2024 Player's Handbook: Cleric Reaction video D&D 5.24

[@ThatsABallerCookie]

It absolutely kills me that they apply such sound logic about how punishing invoke duplicity used to be so they fixed that but completely missed the same exact issue with hunter's mark and the ranger

[@rayindc2074]

Indeed. Do all new WotC employees take an Oath of Enmity against the Ranger class when they join the company? This long-standing hatred towards the Ranger is even stranger, given that it's one of the most iconic fantasy archetypes.

[@deathtoexistance]

In a sense I agree, but you can't equate the two. Invoke duplicity again was an action with concentration that couldn't really combo with many things and certainly not for a lot of damage. Hunters mark without concentration was tried in the playtest. The issue isn't really a Ranger issue, it's a multiclass issue. If the spell is changed to be non concentration its an issue since other classes can access it through feats or subclasses. If it's a low level Ranger ability a small Ranger dip is far too effective. The spell can become too good without concentration if there is a low barrier to get it. Where I do agree is by making Ranger so dependent on hunters mark by level 9 or so you're really struggling between class features and high level concentration spells. Around that level Rangers needed an option to cast hunters mark without concentration not just protected from damage. If it was level 5 ish it would be too soon, people could dip Ranger for extra attack and hunters mark sans concentration, but level 9 or so is a big investment that limits multiclassing strength at early levels where it matters most.

[@rayindc2074]

@@deathtoexistance Here's an easy fix: "At sixth level, a Ranger who is concentrating on Hunter's Mark can concentrate on one other Ranger concentation spell at the same time, or vice versa." That would allow the Ranger to use their other concentration spells without giving up access to their main class feature (Hunter's Mark), but still keep the Ranger (or others) from doubling up on damaging spells by multiclassing.

[@Commodore468]

I am glad they really tried to make every class and subclass features not be concentration so those classes have access to their concentration spells and didn’t forget to do that with any class at all

[@grendl74]

I see what you did there

[@cueball6969]

At this point, in games I run, I'm gonna tell the Ranger that Hunter's Mark does not require concentration

[@GeninGeo]

@@cueball6969 Honestly id give it to them as a level 6 homebrew feature.

[@nexuiz64]

getting the notification from dnd's KZbin channel: me immediately: sweet, only a couple hours till treantmonk's new vid!

[@Sanglant4342]

Cleric level 20, I can cast wish once a day. Ranger level 20 my shitty concentration spell from level one goes from a d6 to a d10, heck yeah...

[@woutvanostaden1299]

RANGER: AKA the not so subtly forced to multiclass class.😢

[@aaronwilliams8887]

@@woutvanostaden1299 best capstone is multiclassing HYPE!!!!!!!!!!(sarcasm)

[@jakecalibach2057]

don't worry theres a 33% chance the cleric loses that feature permanently every time they use it

[@aaronwilliams8887]

@@jakecalibach2057 if you study wish it's most powerful ways to us it is to use it without risking losing it. Clone, Glyph of warding, simulacrum, contingency, the possibilities are endless and often game breaking. Mechanically you should never put that at-risk, but my players love using it(and I love it) when you use it for character/story driven reasons. Edit: for example had one character wished to break a devil's deal, another used a wish to reveal a key story maguffin. One of them lost it permanently for that use and totally worth it.

[@mythno394]

Really excited to see you go over spells and feats once the embargo lifts. Those are the real missing pieces at the moment to building out a character.

[@maegn]

YESSS!!! Hasn’t all this Treantmonk/ Chris been such a treat?!? I will miss this! Although I’m sure the new books means LOTS of videos to come! ♥️♥️♥️

[@Johnny5isstillalive]

We will FEAST in August

[@jonathanfrederic7292]

... Treat a Monk.

[@Marc.Google]

💙

[@morganhumphrey8135]

Screw using Divine Intervention on Hallow. I wanna see a War Cleric use it to cast Ceremony in the middle of combat to marry two allies a la Captain Barbosa. Other fun options include: Prayer of Healing in the middle of combat to let your allies dump all their Short Rest abilities (Action Surge, Focus Points, etc) and then get them right back to dump again, Glyph of Warding during a chase to give pursuers a quick middle finger, and Legend Lore to watch your DM’s brain slip gears as they suddenly have to lore dump the McGuffin they introduced mid-combat.

[@frankstuttgen5740]

Why only 2? Party Polygamy FTW!

[@NoNameBoi9987]

Casting lore this way is EVIL!🤣🤣 Reminds me of a player I had who would constantly cast detect thoughts mid combat. Eventually I had to have a chat with that player about how disruptive that spell could be. We came up with a compromise that the player would have to tell me what exactly they hoped to gain from the spell and it had to be directly and immediately related to the combat at hand. This way I didn’t have to come up with harpy #5’s inner most thoughts in the heat of the battle. It changed it from detect thoughts to detect battle strategy.

[@moderndavinci6599]

Imagine being wed as the BBEG ends the world I mean, you HAVE to win now. What about the honeymoon?!

[@stevenmathews9355]

Also Magic Circle or Planar Binding for trapping or compelling those big nasty creatures mid-combat.

