Tropical Sidereal Debate - Vic DiCara & Richard Fidler

Richard gives a 10-minute presentation, Vic responds in 4 minutes, and Richard gives a concluding statement. Then Vic gives a 10-minute presentation, Richard responds in 4, and Vic gives a closing statement.
Vic's Website: vicdicara.com
You can get access to my readings there, as well as my books and classes on astrology and Vedic philosophy.

[@stephaniejane6788]

When I first discovered Vedic Astrology I was really shocked and upset by what I had began to understand, it took me almost 5 months to come to terms with what I had discovered and then a whole new beautiful world opened up before me. I have never looked back at western astrology and I have fully let go of the idea that I am a Scorpio😂 (it was heart breaking) Vedic Astrology is much much more accurate and there are just depths to it that I don’t even think one will fully get to uncovering in this life time there’s just so much there.. Great video, nice debate 👌🏻 Vedic for the win - Steph in Ireland 🇮🇪

[@bconni2]

both practices are relevant. but what i've noticed is people who lean more towards the Vedic system seem to be more closed off to considering the relevance of the Western .

[@daledheyalef]

The debate is between sidereal and tropical, not between Vedic and Western. Both sides in this debate are Vedic

[@aamesworld]

@@daledheyalef exactly idk what people are saying 😂

[@roflswamp6]

@@bconni2 as someone who comes from western but switched to vedic I agree it's a little easier to focus on one then to go back and forth

[@perfecto31]

same EXACT thing happened to me... what a _mindfuk_ ... I started tropical then went Vedic sidereal now Vic made some excellent points regarding tropical and now I'm beginning to wane like Chandra... lol

[@RaviSingh-vf3he]

A BIG SHOUTOUT TO BOTH OF YOU TO SIT AND DO THIS LIKE EDUCATED MEN. I JUST LOVED THE CONCEPT 💜

[@beenthereonce]

Nice to see a healthy, nontoxic debate on this matter.

[@AgrippaPetronius1903]

One of the most stimulating conversation on a subject we all love......can’t wait for the next brave soul who ventures into the virtual Alexandria, the domain of treasured wisdom

[@mcjc7807]

This has resulted in so much confusion over the years for me. Thank you for this debate.

[@perfecto31]

has this video helped you in making a decision which one to use?

[@seekrPiPhi]

Wonderful debate....thanks, appreciation and respect for both the learned participants.

[@kingofhearts3097]

This was really good. Vic made a lot of valid points. Very sensical would love to see KRS in a debate like this he seems to stand really firm in sidereal zodiac

[@kingofhearts3097]

Kr W lol him & Sam never ever give clear arguments

[@erickhchen3688]

I think Dr. Arjun Pai and Eve Mendoza use sidereal as well. Would love to see Vic discuss with Eve.

[@bhutchin1996]

Sanjay Rath!

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

Please invite and encourage ANY of these people to step forward as Richard did. I would welcome ANY and ALL of them.

[@FernandoRaulAstrology]

This has been one of your best videos. Richard Fidler looks like a very knowledgable astrologer and above all a gentleman.

[@SusanHopkinson]

As Vic alluded to, coincidence is not causality. I look forward to seeing more! 🙏🏻

[@qcasj]

That ended well. At least, their approach wasn’t so combative like previously. Healthy debates are welcomed. As long as both parties can maintain their respect for each other and not approach it from an egotistical standpoint, we should be able to make progress.

[@automationsolution]

I was eagerly waiting for this!

[@deavynlacy8465]

I find it interesting this boiled down to whether or not you view the 12 divisions as areas of space and therefore areas of life (houses) OR you view the 12 divisions as constellation based and therefore archetypes of life (signs). In this argument neither wins. This is because like medicine, astrology is a practice. Practices have fundamental principles regarded as truths with variances in their actual practice. This debacle mimics religious debates regarding a god’s or gods’ existence. There aren’t large groups of people founding their beliefs in faiths that don’t strike these same people as unwavering truths. “What we seek is what is seeking.”

[@ishanchavada9211]

The problem with vic dicara's underlying attempt is to find the True zodiac between tropical and sidereal. So ultimately one HAS to be wrong. In India both zodiac coexist as truths. We call them sayan and nirayan rashis. Like personal and impersonal aspects of parbrahman, Like active brahman vs passive brahman, Both are true simultaneously. But for predictive astrology we take sidereal zodiac because it was seen by rishies that the power of zodiac to influence everything comes not from any angle from equinox but from the nakshatras groups and the sublte worlds behind them. Zodiac sign is a fixed portion of the sky not movable equinoctial reference points. The power comes from far away stars, the forces works from them. The other problem with his argument is that he is treating surya sidhanta and srimad bhagvatam like srtutis as par as Vedas and Upanishads which are apaurushey not created by men but heard or received or seen by rishis from higher source. Surya siddhanta itself is written multiple times by men over long periodes and the latest surya siddhanta which itself is more than 2000 years old says that it is based on an old surya siddhanta. So it is not something infellible or unquestionable word of God. Everything has to be taken with right context not verbatim. It has some errors also from morden point of view. Like it says that ayanamsha (equinoxes) oscillates 27 degrees from 0 degrees ashwini both side. That is wrong because in reality it is just making round in whole zodiac belt. Also It is geocentric world view but the truth is heliocentric, Although I am not telling rishies were not aware of heliocentric truth. Yagnavalkaya has written a sloka on sun being center of solar system. But for jyotisha we have to take geocentric world view. The slokas vic is quoting are just statements for tropical zodiac. They are not definitions of The one and only true Zodiac but a sayan (tropical) zodiac. Because it is surya(sun) siddhanta it has discription of sayan rashis (tropical zodiac, determined by the position of equinox which is important for sun). Varaha mihira has told clearly that aries starts from 0 degree ashwini. Experience counts. The truth has to be tested not just stated. Like krishna consciousness has to be realized not just decribed. If sruti says brahman is impersonal and a bhakta experiences personal aspect of brahman we can't say you can not be right because so and so text says otherwise. Thousands of sidereal astrologers over millenniums has been very accurate in predictions. The fact that can not be neglected. Truth can be multiple, contradictory and simultaneous also. This is the mystery of this world. Hope vic dicara understands this one day.

