Why Rust is NOT a Passing Fad...

[@juanantonionavarrojimenez2966]

One of the most important feature of Rust is that it does not come from Google.

[@talwaar007]

Lol. Hell yeah!

[@lufenmartofilia5804]

Or worse, microsoft 😂

[@kylek3822]

Reminds me of the people who jumped off the unix train cause it came from bell labs.

[@stanrock8015]

🤦‍♂️google and m$ are major backers of rust foundation

[@sergsergesrgergseg]

you don't want your programming language to be backed by a billion dollar company with practically infinite resources?

[@nickeldan]

I'm a devoted C developer and for a while my reply to Rust was "Just be a better programmer and don't write unsafe code". However, I've come to realize how naive that sentiment is. I'm not ditching C as 1) it's quite ubituitous and 2) Rust's runtime bloat bothers me but I feel that it's time I added Rust to my skillset.

[@nickeldan]

I said, "I'm not ditching C".

[@mrpocock]

I've done some bare metal rust with no runtime. It was a nice experience. To be honest, compared to python, java, js and friends, the size of the runtime is not big.

[@nickeldan]

@@mrpocock Ah, I didn't know that was a thing.

[@MrTrollland]

What do you consider to be runtime bloat? What is there other than preferring panics over aborts

[@mrpocock]

@@MrTrollland I think if you don't throw any of the relevant optimisation switches, a stand-alone rust "hello world" binary will be larger than the corresponding c binary. It isn't relevant on most modern hardware, and most programs aren't so small that the overhead is a meaningful proportion of the binary size in any case. This isn't really my specialist subject, so I'll defer to people who know this stuff.

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

Having worked with C and and C++ for decades and other complied languages on occasion I really don't understand how anyone can describe Rust as ugly. As I took my first steps with Rust I was happily surprised it fixed a lot of ugliness of C and C++.

[@llothar68]

Because you don't need to use the ugly side of C++ too much if you just write application level code. The insanity of C++ comes when you want to write the fastest possible general purpose library.

[@HonsHon]

C is still nice imo. It really does have its place. C++ on the otherhand (or, at least modern C++) is scary.

[@HonsHon]

​@@llothar68 This is probably true.

[@atheistbushman]

I have always found the C syntax ugly and the order of function signatures the wrong way round. And I always hated the extra () parenthesis with if statements C++, int divide(int a, int b) { if (b == 0) { throw std::runtime_error("division by zero"); } return a / b; } Rust: fn divide(a: i32, b: i32) -> Result { if b == 0 { return Err(String::from("division by zero")); } Ok(a / b) }

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

@michelnielsen2855 Ah yes, Lisp is famously elegant and for having a minimal syntax and semantics. Is it pleasant to look at? Well, all those braces play havoc with my visual cortex, like looking at some optical illusions. Little chance of any meaning there making it through to my consciousness. Seems I need some syntax to anchor things on.

[@MisterRedFox]

I write quite complex software for mission control and avionics in C++. I've never felt like C++ was a problem here since we use smart pointers and unit test coverage. The bottleneck has always been on the developer side to avoid bugs that can be written in any language. There is an absolute limit to how much a language can help speed up development. I am open to new ideas though on how to better write low latency asynchronous multi-device systems.

[@meyou118]

i luv rust and ive been programming for 40+ years

[@fabienpenso]

30y long pro coder here. And love it as well.

[@manoharmeka999]

In what use cases?

[@fabienpenso]

@jazzycoder I got job offers every week, without asking, at higher pay I've never had in my career. But you do you.

[@fabienpenso]

@jazzycoder check Helsing, Kraken, Microsoft, Android, Amoamo they all hire Rust devs. That’s only a few examples.

[@XoLucyna]

lmao rust was developed only 18 years ago, its still in its early stage

[@doomguy6296]

Rust for web is a bit general term. Rust for backend is great for best througput, minimalist containers , security and even simplicity. How come security and simplictly? Because Rust forces you not to skip the edge cases and keep your code consistent (you may have other language who also allow that. Rust is one of them), and simplicty, because it's damn easy and minimalist to set up. No bloat software and heavy dependencies to carry around. Just compile with cargo. Don't bother with dependencies

[@gadgetboyplaysmc]

Are you saying you're building Rust backends without dependencies in cargo toml. Are you insane.

[@gamechannel1271]

Rolling your own code for everything is not recommended unless it is just a learning process. You are not some coding superstar. Projects like Axum will be better implemented from a security and performance perspective than what you come up with on your own.

[@doomguy6296]

@@gadgetboyplaysmc No. I mean the depedencies are part of your binary once compiled and optimized. You are not depended on external dependencies to run the executable. I propably should have been clearer about it.

[@beno3353]

If you rewrite software from language X to Y it will always be better because now you have hindsight and are able to do the much needed refactoring to have a more stable code base.