[@GeninGeo]

If you dont have to worry about the casting time can you also ignore the concentration? Biggest problem i have looking at the cleric spell list is if you wanna do something cool as a warrior of the gods that isnt just healing the allies so that they can do something cool is every single thing requires concentration or they have a casting time so they cant be done in combat. wizards have the longest spell list the most spell slots and the spells that do the most damage. maybe spread those 3 things out so wizards have one clerics have 1 and sorcorrers have 1. My brain wrinkly some how beats Literally born from magic and literally blessed by the gods.

[@KawaiiAzusa]

So Divine Intervention to cast Prayer of Healing is an instant short rest in the middle of combat? That could be really really strong

[@brandonradosevich6989]

Exactly what I was thinking.

[@MrSeals1000]

The warlock in the party is gonna love this

[@danielbrintnall1188]

Mr fighter action surge again

[@zackglenn2847]

That's the sort of interaction you could design a party around.

[@dango2917]

I am not seeing anything about a short rest in the prayer of healing spell? (I'm a new cleric and want to incorporate this) Which one are you reading if you don't mind helping me.

[@InsightCheck]

That’s two videos this week giving me serious PTSD. Seeing no change to Divine Intervention is rough. Pack Tactics used it as a demonstration about how problematic it can be and we even spent a whole chunk at the end discussing alternatives. I fully agree that if it’s your thing and your whole group is on board, more power to you (literally)! But I do feel like it is more questionable as far as balance more broadly goes.

[@lucaslepesteur7846]

I might be a bit too noob to see the major problem in this spell, but seems like a cool way to escape a bbeg or at least try since they can make their save and still be in the area. Can you explain why it was such a problem? Most fights on the campaigns I play are in open fields or at least big constructions. (sorry for bad english, I'm not native)

[@luka2784]

@@lucaslepesteur7846I believe the main use is giving all the enemies vulnerability to the most common damage type in your party. Especially if you build around it, eg everyone using piercing weapons, that's going to massively swing the fight. Sure they get a save on their turn, but if you hold an action to cast hallow just after the biggest creatures turn you get at least a full round of vulnerability, which should be enough for most parties to take down even the toughest encounter.

[@Antisleeper]

I've been presented with the (compelling) argument that Divine Intervention DOES NOT contract casting times. All spells with a casting time of 1-action or longer are "Magic Actions." Divine Intervention "casts a spell." The "Magic Action" entry has a specific rule covering longer casting times. So, casting Hallow via Divine Intervention is a Magic Action that casts a spell -- no different than normal, other than it no longer uses a spell slot or material components (as specifically noted in Divine Intervention's description). While Jeremy cites a long-cast-time spell (Raise Dead), he does not say the casting time is affected at all.

[@Yarradras]

I understand it the same!

[@deonowl7773]

Wow removing Concentration from Class Feature given Spells is such a good QoL fix since it allows them to use other Concentration Spell without it becoming an inert Class Feature, I sure hope it catches on to all Classes but since we already saw it on Sorcerer and Cleric I have high hopes. 😃

[@kuzidas4213]

Yeah I haven’t watched the Ranger video yet but I can’t wait to see them remove concentration from class feature given spells!

[@kclubok]

@@kuzidas4213 They didn't.

[@grendl74]

​@@kuzidas4213prepare to be upset

[@earthen105]

@@grendl74 He knows... he's being facetious :)

[@OverkillDM]

I actually think we may be saved from action-Hallow by text from the playtest (if it hasn't changed) regarding spells with a longer casting time. "...If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so..." The feature (in UA at least) says "As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing material components." But it is still *casting* the spell. It has not said that the casting time has changed, all it has said is that the magic action used to choose the spell is the same as the magic action to cast it. Once we've cast the spell though, we still need to use the magic action each turn.

[@jjsquidbeard4831]

The update to "Turn Undead" is also big lift to DMs! Okay, all the zombies are turned and need to dash away? Nope, just keep them in place but they don't do anything. Ah shoot, I made a custom Undead monster but didn't calculate a CR for it, does that mean it's immune to the Turn Undead destroy feature? Nope! It can still take some damage.

[@YellowCable]

IIUC the undead still move away from the cleric, just not dashing

[@Shalakor]

@@YellowCable Nope, instead the Frightened condition just prevents them from approaching the Cleric, but does not require them to use their movement to run away. They could try strafing around at the same distance away from the source of their fear instead if they so choose, such as if they're trying to reach something other than Cleric in that direction. (As a DM, I probably would rule unintelligent undead without specific orders would default to running away, though.) And then the Incapacitated condition prevents them from taking actions.

[@danfernandesmusic]

Jeremy explaining that the Channel Divinities' no longer require concentration just ignited my rage once again at how poor the new Ranger class is with its heavy reliance on Hunters Mark

[@redeyejedi9940]

I hate that they did all this no concentration for other classes but the ranger still has to concentrate on hunters mark…

[@lucascarey4056]

Thank you Treantmonk for all the work you’ve put into these previews!

[@TVMAN1997]

There is a brief mention of bringing 2014 cleric subclasses over to the 2024 Cleric class. So I hope they elaborate more on that for other classes too

[@verby3069]

They said you can combine anything from previous books including two players playing base classes from either book. It is designed to be backwards compatible despite some weird interactions like Shepherd druid

[@TVMAN1997]

@@verby3069 I wish they would go in depth and do an example for each class and how that looks

[@brilobox2]

@@TVMAN1997 it mostly looks like moving any pre-3rd-level things granted by old subclasses to 3rd level.

