Cheating Storylines Are Lazy

[@Tronn9672]

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[@michiyaslana5974]

Shout out to Jenna Fischer and John Krasinski who wouldn’t allow a cheating storyline for Jim and Pam in The Office. You can absolutely portray heartbreaking and realistic difficulties in a marriage/relationship without obliterating the characters in the process.

[@jessiechowdhury8680]

Don’t forget Matthew Perry chandler on friends.

[@young__blacksmith]

Slightly ironic considering how their relationship started lol

[@nont18411]

@@young__blacksmith Yep, poor Karen😢

[@hiyori2846]

Hi! Do you have any ideas on how to portray heartbreaking and realistic difficulties in a marriage/relationship besides cheating ?

[@michiyaslana5974]

@ Financial troubles, physical and mental health issues, neglecting the relationship due to priority shifting to kids, the struggles of a long distance relationship, a difference in core values that was never a problem until the couple was directly faced with it (do we want kids, how do we feel about abortion or euthanasia, what if our loved one comes out as queer or has a partner of different race)… sprinkle „lack of communication” on top of any of the above and it gets worse! That’s just off the top of my head. There’s a lot of realistic problems that make really good on-screen drama and don’t rely on one of the spouses actively betraying the other in a way most people consider a point of no return.

[@jemjam4077]

I know it’s fiction, but I do wish there wasn’t this insistence on people forgiving and getting back with the person that cheated on them

[@thanos8077]

Nah fr

[@pn2294]

@@RasenRendanXwhy?

[@kendall6584]

honestly

[@GoeTeeks]

Lots of real life couples forgive their cheating partners. When you're in a relationship/married for a long time, it's rare for it to not happen. It sucks. It's painful. It's probably the worst thing that could happen to an otherwise healthy relationship (barring one of them dying or losing a child), but it doesn't HAVE to be an automatic relationship ender. At least, not a permanent ender. One person forgiving another person for cheating is as true to real life as it is to fiction. Couples permanently breaking up because of cheating is ALSO true to real life as it is in fiction.

[@lstarsabb]

Exactly that is a huge betrayal.i hate when people say it was a mistake, no it was a choice you made instead of ending your current relationship or talking out your issues with you partner.

[@lilil9752]

I really don’t like how it’s overlooked that cheating is not like tripping, it requires an effort

[@mittag983]

Yes, especially nowadays with devices. You really need put lots of effort to hide it.

[@kitsunin4690]

That is true. Unfortunately, relationship psychologists do think that only about 10% of people actually would not cheat under any circumstances. Nearly half of relationships have cheating. The question is not over whether it happens, or even whether decent people ever do it. It does and they do. So if anything, media does portray it happening way less than it does in reality. But using it as a way to keep the status quo is terrible and a betrayal to the audience, even when the cheating itself happens in a realistic way.

[@Tessa_Gr]

@@kitsunin4690 I think the takeaway should not be that because many people cheat, cheating is not that bad, actually It should be that way less people than you think are decent humans who are responsible and who can be trusted. Cheating is not some small betrayal. It shows intentional disrespect to your partner, carelessness towards their physical safety (if you cheat and then don't inform your partner that they're now at much higher risk of STDs), incapability to control your own actions. Someone who cheats is clearly a horrible partner and can not be trusted in the future, unless they really, really change themselves significantly.

[@sidney9796]

@@kitsunin4690 what are you talking about? nearly half of relationships have cheating? i cant think of anything additional factors that would make that true

[@kitsunin4690]

@@sidney9796 well, to be specific, there are pretty good studies that show in 25% of marriages at least one partner will have sex outside of the marriage. It is more common in non-married relationships, and I think we can all agree that there are more forms of cheating than sex. If cheating seems rare, that's because it's a big secret you will pretty much only EVER hear about from the victim of it who leaves their partner. When you are in the field and working with people and couples more anonymously, it becomes clear that it's actually pretty common. It is understood by psychologists as a maladaptive reaction to problems within a relationship, much like addiction is a maladaptive reaction to problems in life.

[@zolaliz4000]

I also feel like. Rarely do we see the women cheat and be forgiven. It's so strange that its almost always the guy we see cheat, and then follow him as the "hero" winning back the love he lost, rooting for him to be forgiven

[@aishambengue3024]

For real!! Also, I feel like Imsecure might be one of the few shows in which the main character ( a woman) cheats and is forgiven

[@Its_always3am]

That’s just not true maybe your a bit bias but there are plenty of cuck movies and shows, from Chinese to American.

[@exammole4545]

Bcuz my mums doing reruns of Big Bang Theory, I remember watching Leonard cheating on Priya with some random, with the joke revealed that she was getting back with her ex at the same time. The show tries to play it off she was more in the wrong then him

[@thecabbageman1]

​@@exammole4545 She was more in the wrong. Leonard kissed a girl and immediately felt guilty about it, came clean and apologized to her. Her reaction was basically "cool! I slept with my ex and I wasn't gonna tell you but now we can call it even and move on"

[@thecabbageman1]

I think we rarely see women cheat in general especially in sitcoms that this video is mostly about.

[@Katieeeee12345]

Apparently, Matthew Perry fought against the writers so they didn't make Chandler cheat on Monica in Friends or so I've heard anyway in recent years if that is true I'm glad he fought them on that so Chandler didn't cheat on Monica. I hate when cheating comes out of nowhere in a show or movies to make pointless drama

[@zellalaing5439]

Possibly why i always thought their relationship was far superior, loved them too, never liked ross from the start.

[@mittag983]

I'm so glad he fought them, otherwise Chandler would have been ruined. It's also out of character.

[@Katieeeee12345]

@@mittag983 Yeah, I believe that was one of Matthew Perry's points on why he did what he did. He also thought that it would have been so out of character for Chandler to cheat on Monica. I think the cheating was supposed to happen just before the characters were set to get married.

[@Katieeeee12345]

@@zellalaing5439 I never really liked Ross there a few moments in the show i liked him but he is my least favourite friend

[@masonc8140]

I'm glad he did, he was right. It would make no sense for him to cheat, given that a huge part of his story was how traumatized he was by his parents cheating, to the point he couldn't eat thanksgiving food ever again until he started dating Monica. Also when he fell in love with Kathy and kissed her, he was horrified with himself and immediately put a stop to it (even though Joey was on a date with another girl at the time). He was then willing to sit in a box until Joey forgave him. If that's how guilty he felt over a kiss he almost immediately stopped, no way he would cheat on the love of his life. He was also the only one, other than Rachel who obviously thought Ross was in the wrong, as he made jokes criticizing Ross afterwards. His integrity and willingness to admit fault was why he was my favorite character.

[@liyahjoon4908]

Cory stayed yelling and banging his fists on tables n putting his fingers in her face I can’t stand it! smh he gives very much “nice guy”

[@liyahjoon4908]

Shawn was the better boy! 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@AndyyWithAY]

Do you think the show's aged like milk or is it still pretty good. I loved it as a kid, but haven't watched it since. Corey was that blah main character who's outshown by everyone else in the cast. Shawn was definitely better. Girl Meets World didn't seem interesting to me, but shawn and Angela having broken up was definitely the biggest reason I didn't watch

[@Hanayaaa]

@@AndyyWithAYShawn and Angela were the better relationship than Corey and Topanga

[@motaku220]

@@AndyyWithAY boy meets world is a good watch, but Cory gets insufferable after the first season

[@ajtriforcegamerofhyrule8538]

​@Hanayaaa Hell yeah they were

[@Spicie95]

I'm really grateful that Matthew Perry (in Friends) and John Krasinski (in The Office US) (and probably several other actor we haven't heard about) refused to do cheating storylines in their shows. There are ways to introduce tension or break up a couple without cheating. Rachel could have told Ross she needed a break to focus on her new job. It's not like she had a serious boyfriend again in the show. Or Ross could have suggested a break because he wanted to be with someone who had more time to spend with him. He got into several semi-serious relationships afterwards. Either way, they could pine for each other for a long time, because they wanted to be together, but thought they needed to focus on different things

[@TheIceYvetal]

Hold up, Pam and Jim was basically one big cheating storyline.

[@tabithanel1975]

​@@TheIceYvetal You mean on Pam's husband at the time?

[@jandm4ever716]

@@TheIceYvetalthey’re talking about in later seasons. The writers originally wanted Jim to cheat on Pam with Kathy, but John put his foot down and refused.

[@rachelrasmussen1101]

​@jandm4ever716 but they still HAD the Kathy storyline. And the camera guy storyline. And yeah, those are the later seasons. Early seasons Pam is engaged to Roy and kisses Jim. Jim is with Karen and Pam makes her move on him anyway. There is no arguing that there wasn't just A cheating storyline, but SEVERAL cheating storylines. I'm glad Kathy failed, but it was much funnier that she failed.

[@peridotasadeadbritishmonar7924]

@@rachelrasmussen1101I try not to think about the later seasons but Jim calling Dwight about bed bugs to get Kathy out does make me laugh xD

[@lets.get.intoit.]

