Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards: 7th level spells

[@ifidio2]

Forcecage is so strong that if it was an 8th level spell I think it would still be one of the best choices for the level.

[@raikirah975]

Chris, you're completely misunderstanding Mirage Arcane. "The spell doesn't disguise, conceal, or add creatures," means that the illusions it creates don't affect creatures' appearance, cause invisibility or obscurement, or add the facsimile of a creature where no creature exists. It does NOT mean that you "can't create a wall around a city just because that city has people in it", lol. If you're running it that way at your table, you're severely nerfing one of the premier spells of your Illusionists.

[@Tovish1988]

Yeah, no concealment in that sense would mean if you make something, it can't come between any creature and any other creature. Want to put a boulder there? Nope, there is a squirrel 100 yards away in a tree that wouldn't be able to see that bird any more . . .

[@jeffreywilkins6142]

In all fairness, "The spell doesn't disguise, conceal, or add creatures" might be one of the vaguest sentences I've ever read.

[@Spiceodog]

To be fair, it’s one of the vaguest descriptions I’ve heard in the game. Expect confusion on this spell

[@Adurnis]

“Or ten halflings.” 😂 Well played TM. I’ve said it before, but I love crown of stars for a dungeon crawl. It’s better in the hands of someone who excels at spell attacks, like a warlock with a rod of the pact keeper, but it’s something extra to do on your turn, and it scales pretty well, making it a good choice for a multiclass character whose slots go up to 8 before their spells do (and honestly, I think it’s better than a lot of level 8 spells). I understand why TM doesn’t call it blue, because it’s certainly not game-changing, but it’s a lot of fun for me!

[@horstmeier2664]

Hey Chris, after re-reading the spell description of Reverse Gravity, I think it really reverses gravity. The rest are consequences of that reversal. If a creature can grab on to something the spell reads „it avoids the fall“ not „it is unaffected by the spell“. I would go even further and say creatures only gets a save if there is a fixed object to grab onto. Most rooms and many outside environment probably won‘t have many such objects.

[@jonc.6046]

Yes, I was just about to make this comment. Treantmonk's "straight from the text" reading is not straight from the text.

[@smbakeresq]

Horst Meier I play it this way. IIRC this was also the way it was in previous editions. For flying creature I also figure some would be greatly disoriented, I would assume a Pegasus probably never flys upside down, some birds can do but only briefly, etc. I think a more import issue is the area is affected, so the boulder next to you would also drop up and might hit a player. If seated in a cart you would now be under a cart hurtling towards the ground.

[@Kipex]

Yeah agreed on both points. I actually think the spell is quite simple which is why I really like it. If I have a good view of everything on the battlefield, I can use it and have a pretty good idea of what will end up happening at least during the initial cast. Remember to ask your DM about any objects in the area as well. Hell, you could even throw objects at the area specifically so they are affected by the reverse gravity and smash to the enemies up above. Neat creative potential all around.

[@Stormeris]

Sequester spell. Trigger - when Half-Life 3 is released.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

That's a death sentence.

[@Ironfist85hu1]

@Липинский Владимир Half Life Alyx is NOT Half Life 3.

[@meris8486]

@@Ironfist85hu1 It basically is, they continued the story, deapeand the mystery of the gman and changed things from episode 2

[@FelineElaj]

A note about Plane Shift: it has a potentially problematic material component, a fork attuned to a specific plane. So, it seems, that if you use this spell to teleport to another plane, you won't be able to come back unless you have another fork attuned to your home plane. Also, you'd need to carry around a ton of 250 gp worth forks if you want to shift to different planes. All in all, I haven't seen any clarifications on this topic anywhere, which means this is DM-dependent. Personally, I don't like that.

[@seb8523]

You wouldn't need that many forks, since they aren't consumed. Only one for the material plane, and one for each plane you intend to visit, which probably isn't that many.

[@FelineElaj]

@@seb8523 true, but it's still more than one. High-level wizards drag around tons of expensive spell components already. Besides, it's not the number of forks that bothers me. It's the ambiguity. Where can I get one? How do I attune a fork to a Plane? Can I change a fork's attunement? Can I make one myself? If so, what tools would I use? Too many DM-dependent things. So it's hard to judge the value of this spell - it might be great, it might be too much of a bother.

[@WexMajor82]

@@FelineElaj You can build one. If you have the arcana skill, I guess it's like building a mundane object, like an armor.

[@blastmasters285]

Fun story about prismatic spray, this was in 3.5 So I think the rules were a little different. Our necromancer decided to prismatic spray my fighter and the monsters he was fighting. After getting the best rolls ever, he petrified my fighter and sent him to hell, which resulted in a few sessions having to go find and rescue him. He's DMing a 5e game for me now and I still won't let him live it it down. This happened 10 years ago.