[@TVMAN1997]

@@brilobox2 I figure that is what it is too but a guide for it would be helpful.

[@CatOnFire]

​@@TVMAN1997 They have said that there will be guidance for this interaction in the 2024 PHB, so we should get more info sometime after the 1st when the embargo lifts.

[@matthewdavis9966]

WotC should be paying Chris for his translation skills 😂

[@vindex57]

Ah yes, vague corpo talk translated to english.

[@DSTkunn]

I always appreciate the flavor of thaumaturgy being linked to clerics in the older miracles kind of aspect of the term.

[@kdaviper]

There used to be a thaumaturgist prestige class in 3.5 that basically combined cleric and wizard

[@moonlight2870]

​@kdaviper no that was theurgist. Thaumaturge was a summoner basically.

[@kdaviper]

@@moonlight2870 I stand corrected!

[@Ardenithar]

So, let me get this straight: Rangers HAVE TO concentrate on the spell their class features are build upon in Hunter's Mark, but the War Domain Cleric does not need to concentrate on their Spectral Weapon? Then, one of the best goodies Rangers have ever had in Steel Wind Strike is also given to the War Domain Clerics by default, who by the sound of it get it at level 9 while the Rangers get it at level 17? At that point, this is no longer a Ranger Spell that War Domain Clerics get, but more a War Domain Cleric spell that Rangers get as a near capstone ability. More War Domain Clerics will use this spell more than Rangers ever will. The entire section about the War Domain Cleric is basically screaming "Hey Rangers, remember all those things we told you can't have? Yeah, we gave those to the War Domain Cleric for free!". This is a clear indication that there is no parity between the design philosophies behind these classes. This feels as if no play tester that played War Domain Clerics have touched the Ranger, leading to very weird discrepancies.

[@deonowl7773]

The thing is that they did test a concentration-less Hunters Mark (UA2 - Expert Classes) and it did great in polls, fantastic even. However it most likely got nerfed out since it was deemed to strong in Multiclassing (which used to be an OPTIONAL rule). But somehow Spiritual Weapon and Shield of Faith, which a lot of people consider better then HM, got though concentration-less

[@dreamwanderer5791]

The only word I can think of for this is just.....unfair.

[@nm2358]

I had the same feeling watching the Cleric reveal and Druid reveal. With Cleric, there's multiple points were "we took off concentration for this," or "this subclass when do the thing takes off concentration," to the direct benefit of the Cleric's power as a full caster. With Druid, they're talking about how Wildshape can use spell slots... which based off the argument Crawford made during the playtest that because Divine Smite uses spell slots, it should be a spell... yet the same rules aren't even remotely applied to a core feature of Druid in Wildshape. Like, from the outside looking in, it either feels like we're being lied to about why some things have been changed, and why others haven't, or, there's totally different design metrics being applied to fullcasters and half casters when it comes to spellcasting. I mean, Eldritch Knight fighter has a better blend of its spellcasting with Fighter features than Paladins and Rangers have as halfcasters with their spellcasting, and it doesn't make a lot of sense, lol.

[@kclubok]

Steel Wind Strike was never a Ranger spell that other classes also got. It was a Wizard spell that Rangers also got. But yes, it is annoying that so many Ranger features require one particular use of concentration. If you don't like Hunter's Mark, don't bother playing a Ranger, it seems.

[@dakila101]

I feel like there's a way to bypass the Hunter's Mark - Multiclass Problem if they really wanted to, example: Starting at X Ranger level, you can concentrate on another Ranger spell while concentating on HM. HM concentration no longer breaks from dmg.

[@rodneygriffin7666]

This has become my favorite D&D channel. Great insights, Great channel! Thanks Treantmonk!

[@nickpalframan]

I like these little breaks in rules with getting concentration free spells in limited capacities. Makes you really appreciate the power of the mechanic (when done right). My one concern for the War Cleric is their main features of getting a bonus action attack conflicts with them getting a concentration free Spiritual Weapon (which also uses their bonus action). Though maybe they compliment each other better then I think since they are both limited resources.

[@JasonTaylor-ro8ei]

We appreciate the time and effort you put in to these!

[@StarRightStarTight]

This video does sort of make me think that WotC should probably establish a friendly relationship with 3 or 4 of the biggest optimization influencers to call out abusable exploits BEFORE they get printed

[@Woeboez]

Honestly, it's rather ridiculous that they haven't already. These are well paid professionals that have been on the job for years and years..

[@fakjbf3129]

They did that for 4e and the reaction to that edition is probably a big reason why they don’t.

[@Woeboez]

@@fakjbf3129 Could be. That was the wrong lesson to learn though

[@luka2784]

At the very least get some intern to watch the videos!

[@deanrutland9047]

“I shine divine light in an enemy’s eyes to make it miss and this gives my friend temporary hit points, for some reason”

[@calvintabor5734]

Speaking of them making the book usable with previous subclasses: with the kensei monk you could stunning strike with a longbow now. Cool interaction, and you could definitely build around it! It would be interesting to see how many cool interactions like that are created with new rules interacting with old subclasses.