The more interesting and concerning pattern is that it's always the woman being cheated on and then eventually forgiving. Sends a damaging consistent message to society. Maybe it's no wonder dating is what it is for our generation rn

[@tetragaming6332]

That women tend to pick the worse support networks? I've never seen a dude get cheated on and have his own people encouraging him to forgive and get back together with the cheater. Edit: correction, I saw it once.

[@ggghost000]

​@@tetragaming6332you have alot of comments here finding ways to blame a woman for something...weird behavior

[@shanouboubou]

Preach

[@BoredInternetCitizen]

That is just not true. Just in Friends, Janice cheats on Chandler and he takes her back. Phoebe cheats when she dates two people. Carol technically cheats on Susan when she kisses Ross... Just Friends itself has a lot of women cheating (I haven't seen the other shows talked about in the video) and it says something about YOU that you can't remember that. Maybe subconsciously you think it's okay when a woman cheats?

[@lets.get.intoit.]

@BoredInternetCitizen you really are bored... Haven't seen Friends in 10+ years, I was referring to media in general but stay mad ig

[@spnvpng04]

i HATED Schmidt cheating, it felt so unnecessary and it just proves those writers didn't know how to write the characters as couples. They even said that about nick and jess, how they were scared to make them canon because they wouldn't know how to keep the magic alive after getting them together, which is why they broke them up for a while as well. It is possible to get couples together and not fall into cheap and lazy tropes like cheating Jake and Amy from B99 and Ben and Leslie from Parks and Rec are two great examples (both couples from the same creator, Michael Schur)!

[@boxingelfis1499]

Jake and Amy are one of the best TV couples everrr!!!!! I say this with pride; I've never cried for someone's wedding day like I did for Jake and Amy's😤

[@lytaquiroz1524]

This! Same to me with those two couples happens to me with Chandler and Mónica from Friends... They show how interesting stories can happen while just growing as a couple, and stay as relevante and funny, but also it's good for the characters mature along their relationship. Reason why on Friends Mondler is more beloved than Ross and Rachel... People actually want healthy love onscreen

[@sonyadubel1147]

This! But I will say the original creator got what happened with Cece and Schmidt really wrong. When they first got together they only dated of a bit before breaking up. Cece was actually engaged in an arranged marriage with another man when he started up with Elizabeth, and once Schimdt had moved on with her, Cece called of her wedding and confessed to him, and he was dating both of them bc he couldn’t bear to tell Elizabeth she wasn’t the one he wanted. He still should have handled the situation better but he didn’t just cheat out of nowhere

[@Rpgd49990]

@@sonyadubel1147 I was waiting for someone to say this. What Schmidt did was obviously wrong, and classifies as cheating on two people at once, but the way it happened shows his love for Cece a lot more than Tronn describes. He absolutely wants to be with Cece, but he's already happy with Elizabeth, and he's too much of a coward to do anything about either of them. Cece confessing her feelings for Schmidt in front of everyone whilst he had a girlfriend was really shitty of her, and it put Schmidt in a difficult situation, and Schmidt made it 10x worse by trying to have it all. It's not that he cheated on Cece with someone else, it's that he cheated on Elizabeth, someone he was happy with, with Cece. She was his first choice, and he never would've cheated on her. It just came down to a combination of bad timing and selfishness/cowardice from Schmidt.

[@spnvpng04]

@@sonyadubel1147 youre right!! i forgot about that context, still cheating i remember feeling really bad for elizabeth, specially with their backstory when schmidt was young

[@Sayali312]

Bro the cheating in good luck Charley made so mad. I could never forgive him

[@LeticiaF_3.14]

Yeah, I don't know why Teddy ended up getting back together with him! I don't think that it necessarily "came out of left field" as stated in the video, because I wouldn't say we knew Spencer's character to the point that we know he'd never do that, and to me it made sense that Spencer just did something stupid (understatement) and didn't realize how stupid it was until after he got caught in his lies. I loved that Teddy didn't forgive him when he went to chase her back either... But then they eventually did get back together and it was disappointing.

[@omarmansuri7099]

What's interesting is that in the indian remake of good luck charlie, spencer's role was actually divided among 3 characters. The version of the character from S1, his S2 version and one for S3 and S4. All different characters with no relation to the other. So their version of spencer who cheated was never forgiven and the character Teddy ends up with at the end is totally different.

[@anumehta1010]

​@omarmansuri7099 That felt like one of the best changes ever made plus it really gave a message to the shows audience which was quite young at the time especially when Dolly and Maya end up becoming friends and hating on Ritesh rather than one another

[@lebowskisrug]

fr i loved beau. spencer was NEVER it for me.

[@twilightsquire]

The insane thing is they only got them back together because the actors were dating irl and he literally cheated on Bridgit with the girl that played Skylar, so the plot essentially happened in reality too 💀

[@stuffyworld10]

I've honestly never met anyone who was really on Ross's side. People debate whether he actually cheated, but everyone agrees that what he did was shitty either way.

[@harleymilner3189]

Agreed, not cheating for me, but in agreement it was scummy, presumptuous and proved he wasn't ready to accept responsibility

[@JP-ks7ey]

wether it was cheating or not it was kind of a big middle finger for him to hook up with some random girl like hours later

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

Ross did literally nothing wrong

[@webomaryhoptoe]

yeah, I've been cheated on a lot and that was not cheating ​@@tinfoilslacks3750

[@skdjcmsbdjc]

@@tinfoilslacks3750 hmmm. let me guess, you’re 10 years old?

[@zolaliz4000]

and most of all I hate cheating tropes as a apparent necessity that writers feel to maintain a viewer's interest in a couple. Why can't a couple just get together and be happy, and have tension in different and new ways? It feels lazy to me most times when they break the couple up bc they dont know how to write an actual relationship, they only know how to write a will they wont they (but we know they will)/think the audience is too dumb to enjoy a pairing once they are together

[@zoenoelle8844]

@@zolaliz4000 exactly! what is so wrong with a healthy couple???

[@zellalaing5439]

Ngl, for me, as soon as theres cheating, or an inappropriate level of care towards an ex, i imediately am against the couple, and will ship them wish just about anyone else.

[@zolaliz4000]

@@zellalaing5439 same!!

[@tsuki3752]

i love how ross and rachel is the epitome of what the writers do to make people invested by crazy storylines but then monica and chandler are the epitome of this ^ 😂 and we all know which couple people prefer today, and which one people absolutely can’t stand!

[@eis364]

Jake and Amy from B99 are a great example of a will they won't they couple getting together and still being well written without much unnecessary drama

[@idreadFell365]

Cheating story lines are best handled when the couple doesn’t end up back together and the cheater & the cheated moves on from each other. The whole forgiveness and taking em back is a bad message.

[@rynw.3867]

What else drives me crazy about Ross is that isn't his only cheating storyline. He also cheated on Julie - WITH RACHEL. And they weren't on a break!! But I don't recall it ever being acknowledged after Ross and Rachel got together officially.

[@analuizadefigueiredosouza7851]

SO TRUE! I HATE this obsession with making character get together when one or both of them are already in a relationship. It makes the couple start their romance in a way that paints them as bad people

[@a.h.s.3006]

Important to note: Rachel was a willing cheating partner, not once, not twice, but thrice. First was with her ex-fiancé, whom she knew full well was going to marry her best friend. Second was when she kissed Ross while he was with Julie. Third was when Ross did the mistake at the altar, instead of disappearing from the scene, she decided to make the thing all about her and actively convinced Ross to join her on his honeymoon trip, just as his wife walked in the airport to reconcile. She is an absolute cheater and a home wrecker.

[@YOSSARIAN313]

Also the Emily thing was absolutely bonkers.

[@kaleyahgilbert9840]

He also kissed Rachel while he was still dating Phoebe’s friend Bonnie

[@Kora-Mina]

@@a.h.s.3006 I do agree but she didn't convince Ross to let her come along, ross offered it and she was hesitant at first but then agreed

[@sheanartisthunty]

Cory cheating was absolutely out of left field because they’re basically inseparable as a couple by this point in the show. If there was a sign of Cory being less doting or Topanga being more distant then maybe i could’ve bought it but it’s so established how in love they are for the most part that it sucked

[@abigailgibb1304]

I get that Cory cheating was random in that point of their relationship but Cory has been slowly pissing me off throughout the show because he had other "incidents" with girls in earlier seasons too and Topanga would forgive him so easily. (Like that one time Cory was at a party, in a closet, with another girl, and Topanga called him and the girl was kissing his ear and stuff. I believe Topanga was sick. But when she found out it wasn't a big deal. And when Cory went to check out Eric's college, there was a college girl that was hitting on him and he wasn't doing a great job at saying no to her.) Sooooo, yeah I'm just saying cheating wasn't completely out of character for him, it was annoying to watch. I always feel like Topanga doesn't get mad at him enough for all his "incidents" with other girls. But I digress...

