TROPES VS CLICHES

[@Shatterverse]

"Why is there a woman stuffed in your fridge?" "I'm just saving her for later in case I get hungry."

[@Reamstreams]

Mmm vore Wait what

[@tylerourada9719]

Clarisse

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

That's almost a legendary cliche at some circles in D&D. Which somehow elevates it back to a useable status as a joke... weirdly. ;o)

[@darlalathan6143]

That's why it's an alienating cliche!

[@randomalienfrommars0567]

I spit all ovet my keyboard. Thanks.

[@RoyalGirl]

I love how bright she looks. Like she’s glowing, might be the Christmas glow.

[@JennaMoreci]

awww thank you!!!

[@superraegun2649]

Subverting a cliché; a mortal woman can’t decide between a male vampire and a male werewolf, so the vampire and the werewolf get together and she’s taken out of the equation.

[@MrAstrojensen]

LOL, I was thinking of exactly that the moment Jenna mentioned it.

[@mirjanbouma]

I'd read that book until it literally fell apart.

[@mohamstaz3618]

Or the woman realizes that both the werewolf and the vampire suck, and that she's really about as interesting as watching paint dry, so she decides to find Van Helsing and bone him instead.

[@thecourtjester2610]

Or, the woman is not interested in them and she tries to tell them that and she realizes that they are not the right people for her and she ends up with someone else instead.

[@superraegun2649]

Derpy PotatoFox why not both?

[@williamoliver146]

My favorite trope Is the protagonist and antagonist who are mortal rivals end up having to team up to defeat a greater evil or threat

[@stevettebobbie1314]

Usually the antagonist is the ultimate evil and the person that teams up with the protagonist is an anti-hero

[@EricMcNugget]

Omfg that trope is my reading kink

[@williamoliver146]

Stevette Bobbie it’s more like a megalomaniac antagonist, hell bent on taking over the world and the protagonist who normally is trying to stop him, team up to stop an event or evil character who is trying to destroy that world or at least the world that they both know and so the protagonist and antagonist both team up because the protagonist wants to protect the world and the antagonist can’t take over the world if it’s gone.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@stevettebobbie1314 Actually that is a pretty tired trope, leaned heavily into cliche territory back in the old days when Pinochio was still a dark story. There is no requirement of an antagonist to be some kind of ultimate evil in order to justify the hero being encourage to kill him/her/it... NOR is it required for a story to "feel" important on its own merits. Make a few remarkably questionable characters that are otherwise relatable even as antagonists, and you'll start to see your storycraft getting encouragement. I'm only a practical GM, and my Players love the antagonists created as relatable on some level BECAUSE they're more dangerous... more Charismatic... and more realistic than "evil for evil's sake"... another tired old cliche. Creating a villain that, save one critical flaw, could've been any one of us at the Table or even our own heroic PC's is engaging and interesting... There's still no qualms about crossing lines with the PC's purely for the sake of encouraging them to go ahead and kill the SoB's. At a slightly higher "quality" of antagonist, you can get some mileage (or just switch things up a bit) with a tragic villain, the kind that would easily be considered friend if not for some chance detail that put him on a collision course with the PC's... AND it can be entertaining as hell when they actually DO feel guilty about killing him. OF course, there's merit in producing a certain amount of "meh" content, both in writing and in games. Otherwise your own moments of brilliance don't stand out and get to shine... even (especially?) unexpectedly. AND for all it's shortcomings, Pinochio wasn't engaged in saving the world or defeating ultimate evil, but learning to "human properly" and then salvaging what he could from the mess he made of it... essentially being his own antagonist at some level. Nothing big or important about it... but people watch and rewatch it... The Princess Bride might've bombed at the Box Office, but to remake it now would be criminal... and as cliche as it leans, it has a satirical innocence that has grown a cult following of power to make a "reboot" near insane. AND again, no ultimate evils, no world saving... just a dickwad prince bent to start a war that would leave hundreds of dead peasantry in its wake... and a male hero, just trying to save his true love from the rotten bastard... not great importance... not even especially noteworthy in scope or scale... BUT all in all a charming "cute little story" done well. And there are lots of those... ;o)

[@stevettebobbie1314]

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 I was just saying that's usually how it is, not that I'm particularly a fan of it or not. I like to make my antagonists just as interesting, if not more than, the protagonists and make them right in some sense, rather than just evil for the sake of being evil. I like to avoid tropes that are overly used, but I do like antiheroes in the right circumstances if they're written well. It sounds like your passionate but also I already have thought about that kind of stuff and have the same opinions sooo yeah

[@PeanutStrawberry]

Is it a cliché to confuse tropes for clichés? xD

[@JennaMoreci]

LOL at this point, probably!

