe, you might have time to make a second part covering the era from the mid 80s to the late 90s and beyond (US, UK, Europe). Whatever name you give it - "2nd Wave" of Gothic / NeoFolk / DarkWave / ElectroCore / IndustrialMetal? It was a very innovative and productive decade with well-established but also new bands with their roots/influences in the early punk, gothic, industrial or electronic genre. To name a few: Current 93, Sixth Comm/Death in June, Sol Invictus, Coil, Dead Can Dance, Christian Death/Mephisto Walz, Alien Sex Fiend, Project Pitchfork, Das Ich, Deine Lakaien, Anne Clark, Skinny Puppy, Ministry, Neubauten/Nick Cave, X Mal Deutschland, Rammstein, The Cult, Creaming Jesus, Fear Factory, Fields of the Nephilim, The Mission, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, Chameleons, Secret Discovery, Test Department, Legendary Pink Dots, Type O Negative, 69 Eyes, London After Midnight, Theatre Of Hate, March Violets, New Model Army, Phillip Boa & The Voodooclub, and many others

[@minimansonstar]

That's HOT. 💋

[@cchoi108]

Omg! Your band list is bringing so many memories

[@ryans7146]

Seeing the sisters of Mercy in concert when I was 15 years old was one of my fondest memories, then when I turned 18 Daniel Ash from the Bauhuas was spinning the dungeon at The club at Firestone when Dj keoki was headlining, and Daniel was the nicest guy, he let me come hang out on stage with him it was the best birthday ever.

[@healinggrounds19]

That would be a damn good birthday!!

[@roecocoa]

In between David Bowie and Suicide, I got an ad for a doc about Blind Melon. The seconds before I realized that it *was* an ad, and that "No Rain" was *not* being presented as a watershed moment in the history of goth music, shook me to my core.

[@keirfarnum6811]

I hate that when an ad pops up and you don’t realize it’s an ad because it’s remotely related to the subject of the video; and you don’t realize it’s not part of the video for a few moments, and you’re like, “WTF?!” And THEN you realize it’s an ad.

[@angieormiston8028]

Blind melon is great. Sucks people don’t know it’s not just “the bee 🐝 song”.

[@nicholasromig5506]

as one of your big gothy fans I was so eager to watch this, and you nailed it. great work as always.

[@mv7853]

Nicholas Romig how can you say that when he didn’t even mention 45 grave

[@nicholasromig5506]

@@mv7853 I mean, there are literally thousands of goth bands. he didn't mention much LA deathrock stuff at all. no 45 Grave, no TSOL, no Christian Death. it's fine.

[@napalmstriker5173]

@@nicholasromig5506 it's not fine. Deathrock genre and Rozz William's Christian Death made huge impact on the goth culture more than the emo poser band than my Chemical Romance. Rozz William's needs to be credited more over a lame emo band

[@nicholasromig5506]

@@napalmstriker5173 oh jesus christ relax.

[@kimberlys655]

I was looking for the Deathrock term in the comments. When I was an eighties Horrorpunk, they called themselves Deathrockers, and when the term Goth came out, it almost seemed derogatory, like "oh my gothic"and the so-called Goths being overly dramatic at the time.

[@greenaum]

Literally a history of every musician who ever wore eyeliner. Fantastic.

[@tearsforthedying]

Only 15 minutes in and they are hitting all the right notes. Happy to hear proto gothic bands/artists like Screamin' Jay, Nico, Velvets, Doors and others paid their respects.

[@1m2a3t4t5]

Tears for the Dying About damn time someone credited Jim Morrison for the fact that nearly every band in the 80s crooned their music.

[@billyboy6028]

@@1m2a3t4t5 The Doors made a huge impact in the 80's, it was like 67' all over again. Oops showing my age again.

[@napalmstriker5173]

They forgot about Deathrock and Rozz William's Christian Death influence on goth music!! What a shame

[@pheresy1367]

@@billyboy6028 Show that age!!! Loud and proud... heh heh

[@sr0917]

@@napalmstriker5173 Yes. I was waiting for at least one Christian Death lineup. Valor was pretty dark (Catastrophe Ballet). Visage's Fade to Grey had a little darkness to it as well although they leaned more synth.

[@Hunk3yMunk3y]

You mention how the cure transitioned to goth on "pornography". I would however argue that the full transition began on their album "Faith", with its melancholic lyrics, haunting spacey synth, and bare bones instrumentation. Also to address the 17 seconds comments, It has some gothic undertones, but in general mostly has a post punk sound IMO. (I love all cure albums (Gothic or not), except Wild Mood Swings)

[@ClockwiseCat]

And then they quickly transitioned OUT of goth with psychedelic The Top, and never looked back.

[@JCLauzontv]

The Cure had never really pigeon-holed themselves into any particular genre. Genres and sub genres came about much later as labels tried to cash in whatever was hot. The Cure experimented with different genres, their “ studio sound” is when I lost touch with them... They became very radio friendly...

