Triple-T Thursday #27 - Heat Treating Knives

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Any key info I missed? Do you have different or additional heat treating recipes you want to share?

[@geraldandre7009]

Sure! Everything you want to share is something I want to learn and is somthing I can improve my craft with 👍

[@justsometurd.1109]

I hate to bother you with the same question again but I can't find the comment for some reason..... What belt grinder did you recommend?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

@@justsometurd.1109 No worries, Zane. I have a Brodbeck grinder and would highly recommend them. If you listen to the Knife Talk podcast, you'll get a 10% discount code, which I wish I had when I ordered. I have the 2hp with VFD and small wheel attachment and I think out the door (shipping is included) was $2600.

[@justsometurd.1109]

@@TyrellKnifeworks ok awesome is this podcast on youtube as well?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

@@justsometurd.1109 No, just go to the Podcast app on your phone and type Knife talk. You can probably just Google it too. N

[@Jack-xhit]

Cannot thank you enough…you helped sort a lot of questions that would have taken me “your lifetime” to learn…i am so grateful…yours in earnest…Jack.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for watching, Jack!

[@RVsbladesnthangs]

FINALLY... I finally found a video that explains this process in a way that I can understand! Thank you so much!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m glad it was helpful, Robbie!

[@richardbranton190]

Just got in my oven i purchased at blade show. Im getting ready to treat 8 blades for the first time. Thanks for the video my friend 👍

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m glad it helped! Great to meet you at the show.

[@bobgore1962]

WOW !!!! ... I LOVE THIS VIDEO! 😎👍🏻💯⚒️🔥 Thanks Denis!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m thrilled you got something out of it! 👍

[@canadianguy5244]

love your shop! its nice, clean and cozy!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Ha, not sure about clean. I need one of those air filters to cut down on the layer of black dust on everything. 😜

[@canadianguy5244]

@@TyrellKnifeworks yeah u right ur shop looks like a pharmacy that hasnt been cleaned for two days at minimum. What a shame, lol

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Haha! I guess it hides well on camera. 😜

[@dankissinger1969]

Thank you!!!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m happy you got some info out of it! 👍

[@Stillpoint23]

Thanks man! I don't know how many videos claim that canola is fine to use for the 10xx steels, which I did, and wondered why my first blades wouldn't hold an edge, and chips in places. I guess canola oil doesn't work for me! I bought some parks 50 from Texas farrier supply

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I know, I read it on the bladesmithing forums all the time. You *can* use canola but that doesn’t mean you *should*. You aren’t getting the hardness that you could. 👍 Thanks for watching!

[@dominicdwk]

Single best video on this subject. Masterpiece. Thank you.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks Dominic! I appreciate you checking it out!

[@jaisonlt86]

Thank you, great content! I took more screen shots than I can count 😂

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m glad you got some good info, Jaison! 👍

[@rodgerklindt3165]

Yes I did learn something, thanks. Well done presentation. I have to admit I'm that guy who doesn't "follow best knifemaking practices", mostly due to available resources. That said, I fully understand my blades don't live up to their fullest potential. However, Ive spent a lifetime cutting stuff for work and play with many different knives, and mine perform well. Could they improve,,no doubt,,and I'll continue to strive for better. Thank you again for sharing.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

If your blades are for you or friends, have at it! If you start selling them, to me, that’s where the proper quenchant should come in. Just my opinion. Thanks for watching!

[@jsaaverbeck8059]

Thanks!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m glad it was helpful!

[@74verseveld]

You are a great online teacher.. So well explained.. Thanks 👍

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks Tony! I'm pleased you got something out of this one. 👍🏻

[@DannyGallant63]

Excellent info...explained perfectly for the new knife builder like myself. Thankyou...really enjoy your videos!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks Danny! I appreciate the feedback!

[@brucebutcher9636]

Thank you!!! So many guys are afraid to give their recipies for whatever reason. Can't wait to try your recipies and see how it works for me.Anyway thanks very much!!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

You’re welcome, Bruce! Send me some pics to show in the viewer knives section of Triple-T! 👍

[@robthompson8285]

Supremely informative video. Thanks

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.

[@davidscadlock5569]

Great info & presentation!! Thank you! I'll be reviewing this one numerous times!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m happy it helped you! 👍

[@Canadiansasquatchbrewery]

Great stuff! Really great! Learned quite a bit with this. I will definitely be taking some of this with me when I start my second knife in several weeks! Thanks for sharing this! Cheers!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Glad it was helpful! 👍

[@geraldandre7009]

Great summary! Thank you for your explanations and the whys, why nots and don'ts! Great stuff!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for checking it out, Gerald!