[@zellalaing5439]

Tbf I knew a couple who had been together since school, marroed had a kid, and they seemed the type to only have eyes for each other, then out of the blue came out he was seeing someone at work, imediately he came across as "nice guy" type.

[@ellafarah2885]

This plot made complete sense to me because Cory already technically cheated on her in the third season, the episode, “The Last Temptation of Cory.” And the episode, “The Grass is Always Greener.” This episode pissed me off because they were both being unfaithful

[@ThanksHermione]

@@abigailgibb1304 That time with the girl at the party, he told her that she wasn't interested and she wouldn't leave him alone. He ran away from her and she chased after him. She kissed him against his will.

[@ThanksHermione]

@@ellafarah2885 In "The Last Temptation of Cory" he told her that she wasn't interested and she wouldn't leave him alone. Cory ran away from her and she chased after him. She kissed him against his will.

[@ryandabarb]

the we were on a break made me so mad because it wasn’t used as a way to say, “we weren’t together” but a way to say “i did nothing wrong”

[@CrimsonMistress]

Same!! Like it doesn’t matter if they were technically on a break, it’s the principal. If Ross truly loved Rachel he wouldn’t have even considered sleeping with anyone, regardless of a technicality. He always only ever saw Rachel as his idealized high school crush, never as the woman she actually was, and whenever she didn’t adhere to his idea of her, he’d act like the victim

[@ssjalpha6593]

​@@CrimsonMistresshe did nothing wrong. Women gotta start taking accountability. If you are the one who ends the relationship then the only person you can be mad at is yourself.

[@CrimsonMistress]

@@ssjalpha6593 she still has the right to he upset that it took him no time at all to bring someone else into his bed. Sure it wasn’t a technical violation of the break, but it’s about the feelings involved. What does it show that someone can move on that quick? It’s disgusting.

[@chriswilliams4700]

@@CrimsonMistressin fairness, his best friends allowed him to get insanely drunk and a woman who knew he was hurting and vulnerable took complete advantage of it. Not saying he’s right, as he’s not in the right and Ross is generally a prick. But i can see his point of a view a bit, especially after hearing Mark in the apartment right after the fight.

[@tetragaming6332]

​@CrimsonMistress she lost the right to be upset about any choice he made in his life after that moment. Him getting drunk as hell and sleeping with someone who knew exactly what just happened is none of her business. What does it show that she can end a relationship then expect to still have sway over his decisions?

[@quinintheclouds]

Ross got so hung up on whether it "counted" as cheating he never actually acknowledged the harm it did and the carelessness it demonstrated. It doesn't matter if it was "cheating" or if they were "on a break." He immediately slept with another woman AND then tried to HIDE IT from Rachel. He was going to lie to her potentially forever and didn't see what was wrong about that because "we were on a break!" But to go on a break with someone implies getting back together, that the relationship isn't over, but on hiatus. Even if that's not how he interpreted it, he still broke her trust by being selfish and seeking comfort via another woman's intimacy. I never liked them as a couple anyway, they were super unhealthy and Ross was toxic and jealous and held her back at every turn out of his own insecurities. Still can't believe she gave up her DREAM JOB to go back to the man who's treated her as an image for him more than a person in of herself.

[@ashliboone9389]

Your comment really incapsulates everything that I felt throughout the whole series after the “we were on a break” stuff. And it really pissed me off too that she gave up her dream for his ass. Like he couldn’t have found a way to see their daughter and they could find ways to cop aren’t without her being the only one to compromise. It’s was always “all or nothing” with Ross’s selfishness and that was truly frustrating and infuriating to watch.

[@quinintheclouds]

@@ashliboone9389 100% agree

[@dante6985]

This. Also people get too hung up (even Rachel to a certain extent) on Ross sleeping with the girl from the copy place, when he was a sh*t sundae before that. He was obsessive, jealous, controlling, and belittled her career (dinosaurs are more important than fashion because of a movie?). It was just the last domino for Rachel to say "this relationship is fubar".

[@quinintheclouds]

@@dante6985 Yes absolutely! Even without this one incident their relationship was super unhealthy and Ross was condescending, jealous, insecure, insulting, restrictive, controlling, etc, etc

[@swordfish1390]

So it would have been totally fine for Rachel to leave and take Emma, Ross’s daughter, with her? All in the name of girl power?

[@leslieonmars758]

i’ve always felt the cheating storylines come in when writers are running out of ideas and it’s always near the end. When i see it im like oh wrap the show up.

[@kingcastlequeenbeckett]

It's a lazy attempt at drama.

[@conniethesconnie]

Long felt that the need for sex in general shows the priorities of the writers. Can't have a relationship without sex. Even if in a sexual relationship, can't be happy need to find a new conquest. Not antisex but it just seems that so often sex, especially between two reoccurring characters just ruins the show. How do you show the fallout without changing the relationships and dynamics of the entire cast? The shipping of characters seems to often be more of a fan service, an attempt to provide what they think the audience wants than to provide stories which evolve out of the characters natural evolution.

[@rei2684]

Its interesting how in stories its completely different when a women cheats instead the man. If the women cheats its the most horrific thing she could ever done and gets rarely forgive. If the man does he gets almost garanty forgiven and is portrait in a more positive light

[@wowimflyingUuuuu]

Really? :0 I always thought it was the reverse. When you look at shows like Emily In Paris and a few others i forgot about, it almost seems like the women face no consequences. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint

[@Cherrybomb-h4t]

@@wowimflyingUuuuunot disagreeing but I wonder if it’s different because those shows have women as the main characters. Also Emily is a Mary sue lol 😭

[@phi4721]

Yup.

[@zero-wp2hx]

in Friends Ross is cheated on by Carol and he ALWAYS makes her sound like such a monster. and then he does the exact same thing!!! I fucking hate Ross so much 😂

[@truffeltroll6668]

​@zero-wp2hx when did Ross cheat?

[@muniraabdirahman8617]

cory always downplayed topanga's achievements and he had a terrible habit of always screaming at her in arguments especially when their friends and others were watching. Also, I find it funny how Miley cheated on Jake first by entertaining a possible relationship with Jesse and we never thought anything of it but I guess back then the definition of cheating was different lmaoo

[@vivianthong5656]

Daniella Fishel has said herself that she believes Topanga should have gone to Yale

[@CM-jn7ef]

If they really wanted to give Cory and Topanga a cheating storyline, they should’ve made Topanga be the one who cheated. She was always more skeptical of love and the idea of soulmates than Cory so it would’ve made more sense and it would’ve tested their relationship in the same way.

[@6598102743]

Schmidt doesn’t “run in to an ex” while he’s with Cece, Cece breaks up with him, gets engaged to another man, Schmitt gets back together with his ex, and then Cece calls off her wedding because she’s still in love with him, at which point both Cece and Elizabeth agree he needs to make the choice. He was definitely fully in the wrong for cheating, it was an incredibly frustrating plot point, and I don’t condone it. But that context felt important to explain how he went from pining after Cece to cheating on her

[@athenaadams9231]

Omg thank you i was so sad he didn’t bring that up in the video

[@jordanc5204]

the way you described the timeline for schmidt n cece was actually not true! after he pines for her he wins her over, they dated then he got weird and insecure about her being a model surrounded by other men. he begins to question her capacity to cheat, making her break up with him for not trusting her enough. in the single phase, schmidt is still in love with cece and cece eventually gets ready to marry shivrang (arranged) and schmidt reconnects with elizabeth to have a plus one to make cece jealous. in the process tho he realizes that he overlooked how great elizabeth was and grows to love her again but when cece cancels her wedding to be with schmidt, he fails to break things off with elizabeth. the two girls even gave him an open chance to choose between them both and he goes out of his way to say he chose them over the other…leading to him breaking both of their hearts.

[@jordanc5204]

this timeline made it even MORE frustrating bc schmidt was given several outs to be completely fair in the situation. he ran away instead of making a choice in front of them both and eventually links up with both girls separately seemingly to break up and BOTH HANDLED IT MATURELY, elizabeth and cece were both ready to accept they weren’t the one he chose and he still LIED TO THEM BOTH!!!

[@boxingelfis1499]

​@@jordanc5204 Yeeah, it was painful to watch for sure. Especially the grief he gave Cece only to end up being the one who cheated, hurting her once more. By that point I honestly hated Schmidt as a character, all the way up to the later parts of his redemption arc because I doubted that it would be meaningful.

[@BubblyBitch21]

I was looking for this comment. I’ve seen New Girl so many times.

[@caitlyncarden5696]

thank you for commenting this, i think the order of events is so important to the cheating storyline and schmidt's characterization

[@atara500]

yes the wedding part is so important!