[@ClockwiseCat]

@@JCLauzontv But that is also pigeonholing them, because in reality while they have made some radio-friendly songs, among those songs on the albums are many non-radio friendly songs, and they have kept reinventing themselves. You really cannot say that many songs on, say, Disintegration are that radio-friendly. They had four huge singles from it, but the rest - the bulk of the album, are NOT radio-friendly. That's the beauty of the Cure, is that they do pop, but they also do a ton of non-pop, and even the pop they create is created on their own terms, and not fitting into tidy definitions of what pop should be. A song like Pictures of You with its extended intro and icily melancholic undertones is as unorthodox a pop song as it can be, and yet it was hugely successful. Friday I'm in Love is probably their most blatant pop song, but on Wish, the album it appears on, there are tons of songs that defy the pop norm. I really don't think you are giving enough credit to the Cure - they are the least pigeonhole-friendly group around, to this day. They made a punishingly bleak album like Pornography, then turned around a made an off-kilter EP (Japanese Whispers), then dark psych-pop The Top, and on and on...and started out very minimalistic, practically inventing post-punk...I mean, The Cure are the most inventive popular band in the world!

[@JCLauzontv]

@@ClockwiseCat While you’ve outlined some great points, I couldn’t help but realize that my falling out of love with The Cure had more to do with my transition from teenage boy to a young man. No longer was I enthralled by legendary bassist Simon Gallup’s baselines. The brooding sounds of early-Cure was what I needed. I became jaded, darker…. they got brighter and poppier…. What had happened to the young boys from that part of Britain who, earlier in their careers, played those haunting melodies? I missed those guys...

[@ClockwiseCat]

@@JCLauzontv Did you not listen to anything past Faith? They have made a TON of dark music. Hello - Bloodflowers? That was 2000. And don't let the sheen of their higher selling albums like Head on the Door, Kiss Me, or Wish fool you - there is plenty of haunting darkness to be found on those albums. That said, nothing really can top Faith... possibly the greatest album in all of history.

[@brottarnacke]

"but producer Arnold Maxim believed that they were too stiff. He brought in ribs and chicken and got everybody drunk" - The world needs more producers like that.

[@sugaryxegnirys]

My teenage angst lead me into Japanese rock, which I found so fascinating. It's only now in my 30s I see the influences of my favorite 80s, 90s, and 00s j-rock bands.

[@juliusseizure324]

Check out (if you already haven’t): Death Side Paintbox G.I.S.M. Forward

[@cocoabuttaflyy]

Same here back in 2003

[@jonsey3645]

I am 60 and am ashamed to admit that I thought that this sort of feeling in music was passe. Thank God I am just out of the loop. Great bands, great documentary and great power in this underappreciated style of expression. Thanks.

[@jonadams8841]

I'm 67, and we live in the most marvelous time in the history of music. Yeah, Gregorian chants and "classical" music are great, but they're such a small part of what we have now.

[@danielfreeman8725]

damn, you just consistently post videos i'm not only interested in, but tell a great story and are well put together. Even when i know a lot about the subject, i still find these fantastic, and there are still some things to be learned.

[@JadeSun7]

I don't have much investment in Goth, but damn if I don't love finding out the history and influences of artistic mediums and their various genres. Music is so rich in this history of borrowed influences and I love anyone who can break it down for me, an outsider peering in, hoping to catch a glimpse of it's pure essence, or whatever it is that lovers of the genre find so fascinating. Thank you.

[@teleavision8819]

You lost me at "I don't have much investment in Goth"

[@beatapozitiva5215]

I knew Nico and hung out with her a few times when she was living in London . She was an amaaaaazing lady. She had more Charisma than anyone Ive met before or since ~Bless 🥰

[@AC-hj9tv]

Me too

[@BeliaLastes]

I would have loved to have hung out with Nico she was charismatic and the way she called Jim Morrison her soul brother because he told her to write poetry and lyrics and play her own music 🎶❤ RIP Beautiful Nico and her son Ari 🙏🏻🌹🕊️❤🖤

[@MeMyselfandBri]

This is easily one of my favourite Music channels on KZbin. Someone who gives clear and detailed information about the origins and beginnings of the subject they’re talking about. Truly great in depth analysis of everything broken down into an insightful and informative manner. The same is in your Punk and Fugazi videos (which are also excellent) applaud you for all your hard work. Best of all, no long drawn out intros or annoying editing or theme music, just straight to the point and precise.

[@JDsHouseofHobbies]

I had an interesting conversation with a goth friend once, on whether Johnny Cash was goth. Besides always being dressed in black, a lot of his songs have a dark subject matter.

[@MonkyMonk729]

That's a good question. He certainly had some goth like qualities way before goth was a thing. His sound maybe not so much, but just his life was so dark and filled with so much pain and hence, as you mentioned, the subject matter of a lot of his songs is very, very dark... and probably in a more real way than a lot of the fiction-inspired darkness of the genre. On the surface, it would seem that nothing is further from goth than "country"... but had Johnny Cash not preceded most of the early predecessors and influences of goth, perhaps his sound would have been pulled in that direction. His cover of NIN's hurt, in his later years no less, is compelling evidence that he was almost certainly not averse to the sound of the goth genre. I mean, he really "got" that song.

[@JDsHouseofHobbies]

@@MonkyMonk729 Well said.

[@PassiveNights]

MonkyMonk729 I’ve been listening to a ton of classic country and so much of it is very depressing

[@dmfeelings]

@@PassiveNights Early Dolly Parton with Porter Waggoner included

[@Wglass90]

@@JDsHouseofHobbies Cash has been labeled many times the sound of "Southern Gothic" which is actually a sub-genre of Gothic Literature that centers around the Darkness of the south. Basically, the music you'd imagine would be featured in a 'dark western'. Alternative band Depeche Mode also used this aesthetic in the video "Personal Jesus". As someone who lives and grew up in the south, there's a lot of Goths here I know that are fans of it. Other musical artists I would recommend that have been branded under the genre are Mark Collie and Hank Williams III.

