Treebeard’s Bravest Moment Was REMOVED From ‘The Two Towers’ | LOTR Explained

[@factorfantasyweekly]

New year, new editing style! What do you guys think? Still figuring it out and might change some of it, so comment any ideas you have!

[@Mrjoemill123]

I like it subbed recently and watched all your videos. Great video

[@reeceemms1643]

You mean with the still instead of using clips. It's ok.

[@SuStel]

Much better than watching the same clips over and over, especially when describing scenes in the book that don't happen in the movie. I'd actually started not looking at the screen when watching this series.

[@TheWanderingFire]

LOL, I'll be honest, I had to watch it a second time and focus on the images before I noticed. I usually listen to the differences and think about the matching passages from the book, and don't really pay attention to the images. Well done, it clearly wasn't jarring! 😅

[@ATVatcher]

#notmysam

[@ericsommers8947]

Quickbeam is one of my favorite characters despite his short stint in the story. He isn’t just skipping the Entmoot to hang with Merry and Pippen, but he’s already decided he will go to war with Isengard because they cut down some of his favorite trees. Although he is ready to fight, he isn’t shown as angry or tough, he’s often laughing and enjoying the beauty of nature. It’s one of the moments that we see a character who isn’t here to fight against the Enemy, but to preserve the beauty of life.

[@DisFantasy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought his name or nickname was "Rocket"?

[@matthewvandyk7773]

​@DisFantasy it's quickbeam and he's also my favorite LOTR character.

[@ericsommers8947]

@@DisFantasy to the best of my knowledge he’s only other referenced name is Bregalad. However, I’m not super versed in the translations of Tolkien’s languages to ours.

[@Malfuin]

I love how we went from counting differences to counting "similarities" the moment we set foot in Osgiliath. 😆 As always, great work.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

The magically appearing hoard of ents (after they'd already decided not to go to war) was definitely one of the silliest moments for me

[@mevb]

Sam's line "By all rights we should be here... but we are." hints at the fact that the hobbits never go to Osgiliath in the book, as a nod to the fans of the books.

[@juergen_von_strangle]

😂😂😂

[@solicitr666]

Additional fun fact: "Quickbeam" is a colloquial English name for the rowan tree (from Old English *cwic-beám*); Treebeard was very fond of rowans. And Tolkien of course can't resist a linguistic joke here, since "quick" here means "alive," not "fast" (qv "the quick and the dead")

[@irena4545]

You mean, Quickbeam himself was, not Treebeard. It's Quickbeam who talks about the rowans he knew and how they were destroyed.

[@TheWanderingFire]

_The Two Towers_ was my least favourite of the film trilogy, mainly because of how absolutely backwards the portrayal of the Ents was. In the book, they act (relatively) hasty in making their decision to go to war with Sauruman. This is mainly because they are already aware of Sauruman's treachery, and are no longer influenced by his voice when they go to discuss the issue at Entmoot. Treebeard is basically already in favour of going, he just has to gather up more Ents to help. After I first saw _TTT_ in theatre, I immediately spoke with a friend (a fellow TLOTR book nerd) and said to him (in an effort to warn him so he wouldn't storm out of the theatre when we went to see it together), "They've made Treebeard into a giant chicken!" My friend looked absolutely wrathful and said "He's actually a giant chicken?!" Given all the changes that were made to the story in the first film, and all the rumors running wild about the production on the internet, he thought I had meant a giant CGI chicken had been substituted for a walking tree-man. 😂 "No, it's WORSE than that, Treebeard doesn't want to fight Sauruman!" I wailed. My friend threw something breakable across the room and said stuff you can't repeat on a decent website. Feelings were high when those films came out. 😂

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Man I wish they would’ve made him a giant chicken. Would’ve been funny.

[@TheWanderingFire]

@factorfantasyweekly Yes, it's quite the visual when you think about it. 🐔

[@fr.andygutierrez5356]

The new editing style looks great! Fantastic job, as always 👍🏼😊

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Glad you like it!