[@PeanutStrawberry]

OMG... The Cyborg Queen commented on my comment 😱😆

[@jascrandom9855]

YOU HAVE BEEN WITNESSED!!!

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

We stand at a sort of peculiar crux, there... I'd argue only about half as many are actively engaged in the "confusion", choosing to cut to the technical chase of a conversation rather than hammering out terminology and proposing to waste time like a grammar nazi. If you (for instance) don't know the difference between a regular claw hammer and a framing hammer, I'm also not going to bother correcting you... This IS (after all) only the YT peanut gallery. If you and I both know what you're talking about, a claw hammer can just be a claw hammer. AND if someone is complaining about my least favorite cliches, and I want to like and agree... I'm likely going to let them believe their tropes... Nazi-ing grammar or terminology should be reserved for corrections that are needed to clear what is actually being discussed... OR (for you international fans out there) a casual tid-bit should be otherwise suggested with a prefixial attachment of "it's only a technical detail but..." so you get the improvement in usage (benefit) without thinking you needed called out for unintelligible gibbering. Obnoxious can go both ways... BUT it's only partially as bad as it seems. ;o)

[@toppersundquist]

D: *holds skull together*

[@brianlewolfhunt]

Part of the trouble I have is "Is this actually a cliche or is it a trope that everyone calls a cliche?" or "Is this a cliche or a deliberate stylistic choice."

[@jenna.livingston]

I actually love it when stories have the damsel in distress be a man! But I like it even more when the female character uses her wit and other skills to rescue him rather than just brute force. I'm not saying women can't be warriors, because they totally can! It's just that I've read too many stories where the woman turns into a physical badass when she hasn't had the training to make it believable! There are other things a person can bring to the table than physical strength!!

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Done well means "not overkill AND no iron-Miking it"... Baddassery has many brands, and the quiet demure Miss Kitty of "Gunsmoke" lasted as long as the show did because she did Baddassery as well as any male there. Too many writers mistake violent, impulsive, and loud for "heroic" traits. AND they're not. Countless well written heroes were quiet, polite, and even patient to a fault. A hero with a sword is useless against a real dragon. ;o)

[@fatimasamira3695]

Exactly, I would like that.

[@WyntheRogue]

Could be my personal bias but could make her a rogue where it requires cunning,stealth and still have those.moments of badassery. Sure,we're stabby but also need to come up with strategies of infiltration,escape plans,check for potential traps and learn to pick various locks. With the right mentor at their disposal,it can work :P

[@IceQueen975]

Look man, all I know is my male proitagonist is about to get raped and his girlfriend, a skilled warrior like him, goes feral on his attacker and princess-style carries him away when it's all done cause he's in shock while gently calming him down *and I'm so in love with this couple aaaaa*

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@WyntheRogue Just a guess, but you might get it... In reference to my earlier remarks, Miss Kitty would theoretically class as a "Bard" technically and mechanically... AND in the "good ol' days" of hiding from the Satanic Panic, Bard's were technically started as a "kit" or subclass of Rogue. Just because she didn't get into a gunfight every other week as if to keep up with Matt Dillon, doesn't mean she wasn't every bit as vicious or courageous when the time required... She just wasn't as quick to resolve any silly thing with a cannon... maybe for the noise. Kinda hard to rogue properly when you're too deaf to hear the racket on a doomed stealth attempt. I'd be remiss not to point out she cleaned up the Long Branch Saloon so regularly a mess was of little serious personal concern... ;o)

[@Katlyn_Duncan]

OMG Buttercup at the beginning... she didn't love the dancing 😂😂😂

[@JennaMoreci]

"Stop dancing and throw my ball!!!"

[@Wolffang1996Hyano]

lol might have been the humming, too XD lol My black & white Tux cat Boo-Boo doesn't like it when I hum and she will cautiously trot over to me and nip at me when I'm humming XD

[@eva1777]

Butters sure ain't feeling the holiday cheer!

[@JennaMoreci]

LOL she wanted to play XD

[@pazhdiskova1030]

I can't stress this enough BUT: 99% of everything you can think of has already been written, we've been on this world way too long and tropes go all the way back to when ability to read was reserved for those in pure 1% top of society: damsel in distress, betrayed by family, the three sons and youngest one being the smartass that he always is... It's really just about how creative you are with the trope/idea you decided to visualise. Cinderella wears different shoes and has a different name to fit in bazillion countries that heard the story and more often than not modified it to fit their ethics/tradition and she still glows like a true princess in every one of them!