[@HaloFTW2408]

Here are the ratings in text format for quick reference. Red (*) - Not Recommended Orange (**) - Too Circumstantial to warrant preparation Purple (***) - Ok Spells Green (****) - Good Spells Blue (*****) - Must Have Spells Ab - Abjuration Conj - Conjuration Enc - Enchantment Evo - Evocation Ill - Illusion Necr - Necromancy Tran - Transmutation Conc - Concentration Crown of Stars (Evo) (****) (14:01) Delayed Blast Fireball (Evo, Conc) (**) (16:58) Etherealness (Tran) (**) (32:50) Finger of Death (Necr) (**) or (*) as just a blast (28:25) Forcecage (Evo) (*****) (10:43) Mirage Arcane (Ill) (***) (23:34) Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion (Conj) (***) Thematically cool, mechanically okay (06:33) Mordenkainen's Sword (Evo, Conc) (*) The worst 7th Level Spell in Treantmonk's opinion (21:28) Plane Shift (Conj) (****) (04:59) Power Word Pain (Enc) (*) (08:40) Prismatic Spray (Evo) (*) (19:12) Project Image (Ill, Conc) (**) (26:58) Reverse Gravity (Tran, Conc) (***) or (****) depending on DM interpertation (29:53) Sequester (Tran) (**) Close to (*) (34:51) Simulacrum (Ill) (*****) (22:27) Symbol (Abj) (*) (01:45) Teleport (Conj) (****) (03:08) Whirlwind (Evo, Conc) (***) (15:18)

[@matthewbriddell9848]

For the question of Disintegrate targeting Forcecage or Wall of Force, even if those spell effects are invisible, you can still see things behind them, so it's easy enough for a player to just say "I'm targeting the creature/wall/whatever I can see behind the spell effect" and the beam will strike and destroy the Force wall.

[@binolombardi]

Matthew Briddell To target something with the spell you need to be able to see it. The notion of the target being behind cover, and possibly hitting that cover instead on a miss is a variant tool that is described in the DMG.

[@smbakeresq]

A wall of force you couldn’t miss, it takes up the whole space you shoot the beam through. A force cage you can still hit even though it has empty spaces in it. I have always let players just target them even though it is “unseen” you can still know where it is and target that square.

[@WexMajor82]

"You can take a small army in there" Yep. Done. Also, they came out BEHIND enemy lines 24 hours later, and attacked the enemy formation from behind.

[@rpranger6115]

Though I agree that Delayed Blast Fireball uses are circumstantial, when it goes off well, it's beautiful. I had a party of a Cleric, a Wizard, and an Ancients Paladin, and were entering a tavern full of enemies (lycanthropes disguised as people), who did not know us yet. Ancient's Paladin distracts them for a minute of casual conversation while the Wizard is powering up the blast. Once the time is up, and all the enemies are now gathered around the Paladin getting ready to start combat, all of a sudden a Delayed Blast Fireball, a regular fireball, a Flame Strike, and an Ice Storm, go off all at once. Paladin takes half damage from some, quarter damage from others. All enemies die. DM is like "you did about 1000 points of damage in an instant".

[@MrNikolasMorith]

So I’m always the guy talking about Illusions. I’ll have to say that the argument about how a wall can’t conceal a creature isn’t what the writers meant. My humble opinion is that you couldn’t use this to turn a square mile worth of creatures invisible or create a square mile worth of illusionary army. Also Mr. Crawford’s only comment on this spell is something along the lines of “If you make a tree you could climb the tree.” And the spell talks about anyone with true sight can see the real terrain, but still physically interact with objects. It talks about how illusionary sticks and stones will disappear if removed. All of this makes me think...the walls, rocks, stairs, or what ever you make are at least semi-real. Which is thematic of any of the Shadow Illusion spells. I truly believe this was meant to be used to be able to make illusionary forts or forests...but not for making lava rivers to destroy things. -EDIT- Also the range of sight is the biggest limit. You can’t change what you can’t see. I learned that from one of your videos actually. So this would only really be maximum effect in a wide open space or from a high vantage point.

[@jakubguziur7522]

Well, but noone said that you can't make a lava river with this spell. Building on another Crawford's tweet that "you can drown in an illusory lake", you can prolly also burn in illusory lava. Truesight would save you from drowning or burning, as you wouldn't believe that you're drowning or burning - at least as long as you choose not to interact with the illusion.

[@TheAdditionalPylons]

"It bums me out that it does so much damage and doesn't use my concentration" ---- ROFL

[@revianwirabuana5278]

Teleport also always works if you're designating a permanent teleportation circle. So if you have the sigil sequence of a permanent circle, you can always use that as the destination of your escape

[@topgunbobby]

I don't always cast Delayed Blast Fireball, but when I do, it's right before I step off the elevator.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I figured that was you.

[@corran2145]

Nitpick about etherealness. You can target 6 characters with it if you use a 9th lvl slot. And it does not use your concentration.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Good call. Terrible use of a 9th level slot though

[@corran2145]

@@TreantmonksTempleAgreed. Something I saw mentioned recently, was symbol used with a 9th level slot. More accurately, using wish to cast symbol with no component cost and with one action. This way symbol could become more of a combat spell and we could find more uses for it. Though this is one of the things that make wish, and not symbol, a good spell. But either way, I wanted to bring it to your attention, just in case you didn't know of it already.

[@dominicl5862]

The thing about simulacrum is that you need to build a snowman so you need to be in a cold area. Workarounds: Maybe your dm allows u to collect snow from sleet storm. Just teleport or plane shift to somewhere with snow

[@marcbenson1969]

Finally a good use for Snilloc's Snowball Storm!! I'd burn a 2nd level spell to make a copy of myself.

[@FelineElaj]

Just reached 13th level at the end of our year-long campaign yesterday. Hope I'll get the chance of finally using all those whacky 7th level spell I've been hearing so much about.

[@Tzunamii777]

How did it go post 13?

[@FelineElaj]

@@Tzunamii777 it didn't. So I started my own campaign. The party has reached level 20 four or five sessions ago. A couple more sessions (hopefully), and we'll wrap this up. Took me 2,5 years.