[@davidantolinezuribe2413]

We all love Lou Reed and Nico; but as far as I know, the man behind the raw-disruption in the Velvet Underground's debut was John Cale. Even further in their next album, White Heat White Light you can see how all the drowning distortion came from his guitars, violin and keyboards. After he left the band, Velvet Underground turned into a different way under the genius of Reed, though VU was more conventional. Cale, on the other hand, produced the first Stooge's album and played a part on the 10-minute song "We will fall", a quite hypnotic and scary tune. A great video abouth subtles evolutions in many rock bands and the birth of Goth

[@sampayne369]

i didn’t even know the john cale mix was a thing till i read this comment, i’m going to go buy that record now

[@ForARide]

Not only does he play a part on We Will Fall, but more importantly he plays that repetitive riff of sleighbelles and piano on I Wanna Be Your Dog, a motiv so many other artists and bands have covered since.

[@botoxpug7802]

Viola, not violin. And Cale played very little, if any, guitar at all back then. Though he did have a very large influence on tunings and irreplaceable chaos in their music.

[@stevendphoto]

I'm fine with JD and Bauhaus being credited as being the first Goth band pioneers, but have always loved THE END by the Doors and never knew why....

[@AC-hj9tv]

Can hear some of the Doors in Echo and the Bunnymen. Isn't that wild?

[@chris55top]

Ian from Echo and the Bunnymen is obsessed with the Doors @@AC-hj9tv

[@joaooliveira4608]

I get so many chills when he started to talk about Nico. Marble Index is one of my favorite's favorite. This album sounds so fucking epic.

[@rumenok]

It's hard to describe how horrific marvelous it is...like prehuman age music or some parallel universe wanderings a feeling of absolute unaware infinity, unknown depths, but despite of eerie sounding it's strangely comfortable and chill, state of mind which creates some metaphisic images of past or struggling of medieval settlers...Nico is pure gothic herself - Cologne-born speaks a lot, the oldest and highest gothic church located in Cologne, all brutall stone punishing and canonade of bombs at second world war time...strongely sure with that background + using heavy drugs as result - opened gates collective intelligence of her ancestors, also meeting soul brother John Cale with his pure feeling of nature of sound and phenomenal ethnic and folk music knowlege, and music instruments skills, fundamental work without any doubt

[@rumenok]

As I already said, Niko is pure goth, even not trying, she did not copy anyone and was at odds with the mainstream, she even liked to be an outsider to some extent, it is not for nothing that one of the most famous sayings about Nico is - she was famous, but not popular

[@csr9183]

I've had that damn beat from Bela Lugosi's Dead stuck in my head since I first heard it in 1993.

[@Mardyfella]

Nice! First band I ever saw. Supporting Magazine at Northampton Town Hall 1980.

[@ltraina3353]

csr I will get that song stuck in my brain for days about twice a year for some reason, glad it’s not just me

[@keirfarnum6811]

csr It’s been stuck in my brain since 1985.

[@starrrzzz2905]

Same.

[@GothDarknessRadio]

It's your theme song.

[@eneswk]

I like how you're not afraid to mention bands (MCR, AFI, any other "modern" bands) when is needed, even tho we all know some people will cry about it. You know your shit. I love this channel.

[@insomniacbritgaming1632]

If you listen to modern Goth, AFI, MCR and others don't even come close to Goth... oh they're Emo by the way lol

[@eneswk]

@@insomniacbritgaming1632 I don’t think those bands are goth, but I don’t think they’re emo either, that’s why I liked that he mentioned them, and I haven’t watched this in a while but I think I remember he named them more in reference to their “aesthetic”, you can see some goth influence in that, like they had their own take on it. So, as I said, I liked that he could see that, in no way those band were some kind of goth renaissance or anything like that.

[@the_nautillus9176]

The so called "old rockers" are a bunch of f*cking p*ssies (had to censor it there as KZbin is censoring freedom of speech. Shame on them.)

[@screwtapee]

@@insomniacbritgaming1632 if you think MCR are emo you're wrong. They're more goth than emo

[@insomniacbritgaming1632]

@@screwtapee not even close to Goth 😂🤣 Billie Eilish is closer to Goth than MCR lol you couldn't name 5 Goth bands if you tried MCR are Emo lol

[@single-shot-video]

Thanks for a great video. Brought back great memories of when I used to sneak my Video gear into venues and record bands in the late '70s and early 80's including bands like Boys Next Door/Birthday Party, the Cramps, Bauhaus, Mission, the Sisters, Southern Death Cult, Gun Club, Bunneymen, Cure, early New Order etc. Couldn't get away with it nowadays. It was a great era that definitely influenced my music taste for the remainder of my life. Such a privilege to have seen these bands.

[@MeathookCinema]

Great video. It’s also great to see you talking about The Banshees. They deserve their own video.

[@LividImp]

Banshees, Bauhaus, Birthday Party, Eno, The Velvets, The Damned, The Cramps are all worthy of their own videos. I'd also say Joy Division, but they did get a video already.

[@Zenboy23]

Nah, I've always thought the Banshees sucess was more due to Siouxie's looks, kinda overrated IMO.

[@MeathookCinema]

Zenarchy Thanks for the laughs! And on a video about Goth. If The Banshees were all image and no musical substance then they wouldn’t have been such darlings of the music critics.