[@quartzintherough]

I think my favourite version of tropes is the deconstruction of a trope, because we can delve further into the trope and see how bizarre (at best) or terrifying (at worst) it would be. There are even tropes that were originally deconstructions (like the Sad Clown who was a deconstruction of the constantly joking character, which is easily in my top 10 of all tropes)

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

As a Player or Performer, I like fools. They often use their humor as a mask, the "depressed person's happy face" or "it's fine" when nothing is fine about it... Done well, they can layer a much deeper darkness brooding under that facade at the drop of an emotionally challenging hat. It's liberating when "the tropish Fool" Character gets to switch... to whatever horribly damaged thing he's hidden from the audience, Table, GM... the whole time. They're still unpredictable, since you only know A stark difference comes out of the Fool under pressure... not how much or what particular brand of it. Emotional scars? Physical traumas involved or just a byproduct of some other issue? Evil to the core or just violent and nasty enough to get the job done when the funny guy routine ain't cutting the mustard... It's like winding on an explosive Jack-in-the-box without knowing how much or what kind of explosive... until... Boom. Of course... obnoxious can go both directions here, too. I don't even insist on RP'ing "The Fool" all the time either. I prefer it when I'm inspired to a degree of wanting to do it well. ;o)

[@jeremiahbooth423]

You just reminded me of a character in one of my current works in progress. One of my main characters in the story I'm working on is more so a comedy relief character. He's funny, carefree and is overall nice to almost everyone he comes across. He even tries to calm down the main antagonist in one part where they attack the cast. There's a reason he's like this, however. He lives at home alone with his narcissistic mother, who constantly makes him feel like shit. It usually puts him in a bad mood but he tries to smile through his pain. He always makes sure to be nice to everyone else so they don't have to go through what he goes through everyday. Eventually at the climax of his character arc, he realises that in spite of his efforts, he himself still isn't a happy person. Upon realising this, he lashes out in anger at both the main protagonists and the antagonist.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

​@@jeremiahbooth423 One of my favorite "Fool-types" was a "dark-fool"... Through a bunch of our games (D&D) I bring the light and funny comical type... Not always a fool in the sense of stupid or clumsy, but and obvious extrovert... until something poignant enough lands... THEN it's off with the mask, and some horrible kind of monster comes out. As a GM with around 30 years experience, myself, truly remarkably DESPICABLE sons of bitches are kind of my bread and butter... so monsters are easy for me... and I do them to the hilt. Anyways, yours sounds interesting.,, depending on exactly what you define as "lashing out"... but of course, that's usually kind of the question of the genre. I wouldn't suggest explaining our antics in "Dark Sun" (for instance) to young children... I used to give friends in high school the willies, when they'd interrupt "Game Talk" at our table in the lunch room. ;o)

[@jeremiahbooth423]