[@iswara108enricochiarucci5]

It looks like a balanced , accademic wiew of the controversy. Thank you

[@iswara108enricochiarucci5]

By the way I use tropical:-)

[@iswara108enricochiarucci5]

I really loved Ishan Chavada your intervention

[@ishanchavada9211]

@@iswara108enricochiarucci5 You are welcome.

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

It is acceptable to look at one thing in two different ways - as is the case with saguna-nirguna bhraman. It is not acceptable to say that one thing is two different things. For example I can say, "sally is sweet, john is too sassy" and you can say "no sally is a little sassy, john is really sweet." That is acceptable. But for me to say, "John is Sally, 70% of the time" (which is exactly what is happening with trying to say the sidereal and tropical 12-fold zodiac co-exist) is just mind-boggling and logically unacceptable. The sidereal and tropical co-exist for sure in Indian astrology - but the tropical is a 12-fold division of the Sun's path, and the sidereal is a 27-fold division of the Moon's path. That is HOW they co-exist.

[@whitneywolf29]

EXCELLENT! Much gratitude to you Vic for setting this type of debate up on a very important topic. Healthy debates to find a clear direction is such a valuable tool and skill that has given guidance for ages. Thank you both for your gifts and courage to willingly share with all of us.

[@angelcatalan3914]

Bro this is lit 🔥 you should do a side by side series. One with actual arguments and the other where y’all fight in a cage match. Jk lol. That would be pretty cool though. I enjoyed this :)

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

I think Richard and even Eve would kick my ass in a physical fight.

[@readycharged]

So great! I have so many more questions...Here's to more debates like this and to hopefully separating more facts and logic from misunderstandings by digging deeper into these texts as well as honing our rational thinking. Thank you for organising this, Vic! Very stimulating.

[@roflswamp6]

This debate is amazing I'm so happy to see two people discuss each other's view point in a classy educated manner thank you guys for your input 🙏 and God bless you guys for setting an amazing example of how to be a good person.

[@reversefulfillment9189]

Great explanation about the two systems coming together 2000 years ago. Makes sense that at that time it would've made sense to combine them. I subbed to both channels.

[@YuyiLeal]

Oh my goodness, this is so interesting!

[@AlexJohnson-rk5qe]

I think you should have a debate with Joni Patry she made a video recently speaking out against Vedic Astrologers who use the tropical zodiac

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

sure. would be great. i have invited everyone.

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

btw can you give me a link to that video?

[@AlexJohnson-rk5qe]

Vic DiCara's Astrology yea sure kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5eZnnSnr5ZrjqM

[@shalini11100]

Excellent eye-opening debate.

[@yogabeeutiful]

As a novice I absorb data over time and especially presented with logic rather than poetic association I’m supposed to simply accept and retain. This format is really valuable for how my brain works. Your content catalog is so epic in that regard, I really appreciate the endless supply.

[@perfecto31]

so who won?

[@yogabeeutiful]

@@perfecto31 Vic probably has 50 videos in this theme, and the one that comes to mind that you should watch is called something like How to make astrology ugly. It’s the last in a series of 5 I think on the beauty of astrology. Best to you on your learning journey.

[@deavynlacy8465]

Brava

[@INNIMA]

Great debate guys!!!!

[@atlantean1209]

“We could pull up 5 tropical charts and show they work better in tropical” Ok so do it! Just saying you could isn’t convincing. The Nakshatras fitting the signs argument is one of the strongest.

[@anthonyb.7836]

No its not

[@atlantean1209]

Jesse H. Saunders if his birth info is accurate then yes I’d say you’re giving a solid counter argument. The problem with these celebrities is that we don’t know 100% that their data is accurate.

[@atlantean1209]

Jesse H. Saunders I see 👍🏻 what was Rogers’ moon sign?

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

This is exactly why this approach will not settle the argument. XD

[@atlantean1209]

Vic DiCara's Astrology I disagree. One system should definitely work better than the other. None of us really know mr. rogers, so at the end of the day it’s hard to make a definitive statement. His moon in Aquarius points to his humanitarian side and having community “the neighborhood”, so that could be a strong factor for sidereal. Among all aspects I’ve found the moon placement to be the easiest to differentiate between someone definitely being one sign vs. another.

[@proyc95]

I liked listening to this discussion; although it was intense, it was respectful and the arguments were so well justified. I liked the closing as well, nice to see a healthy discussion that tries to bring light on the subject matter rather than trying to decide ‘who won’ etc. I haven’t read any texts myself but Vic’s point, that being Vedic means reading the actual texts, just made sense to me. And I Look forward to the next video :)

[@aleadender1123]

Fantastic!!! I am in awe of both these gentlemen for structuring the debate, keeping it clean and informative. Both have won my respect... Namaste'

[@iswara108enricochiarucci5]

Interesting. But it was an unfair bebate, yes, the sideralist guy( he is very nice) is not a fanatic one. We want to see more arguments, if they have, and "fight" from sideralists Thanks Vic Prabhu:-)

[@cheryl01234]

Funny enough I used D9 on my tropical somehow the flavors of the Sidereal came out. I wonder if other people has any experience with this. Divisional charts is probably like the calculus of astrology.

[@RippleDrop.]

I respect all astrologers but the calmness of emotion and non-defensive posture of Vic Dicara on *such important topic" speaks volumes. The one who truly has gone deep into astrology and knows his knowledge is accurate, is not edgy while discussing it.

[@mn5499]

This was a really good debate and seems designed to be very informative to anyone studying the topic.

[@perfecto31]

so which won you gonna use?

[@mn5499]

@@perfecto31 Tropical, If what creates the signs is the movement of the sun then it makes logical sense to use the sun, instead of stars that don't create the signs.

[@tempestjuji]

This is it Vic! The thing I was waiting for is here.

[@ramanibharatam6549]

Vic Di Cara - What are your historical sources to claim that the 12 fold Babylonian zodiac was tropical and not sidereal? You cannot just drop a claim like that without some sources, particularly as it would end your argument very quickly. Please provide this as it is the nature of true scholarly debate to provide references.

[@maxredux3082]

This is a great point. Most scholars feel it was a 12 sign sidereal zodiac they were using, and Vic just drops this like it is some well known fact or something that it was actually tropical. Would really love to see your sources on this Vic.