[@liquidmobius]

As one of those people who used to hate Rust (for no particular reason I might add), I'm now a convert. C/C++ are still great for teaching, but no longer belong in critical production software, and you could certainly argue in any production software in general. The diehard C/C++ crowd will wake up one day and realize that the industry has passed them by. Only then will they say, I was wrong, Rust isn't just a fad.

[@TehKarmalizer]

Not sure if serious or trolling…

[@Justin-wj4yc]

@@TehKarmalizer c++ is crusty af lmao

[@khatdubell]

That's a long winded way of saying you write poor quality code.

[@RustIsWinning]

@@khatdubell Says the guy who was responsible for several 0days 😂

[@MrChelovek68]

Tell about that shit microsoft and windows nt

[@kyrregjerstad]

Different developer jobs in my area: C#: 4410 Typescript: 4300 Golang: 376 Rust: 17

[@Rohitweasley]

I am sure the RUST jobs will be far more interesting than the C# ones.

[@Polynuttery]

What were you expecting? Magic? I woke up this morning and the entire world had magically switched to Rust while I slept?

[@kyrregjerstad]

@@Polynuttery why do you think i'm expecting anything? simply stating a fact

[@IdgaradLyracant]

As someone who has to work with more than 2000+ CARID worth of apps and over a thousand developers I will tell you plainly, the reason in your example there are 4410 C# developers is because 3000 of them are fixing the other 1410 developers mistakes. Not joking the proportion of developers tracks linear with the number of defects logged. Not journeys, sprints, epics, etc... defects logged. The more developers, the more defects.

[@tester2971]

How many devs fluent in C# and Typescript are in comparison with Rust? What is the skill required for each position? In my community, there were only three positions for C developers. I got three interviews and got hired. For JavaScript on the other hand, after 50 tries, nobody replied. These statistics are utterly useless.

[@aucusticguitar8069]

I feel like learning Rust has improved my C++ code safety tremendously. My ptsd from borrow checker warfare paid off.

[@talwaar007]

Been coding Java ever since the first release way back in late 1995. Have decided to learn Rust. Wish me luck!

[@Ubben1999]

@@curio78What do you mean lack of IDE integration? Rust’s language server is excellent, and Jetbrains has RustRover.

[@jacekkurlit8403]

I'm java dev that really enjoys rust I think you will find it many similarities with modern java (like optionals and iterators) much more than with go

[@alexandervantrijffel9435]

You wouldn't choose Rust to build websites? I'm building multiple web apps with micro frontends where most of the micro frontends are served by Rust. It's a delight to enjoy the benefits from Rust like functional programming, correctness guarantees and the limited need for debugging also for web apps..

[@lhd7105]

yeah that's the great thing about micro frontends rite? you could rapid prototype in something and then when the dust has settled just that struggling (performance wise) web section/web component could be re-written in something like Rust. So Tier 1 engineers could be golang/Ruby/Python whatever.. Tier 2 engineers could be Tier 1 + Rust.. you got the right idea dawg Notice the video talks about all these big companies _rewriting_ something into Rust.. the video hasn't been really talking about community showcases of green field codes written in Rust.. even the speaker of the video talks about something like web development wouldn't be suitable for Rust--and guess what, web sites are all about tumultuous prototyping--changing of minds--Rust would probably struggle with that. If a dev can wrap their smol and smooth brain around Rust, for sure they can fit another silly programming language in their smooth and smol brain--there are a lot of great languages for web--they can all co-exist. And then when the rapid prototyping is over, and you want to stick the middle finger at the NSAs CCP Armys and FSBs of the world--rewrite the fk'r in Rust. LogLog, one of the most famous gaming dev houses known for giving Rust a honest try--also decided recently that Rust really sucks for them when it comes to rapid prototyping--it was just too much of a struggle. They might be going back to csharp, this is their post mortem: loglog(dot)games/blog/leaving-rust-gamedev/

[@travistarp7466]

@@lhd7105 engineers are generally more expensive than infrastructure, in many cases its dumb to spend more time writing code to save a few pennys on infa cost.

[@germangonzalez7185]

I know right? What stack do you use? I use RSTY and it's working perfectly and its amazing for web dev.

[@SasiKumar-no8mx]

Regardless of whether it is safe or unsafe, Rust's type system is far better than that of any mainstream language you can name (be it C, C++, Java, or Python).

[@haomakk]

so true. I've never felt that Rust's structs, enums, and traits were holding me back, rather, it's always been quite straightforward to model my architecture with them

[@gamechannel1271]

That is because, as higher level languages like python and JavaScript have shown, all you need to model anything complex is arrays and hash maps.

[@laticalamonzi2814]

Accepting Rust is like the olives situation. When you first taste them canned, you get the feeling that it's unnecessary, that you can do without it, and certainly this flavor is clearly specific to give it preference. However, when you do taste them, it will take some time to realize that they are exactly what you have been missing for happiness, and after that you will never part with them again.

[@j-p-d-e-v]

Even though Im having a hard time in Rust. As I learn more, Im loving it more.

[@raidensama1511]

Stick with it and don’t put yourself on any time deadline. Just do better than you did yesterday.