[@lordofuzkulak8308]

13:55 - given the Ents declare they wouldn’t be going to war, they appear suspiciously quickly when Treebeard calls them in the movie after he sees the devastation of Isengard. Iirc, it’s implied that Treebeard walked a fair distance after leaving Entmoot before he got to the deforested area, but the other Ents show up seconds after he calls for them. Did they sprint all the way to be able to do that, but never show off such speed afterwards? Or were they already on the way to attack and Treebeard’s reaction to the site of the deforestation was an act he put on for Merry and Pippin’s benefit? And if it’s the latter, what was the point of saying they wouldn’t attack? Why not just tell the hobbits that they will attack Isengard, but want to wait until the hobbits have gotten to safety, and then have the hobbits fast talk their way into joining the attack instead?

[@rikhuravidansker]

I would think the Ents and Huorns were following Treebeard out of respect for Merry and Pippin.

[@TheMarcHicks]

So not only is it an unneccessary change to the original narrative, the change also ends up being just bad writing. Also, how would two hobbifs who have never left the Shire be aware of this deforested site? Made zero sense to me, and still does.

[@TheMarcHicks]

​@@rikhuravidanskerWow, that's a logic leap......especially for the Huorns.

[@differous01]

The Huorns in the book move swiftly in a kind of mist, and some Ents are seen shepherding them at Helm's Deep, so Ents do appear to share this magical form of locomotion.

[@TheMarcHicks]

@@differous01 its still extremely lame and poorly written.

[@TerbullSpuller]

Gollum actually has an incredibly beautiful moment of indecision in "The Stairs of Cirith Ungol" while Frodo and Sam are both asleep. For just a paragraph or so, it looks like maybe, just maybe, he'll get redeemed before the end, and then Sam wakes up and breaks the spell. As a young child, I can remember thinking Gollum was going to become a hero, then being angry at Sam for destroying that chance. Jackson's version of Gollum's inner conflict and Sam's abrasive manner is, of course, heavier-handed, but this probably is because it'd be impossible to put that moment on film without a narrator.

[@zack_feldman]

The omission of quickbeam made me sad when I saw the movies in theaters. He was my favorite character from that book, and I was so bummed we got less time with him and the others. Though, objectively, the fact the ends make a quick decision to attack Isengard in the movie is the worst change. Ents, by their nature are slow and methodical thinkers. Would have liked the marching song, and the wrath that comes with it.

[@mevb]

The flaming ent in the movie seems to be inspired by Saruman's insdustrial fire attack which burned a oucple of ents, though in the movie the ent was set on fire with fire arrows instead. On a side note, after deciding on setting the ent of fire, Peter Jackson regretted this decision as his kids might get upset by it, so he decided to have that ent rush to the flood to get his fire extinguished.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Treebeard wanted to say he'd fight but unfortunately he said it in Entish and there wasn't enough film on the set for Peter Jackson to sh,oot it.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

😂

[@RoboSteave]

You know, the two versions of LOTR remind me of the way news is reported today. The movies are like the first reports and the books are the story after a thorough investigation. Consider what happened in New Orleans. First reports: not terrorism, others involved, explosive devices planted. Later: was terrorism, acted alone, no explosives. So, Jackson is doing the early report while Tolkien gives the story after thorough investigation. Food for thought. Now go buy some food for your stomach and have a Happy New Year!

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Very true very true. Now if you’re gonna spend money, at least go get a t shirt or something so you get something in return. 😂

[@RoboSteave]

@@factorfantasyweekly I do not give you this out of charity. Rather, you're the one Gibby with real spirit. Also, I've been at the Gaffer's home brew. By chance.are the T-shirts made of mithril?

[@factorfantasyweekly]

For legal purposes I neither confirm nor deny if the shirts are made of Mithril. 👀

[@lida7529]

Regarding the short visit of Gandalf in the Isengard while the Ents were collecting water: This is when Gandalf asked for the help of huorns in Helm's Deep against the orks. Without this visit, the Rohirim would have lost their battle after all.

[@peteranderson3796]

I'd like to point out that Faramir shooting the fell beast is probably taken from a scene in the Fellowship book where Legolas shoots down a fell beast at night on their way down the Anduin.