[@matthewconlon2388]

Pretty sure the intended interpretation of Mirage Arcane is that it can't make creatures invisible or appear to be other creatures, but if you make a giant box, people outside the box won't be able to see what's inside. So if you're in the tundra and you magic up a jungle, your jungle will still be populated by arctic foxes and polar bears, but if you magic up adamantine walls, they block LOS. I'm also surprised you didn't mention that Mirage Arcane's massive area should probably make it Green or Blue for Illusionists. Acid Tsunami that's real for a minute will probably clear a lot of encounters quick, fast, and in a hurry. Project Image is actually very interesting as an Illusionist since you can maybe throw an illusory version of yourself into the foe's camp and then make it a real you for 1 minute, so depending on DM it might operate independently and be able to cast spells from its location. I gotta reread that ability, maybe you didn't mention it because there are conditions for it that these spells don't meet.

[@planetfall5056]

"I'm also surprised you didn't mention that Mirage Arcane's massive area should probably make it Green or Blue for Illusionists. Acid Tsunami that's real for a minute will probably clear a lot of encounters quick, fast, and in a hurry." It would except illusory reality says the objects the illusionist makes real can't deal damage or otherwise directly harm anyone.

[@planetfall5056]

@@sharkforce8147 I was referring to making the illusion real with illusory reality and how that has a limit on making things non damaging. As for the spell itself I don't know. It says creatures can physically interact with the illusion and how the illusion can include "tactile" elements, but it says nothing about those things being able to cause damage. Given that most illusion spells don't cause damage and how even making stuff real with illusory reality don't cause damage I don't think mirage arcane would be able to cause damage. At the end of the day its still an illusion of acid not summoning actual acid.

[@joebywan]

​@@planetfall5056 It can deal damage, just indirectly. www.sageadvice.eu/2018/06/03/if-i-used-mirage-arcane-to-transform-a-lake-of-water-into-a-lake-of-lava/ Also with an illusionist at that level you can make parts of it real for a minute. The Acid Tsunami could be made real, and the wave would then deal damage www.sageadvice.eu/2017/12/21/can-ilusory-reality-deal-indirect-damage/

[@smbakeresq]

It’s a tough spell to adjudicate. For me it’s like the entrance to Platform 9 3/4. If a player is thrown into an mirage arcane object do they take damage? I see some of the ideas people have had, but as a DM if I used those same ideas against those players they would get pissed. I stick to the idea that it’s a massive illusion, with all elements present, so that only serious investigation would give it away.

[@smbakeresq]

SharkForce like I said elsewhere, if as DM I used it on you and your group to blast the group everyone would complain it’s unfair. Finger of death is terrible, TM explains why. Symbol has an obvious limitation, you have to get them into it. Forcecage is powerful, but affects only one creature. Mirage is being read to be more powerful then any wish your DM would grant. That just shouldn’t be.

[@roamingthereal4060]

It's all about perspective. You say Finger of Death is circumstantial, meanwhile it turns every unused level 7 or higher slot into a permanent summon. Goodberry is hailed for being able to rollover a few HP for a day, which you arguably can't even feed to other people. What's a better rollover spell for slots 7 or 8? Honestly, I can't think of one.

[@goatmeal5241]

Mirage Arcane has 10 day duration =)

[@smbakeresq]

As long as you have people around to kill and use as zombies with zero repercussions. I don’t know any DM that allows that except the BBEG necromancers that build undead armies and are focuses of campaigns

[@oskarmathiasen398]

simulacrum is probably better, if you are really rich

[@Real_Iron_Smith]

My players tend to shock me a bit each time they get newer spells, so This video helped me be prepared this go around for their latest possible moves!

[@sarezar]

Great video again. I agree with your ratings, apart from etherealness. I think even just one person being able to spy on everything while being almost 100% safe is really useful. Orange rating feels unfair. No other spell allows you to do this so safely and completely. You can even follow enemies around and listen to their plans. As a DM, this is a spell that could literally ruin your plans to surprise and excite your players (or even capture them, if that's what your story needs) When it comes to Disintegrate and the two spells, this is how I treat them: - Wall of Force: You just have to target something inside its area. Even a speck of dust. Disintegrate will have to hit Wall of Force and disintegrate it. - Forcecage: if it's a box, same as Wall of Force. If it's a cage, I ask the caster to roll percentage dice. 50-50 it may hit the cage. Depending on what's inside the cage, it may hit it (DM call) With regards to cones, I think you are being somewhat unfair. From my experience, the variety of situations of combat is so large that the one situation cones are cumbersome (narrow corridor with the Wizard at the back) are actually the minority. If the cone has a long range, I usually really like the spell due to the flexibility to move to the correct angle to hit many enemies. Nevertheless, I'm not gonna say you are wrong; just slightly unfair against them :)

[@peterrasmussen4428]

I think the cool thing about project image is, that as an illusion it bypasses non-detection and private sanctum.

[@zeedar412]

Yeah Mirage Arcane is an illusion, so while creatures can't go through it, objects always will. So arrows that are fired at it will go through. If the barbarian decides to break down the illusory wall, the greataxe will pass through it. If you create an illusion of stairs, and try to walk up it, you fall through, because there is nothing really there. What makes it amazing is its size and duration combined with illusory reality and malleable illusions. Set up the spell a few days ahead and you can change it at will or make parts of it real as necessary. That is super powerful.

[@luiswi]

But lets say you want to just run into a wall because you are a raging barbarian and youre running at full speed. Even if you would think the wall is real, you could not stop yourself. The only way to stop yourself is by encountering a force. So in this regard, would you get through the wall with this? What if youre moved against your will? Could you create a bridge with it?

[@luiswi]

@@sharkforce8147 But Objects pass through it right? Where does an object begin and where does it end? If you cut of your arm, is it an object? Lets say you die and get revived in the illusion or you are a skeleton, is your arm an object?