[@smarterlife7331]

And you will continue to love it even more if you stick around.

[@cheako91155]

I used to use perl for what I assume were tasks ppl used python, then I tried combining everything I'd do in C with everything I'd do in perl into everything I do in rust... and I'm fine with just the one now, a %50 reduction in things to know how to do.

[@artxiom]

Rust is insanely good - but you need lot's of years of programming experience to appreciate what it's actually doing. I mean it was influenced by a wild mix of languages, like OCaml, C++ and Haskell. It's not easy to explain the "why" to people that just want to write easy/fast code, but once you get it you not only will write better code in Rust but in pretty much every other language.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

As with many things, to appreciate it you need to understand what were the problems that motivated its creation. If you have no idea then it will seem odd and unnecessarily complicated.

[@ruslanvs]

"once you get it you not only will write better code in Rust but in pretty much every other language" - exactly what I felt having figured Rust a bit.

Only 2.

[@germangonzalez7185]

I don't know about you, but how Rust handles Ownership and Borrowing is one of those huge milestones in technology (I don't know how to phrase it). I mean it is up there with the JVM when it was created back in the day.

[@stroudcuster4483]

I just started learning Rust. Previous experience goes back to teletypes and paper tape. Ive done Java powered web back end projects and coded a few personal projects in Python. Im reasonably familiar with C++. I find the quality of Rust's documentation very good and its compiler messages very specific. This makes it an easy language to actually learn to use. As as a long term fan of OOP, I actually like the way Rust delinks data and functionally. I havent done anything big yet, so i havent had to deal with the influence of the borrow checker on design issues.

[@gamechannel1271]

The borrow checker makes it so that you have to be very intentional about where data is stored. I have many times created structs I expected to be able to hold borrowed references, but had to change them to hold the actual data due to new use cases being discovered.

[@stroudcuster4483]

@gamechannel1271 thanks for the advice!

[@bruceritchie7613]

It's amazing to me the number of comments on videos like this one or comments on posts about rust that scream opinions that hardly seemed based in reality. Rust isn't perfect for sure but from my experience it's an improvement over what came before it. I feel that Rust will actually shine in the backend services space going forward as it's a good alternative to GC based languages.

[@john_yeager]

i am thinking starting learning it, i am currently web dev js C# SQL, any ideas what sectors can u work with rust? os level? like windows programs? any other areas? i try to remain developer in this AI era that slowly killing devs

[@timwhite1783]

For the record I love Rust and use it in a lot of my side projects. That being said it feels like I just had shit shoveled into my ears. So many of those metrics sound incredibly stupid. How do you even measure a 2x improvement in productivity? When you say you re-wrote the Go application in Rust and it was faster were benchmarks done? If so what specifically was benchmarked and what method was used? These things are relevant. Also when you say the team took just as much time to write it was it the same team? It's so much easier to write a program to solve a problem you've already solved. If I hired a team to write the same program twice in Java I would expect the second attempt to be faster to write and of higher quality than the first, because the team has learned from their prior mistakes.

[@antoniomartinez1799]

The problem is that some people take rust like a religion and behave like fanatics.

[@smoked-old-fashioned-hh7lo]

javascript is by far worse but rust does have some toxic people

[@travistarp7466]

@@smoked-old-fashioned-hh7lo how is js worse, i see the opposite were everyone hates on js

[@smoked-old-fashioned-hh7lo]

@@travistarp7466 have you not seen js framework culture before? plus, i don't know how many times i've seen js developers push the idea that js/ts is the best language and that it should be used everywhere for everything.

[@deckard5pegasus673]

Most of the fanatics are trolls, or bots. There is big backing behind it for some reason. Also the government is pushing Rust. And if the government is pushing it, I automatically don't trust it.

[@RustIsWinning]

@@deckard5pegasus673 True. I made a bot that actually detects 🤡comments and then responds to them.

[@DimitriSabadie]

“Zig is great” yeah, Zig doesn’t even catch UAF at either compile-time or even runtime despite their concept of “Runtime Safety”, while even gcc does catch that at compile time (try returning a reference to a local variable in a function). Zig is nicher than any niche language.

[@Polynuttery]

Does Zig work for embedded?

[@salim444]

​@@Polynutterythere is zig embedded but you should check the support to see if it is supported for your mcu. For now rust has a better support

[@gustavojoaquin_arch]

No, zig is best that C

[@luisgentil]

I'm trying to wrap my head around Rust. It's kind of intimidating at first, lots of different rules and I'm constantly in edge about what is or isn't allowed. Then your get a little better understanding and the compiler is like "hey this won't compile because this value doesn't have the copy trait and this function here took ownership of it. If you add a borrow operator here it should fix the problem." And then the code compiles and I get this weird feeling like I'm having fun.

[@elirane85]

I think the main thing that makes Rust awesome is that it might be harder to get your code to compile then c/c++, but once it does, it's much harder to shoot yourself in the foot

[@kylek3822]

Rust has been around for almost 20 years and firefox is still mostly c. Rust isn't going to fail; Rust has already failed.