[@deanscott9876]

Ive been making my knives from 1084 with fairly good results and have been thinking of starting to try other steels out of curiosity. Thank you so much for the clear and informative information about these other steels. This video has been a great asset.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Great to hear, Dean! Glad it helped! 👍

[@zachary8339]

Thanks for all your videos

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for checking them out, Zach!

[@mcrich1978]

Thanks Dennis on the very informative video 🤘 I've been on a 10 week wait for my oven for about 3 weeks now. I opted to get that over a 2 x 72. I started really learning and practicing using 1095 and canola oil and it skates a file 😆 but for me it's more of learning the processes at the time and just giving the knifes away to family. Now knowing I can do the work and produce a blade next for me before any thought of selling is using the right quenchent, proper soak times etc.. I can't wait to unpack my Oven!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

The oven is a total game changer! I should have added in the video that if you're just doing knives for yourself or as a hobby for some friends, that its totally fine to use whatever and "it skates a file" is a fine answer. Its once you plan to start selling knives that I think it's an issue. In my opinion you shouldn't be advertising "1095" unless you used the proper quenchant because its more like 1080 if you didn't.

[@mcrich1978]

@@TyrellKnifeworks yeah the oven is gonna open ALOT of doors and I think it was the better decision at this time for me over the grinder since I'm already doing the work without it. Btw.. parks 50 is ordered.. boy that's pricey! $70 ish a gal. On Amazon.

[@Bigdancustomknives]

Awesome video! Thank you for the great videos.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m glad you got something out of it. Thanks for watching!

[@TrickZZer]

Thanks, really awesome!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks Richard! Glad you got something out of it. 👍🏻

[@morrisonknives]

Really good information, Im looking to purchase a oven/kiln after lots of frustration trying to get consistent temps in my forge. Plus being able to do stainless knives will open up alot more possibilities. Thanks!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

The heat treating oven is a game changer for sure! Once I got that piece of equipment I feel like I have a solid heat treating regiment that is repeatable. You won't regret it! (Listen to the knife talk podcast and get a 10% off EvenHeat from Soul Ceramics.)

[@HeavyForge]

Rockwell tester is my next toy!🔥⚒💪🏻

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

If you get one let me know where and how much. I’m really curious on getting one.

[@stanervin6108]

@@TyrellKnifeworks I knew a lady that bought one through a surplus machinery firm for a bit over $500 . That was the late '90's.

[@sudo_nym]

Very useful, Denis! Great job 👏🏻💪🏻🙏🏻

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks! 😃

[@gregchapman2634]

Thank you, very informative.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for watching, Greg!

[@donalddufour256]

Very informative.Thanks

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for watching, Donald!

[@brysonalden5414]

This may will push me over the edge and convince me I need an HT oven. Thanks for this very informative TTT!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks Bryson. If you do want an oven, listen to the Knife Talk podcast and get a discount code for an EvenHeat. 👍

[@bracoop2]

At first viewing, I was confused. But after watching a few times, I got it.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I'm glad it was helpful. Which parts did you find confusing so I might improve the next one I do on this topic?

[@youtube.commentator]

Very interesting, do you have a video on the different types of steel? Also, what kind of steel do you prefer for your every day carry?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

No, I don’t have a single video on the different steels many of my videos list the steel used. Mostly I do Damascus which is either 1095+15N20 or 1084+15N20. Thanks for checking it out!

[@danwerkman]

Hey.. Thanks for those great recipes.... Always awesome to see someone sharing tested information...cheers PS... Viewers knives?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Yeah, no viewer knife this week. We’ll get back to those next week. 👍

[@Vothtrucks]

Ooops..... I guess there are purchased and IDed steels used more than I thought. I use files , leaf springs , etc. and have no idea what class they fall under.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

The problem is that *most* but not all leaf springs are 5160. *Most* but not all files are 1095. You're still dealing with unknown steel. I'm a firm believer in using known steels, particularly if you're going to sell them, but as long as you're honest with your customers about what you used, its fine. Happy forging!

[@ernestobarrameda1087]

When you said normalizing let it cool in still air to black then you said until you can touch it, but it can be black while its still hot and you cannot touch it but its black already, how long is it be specific

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Cool to black enough that you can touch it. Below 200F degrees. Thanks for watching.