[@Melorific]

I'm looking over the UA6 divine intervention feature again and wonder if it really works like we think it works. From the feature in UA6: "s a Magic action, choose any Divine(Now reads: Cleric) spell of 5th level or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing material components." Quote from the Magic action: "If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so." Divine intervention uses the magic action to cast a spell. Just with the added feature that you can pick any cleric spell From the way I read this interaction. Casting a spell using divine intervention might not be any different from using the magic spell to cast any other spell. It wouldn't affect the cast time at all.

[@rexkreamer]

Crawford himself said it was made with the intention of using Raise Dead. That is a 1 hour casting. They meant to make this ability be able to do long casting times in 1 action

[@Melorific]

You can cast raise dead with divine intervention. You cast it with the magic action. You thus follow the rules of the magic action. Nowhere in divine intervention does it say to ignore the magic action's rules on spell casting times.

[@Kailokel]

I really enjoyed 3.5 damaging undead with healing spells, so that'll be a fun thing to bring back.

[@mrmuffins951]

That’s hilarious that Todd mentioned the diamond economy

[@Shalakor]

I'd argue that a 1 action long casting of Hallow does very well fit the flavor of Divine Intervention, even if it's overpowered mechanically. That's like one of the top things I'd think makes sense to happen when directly calling on your god to intervene on behalf of a certain location. Only ever asking your deity to come to your aid after something terrible has played out to completion instead of preventatively is kinda dumb. Probably should NOT be allowed to happen without fail immediately after you first gained access to 5th level spell slots, but at least eventually. ...Can see it coming quite in handy for more secure Bastions on the cheap, so it might not have actually been an oversight? Oh man! Yes! The unexpected reveal that the Monster Manual may be bringing back negative energy fueled creatures that can be harmed by healing magics from previous editions is a huge thumbs up for me. ...That said, since this is supposed to be a presentation about finalized design, though, I do feel that it was highly unprofessional to let slip anything about ideas that may not make it to print. I'll be hugely disappointed if it actually doesn't go through. It's a good thing Warding Flare has always been its own resource, since Radiance of the Dawn has always been such a strong Channel Divinity option, being great in even a neutral combat situation with a lot of additional situational utility. Man, he makes such a good point about this Trickery Domain change. Sure would be terrible for a single feature to lock you out of a spell list full a great concentration spells. Glad there won't be any of that in the 2024 rule now. And certainly not as a main class feature instead of only a subclass feature. Yep, absolutely nothing stands out as something to be salty about with this line of thought. Nothing at all. Oh, look, War Domain can ignore concentration on some things as well. But it is a bit of a shame that Guided Strike and War God's Blessing will be competing for the same resource now. Since I'm getting to this video a day late, I can just end things here and go straight to the Bard video now.

[@ethanabla2509]

53:48 I really hope he's talking about the weapon mastery here. The playtest let you make the bonus action attack whenever you want and that was the change I was most excited for. Allowing you to attack as a bonus action on the turn you cast a spell was so cool and I want that to stay.

[@Awoken0]

Yeah, they removed Weapon Mastery for the official version.

[@barcster2003]

I'm guessing it's the weapon mastery which is a bit sad but ironically now means I don't feel as beholden to pick protector.

[@thereal_starboy]

I’m here for Treantmonk’s divine wisdom

[@adriangoetz5108]

11s, my best time yet

[@giltigt]

35s for me, pretty happy about that too

[@TheDisplacerBeast]

You were literally first!

[@CivilWarMan]

Regarding Divine Intervention and Hallow, it definitely fits the flavor of the ability about as well as Raise Dead does, but one homebrew idea for people concerned about breaking the game is to rule that Hallow cast using Divine Intervention has a set duration. If you want to have it last until dispelled, you'll need the component and the 24 hour cast time, but if you are casting it with Divine Intervention because, for instance, the party is surrounded by an unreasonably huge undead horde and they need an emergency panic button to help prepare for it, then the Cleric's deity can give them that cover, but it's only going to be good for, to just throw out a random number, 4 hours.

[@santiagosaracho2271]

Me parece buena idea

[@mqb3gofjzkko7nzx38]

Even if it only lasts for one minute, it's an extremely powerful safety zone that you can throw down in the middle of a big fight.

[@benjaminrheault4998]

So great to be getting all this coverage from you! Cant wait till august when you can cover everything you've been waiting for!

[@UltimateMustacheX]

To be fair, your deity could totally bless an area with Hallow when you call on them. It may take you a day of prayer and ritual to do it yourself, but for a god, it's a simple task. So it may not be great from a balance/mechanical direction, but it totally works from a narrative perspective.

[@tridentgreen3346]

The Hallow Intervention tech is something I’m 100% going to talk about with my cleric player, my game is kinda huge on Undead and Fiends and I could 100% see this breaking encounters, especially on such a versatile spell. I’m honestly up for just making this spell 6th level maybe and shortening the casting time to 8 -12 hours as compensation. You could still access it via Greater Divine Intervention so 20th level is still going to be hell if we play a lot then but eh you could reasonably get scarier spells with the same Wish. I realize WoTC can’t for backwards compatibility reasons but it’s definitely going to be an important tech to talk about.

[@nealeagator]

8:20 - WOTC loves Chris so much they put him in their book.

[@justink4051]

Weirdly hallow is the only spell I can think of that has this issue for divine intervention looking through the spells Clairvoyance takes up concentration and Planar Binding is casted at its lowest level so It's likely that most players will not interact with this issue for any other spell. Maybe prayer of healing now that it gives a short rest?