[@kylek3822]

Using microsoft and google as bellwethers hilarious as it's clear that all the adults have left the room. These companies focus on advertising, not programming.

[@Ptr-NG]

The funny thing some rusties talk about the ugliness of C... Lord!!

[@lucasteo5015]

I'm a junior kotlin backend dev, I'm really fascinated by kotlin immutability, thus I concluded that I will like rust and I am going learning it, in fact I'm actually half way through their rust book, the language is actually not that bad. yes, there exist some hard to grasp concepts but I think good programmer can overcome that.

[@maximus1172]

I love rust and was learning it but paused it for the moment and now I am learning Kotlin for job reasons. Will resume with when I am in a more stable position

[@Happyduderawr]

I love rust because I code in python and the rust behind all the new libraries makes my data processing code significantly faster. So, I appreciate it even though I've never used it.

[@hm_kaiser]

Loving rust since 2018. I've coded various things including embedded and emulators, system libs and rest apis. Best ecosystem and community.

[@kieransweeden]

Great video! The only minor thing I’d add is that I’ve seen a growing (albeit minor) adoption of Rust in the backend development space. Of course that’s anecdotal so take it with a pinch of salt. Additionally on a recent episode of the Rustacean Station podcast, an IntelliJ representative working on RustRover expressed that the sector of Rust development they’ve (IntelliJ) seen more growth and expansion in is in backend applications, which is pretty neat! Again this is all minor in the grander context of web development, just something worth noting.

[@bruceritchie7613]

It's how I got I to Rust - rewriting a spark pipeline into one based on DataFusion which is Rust based.

[@cagecurrent]

Pretty new to Rust, but I love it... and especially I dig Cargo and the rust-analyser plugin for VS Code.

[@kevincodes674]

Yes, I like Rust very much. Using it currently to build a website for a university project. I completely understand what you mean when you say there are easier tools for the job lol. I could build the backend much faster with Django, but where's the fun in that

[@richhenry8004]

It's basically the inverse of the argument against Python. Python is a slow, sloppy mess but people get stuff done with it and quickly. And you can't make a valid argument against that language if you are going to dismiss that productivity and accessibility out of hand. Or rather you can, but people are going to use it anyways, so what good were your criticisms in the first place? In the same vein, Rust is a fast, safe systems language. But you don't get to ignore the ugliness of that lifetime syntax and the productivity costs that come with it. And what good does your cheerleading do if people don't reach for Rust when they write a new application? Rust gets used when the benefits outweigh the pain. And for many, many applications it will never reach that threshold.

[@richhenry8004]

@@RustIsWinning Ugliest syntax in modern use.

[@richhenry8004]

@@RustIsWinning I am abstracting an approach to judging both languages objectively. Focusing on the negatives of one and the positives of the other is not an objective comparison. And the lifetime syntax is cancer.

[@richhenry8004]

@@RustIsWinning Wrote my first program in BASIC on a TI-99/4a about 40 years ago. And since then you can't name a language I havent tried, including a foray into Rust. Your posts reek of insecurity. You should just stop commenting on videos as you are more likely to set Rust back in adoption than help it.

[@konoko-o3o]

I don´t code in rust, but the uv package manager for Python is so freaking good to manage projects, never go back to poetry or pip.

[@dokkenrox]

I'm very skeptical of the claim from Chocolate Factory that "there's no loss in productivity when moving from Go to Rust".

[@DimitriSabadie]

I think it needs refinements. If you hire a team of people completely fluent with Rust, then yeah, it’s very likely they will even be more productive. Less occasions to introduce memory bugs, etc. If you require a Go team to learn Rust, then you’ll have to pay a (non-neglible) ramp-up time.

[@dokkenrox]

@@DimitriSabadie Even if you take away the learning curve, I think that Go is better optimized for productivity. It's simple, it compiles quickly and it manages memory automatically. Rust is better optimized for efficiency and correctness. I think it's a trade-off, and one of the things being traded is likely productivity. I would be interested to hear the finding from a study that was a bit more rigorous, with a larger sample size, and that included the refinements you mention.

[@EugeneBos]

​@@dokkenroxI already got shit with memory in both rust and go, so none of them can manage it automatically 😂

[@benjamindrexler9635]

I think when the praises of Rust stop focusing on things rewritten in Rust and start focusing on the new things developed in Rust a lot of the opposition will go away.

[@usercommon1]

> Rust syntax is kinda ugly meanwhile template

[@rubyciide5542]

💀

[@gamechannel1271]

If you're used to typescript the rust syntax is pretty close.

[@EhdrianEh]

I'm trying to introduce rust libraries into our company's python APIs where speed matters, and introducing AWS lambdas in rust. I figure that these small codebases and quick wins will find adoption within the company and slowly build a skilled labor pool within the company.