[@dylanbennett3851]

Watching your "Tiple T" vids are my new Thursday morning ritual! They are so informative and I've learned alot just from this series! Thi video is 1 of the best indeth look/explanation of heat treating that I have come across! On the Austin Martin note, I have a friend with the last name "Myer" and I tried my hardest to convince him to name his next son "Oscar" lmao 🤣🤣🤣

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks so much, Dylan. That’s what I wanted to hear! Oscar Mayer, haha! I was just watching Homestead Rescue and Marty Rainey named his daughter Misty and her middle name is Windy. Misty Windy Rainey. 🤣

[@dylanbennett3851]

@@TyrellKnifeworks holly cow it is! I never put that together till you just said it. On "Alaskan Bush people" one of the kids(bear) named his son river.....last name brown "River Bown" hehehe 🤦‍♂️🤣 poor kid!

[@toolman9081]

Thanks for this. I've learned everything I know about heat treating right here. Question, on the normalizing cycles, is it OK to cool it down with water between cycles to speed up the process? I know you said it is ok to water quench between tempering cycles.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

No, I must cook slowly in still air. It is imperative that it’s slow or the normalization doesn’t work. Cool it until you can hold it in your hand. Thanks for watching!

[@toolman9081]

@@TyrellKnifeworks thank you for putting this information out. If not for you and a couple other KZbinrs I wouldn't even be trying this out. Attempting to make my first knife as we speak with some O1 tool steel.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

@@toolman9081 I’m happy it’s helpful!

[@matthewyoung1056]

Are we learning names or how to heat treat

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Just trying to add some levity to an otherwise boring subject. 😉

[@onewheel78]

Thank you so much for the very informative video! One question... You have different recipes for 1095 / 15N20 versus 80CRV2... if you were making a San Mai blade from 1095 / 15N20 Damascus with an 80CRV2 core how would you heat treat it? Thank you!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Always heat treat the core steel. You don’t really care about the cladding, if 80CRV2 is your core, you focus on that steel for the heat treat process. Thanks for watching!

[@matiasshanahan5164]

Hi, i would like ti ask why do You do, for example, the las normalization of 5160 at 1250F? Because i think that at that temperture You don't austenitize the Steel so You don't get an smaller grain structure. Sorry for mi English, i'm from argentina. I wait for your answer, have a Great year!!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

First off, the grain reduction steps should be done below the austenizing temperatures, not at it. If you read Dr. Larrin Thomas' articles on the subject, he did tests and a normalization cycle (at higher than austenizing temp) followed by multiple grain refinement cycles that are lower than the austenizing temp gives a better hardness and grain structure. My heat treating specs follow this. If you watch my Knife Steels 101 video, I update my heat treating steps in there as well to add a sub-critical anneal after the grain refinement. Thanks for watching.

[@matiasshanahan5164]

@@TyrellKnifeworks i Saw the vídeo, Great information thanks!! But i have another question, i read the articles un knife Steel nerds and there it Say the temper for 1h twice at the same temperature as You, but here You Say 2h twice, any coments about that?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

@@matiasshanahan5164 Either is probably fine. The fact that you do it twice is more is more important than whether its 1 or 2 hours. I do 2 hour cycles just to make sure. 👍🏻

[@scorpio0281]

I'm just getting started into knife making. The main steels I have always wanted to work with are 1095 (one of the forgiving steels) and D2. I have several D2 mass production knives that I love and have wanted to take a few features of this one, add to that one with another one's handle profile type of thing. My question is, would you treat D2 like O1 for quenching or does it fall more towards the 10 series steels? I was really hoping your video would show this as one of the steels, but understand you can't cover them all without the video being a full feature film length! 😆 I only ask here because I find it more useful asking someone that actually works with may steels more useful than 'hey Google' and getting God knows what for an answer.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

D2 is an air hardening steel and the HT is much like stainless with aluminum plates. It’s a major pain to work because of the air hardening. Until you get some experience I would stay away from D2. You’ll likely need an oven to heat treat it properly. D2 is really a tool steel and there are better steels out there anyway. 80CRV2 is great and easy to heat treat. I’ve never even dealt with D2, though I just purchased some for some drifts and punches for a future project. Get yourself some 80CRV2 or 5160 or 10xx series until you get an oven (assuming you don’t have one) and more experience. Good luck and thanks for watching!

[@Anderson-HandForged]

a great video as usuall dennis thanks for all those pointera i built my own heat treat oven this past winter to save some $$ i didnt have lol but works great i willsend you some pics if your interested thanks again Mark i had your email but cant find it

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m happy you got some good info out of it. My email is the channel name at gmail. Thanks!

[@richardbranton2780]

I love your channel I'm getting ready to try 1095 for the first time. I don't have an oven and I was going to use water. Should I order some parks 50 or just give it a try? Thanks and I'm going to sign up for your patreon in a few days

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I would definitely recommend Parks50 over water. Use the salt trick on a test piece and try to maintain the temp for 10 mins before putting your steel in for heat treat. Thanks for watching, Richard!