[@fomalhauto]

It wasn't tropical. This is about the sidereally norming of the zodiac without recognizing precession. The Heavenly Writing: Divination, Horoscopy, and Astronomy in Mesopotamian Culture by Francesca Rochberg page 132 The Babylonian zodiac was not counted from the vernal point, but was generally normed by the end points of zodiacal constellations, each one counted from 0 degrees to 30 degrees. This implies an ecliptic of 360 degrees, but Babylonian astronomy employed degrees within signs rather than a strictly numerical count of longitudes from 0 to 360. Also, the longitudes assigned to the fixed stars were done so arbitrarily, with the result that the zero point of the ecliptic did not coincide with the vernal equinox. That the Babylonian zodiac was sidereally fixed implies that regardless of date the fixed stars do not change their positions (degree of longitude) with respect o the norming point of the ecliptic. The zodiac and the year were defined sidereally, so that one year was the time in which the sun returned to the same position with respect to a fixed star. The year that was counted from vernal equinox to vernal equinox, known as the tropical year, was not yet distinguished by the Babylonians from the sidereal year. To have done so would have been to recognize the fact that the equinoxes move - the precession of the equinoxes - and this has been ruled out for Babylonian astronomy. In mathematical astronomical texts, the equinoxes and solstices were also normed sidereally, at 10 degrees Aries in System A and 8 degrees Aries in System B. That the cardinal points of the year do not correspond to the zero points of the appropriate signs in the Babylonian zodiac is a result of the sidereal (rather than the tropical) construction of the zodiac. The two systems of Babylonian mathematical astronomy maintained the two norming points throughout the period of their use. As Negeubauer pointed out, neither the chronological relation between System A and B norms nor the reason for their difference is understood. That both vernal-point longitudes remained sidereally fixed, however, proves precession was not recognized. The counting of the zodiac signs from Aries is a consequence of the origins of the zodiacal signs in the association between zodiacal constellations and the twelve schematic months of the year. Although the original list of stars in the "path of the moon" began at the end of Aries, specifically with the Pleiades (choosing an exemplary star with longitude 33'40 degrees), the zodiac, when it is enumerated in texts, begin with Aries. More precisely, however, we still cannot establish the star that originally served as the norming point for the ecliptic. Even were we to assume the vernal point was determined correctly when it was assigned to 10 degrees then 8 degrees Aries, the corresponding dates for these zodiacal norming points cannot be pinpointed, as we do not sufficiently understand the ancient methods used to obain those values. Comparison against modern values for the longitudes of equinoxes is therefore uninformative of this purpose.

[@erickhchen3688]

Hope you invite Eve Mendoza to discuss about this

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

I have invited everyone. Please pass this on to her.

[@erickhchen3688]

Looking forward to it, gain a lot knowledge and peace from your last interview with Eve. Thank you.

[@YuyiLeal]

Vic, I love how calm and composed you are :) ... a peaceful samurai :). Great presentation! Bravo!

[@astrozoo]

The real issue is not which zodiac is right, but what are the merits of each and how to best use them. People forget that the house system is also a zodiac: the zodiac of 24 hours. But how do you use it?

[@KevinLopez-rl6wq]

Vic, I use tropical astrology and while I do think it is a good point for a Vedic astrologer to pay attention to what the Puranas are saying, isn’t it also true that Puranas are not decisive in this matter because Puranas are smrti not shruti?

[@automationsolution]

I am inclined towards tropical zodiac but the accuracy and personal experience with all the past mahadashas and lately the current ketu mahadasha forces me to look into the vedic astrology system and the nakshatras. I have stopped looking into my sun sign chart given how accurate the ascendant chart predictions are. I think I heard it from Ronald Berger that sidereal sky represents the real sky positions.

[@RippleDrop.]

Vic uses the Zodiac tropical but nakshatras sidereal. I at least can see how individuals vary in time as nakshatras move through the 12 signs of the Zodiac.

[@magstheasceticzeta8766]

I have an epiphany; there is intrinsic meaning of the stars (nakshatras) that would better left out related without the equinoxes that is where they begin exactly but where they behind the signs (rasi) at birth. I think that meaning means to be additional to the Tropical as a meaningful tool for better prediction. I don’t know whether that makes sense but astrological points are clear but there are problems with dealing living beings who may have incomplete information or missing information such as accounts of people’s life experiences, birth times or even dates of birth.

[@jkburns6566]

Leaning more and more towards Sidereal. I think Richard has really convinced me. Sidereal- Stars are real... Maybe what you think is tropical is just the physical world we live in. But we are all looking for the stars...

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

the sun is also real, and its relationship to the equator is also real. You are leaning wherever your feelings push you.

[@jkburns6566]

@@VicDiCaraAstrology ​ @Vic DiCara's Astrology I can imagine that it's true that what we think rotates closer can be true. But everything that happens seems to come from above. It's deeper. I think even the videos you do of Sid vs Trop. Sidereal still rings true to the person. More than the Tropical. I have tried for years to follow your system along with Ryan and Ernst. And paid for consultations. BUT I still feel Sidereal is real. I have my Atmakaraka in Jupiter and Amatyakaraka in Mercury in Sid showing writing as a career. Something I never thought I wanted to do. Though I was always good at it. Now at the age of 40, I am a writer and just published my first book. Garbage Wars. And I have been approached by warner designs about making a TV series for kids. In Tropical AT and AMA are Saturn and Sun. I just don't see the connection, Vic. I really think Richard is right. Going by charts and so on.

[@VanezArt]

@@jkburns6566 yes. stick to your gut feeling and intuition. I’ve yet to experience a case where they turned out wrong.

[@atlantean1209]

Here’s how you solve this: choose a random person who’s never had a reading. Have each astrologer do a quick reading. At the end, the person says which reading was more accurate. Repeat.

[@czd55]

Atlantean120 Brilliant!!!!

[@danyshudler9090]

It mostly speaks to their ability as an astrologer. There might be technique that work better or worse depending on who is using it. You can give me the best paint brush ever created but Picasso will paint better than me using his finger and I can have the best basketball ever created but I can’t shoot as well as an NBA star... I can find a sidereal and a tropical astrologer that will do both a better and a worse job than me on reading a chart hence your argument that whoever reads a chart better must be using the correct zodiac is false. Namaste!

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

Here is how you DONT solve it at all. All this will demonstrate is how much one person like and bonds and connects with another.

[@atlantean1209]

Vic DiCara's Astrology that’s ridiculous. Even just having each astrologer describe the persons moon sign is enough to show the temperament. It has nothing to do with resonating with an astrologer or not, it’s the information that matters.