[@alst4817]

I’ve never tried rust, so don’t jump on me please! Can you answer this question: what is rust for? Seems pretty complicated to write well, so what do we get for this large mental exertion? We get memory safety, together with speeds similar to C++. So what we’re looking for is a use case where c/c++ is currently used, but where safety is important. Well, embedded systems is a natural use case, but a rust binary is waaay bigger than C, so it’s just not going to be used anywhere that space is a problem. So we’re moving into C++ territory here: compute heavy desktop applications, OS. Games seems to be not ideal either as all the games developers I’ve heard on this say it’s too complicated to write, annoying to add new features to a finished product. Am I wrong? Open to criticism, as I say I haven’t written much in it.

[@Rudxain]

> pretty complicated to write well For idiomatic code, yes. But for non-idiomatic code, you can get pretty far by abusing `.clone()`. But at that point I'd recommend smart-pointers, such as: `Arc`, `Cow`, `RefCell`, etc... > waaay bigger than C Cargo's default release-mode `rustc` flags are bad, that's why binaries are big. You have to enable LTO, single-thread (`codegen-units = 1`), strip all debug data, and `panic = abort`. Of course, that's ignoring `opt-level = "s"` which should only be used if you want to sacrifice speed. If you want to go further, you can avoid static-linking to `std` (or any other crate), and prefer linking to dynamic-libraries via FFI (`unsafe` if you don't use a safe wrapper) > annoying to add new features to a finished product This is somewhat true. It's why Rust isn't recommended for startups, as requirements can change fast. If you already know most of what you'll need, Rust is perfect

[@JohnLee-bf2ux]

What about rust for automation ?

[@r2com641]

Let’s face facts: 1) if I am writing low level program which interfaces memory and registers or which is metal level embedded layer, I can’t use regular borrow checker anymore - correct? I have to use “unsafe” block inside which most of those rust checks are not done anymore 2) we need language which would be f-ing SIMPLE, we don’t want bloated c++ where specification together with std lib is 1800 A4 papers. But rust is now getting bloated and is almost as hard as c++ (harder) 3) we don’t want macros! At least macros in rust are not as bad and disastrous as in c c++ but they are overtly complex and not needed That is why I think Zig is a better way to go. What Rust achieved is a big hype, and that government directives don’t determine how successful language will be in future. They did same thing promoting Ada many years ago and where is now Ada? Not being used much Thankfully we got Zig and Odin to choose from and we are not forced to use language with identity problems

[@TravisMedia]

Great to hear your reasoning and perspective.

[@stendeter623]

I feel like zig has a great future, but they need to put some more work in

[@r2com641]

@@stendeter623 and what do you think they are doing? Not working hard enough or what? I see designer himself on chats responding to tech questions and working as late as by 1:30am every day including weekends.

[@oserodal2702]

That's just untrue, the borrow checker still exists even in unsafe contexts (You can't pass around references willy-nilly for example). However, you can trivially sneak past the borrow checker with dereferencing a pointer, `UnsafeCell`, `std::mem::transmute` (please don't do this one, specifically), etc.,

[@MrTrollland]

I’m tired of people pretending that unsafe throws out all safety guarantees out the window. That’s not true. There’s 5 specific things unsafe lets you do: call unsafe methods, implement unsafe traits, use mutable static variables, access union members and dereference raw pointers. That’s it. Borrow checker still works, you still need to exhaustively match an enum, there’s still bounds checking on data structures, etc.

[@kevinchadwick8993]

Ada is the safest of those memory safe languages and not Rust and is just as fast. Easier to use too including Sparks borrow checking with memory leak prevention.

[@thunkin-ai]

aesthetics are more important than speed?

[@sophieedel6324]

Rust makes no sense. Rust is very vulnerable to memory leaks. The checker overhead will often result in a bigger memory footprint and code considerably slower than C. Due to the complex syntax you waste a lot of time (btw, many international users can't even find those symbols on their keyboard, no one seems to realize this because no one field tests this language). A lot of time is wasted due to the slow compile time too. Time that would be better spent in C/C++ where IDE tools are better at catching memory issues than Rust can.

[@logicaestrex2278]

I didnt realize that wow. I like go and nim but I never knew rust had so many problems

[@akashv678]

Wrong

[@logicaestrex2278]

@@akashv678 elaborate

[@yousefsaddeek]

just a side unimportant question ⁉️ do you have a brain 🧠 ?

[@logicaestrex2278]

@@yousefsaddeek do you have anything to contribute other than more gaslighting about rust being a perfect language?

[@kelownatechkid]

`uv` literally changed my programming life lol. Some extremely wacky package situations would take pip an hour to resolve but uv does it in under 2 seconds...

[@olafschluter706]

My experience with Rust after putting some month into learning it: the learning curve is more challenging, but manageable. You may spend more time writing code, but you will almost never be in the need to debug the code, once it got accepted by the compiler, which results in a faster development overall. Rust inspires you to do more FP-like coding. Eventually thinking like the borrow checker becomes natural. Iterators in Rust are extremely powerful and fast. Performance of Rust equals that of C and C++. Multithreading isn't scary anymore. And the trait concept is working surprisingly well. Adding features to foreign types is super-easy in Rust. On the job I am working with legacy C code implementing an ipsec vpn stack in my current project. I do not have the budget and time to rewrite any part of that stack in Rust, but I would love to, and I noticed that learning Rust improved my understanding of multi-threading, which helped on occasions debugging the C code.