[@MeathookCinema]

Livid Imp I disagree about The Damned. They’re pantomime at best. Also, a lot of the bands you mentioned didn’t have a lengthy career like The Banshees or the diversity and breadth of musical styles like The Banshees and their side projects (The Creatures and The Glove).

[@felichagomez]

I feel like The Chameleons should absolutely be in this video as well. They're one of my favorites; the albums sound like they were made today. Incredible musicians.

[@KissaLintu]

They’re one of the most underrated goth gems.

[@13thcentury]

And Magazine.

[@1m2a3t4t5]

theyre goth? Thought that was just new wave

[@rave5696]

Yes the chameleons!!! Nobody talks about them enough, theyre such a great band

[@bwenjones670]

When I see a title such as this with a photo of Nico, I think these people know their stuff. Great job. R.I.P. Nico Päffgen x

[@altos.sentimientos7374]

this was published on my birthday. I´ve always considered myself to be a goth person but i havent been able to dress like other goth people and thus i feel left aside. I love all types of gothic genres, be it music, literature, art, you name it. I guess i will always feel goth inside, it resonates with my inner soul, my core. I hope one day i can get the clothings, the makeup skills and present myself to the public like what i truly am. This being published in my birthday made me think of my identity. I hope i get to know myself better as time goes on...

[@xvbiffbangpow8579]

dude goth was old by the 80´s

[@hira2357]

so what@@xvbiffbangpow8579

[@alvafairchild13]

Start with the diy and learn to sew and other crafts thrifting is a great way to do gothic clothes without spending a bunch

[@sadgirlthequeen]

I’m goth, but you taught me something new. I never really thought about what came before bands like 45 Grave, Bauhaus and Siouxsie. Thank you 😊

[@leonardodecapitated8390]

Another underrated band that influenced the early goth sound I never see mentioned is Magazine The Light Pours Out of Me (1978) kzbin.info/www/bejne/omXGkHmjaqqgesk

[@luismarioguerrerosanchez4747]

Well, Magazine guitarrist John McGeoch later joined Siouxsie and the Banshees.

[@creepyskulldini581]

Well, if your going to talk about Alice Cooper and Goth then you should mention the song Steven. Now THAT is Alice's ULTIMATE Goth song!

[@megmcguigan3857]

Very well done! You actually 'get it'. I've been into the music for over thirty years now and I'm really happy that somebody actually did their research. I'm especially glad that you included The Doors. A club I used to go to in the very early 90's was having their last night and there were a bunch of us in the parking lot waiting for the late DJ to arrive. A guy started blasting The Doors from his car and we all sang along together to them. It was a bonding experience that I will always remember. The fact that we all knew the songs and lyrics tells you how important they were to the Goth subculture.

[@ZeetZoot]

I love these ‘before (blank)’ videos

[@ZeetZoot]

Also first I guess

[@davidstanton1261]

Thank you, very well done! When I saw early clips of the Cramps and the Birthday Party, I knew someone (you) was finally on the right track: also the VU and Nico references were outstanding! P.S Kids don't neglect the Stooges, Death Trip etc is seminal!!

[@psychoshamrock]

Clan of Xymox needs a mention. Other than that, thank you for Nico. No one mentions her, ever. Good job.

[@blubfishuwaaa]

clan of xymox came after goth, more specifically darkwave

[@coldkissofsteel]

@@blubfishuwaaa I'd still consider darkwave, as part of the goth genre. And CoX started in 1981 so they were smack dab in the middle of the rise of goth. If Suicide is going to be thrown into the goth soup so should Clan of Xymox.

[@duantorruellas716]

Echo and the bunnymen , cocteau twins , dead can dance , sex gang children and clan of xymox Were also bands that were definatly loved and respected by the goth community as well around the early 80s. I'm very grateful for the darkwave bands that are turning out some great music , Bands from other countries, like she past away and double echo . And like all true goths , when I hear these tracks like the swans , love will tear us apart again , as dark as it is tracks like this always make me happy. Lots of post punk and even those who might not be considered punk or goth was adopted by goths . Bands like Johnny thunders and nick cave , even though I dont know any punks then or now who dont like those two I just named lol. And dont forget batcave. Thank you for your work on the early origins and influences of goth.

[@ragnar010162]

Don't forget Bleib Modern from Germany and Mayflower Madame from Norway

[@andchat6241]

Was 'the Batcave ' the 'beginning of the end ?' or 'the end of the beginning?'

[@rachealmurphy6715]

I had an Echo and the Bunnymen jacket. My sister borrowed it and now it's gone

[@13thcentury]

Skeletal Family. Birthday Party. Magazine. Sex Gang Children. Alien Sex Fiend. On every playlist.

[@pryingeyes1551]

Speaking of the Cure and Siouxsie and the Banshees' connection, I'd like to mention the project The Glove, between Robert Smith and Steven Severin of Siouxsie.

[@imperatorfuriosa7061]

Ah! Yes! The "Fat Bob" days!

[@sideswipe1261]

I first heard the Glove album in 1993 as a high school freshman, courtesy of a new friend in a new, surreal school, and fell in love with it! My favorite track is the entrancing “Orgy”, but really every track is phenomenal! Thanks for mentioning them! As a one-off side project recorded by 2 drugged-out crazies watching Blue movies in the dead of night, it’s so easy to miss if you don’t know to look for it! And Smith & Sebring made such a killer super-duo! “Mr. Alphabet Says” is another utterly unique song that only could have been born by those two, in those circumstances and at that specific time. Incredible! Cheers!