[@SuStel]

It's too simplistic to say that Tolkien had Gollum bad all the way through. Tolkien had Gollum ambiguous all the way through. Jackson takes Gollum on a roller coaster ride, as you call it, but this isn't more complex; it's just more obvious. Tolkien gives hints as to Gollum's thoughts, particularly when Sam overhears him, but he never lets the reader feel certain which way Gollum is heading. Tolkien excels at keeping things vague so the reader can try to fill in the gaps, but Jackson changes this to a more obvious leading the viewer by the nose. I've watched a lot of reactors seeing this, and they all say "Kill him" at the same moment, "I kind of feel bad for him" at the same moment, "Oh no, Gollum's back" at the same moment, and "Oh no, he's going to betray them" at the same moment. This demonstrates that Jackson successfully implemented his changes, and that they are the obvious roller coaster ride.

[@Mr_Timi1]

How can I not love it... because it changes the nature of Faramir, because it was Peter Jackson trying to course correct because of his earlier sins, because it wasn't in the book and doesn't make any sense....

[@mickaleneduczech8373]

I really wish they'd shown the ents taking down the walls and gates of Isengard. Slowly twisting them, like tree branches warping them over many years, but condensed into a few minutes.

[@ATVatcher]

A wraiths spotting Frodo in Osgiliath would have been 'game over'. Sauron would have half-emptied Mordor and flooded the entire region.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Yeaaaa, which means the only reasonable explanation is that it didn't know it was Frodo but thought it was some stupid kid who ran on top of a building to sacrifice himself for no reason?

[@ATVatcher]

@factorfantasyweekly 🫡 Love it! 'Cops: ringwraigth edition.'

[@jamesblackwell7752]

These are so fun to watch. Thankyou so much.🙂

[@factorfantasyweekly]

They’re fun to make! Thanks for watching 🫡🙏🏼

[@therongjr]

The Ent attack on Isengard was my favorite sequence from all three movies.

[@ragnvald420]

Good breakdown😎 but in your intro you said that the Ents broke Orthanc. That was about the only thing they couldn't do. They even hurt themselves trying to. I'm liking the videos, keep them coming

[@rdbury507]

MvM is finally back! I was starting to get withdrawal symptoms.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

👏🏼

[@apostolos1415]

I don't have any problem with the changes Peter Jackson made in the movies. But what i cannot understand is why he made the ents not want to fight. That change just doesn't make sense. And also, i believe that it was important to include Faramirs supplys to Frodo and Sam. It would make sense to have supplys from Faramir, at least until the stairs of cirith ungol.

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

It seems to me pretty similar to the changes made to Aragorn; making them initially reluctant before eventually confident gives them some onscreen character arcs so they don’t come across as too one dimensional or as Mary-Sues. It’s difficult in the film medium to not have that happen, unfortunately.

[@TheMarcHicks]

@@jefffinkbonner9551 ludicrous padding out of the run-time with fake "drama" & fake "tension" that makes little to no narrative sense. Sadly this was a precursor for the ludicrously bloated Hobbit films.

[@differous01]

Legolas senses the mood of the Huorns on arrival at Fangorn, and by the time Treebeard compares Merry and Pippin's arrival to small stones which start an avalanche, it seems the indecision of the Ents is all that holds the Huorns back.

[@TheMarcHicks]

@@differous01 That was Gandalf who said that thing about the stones....at least in the books.

[@TheMarcHicks]

@differous01 Gandalf: “It was more than mere chance that brought Merry and Pippin to Fangorn. A great power has been sleeping here for many long years. The coming of Merry and Pippin will be like the falling of small stones that starts an avalanche in the mountains.”

[@CAPTDILLIGAF]

Gollum’s decision to use Shelob was reached all the way back in the pits of Dagorlad and not in Ithilien.

[@headrockbeats]

I may be the only person on the planet who thinks this, but I found Sam's speech at Osgiliath to be the most tedius, sappy Hollywood bait I'd ever seen. By this point in the movie I was already starting to feel exhausted with the blatant and very obvious attempts to pull at my heart-strings by reconstructing the plot and the characters. Fortunately the movie had been so good by that point, and after that point, that I came out happy anyway - but I still cringe every time I get to that part during a rewatch. I can almost see the writers sitting down and patting themselves on the back for writing that moment. Apparently it worked - just not for me. Ecch.

[@TheMarcHicks]

Nah, you and me both. I barely even remember the speech now, tbh, as I had all but switched off by that point and was pretty much wanting to leave the cinema.....but I do remember being very unimpressed.