[@VincentGroenewold]

I'm assuming that one of the reasons Rust development isn't a huge impact in productivity, is because the programmers are different from those used to Go and other languages. They are likely just more versed in complex, detailed languages and usually these are picked because those developers like the complexity and the language, while other languages are just easier and this created developers that are less versed in general.

[@kaihusravnajmiddinov5413]

??

[@ResidentBio]

The hardest part of software engineering is make something look simple. Don't confuse engineering level to dealing the ugly syntax rust has.

[@AdilKhan-vf2es]

You give good advice but each week you tell us to learn something new. This takes weeks of effort. How are you doing this while maintaining a job?

[@TravisMedia]

Did I say to learn Rust in this video?

[@manny27392]

You do not need to know everything in order to have a job in IT. This video is more of an expression of his passion for IT rather than a full course for future jobseekers.

[@ArcWeltraumpert]

ruff is also written using rust.

[@jamesschmames6416]

I can't believe you didn't mention the biggest covert... Linux! If you can win over Linus Torvalds and Linux kernel developers who still use C, you must be doing something right.

[@Phantom-lr6cs]

linux works without crap rust perfectly . so don't put something crap langauge like ruST XD

[@zxyi9090]

I planning learning rust after getting well versed in functional programming paradigm. What do you think about my plan? Thanks

[@Eugensson]

I am learning Rust after F#. The borrow checker is a bitch, other than that, it is okay.

[@MrLeeFergusson]

Personally i love the borrow checker stopping me making stupid mistakes, lets face the fact we all have bad days and none of us write perfect code every time. And after a while in Rust the whole problem vanishes, as you are wring more correct code naturally.

[@joshuasanders4302]

"Why would companies write their stuff in rust, if they think it's gonna go away in 10 years" Pearl has left the chat

[@huuhhhhhhh]

I love Rust but I'm not convinced when using it for things where heavy use of async is required and/or web. I've always have this nagging feeling I should be doing parallelism but I haven't learned that yet 🤔 Maybe be need a "Rust#"?

[@hebozhe]

Oh, cool! That thing you only ever have to do once every project is faster with a third-party install. Well, that seals the deal for me.

[@doriandd4648]

Wait. Google picked Rust over Go for a project?

[@ilikegeorgiabutiveonlybeen6705]

they do all kinds of shit language is literally an instrument to do the shit like when you nail the nails you wont choose a big ass hammer. or when you beat a metal rod into the dirt you will take a bigger hammer now

[@TehKarmalizer]

For some projects. A company that large doesn’t use one language for everything.

[@bionic_batman]

from what I understand Google actually doesn't use Go that much. They build most of their stuff in C++

[@daniel29263]

Of course, there are many cases where a GC is a show stopper.

[@michaellatta]

It is more performant, and safer. Compiler error messages are great.

[@italktocomputers1901]

Rust is amazing. I’m managing my infrastructure in aws with typescript CDK and writing my handlers with rust. sooooo fast man

[@BracingRex6989]

Agree, it is not for everything, it will have a bunch of unwrap, but will give uptime, thats the thing that matter

[@EugeneBos]

Unwraps in async work fine actually haha

[@nickross4059]

Where’s the jobs then?

[@ramos_4892]

In places *you* can not get to

[@mauriciolee7349]

Thank Travis for such a CONVINCING video by showing lots of big companies are switching to RUST. They are: Microsoft, Google, Dropbox, etc. I love it when you point out its disadvantages: It''s not suitable for web development.

[@onlinealias622]

AWS is writing new low level software in rust as well

[@jeffg4686]

because the 100 of us that learned it don't want it to be a fad

[@code_marked]

Rust is definitely here to stay. More and more companies are adopting Rust for its many benefits. Linux is a great example.

[@BeachFrontSolutions]

The only problem I’ve had with building in Rust since I started in 2020 is convincing my team to write Rust This was resolved though once I rebuilt a large portion of our internal tool chain in Rust and increased its stability exponentially haha

[@r2com641]

Cool story bro

[@BeachFrontSolutions]

@@r2com641 thanks glad you liked it

[@BeachFrontSolutions]

@jazzycoder all code committed today is tomorrows tech debt, every line of code I write I hope will be deprecated in the future. Entire team is writing rust now though so I’ll take my “stunt productivity” to push us forward as a team and organization any day

[@BeachFrontSolutions]