[@rei2684]

I just hate how the cheated on partner will just forgive the cheater almost always, like no, you broke their trust, there is no second chances 😕

[@YOSSARIAN313]

I'm glad the forgiving the cheater storyline isn't as common and the cheaters at least aren't usually the main charachters

[@elmsigreen]

Ross's defense of "we were on a break" doesn't hold much water since he actually never agreed to go on a break. Rachel suggested it and he walked out. So even if you believe that it's ok to sleep with other people while on a break, Ross and Rachel technically weren't on a break.

[@ishmaelwilliams842]

But he never disagreed either. And people also forget that he heard Rachel’s coworkers voice in the background when she called him to reconcile(I know it wasn’t what it seemed, but you have to see it from Ross’s point of view), and then lied to him about it. That arguably prompted Ross’s “transgression”.

[@zerareota1560]

That’s what I was thinking! They never agreed to go on a break. They never had a conversation about what a break meant to them. And either way, if she feels hurt, she feels hurt. Relationships are all about boundaries and he broke a big one. That’s all that matters (to me)

[@elmsigreen]

@@ishmaelwilliams842 Most of Ross's problems boil down to him being a bad communicator. He walks away immediately if he doesn't like something. Rachel suggests a break, he walks out. He hears Mark's voice in the background, he hangs up. I know Ross's first wife cheated on him and he probably has a lot of trauma related to that (Which I wish the show would have acknowledged) but his first instinct when he thinks that Rachel is cheating, is to immediately get even by cheating himself. And then the next day, instead of communicating with Rachel, he instead tries to cover everything up so that he won't have to have a difficult conversation.

[@thecabbageman1]

​@@elmsigreenThe show did acknowledge his trauma. Phoebe directly calls him out about it and even his lawyer tells him to get a therapist. The problem is Ross himself doesn't acknowledge the trauma enough to get help because if he did they couldn't make these jokes around him.

[@elmsigreen]

@thecabbageman1 I was talking about acknowledging it in the relevant episodes, not as a joke later on. I love Friends, but they were first and foremost a sitcom that didn't really tackle too difficult subjects. Phoebe and Chandler's difficult childhoods were always just played for laughs.

[@zoenoelle8844]

i am TIRED of these storylines, i hate them so much

[@witchycosmo]

What concerns me about this trope is it is usually the man in the relation that cheats, leading to the girl being heartbroken, and the man trying to win back her love, which he usually does. It leans into the whole argument "men just can't help themselves" that only idots will use as an excuse to cheat. It explains why so many male characters who are written completely out of character, but it doesn't excuse it (in my opinion it actually makes it worse and confuses me why so many shows use write this trope in the first place).

[@swordfish1390]

Agreed. I think the writers are either afraid of backlash because they don’t want to paint the woman as the villain, or they’re just that delusional and think that women don’t cheat.

[@mlgmcdonaldsland7063]

Meanwhile women just manipulate and gaslight irl

[@LydiaTaylorMusic]

Ross didnt cheat, but he did clearly show he wasnt willing to wait for rachel. So even though hes not technically a cheater, rachel is justified in dumping his ass. And tbh since the rest of the friend group was so forgiving of his behavior, if i was her i wouldve dipped entirely, get my own apartment and all. I wouldve been out of the show 💀

[@gabrielleduplessis7388]

The only reason why I felt he did cheat was because Rachel on the phone with him was trying to negotiate and maybe change her mind. But as soon as Ross heard Mark’s voice and didn’t try to get any context and hanged up the phone. He didn’t even let Rachel finish her point before just sleeping with the first person he saw in the room.

[@monicacreator3168]

Nah, a break and a break up are two different things, he cheated

[@lilil9752]

Here’s the thing, Rachel asked if Ross would be okay with her doing the same with another guy, he wasn’t. He didn’t cheat but he knew he was doing something that would hurt Rachel

[@MariU9]

I think it counts as cheating because they never established either of them COULD do things with other people during their break. He assumed he could, but didn't care enough to actually confer with her.

[@LydiaTaylorMusic]

@@lilil9752 yes, that's exactly what I was saying

[@via-anghelmagahum2586]

Apparently they were originally going to have Chandler cheat on Monica with some flight attendant too! Kudos to the late Matthew Perry who insisted that that would destroy his character and he would never do that considering his dad cheated on his mom!

[@xxnighttimexx7645]

Shawn and Angela were a good example of how tension could be brought into a relationship without a random cheating storyline. Shawn never cheated, neither did Angela, but yet their relationship was rocky as well. It made me root for them more as a couple since it seemed there was more effort and thought put into their relationship. I was so mad that Cory who was annoying, self righteous, self centered throughout their entire relationship was able to stay with Topanga but Shawn and Angela got broken up in girl meets world.

[@annadarko6056]

I hate the cheating trope. As if that's the only reason or just the main reason why relationships fail. With Ross and Rachel I thought their relationship had enough drama with Rachel wanting to focuzon her career and neglecting the relationship and Ross feeling like an afterthought and being needy. Both were kind of justified in their feelings and actions and yet both could have communicated better. The boy meets world cheating plot was stupid, but the entire show got stupid when Cory and Topanga decided to get married anyway.

[@pw8164]

Corey didn't exactly kiss Lauren; he was clearly getting way too cozy with her, and enjoying/encouraging her attention too much, but in he didn't 'kiss her', he was caught off guard by the kiss. And that's not why Topanga broke up with him. It was because he lied and tried to hide it. What's funny is, the exact same thing had happened years before and Topanga forgave him instantly after he told the truth. So the problem wasn't that he'd kissed someone else, it was that, because he didn't tell the truth, Topanga knew that it actually meant something to him. It was the emotional betrayal more than the kiss. That's why she even gave him another chance to see Lauren again or not. Instead of saying "Why? She means nothing to me." He said "Okay." And actually used a bag of jelly beans to decide which girl he loved more. It was definitely a silly show, and Corey's actions after the fact were a little out of character, but I think the plotline--while definitely contrived--was a slightly more nuanced than presented here.

[@GaryTongue-zn5di]

WRONG! Dumbass! In the video at 2:45 he is clearly kissing her just as much as she is kissing him , so it isn't even up for debate and at no point in the episode did it ever show him caught off guard, idiot.

[@zolaliz4000]

It's so interesting to me that (I think especially men) are surprised when male characters spend the first couple seasons pining and chasing after a woman and then cheats on her shortly after getting together with her... I think this is a pretty common psychology where the chase and that desire to get with the girl becomes larger than the attraction to the actual person. I also think if you spend that much time chasing someone, you never fully believe it when you "get" them (which,, has its own connotations about women as prizes and such) which leads to insecurity and then finally cheating. I actually think New Girl (however frustrating it was for me to watch) was actually pretty realistic in that sense

[@monicacreator3168]

I know right? That's the thing that annoyed me with this video, it happens all the time

[@theshire9173]

I recommend watching You (Netflix show). It follows a stalker who’s exactly like this but actually written with that intent. He’s a despicable person who truly believes he’s a hopeless romantic willing to do anything (ANYTHING) to get the woman he likes but clearly only likes the idea of her, not who she really is. I highly recommend it, but it definitely went for way too long and lost the plot. The first season is really interesting though. I love how he genuinely helps a kid and therefore believes he’s a good person but the writers are smart enough to know that one act of kindness doesn’t undo the terrible things he does

[@NeshaBoo21]

​@@theshire9173this is one of the most popular shows yet you wrote this like it was lesser known 😂

[@theshire9173]

@@NeshaBoo21 Not everyone knows about this show. I just wanted to give a recommendation

[@NeshaBoo21]

@@theshire9173 ik, it was just funny to me

[@sagejennings4342]

Shoutout to John Krasinski for outright refusing to film cheating on Pam with that new sales girl so they didn't do it.

[@asalways1504]

The cheating trope is why I loathe will they won’t they storylines. It just adds a bunch of unnecessary drama, especially when the show has established that the couple is endgame.

[@midomidusunsel]

Tbh I really think that Cory's cheating was kinda being prepared. He always wanted to have sex and even kinda pressured Topanga at times, and she always said she didn't want it until they got married. I really believe that made Cory look outwards (hate him for that). And Lauren is in my opinion portrayed more to be flirtatious, which Cory is really impressed by. Idk

[@EvieAsgard]

Idk, with the Ross/Rachel thing, I watched that ep again recently, and Rachel calls *and speaks to* Ross while he's at the bar getting close and personal with the copy girl. Rachel tells Ross, *at the bar*, that she didn't really mean she wanted a break and that they should still be together. It's only when Ross hears Mark's voice, who had showed up despite Rachel *telling him not to*, that Ross refuses to listen, hangs up the phone, and proceeds to hook up with coffee girl, in his own apartment, *despite Rachel calling him repeatedly and leaving messages all through the night telling him she doesn't want to fight and she already told Mark to F off*. He knew before the next day that Rachel didn't mean it, he just didn't listen because of his pride/vanity/(UNFOUNDED)paranoia(because Rachel never, ever reciprocated Mark's feelings, she says this multiple times). Like, she tried to get him back WITHIN AN HOUR, the only reason he's in the predicament he's in is because he's stubborn. Ross definitely cheated. I didn't used to think so, but watching it again... yeah.