[@danyshudler9090]

@@atlantean1209 Sorry, but Vic is right on this one. It will only demonstrate one is a better astrologer for that particular person.

[@DanielMartins-og2gj]

Tropical is the LOCAL Ecliptic everyone experiences and Sidereal is the star system constellation in the firmament (NASA lies with lesser magic)... Tropical is local Ecliptic.

[@speedygonzales9599]

The problem here, is that there is a third point of view, proving that neither of you is in fact wrong. What is being revealed in time is the foundation of this hidden perspective on the phenomenal experience. The question you need to ask yourselves is; when is it appropriate to use one or the other? How does this relate to the common theme throughout all history of religious text? Of course, the nagging question needs to be settled; you see, the scriptural writers, whilst being highly evolved, were none the less human. You can romanticise all you like about the Veda's and its characters, what's more important is the esoteric message. I would like to say, its no coincidence that we have both systems; this argument of either-or, one is right the other wrong is, to put it bluntly, silly. There is something far greater being played out here that the ego needs being put aside, along with all you have invested in such an argument or debate. I would like to elaborate, but this is hardly the forum for it. You're both intelligent men with whom I have spoken with at one stage or another, and I'm certain you can understand at what is being inferred here ;)

[@VanezArt]

Tropical is for earthen matters and sidereal is for higher soul’s purpose. It’s that easy.

[@kingofhearts3097]

The best argument 27:00 i have a question tho Vic. Sense the Nakshatras are constellations how or why are the nakshatras are of equal size 13 degrees 20 min. when the star size vary & where’s the starting point for that? I hear ppl say yoga tara but i dont kno what that is. Hope u see this question 🙏

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

Thank you for watching David! Exactly how the 12 moons divide the Sun's orbit over a year, 27 sunrises divide the Moon's orbit throguh over a month. Exactly how the space traversed by the Sun during each moon is 30º, the space traversed by the Moon between each sunrise is 13º20'. This is why we have 27 nakshatras of 13º20' each. Basically, each of these 27 fields contains a constellation of stars, called "yoga-tāra" which basically means "anchoring star(s)."

[@kingofhearts3097]

Vic DiCara's Astrology thnx Vic but im not David lol i need to change my name everyone thinks im the leo king lol

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

Aha!

[@pakoti96]

Here are a few points on the debate itself and both of your arguments: For one chart interpretation shouldn't be dismissed with a light hand. Lets respect Malu's lesson and test hypotheses against reality. The "definition" in Surya Siddhanta is clear indeed. However it is not clear if it is a *definition* or an observation that was valid only at the time of writing and intended to give general directions. I would love for this discussion to continue and address these points. You have certainly got the right attitude for finding the Truth. I suggest you keep an index somewhere with arguments for and against each zodiac system, so that no argument is left unattended to. Ultimately the goal is to reach a consensus and one theory that works with all cases. Currently both sides' seem incomplete. The big step in front of us is to reconcile either 1) The Sun and Moon cycles and equinoxes with Sidereal; or 2) The Constellations and space behind them with Tropical.

[@kalaklah4848]

I'm new to Astrology but from what I gather from the comments I've read is that Sidereal seems to give better predictions and is more involved thus is more comprehensive my logic? Can anyone tell me about their experiences of both systems?

[@roflswamp6]

Yes in my personal experience with both I side with sidereal and get more results with it over western

[@HCEndgame]

Am I missing something or is the fact that sidereal is more accurate in terms of actual star positions definitely makes it superior?! Not buying the 'it's just divisions, stars/constellations are secondary' argument - way too much importance is given to individual stars. There's also an argument to be made that the word nakshatra contains 'tara' as its second derivative. I'm Indian and have learned a bit of Sanskrit and it certainly makes sense to me. From my point of view, accuracy in terms of actual poisitions is non-negotiable here.

[@astrodivediko2342]

Two intelligent and educated astrologers debate.

[@andrejrubinic3082]

I agree with you guys that we should have a scientific approach to the astrology. But as astrologers we should understand that native approach to the astrology is different due to personally planetary combinations. A person with X planetary influences could prefer to apply techniques on hundreds of charts and verify astrology according to result, while person with Y planetary influence could use traditional approach and not step aside from it even when it doesn't work in practice. As astrologers we are in kind of difficult position. Often we analize charts of the people but we are lacking a basic scientific evidence of birth certificate of history figures. A precise time and place of birth and evidence of it is mandatory if we want to continue with astrology in a scientific way. After that, a calculation of planetary positions comes in place. Here we have many theories and approaches and distinction today reality exist. This distinction existed even before mr. DiCara and other astrologers placed accent on it. Now, even if we settle and find decent agreement on ayanamsa among the astrologers, even bigger challenge await us: the interpretation of birth chart and I can bet that here we will also have many different opinions and approaches. I can see that people today are interested in astrology and there are many great researchers who spent decades in diligent research using very smart methods. But... we are scattered around. There are too many research organization, too many individul researchers and often we see that when a person stop with his work, slowly his research is forgotten or not used further for the development of the society. I think this is tragic and we shouldn't let the life work of any person go in vain. We would need an organization to gather all astrologers together, organization which would establish principles and methods for further scientific research and systematically publish them in one place. So if we want to approach to astrology in a scientific way, major challenges we have to agree upon are 1) scientific evidence of time and place of birth in a birth certificate 2) ayanamsa or how to calculate sky 3) interpretation of chart (meaning of signs, houses, techniques etc) 4) Building a previously mentioned organization. Specifically for this debate, I could suggest to focus on natal charts where a planet in one chart debilitated, while in other chart positively placed. We all know that there is a shift in zodiac, tropical goes little in front and often we can see that in sidereal for example Sun is in Libra (debilitated) while in tropical in Scorpio. Or in sidereal Mercury is in Aquarius while in tropical in Pisces (debilitated). Dasha or transit of a planet might give drastically different result in these scenario and we could verify which ayanamsa is closer to real experience of a native. And secondly, for chart analysis, I can suggest the chart of Nikola Tesla. 1) His life was extremely rich with events 2) It is well documented by biographers 3) Time of birth is relatively correct (sharp midnight and Tesla personally mentioned this in a letter to one of his friends). Some of events to analize are: death of a brother, gambling addiction in student days, revelation of alternating current motor (amazing event!), movement to America, giving lectures in universities, fire in his lab where all of his work was destroyed, unsuccessful and successful partnerships, discovery of the wireless, experiments in Colorado, building of Wardenclyfe tower, destruction of a tower by dynamite, living in hotels, etc etc)