[@irena4545]

It didn't work for me, either, but I had already been dissatisfied with most of the movie, so at that point, it didn't really matter.

[@andrewvincent7299]

PJ got the Ent's wrong in the movies. They're supposed to look more like trolls with almost branches coming out of them. As Treebeard said in the books, Trolls essentially came from Ents. Trolls are the corrupt form of Ents.

[@antisback]

11:17 Where are the ents going? They're taking the hobbits to Isenguard

[@1958PonyBoy]

In the movie they also removed Merry and Pippin drinking the Ent-Draughts while they were with Treebeard. That made them grow so that they were some of the tallest Hobbits around afterwards.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Yep! Technically in the extended edition there's a scene of them drinking some, but it is way different. Check out episode 26 of this series to learn more!

[@gauravw6947]

You are wrong, it’s in the extended edition…

[@Shinigammi420666]

Happy New Year Gibby!!!!

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Happy new year!

[@bigmikebeebee]

Thanks Gibby! I've been anticipating this video for a long time because the change of the entmoot decision has always been my biggest complaint in the whole film trilogy (although they're my favorite movies ever). There are good filmmaking reasons for many of PJ's changes, but this one has always seemed infuriatingly pointless to me, plus it led to a lot of weird illogical things happening in the following scenes.

[@EALS-pb5rs]

The tales that really matter speech is one of my fav parts of the movies, because it's about storytelling in general. It's such an abstraction of thought that I can hardly hate how it was adapted. I still dislike pretty much some of what preceeds the scene tho, but the movies still earned the right to have that speech.

[@mevb]

Treebeard does see the destruction of the trees by Isengard but it happens even before he meets Merry and Pippin, though he tells them about it. His line "Many of these trees were my friends. Creatures I known since they were nut and acorn. They had voices of their own." is from the book, which he tells the hobbits (though I don't quite remember if he says that in his "house" or on the way there, but I think it's the former). I also believe that he does say "A wizard should know better!" when he talks about Saruman, in the same chapter. The reason for the changes of the ents deciding against going to war while Merry wants them to help out the help their friends and to stop Saruman, and Pippin to trick Treebeard to the edge of Isengard to make him see the destruction of the forest, is to add drama and to make Merry and Pippin in more active roles instead of "being dragged around like luggage" as they describe it in the book. It does also give a shift of hope when you see ents do march after Treebeard dsicovering the destruction of Isengard.

[@TheMarcHicks]

"Add drama". How utterly lame. All it did was to add another 10 minutes to an already overblown film, just to arrive at the same place the book does anyway.....and it makes zero narrative sense to boot. It always fascinates me how far Jackson fans will go to defend even his poorest film-making decisions.

[@gauravw6947]

⁠@@TheMarcHicks So says an ignorant bookworm with zero knowledge on filmmaking and cinema… Characters from the books don’t always work out the same way in movies, because they are both two different mediums… PJ made the already established characters of Merry and Pippin more active in convincing the Ents to go to war and added more to their character arc… He couldn’t put everything from the book and then make it into a lousy, lengthy fest like the books…

[@Bsully144]

Damn it! I’m finally caught up… now I have to wait a week for these?

[@mevb]

For the Nazgûl on its Fellbeast flying in front of Frodo and was close to snatching him, is inspired by a later part in The Two Twoers book (which was in the Miramax draft, where it was two movies instead of three as Peter Jackson and the team at Wingnut Films had doubts that any studio would ever make three movies, the climax for the first movie would have a Nazgûl attack at the top of Annun Hen on the same ruins at Frodo does get on top of in the final version, concept art can be seen on the Appendecies DVDs for The Fellbeasts showing this early version) where Frodo puts the RIng on and he sees the Nazgûl on their Fellbeasts fly towards him but he takes it off when they're miles away and since they can't see him anymore they fly away. This was told by Tolkien Illustrator and concept artist John Howe in the Designers audio commentary for The Two Towers.

[@SuStel]

I feel like "I mean, come on" is not a very good justification for the Osgiliath scenes.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

It’s not meant to be a justification for the Osgiliath scenes 😂 I’m talking about the speech.