[@sylph8005]

I'll take it one step further: Smith was in the Banshees for a time.

[@Mdowdle1969]

Funeral party!! My favourite on that album

[@robertwrightson6455]

Now this is a great documentary, good stable commentary, great clips we haven't seen before and great editing.

[@MickPsyphon]

As someone who has followed goth bands, since the 1970's (before the term 'goth rock' came to be), I genuinely appreciate what this video brings to the table. So many memories were stirred; and some holes were plugged from just prior to my earliest interest in music. Very well done! 😋👍

[@andrewstewart1464]

The dive on this genre's history was so deep, you awoke Cthulu!

[@CurtRowlett]

This is a most excellent overview of the major influences on Goth. I started out listening to rock music in the late 60s and went on to embrace virtually every artist that is mentioned in this video. Thank you for the memory ride!

[@charlottesometimes2020]

Best comprehensive overview of the origins of goth music I’ve ever heard. Bravo. 💕

[@mistersurrealist]

Nico was my guide through my teens and early twenties. Her albums are a religious experience.

[@mayari6071]

she was also racist…

[@stephenpmurphy591]

​@@mayari6071 I'm curious please elaborate on her racism & how I can validate your claims. Thank you.

[@frankfacts6207]

@@mayari6071 no she wasn't

[@demonheadxx4410]

Elaborate?

[@elliottsmithlover199]

@@stephenpmurphy591 she hit a black women in the face with a beer bottle which blinded the woman, and also said “i hate [n words]”

[@singingwolfstaresatyou5504]

Starting with Screaming Jay and you already earned my like and sub.

[@DamnableReverend]

This was a great video essay. I never thought much about the connection between dub/reggae and goth before, but I see it! It even comes back around full circle with an album like Scientist's Rids the World of the Evil Curse of the Vampire and it's hammer horror-inspired tracklist.

[@twatts1523]

Yes, I loved seeing Lee Scratch Perry!

[@DamnableReverend]

@@twatts1523 disco devil!

[@sawtoothmetal]

The distinction you drew between "people who wear black" and make music that people call goth, and what the elements of actual "goth" sound is was really accurate, and drew me in. You really get what makes goth music goth. And it's true, we did not allow people to call us goth back when; that was considered really uncouth. I've accepted the label now, and I'm so grateful to be a part of that world for all these years: 3 decades. The musical roots sounded really accurate to me, however, I would note that there were many influences outside of the musical sphere which had a big impact, namely, literature and cinema and let's face it, for many of us, Halloween. I would also note that Screamin' Jay Hawkins was wild and amazing, and I certainly listened to him long ago, however, his theatrical nod to death was not original to him. Being from the South and having spent time in New Orleans, he would have been exposed to Mardi Gras, which carries on a long tradition of death references and dark humor, which can be traced to Afro-Brazilian carnival and carnival celebrations of the Caribbean Islands, and before that, the expressive celebrations of the African diaspora, brought over from West Africa. At any rate, thanks for documenting this time in music, you do seem to get it. I'm going to watch more of your videos. I love being goth and appreciate it more as I get older, even as I have expanded my interests in music widely. Take care!

[@kicknchickn9794]

Hearing The Doors - The End for the first time, helped me have a psychedelic experience with the help of reefer, no acid.. but the song ultimately enhanced my high and it tripped me out. I remember asking my brother if he had laced the weed. That night i knew Jim Morrison was more than an artist

[@rachealmurphy6715]

That album is amazing. I smile a joint and put on my ear phones and I'm taken to another place

[@ignaciomayorgaalzate5338]

All my favorite bands are in here. I love your channel so much. Greetings from Colombia.

[@bPcrazydave]

I feel you should have included Syd Barrett. He had the look, the sound, a tendency towards crossdressing, and was a huge influence on Bauhaus.

[@djdrack4681]

Punk in general always had the underlying darker lyrics (context wise), it just took Vanian to toss a cape on to show that the two went together.

[@ilonascheel8581]

THANK YOU! My thoughts exactly. SYD BARRETT was a well documented/massive style and sound influence for Bowie, Bolan, Bauhaus, The Damned, the Cure, EVERYONE. SYD BARRETT is THE Godfather of Goth. Period. End of story.

[@keithlaubs1557]

David Harrington and Alison Kraus

[@ouFabLseK-LLangir]

totally barmy, too barmy and too sad an ending. I know F L O Y D helped out...saved him...but Jeezus...

[@MondoLava]

Yeah, I was thinking this same thing. Lucifer Sam seems pretty proto-goth and Bela Lugosi's dead really has an interstellar overdrive feel to it.

[@synthzz9178]

My first musical obsessions were synthpop and goth or as we used to call it in italy : "dark". Then came the internet and i started exploring many genres but soon i got back to my roots and i just cant stop exploring the underground postpunk and industrial scenes of the different countries... to quote my favourite band, i cant escape myself.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

Siouxsie & the Banshees are interesting in how great they were despite how frequently the guitarist changed.

[@waswasere4299]

Budgie - mental drum patterns. Severin - driving bass. Siouxsie - er, being Siouxsie. The guitarists were the icing!

[@joeyroy7864]

I actually prefer her vvork in the creatures, the atmospherics there are magical.