[@matiasshanahan5164]

How much time take your oven yo reach 800°c? Mine take 40min and i think is very slow so maybe i have yo insert mi Blades a temperature near to the one of the treatment. What do You think?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Mine takes about 12mins to get to 800C. Is you’re 110v or 220v? Mine is 220v so it’s quick. Yes, I would insert your blade quite close to the temp.

[@matiasshanahan5164]

@@TyrellKnifeworks is 220v, i'm from argentina. But the manufacturer Say that is slow so it consume less. Okay, thanks i Will try to do it like that. In some test i do in the past with the same time and temperature as in your vídeo it seem that a bit Big grain strecture, so i think than maybe the time in the oven cause that, SO changing that it Will be much better the grain.

[@charlesstaples2086]

Great video,I would tell makers to either send your blades to a professional heat treater or buy a book on heat treatment and do not watch most people on the internet trying to show how they did it

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for the input, I think it's important to understand the process.

[@bobbygervais6185]

Very informative video, love the amount of detail you are putting into your videos. Ive been using those hardness testing files as well. Any thoughts on Peanut oil for 1084 & 1095? That's what I've been using.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Peanut oil is just ok for 1084. For 1095 it’s not really very good. It’s kind of a waste of the 1095 because you’re not getting all the steel offers. You are better off sticking with 1084 if you are going to use peanut oil. If you’re just playing around and it’s a hobby, no problem. If you plan to sell your knives, I wouldn’t market 1095 unless I used the proper quenchant.

[@donwalker4088]

Can u Quench knife twice if it doesn’t harden ?

[@donwalker4088]

If you don’t reach hardness after all the steps do you start over from beginning or just hardening quench cycle ?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Start over or you risk cracks.

[@davidostertag7689]

Great video. One question: I make a lot of thin knives from 1080. Is it ok to use canola oil if the blade is less than 2mm thick (since the thin knife cools faster) or should I still invest in some parks-50?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

You CAN use canola, but Parks is better and will give you a better blade. How much better? You wouldn’t know without an hrc tester. Might only be .5 - 1 hrc difference. 🤷‍♂️

[@stanervin6108]

5:50 That dude 'Normal' just took a doobie break to relax. 🌴🖖👀

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

He's just exhausted from forging all day. 😜

[@Bar_D_Forge]

I've used the factory's recommend heat treat from New Jersey steel and noticed that they recommend to put in during cycles at specific temps, like up to 1650 then cool to 950 and re heat to next cycle... Do you do that? And I'm getting even heat oven since I learned the forge is a bit much with dwell times, so how do you accomplish that heat regulation? If my oven is at 1650, how long does it take to cool to 1550 before I can put blades back in? Thinking I should get vermiculite bucket to stick blades in to maintain temp while oven cools... Thoughts?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I have my specific heat treat recipes (see my Heat Treating video). Only for stainless do have a stepped heat treat. I’ve never heard of hearing to 1650 then cooling to something like 950 unless that’s supposed to be the equivalent of “cool in still air”, which it might. An oven will cool from 1600 to 1500 just by opening the door. But getting it to 400 will take over an hour or more. Checkout my video on heat treating and try those. 👍

[@IGhengisKhanI]

hej, it would have been neat to use C temperatures, not everyone is usedd to F temps

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Yeah, you’ll have to convert, sorry. Next time I’ll add both. Thanks for watching.

[@IGhengisKhanI]

@@TyrellKnifeworks thank you :) love your knifes

[@Aleeknives]

What! I thought you just heated the metal to it's melting point and then dunk it in cold water!

[@Aleeknives]

🤣😂🤣 you should pin this comment and watch people tear me up🤣😂😅

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Yeah, that’s basically it....NOT. 🤣

[@genekunkel8001]

does your friend have a bulldog named lagonda

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I have no idea what that means.

[@smrettpecca]

If you want to kill a name, wich doesn't allready exist, go to " forged in Fire "! :D what most Challengers, who got only the Dollar signs in their eyes don't realize is,................... most of em will never ever sale a blade again! We laught a lot about em over here! this show is made for the master within the master blade smiths. not for newbs, Interns, pupils, or hobby smith. It is made for the Masters of the Masters. don't know about Canister, harderer, san mai, go mai, European blades, asian blades, african blades, never made a medieval crossbow? Don't go there, cause you're only Shark bait!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

It says right in the application for FiF that you should know forge welding, damascus, canister damascus, how to use powered forging tools (presses or hammers) and a lot of other aspects. The show isn't meant for hobbyists who play around and aren't serious. I still can't believe I see people on there who say they haven't done damascus (like last night's episode). How were they even accepted for the show!? And yes, I've applied and I'm still waiting for my call. 😜