[@AJ0223]

The bit with frodo and the nazgul is in my top 5 dumbest things in these movies for sure

[@lorddarkrai5753]

Movies are Fellowship Of The Ring > Return Of The King > Two Towers Anyone who has both watched the entire trilogy and read every book to form the credibility to the source material film ratio , knows this is the correct ranking. Saying this as a die hard fan.Minas Tirith battle is the only battle Tolkien describes exactly like it's portrayed in the movie , from start to finish , from the first catapult throws to the last Oliphaunt being slayed.Helm's Deep battle has so many extras to tell the truth.Tolkien always focused more in the journey of all the 4 Hobbits than the big battles.However , since he initially insisted the third book be named "The War Of The Ring" it perfectly explains why Tolkien also focused in battles with exceptionally more detail in the third book.Some facts I am happy to share!

[@TheMarcHicks]

......and here it is, one of the two moments in the Two Towers where I almost got up and walked out of the cinema. This alteration by Jackson-like the one for Faramir-did nothing to improve the narrative, and actually felt like a giant middle finger to Tolkien. Though I did stay for the rest of the film, this is the point where I resolved to only watch Return of fhe King on DVD.

[@Niko-hi5my]

Don't be so hasty, Peter!

[@simoncss1]

20:05 Agreed, Sean Astin’s Sam’s delivery is outstanding, why all the hate? A good adaptation will only bring the story to more folks who might come to appreciate Tolkien’s Middle Earth for their 1st time & they could go on to learn the actual lore for themselves. Sam: “…they kept goin, because they were holdin onto somethin.” Frodo: “What were they holding onto, Sam?” Sam: “That there’s some good in this world, Mr Frodo. & it’s worth fighting for.” + Howard Shore’s accompaniment in the background. I don’t know what it’d take to make me to walk thru fire & water with them but if words could do it, Sean Astin’s rendition would more than suffice. Up there with other best quotes from Peter Jackson’s trilogy, including the likes of Sir McKellen’s what to do with the time we’re given.

[@ATVatcher]

The movie also nerfed the Ents.

[@moeburhanimeez7354]

Oh man! I will be sad once we reach the end of Return of the King. Nice videos BTW! I just got the Two Towers Book to read for myself!

[@marijatripkovic1272]

The new editing stile is great Kant wait for The return of the King

[@lordofuzkulak8308]

19:43 - if we want to try and headcanon an explanation, then it’s probably worth noting that when he was stabbed by the Witch-King with a Morgul Blade at Amon Hen, Frodo started slipping into the wraithworld. While he was prevented from slipping all the way by the administrations of Elrond, it’s plausible that he still had one foot in the wraithworld, so would’ve had a more noticeable presence than the men around him and thus would’ve stood out more to the Ringwraith.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Interesting analysis! Good way to think about it

[@rikhuravidansker]

@@factorfantasyweekly I thought it was obvious that both Book and Movie Frodo have a connection to the Unseen World.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Yea but idk if it’s strong enough to warrant that type of attention from the Nazgûl.

[@TheMarcHicks]

It wasn't Amon Hen. Amon Hen is on the Anduin, where the Seat of Seeing is located. You're thinking of Amon Sul-aka Weathertop.

[@lordofuzkulak8308]

@@TheMarcHicks good catch. Must’ve had a brain fart when writing the comment. 😅

[@Saltharion]

At 19:35, why is it you think that the fell beast would not be able to see Frodo? Sure, the nazgûl can not "see" in the midday sun, but Aragorn states at weathertop that their mounts have exellent sight. Sure that is their horses specificly, but i don't see why the giant bird things should have bad vision. Birds often have outstanding vision.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Yea but I guess people get upset at the idea that the fell beast would somehow know that Frodo is the target. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Saltharion]

@factorfantasyweekly i mean every other damn thing seems to know to target frodo, so why not the thing trained in mordor, ridden by a ringwraith.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Haha true!

[@irena4545]

The fell beast definitely would have seen Frodo, but above all, the nazgul would have sensed the Ring

[@Connor-Skywalker]

The scenes in osgiliath may not be in the book but I liked it because frodo was close to loosing the ring may it be faramir or the nazgul who flew over it and the quote from sam

[@therakshasan8547]

May the writers and director spend a millennium in purgatory for every time they made J.R.R.Tolkien to turn in his grave .