[@goatmeal5241]

You can explicitly make a crevasse. There is no way for a crevasse to fool the sense of touch unless the 'toucher' can fall through. If you disallow objects you create contradictions, like a naked person will fall into a crevasse but an armored person can walk across, and a partially armored person would have their objects hold them up? It gets too silly to believe.

[@goatmeal5241]

@@luiswi The only self-consistent solution is that it affects objects. Otherwise the contradictions are everywhere, given crevasses and hills as examples.

[@zeedar412]

As a DM I would never allow the effects to be used as it is argued here, because at that point it's just a big exploit factory. I'm not opening the door to that, I don't care what Jeremy Crawford says.

[@climbinggiant4744]

For Mirage Arcane, I'm pretty sure the bit about "You can not disguise, conceal, or add creatures" is just saying that you can't use the spell as a replacement for mass Disguise Self, mass Invisibility, or mass Major Image. It would not make sense that you could create an illusory forest that peoples have x-ray like vision for every insect, beast, and person walking around inside. Jeremy also made a comment about being able to physically climb illusory trees made by Mirage Arcane, and creature's with True Sight can still choose to physically interact with the illusion. The spell says you can make difficult terrain into passable terrain, which would indicate that there's more here than just "its all in your head". IDK though, I'm just a scrub.

[@bradprutzman4460]

Thank you for doing all of this. I just recently found you and I have been just binging your videos for the last week. When you are done with the 9th level spells I was wondering if you could please provide us with a color-coded list of all wizard spells. Being able to download such a list for example from your website would be very handy and would direct more traffic to your website! Thanks again.

[@tomgibbs4552]

See if you can find Treantmonk's God Wizard build on Google. A lot of the spells are rated similar to the videos released, so if you're looking for just a list of all the best/worst wizard spells, that would be what I would do.

[@nastube4052]

It clearly says that the gravity remains for the duration.. If they let go of the stick they would then fall unless they can fly or whatever. (so I guess it's Green) Also,.. Put a prismatic wall above an enemy so that it will go through it twice before reaching the top.. then release the spell and make it fall back through it again.. dead enemy (any enemy). ^_^

[@karljordan7114]

So I'm watching your videos in order, level 1 - level 7, and I see the pattern. Everything, everything which was good in 3.5 WoC turned topsy turvey.

[@TheFirstLanx]

How about sequestering your magic armour? It still works right? But nobody knows you're wearing armour. Maybe that's where all those terribly inappropriate "armour" outfits come from? What would happen if you sequestered your weapon? Would you get advantage on attacking people because they can't see your weapon? Perhaps they can read your body language, but that would be really hard with something like a flail I imagine. How big an object can be sequestered? Can I use it to cloak my airship? Does it pause spells like animate dead so that they're still under my control when they awake? Can creatures be made willing with a suggestion spell? I could definitely see Sequester being a staple of fashion... Along with continual flame perhaps. If you sequester a continual flamed item, do you get an eerie ghostlight seemingly with no source? You could make yourself look like the chosen one, eternally bathed in warm light and divination would not reveal this to be fake... Such possibilities! Most of them not very conventionally useful, but oh the stories we could make with this spell!

[@planetfall5056]

The spell also ends if the target takes any damage so I don't think armor or weapons would stay sequestered very long.

[@ArviniSchool]

Why did you not mention the 10D6 bludgeoning damage that Whirlwind does? .... Also every round a creature enters it space or the WW enters its space? That's a pretty bit deal to miss bro.

[@smbakeresq]

Arvin Ross they do not get damaged if they are in the whirlwind, only upon entering it or it entering their space. If they are restrained by the WW they are already in its space so no damage. The damage is something, but the bigger affect is trapping people in it. You could keep ramming into people that keep making their saves, but it’s regular bludgeoning damage and will average 17 points if they make their save and are not resistant.

[@ArviniSchool]

Yes my friend... but my point.. is that that wasn’t even accounted for.. that’s assuming they save.

[@smbakeresq]

Arvin Ross the damage is there, it’s just so secondary to the level and main effect it’s not really relevant. The main use is control. To me the bigger issue is you need them to fail multiple saves to keep them in there, although it does screw up the battlefield

[@ArviniSchool]

I’m sorry.... the damage is where?

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

Raccoonzilla is too tall to fit in your puny *Forcecage* Up from the depths! Thirty stories tall! Raccoonzilla! Raccoonzilla! And Raccoonzookie!!!!

[@Eversca]

Surprised you dislike etherealness. I wouldn't call it circumstantial, I've always found it broadly useful. If I'm not using it for infiltration then it's very reassuring to know I can fall back on it as an escape. You did leave out one pretty significant use for it too: it's amazing for scouting. I've found that its usefulness in making the caster unstoppable at a task they would often struggle with, coupled with great scaling and an excellent duration, make etherealness surprisingly reliable.

[@joebywan]

You neglected to mention the effect of an illusionist on mirage arcane. Selectively making things real, and changing it at will. Means you can cast it before you enter a dungeon, and you get a square mile of range to make illusions at will with malleable illusions, and then make them real with illusiory reality. Saves your spell slots for 10 days. Also with mirage arcane, and malleable illusions, you can use it to force march armies over water. Or drown people in water, or even drown entire villages in illusiory water.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

According to designers, you can only use Illusory reality once on a given spell. Also, it only extends where you can see, so unless the dungeon is see through, that's a no-go.

