The SECRET Stealth Fleet of Starfleet! - Star Trek Explained

[@jonathanfairchild833]

Section 31 wasn't supposed to officially exist. The idea was that only a handful of outsiders through Star Trek history ever get to know about it. Having its own fleet, the personnel to run it, security-types running around, and it's own delta badge all makes no sense. The new Trek writers broke the whole idea. It's too big now. They turned it into a federation Tal-Shiar.

[@EyeOfTheWatcher]

Exactly, they would be using ships from various different species to hid there identify. Also, they would not have specific uniforms because they are undercover organization.

[@SuperGamefreak18]

@@EyeOfTheWatcherlike having their own call signs and symbols that’s different but being a secret organization that completely stands out unless the reason their ships are difficult is for sensor cloaking is silly.

[@jonathanfairchild833]

​@@EyeOfTheWatcherVessels that can pass as civilian cargo ships.

[@AutomatedPersonnelUnit_3947]

I dislike where that series is headed..... into the badlands

[@SuperGamefreak18]

@@AutomatedPersonnelUnit_3947 the dark of trek have we arrived

[@alfonszitterbacke318]

According to the new Star Trek movies, the section 31 ships were so top secret that one of their officers displays a model of the dreadnaught for everybody visible on a shelf in his office.

[@fadelsukoco3092]

To be fair, Marcus would probably just say that it was a model based off of a purely conceptual ship in a thought experiment where engineers were told to go crazy in designing a possible warship that could beat something like the Narada.

[@Jamfox-b8q]

And then the ship crashed into a city in Earth

[@Duros1394]

Section 31 would not have Federation "style" ships. A super secret organisation would use opposing species ship styles or use holo emitters similar to the Romulans in enterprise.

[@BluegrassGeek]

Disagree. They're going to want a few classic Federation ships to "hide in plain sight" while going about their routine. Covert ground operations can be conducted as they pass by in their normal looking ship. It's only situations where they need to engage in enemy territory that they need unique designs that don't scream "Starfleet."

[@komagaming6069]

@@BluegrassGeek right, maybe Starfleet designs for the ship and shuttles/runabouts of different races, for different missions

[@stuartcolley6612]

While I think S31 is way overused after their introduction in DS9, their ships legit look pretty rad with some badass capabilities. I'm just spinning here, but how cool would it have been if Riker shows up with the mothballed S31 fleet instead of all those Inquiry class ships that were cut and paste. Pic- Will, where did you get these ships? Riker - Gotta know where to look Captain. There's a lotta hidden notes in jazz sir. Or something

[@deathgnomes]

Those Defiant class ships just had the Section 31 Cosmetic Shield appearance toggled on 😉

[@evalramman7502]

Section 31 was NEVER meant to be what it is currently portrayed as. Gods, these new folks in charge? Terrible.

[@AutomatedPersonnelUnit_3947]

It's utterly awful

[@RickRichard-s6t]

The only bits of disco that worked were just setting up a completely new show with strange new worlds and then the cool bad guys of section 31 get turned into a disco spin off movie pure yuck

[@MrTilbin]

That sound of the Vengeance comming up on the Enterprise and them spinning out of control from warp still gives me shivers.

[@_Omega_Weapon]

@1:19 The Vengeance is an awesome ship, despite it being in a terrible movie that spat on The Wrath of Kahn. The Nimrod class drone dreadnought is pretty sweet too, I have the Eaglemoss models of both (plus 100 more 😅)

[@davidgriego549]

I would choose the USS Vengeance

[@thebruce7880]

I can't take a super secret organization with it's own fleet of ships, special uniforms, and the absolutely hilarious inability to stay secretive about any of it seriously.

[@reddyredwolf3931]

The thing about the Anaxamander is it looks like a stripped down Defiant class. Blinking lights in place of the pulse phaser cannons, no torpedo tubes, phaser emitter at the front section.

[@charlestownsend9280]

When it comes to the ships seen in discovery, maybe they were all decommissioned afterwards to make sure that none of them were compromised by control and weren't secretly storing control or a copy of it or some left over commands. I could see the federation playing it sade and just getting rid of the ships to make sure that the threat was fully dealt with.