[@emilywest3669]

It’s crazy how we miss small bits like that. I completely never thought about what Rachel had said on that phone call where he hears mark all I ever remember is he hears mark. But you are so right she was saying right then that she didn’t mean what she had said about taking a break. 🤯

[@izzypedal6371]

this!!!!!!!! exactly!!!! it honestly feels like he hangs on the *technicality* of them being on a "break" because he knows that he has LITERALLY no other ground to stand on in that argument. it also feels extra scummy to me that he agrees to sleep with the copy place girl after he talks to rachel on the phone and hears mark, like he only finally decides to do it as a way to get back at her. i always hear the argument of him being drunk and brokenhearted, but to me i really feel like he did that because he wanted to hurt her. he gets so hung up on them being "on a break" because if you actually look at the events and what took place then you see that his intention in doing that WAS to make rachel upset (/get back at her), which he literally never owns up to. to me, this whole exchange really speaks to their relationship and why i fawking hate ross: he is at his core, jealous of rachel and wants to tear her down at every opportunity she gets or makes for herself because of his own insecurities. she has her flaws (many, actually) but he straight up makes her life miserable because he wants to nail down his fantastical high school crush version of her. she isn't a whole or separate person to him.

[@EvieAsgard]

@@izzypedal6371 Omg yes!! He absolutely hangs on that technicality, but it's worse because he's actually convinced himself of his own "technicality" - otherwise he wouldn't be so offended by the prospect that his own independent actions were, in fact, fully his own independent responsibility. (And it's not even much of a technicality when Rachel told him almost immediately that she didn't mean it, which he ignored because he's a self righteous---sorry I digress). He drank his own koolaid, if you will. And it drives me crazy now, that the other friends also did too, partially - they're like "oh, yeah, I can definitely understand your side too, Ross" - WHAT? His feelings are understandable, absolutely, but his ACTIONS are not. I mean, you could follow the reasons up to why he got there, but not to the point that his actions cross the threshold to becoming *acceptable.* Yes, he was jealous, and hearing the guy he's so jealous of when he talks to Rachel must have hurt. But not only is that jealousy unfair to Rachel (he's basically punishing her for another man being attracted to her, and for her not just being a straight jerk to the face of a guy who she considers a friend and who got her her dream job, so being a jerk to him would be shooting herself in the foot), but also his jealousy is so engrossing that he doesn't even let himself listen to her say she wants to be together, he focuses singly on Mark's voice and completely misses the fact that this conversation means that the guy Ross is so uncontrollably jealous over, just heard Rachel say with her whole chest that she loves Ross and he's the one she wants to be with. That should be a victory to Ross, especially with the way he sees Rachel as this sort of prize to be won, but instead he shuts her down in favor of going back to copy girl for a nice little revenge hookup. It was absolutely to hurt her. It was "How dare you be platonically sitting next to a guy I'm unnecessarily jealous of, I'll show you by boinking the Copy baddie!" Especially knowing that with the way phones and machines worked back then, he spent the whole night hearing his phone ring, hearing her leaving messages, and THEN he acts surprised in the morning when she says for the millionth time atp that she wants to get back together. "Oh no, what have I done? I would never have done this if--" NO. You did this even though you DID know, homie. You knew almost immediately, but you ignored it until the next morning and then wanted to act all innocent and guilty. I see a lot of pity for Ross from dudebro friends fans who like to say Rachel was the real problem, but. It was his choice, his action. Instead of *trusting* her (y'know, the bedrock of a healthy relationship) when she *honestly* tells him she doesn't reciprocate the feelings - Ross's refusal to trust Rachel is HIS fault, not hers for not being a jerk to the guy she considers a friend who got her her dream job. Yes he was broken hearted, but so was Rachel! And only ONE of them hooked up with the first cute person they could find. I've seen people say it was a betrayal for Rachel to have Mark over, but again, she told him no and he showed up anyway; she spent the whole time talking about Ross, and as soon as Ross hung up on her she sent Mark home because his presence had upset Ross so much; and, she was always honest about her lack of feelings for Mark. Yes, I can see how it would have hurt extra for Ross to hear him, but Rachel would have been just as crushed to have Ross hang up on her and ignore her all night after her asking to stay together. And yet, *she* did not hook up with Mark out of revenge, she sends him home (even later when she has a chance to bang him post breakup, she tells Mark that getting with him would only be to get back at Ross, which shows even more how wrong Ross was to hound her over this). People want to defend Ross and say "well can't you imagine how that made him feel?" while forgetting to apply that logic the other way around. Instead they just expect Rachel to have structured (or rather, de-structured) her entire life and goals and dreams to appease Ross's unfounded jealousy, because THAT'S what a "good girlfriend" would do. It's total BS. Edit: OMG I'm so sorry this comment is so long Justice for Rachel though, y'all! Lol

[@a.h.s.3006]

BULLCRAP!!!. She did not call Ross, HE CALLED HER!!! He wasn't making moves on the copy girl, the copy girl just happened to be around. From his perspective he was trying to make up with her and she was cheating on him with Mark. He doesn't know that she told mark to F off, he doesn't know she told him not to come, the only thing he knows is that he was dumped and she was moving on immediately as she brought a man he was specifically fighting about to her home. The show runners made a great effort to make his perspective over reality as ambiguous as possible where every information he gets is filtered down to the worst.

[@EvieAsgard]

@@a.h.s.3006 Okay it doesn't matter who called who, the fact is she still told him she didn't want to fight and that she didn't really mean the breakup, and he hung up before listening to anything else she had to say. It's all on him, and he and the copy girl were all up in each others' space leading up to and after, so it's hypocritical of him to refuse to listen to why another guy is around her. What's "BULL CRAP" is claiming that he thinks she dumped him, what he KNOWS is that she literally told him during the phone call that that SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BREAK UP. So anything Ross did after was fully on him. Rachel didn't say anything the next morning she didn't already say on the phone, and back then your messages played out loud, so he would have heard her messages all night, too (there's even instances in the show that you see, they hear their messages as they play out loud). Ross just ignored it all long enough to sleep with the copy girl, and after that he wanted to act like a victim, despite not even caring anymore that he heard Mark's voice and refused to let Rachel explain (again, right after she had already told him in his perfectly hearing ear that she didn't mean the breakup). His perception (which we are shown was incorrect on all counts in regards to Rachel and Mark) and his actions are his responsibility. What he "thought" wasn't reality, and that information was readily available to him before he took any action. Plugging your ears and singing "lalalala" because you're stubborn and reactive doesn't mean that the information presented to you isn't there in front of you. It doesn't disappear because you ignore it.

[@hellogoditsmesara3569]

Rachel suggested a break and Ross stormed out, that’s not a break because there was no mutual agreement

[@brian90839]

You are right. It wasn't a break. It was Ross getting dumped.

[@lrockyfan5106]

There doesn’t need to be a mutual agreement for a break. Same way there doesn’t need to be a mutual agreement for a breakup.

[@smithsunleashed]

@@lrockyfan5106a break and breaking up is different. You take the decision of going on a break if both of them agree to do so, so if they get back together that it would be fine. There should be a mutual agreement. Y’all should always stop defending Ross. Even David himself would say Ross cheated

[@lrockyfan5106]

@@smithsunleashed yeah right, if Rachel says “we need to go on a break”and Ross says “No,” he can’t just force her to keep dating him just because he didn’t agree.

[@cardwitch91]

Right? He didn’t even say, “What you’re breaking up with me?!” At least then Rachel could’ve clarified what she meant. Really, that whole discussion wasn’t a break or a break-up - it was an argument without a proper conclusion

[@lunalovegoat]

i feel like the biggest issue is that Ross hurt Rachel regardless of their relationship status, and she has every right to be upset about that. the fact that he always shouts 'we were on a break' instead of 'im sorry i hurt you', tells me he's still doesnt understand it.

[@ImaTroper]

Rachel hurt Ross pretty bad when she stopped him at the door to explicitly tell him a "break" means "a break in their relationship". I.e. they are broken up. Which is what lead to him drinking himself silly at the bar.

[@alwaysrootingfortheantihero123]

ross and rachel should have had a conversation abt what “a break” entails. that way they could figure out why they would that and if it would be helpful.

[@Tumblekitten]

I always enjoy shows where the couple stays together and has realistic difficulties in a relationship (see: Brooklyn 99 with a lot of their couples but notably Jake and Amy, Parks and Rec, same deal but Ben and Leslie notably, The Office with Jim and Pam), when the struggle is external (see: The Good Place, Chidi and Eleanor) or when romance just isn’t the main focus in a show and it’s all friendship. I hate cheating arcs (and a lot of poorly executed breakup arcs) because it feels like I’ve been strung along for no reason and something had been ruined

[@ValdikBlackstone]

First, is it just me that notices Rachel seems surprised after she says "a break" and then says "A break from us"? Second, the most infuriating part of the Ross and Rachel breakup to me is, their dates kept getting cut short for his work and she had to be okay with it and sit patiently. Then he kept showing up at her job, creating chaos and disrupting her job that was dependent on immediate actions. He expected her to apologize to him, he brings up Mark, again, and she needed a break. Ross ran off, didn't talk about it further, slept with someone else and then when she didn't want to talk to him about it, he accused HER of wanting to run as soon as things get difficult and not fighting for their relationship! It pisses me off so much. Also, whether or not they were on a break, he had been talking for like, two or more seasons about how they were so meant to be. So, why would he be willing to risk that at all?