[@perfecto31]

You watched this video.. they both put up great information... Who won? Have you changed your mind? the purpose of debate to settle on an argument

[@fomalhauto]

From page 106 to 108 History of the Zodiac by Robert Powell With respect to the question as to why the zodiacal belt of Normal Stars was divided into twelve signs, each 30 degrees long, van der Waerden in his early article 'History of the Zodiac' writes 'There are twelve signs, because there are twelve months in the schematic year of MUL.APIN...The signs were made of equal length in order to get months of equal duration; they were divided in 30 degrees each because of the schematical months were supposed to contain 30 days each.' In other words, in the early fifth century BC when the division of the zodiacal belt of Normal Stars into twelve signs was originally formulated, there already existed a schematic calendar devised earlier by Babylonian astronomers, known from the text MUL.APIN. The text of MUL.APIN consists of two tablets dated around 687 BC in which are listed, among many other things, the rising of stars and constellations in terms of schematic year of twelve months each 30 days long. This is a 'schematic year', because the actual civil calendar in Babylon operated with lunar months, which fluctuate in length, being either 29 or 30 days long, and in an inter-calculation year (roughly every third year) there were thirteen instead of twelve lunar months. The Mul.APIN calendar scheme thus represented an idealized year: the ideal of a solar calendar rather than the actual year of twelve (or thirteen) variable length lunar months. With this scheme already in existence, the originator of the system of zodiacal signs was influenced by it in such a way as to specify a twelve-fold division of the zodiacal belt into signs, each sign consisting of 30 degrees, each month consisting of 30 days. Once the idea of this division of the zodiacal belt, analogous to the schematic division of the year, had been formulated, it was simply a matter of defining where the signs should lie in relation to the Normal Stars comprising the zodiacal belt.

[@fomalhauto]

Evidently the Babylonian sidereal zodiac originated in the fifth century BC. It was devised as an alternative system to that of the Normal Stars belonging to the zodiacal belt. The division of the zodiacal belt into twelve signs each 30 degrees long was analogous to the schematic division of the year into twelve months, each 30 days long, formulated in the text MUL.APIN around 687 BC. The relationship between the Normal Stars belonging to the zodiacal belt and the division into zodiacal signs was specified by the adoption of the Aldebaran-Antares axis as the fiducial axis for the Babylonian zodiac, with Aldebaran at the middle of the sign Taurus and Antares at the middle of the sign of Scorpio. Once adopted as the primary reference for the new system of the twelve signs of the zodiac, the longitudes of the remaining Normal stars were defined in terms of sign and degree in the Babylonian zodiac by determining their distances from the Aldebaran-Antares axis. The relationship between Normal Stars and the Babylonian zodiac was recorded in a star catalogue, thus constituting the definition of the Babylonian zodiac. In this way the transition from the system of Normal Stars to the system of zodiacal signs was accomplished, and herein lies the origin of the Babylonian zodiac. This intrinsic definition of the sidereal zodiac enables it to be reconstructed exactly (Appendix I). The resulting reconstruction of the sidereal zodiac is in exact agreement with the result determined by Huber for the Babylonian definition of the zodiac, confirming the validity of this intrinsic definition of the sidereal zodiac. It is also in conformity with the statement of Cleomedes quoted above who evidently inherited the Babylonian definition. The reconstructed Babylonian star catalogue in Appendix I gives latitudes and longitudes of the 32 Normal Stars together with the latitudes and longitudes of all identifiable stars in Ptolemy's catalogue. The longitudes listed in this reconstruction, defined such that Aldebaran is located at 15 degrees Taurus and Antares at 15 degrees Scorpio, are sidereal, i.e. independent of the location of the vernal point. From this modern reconstruction of the Babylonian sidereal zodiac the relationship between Normal Stars and the zodiac is apparent, e.g. Spica at 29 degrees Virgo marks the closing degree of the sign of Virgo, etc.

[@fomalhauto]

I disagree with the Aldebaran/Antares axis being used to fix the Sidereal zodiac on. There isn't any proof what fiducial stars that the Babylonians used.

[@SusanHopkinson]

Brilliant. The case for Tropical is very strong.

[@EL14411]

AMAZING!

[@sivaram3555]

Hey! You’re using 359.0167 days dasha year right? If I’m not mistaken. Also I really do wanted to watch debate on dasha yr length xd.

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

yes. i am not 100% sure it is the best option, but it is what I work with.

[@MorusAlba1975]

Personal Vaishnava evidence proving tropical is more reliable: From the sidereal perspective I have 10th lord Venus in the 9th and 9th lord Mars exalted. Yes, like in the birth chart of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And indeed, I joined ISKCON during my Venus mahadasha, at age 18. A very young and enthousiastic bhakta. Astrologers told me I'd be even more religious during my Mars mahadasha later in life. And you know, I've got ascendant lord Sun closely conjunct Jupiter in Pisces in the 8th, and Moon in the 1st, so I imaged myself becoming another Yogananda Paramahamsa or something like that. But guess what? Absolutely nothing happened throughout my Mars dasha (I'm nearing the end this year). Just me living a secluded life in the country, much of the time unemployed. The tropical picture? Yes, a powerful 9th house, and yes, a 9th house related Venus, because Venus in Taurus in the 9th, but Mars not exalted anymore, and not a yogakaraka (instead ruling 3 and 8). And what about the 10th house? No longer ruled by Venus in the 9th but by a debilitated Mercury in the 7th (Mercury no longer being in parivartana yoga with Saturn). Depressing, but that's what my professional life has been: unimpressive. Same for my married life. It's a hard pill to swallow, because I'm currently unemployed and don't have a glorious, spiritual career to look forward to, but I have to admit: tropical is correct! (And yes, 8th house is still powerful, but now because of exalted Sun there, still conjunct Jupiter.)

[@YuyiLeal]

Why 12, then?...that was a very convincing point for me! It's the sun that makes it 12.

[@fomalhauto]

Babylonian Astrologers devised 12 sign zodiac to go with their schematic 12 month calendar. Robert Powell writes about it in his book, The History of the Zodiac.

[@riotingmangos9288]

So the next question to answer astrologically is: why do some intelligent brains synch with sidereal and some with tropical so tightly?