[@joebywan]

@@TreantmonksTemple I'm assuming that's been errata'd somewhere? Still allows the use of malleable illusions atleast.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

No errata, merely clarified as the text does not specify either way.

[@Reepicheep-1]

_Mansion_ is also the downtime money maker. -open a day spa -host the circus -become the hospital -become a (whatever) -team up with the druid and care for/heal livestock -become a vet

[@aureliomanalo]

Nothing to say other than great video. I've heard the more comments on videos, the more likely the video will be recommended to others.

[@AngryNord]

There are a few things I would like to point out with Symbol: 1. The Death Symbol does a ton of damage if the enemy gets stuck in the area for the duration. Symbol doesn't do its damage just once, but every time a creature enters the sphere of effect or ends its turn there for TEN WHOLE MINUTES. Even if the enemy is resistant to necrotic damage and succeeds on every saving throw, they will still take on average 1375 damage over the duration. 2. There is nothing stopping you from stacking them, so given time to prepare and enough money (or lots of time to prepare and Wish), you can combine Symbols with Glyphs of Warding to essentially instantly win any encounter. Set a Death Symbol, and then a Glyph of Warding with Transmute Rock: Mud. Then set one or more Symbols with Insanity, Pain, or Stunning. Each of these effects targets a different save, and takes away the action of creature, inevitably getting them stuck in the mud from Transmute Rock. Once the enemy fails just one of those saves, they are more or less 100% dead unless they are immune to necrotic damage, and even if they succeed then they have a single round to escape the area before they are subjected to that gauntlet all over again. You can even make it a more foolproof death trap if you want by putting up Glyphs of Counterspell that go off in response to Dispel Magic, or Glyphs of Private Sanctum to prevent teleportation. Go nuts, get creative. And the beautiful part? You can kick back and watch the fireworks while having a summoned creature pour you margaritas, because this doesn't even take concentration. 3. Using this combo to guard your fortress while you're away, and want to know if there has been a breach? Program a magic mouth to say a code word in response to activation, and then set a Glyph of Sending to activate in response to that word. The possibilities here are endless. Now, would I burn a level up slot on Symbol when spells like Forcecage, Plane Shift, Simulacrum, Teleport, and Reverse Gravity exist? Maybe not. But would I go out of my way to find and scribe this, or burn Wish on it during down time? Absolutely. The only downside here is that once your DM sees you pull this stunt off one time, you'll likely never get to do it again, and they will likely also start thinking of ways to use the same trick against you. Be sure to use this to kill something big and nasty, and not mundane. Happy Trapping! TL;DR: Don't ever enter an Arch Abjurer's home uninvited.

[@Warchoon]

I wonder why you didn't mention that combo of Plane Shift + Rope Trick works as a better Teleport, while taking a bit more time (having to climb the rope). Technically, any extradimensional spell (from Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and Demiplane to Etherealness) works in place of Rope Trick, but Rope Trick is level 2 spell, so you're not spending a ton of your high-level slots for that. Because double-cast of Plane Shift is not really feasible - you get double level 7 slots kinda too late in progression.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

As far as I understand, an extradimensional space is not another plane of existence.

[@Warchoon]

@@TreantmonksTemple Well, in DMG there's a passage about Demiplane: "When a demiplane is connected to the Material Plane or some other plane, entering it can be as simple as stepping through a portal or passing through a wall of mist", and Demiplane is extradimensional. So as I read it, it's not considered a plane of existence, so you can plane shift OUT of it, just not INTO it. I wonder if there's a clarification about it from the game designers.

[@MadNitr0]

battle field control wizard is best wizard... cant wait for them builds guides!!!

[@saprone8885]

I would take Plane Shift as a level 8 spell as preparation for getting Wish later. It makes travelling from and to your Demiplane made with Wish a lot easier. This way you will have a level 7 and 8 spell slot available to travel around your Demiplane or cast Forcecage and keep Wish open for other spells. Without it you will have to spend your precious Wish spell to leave your Demiplane in case you die and arrive at your Clones location in the Demiplane.

[@KINFIN123]

DB Fireball is one of those spells that’s much better on a sorcerer. Being able to Subtle the spell and use it either as an assassination tool or just pop it on unaware enemies silently is pretty great

[@planetfall5056]

While you could cast it subtly the spell itself seems pretty noticeable. "A beam of yellow light flashes from your pointing finger, then condenses to linger at a chosen point within range as a glowing bead for the duration."

[@KINFIN123]

Planetfall that’s where it comes to the DM because the finger beam part seems like a somatic component. Last time I use it, my dm had the bead appearing with no beam

[@planetfall5056]

​@@KINFIN123 I suppose. That seems more like a part of the spell then about how its cast to me. Would your DM rule subtle spelling a disintegrate gets rid of its beam or a firebolt's bolt?

[@KINFIN123]

Planetfall the difference with Firebolt is that’s specifically listed as a “ranged spell attack”. So of course that has to come from you. Subtle Spell is really weird when it comes to blasts though. I’ll ask about disintegrate though.

[@planetfall5056]

@@KINFIN123 Hmm, interesting.

[@RobKinneySouthpaw]

For delayed blast fireball, could you throw it under a minor illusion of the McGuffin or something right in front of you? You and your party retreat as they mass their forces and charge. They won't see it to throw it back at you, And then you let him have it, plus your regular third level fireball or whatever your throwing next

[@finnianquail8881]

heard this use of symbol: make a symbol and an illusionary wall to hide it. if someone uses true sight to see through illusions theu can be harmed/stunned

[@danielbeshers1689]

Really enjoy your perspective on Wizard play and spell ranking. On that topic, you often talk about how a spell is actually not better (or even worse than) a lower level spell. Would you consider doing a video on what level you evaluate a spell *should* be? For example, you fairly point out that Prismatic Spray is often no better (or even worse) than Fireball, but does have a chance to be stronger. What level would it have to be to earn a purple rating? 4th? 3rd? I know I'd at least be interested in your thoughts.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

4th maybe? It would definitely be higher than purple as a 3rd level.