[@lovetahsin]

tbh the whole cheating trope with ross and rachel started WAYYY before they were together almost a foreshadow tbh and people underlook it tbh. when ross was with julie, he kissed rachel (?) and rachel having the audacity to choose, they (ross and julie) did not even BREAK UP. They were about to share an apartment or a cat if i'm not wrong? So technically, once a cheater, always a cheater. I feel like if he didn't know about rachel's feelings him and julie would've worked out.

[@a.h.s.3006]

"once a cheater, always a cheater" Rachel was a willing partner in a cheating relationship with her ex-fiancé, then tried to confess her love to Ross, on his wedding day to another woman, then convinced him to run with her on his planned honeymoon instead of his wife. She has always been a cheater.

[@larryclowers]

The worst example was the retconned cheating of Lenard from The Big Bang Theory. It was never even hinted at that he kissed another woman a season ago while on a research trip. Then suddenly when he and Penny were driving off to get married he decided to confess to cheating.

[@lucianmerganafreak]

Some people have this strange fear about writing committed relationships.

[@HelloFlash-ud6ur]

I always thought Ross was pretty clear that it was either the relationship or Rachel's job. He was making fun of her job, disapproving of her coworkers, etc. That wasn't her first job or her first time in a fashion company. No, it was the way she was putting more time to her job, which all of us do when we find something we are passionate about. He was sabotaging her job and the realtionship at the same time. And seeing which she'll pick. When she didn't drop the job and tried to pause the relationship, he couldn't take it. He was ready to walk out and he did. But he couldn't move on and try to get her back but didn't tell her the truth. Because he knew that if he told her about his one night stand, she would want some time. Again, he didn't want to pause the realtionship so he hid it.

[@xoazrael4467]

so true

[@elgronewald]

Plus this job for her was a huge step for her career and considering she started out in the pilot as a runaway bride that always relied on “daddy’s money” and she branches out on her own…Ross was there for ALL of that. He even listed “just a waitress” in his pro/con list when he was trying to choose between her and Julie. So Rachel eventually gets into fashion and starts doing something she obviously loves and is passionate about and he gets mad she’s working too much. Like?!? It’s like it’s actually not about the job but having Rachel available to him as he likes 😐

[@HelloFlash-ud6ur]

@@elgronewald Yes! It was a life of rachel that he can't get access to. I mean, he can just meet her at the coffee house when she worked there. And the next job, she wasn't very busy. Now Rachel was working hard and had no time for him during her working hours. He tried to relate and get into that world by going to a fashion class with her. But he was very disrespectful, making jokes and sleeping in there. Honestly, I would have dumped him so fast then.

[@boogitywoogity248]

The Ross situation is the perfect example of two things can be true at once, Ross didn’t cheat on her, he also did something exceedingly damaging to his relationship. She asked for a break, he took the break and made it permanent. You can’t justifiably say Ross is a good guy for what he did, but you can justifiably say he didn’t cheat.

[@l.n.3372]

Yes, Ross can be scummy while not cheating. Both can definitely be true simultaneously

[@FirstBloodStar]

Not just Ross but the writers did something damaging to this relationship 😭 I just wanted Rachel to move on and find someone else

[@MariU9]

I think Ross explicitly cheated 🤷🏽‍♀️ they weren't officially broken up, and Rachel never set the term that either of them could act single during the break. If you're not explicitly single and your partner has not given you explicit clearance to do stuff with other people and you do, you cheated.

[@GoeTeeks]

I don't think it matters whether or not they were on a break. Ross slept with someone else specifically and solely to hurt Rachel. He got exactly what he wanted (in the moment). Even though he apologized he needs to take full responsibility for his action.

[@andriusbruzas9211]

Ross 'we decided to break up instead', Rachel 'we broke up', 'can I be your girlfriend again'. Pretty explicit to me. Ross is a douche for sleeping around so soon, but did not cheat.

[@K37-h1z]

Rachel said they needed a break, I don't think ross cheated. No a Kool move by any means but didn't technically cheat

[@kiranolan7104]

​@@GoeTeeksThat's ridiculous. Ross slept with that girl not to hurt Rachel, but because HE was devastated and heartbroken over losing her. I know Ross wasn't perfect, but he also wasn't the jerk people seem to think.

[@GoeTeeks]

@@kiranolan7104 Yes. And he wanted Rachel to feel that same exact hurt.

[@thecabbageman1]

People need to start addressing the fact that Ross was black out drunk and that girl (Chloe I think?) kept coming onto him and encouraging him to buy drinks all night. So he was kinda taken advantage of.

[@stevehope4572]

YES!!!!!!

[@JordanKerr25or7]

Thank you 👍🏻

[@naydine4339]

Omygosh I never realized that

[@a.r.mproductions5616]

He was so surprised to find himself the next morning in bed with her

[@swordfish1390]

Exactly. No one seems to want to talk about this and are quick to villainize him.

[@lovefromwonderland]

I feel like there are much more compelling storylines you can do with couples than just jealousy and cheating. It doesn't always have to be cheating. There are plenty of other things couples fight about.

[@Catstronautgirl]

Cheating as an “accident” never made sense to me. You have to let *something* simmer for it to happen. Flirty behavior, a touch here and there, it’s always an escalation. For a partner to cheat, they make the conscious choice to disrespect you. I uphold my belief that people that get cheated on and forgive are people with low self esteem, I’ve never seen a person that respects themselves that tolerates that sort of disrespect.

[@sagejennings4342]

It also pisses me off the narrative that every time there's a cheating plotline, it's the man, and the messaging there that you should forgive your cheating boyfriend - while even the PROSPECT of a woman doing it is unforgivable. In actuality, both should be unforgivable! Ross thought Rachel MIGHT cheat on him how COULD she in his hypothetical so he cheated on her instead but it's okay when HE does it? Absolute bs. It's always "but you should forgive your cheating BOYfriend"

[@justagecko]

6 mintues in, I just need to get this off my chest. Friends really messed up what I thought "being on a break" meant because of how it's regularly used as a punchline out of context. When I was a kid, I thought it was a break up and it wasn't until I actually watched the show and read fan discussions where I figured out what a break was. It's such a straightforward concept, but the way the writers kept repeating it made me think that it meant something else. I'm just glad my confusion hasn't influenced any of my relationships

[@analuizadefigueiredosouza7851]

The fact that so many male characters in fiction cheat, become better men after that and manage to win back their betrayed love interest creates a very serious real life problem, and I think it's about time TV fiction is held accountable for its share on this issue: in real life, most men who cheat DON'T become better versions of themselves, DON'T do the work to honor their love interest from then on & DON'T stop cheating. Yet, so many women still forgive men who cheat on them due to that unrealistic expectation created by fictitious characters. Such writing further reinforces the cultural norm of men being allowed to cheat and women being taught to forgive cheaters. When the opposite rarely happens. Not only women cheat way less than men, but they also aren't forgiven as often. Last but not least, in real life most men DON'T EVEN REGRET being with someone else. A couple of them might regret hurting their partner, but not getting involved with another woman they find attractive. So writers really should reflect on the consequences of their work.

[@angelagokool9514]

Granted, Rachel never established the parameters of the "break," but it still didn't justify Ross cheating on her. It sounded like they could've further discussed their issues, and how to resolve them. Clearly, Ross was possessive and jealous, when Rachel became friendly with Mark. In fact, licensed therapist Jonathan Decker of KZbin's Cinema Therapy further discussed their relationship on his other KZbin channel, Mended Light. It's worth a look. I think it was called "Ross and Rachel: On a Break?" Also, Ross often had issues with women, that often involved him becoming jealous, but mainly, these issues were in his relationship with Rachel. I don't think anyone expected Cory to cheat on Topanga. It was completely out of character for him. Usually, when it's the guy doing the cheating, the girlfriend is the good girl, that we end up sympathizing with, and the guy is the one who tries to justify it, by saying that it was the girlfriend's "fault," that he cheated in the first place, even though she did nothing wrong, whether it was Rachel's suggesting that she and Ross take a "break," or Topanga's testing the waters of hers and Cory's relationship, since he didn't know how he felt about her. If the girl were doing the cheating, she'd be labelled a "slut." But when it's the guy, he has to be redeemed, and we have to end up forgiving him. Another example that should've been mentioned comes from The Big Bang Theory. Before Leonard and Penny had their spontaneous Vegas wedding, he had revealed to her that on an overseas Science expedition, he'd kissed another woman. This had put a strain on their relationship, and it was all she could think about, after they were married. He'd even admitted to still keeping in contact with this woman, as she was a work colleague. But, of course, this being a sitcom, he had to be forgiven. The relationship was redeemed, with a second wedding. The reasoning behind Leonard's cheating, according to Amy and Bernadette, was that Leonard didn't think that he was good enough for Penny. Clearly, it's the insecurity of these male characters that somehow, in the eyes of the writers, justify these cheating story lines.