[@youjoker9647]

@dread true Mike Leander doing double drums as far back as 1970.Listen to Gary Glitter :thumping drums and loops and effects on the drums

[@wp6007]

It took them a while to learn how to write a song tho

[@tobiwalker7145]

Thank you for reminding me how good and scary Nico was...so unique no one listened to her. Great to have you recap what I lived thru, to put it together in some sort of evolutionary order. And yes, Bauhaus/Bela Lugosi's Dead brought it all together. The dark lyrics, the thrumming rhythm, the eyeliner. Then Sisters of Mercy exploded and it was everywhere, with me too old to enjoy it, but loving to watch those who did.

[@homersimpson7068]

That was great , do one on the next stage, but don't forget Echo and the Bunnymen.

[@brentwillis260]

Good list it covers most things. Although I would go further back and add Bach's Toccata and Fugue as a starting point. For more modern influences I would add Can and Neu as influences on the first wave of goth/post-punk bunds for their bass and drum-led rhythmic push. Also Pere Ubu (especially their 1975 debut single 30 seconds over Tokyo / Heart of darkness) was a big influence on a lot of first wave goth bands. Although Magazine are more post-punk their first two albums, especially Second Hand Daylight is gothic as.

[@johnbehan1526]

Krautrock does not get it's due around here. There is a straight line between "Vitamin C", Eno and Bauhaus. Still, Suicide get their due, which was a nice surprise.

[@Tess78uk]

Purcell’s “Dido’s Lament” is deliciously goth, as is Gorecki’s “Symphony of Sorrowful Songs”. In Jacobean literature, The Revenger’s Tragedy. The Jacobeans were often just as morbid as the Victorians!

[@JonniePolyester]

That was ace! I can probably still play Bela Lugosi’s dead on the bass! As well as A Forest by the Cure. Kind of remember goth being a thing circa mid 80’s with bands like Sisters of Mercy & Fields of the Nephilim 😊

[@JonniePolyester]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hH-7g6Kse7igqaM

[@フォグマシン]

"he brought in ribs and chicken and got everyone drunk... and we came out with this weird version. i dont even remember making the record." love that. "the end" always makes me long for another mission. oh yes, that "suicide (band) - frankie teardrop" is horrifying. it's sort of true. i listened to it once and couldn't listen to it again.

[@Nominay]

"The End" is not even the most goth sounding track on The Doors first album. That would be "End of the Night".

[@nuggetsontoast]

Never really thought of end of the night being goth until now but u right it kinda is

[@zadiefluxx7140]

the entire first album is vampy even light my fire sounds scary

[@coolpeoplethings]

My favorite one on the album

[@tp8271]

Celebration of the lizard

[@headcutbloodbitch]

@@tp8271 is everybody in?

[@Unhacker]

This was really excellent, and very well researched! It's almost impossible to disagree with the lineage you lay out. Almost everyone who would call themselves Goth owns or has owned almost every album you named. :) I saw Screaming Jay Hawkins at Raji's in Hollywood circa 1985, I had no idea (pre internet) wtf was going on when this dude came out of a coffin with bones through his nose, he really was a showman. I do think Cocteau Twins deserve a little more mention, though as you noted they're sorta "downstream" of Siouxse.

[@vladdrakul7851]

A very very good music history video by someone who knows what they are talking about rather than U tube sites like Looper etc and their gossip crap- Still one thing really bugged me. The EXCLUSION OF LENE LOVICH! (everyone does it but no excuse) Her career destroyed by Corporate power abuse and scrubbed from music history. Even on films on which SHE IS THE MAIN ACT! (Studio 54 re opening film where everyone is mentioned but her! Her videos WERE GOTHIC IN 1979- See 'Birdsong', Whose video and style made by her inspired both the clothing and story line for Francis Ford Coppola's SUPERB 'Bram Stockers Dracula' (My favorite Goth film EVER). Her first two LPs the mother of Goths like Siousxie etc!

[@TheSWolfe]

Yes! And don't forget her appearance on "Picnic Boy" w/The Residents & Snakefinger! Oeuw!

[@killermitchu]

tnx for mentioning her, i didn't know her. will def research her work

[@Wglass90]

Very informative for those who are just getting into the music, and even though this just mainly pertains to the origins of Gothic Rock or Darkwave as musical genres, you can even big deeper and can easily trace the musical origins to Blues, 19th Century Folk music, Classical and opera during the Enlightenment and Victorian eras, which by 18th & 19th Century standards was considered 'dark music' at the time. Mussorgsky's Night On Bald Mountain is a perfect example. What would become what many considered the female 'Gothic aesthetic' within the subculture can also be traced to television stars/characters like Carolyn Jones as Morticia, Vampira, or Lily Munster who were all pre-Elvira who became a cultural phenomenon and icon in the 80s when Gothic Rock was also at its peak. People might have different opinions regarding the topic since it's subjective, but I personally feel there are so many aspects within this love for darkness and the macabre we embrace and are attracted to so much that easily made all of its contributions to the birth of the subculture whether it be literature, music, film, the architecture style, or certain elements of ancient European medieval mythology. It certainly wouldn't exist without any of these things.

[@MaxRamos8]

Goth stuff would be music with melodic or much use of diminished 5ths, and speaking about themes of death, hell, demonic stuff, or depression. It started in the 1800s with Henry Purcell's When I am Laid in Earth. Before that I'm not too sure

[@MaxRamos8]

Goth stuff would be music with melodic or much use of diminished 5ths, and speaking about themes of death, hell, demonic stuff, or depression. It started in the late 1600s with Henry Purcell's When I am Laid in Earth

[@MaxRamos8]

Goth stuff would be music with melodic or much use of diminished 5ths, and speaking about themes of death, hell, demonic stuff, or depression. It started in the late 1600s with Henry Purcell's When I am Laid in Earth

[@MsVanorak]

i should say to anyone just getting into it - get back out again!