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 The dark fool archetype sounds pretty cool. (Hey, that rhymed.) About my character, to explain how he lashes out, I should give you a little bit of context first or it might not make sense. I'm writing a sci fi story. It's primarily sci fi but it has some fantasy elements sprinkled in it. One of the characters in the main cast is a freaking dragon. Technology has advanced and in turn, laboratory experimentation has also evolved substantially. Now, scientists can play god and create their own animal hybrid abominations. That's what the scientists do in the story for the main antagonist. Earlier on in the story, they create a race of hostile mutant hybrids called GEMOTHs. Genetically Engineered Mutants Ordered To Hunt. Due to their success, they make a huge leap and see if they can transmit some of their traits into humans, altering their DNA and making them part mutant predators, killing everyone in sight that can't control them. That's where my character comes in. In one part, the main antagonist attacks the main cast and kidnaps the dragon character so he can take his blood for his master plan. The character, whose name is Jake, has grown attached to the dragon character in a previous scene and so he tries to stop the MA, but gets kidnapped himself in the process. The MA took him in the heat of the moment and didn't know what to do with him when he returned to the lab. Then he gets the idea to use Jake in his man mutant experiment as a test subject. While the other main characters try to rescue Jake, he strikes up a conversation with the other scientists to stall for time. Eventually during the conversation, he starts doubting himself as he remembers the treatment his mother gave him. Not long later, Jake gets injected with a serum the scientists used to make the GEMOTHs. They expected fast results but he didn't transform right away. At first, they thought there was something wrong with their serum and they would have to modify it and make a new version. So they tried to execute Jake so there would be no loose ends, tracking back to them and their inhumane experimentation. What they didn't realize was that the transformation only occurs when the subject is in an enraged state of mind. At this point, Jake has had enough of people walking over him and treating him like trash. He had plenty of reasons to be angry, too. Obviously, there's his mother, the MA slapped him across the face during the kidnap scene when he was just trying to calm him down. His friends, particularly the MC are kind of scumbags to him, also. He transforms into this powerful creature and attacks everyone in the building including the scientists, the MA, and even the main protagonists. Everyone struggles to survive as Jake's rage tears the laboratory apart. Everyone escapes but by the time Jake runs out of energy and transforms back to normal, the whole entire lab is destroyed.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@jeremiahbooth423 Then... it sounds (and don't take it the wrong way) a little like a scene out of "Kill La Kill" when Ryuko loses control of herself and "goes all out" mutating as she wrecks the entire arena... Only there, her best friend rushes in and takes a beating trying to talk her down before the over-work kills her outright... This is in a novel form, so I'd just be careful with your Character's "base persona"... People in real depression get angry a sort of different, "seething slow burn" kind of way... The energy (not a great word) holds them up a little bit, but then they usually crumple... What you're talking about in this scene, however, is an absolute rage... something more akin to a psychotic break. Not that someone with depression can't get to that emotional point outright, but it's really rare... especially with a depression based on abuse. Mostly they crumple into a suicidal state, and only get kinda violent in the effort to get someone else to "do the job"... It's excused off as "Because I'd probably screw that up too." If you make sure you steer this guy Jake, clean and well away from any mentions of depression... He can get sad or guilty about his anger... or have short term rages (probably even better) he can sulk... but not depression... then you have the makings of a perfect "Hulk-out" moment like that... and it's "buyable". Now, I'm only a Game Master, but over 30 years of producing wacky and mutating and total freak-show problems for the Players from a fair spread of walks of life, I've been lectured and corrected many times along the best lines to portray this or that "type" of mayhem worthy nefarious bastard... even "nefarious bastard moments". AND it's fair to let his friends presume (at least in part) that it had more to do with the Serum, not necessarily him, that got them into the collateral damage. Not trying to tell you how to do everything... Just my take on what I see, and where I'd go back and shore it up for it's "buyability" as I call it in-game. If someone can't immerse and engage totally in the trusted laws of your world-setting, they can't "buy" the scene. Just hoping to help. The "Kill La Kill" reference is something you might care to watch as you get time. The whole series isn't ridiculously long, and while the premise is laughable, it's a kind of surprisingly cute story. ;o)

[@sopita2236]

They have a square rectangle relationship All cliches are tropes but not all tropes are cliches, got it

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

You can also use Tropes as way to create an story, and then you can twist to your liking or according to your story's mood. For example; the Love Triangle. The two girls can ditch the guy and become best friends or the guy they are fighting for, already have a girlfriend.

[@IceQueen975]

...I never realized I wanted to see the latter option until you said it. SOMEONE WRITE IT!

[@CaffeineMolecule]

Or two guys are fighting over the girl but in the end, the guys fall in love each other in stead.

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

@@CaffeineMolecule It can go anywhere you want or depending of the story you want. + The guy decided to have enough of this romance quarrel nonsense, and leave the triangle. + Or all tree them die.

[@ihavelemonade5640]

Maybe they can all live happily ever after in a polyamorous relationship

[@ibrahimihsan2090]

Or the man just moving on and hanging out with his former bestie. Tom and Jerry had that. Or better, have the woman fall in love with a completely different guy. Or even worse, have the failure in the love triangle get depressed and commit suicide. That also happened in Tom and Jerry. Honestly, even cliches have had their diverse moments across history.

[@yeeeowwchh]

I just found your channel probably about a month ago, and I've already watched a huge huge HUGE majority of your videos! They are super helpful and inspiring and help me a lot with my few stories I'm currently writing. I enjoy to listen and binge-watch your videos while I draw the characters from my stories! Overall, I'm just really glad I found you lmao

[@JennaMoreci]

you are so sweet, thank you so much!

[@softnpure]

whoah even vocaloids write uwù

[@mrsiz218]

Fukase yes! Jenna rocks!

[@evermoreisamasterpiece]

Christmas: **exists** Butters: *NO*

[@thestevens580]

No Christmas and all play

[@Jemini4228]

One of my fave tropes is the 'character with deep affection for their friends/young charges that they hide behind a tough/callous/cynical personna'. Like 'Imma just sticking around for the money' *gives them their jacket* 'honestly I don't care' *shows them new skill* 'can't you see the depth of my apathy??' *jumps into a snake pit to save them*.

[@yunamchill9169]

I know, it's so adorable. But did you refer to a specific story with those examples?

[@Jemini4228]

Nah just random examples :)

[@TheTypewriterError]

If you're vomiting out cliches, please seek immediate advice from your Betas/Editors/Proofreaders before your condition worsens.