[@mimimimimi_x]

The big thing on the Ross/Rachel scenario is that Ross clearly knew he was in the wrong because he did everything to cover his tracks... And tbh, him and Rachel never even worked as a couple. She was too good for him.

[@christinal.7453]

I agree 100% Ross/Rachel didn't work as a couple. Sure they enjoyed sleeping together and making dramatic shows of affection, but that's college stuff. They weren't compatible as a long-term relationship. It's why they barely lasted a year together. My headcanon is after the finale, they lasted all of 1 week and Rachel managed to save her job, went to Paris with Emma, and lived her best life.

[@Cassie829]

In my opinion Ross never respected Rachel because he belittled her job and refused to trust her not to cheat, there's no way they would've lasted whether or not the break incident happened

[@pw8164]

It's not so much a question of 'was Ross technically wrong?' Technicalities don't really matter. The fact is, if he ever hoped to actually FIX his relationship, then he ought to have had the foresight NOT to go get drunk with the thirsty girl from the copy place. And if he thought Rachel was already cheating with the dude from her job, he could have confronted her about it, instead of making assumptions (granted, that would be exactly the kind of behavior she wanted a break from). He was clearly too immature for her at the time. That being said, if a relationship's going to work, both parties have to show some compassion and understanding for each others' shortcomings. Rachel, knowing how insecure Ross was--especially about Mark--should absolutely not have had him over, ESPECIALLY that night. All in all, genius idea for a video. The comments will never end!

[@ashleydortch2445]

I think that Ross got drunk because he was depressed that Mark was at Rachel's place. Then Chloe took advantage of him

[@thedigitalescape]

the cece one triggered me. he constantly pined after her, even after and during cheating on her. she's gorgeous and could have literally anyone (and i love Schmidt)

[@FatimaL9294]

The schmidt and cece one pisses me off the most because he was so awful afterwards and I hated more how so many viewers still wanted them back together. His cheating and behaviour afterwards led to the downfall of the show

[@raspar6]

To be honest this is one of those story tropes where I'm like: "who on the production team has an agenda to push?" Specially the agenda is the idea that someone can cheat and still be "a great guy who just made a little mistake...." I swear once you start looking at scripts from the "agenda" angle, a *whole* lot of things make way more sense....

[@trinaq]

I was always on Ross' side in terms of his and Rachel's infamous "break." To be fair, I would also have construed "A break from us" as meaning a break up, but he really messed up by refusing to take responsibility for his own actions, instead of moving on with Rachel. Even Joey and Chandler pointed this out to him.

[@quendallas2604]

Why are you everywhere

[@ApequH]

A break does mean a and to the break. If I take a break at work I don't go home for the day (or for ever) everyone knows I will be back soon

[@x-man9473]

​@@ApequHcomparing a relationship to working at a job is stupid on so many levels

[@truffeltroll6668]

​@ApequH if you take a break from work, are you allowed to do a different work during that time? And a relationship is not an office job jesus

[@EmRose.r]

In Girl Meets World Tapenga keeps the letter Cory got from the girl to like "prove that it doesn't matter and to rip it up just to prove it" or something like that 😭😭 like, no! No self-respecting, stable in their relationship, secure in themself person would keep something like that as a REMINDER OF HOW STRONG THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS!!

[@art-sploo320]

Here's the thing with Ross and Rachel, at least for me. While yes they "were on a break," he went and slept with another woman immediately after Rachel suggested a break. On the night of their anniversary. Like Rachel said when Ross said he thought their relationship was dead, "well then that was one hell of a wake/afterparty." I think the main issue that sparked the whole debate was that it wasn't clear on what "the break" was. Rachel didn't specify what she meant, and I think she was too angry and stressed to really think about it/explain what she thought it meant and Ross didn't consider to give her space and try to talk about it.

[@souvikbose8282]

It is hilariously obvious what she meant to anyone who took the time to watch the 2 episodes in season 3....when rachel said she wanted a break ross first thought she means a break from the argument. Rachel clearly tells him "break from us" which never once means she just wanted space...to drive this further the next day she tells Monica she and ross kinda broke up and later on asks ross to be his girlfriend *again*. Before finding out about the copy girl she herself didn't view herself as ross' girlfriend...the only reason she manipulated the narrative was because she could never take accountability for her actions and wants everything to be ross' fault.

[@fionaearp8032]

If Ross did nothing wrong, why did he lie to her? That was an additional betrayal in and of itself. Then he refuses to take any accountability ever ugh

[@sequoyachu98]

When you mentioned shows that have characters who cheated and it makes sense one example I can think of is insecure. One of the main characters had been in an established relationship for years but you can sense the tension in it and once it actually happens you can understand why while still not condoning her actions. It was like the penultimate thing of the first season and it was a big thing for the rest of the 4 seasons of the show.

[@Agnes1322]

I hate the argument of couples not being interesting enough if they don't cheat on each other. There are SO many ways to introduce drama to a couple storyline without one of them cheating, especially in an ensemble cast where one couple doesn't have to carry the whole weight. I really like to point to How I Met Your Mother for an example of this. Lily and Marshal spend the majority of the series as a couple and they get tons of storylines that have nothing to do with cheating

[@jp3813]

Regarding the Friends storyline, I think you meant that as an example of "prolonged will-they-or-won't-they storylines are lazy" b/c you conceded that the cheating storyline is actually intricately written.

[@graceypoje5709]

Cory actually cheated on topanga before when he kissed a girl in the closet while topanga is sick but she tells him never to do it again

[@shreyaprasai17]

i really hated Schmidt & Cece cheating storyline was so unnecessary and so out of character for schmidt from the start he likes cece and wants a future with her & he spent so much of the first seasons getting to know her convincing her to date him that rlly pissed me off that he cheated

[@hanna__7391]

Especially cause the insecurity they tried to set up came out of no where. It literally makes no sense that he was insecure about her modeling around men considering he never showed any apprehension toward her career up to that point. He knew he would be dating a model and it wasn't a problem when they were seeing each other before being official (which you'd think would cause more insecurity since they weren't even exclusive then)

[@nostalgiamostalgia0319]

Atypical's storyline with the parents cheating was so pathetic because it was trying to appeal to *that* demographic and it was rightfully dropped after Season 1 and they helped each other like a healthy couple would.

[@giovanmorabonilla6400]

Ross definatly cheated. If you take a break from your homework it doesn't mean that you're done with your homework. He cheated. But I personally don't get "breaks". If you need some alone-time that's fine but don't give it a label. If you're too frusturated for your relationship with the person you love so much that you need a break, you are too frusturated for a relationship, period. Please, have some alone-time if needed but either commit or leave. /MHO

[@StrykerPrime]

Ross and Rachel should never have gotten back together and Ross should have just let her go because their relationship is one of the worst I’ve ever seen in TV history. Fight me Why do people love Ross and Rachel so much when Chandler and Monica are in the show?

[@dante6985]

Nostalgia. The Ross-at-prom scene. David Schwimmer and Jennifer Aniston are attractive, charismatic people and had crushes on each other IRL.

[@fluttercup277]

Okay I never comment on anything mainly because I don’t feel like arguing with strangers, BUT this topic of cheating has always enraged me idk why. I do feel like people in general connect forgiveness to remaining in the relationship when they aren’t connected at all. You can forgive someone, though it’s hard, for cheating and they can seek forgiveness’s from you. This does not mean the relationship needs to continue. Forgiveness does not negate consequences. A relationship ending is a natural consequence to your choice to cheat. If someone chooses to stay, that is a separate choice from forgiveness. Some people stay and have never forgiven the person🤷🏾‍♀️. Okay that’s all byee lol

[@vittoriacolangelo509]

I'm so happy that someone have decided to talk about this

[@they.luv.mickey]

I feel like men cheating on women is too popular in shows. I’m not trying to say that cheating is someone anyone could do cuz it shouldn’t be but still it get’s annoying in every tv show that the men cheat, it would be interesting if som e women cheat.