[@danyshudler9090]

I think that every astrologer, regardless of their initial feeling or understanding of anything they read or hear must test things for themselves and even then keep an open mind because only time will tell. I love a healthy debate but quite frankly it’s not super important. Try the techniques you use as an astrologer on both systems and keep using that which has the best results. Learned a new technique? Try it again on both systems with say a 100 charts (the more the better) with accurate birth data; did the new technique worked better with the system you already had been using? Great! If it does not then work it with the other one, maybe you will find it does not work at all. Point is don't be closed minded and the chart will speak to you. Never be absolutely sure you are right, that’s an illusion.

[@intellectualwanderer]

Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn don't have our Season that is Tropical Zodiac. Only Rahu and Ketu do because they are shadows of the Earth by Mean Mode. Tropical Zodiac is based on Seasons with represent the material realm of life. Sidereal Zodiac is based on Stars with represent the cosmic realm of life.

[@imaginationland474]

I think chart reading comparisons is the clear answer. Like in Richard's example where he clearly used the Sun, Ascendant Lord and Moon to make absolutely basic interpretations that any astrologer could see. Since the Sun, Ascendant, and Moon are largely considered to be the most important factors in defining a person's life, those factors can take prescient over the other factors you might point out. Anyway, I would love to see Vic do sidereal and tropical chart comparisons and show examples of how tropical can work better. Even if Vic doesn't think it's the best method I think something like that would be convincing for a lot of us. Like Richard said the proof is in the pudding there IMO. Interpreting charts doesn't have to be a big, nuanced thing. It can be quite straightforward if you know the method.

[@shailendrachoudhary5453]

Well the concept of nakshtra and lagna gandanta comes from the junction of water and fire sign. In parashara hora shastra it is said that Lagna gandanta occurs at first half ghatis of Cancer and Leo, Scorpio and saggitarius, Pieces and Aries. Also, he mentioned that nakshtras gandantas are first and later 2ghatis of revati-ashwini, ashlesha-magha, and jyestha -mool. As per these dictums it seems obvious that gandanta occurred at fire and water signs, also at only in these nakshtras. So it's seems quite obvious that these nakshatra falls in respective signs only.

[@jessie1090]

I enjoyed the format of the debate, both parties made interesting points. I've heard from another Vedic astrologer that tropical and sidereal astrology was aligned in the same signs/ degrees 2,000 years ago. The wobble from the earth's axis changed the sign's points and that's why there is a 24 degree difference with Tropical and Sidereal astrology today. I'm curious as to both Vic and Richard's viewpoint on that.

[@bryanvazquez9913]

There's no viewpoint on this, it is just basic astronomy.

[@jessie1090]

@@@bryanvazquez9913 : axial precession has changed the tilt of the earth in relation to the stars. Its change in rotation arguably changes the degree of an astrological sign in relationship to earth.This could be a source of debate. A debate as to whether the sign and degrees are more accurate with Tropical or with SIdereal calculations. The calculations are 24 degrees different changing many people's sun, moon, and rising signs. Since Vic and Richard were both gentlemen in their debate, I would like to hear their perspective on the matter.

[@bryanvazquez9913]

Yeah, once again astronomy has you covered here if you know how it works. But don't take my word for it, just listen to Vic - he likes to make up things like the Babylonians using a 12 sign tropical zodiac which has no basis in any historical or scholarly research on this subject. I'm sure he'll find some way to say something to make it look like he knows what he is talking about no matter what you ask him.

[@kalaklah4848]

so is Vedic Ketu and Tropical Rahu?

[@I.P.Freely-eg8hf]

So how do you calculate a divisional chart your way Vic?

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

The exact way the classic texts say to. I have many videos about this, for example: kzbin.infowOeJCssWSt8?feature=share

[@bodhi963]

is a strange debate; ie, it has a argumentive style; yet, is hard to discern who is arguing for what.

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

I think its very clear that he is arguing that the zodiac should use sidereal anchors and I am arguing that it should use tropical

[@czd55]

Loved the conversation guys. I really appreciate the respect you both showed each other. Vic I have to say I agree with Richard's point regarding the examination of charts as a way to verify one system over the other. Perhaps this can be done on a very basic level? For example, calculate the sidereal and tropical charts of 20 exceptional athletes and just look at their Mars placement. Take Michael Jordan for example. His Mars in the tropical calculation is in Leo. His mars in the sidereal calculation is Cancer. Tropical makes WAY more sense to me in this example. Too simple? Perhaps. But I think there may be something here worth exploring. I would love to see other examples of prominent people's placements to validate/invalidate this point.

[@atlantean1209]

czd55 I’ve found sidereal to be more accurate with fighters. Most have moon in Aries or Scorpio or Aries ascendants.

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

I don't believe this resolves the issue, but I will do it soon anyway.

[@czd55]

I appreciate that Vic. I know it sounds silly but the Michael Jordan example I mentioned above really made a strong argument for the tropical system for me. I am very much a beginner in my understanding of astrology as you can tell. I tried the Sidereal route for a bit and my Mars placement/description just didn't sit well with me (Mars in Cancer). After watching several of your videos I ran my chart using the Tropical methodology and after doing so my Mars placement made a lot more sense to me (Mars in Leo). I later found that this same situation applied to Michael Jordan, which further solidified the argument for Tropical in my mind. Arguably one of the greatest athletes of all time with a debilitated Mars in the Rasi chart? That just didn't make sense to me at all. I realize there are thousands of variables that go into interpreting a chart but if you can't get a basic vibe of a person from looking at their Rasi chart it kind of weakens the validity of astrology in general in my opinion. I struggle to accept that Michael Jordan can have a debilitated Mars in his Rasi chart. Are you suggesting that may be this could be the case with other exceptional athletes given other factors going on in their chart? Not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely interested in learning more (particularly in respect to the Rasi weighting vs the other Vargas).

[@synesthetica]

@@czd55 You will be surprised to find Mars in Cancer (tropical) in charts of many athletes. And you'll also find Mars in Capricorn often. Mars in Cancer especially for non-contact sports. We shouldn't think about Mars in Cancer being weak (!). In Jordan's case Mars in Leo is more proper, though. Novak Djokovic for example has Mars in Cancer. Zinedine Zidane has Mars in Cancer (both, tropical and sidereal and conjunct Ketu within a degree (!)). In Zidane's case it's even a contact sport. So far I've seen Mars in Cap and Cancer as the most common in charts of great athletes along with Mars in fire signs in general. Just my 2 cents.