[@elliotbryant3459]

Planar Binding, Geas and Glyph of Warding seem like they could be problematic. It also adds a design constraint on future spells [-and maybe domain spells?] accessible to clerics

[@mqb3gofjzkko7nzx38]

I think creating an inverted Magic Circle around a boss monster is problematic too. Unless they have a way to teleport out, the fight's over.

[@master_rafiki]

Chris, I haven't seen an in-depth, thoughtful discussion on the impact of moving subclasses to 3rd level across the board. I'd love to see how that shift will impact overall gameplay and especially multiclassing. I hope you jump into that with the content you're planning once your NDA is lifted.

[@noblesword5583]

Thanks Chris! you're my go to for creative builds and reviews. Thanks for putting these together and look forward to Aug.

[@davidedwards3206]

Hose rule for new Divine Intervention: Keep the no reaction restriction, but add a restriction of a casting time no longer than 1 hour. This allows for Raise Dead, ext, but prevents the broken spells like Hallow.

[@Fairburne69]

No Tempest Cleric makes me very sad. A rework of that subclass is something I've really wanted to see. It didn't need a lot but it needs help for sure.

[@Joje1981]

Will it be in the Player's Handbook thou?

[@Fairburne69]

@@Joje1981 That's my understanding based on the video and What TreantMonk said. Looks like only 4 Cleric subclasses. If I'm wrong someone please correct me.

[@tantalus_complex]

​@@Fairburne69 Every class is only getting 4 subclasses in the 2024 PHB. Any other subclasses they will be reprinting in later supplements starting (almost certainly) next year.

[@AtelierGod]

But if they printed it in the PHB they couldn’t sell it to you later, D&D is “under monetized” as it is and they need every one of your Pennies so they can sell you more overpriced books with to little content.

[@Fairburne69]

@@AtelierGod Lots of bad stuff there that I agree with. Luckily for me I'm splitting the coat of the 3 books with 2 other people I always play with. For others who don't have that option, I feel bad.

[@jellybunz8357]

Was literally refreshing the page waiting for this to release.

[@collin4555]

I feel like it was the point for destroying undead to be all or nothing, since it was already an add-on to turning undead, but making CR not be mechanically relevant is a good change (particularly since CR is often a little haphazard). I think what I would do (and may in my own reworkings) is replace the CR threshold with an HP threshold, so that it 1. continues to work against weaker undead that you've outleveled, and 2. lets you use it against stronger undead as a finisher, provided you've softened them, but doesn't just make it another attack.

[@chiepah2]

Really kicking the Ranger while they are down aren't they? That's Extra Spicy.

[@williambradford6575]

The reason Hunter's Mark is like this is because if it's anything like the Playtest version eventually you are getting Advantage on every attack against the target, +3d10 damage per round, and you can't lose concentration on something that lasts 24 hours. It would then be able to stack with Conjure Woodland Beings giving you an aura dealing an additional 5d8 damage on failed WIS save or half as much on a success. It's too powerful.

[@ZaxPBG]

@@williambradford6575 If you are right and the spell is soooo amazong, they should have released it with the class video.

[@chiepah2]

@@williambradford6575 I understand where you are coming from, but I'm the rare person that doesn't advocate for hunters mark being concentration free. I think they should give the ranger a feature that doesn't punish them for wanting to concentrate on a spell other than hunters mark. What would that look like? I don't know, but "Your class feature is a buff to a spell that prevents you from using other spells" just feels bad. Imagine Wizard got that treatment, all of their other features get turned into a buff to Witch bolt that are all really good and make it into an amazing spell, I mean a Witch bolt that you don't have to use every action on, doesn't absurdly end, hold it and move it as a bonus action, does more damage, has more range, gives the target disadvantage on things, you know, turn it into a real powerhouse of a spell that could really be nice to have... but all that go's away if you want to use wall of force.

[@shirak8]

Cleric simulacrum for everyone.. Giving wish to clerics gives them access to every wizard spell up to lv 8... which is crazy.

[@Surge-kk6ew]

War cleric seems very fun, concentration free shield of faith is great. Run into the middle of combat with spirit guardians and Bonus action attacks

[@woutvanostaden1299]

I imagen a war cleric/eldritch knight multiclass to be quite something. 11 fighter/9 cleric, we get attack, extra attack, nick's extra attack bonus action attack bonus action second attack and we haven't even used action surge, any cantrips or a dragonborns breathweapon yet. Oh also of course we are going to be having fun with sentinel reaction attacks and weapon mastery. 😊😮😂🎉😊

[@Surge-kk6ew]

@@woutvanostaden1299oh that’s nasty, even just battle master with riposte benefiting from improved armor class and things like bait and swtch and commanders strike to still be a support style character. And it’s all back on a short rest. If divine strike works on reaction attacks it would be even better

[@woutvanostaden1299]

@@Surge-kk6ew There are SO MANY ways now to send the DM into a panic! I hope you like traumatizing your DM with shenanigans. 😁🙃😇😉😂😁😆🤪😊

[@barcster2003]

@@woutvanostaden1299 totally forgot that nick totally allows war cleric to work with it now.

[@AtelierGod]

@@woutvanostaden1299at that level you can stack holy weapon onto your attacks for 2d8 per attack and your blessed strike or whatever it’s called will likely add 1 or 2d8 more damage to one more attack.