[@ardin1437]

Jenna: lots of readers have favorite tropes. Me, screaming at the top of my lungs, banging pots and pans together: GAY ENEMIES TO LOVERS!!!! GAY ENEMIES TO LOVERS!!!!

[@Nova-il8qe]

Yana Varnichenko STRAIGHT ENEMIES TO LOVERS!! STRAIGHT ENEMIES TO LOVERS!!! Toss some betrayal in that mix, and I’m sold.

[@LemonMoon]

* bangs pots but quieter Found family, found family..!

[@HisMajestyTheQween]

Who's that in your PFP? They're so cute!

[@pal8542]

Yana Varnichenko, any chance you're into Drarry?

[@BoredomBee]

AGREED.

[@HisMajestyTheQween]

Not sure how to call it, but one of my most hated cliches is when a character comes _sooo_ close to their goal but their dumb head decides to take their sweet time and bask in the moment until something happens and ruins everything Example: "Finally, I have reached The Thing! Now instead of simply taking The Thing, I will just stand here right in front of it and enjoy this moment for as long as possible! I could just grab The Thing and get this over with, but I want to do this very slowly and celebrate now instead of later! I will take my sweet, sweet time and take forever even though at any moment someone or something could all of a sudden come out of nowhere at the very last second and snatch The Thing right from under my nose!" **Someone or something suddenly comes out of nowhere at the very last second and snatches The Thing right from under their nose** "God damnit!"

[@davidglasspool4921]

That makes me think of when villains will monologue rather than just killing the protagonist.

[@ThrottleKitty]

"Look how festive it is!" **growls** Aww, butters shares my opinion on the holidays! :D

[@KileyKeeling]

I love watching Jenna as I wait for my plane to board lmaooo

[@JennaMoreci]

awww thank you!

[@martapenczek5165]

How about this solution to triangles: the person (girl?) realizes that neither is a valid choice? Maybe there is someone else? Or no one?

[@IceQueen975]

Girl: I've been through too much trauma a=from saving the world. I kinda wanna be on my own to heal for a while.I would DIE for that.

[@Yora21]

I am always a huge fan of stories where the protagonist realizes the goal of story was a dumb idea or no longer worth it and stops wasting energy pursuing it. So many problems of our lives are about not knowing what we really want and pursuing something that someone else tells us is desirable. Knowing when to say no or changing your mind is a big accomplishment.

[@starwave2790]

Maybe she falls for her female best friend

[@Holly865]

I discovered your channel like a week ago, and I’ve probably watched fifty or so videos. I’m only thirteen, but I’ve been writing for about five and a half years, and your videos have helped me so much! I just wanted to say thanks! :)

[@luisarenee9803]

I literally was just being confused on this and then this showed up! Jenna is a cyborg confirmed.

[@evermoreisamasterpiece]

I wish I could go back to sophomore year of English II and show my WHOLE FREAKING CLASS this video. My god, so many people get it wrong and it bothers me.

[@mossonthenorthside]

Is Butters a scrooge? Talk about a plot twist...

[@Skannerz]

*"THE BLACK DUDE DIES FIRST."* 🧐🤨🤔.... Hell, I think I'm gonna write a book called that.

[@banettenighmare8645]

Plot Twist: The White Guy dies first

[@Skannerz]

@@banettenighmare8645 🤣.... lol. That would throw everyone for a loop.

[@deadaccount2968]

@@Skannerz Bigger plot twist: The book is actually though the eyes of black Merlin who sees time in reverse. He dies at the end, making him the first to die chronologically.

[@banettenighmare8645]

Dead Account Or maybe, the title isn’t the cliche climax but it’s the line that the main character says to the white guy that dies. Like “The black dude dies first huh?” Then boom stabs the white guy because fuck cliches.

[@tidyheidi9143]

Have the story be something like Resident Evil 5 where it’s a zombie apocalypse or something happening in Africa and everyone is black.

[@kaitlyn.isntreal]

Trope straight doesn't even sound like a word anymore 😂

[@JamieIsJammed]

You knew I *had* to click the notification when I saw that Jenna is talking about one of the biggest debates I've ever been a part of since I started being more open with my writing.

[@BlueSpiritFire1]

"Make the damsel a man" I'm reminded of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Marvelous

[@Yora21]

"I thought your son was a daughter."

[@21melpomene]

Yes! Now I can show this to my grandma, who's supportive but hardly understands anything I try to explain to her about writing. XD Edutainment ftw!

[@toppersundquist]

I still love how the ads insert themselves into your videos. Jenna: "If you made the damsel in distress a man, that could potentially be-" Margaret Atwood: "Little Red Riding Hood."

[@lamberttictic3865]

I really love your videos and your sense of humor

[@JennaMoreci]

thank you so much!