@jazzycoder I feel as though your comments are less about the actual experience I’ve shared here and are more of a projection of a poor experience you’ve had with either a company you’ve worked at or perhaps with team mates that are excited about about Rust. However to address your baseless claims against the reality of my teams experience - firstly no one was forced to write rust; in fact as our company trusts our engineers so much there are almost no restrictions placed so strictly on us that there would have been some sort of “YOU MUST WRITE RUST” proclamation - Secondly the literal point of my rebuild of a particularly cumbersome part of our internal tool chain was to show, exactly that rust is production ready within our product stack today and that the benefits can be realized with minimal additional effort. To speak to your claim of “10x” decrease in output and delivery; I think that is pretty hyperbolic, but most of my team during their ramp and spike periods with rust did experience a 2x at most decrease to their throughput but that was for maybe 3-4 weeks, which was completely planned for and reasonable. To say this makes our business suffer is pretty false for us also - in the last 8 months since our adoption of Rust as a full team we have released about 1.5x the normal amount of new features and most importantly we’ve seen roughly a 75% reducing is support issues raised post release. This was pretty much a roaring success for us, and again I’m sorry that your experience has not been the same but truly I feel that your criticism has less to do with Rust as a language and more to do with the environment in which you work.

[@emptydata-xf7ps]

Rust is slow compile time high level language without a GC. Thats it. Once you start to try anything that requires low level memory management it’s a pain. A linked list is not trivial in rust. Its safety has proven to not be as safe as it claims.

[@emptydata-xf7ps]

@@RustIsWinning if you’re writing kernel code or writing drivers your using linked lists. So if that’s boomer to you, then stick to web dev. The std library has multiple vulnerabilities, just google rust CVEs to see them all.

[@mindfulnessrock]

Why would you consider rust not good for web backend stuff?

[@TravisMedia]

Oh it's good for web. Just not as mature as other decades-old web-tools. Therefore a new learning curve, new tools, etc. Would take more time to build if time is an issue, etc.

[@mindfulnessrock]

@@TravisMedia I as trying to learn it for backend development, and even though I like rust more, everyone seems to favor go instead, so I'm a bin in a dilemma

[@ashrafuzzamankhalid3465]

Hi there. You really explained why rust is not going anywhere. Also, a lot of major companies are pushing it forward. Do you think, it can happen to Mojo as well? Or, mojo is or will surpass rust and be the industry standard.(I am not saying Rust is the industry standard right now) So, if a programmer with basic knowledge in programming choosing between these two languages. What option should they choose? What do you think?!!!

[@unconnectedbedna]

The memory security part of rust is... often a red herring.. Not many applications are 100% rust, and if they are not 100% rust, they most likely rely on C libraries, and therefore are no longer "safer". The speed is absolutely true, I just wish people would stop thinking "oh, it contains rust code, therefore it is 100% memory safe", because it is untrue. The reason this is done, is because there IS no rust libraries like in C, it's simply not possible because, wait for it, IT WOULD MAKE IT MEMORY UNSAFE. And most devs do not want to spend time writing an entire libraries for every single application, therefore use C libraries. So PLEASE stop claiming "rust is safer", you are just spreading disinformation. A 100% rust written application, yes, but show me a few of those. You will have a HARD time finding big applications, because of COST. This is why Linus is tired of "the rust BS" within the kernel, the same thing applies there. Unless the ENTIRE kernel becomes rust, witch it will NEVER, the gain with rust is speed, and speed only, NOT memory security. "C is not memory safe, with rust, it does that for you..." eeeeh, no, you have to WRITE everything BY HAND and the debugger can warn you. Again, you can NOT use libraries, because those are already compiled, how would it check memory security in them?!?

[@delicious_seabass]

Most C devs have nothing to say about Rust because we simply don't care about it. Words cannot express how little we care. 😎

[@nanonkay5669]

So why are your fellow C devs hating on rust?

[@delicious_seabass]

@@nanonkay5669 They aren't my 'fellows' as we aren't a community, but sounds just like your typical neckbeareds with lisps.

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

Because of what Rust represents: idiots who can't write software who need crutches to stop them doing dumb sh*t. Learn how to write software!!!

[@AnythingGodamnit]

Don't care enough to hang out and shitpost on Rust YT videos 🙄

[@oserodal2702]

Fair, but my interpretation of the "C people that actively hate Rust" is that they are actually C++ devs in disguise, cause actual C people mostly live under rocks anyways, still using C99.

[@srivatsa1193]

Mojo and Rust can coexist. I want to do all things AI in python -> Mojo and the rest of all my development work in rust. Recently, Microsoft Research released AICI which is an AI tool that sits between the model and the controller in the web framework. I really want to see Rust and AI come together.

[@llothar68]

Unless you ever have to deploy your AI in an app to run locally. All this environments are nice but it's such a pain in the arse to make a deployment outside your controlled server world.

[@macolul]

How to keep up with the fast IT world

[@johnmckown1267]

I am a 71 year old programming junky. I just retired after 44 years in IT. I totally agree that Rust is very good, from what I've seen. But it depends on what you're doing. I have done uncountable "one off" projects to quickly produce a time critical report. I used a scripting language, like a Bash script or awk or Perl to get the results to the user. If it turns out that they need the report regularly, then I took the time to reimplement in a more efficient language like C.