[@MacTX]

Khan transporting from Earth to Qo'noS was bad enough. The photon torpedoes detonating inside the Vengeance was the most unbelieveable part of that movie, that's when the movie went from bad to stupid and everything unraveled. These are matter/antimatter warheads, I guess the writers forgot what they were writing about. That many photon torpedos detonating at once would be about the equivalent of a warp core detonating.

[@PhilipWeberAB]

I love the section 31 ships. I’d use either the Nimrod class or the NCIA-93, it’s such a cool design, and one of my favorite Eaglemoss ships.

[@joeykerr5517]

I like the idea of them having stealth ships with "dark mode" and the holo-disguises. The rest was ridiculous. I don't think we ever saw Sloan's ship. It could've looked like almost anything to go to DS9 though.

[@jg5571]

One thing they never explained onscreen (unless I missed it), was the reason why nacelles had to be in the positions they were in. It wasn’t until KZbin that I learned more about the mechanics. The only thing you learned from onscreen was it created a bubble.

[@focusedonfuture3255]

An S31 Defiant class ship 1st appeared in Star Trek the return. It was the USS Monitor. Black coated and had a cloak.

[@IAmTheAce5]

I always found Section 31 more interesting, not as an unacknowledged _official_ organization, but rather a 'movement' of individuals that all come across and covertly spread awareness of that one line in the Federation's charter. And instead of founding an institution in the Federation, they remain essentially stateless and decentralized, approaching individuals for service in covert missions with or without their knowing the covert purpose, all based on whether those they approach feel the Federation's optimism can stand on its own merits, or cannot... As Sfdebris' Chuck Sonnenburg pointed out, the audience can then believe at least one of two things- either the Federation is not as idealist as presented or expounded, so of course they would have a coercive organization to uphold Federation dominance... ...or... ...One can take Section 31 as a reactionary group that _presumes_ to uphold Federation power and prosperity purely on their own initiative and while being completely unsanctioned and in some way simply undetected as a coordinated vigilante movement.

[@samphadhavihara4035]

One of the few things I could agree with, would be that Section 31 would be heavily involved with automating their ships up the wazoo, simply because they don't have the manpower pool that Starfleet has. For "personal" ships, they'd only have enough for a small taskforce. Maybe one Eclipse Cruiser, bunch of Defiants and a bunch of Phantom escorts (or something akin to them) and no more than 7 to 13 of them in total. (And those would only be made post Dominion War as an Ace up their sleeve, for when foreign tech ships wouldn't be able to get the job done.) Any other ships they had would belong to Orion Pirates, Klingons or Romulans. (All known to use cloaking tech.) And that's simply for false flag operations. Additionally, even then we'd be looking at the "lighter" ships like the B'Rell Bird of Prey due to the smaller crew complements. (So maybe around 52 to 58 ships max. Could be less.) Again, they don't have the manpower of Starfleet, even more so as they also have heir regular Operatives a la Sloan to field. Add in the cell structure of the regular operatives and only the top brass of Section 31 would even be aware of their "fleet". That would be somewhat believable. Course their Federation tech based ships would be beyond cutting edge technology. So Hexa cannons on the Defiants rather than Quads before the regular Federation even cracked how to make them and definittly wouldn't know how to put it on a Defiant platform. You get the general idea. 🤷‍♂️ (Also their shipyard wouldn't be in Sol, rather in either a lost or forbidden system to keep out any unwanted "guests".) As for why their own ships? S31 has its up and downs and most of their downs involve trying to have suborned Starfleet crews a la the Cartwright Conspiracy. Having crew solely belonging to S31 and who aren't on file, would make it far harder for Starfleet Intelligence or others to interfere with their operations. 🤷‍♂️ Least that's my take on it.

[@theoneyoudontsee-c8o]

you should make a video on why the excelsior class is identically bigger in mass if not profile than the kelvin connie as the vengeance. is there a connection with the kelvin timeline and the terrain timeline like the one with the prime? and all that exra dimensional goodness getting muckered up possibly by some supper powerful mistake/s of many origins.

[@_Omega_Weapon]

That's incorrect. The Excelsior class is 467m long, the Kelvin Connie is 700m, and the Vengeance is 1,400m.