[@isabelleh22552]

Such a great video!! Also I love your braids 😍😍

[@JennaMoreci]

awww thank you!!!

[@victoriaadaini]

And that’s how you caught me Jenna, I love a good forbidden romance 😂

[@xtraphilip]

I like the fact that your voice is sparkling in my ears making me to pay attention. I came across your channel as a was watching how to be a good story teller. U are definitely an ear pleaser my sister

[@marionetted.antoinette2139]

Yay! I love your videos, I've been so sick the past few days and couldn't work on my comics, so glad the Cyber queen uploaded!

[@JennaMoreci]

AWWW please feel better soon!

[@thesweetembraceofnonexiste3740]

The second I read the title I knew this would be my go-to link to send to people who always use the two as synonyms

[@leopagefiore]

9:08 Jenna: "I have a lot of queer friends who are dying for a love triangle." Me: (Waves hand!) "Yes, please!"

[@IceQueen975]

Would you accept one that is tragic and the other that ends well? Cause my series has it.

[@leopagefiore]

@@IceQueen975 I mean, it's your story to tell, and my general philosophy is to accept whatever end the author writes, so long as it's not sending a harmful message.

[@theneverlandfairy4832]

“I’m a writer I hate people” I love that shirt I want to get one soooo much! ❤️

[@iridiumSerpent]

cliche example: forbidden romance in the warriors series XD

[@ErinKinsella]

LOLOL the Butters intro XD Love it

[@JennaMoreci]

"Stop dancing, mama! Throw my ball!"

[@ErinKinsella]

@@JennaMoreci All the attention has to be for the Butters!

[@sofonisbasimetra8840]

The Kane Chronicles' love triangle end result made me distrust romance resolution in every book with a love triangle I have read since. subverted tropes have a major impact on the reader for sure. Also, Ron Stoppable is a subverted damsel in distress and now knowing this, I like the character even more haha.

[@laislyra5512]

The Kane Chronicles', YES that's what I was thinking all the time.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

What was it again? One guy was dying soon, the other was a god, then they became one?

[@adolphaselrah9506]

I was about to go to sleep but then I would miss Jenna’s wisdom.

[@bobbiefalin7074]

Hey Jenna, I feel that you might have mentioned that all genres have specific tropes. You can't have a murder mystery without a dead body, or a romance without two people, minimum. Sci-fi and fantasy have their tropes, specific to them, that readers expect. Or maybe that's a topic for another day... Keep up the great work. Also, I like the Butters T shirt. That would be cool.

[@StarwriterUlia]

My favourite trope is the one where the narrator, who is also the protagonist, isn't the character you should be worried about but is still someone you should root for because teamwork is fun!

[@Chockitkat]

I was never ever this early before and cannot be more early. Thanks for uploading!

[@remem95]

To the point you were making about Queer love triangles. The animated series "The Dragon Prince" has a healthy dose of diversity in many departments. I know its not a book but its worth checking out.

[@tomball8092]

remem95 while there are certainly queer people (the two queens, Runaan and his husband, and possibly Amaya and the fire elf lady); there is no love triangle unless you count the drooling fans

[@laislyra5512]

@@tomball8092 agreed, no love triangles Unless you consider Callum x Rayla x Claudia as a love triangle (I don't, Callum just moved on). The thing I like the most about this series is the development of the siblings Soren and Claudia. And I'm dying to see Amaya and fire elf getting together ahhh Which is a enemies to lovers trope XD

[@gricuriaentertainmentgamin8729]

First off Thank you for your videos, I found you about a week ago and have been watching all your back log of videos. You have helped me get passed a road block I had in my story, I had to make my outline better so I knew the points on the map better. I'll be joining your patreon soon, I have also started your skill share classes. Thank you for all the videos and helping me get better at what i love to do write

[@saltypen3139]

One of my favourite tropes is when this happen: one of the protagonists is the secret antagonist that pulls the strings,then the other protagonists get a bad ending

[@BoredomBee]

Knight saves a damsel in distress? The knight's a buff, mixed-race lesbian with an adoring wife and kids at home and the princess is an MtF trans-woman who's going to take over the rival kingdom that kidnapped her once she ascends the throne, and she's going to bring it and her own kingdom into the next golden age. They fall in platonic love and now they play chess together every Sunday. Knight's son is going to do everything he can to become a knight himself so he can become the bodyguard to the princess because he's fallen in romantic love with her. The forbidden love trope comes into play because he thinks he can't marry her because he's not royalty; he doesn't realize that the princess, who has, in turn, fallen in romantic love with him, is going to redefine the laws when she's queen.