[@jongxina3595]

Rust has a woke foundation and a woke community. Its doomed before it even takes off...

[@sharanchakradhar]

Yet, I cannot find a Junior level Rust job from months now. :(

[@TravisMedia]

The Rust market isn't junior-friendly, currently.

[@platonvin1022]

i guess, Rust is the first language that cannot live without propaganda

[@daphenomenalz4100]

Rust is great for building something you want to exist for long and be performant even after years. Go can be used for the same in most cases as it's also really performant just like rust but faster and easier to write. But people probably just love rust more xD, so companies are switching to it.

[@Fabios-br]

Love or hate? MS using a language developed by Google? forget.

[@ravikumarmistry]

Do not use rust, if you are not building very low level things, working on business app must be done using high level lang like c#, java, python etc. Building large business application require a team and devs should not worry to much if performance difference is just some milliseconds. Memory and cpu cost is very cheep but people cost a lot.

[@fojico1234]

Wait a sec, what cargo for python, whoever had a performance issue with pip!!?

[@lerssilarsson6414]

Got my Mojo working...

[@bernardcrnkovic3769]

yes, installing packages always bothered me for being too slow... /s

[@fredrikbergquist5734]

I think Rust is like ADA, if you have the White House backing it it vill be big but not in the industry.

[@kokosensei5231]

Thank you for share!

[@zxuiji]

I don't like rust because of it's mut keyword. Obviously I'm going to want to modify 9 out of 10 variables at least. Very rarely do I ever want a variable to constant. If rust had chosen to use the const keyword instead of mut I'd be more warming to the idea of using it but that's hell nah from me mate.

[@stanrock8015]

Syntax ugly? Disagree there

[@Miles-co5xm]

I agree, but it does feel dense.

[@user-uf4lf2bp8t]

Only thing about it I find ugly is the namespace syntax.

[@twelvetican]

​@@user-uf4lf2bp8tI like their namespace syntax though

[@user-uf4lf2bp8t]

@@twelvetican imo it gets very messy with both types and modules as namespaces

[@MrChelovek68]

For me its ugliest syntax...but,every functional language ugly for ne. Imho

[@Freddy78909]

Rust takes longer to write, is hard, has ugly-ish syntax and the compiler complains (a lot) ... For all those reasons you mentioned I think it's potential is limited. The community is very elitest from what I hear too. I do agree Rust is a poor choice for web development.

[@deckard5pegasus673]

Definitely this comment section is not filled with ridiculous troll bot comments pushing rust agenda. Doh!!

[@DM-pg4iv]

Ive been learning it for 2 months and yeah I like it. Ima stick with it

[@amirmir3244]

Love your work Travis.

[@saabirmohamed636]

I love rust , in my opinion it should be compulsory learning for devs. (it solidifies programming concepts, and you realise how unsafe your code can be.) to me its not ugly ... its elegant. the one liners are amazing as time goes you end up patching and fixing your code ..and the solutions end using rust concepts anyways, but in rust you just end up forced to write good code 1st. its a bit difficult ...but should be at least learnt. definitely not a passing fad

[@albizutoday2754]

All those studies are showing lines… Remember follow the science? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@dranon0o]

Cope It's because there were no real alternative Zig is coming Go and Zig works perfectly together Rust did so many bad design mistakes and will sadly take the thousand cut way I don't want to be part of the people that will have to go back to Rust code in 40 years from now Rust is simply not good enough, it is interesting and providing good concepts but not good enough C++ was a mistake C was too weak and too simple At least, Rust started a good conversation in the industry But Zig is going to end the conversation

[@MrTrollland]

Name 5 design mistakes in rust

[@Александр-ф9в4ю]

​@@MrTrollland 1. Rust is not Go 2. Rust is not Zig 3. Rust is not primitive as Go 4. Rust is not primitive as Zig 5. Rust is harder than Zig and Go. And learning Rust is very hard task for my gomonkey's brain.

[@Ownage4lif31]

Touched rust for a few hours, never again. Disgusting language, disgusting....

[@LambdaJack]

Performance indeed.

[@AmjadKhagga]

RUST is a very good language, but an even better language has emerged named D, and the performance of the D language is unparalleled. In fact, this language is built on the skeleton of C.

[@gamechannel1271]

D has a garbage collector, which by design no matter how well it is implemented either leads to memory leaks or freezes where garbage is being collected.

[@adjbutler]

Rust is coming after C++, Zig is going after C!

[@smarterlife7331]

Its syntax is NOT ugly. It is important and a must , IF you know what you are doing, and if you want to do what you want to do, safely (sanely).

[@tomaskulik80]

All this written in rust is x times faster, yeah well if written in C it is x^2 faster, so lets compare rust with C, not go, python, etc

[@EugeneBos]

I tried to compare but got undefined behavior instead

[@carsonjamesiv2512]

Interesting take on Rust.😃👍🎉