[@thechillhacker]

The way 31 was originally designed it makes absolutely no sense for them to have their own fleet, including 22nd century sources (ENT). They should use modified and stolen, unregistered foreign and civilian vessels in order to truly make sense. Dont be big and scary, be unnoticed but full of surprises when needed. They should employ a "grey man" fleet, not an expansive Tal'Shiar type fleet. Look like Pakleds, not Borg, but strike like a Romulan and disappear like a ghost.

[@TheRezro]

From Strange New Worlds we actually do know that Strafleet has sizable fleet of automatic miners. S31 could easily hide as cargo Freighters for that fleet and that is most logical explanation of entire idea. Furthermore there is evidence of that as Synths use the exact same types of ships. So those were part of Federation drone network.

[@TroyDionWilliams]

Back when I modded Star Trek Armada, I had made a red & black defiant that was a Section 31 "Hero Ship". Too bad I lost tht mod.

[@jedidragonking5070]

I would definitely take the Vengeance as my command. I've always favored heavily armed warships for space exploration cause you never know what threats might be lurking in the darkness between the stars, and the Vengeance favors that philosophy to a T and then some. That jet black leviathan is really an example of what the Federation is capable of when push comes to shove and its time to set aside the idealistic exploratory mindset for a while in favor of a more militaristic approach.

[@redfishtex738]

Oh, just give me the Defiant class. Better the Devil you know or, in my case, at least seen. Not made for a big crew and certainly no creature comforts, but she'll get the job done and get you home. I would just need a month of shadowing Miles O'Brien. Guess I better brush up on my dart game.

[@AutomatedPersonnelUnit_3947]

A most logical conclusion 🖖 One of my favorite ships

[@chrisdufresne9359]

I liked the Vengeance. She was mean looking and made sense to be conceptualized after Vulcan was fed to the Black Hole.

[@Iceflkn]

Control knew all of this was coming and scattered itself to the winds of Starfleet. This way it could be part of everything and never be exposed.

[@allthehardtimes]

Without respect we reject

[@zenmaster24]

scale up one of those drones - they look awesome, would love one as a full size ship

[@JohnFinzel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could swear Section 31 was introduced to us in ST TNG

[@starwraithspacemarine8605]

My favorite Sec31ship at least of the Discovery universe is the Nimrod class.

[@originaluddite]

All ships in Kelvin and Discovery space scenes are difficult to see. They seem sort of 'outer space camouflaged' and all impressionistic light and shadow. Who needs stealth tech in a setting like that? :)

[@damongraham1398]

I did not start watching Discovery until the Battle with Control. So all those Section 31 starships were new to me. My first thought is Defiant all day, everyday. Now that I know about those drone ships....... I always thought the Defiant should have been as large as the Galaxy class' saucer section. How about combining the drones that would make the Defiant look bigger until the drones lifted away? Instead of the cutouts remaining in place. They could have been teleported(absorbed) to reinforce the ablative armor of the true hull of the Defiant. Who can I consult with to make a Defiant drone carrier? I should mention that if I was given the choice I would be part of Section 31 during the time of Lower Decks. Someone from the Discovery timeline would also have to be their to bring the idea of the drone carrier to the Lower Decks era.

[@Arms872]

Great vid. I support the Kirk cabal!

[@Marcus51090]

I’d like to see the language used in the The Treaty of Algeron…. Or what constitutes a cloaking device As this could be classed as a treaty violation

[@TrekCentral]

Note that the Treaty was signed in 2311, while the Discovery-Section 31 ships exist around the 2250s :) - Jack

[@Marcus51090]

lol I realised that after I posted it (stupid mistake)….. I didn’t delete it cause everyone must see my shame lol

[@dominik8005]

Sektion 31 Defiant class

[@JayC2k08]

Nice

[@jay201170]

USS Vengeance

[@brettnelson7048]

USS Vengeance vs Imperial Class Star Destroyer. Who would win?

[@AutomatedPersonnelUnit_3947]

I am unsure but it would be an awesome showdown 🖖

[@kieranfurlong6368]

Section 31 is already out on Paramount +

[@AutomatedPersonnelUnit_3947]

It's awful

[@ken.f.c.1977]

So was into darkness

[@kieranfurlong6368]

@@AutomatedPersonnelUnit_3947 tell me about it

[@XHunter442]

I thought it was a dark kelvin version of USS Excelsior!