[@mahdiyah-nurelijah-el8454]

Maybe butters is more of a Hanukkah kind of gal 😂

[@JennaMoreci]

She's a throw-my-ball kind of gal XD

[@yasminguimaraesmartinsvald8955]

"Look how festive it is! :D" *GRRRRRRR* "BUTTERS!"

[@MissHolliday3110]

Cliche book covers... for example, I was on Amazon and dang near all YA urban fantasy had either: person standing with their back to us, person in shadow/ silhouette, person peering through/ from behind something, person holding a weapon. I like Jenna's cover for TSP because it uses a symbol from the book. Those are the covers that stand out most to me and make me want to check them out.

[@makotoxchihiroyaoifangirl8409]

How about a surbversion of the classic love triangle with a girl and 2 guys where the 2 guys in the process of fighting for the girl's affection, the 2 guys fall in love with each other and the girl ends up with neither of them?

[@ClarkusMarkus]

If I'm understanding it correctly, I've always loved the found family trope but never knew what it was called. Stuff like Avatar: the Last Airbender or Star Wars where you have a group of people from different backgrounds who come together for a single cause and their friendship develops into being more like family. LOVE that. Or, if they're not always together, then instead it's having a few friends you know you can always call on for help when things get rough.

[@kerricaine]

i'm glad you pointed out the audience and cliche thing. i still remember my high school english class, my teacher explaining not to use cliched phrases, like "her eyes shone like diamonds" and the korean exchange students were all like "wow, that's so beautiful! why shouldn't you write that??"

[@Ghost_with_Bow]

Both boys in the trio goes missing and the female has to rescue them, like not one damsel in distress, but TWO. Throw in a HEALTHY romance and I'm all in.

[@pearlgirl5643]

Just discovered you and have been bingeing your videos all night!

[@joelbailey176]

I love this! Cliches make me eye roll whenever they crop up in books (and media). The only time I use cliches (at least on purpose) is when a character says something cliche, and I normally have them or someone else call them out for it for a little comedy

[@writingandself-publishingw4051]

Hitting the tropes is such an important part of achieving sustainable writing success. If you give readers the tropes they are expecting in a particular genre, your fans will love you for it. A core group of readers want very specific things in their genre fiction books. Make your readers happy.

[@JayRedding12_12]

"It was a dark and stormy night..."

[@thecourtjester2610]

What i want to see more of in stories: 1. Asexual character who is respected. 2. Villain that has a reason to be a villain and isn't "pure evil" 3. Reformed villain who is suffering but keeps trying to be better because they want to. 4. A character who has internal struggle but overcomes it (making them emotionally strong) 5. A girl who is not hot or into relationships (taking chare of herself first) 6. Less fan service.

[@davidglogowski42]

As always, an awesome wealth of information. Thanks for all your assistance and insights.

[@KatieMaddalena]

Trope subversion: "I'll be right back." *Actually comes back.

[@LevaStyles]

Luv this lady❤️. Thanks for ur knowledge but ur humor is what sets u apart!

[@matesafranka6110]

Crazy Ex Girlfriend did a triple subversion of the love triangle, where the main character Rebecca _thinks_ she's polyamorous, but then has a conversation with an actual polyamorous person, who tells her that no, it's just a love triangle -- and then it falls apart when both men dump her.

[@Yora21]

And then the two men get together.

[@altairdelirio]

having an awful memory and busy life = getting super excited and surprised when you realize jenna is uploading

[@Sunflowers2017]

Not sure how long I've been subscribed to you but I love your videos and they've been really helpful on what to do, not to do, how to do for my story.

[@dougputhoff]

But Jenna, you didn't say, "But Jenna."

[@92RKID]

Now that was a real plot twist right there! She got us with that one! :D

[@skurinski]

she's subverting clichés

[@ooooooooooOoooooooooh]

When newbie writers say, "I don't wanna write any tropes." I hear, "I don't wanna write a book."

[@williamreid6255]

If Jeremy from CinemaSins was narrating this video, he’d be saying “‘Jenna Moreci confuses the audience’ cliché” the entire time

[@helpyourselfimbusy5747]

This is why I love your videos. Funny and informative! 😊

[@darkwindsage]

Ads end at 1:34

[@Crowsong-Dark]

Great video, Jenna! Can you do a video of which is better to write a story in book or comic including pros and cons.

[@lionheart7762]

Never have I started a novel thinking "I'm not gonna include tropes." I just.... I just write.... I just write a good story.

[@guicaldo7164]

Tropers, unite! We have been called to let everyone know that TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life!

[@adolphaselrah9506]

Gui Caldo You will go down a deep hole that you can’t come out of. Each one will have like five other tropes you want to read. It will never end.