[@danielbeshers1689]

That was kind of my feeling as well. I do believe there are a lot of "legacy" spells that exist at the same level they did for multiple editions but are not balanced for those levels for whatever reasons.

[@erikitter6773]

Cone is 90 degrees. One step 'infront' of your party at the sight and targeting a whole room without friendly fire isn't any problem.

[@social3ngin33rin]

Isn't that crown basically Melf's minute meteors? Was plane shift mentioned?

[@Coid]

One thing you can do with Delayed Blast Fireball if you have the time to set it up in advance is have the party Rogue grab it and throw it into another room. Technically it doesn't even call for an action on the part of the creature who would grab the bead and throw it, so they could potentially get their Sneak Attack on, too, to open up combat. You'd need to check with the DM whether they'd have to throw it from wherever they immediately grabbed it from or if they could hold it for more than one round or if they could hold it, move, and then throw it.

[@Coid]

And if you have a Rogue with Evasion and they can walk around with the bead in their hand across multiple rounds, that adds a whole dimension of potential fun.

[@ts25679]

Do you think that dropping the level and damage of Mordenkainen's sword to make it the wizard's spiritual weapon would be a good conversion, like thaumaturgy and prestidigitation, or do you think that it cuts into some of the cleric's uniqueness? Class differentiation is the only reason I can think of why the wizard doesn't get true healing spells (yes I do know wizards are OP but magic is inherently OP). Furthermore, do you think that the reason blast and necromancy spells suck is to try to get players to play wizards a particular way?

[@energyfitness5116]

Think of it this way: Simulacrum, though expensive, gives you a copy of yourself that can cast all your spells once(unless via Sorcerer -> Wish -> regained spell slots). So the Sword should at LEAST be non-concentration, have stats, have a Reaction/Bonus Action, take up space, and should be able to at least to damage akin to Cantrips(wizards current level) or lower level spells. IMO, of course. Essentially like summoning a Lvl 7 Fighter. Bonus effects could be: damaging objects, multiple attacks or AoE, Dash action, grappling, etc.

[@luiswi]

@@energyfitness5116 but simulacrum is op and its not a spell you cast in combat.

[@anthonynorman7545]

@@sharkforce8147 meat shields? Jk I agree it's good balance. Also, I'm not familiar with too many wizards in other media that take out strong creatures with a single or few spells (excluding Harry Potter's series infamous spell).

[@anthonynorman7545]

@@sharkforce8147 the ward is great but most of the time the hp absorption is extremely inefficient for tanking because of how slowly it regains hp.

[@anthonynorman7545]

@@sharkforce8147 yes, the ward ups hp to fighter levels, but it doesn't regain hp anywhere near as easily or efficiently as a fighter can with a few cheesy exceptions. How else can a wizard soak up so many hits?

[@pwcabach]

"Save or Suck Spell". That's fantastic! Is that the first use of that appelation?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Oh, I have no idea. It's not mine and it's been around a long time.

[@KevShaw808]

Really looking forward to your builds for each school.

[@siddharthbianchi9322]

Technically their is an upside of mordakiens sword over crown of stars: a war wizard will get an ac boost

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Except I'm using Crown of Stars specifically so I can concentrate on another spell.

[@Vernoan3]

Yes, hello, I am a 13th level wizard and I just never use concentration spells for anything. Let’s take this one.

[@finnianquail8881]

would u rule planeshifting someone to the negative energy plane as an instakill (unless undead)

[@soldierswitheggs]

I just noticed that you missed reviewing the spells from Lost Laboratory of Kwalish. I don't know how many players have access to the physical book, but they're on D&D Beyond so they're not too hard to get. There are only three spells (Flock of Familiars, Galder's Tower and Galder's Speedy Courier), but they're all available for wizards. I'm getting a lot from these guides, so I'd love to see your take on these spells.

[@MLPAshkore]

Having recently got to level 13 and unlocked 7th level spells, Power word: pain leaves a lot to be desired. Is it debilitating? Sure. Does it sound cool? Definitely! Here is where my group and I kind of... picked it apart. You have 7th level spells, and if the target is at 100HP or lower, why not just kill it? Power word: Pain seems to be a "win more" card, or "we have to win harder!" One scenario where it can be useful is during an interrogation(depending on whats allowed/is not allowed at your table, DM has the final say). Honestly though, there are better options, and if your enemy is at 100hp or fewer, you are more than likely able to kill them.

[@nastube4052]

For plane shift not only do they have to link hands.. it has to be linked IN A CIRCLE. This is much harder to do in combat. But not much of a problem out of combat. :D

[@DefaultProphet]

Re: It can’t conceal, wouldn’t that just mean it should be invisible/transparent?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Yes, this is being brought up a lot, and re-evaluating, I think that's the intent.

[@SamSam-ke9zy]

1 high level caveat of Force Cage with high level. Those trapped inside the cage, yes get to saving throw to escape, but most high level creatures have resistance to magic and/or legendary resistance. Thus wasting a slot and becoming pointless. I hate legendary resistance.

[@RobKinneySouthpaw]

A PC who gets to the end of the campaign, and realizes that the nature of the big bad guy And the way they were defeated leaves the possibility of them coming back, might have sequester cast on themselves as They get on in years, with the trigger to be released if Mr evil guy comes back.