[@czd55]

Rok Koritnik , I very much appreciate this, thank you!

[@astrozoo]

Though Hitler was a warmonger, he was a failed military leader. The more involved in the war, the worst the German army did. His military decisions were terrible and disastrous. Germany lost the war and lay in ruins. Ironically, he also represented sensuousness and artistry, as an aspiring painter and a lover of opera.

[@lisajay3860]

WOW! Vic made a lot of valid points very well verbally AND visually explained, i have respect for both but Vic’s argument is way stronger.

[@geoffreyah]

The problem with this debate is the chart examples used are way to simplistic using only a single planet to explain a personality with the signs of the zodiac. When I do a chart especially a pathological chart like Hitler's chat. I interpret all the signs in all the planets, all the aspects and houses as well as the elements. This kind of complexity insures one can differentiate between the two systems of the zodiac tropical and Sidereal. How many cardinal planets in the horoscope determine the individuals energy level. For example a lot of cardinal represents a lot of energy and stamina and one or zero cardinal planets or lack of cardinal means low energy. Lundsted 1980. I only have one planet in the cardinal signs, 4-23-1963 and I have a low energy level and not a lot of stamina, but. in the sidereal system I have five planets in the cardinal system which is not me. Everyone I know who has four or five planets in the cardinal signs in the tropical system has way more energy than me. Consequently, I have to conclude that the sidereal system is off or wrong. I would have sun in Aries in the sidereal system which is wrong. I clearly my whole life behaved like a Taurus and that is not going to change. The tropical system is more accurate.

[@VicDiCaraAstrology]

This complexity is really why chart analysis is not the way to resolve the issue. The way to resolve the issue is simply understanding the fundamentals of astrological astronomy

[@geoffreyah]

@@VicDiCaraAstrology I absolutely agree. According to astronomy, Sidereal astrology is affected by precession, the wobble of Earth axis over 26,000 years so so the Sun at the first point or Aries ingres is now in the sign Pisces, but it was in Aries 2,000 years ago. This is an argument used by astronomers to try to invalidate astrology. They say everyone is really a sign behind. I am a Taurus so I should be really an Aries since the Sun has precessed into Pisces since that time. Tropical astrology is not affected by precession because the 12 signs of the zodiac begin at the spring equinox or Aries ingress so the Sign Aires is always begins at the spring equinox no matter what constellation is at the spring point. 4000 years from the spring point will be in the constellation of Capricorn, in Sidereal astrology, but in Tropical the spring point, the exact time the days and nights become equal, will always begin in Aries. This is the difference between the signs which tropical astrology uses and Constellations which Sidereal astrology uses. Consequently, the Sidereal system better predicts the ages than the individual like the coming age in Aquarius in 2150, assuming 12 equal zodiacal signs of 2150 years add up to a precession of the spring point through the zodiac in 25,800 years. www.astro.com/astrologia/in_ophiuchus_i.htm www.astro.com/astrology/in_praezession_e.htm

[@geoffreyah]

There are those who argue the horoscope is open to interpretation and precession does not necessarily show that Sidereal astrology can't be used for the individual, but you are using simplistic horoscope charts as an example so I don't see why I can't use it also.

[@TarunKJain-fo3ss]

You are way wrong

[@astrozoo]

The sidereal zodiac doesn't start at a star, it starts at a point opposite a star (Chitra). Is there any star at the first degree of sidereal Aries?

[@anthonyb.7836]

Fausto Essentuki nope

[@fomalhauto]

The Western Sidereal Astrologers base their zodiac on Aldebaran-Antares in 15 degrees Taurus/Aries. They believe that the Babylonians fixed their zodiac on those two stars.

[@MariaOrtiz-pc7io]

It is painful to see Fidler facial expressions...how his arguments were crushed...painful...

[@anthonyb.7836]

O shit

[@WickedWolverine]

I know this isn't the point but about Hitler's chart.. Exalted planets usually have healthy ('dignified') expressions. Debilitated planets may often have unhealthy and scheming/deceptive ways of going about the same things. Although I once heard Eve Mendoza saying that because its Kaliyuga that the debilitated planets may give good results materially. Chart interpretation is super super complex and I don't even know a fraction of it. Im sure with divisional charts things get even more crazy so.

[@WASABINIQABII]

😍😍😍😍😍

[@7belly7]

why this Richard is talking so fast... ^ ^

[@lisajay3860]

Vic i love ur presentations of tropical vs sidereal. It really shuts down the “logic” of sidereal zodiac. Every time you u present ur logic of tropical Zodiac i noticed it provokes ppl who practice sidereal to leave angry elongated disrespectful comments that never make any sense trying desperately to prove u wrong. It is completely fear based, fear of being wrong & feeling stupid hindering their ego. I admire your perseverance, & patience with these ppl. You really exhibit the nature of Capricorn, unstoppable & unbeatable, keep it up! ❤️

[@vee536]

Vic’s argument makes the most sense

[@DanielMartins-og2gj]

All sine waves start at Aries all electro magnetic energy starts at Aries and the tropical Ecliptic starts a sine wave

[@Josephleal19]

Both are technically invalid but can be used. True Sidereal astrology is the true Sidereal astrology.

[@fomalhauto]