[@jeremiahbooth423]

Basically, all cliches are tropes, but not all tropes are cliches.

[@norahammen1275]

Best cliche subversion ever: in Wynonna Earp when Officer Haut got shot but was wearing a bullet proof vest :)

[@gemdumet3125]

Maybe my favorite trope can seem boring to some people but I just love a good bromance. I mean, two people of any gender combination that are so close to each other that people may think they are in a romantic relationship but they are not and they don't feel that way about each other. I just love friendship but I think it's not valued enough for the fanaticism of a cliché romance story

[@xtasch9595]

Also yet another clean-cut and helpful video. Thanks!

[@AddiRockART]

I’m sorry, but when the doggo growled at the beginning when you were singing, I laughed. My little dachshund does the same any time he hears “Holly Jolly Christmas.”

[@justincroft2299]

I've listened to your advice for too long now... It's time for me to finally....... Buy your book. ^^

[@mi-nie]

Jenna: sings Butters: *Grrrrrrrrrr*

[@Themi.]

Wow, that was so shocking that I had to release a breath that I didn't even know I was holding!

[@therealopaartist]

I love the childhood friend becomes love interest trope.

[@hali_55]

I’m a simple girl. I see Jenna, I drop my phone while scrambling to click.

[@jaisingz6117]

This really helped me

[@somerando1073]

But Jeeennnaaa... What do you think of using tropes/cliches as shorthand? As a specific example, a fantasy book that has elves rather than having mobblewhomps that after a few paragraphs of description basically turn out to be awfully similar to elves?

[@Yora21]

Calling things what they are is generally better than pretending that they are not.

[@bneisasmiler4942]

If there's a character. There's a trope!

[@adolphaselrah9506]

BnE Write a book with no characters! Unless the blank space is a character...

[@Shygiverqueen]

At first becoming a writer was easy but ITS NOT! I really need to learn more ...thank you for this writing tips it really helps me as a beginner Jenna ❤

[@TheSysanet]

Yaaasss. I 💯 pick up most novels that interest me based on the romance tropes they have. X'D Dying for a good polyamorous end to a love triangle.

[@Katlyn_Duncan]

I agree! It's not a bad thing to list them since a lot of readers will want to read the book because of them!

[@JennaMoreci]

Agreed with all of this!

[@jaisingz6117]

If this was posted 8 minutes ago then how is your comment two weeks old

[@JennaMoreci]

@@jaisingz6117 Like I mention in the video, patrons get to see all videos early :D

[@TheSysanet]

@@jaisingz6117 What Jenna said.

[@beans7166]

It's like squares and rectangles. A rectangle is a square, but a square isn't a rectangle. A cliche is a trope, but a trope isn't a cliche.

[@juice4132]

What's your take on fan fiction? Not the sex stuff, but telling a story in an already established world. For example, telling a story about the neighbor of Cinderella or something like that.

[@endlessdaybreak9365]

I love watching your videos!!

[@FinchesFables]

But Jennaaaa, how am I supposed to write my predictable, trashy romance novels without clichés?

[@andreagriffiths3512]

Xander James ah but that’s the thing: trashy clichéd romance novels do quite well. A lot of folk don’t much care if it isn’t groundbreaking and that’s the best bit. It’s a guilty pleasure and you’ll be fine as long as you put in all the milestones. Maybe switch it up a bit by setting it in a location that’s the least romantic you can find. Antarctica perhaps?

[@FinchesFables]

@@andreagriffiths3512 what about just between two garbage trucks outside a Wendys? 👀

[@MrAstrojensen]

@@FinchesFables That would actually be interesting, if done well.

[@mirjanbouma]

@@andreagriffiths3512 I think it's because of the function. Compare to food: dinner vs snacks. We don't expect a snack to fill and feed us the way a dinner does, because that's not why we're eating the snack.

[@katieg1524]

jenna: da da da-ing to the jingle bells tune butters: *growl” jenna: BUTTERSSS

[@lecciciapires2166]

I low-key hate that tropes and clichés are different things because, while the word cliché exists in my language, the word trope doesn’t. It’s just an entire subject that I can’t talk about in my own language.

[@thatjillgirl]

Even cliched tropes can work if done well, but it takes a skillful author to make them feel emotionally resonant rather than tired, and I think you definitely have to know that using a cliche what you're doing and lean into it.

[@sallie.]

When Jenna gives an original story idea and you think to yourself “omg that’s such a good idea” and then you don’t use that idea because it looks like you copied it from Jenna

[@Yora21]

No! This is what we call creativity! Your story would be completely different than her story. Ideas are cheap. All that matters is how you combine them in ways that nobody else has before, to create something that nobody has written yet.