[@phant0mdummy]

Imagine how much longer and more informative this video would be if this dude could play, literally, more than 3 second clips of each song... because of CORPORATE KZbin.... youtube must be goth, because it's obsessed with its own deaths - both spiritually and physically.

[@RioRav]

true, but its also not bad to just make a playlist and go listen to the full songs in your own time

[@PK-gi2qh]

Man, this is so well done. So thorough! So be shown in a college music theory class. Very enjoyable.

[@BeefyHits]

Good job. I'm more into Industrial than Goth, and only recently started getting into Goth. You should do one on the origins of Industrial. How its origins music concrete draws from Futurist, and Dada art movements.

[@zoharwolfson8914]

TheyTookOurJobz yes!!!!!!

[@KamenSentaiMetalHero]

That was one of the genres I suggested he do in another comment.

[@DiogenesOfCa]

Look up Einstürzende Neubauten, theses guys are the fathers of industrial.

[@queerchoreography54]

1981menso wrong. You could say Throbbing Gristle is the father unless there’s another before them. I’ll leave it open

[@DiogenesOfCa]

@@queerchoreography54 To me EN took industrial to a new level and should be included as a major influences. You sir have a good day.

[@Lordradost]

I was one back in the day and feel entirely "John Snow" on something that was so dear to me for so long. Massive thanks. Edit: there was allot of *"wave and synth music"* in this genre as well. And then the *metal* overlap. Perhaps this deserves a *part 2* .

[@jmckenzie962]

"A love song to an inflatable doll" Shit, Roxy Music were really ahead of their time there but in like the worst possible way

[@robinchesterfield42]

There's also "Glendora" by Perry Como (yes, really) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qH2ydpmelKqArZo&ab_channel=NANCYFLORESSANTOS which doesn't SOUND goth at all, but it _does_ wax romantically obsessed with someone who turns out to be a shop-front mannequin. "I wanna see more of you" is kind of a spicy lyric for 1956, gotta say.

[@steventucker8444]

Dude, listen to the whole album. Or at least what was the A side of the LP back when...It's called "For Your Pleasure." Don't listen one song at a time - do the whole A side, consider it like a classical symphony in structure. Don't know your age, but LPs, when done right, were designed to move through the entire side of the album, pulling you along. This one is genius. In Every Dream Home A Heartache is penultimate on the A side. It is F'ing amazing

[@shoepixie]

@@steventucker8444 For Your Pleasure is a listening experience like nothing else. Nothing has ever quite captured the idea of decadence so well musically, I think. I love it.

[@k1ttyF158er]

Not sure what you mean by "worst possible way". . . They certainly found a sound of their own. But they weren't alone for the time. In fact, Ferry auditioned to sing for King Crimson, and though they didn't want him for their band, they helped Roxy get a record deal later down the line..... Basically, there were a LOT of bands experimenting with different styles of music & fashion at the time. Crimson, Roxy, Soft Machine, Floyd, Bowie were all experimenting to jam lots of sounds & music styles together. All those bands would pull in Rock music, Garage rock, Jazz and even Classical into their music. They all found their niche by trying to be original in some way. (Unlike EVERY band today it seems).... So bands like Bauhaus, Joy Division, Cure, Throbbing Gristle etc.. were all just experimenting. - Bauhaus has just as much Jazz & Raggae in their music as it has poetry and sound effects...Music back then was one big soup bowl. Everything crossed over and blended and new near stuff happened all the time. Labels like Goth, Rock, Jazz, Experimental were kinda Bullsh1t so that reviwers and promoters could try to make money off them. No band I've ever been in has only played ONE style of music. Check out Soft Machine. 1971 ... Punk was about to happen. Floyd, Crimson, Yes, Genesis were all kicking about.. Roxy is sorta a blend of those big influences. Soft Machine: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoSppZKjm9h4adk

[@davidbanan.]

@@k1ttyF158er I'm like 99% sure hes refering to The Lyric

[@darreneffle4891]

Born in 69 i was introduced to early "goth" by an older sister.im 52 yrs old now still listen to these bands daily,.my sister is gone but i keep the flame burning for her , me , and the one goth that doesn't know they are goth..

[@thermionic1234567]

“In Every Dream Home, A Heartache” may be my favorite Roxy Music song. Glad you included it!

[@franciscoh.j8182]

This video is amazing, the only flaw in it is not pointing out at the end the real impactful and celebrated modern goth acts such as She Past Away, Lebanon Hanover and Drab Majesty. Those are the real deal in goth music nowadays

[@chrystals.4376]

They’re not proto goth so contemporary acts aren’t the point of the video.

[@franciscoh.j8182]

@@chrystals.4376 in the end of the video they do try pointing out what would be contemporary Goth acts, and that's where they failed to really address relevant contemporary Goth bands, instead they point out contemporary alternative and indie acts such as Creeper and Jenny Hval and say that's how goth existis today, which is just wrong.

[@-SuperCraigIsGay-]

THANK YOU. Hated the modern examples used in this video, they were all generic-sounding rock artists, who just kind of looked the part, but don't at all sound the part.