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

I choose Nimrod-class to command.

[@kurlis]

i would want to command the USS Prometheus (NX-59650)

[@lyinarbaeldeth2456]

I absolutely loathe what they've done with Section 31. It's the equivalent of "Hey, let's give the CIA a US Navy aircraft carrier battle group!" Because that's what covert ops needs, right? This is an organization which isn't even supposed to EXIST. It is, by its very nature, illegal within the Federation itself. It's small and extremely clandestine. Why the hell do they have a fleet of starships? Where are they getting the crews and logistics support? WHY ARE YOU WEARING "HI I'M IN SECTION 31" COMBADGES?!

[@918_xDx]

vengeance is still bada$$ ship

[@drawingdead9025]

The Kelvin timeline is not Star Trek, it is Hollywood attempting to give the finger to Star Trek fans.

[@thunderrobots1980s]

the kelvin timeline is separate from the discovery universe which is separate from stw timeline and from the main timeline, with that cleared up only the disco universe gives fans the middle finger, the kelvin timeline actually stayed true to source material while providing a new story

[@Rein_k4rls]

I don't think it's that as much as they really thought they could get away with it. The Section 31 movie shows they learned nothing. Maybe Skydance will be different....

[@918_xDx]

who cares... better than nobody making star trek content. canon is pretty much meaningless once the creator(s) are gone. you can like what you like and hate what you hate only because someone is doing trek things to opine about

[@trebory6]

Man you need to enunciate "Star Trek" because if someone told me you were saying "Stargate" or "Starter" I'd have believed them.

[@karos009]

well in sto my main ship is the Nimrod class Command battlecruiser :P any my boyfriend main is the Vegeance class :D

[@nfchance76]

"so it didnt look like a federation ship in dark mode"😂. It literally looks like whatever body would think a federation stealth ship would look like. In the star trek universe that warp nacelle layout is distinctly federation. You would think that I seek an organization that violates everything the federation claim they stand for would use something like the mercenaries ship from TNG. It had sensor baffling technology that was able to elude the enterprise.

[@IzaanJalloh-j2v]

Nimrod

[@FireRevanShadow]

Excuse me? The kelvin timeline has warp 10 ships? What?

[@fullturbo1984]

Man I just wish the sec 31 movie was any good this had soo much potential

[@MrTilbin]

Section 31 is part of the FEDERATION (under charter 31) NOT Starfleet.

[@-johnto6303]

This new era of trek is absolutely awful 🤦‍♂️

[@tolnaijani]

NuTrek by Abrams and Klutzman has nothing to do with Star Trek

[@AutomatedPersonnelUnit_3947]

Hemmer, Scotty, O'Brian, La Forge are my favorite Engineers

[@petitelima]

This section 31 is in the Disco verse so not prime

[@richardshepard380]

Yeah, I can’t wait till we have starships like that in real life. It probably won’t be anytime soon. Probably 100 years from now because our electronics skills has gotta come up a lot more and our electronics too.

[@WCD_Media]

The ship design in Discovery were ugly and I'm glad that Lower Decks technically made that series non canonical to main time line but rather an alternate universe.

[@MEDINAV1]

Gene Rodenberry would be rolling in his grave 😢

[@augurseer]

This is a great video. But new-trek ruined Section 31. Made them silly and overpowered.

[@nullc0ntext]

The Section 31 movie SUCKS. Star Trek needs to revert to DS9/Voy/TNG era style to regain me as a fan.

[@ANTSEMUT1]

Rather then give us a to easy to read illustration of the ship, you gives us a badly edited clips from the show. Which is distracting as hell while you speak.

[@TrekCentral]

That’s how all our videos have been done, over the last 5 years. - Jack

[@FullMetalFox2]

Good thing Lower Decks pushed Discovery into the Alternate Reality category, aka non-prime universe, which im very happy about 🤣 (I personally liked some of the designs, i really do, but the just pure silliness and stupidity of Discovery writing killed it for me)

[@Guiscardr]

You read too much into a four second joke.

[@FullMetalFox2]

@@Guiscardr Nah, im aware that paramount wont uncanon Discovery, no matter how much is dislike It and Picard. But i like to imagine and quote the implications of that scene.