[@Slaughterhouse_Floor]

Can't wait for August 1st.

[@mikecarson7769]

once again, fun to follow your review and commentary! i like the new balancing of "turn undead"

[@dallisjohnson662]

I'm so happy to see so many fun and versatile changes to the cleric.

[@deanrutland9047]

• Clerics can use these cool class features without concentration! Rangers: no way! • And we’ve given them a really cool Ranger spell Rangers: 😠

[@stephendavis7327]

And instead of a capstone ability that gives +2 average damage on a hit, they get Wish. 🎉

[@deanrutland9047]

@@stephendavis7327 “I use wish to grant me and my 9 mates immunity to Hunter’s mark for 8 hours”

[@ericpowell8563]

I can’t wait for one of Chris’ builds to go viral next year and hit a million views and for the channel to have over 100k subscribers

[@Shindashi]

I'm eager to see what the expanded spell list looks like (please hit us with this in August!). Having few options other than Spirit Guardians at higher levels was awful, and the 2014-Tasha's spell list was so uncreative I've often had to try Create Food and Water mid-combat just for something interesting.

[@elliotbryant3459]

I feel the same, could never get really that into clerics. Prepared casting seemed kind of wasted on them for lack of spell variety

[@Marabcd315]

I'm not crazy on the details of divine intervention for the same reasons you brought up but I do love the general approach because it guarantees that a cleric player actually gets to use the feature. Obviously actually pulling off the roll must be exciting but I wouldn't know, I've played in two parties with clerics that got past level 10 but they never actually got it because they didn't want to waste it on something not super good because of the cooldown and the times they did want to use it they just never rolled under the target number

[@Reybakk]

Thank you, Chris. I hope to see a 10-hour video from you on August 1st with a review of the entire PHB

[@fraidnaught9067]

Healing spells damaging undead goes back way before 3rd edition, the earliest example I actually KNOW off the top of my head is Final Fantasy II in 1988. I assume that came from somewhere though, likely an even earlier version of D&D.

[@drewenders150]

Great video as usual. Treantmonk, when you review each class for your Aug videos, could you please consider reviewing the journey from 2014, through the playtest, to their respective 2024 destinations (like a "before and after")? I think it would help DMs like myself understand where each class grew and how to challenge my players in meaningful ways.

[@targetdreamer257]

Sure, sure, sure casting Hallow at action speed is bad a$$ but let's not forget; Prayer of Healing (for some out of combat healing now in combat, Planar Binding (to gain try and bind a CELESTAL, an ELEMENTAL, a FEY, or a FIEND to your service also during combat), Geas (to tell a creature to just go home), and ... Wait for it... gLYPH OF wARDING! Giving some one a Cleric concentration spell of 3 or lower AND the don't have to concentrate on it? *shiver* My inner Magic the: Gathering Timmy just popped his head up. ComboTastic!

[@barcster2003]

I mean thematically it works. I didn't think about glyph giving a concentration free spell though.

[@Cyolx]

Savvy DMs about to make their entire dungeons and boss rooms already under the effect of a Hallow spell.

[@shinom0ri]

Are we sure Hallow is still in the spell-list in the new PHB, or that it is unchanged? Chris probably checked it out before addressing it, but since he he is still under the NDA he really can't confirm or deny...

[@Cyolx]

@@shinom0ri Hallow is an original PHB spell and WotC has repeatedly stated that all 2014 spells will be in the 2024 PHB. It may have been updated in some way, but it's extremely doubtful it's been cut.

[@shinom0ri]

@@Cyolx Sure, but as already demonstrated, some spells have been completely reworked. I agree with your sentiment though. It's more likely than not, an oversight by WOTC.

[@collin4555]

About to? It's a great way to justify no-teleport zones! Every Big Bad Guy should have an evil high priest on their staff

[@jacobleach7408]

Just hope monsters are buffed accordingly too after seeing how impactful that heal from div intervention.

[@SortKaffe]

I like that the Spiritual Weapon playstyle is reserved for a single subclass even though War (and Trickery) Domain will be extremely Bonus Action hungry.

[@Fallanir]

Talking about the Trickery Domain's old Invoke Duplicity shutting down your own class because of concentration and action economy...*looks at the new ranger design*...

[@someusername9591]

So ready for all my Short Rest allies to burn through their resources and be at low health, then use Divine Intervention to use Prayer of Healing giving everyone an immediate short rest. 🙃

[@timjensen4320]

DI Hallow is strong and often will be the best in combat use, but not sure how broken it is unless the whole party plans for it and coordinates all dealing the same magic damage type. It definitely shuts down certain creature types in an area but nothing stops those creatures from leaving said area. And it can be dispelled/countered. I'd call it disruptive but more at the level that wall of force is that worse. I'd be more concerned with them spamming this during downtime to hallow a bastion or town.

[@bgibeast]

I'll never understand why they changed it from necrotic spells healing undead and healing spells damaging undead... it made the most sense and was thematically cool. It also meant you could simply take Inflict Wounds etc if you wanted to heal a friendly undead party members, as rare as it was.

[@captainrelyk]

I’m worried new divine strikes doesn’t allow for extra thunder damage, or poison damage, or necrotic damage or fire damage, things that were very flavorful for things like tempest clerics or nature clerics.

[@barcster2003]

I'm hoping they get more useful features/spells.