[@DrHackmoff]

I can see that for the writers and directors of "the rings of power" ,but I always got the feeling the movie makers got respect for the books even backpaddling some of the worst decisions like "arwen the super hero" for example

[@rikhuravidansker]

It's the fault of the CEOs.

[@TheMarcHicks]

​@@DrHackmoffwhat utter garbage. The Two Towers movies have multiple scenes that are flat-out middle fingers to Tolkien....and Return of the King is even worse. The changes make zero narrative sense, pad out the run time, and undermine some truly amazing characters. Yet still the fanbois defend it. Yet this is the reason why both The Hobbit trilogy *and* Rings of Power even exist.

[@DrHackmoff]

@@TheMarcHicks I loled

[@hirancpatel1]

I'm not sure how the movie could have integrated the Merry and Pippin's story into the plot of the film without creating some drag and some considerable length. For pacing this was a good idea but some of the changes make little sense other than as you say in previous videos to not conflict with other departures earlier on in the film. Stylistically the Ents of the film were amazing but the book Ents were not as tree like as depicted. Audiences no doubt would have considered them a type of troll, otherwise. I really enjoyed reading their chapters. The ending of the film is really good but the splicing of the 2 pairs of hobbits' journeys' is most telling here. If the studios were braver or if the films were being made in the Twighlight and later Harry Potter eras then the two arcs would have been split into two films. I went through a spell of watching one arc at a time. I would skip the 2 other storylines and then go back to the 2nd arc and then the third arc (Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli). I forget how the Merry and Pippin arc ends. My multiple copies of the book are in storage at present. But I think the Frodo and Sam arc ends on or close to the Choices of Master Samwise chapter with Frodo already captured by the Orcs in Mordor. Personally that would have been a better cliffhanger than Gollum crying and plotting.

[@Niko-hi5my]

Another big change is that the movie stops here. If Two Towers was cut off at the same point in the plot as the books it would have to be made very differently: Frodo + Sam’s story in Two Towers would have been much, much, much better. I can’t stress this enough. As we got it in the movies, their challenges are to tame and put up with Gollum and to convince a bloke they meet half-way through the movie to let them continue their quest. Combine this with little screen time and it feels like a B-plot. (By the way, why didn’t they introduce Faramir earlier, similar to Theoden and Eowyn who appear long before our folk gets to Edoras?) If you go on like in the TT book, the Gollum story is more rounded off with his betrayal as climax, their challenge is to conquer the pass into Mordor and they have an amazing finale fighting off Shelob (probably with more involvement from Gollum so it makes more sense). Sam learns Frodo is not dead, but captured by orcs. End of movie with a great cliffhanger. Impact: You don’t need to invent the trip to Osgiliath. You can have Faramir truer to the books. The ring-bearer’s story still feels like the main storyline. The main reason they didn’t go so far was that there was not much left to do for them in part 3. So they would probably have to add something on their journey through Mordor, and that story has to include Gollum, otherwise he only turns up on the slopes of Mount Doom. I see that creating a compelling story arc there could be difficult, as it’s only gloom. So maybe TT was sacrificed for RotK? On the other hand we did get an invented trip to Osgiliath so you can still argue this point. The Rohan storyline: You’d have much less emphasis and screen time for the battle Helm’s Deep. (Think the end of Dune 2 where there is a huge battle, but you see only as much as you need to bring the main protagonists to where they need to be). The movie climax on this side would NOT be Helm’s Deep, but the confrontation with Saruman at Orthanc. This would obviously have to be built up differently throughout the movie and would have to be significantly expanded. Stakes would still have to be high, i.e. a defeat through Saruman’s magic or voice still possible. Think Gandalf fighting Saruman - Epic! It would also include a major turning point, which is that Saruman was influenced by Sauron and using a Palantir to communicate with him. (So obvs you don’t give that away in part 1). Gandalf finds this out after Pippin looks into the stone and sees a vision of the siege of Gondor. Double-cliffhanger! Pros and Cons here. I understand why they did what they did. For starters I’m not a fan of this kind of cliffhangers when you have to wait for a year until the story continues. Even though book readers in the 50s had to. I guess my point is, either way you could have done movies for a big mainstream audience.