[@andreal7441]

i have always had a deep rooted fear of my favorite tv couples getting together for this exact reason: because the longer they were in an established relationship on screen, the more likely the writers were going to introduce this exact trope for more drama. it felt like it happened so often, i started having trust issues

[@Book_Dragon2562]

I am going to respectfully disagree with your assessment of boy meets world. The first reason being I don’t feel like it was completely out of character for Cory. We have seen Cory struggle with attraction to other girls with the mono episode. We’ve seen him struggle with getting too comfortable in a relationship in the episode where he goes to the party pretending to be Shawn and she pretends to be a french girl. Cory is a senior in high school. He’s right on the precipice of adulthood and he’s been with Topanga for quite some time. He has never really had a significant connection with another female. Which leads me to why this doesn’t feel like cheap drama. This felt like something that needed to be explored. Topanga had been the only girl in his life for so long. He never really had any other options to explore. Especially, not with Shawn in the mix. At some point, Cory had to be given a viable option other than Topanga, otherwise he never chose her.

[@GoeTeeks]

Right? Like it's not so often explored how young people should have options and that feelings for someone else comes out of left field for all involved, including the cheater.

[@khfan4life365]

The worst one, to me, was George and Izzie from Grey’s Anatomy. Their romantic relationship made no sense. They were perfect as friends who were like siblings. Even the actors had no idea why the relationship happened.

[@l.n.3372]

Yeah that one was bad. Even worse is that it ruined George's marriage AND the show made it very clear that George/Izzy doesn't work as a relationship

[@MsCrane13]

The cheating and "WE WERE ON A BREAK" in Friends always annoys me so much, exactly because the discussion around it in the show is whether they were or were not broken up at the point of it. But even if they were, Ross cultivated this persona that was in love with Rachel since like high school, which keeps getting brought up, but then he doesn't even wait a day after he thinks they're broken up to sleep with someone else. Like that doesn't exactly read like he really loved her. And when she comes back he lies.

[@analuizadefigueiredosouza7851]

Even to this day we see the narrative of "unpopular girl has a crush on popular guy who already has a girlfriend, but she's mean, so the viewers must root for them to share a sparkle". If someone already has a significant other, leave it that. How come people like a lead character that doesn't respect other people's relationships? However from Netflix teen movies to Legend of Korra, this plot continues to be used

[@lyssagames4311]

I stopped watching Hart of Dixie because of a cheating plot line. Sucks because I really liked that show. The cheating ruins a perfectly good couple. I don’t know who in the writer’s room keeps thinking it’s a good idea to throw cheating into a beloved couple. They tried to get John Krazinski’s character Jim to cheat on Pam but he refused because not only was it out of character, it would make people hate him!

[@simoncarr8070]

They did this in the big bang theory where they'd had painfully little development of their characters for most of the show and then when Leonard and Penny are finally going to get married they have Leonard retroactively cheat on her. After spending years having him worship the earth she walks on he's going to have a drunken kiss? If there was any consistency with his character he'd just end up slurring how much he adores her. Exactly as you said, it really just felt like trying to inject unnecessary drama instead of writing a proper storyline.

[@x-man9473]

There is no such thing as "taking a break". You're either in a relationship or not. And there's also a implication of the woman taking advantage of him while he's drunk. The only problem with Ross was the part where he didn't come clean when she got back together with him.

[@Melmel_1011]

It’s crazy to me that no one is pointing out they never actually came to a conclusion or had a conversation about going on a break. It was a suggestion but Ross walked out before they could actually have a conversation about anything.

[@K1893]

I have never liked a couple again after a cheating storyline. It just ruins them in my eyes.

[@Aujasvi-og1kr]

the reason i love himym is because they didnt make lily and marshall cheat instead they came up with that lily wanting to be a painter plotline which was much more complex and relate able

[@Mothworx]

Much like with real life people, if a character cheats on their partner, I will never see them the same way again. I will never be able to trust them or feel for their emotions.

[@duncanw5644]

You have no idea how much I roll my eyes at all of the cheating that happens in comics. Seriously, whenever comic writers run out of ideas they always fall back on cheating.

[@williamroseboroshowofficial]

"She chose wrong" is GOBSMACKING!!

[@KayGee_yt]

"My girlfriend and I were on a break" is a different sentence from "My girlfriend and I broke up." They could've fought about ANYTHING.

[@chichizekitty5694]

Just for Arguments sake.. Ross didn't cheat by sleeping with someone else.. But the way he ran around, trying to hide it from her, broke trust.. And THAT is where he cheated

[@Amitrolu125]

One of the thing I hate in friends is that Ross never had to face consequences for cheating on his ex with Rachel

[@Kir_by._.]

with ross and Rachel, my issue is that i don't care if it was a break or break up why is his first thing to do after fighting and almost losing the woman that he loves is sleep with someone else? like how much did he care for her if he can just sleep with somone else not even a day after the fight.

[@meegsoteegs]

THANK GOD SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT

[@maddiemcnugget1076]

I'm sending you a bill for making me watch those first 3 clips. JK, but one thing I don't like is how a lot of these shows are telling us, especially women to forgive cheating. Yeah I know a TV show can't tell me what to do, but it's normalizing it to the audience so when someone cheats in real life, the victim's family and friends are more likely to tell them to forgive the cheater "Don't waste all that time you spent with them" "Besides that, they're a good partner" "In the end of the day, they came back to your house and chose you". Ugh. Friends don't let a cheater back in your life.

[@GoeTeeks]

Cheating is a thing that happens in more relationships than not. It hurts, it sucks. You absolutely should take all the time needed separated to process your feelings. But it shouldn't be the sole reason to end a relationship. Motives for the cheating matter. Other aspects of the relationship matter. That said, just being together for a long time isn't justification to let them back in. It really depends on how both people feel about each other, whether forgiveness CAN be granted, whether accountability for the cheater IS taken, and whether or not trust and love can be restored. If it absolutely can't, or if the cheater is just gonna keep cheating (or only sorry they got caught), then yeah, dump their ass.

[@mittag983]

​@@GoeTeeksCheating can spread STDs and can make you permanently disabled. It can be grape without the g by coercion.

[@absynthefaerie]

The thing is the Cory cheating on Topanga wasn’t out of left field. Early in their relationship he cheated on her with a popular girl in the basement of her house. Yes he thought it was a party but it ended up a double date with her, a friend, and Shawn. Then he also semi cheated while out with Shawn looking at colleges because Topanga was worried about being alone with him without adult supervision so he was mad. If I remember correctly too there is another time he was pulled into cheating by Shawn. About the only time I can see him not cheating is in the Girl Meets World series because he is too goofy. To me the Bot Meets World but that was more out of left field was Topanga breaking up with Cory because of her parents divorce.

[@EF-kk3vh]

I’m curious if you’d want to do a follow up video about shows that actually use cheating/dubious fidelity as a vehicle to get the main love interests together. Like Pam + Jim with Roy in The Office, Jess + Nick with Sam in New Girl, Jake + Amy with Teddy in B99, etc. Not all of these instances were exactly cheating, but the idea that the only way to create stakes for a relationship or get the audience to root for a couple is to have a third character “stand in the way” of their relationship feels a bit lazy to me just like the examples in this video. Surely there’s another way to create build up for a couple? Idk. Great video!

[@grapeskitlls]

Agreed, this also happens in Superstore with Amy and Jonah.

[@dirtyprancing5930]

8:04 You can only be team Ross if you don’t have a spouse though 😂 that’s how you know

[@samengelage3521]

IMO, you can't be on either team if you look at this situation objectively. Ross is in the wrong for going out to a bar, getting drunk, and sleeping with someone he just met and then lying about it afterwards. He's not wrong for wanting to be comforted during a difficult time and he's not wrong about being frustrated about Rachel being distant and not putting time into their relationship. If he's not getting his needs met, he's allowed to voice that. Rachel is in the wrong for not validating Ross' concerns regarding their relationship and instead making it seem like he's worrying over nothing. Invalidating the other person's point of view is an easy way to make a relationship miserable. She's also in the wrong for not caring about his side of the story and prioritizing her own feelings without thinking about his and what lead them both to the situation they found themselves in. She's not wrong for being upset with him having sex with someone else that he barely knows and she's especially not wrong for being hurt over him lying about it. Overall, that whole situation started from poor communication on Rachel's part, spiraled due to a lack of humility and self-control on Ross' part and an overall lack of maturity on both their parts.

[@l.n.3372]

Rachel sabotages almost all of Ross relationships.

[@carysbebard3690]

​@@samengelage3521she did validate his concern that they weren't spending as much time together as he wanted, during the break up conversation. She also expressed her feeling that she is happy with how her career is going and enjoys having part of her life that is just hers. In trying to work through to a solution to this difference in needs, she lands on saying "maybe we need a break from us [if it's making us both miserable as it is]" at which point Ross leaves. Then, from Rachel's perspective, her friend comes over to support her through a difficult time (he called her and then insisted on seeing her) and she goes to see Ross the next morning to try and work things out again. It could be argued that Rachel was insensitive for not thinking about how it might hurt Ross to know that Mark was over until Ross called and she tried to lie about it, but for the initial conflict I don't see how she was in the wrong at all. She was trying to work on things, Ross was trying to bury things.

[@RasenRendanX]

Oh man this is gonna be another great video from you.