[@quonomonna8126]

adult black dragon miniature fits perfectly inside force cage miniature...would point out this black dragon is a pathfinder miniature though

[@jm7781]

An arch mage "Sequester" hinself untill the blood of a maiden paint red the white roses in his favorite garden. Bam, inta profecy.

[@joshrossman3796]

Delayed fireball is really good if your in a team that likes to be stealthily and you get the jump on the enemy.

[@karifox4980]

Once I played a wizard who used sequester to carry her clone in a necklace around her neck. The release condition was 'I die' so if she was killed her clone would be released and she'd pop up, take her gear from her body, and keep going. 1-up baby!

[@MattLathrum]

With no memories during the time she was sequestered, that could be awkward.

[@karifox4980]

@MattLathrum The Clone spell transfers the owners soul into the new body. All memories should be intact.

[@SystemLordNemo]

Since tremor sense is counted as "seeing" i don't see why one could not "see" a wall just by touching the wall.

[@fpanch0]

melee wizard are so chunky: bladesinger has two attack but booming blade on uses one; you still have a d6 hit die; tensor transformation is mediocre (purely more damage) on bladesinger, steel wind strike is decent. Looking at your older guides and others, I guess there are those bladesinger who muiltclass to be melee-orientated while full bladesingers are mainly wizard with some melee actions. So far I am playing a character that’s going rogue 2 / bladesinger X Mordenkainen’s sword is so bad haha, just give the wizard a knock off useless spiritual weapon.

[@davisoares2288]

I think you're right, but can you imagine a bladesinger wizard prepared for a combat? If you can prepare the terrain beforehand or if you have a demiplane, you could place some Glyphs of Warding to buff yourself with a ton of spells, like Haste, Greater Invisibility, Fly, Mirror Image, Mind Blank, Stoneskin, Tenser's Transformation, Shadow Blade, Protection From Evil and Good, Protection From Energy, etc. It would be really fun.

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

Force Cage really feels like a Conjuration spell to me. Wonder why they went with Evocation.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Usually force effects end up in the Evocation school.

[@tylergoerlich9494]

They should be abjuration

[@TheSkasupah]

My DM let me bypass the cone placement issue if I cast a cone spell while I’m flying above the enemy, then it’s just a 60ft area spell… but I do have to get to 60ft above them

[@TheOverDemon]

So, noob player here. I'm sitting here and beginning to wonder about the "blast spells" or single target damage spells you like. After looking through the videos it seems to be: Magic Missile, Flaming Sphere (combined with cantrip damage), Animate Objects, Bigby's Hand, and Crown of Stars. Is that really it? You talked about how you shouldn't use AoE spells on a single target back with Fireball, so that's not an option. And then there's the question of whether the lower of these spells remain good when upcasted? I'm beginning to wonder what you think a wizard should do when it's time to do damage to a single target? Do you just use these spells or take a chance with the circumstantial ones?

[@MightyMagnetmonster]

In treeantmonk's opinion blasting is not what a wizard should do primarily. You can read his philosophy in detail in his text guide: docs.google.com/document/d/1IeOXWvbkmQ3nEyM2P3lS8TU4rsK6QJP0oH7HE_v67QY/edit#

[@quonomonna8126]

can you cast the magnificent mansion while in your demiplane so when the spell expires you're in your demiplane?

[@coldfusion230]

A minor point about force cage you missed, it has a costly material component (not consumed). That means you HAVE to have it and you must have a free hand to get it out of your component pouch. This is a major downer if you're a warcaster as you would need to stow your weapon to cast it and thus cannot benefit from said weapon for the rest of the round. Still an amazing spell nonetheless.

[@binolombardi]

Minor illusion is the ultimate illusion spell. 1 action non concentration to create a stationary illusionary object to create heavy obscurement. By using other illusion spells for comparison, even if a creature passes the check for verification that the effect is an illusion, it becomes”faint” but can still not be seen through.

[@ZeroKitsune]

Um..."faint" does mean it could be seen through. That's...sort of the entire implication of the word "faint"

[@bahhumbug2072]

I could see Mordekainen's Sword being good if your BSF can wield it. Kind of like how using Glyph of Warding to cast Tenser's on your BSF is terrifying.

[@valentinrafael9201]

Regarding mirage arcane, it might be tagged as illusion, but there are illusions in dnd that are real ( shadow blade, phantom stead, illusory dragon etc. ). It simply creates something that isn’t supposed to be there. It’s like reality altering illusion, rather than smokes and mirrors as a minor illusion or a mind altering illusion as Mental Prison. Think of Shadowblade and Illusory dragon. They are illusions, but they can damage you. And I don't think it tricks your mind either. Lets say you are sleeping. Are you not goint to be physically affected by Mirage Arcane because you are sleeping and you're not aware in order to be affected? I don't think so.

[@Leafy1-j1l]

I'd also like to hear your thoughts about fixing bad high-level spells - how would you alter Prismatic Spray to make it a decent choice? I'd start with making the default "two effects per target" and changing the dam,age types a bit - less poison and fire, more necrotic and thunder.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Yes, that sounds reasonable. Though I think changing damage types might be a bit against the thematics of the spell. Would a prismatic spray really do necrotic?

[@thecognitiverambler8911]

No big fan of delayed blast fireball, but I could see it pairing well with a forecage right? DB fireball on or near the creature. Then forcecage it in?