[@frankstuttgen5740]

I’m ALL about the 6 second Planar Binding!!

[@TheRekabNivek]

I feel like there have to have been enough people in the responses talking about Hallow (which is the only spell that really seems overly abusable) based on your video that maybe they made a change to the spell, though I guess Chris would know Given it has a 24 hour casting time, they really could have just chucked in "Any Cleric spell with a casting time of 8 hours or less" in there and it would be the only one blocked out. That or it's intended 🙃

[@elliotbryant3459]

Glyph of Warding and Planar Binding could be really strong as well. At least going by the 2014 versions

[@biodude15]

I think divine intervention could be limited by saying any spell with a casting time longer than a minute has the casting time reduced to 10%. Its removes really long casts from combat, but still provides use for out of combat time crunches.

[@jonathanwynes2542]

War Cleric Archer was my first 5e character. I was excited by the playtest and have to say I’m a little disappointed by that it seems like I still need to use my Attack action to trigger the BA attack. It was nice to be able to cast an action spell and still get the BA attack. Also, why Spiritual Weapon? Aren’t I supposed to be using my BA on weapon attacks? It just seems like anti-synergy unless there’s stuff in there that has changed enough to make it work…. Still excited to play it.

[@ryangentry2003]

Maybe Divine Intervention should still have a “Possibility Roll” but make it a wisdom check or save with the dc being 10+spell level.

[@daanopdebeeck2312]

I'm really looking forward to seeing what they did to the Bard! My guess is they can pick spells from the Wizard, Druid or Cleric spell list? Which basically corresponds with the previous Arcane, Primal and Divine spell lists because this feature was so popular. Certain spells became class specific to protect their class identity so the iconic Ranger, Sorcerer, Warlock or Paladin spells will not be for grabs I predict.

[@reedsmith8975]

Excited for trickery cleric

[@guamae]

Most memorable Turn Undead experience: Fighting Vampire Spawn in a dilapidated shop in the middle of town. Party is *clearly* outnumbered. Turn Undead! Half of them jump out windows and run away. Party finishes half that remain. One minute later... The party hears screaming and the sounds of slaughter in every direction 😬😬

[@timeforsuchaword]

The changes to trickery from UA6 are not too surprising. Giving the duplicate at 3rd level effectively a concentration-free version of far step (5th level wizard spell) was never going to stick, and the level 6 feature (cast illusion spells as a bonus action) was almost unusable due to lack of access to illusion spells without multiclassing. It sounds like the only thing the trickery cleric gets after level 3 are upgrades to their duplicate though, which feels kind of narrow.

[@barcster2003]

I think as long as they keep what was written in the playtest in terms of duplicate it's still pretty good.

[@indigoblacksteel1176]

My first character for 5E was the Light Domain cleric in Curse of Strahd. I used Warding Flare all the time. I didn't really have another use for my reaction anyway, and with my Cleric having a VERY high AC, imposing disadvantage frequently meant changing a hit into a miss.

[@multiclass234]

An optimancer with the most optimized upload times. HYPE

[@TheGloryXros]

TOTALLY agree with the changes for the Light Domain. It always bothered me that thematically, that Subclass is supposed to be about Light, yet it mostly had Fire spells.

[@BMKoolaid]

Thanks for doing these reaction videos Chris! They are so much better Han the straight versions!

[@R3DM4G3]

The change I want to see is for clerics to actually get attention when new spells are introduced... since launch wiz/sorc has gotten some 120ish new spells while cleric has gotten like... under 20?

[@MrJerks93]

I get what he's trying to say with divine intervention, but describing it as a bad mechanic because the player has to ask the DM if they can do something and then having it determined by a dice roll IS the entire game! ;)

[@RevocerGM]

5:20 - some Marvin Gaye begins playing in the background

[@williamtaylor6886]

The Trickery cleric in my current campaign could have used that teleport option this weekend.

[@sillvvasensei]

It doesn't sound like Divine Intervention changes the casting time. It just doesn't expend a slot and doesn't require components.

[@aparadoxicalone]

Regardless of what the rules say, this is probably how I’ll run it… or at the very least, make a pre-approved list of spells that can have their casting time shortened for use in combat

[@MannonMartin]

2014 Turn undead does actually state that turned creatures cannot use their reactions. Bonus actions are not mentioned. Interestingly in the 2014 rules if the undead has nowhere to go it CAN dodge for it's action. From the sounds of it 2024 maybe does away with that, which would be a small buff making turned and trapped undead easier to kill. The 2014 rules are also worded strangely. Turned undead MUST attempt to move as far away as they can, but there's a second part stating that they cannot move to a space within 30 feet. The second statement seems either pointless or directly in conflict with the first. Surely an undead can move through a space within 30 feet while attempting to move further away? So then does the second statement mean it merely cannot end it's turn within 30 feet? But if that's so what if the undead's movement is reduced to 5 feet and it's within 10? Is it incapable of moving? Does it only apply if an undead is outside of the 30 feet and thus cannot move within 30 feet to try to get to a path where it can move further away? That would imply that a turned undead can move closer to the caster in an attempt to move further away in order to get around obstructions. But is that how we interpret "must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can"? Wow... I thought I knew how 2014 turn undead worked. Turns out I have SO MANY questions! Sounds like they hopefully cleaned up the edge cases in the 2024 wording.