If you're referring to the International Astronomical Union (IAU) Zodiac, it has problems too. The International Astronomical Union (IAU) Zodiac aka 13 Sign Zodiac is not so cut and dry even though the zodiac takes all the 13 zodiac ecliptic constellations into account. Some of the IAU zodiac signs have stars of other zodiac constellations including their alpha and beta stars. In my astrological nativity: I have Imum Coeli in 11'14 Tropical Sagittarius in Ophiuchus in the IAU Zodiac, but it is conjunct the star, tau Scorpii in 11'03 Sagittarius. It has a magnitude of 2.8. Paikauhale is the Hawai'ian name for it. In the Hawai'ian dictionary by Puku'i & Elbert (1986), the word paikauhale means to go gadding about from house to house. In another Hawai'ian dictionary (H.W. Kent, 1993, "Treasury of Hawaiian Words in One Hundred and One Categories", p.367), paikauhale is listed with definition Vagabond owning no home; house-to-house wanderer. In some astronomical references, the star designated Tau Scorpii had the name "Alniyat" or "Al Niyat", which was duplicative (and now considered obsolete) with the star designated σ Scorpii (now with IAU name "Alniyat") The indigenous Boorong people of northwestern Victoria saw this star (together with σ Sco) as wives of Djuit (Antares). In Chinese, 心宿 (Xīn Xiù), meaning Heart, refers to an asterism consisting of τ Scorpii, σ Scorpii and Antares.[21] Consequently, τ Scorpii itself is known as 心宿三 (Xīn Xiù sān), "the Third Star of Heart" I have North Lunar Node in 10'29 Tropical Aquarius in Capricorn in the IAU Zodiac, but is is conjunct the star, episilon Aquarii Albali in 11'20 Aquarius. It has a magnitude of 3.8 It is in the left hand of the Water Bearer. Al Bali was the brightest star of the 21st manzil (Arabic Moon Mansion), Al Sa'd al Bula', the Good Fortune of the Swallower, which included mu (μ) and nu (ν); these last also known as Al Bulaan in the dual. The 13th century Persian astronomical writer Al Kazwini said that this strange title came from the fact that the two outside stars were more open than alpha (α) Giedi Prima and beta (β) Dahib of Capricornus, {p.54} so that they seemed to swallow, or absorb, the light of the otheIn the catalogue of stars in the Calendarium of Al Achsasi al Mouakket, it was designated Nir Saad Bula (نير سعد ألبلع nayyir sa'd al bulaʽ), which was translated into Latin as Lucida Fortunæ Dissipantis, meaning "the brightest of luck of the swallower". In Chinese, 女宿 (Nǚ Sù), meaning Girl (asterism), refers to an asterism consisting of Epsilon Aquarii, Mu Aquarii, 4 Aquarii, 5 Aquarii and 3 Aquarii.[14] Consequently, Epsilon Aquarii itself is known as 女宿一 (Nǚ Sù yī, English: the First Star of Girl)r.

[@fomalhauto]

The Alpha Pisces star, Alrisha is in Aries in the IAU Zodiac. The Alpha Scorpius star Antares is in Ophiuchus in the IAU Zodiac. The Beta Aquarius star Sadalsuud is in Capricorn in the IAU Zodiac. Based off of the 2000 Tropical Zodiacal positions listed in Anne Wright’s site, Constellations of Words www.constellationsofwords.com/ Sun conjunct other zodiac constellation’s stars during Sun in Aries April 18-May 13: xi Pisces in 27'31 Aries omicron Pisces in 27'45 tau Pisces in 28'19 Aries upsilon Pisces in 28'47 Aries alpha Pisces Alrisha in 29'23 Aries Sun conjunct other zodiac constellation’s stars during Sun in Libra Oct 30-Nov 23: lambda Khambalia in 6'57 Scorpio 109 Virgo in 8'31 Scorpio mu Virgo in 10'08 Scorpio Sun conjunct other zodiac constellation’s stars during Sun in Scorpio Nov 23-Nov 29: delta Ophiuchus Yed Prior in 02'18 Sagittarius epsilon Ophiuchus Yed Posterior in 3'31 Sagittarius lambda Ophiuchus Marfirk in 5'36 Sagittarius Sun conjunct other zodiac constellation’s stars during Sun in Ophiuchus Nov 29-Dec 18: sigma Scorpius in 7'48 Sagittarius alpha Scorpius Antares in 9'46 Sagittarius tau Scorpius in 11'28 Sagittarius epsilon Scorpius in 15'21 Sagittarius My1 Scorpius in 16'09 Sagittarius zeta2 Scorpius Grafias in 17'18 Sagittarius eta Scorpius in 20'45 Sagittarius upsilon Scorpius Lesath in 24'01 Sagittarius lambda Scorpius Shaula in 24'35 Sagittarius theta Scorpius Sargas in 25'36 Sagittarius Sun conjunct other zodiac constellation’s stars during Sun in Sagittarius Dec 18-Jan 20: NGC6405 M6 Aculeus in 25'44 Sagittarius kappa Scorpius in 26'27 Sagittarius gamma (y) Ophiuchus in 26'38 Sagittarius iota Scorpius in 27'31 Sagittarius G Scorpius in 27'55 Sagittarius NGC6475 M7 Scorpius in 28'45 Sagittarius nu (v) Ophiuchus in Sinistra in 29'45 Sagittarius Sun conjunct other zodiac constellation’s stars during Sun in Capricorn Jan 20-Feb 16: epsilon Aquarius Albali in 11'43 Aquarius beta Aquarius Sadalsuud in 23'24 Aquarius The IAU Constellation boundaries are based on what Eugene Delporte had drawn up in 1930 on behalf of the IAU and published in in Délimitation scientifique des constellations (Cambridge University Press). Before Delporte's work, there was no standard list of the boundaries of each constellation. Eugene Delporte drew the boundaries along vertical and horizontal lines of right ascension and declination; however, he did so for the epoch B1875.0 which means that due to precession of the equinoxes, the borders on a modern star map (e.g., for epoch J2000) are already somewhat skewed and no longer perfectly vertical or horizontal. The IAU 13 Sign Zodiac’s boundaries have nothing to do with ecliptic longitude which is the coordinate that contains the zodiac signs (Tropical Zodiac and 12 Sign Sidereal Zodiac). They have to do with Right Ascension and Declination which are the coordinates that Astronomers mainly use to locate celestial objects. The borders of these boundaries are already off. Using an ecliptic longitude 13 sign zodiac based off of Right and Declination doesn’t make any sense. As I already pointed out, the 13 sign zodiac signs have stars from other constellations. Alpha Scorpius star Antares in Ophiuchus in the IAU 13 zodiac is a glaring issue. I am definitely not going to be telling Alpha Scorpions that they are Ophiuchans, and so no 13 Sign Zodiac for me.

[@RippleDrop.]

Hold on, Hitler having exalted and dignified male planets makes no sense. His actions were not dignified and exalted _at all._

[@RomasKalash]

Exactly.

[@frozennostril]

Vic is the Captain Ahab to the Sidereal Zodiac's Moby Dick.

[@kamlaarora5640]

Progressive research in astrology viz.a viz EXPANDING UNIVERSE : that may take a huge lot of work of correction by contemporary astrologers, you may call scientists, like VicDiKara is very much appreciate to solve and correct the precious knowledge. Some festivals linked with new moon, are coming with full moon🙁