[@davidpggarrett]

Siouxsie Sioux gets my vote here. Like me, she's originally from the Bromley area. Her work with the late Scottish guitarist John McGeogh is fascinating.

[@manchesterkid8639]

David Garrett they were punks though , not goth , if you were to ask them

[@davidpggarrett]

@@manchesterkid8639 yep, that's right. (I didn't mean that they were goths, just that I rate them). They were punks and not punks too, probably what you'd classify as post-punks. Along with H.G. Wells, Charles Darwin, Bowie and Billy Idol, I'm proud to say that they have a connection with my home town. I always hear a lot of the Banshees sound in Joy Division, and (for good reason) in the Cure.

[@manchesterkid8639]

David Garrett yes. John once described himself as a punk rocker in a conversation , which is why I mentioned it.

[@carljules3123]

@@manchesterkid8639 punk at heart

[@davidpggarrett]

@@manchesterkid8639 he was such an inventive player, like an Andy Summers

[@reddye2725]

I was never one to dress the part but I was super into this music in my youth. You did a great job. Being from Southern California I can tell you bands like Kommunity FK, TSOL, & Christian Death made a huge impact. Rikk Agnew’s sound was powerful & haunting. Only Theater of Pain is one of the best “Goth” albums ever recorded IMO.

[@solinvictus39]

I agree. Bauhaus or the Cure didn't have the same impact on me as the first Christian Death album. When I first heard it in the late 1980s I was blown away by its darkness and psychedelic feel. Nothing was like it then or afterwards.

[@tunguskalumberjack9987]

Agreed- Only Theater Of Pain is excellent, a bona fide “Cobweb Classic”, as me and my ex-gf in the ’90s would have called it.

[@victoriarotter]

Kommunity FK definitely! 💜😻🖤

[@gabrielhaas]

Agreed. I was obsessed with all things Rozz after discovering OTOP and then hearing Catastrophe Ballet. I bought all of the Premature Ejaculation and Shadow Project stuff too, even though it wasn't nearly as good as CD. Kommunity FK was awesome and London After Midnight in the beginning. Screams For Tina's 1st album....there was a lot of good stuff coming out at that time.

[@13thcentury]

I was a full goth. Long velvet coat, frilly black shirts. Black jeans. Flaming long red hair and black eye liner. I'm a guy. Best years of my life.

[@KamenSentaiMetalHero]

There's also Van Der Graaf Generator, they're a prog band that have been noted as an influence on some goth bands due to their dark and gloomy lyrics that was a direct contrast from the whimsical and utopian lyricism of most prog rock bands at the time(barring Pink Floyd and King Crimson) and lead vocalist Peter Hammel's singing style was described as a male version of Nico.

[@deathmetaldouglas69]

VDGG were great and all but I could also say Peter Gabriel from 1972 on was kind of goth also.

[@thebarbaryghostsf]

Yes, Peter Hammel is to me the proto-Goth Rock vocalist. Super dramatic. Scott Walker and Leonard Cohen are others I often think influenced the later Goth-Rock vocal styles.

[@gilwood7530]

Hammills solo stuff is pretty amazing stuff too.

[@maxinemckenzie5765]

Hey! Yeah! So true...Van Der Graaf Generator make most so called Goth Bands sound like The Monkeys. "Darkness 11/11", "White Hammer","A Louse is not a Home","In the Black Room","A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers", "Killer", and the whole Double Live Album from 78 "Vital"...and a hundred others. Hammill wrote lots of songs about Psychotic States and bad Trips on his Solo albums too. A Genius. Hugh Banton's Gothic Organ work.

[@arthurr.r.lucasspublicdoma5621]

Van Der Graaf Generator is one of my favorite prog rock bands.

[@derrickboess5886]

in context of reaching way back to find all the seedlings that eventually sprouted goth, i think leonard cohens first two albums are notable, "the stranger" came to mind when i started thinking in that context after seeing you included nico as one of those seedlings

[@jannyrcobs]

Good point, but I would have said the first albums -- Songs Of Love And Hate has long been a favourite of a lot of goth- and emo-types.

[@jaelienehoung8181]

I really appreciate you mentioning Nico, she’s honestly so underrated

[@joejones9520]

not under-rated in my world...

[@carljules3123]

@@joejones9520 not in mine either, for the record, she was the subject of a biopic that got rave reviews on both sides of the atlantic a couple of years ago.

[@marthavmuffin]

Thanks for the great piece; Took me back to the early days of seeing Roxie Music, Iggy, Siousxie, The Cure and SIsters of Mercy in small venues.

[@gardenboydon]

It gives me so much pleasure spending an evening watching music documentaries. Thank you 🙏

[@jamesscottvideos]

"The Doors" and "The Velvet Underground And Nico" - two of the greatest albums of modern popular music ever made. And Siouxsie's best album is easily The Scream.

[@josephcopeland5041]

Nah, nah. Juju or Dreamhouse are much more consistent.

[@Maddysublime]

Agreed

[@raymondswitser1]

I prefer "Join Hands"

[@luismarioguerrerosanchez4747]

To be honest Siouxsie and the Banshees had a very strong output. The Scream, Kaleidoscope, Juju, A Kiss on the Dreamhouse, Hyaena, Tinderbox and Peeshow are all masterpieces.

[@refuzed74]

What an insightful video. I love 98% of the bands on here.

[@LividImp]

Just curious, which ones did you not like?

[@outsidethepyramid]

@@LividImp What 2% we wonder