[@cloudberry_6010]

Eh. Assuming failed saves, DBF is going to do 77 points of damage on average if you cook it for the full minute. Alternatively, you could cast a Wall of Fire inside the Forcecage, which over the course of 1 minute is going to deal 225 damage of the same type, with a 4th level spell slot.

[@thecognitiverambler8911]

@@cloudberry_6010 Point well taken! I definitely wasn't going to bat for DBF. Was just thinking out loud. But yeah, wall of fire would definitely outpace that!

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I mention moonbeam in the video. It will outdamage DBF on an opponent in a Forcecage and it's a 2nd level spell!

[@WexMajor82]

Or you could cast Sickening Radiance, and when he has failed 5 saves, the Tarrasque dies from exhaustion.

[@arnijulian6241]

reverse gravity my way. spell on (action phase) all in area make dex save and need fixed object good luck. we all fall (reaction phase) lv1 spell feather fall ring charge or slot. party fine and mob takes 6d per 10 feet and are prone. 70' to 100' fall 7d6 to 10d6 not bad but the prone go's unused if fall is 40'to 60' your feather fall party is on the floor by next turn and the enemy is prone. 4d6 to 6d6 plus a advantage attack against disadvantage attack crawling mobs that need to use an action to stand. but that not all friend when the spell ends in 1 minute/10turns you fall again and use feather fall. so double time sum of 14d6 to 20d6 per enemy for tall room and 8d6 to 12d6 per enemy plus 2 prone attacks. good cost for a 7th lv and 2 1st v spells. nice way to a 1st lv spell slot when high level. 3rd solt costly option can't use portals with no ceiling against suicidal non flying force horde or entered nest or barracks filled with hostiles. reverse gravity out of parties influence and leg it for 10 enemy suspended and 1 turn prone if you can't retreat in 11 turns or 5 turns if some hostiles aren't influenced nothing will save you.

[@nastube4052]

You can definitely destroy it with disintegrate.. but since it requires you to see it.. you'd, as written, need some way to see it.

[@junieb9446]

My thoughts? Mirage Arcane is a horribly thought out spell with an excessively convoluted description. As a DM I just ban it from my games. Hallucinatory terrain is fine, and can be used to make "real" terrain by an Illusionist. Mirage Arcane is unnecessary and just makes a mess, IMO.

[@placidas-esse4127]

I didn't think much of symbol until I realized it was a 10 minute duration. Having the effect you chose go off every 6 seconds for 10 minutes is quite insane.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

The duration of Symbol is instantaneous. The illumination and the debilitating effects have separate durations.

[@placidas-esse4127]

@@TreantmonksTemple "Once triggered, the glyph glows, filling a 60-foot-radius sphere with dim light for 10 minutes, after which time the spell ends. Each creature in the sphere when the glyph activates is targeted by its effect, as is a creature that enters the sphere for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there." I suppose my interpretation for the effects that last one minute is that at the end of the duration or when they save, if they end their turn in the radius they would need to continue to save against the effect. And the pain symbol based on that paragraph would trigger when a creature enters for the first time on a turn or ends it's turn there.

[@Madchemist002]

Delayed blast fireball works great with time stop

[@smile-tl9in]

an illusionist can make a mirage arcana real. Boom instant fortress, and you can change it's shape every turns. Makes for an epic encounter with an illusionist. I'd argue than when it become real floor do support weight and wall do provide concealment. Even without that the can still provide cover and if you use an inanimate object to conceal yourself then it hides that object and can conceal you that way

[@conradkorbol]

I was wrong about how it works It’s once a spell you can make it real for one minute, so it doesn’t work but for different reasons than I state d

[@jordyalcides]

Great video! Thanks again!

[@nastube4052]

So, can a Simulacrum of a wizard of the scribes also have a second manifested mind?

[@Praegressus1]

I believe so. Much like how a divination wizard doubles their amount of portents, necromancers could have two high cr undead under command undead, and abjuration wizards can double up their shields

[@siddharthbianchi9322]

If you succeeded your save against reverse gravity then an enemy failed and you were right under them could you make them take fall damage if you used repelling blast

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I'm not sure that works by RAW, but it definitely makes sense, so I image a lot of DM's (including me) would allow you to do it.

[@tomraineofmagigor3499]

I would give prismatic spray a blue rating for wild magic sorcerers because flavorwise they want to be random :D for a wizard I agree with your rating

[@anthonynorman7545]

Hahaha I was thinking the same thing! If I ever get a wild magic sorcerer that high, I'd feel compelled to take it.

[@kshea4231]

higher level spells always seem so meh to me, there really is only a few worthwhile standouts. I guess just using lower level spells to up cast is alright. just disappointing

[@Byssbod]

It takes a silly dm to say a purple worm fits in 20by20, even on a grid. For a gargantuan creature, 20x20 is only the minimum. There's no ceiling to the size. I think even Storm Giants, just huge size, should be considered too tall to fit in a spell only 20ft tall, with no saving throw anyway

[@nastube4052]

Magnificent Mansion.. uh.. do you watch crit role? This spell is absolutely amazing..

[@nastube4052]

Demi plane sucks as a rest spell. The only way you can get out is by plane shifting, then teleporting, since plane shift is random.

[@Duranous1]

You definitely can't do all that with Mirage Arcane, you're right it's an illusion.

[@ChristianW1975]

0 dislikes, as it should be

[@topgunbobby]

Don't forget about 10th level spells!!

[@M0ebius]

Is that the one where you smash the DM in the face in real life and set his books on fire?

[@TWCNarf]

Please write in title this is 5th edition.

[@quonomonna8126]

please review CREATE MAGEN