[@andrewmcdonald3607]

I don’t know if WOTC know how valuable you are to the community. You’re an absolute asset and a legend! Keep making videos!

[@broomemike1]

They mailed him an early copy of the book. I think they know:)

[@matthewhood7635]

I think it would depend on the changes to Hallow, if any, to judge if Divine Intervention will be a problem. I agree that it should be a conversation with the DM and Cleric Player. I'm curious to see if and how Hallow changed, because it currently has some interesting worldbuilding applications that I would like it to keep.

[@KevinVideo]

Yeah, it was 3.5 where you inflict wounds healed undead and cure wounds would hurt undead. Speaking of 3.5, clerics getting access to the wish spell at 20th is very reminiscent of them having the 9th level spell, miracle, which was a cleric's version of wish. I'm happy with turn undead getting a buff so that you do damage instead of just cause them to run away. The only problem I see with the new version is people are still not 100% sure on how incapacitated works. I've seen people say that moving is still an action, and the condition removes the ability to use actions and reactions. The only thing I really want changed from the life domain is the limitation of not being able to get healed if you have 51% or greater health.

[@insanogeddon]

True to lore which is great for ALL players. There was a time ~everyones first character in a new group was a cleric, like an initiation thing, so most older players have a soft spot for the class that popped their DnD cherry. Some of us imprinted and still gravitate to them no matter the ed.

[@gystes_]

Not surprised about spiritual weapon still having Concentration, but I hope to whatever diety the cleric worship that they AT LEAST improved the range!

[@jypsridic]

I don't play 5e but I've watched most of your content for the last two years which might not make sense but one of my more prized digital possessions is a copy of your Guide to being GOD from the old WotC boards. I've been looking up to you for nearly 20 years.

[@sportybrian]

I think I'd rule Divine Intervention doesn't change the casting time, as it's the cleanest modification to prevent abuse. Maybe an exception for the first Raise Dead of the week. The reasoning is the interpretation that "as part of the same action" just means you start casting whatever spell so if it's one action it still only takes one action, but a ten-minute spell still takes ten minutes of praying to your Deity (or whatever you pray to if you don't follow a Deity). Or maybe it takes ten minutes for your Deity to get back to you / dispatch a minion / do some bureaucracy... I can imagine even a one-action spell is delivered by an angel materializing immediately after the end of your turn (would also explain why you can't use Reaction spells) - perhaps that's the cooler interpretation: it's actually a summoning spell (but for spells with a range of self the minion is casting through you, like how you can cast through familiars).

[@djskead]

What if it takes a Bonus Action? You're using this class defining ability to burn an Action to use a Magic Action, and then also your Bonus Action just for that one spell? Seems very clunky.

[@sportybrian]

@@djskead That's really the opposite of what I was worried about, but you are still casting the spell without consuming a spell slot (or material components), so there is still value in this feature. Up to you if you want to use it on a bonus action spell - none of the existing spells would be worth it to me, and even if I choose Holy Weapon, it'd still be concentration-free. But that's just me, in your game you can agree a free spell slot isn't worth using an action.

[@sportybrian]

Also no one said "also a bonus action" - the class feature explicitly said "as part of the same action" - even in my variant where the action is a summon, it never costs a bonus action.

[@djskead]

​@@sportybrian There are 2 spells (Shield of Faith and Sanctuary) that currently are Bonus Actions and have a Material Component, but they don't consume the components so it would be almost worthless to burn a level 10 feature for it, and on top of that they don't scale with level so even casting at level 5 doesn't provide you anything extra. Even in the case of Raise Dead it allows you to use it on a corpse that is no older than 10 days, and is naturally on the Cleric spell list so what exactly is it doing for you? Long rest and prepare it the next day. It really points to the advantage of it is being able to use it on the spot *and* on demand. Finally people with the pdf version all seem to think it operates in the way Chris presented it. We'll find out for sure when it comes out, but seems to be as advertised.

[@loud_ratel2726]

Very excited! Thanks Chris! 🎉

[@Rallykat]

I think every table where a cleric has arcane eye is going to have someone make the joke "don't you mean divine eye (¬ ͜ ͡¬)" PS: This will be me at my table

[@Cassapphic]

That weird aside about healing spells damaging undead monsters really excites me, from games like final fantasy having that be a common trope, it was something my players hoped would work in 5e, and I liked that line of thinking so decided to improv a specific effect for it to have. (I was using edited zombies that had one revive to half health rather than chance endless revives to be less of a slog, attempting to heal them disabled their one revive)

[@ZaxPBG]

So concentration was an issue for the core of the Trickery subclass, but not the core of the Ranger class....

[@robertheitmann8821]

Free Raise dead: 🥱 Instant Free Hollow: 😳

[@starrfish92able]

loved the mean girls reference 😂

[@5-Volt]

I'm ecstatic about the Light Domain! It was already a solid subclass & one of my favorites so improving it only made it better. One of my only nitpicks is warding flare having to be used before the roll while being a limited resource.. This was addressed in BG3 because it can be used after the roll & was made unlimited. It's interesting how they addressed it here. Not unlimited but getting all uses back on a short rest is fine. Not getting to use it after the roll is kind of a bummer but getting temp HP address that because if it still hits then you effectively reduce damage & if it misses then the temp HP persists. Cool change tbh.