[@soccermarvel982]

1st age sauron vs Battle of the Dagorlad sauron sauron vs melian

[@rikhuravidansker]

I don't get it.

[@amoskrahn5049]

Can you please do the Chronicles of Narnia books vs movies.

[@reeceemms1643]

Wait a minute doesn't the Return of the King movie start off with showing Gollum's origin? The whole thing with Saruman (Which probably happened because they either A ran out of budget to do the Scoring of the Shire, or B just wanted to give a happy ending) happened after the title part. Also at the end of return of the king please do not go through every little thing from the Appendix at the end of Return of the King.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Yes, next week’s episode is on Sméagol and Deagol and then after that it’ll be about Saruman’s scene! And I don’t plan on going over the appendix in this series haha

[@rikhuravidansker]

@@factorfantasyweekly I suppose you will be mentioning the appendix in regards to SPECIFIC (obviously not the whole series or films), scenes in "The Hobbit," "The Rings of Power," and "The War of the Rohirrim?"

[@factorfantasyweekly]

If specific events are mentioned then yes. But for the most part I try to stick to whatever corresponding pages there are in the book to the scenes on screen. So if it doesn’t relate, then I won’t dive into it. Maybe way way in the future when I’m smarter and have been doing this longer. 😂

[@rikhuravidansker]

@@factorfantasyweekly If you do, I suppose you will also dive into specific scenes from the video games and tabletop games, which would be interesting: the 1980s tabletop games would have tie-in booklets, which would make them semi-canon. Also, ROP said they extrapolated what happens in the show from canon, meaning that what is not shown in canon was created by the showrunners using guesswork based on logical conclusions for what we know of canon: they also made inferences based on at least some of Tolkien's influences. I intend to watch "The Making of the Rings of Power," which so far has two 44-minute episodes, one for each season: I believe for instance it says that the Worm of Numenor is supposed to be a Nameless Thing, as silly as that sounds. It would be interesting to a critic of the show to review "The Making of the Rings of Power" and sees how well the extrapolation holds up, since my defense of the show's deviations is based upon the extrapolation, along with it being set in the Jackonverse rather than canon, the fact that some of Tolkien's writings are unpublished, and the fact that there are deleted scenes.

[@CAPTDILLIGAF]

In all of the movies, the changes are not small or even medium. They are ENORMOUS! Some are a necessity whenever you adapt a written medium to a visual medium. The rest are completely unnecessary and pointless. The movies might be judged good, but must be judged as poor book adaptations.

[@irena4545]

Not only are they poor book adaptations, they aren't that good solely of their own merit - too many cliches, repetitive actions, drama for the sake of drama, heavy-handed, on-your-nose scenes.... never watched them a second time.

[@SurnaturalM]

The trilogy is still 100% better than anything hollywood / amazon can produce today.

[@LostHorizons0]

The books are so much better sorry

[@DisFantasy]

Overtime, the PJ films may end up being regarded as good films, but bad LotR films.

[@wescobb8071]

This is easily the worst stretch of the entire trilogy of movies. None of it makes any sense - especially the ents doing nothing and then changing their mind because treebeard screams (isn’t it their job to already know about the forest’s destruction?). Also the whole Osgiliath plot radically undermines Sauron’s motivations for attacking Minas Tirith early.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Well said

[@RoboSteave]

Hey, where did my reply to Gibby's first reply to me go? Did it put on the Ring and disappear?

[@factorfantasyweekly]

I see it 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@RoboSteave]

@@factorfantasyweekly Weird. I see your two replies, but not mine. Oh well, as long as you see it.

[@DreadArkive]

Still baffles me how much hate War of the Rohirrim gets over "butchering the source material", but are huge fans of these movies.

[@irena4545]

Henneth AnnUn, Cirith Ungol - every single "u" is pronounced as in "put", not in "but". The pointless trip to Osgiliath and the Ents deciding not to fight have a common denominator - poorly written drama for the sake of drama, solved in an illogical, over-the-top way, which is slowly becoming PJ's trademark at this point.

[@pbfletch6802]

If any one who doesn’t like to read books you should at least listen to the audio book the lord of the rings one is done by Phil dragash and the hobbit is done by Bluefax they are really good

[@hawk7780]

Mary and Pippen are annoying and if eliminated from the book there would be no difference.