Trying to figure out what paths do in my farming game

Devlog video about "Homegrown", a casual farming game I'm creating using my own engine. Trying out some path related features this week!
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#devlog #Homegrown

[@banditbloodwyndevs8782]

For the path dirtiness I would suggest that all paths get dirty equally fast, but the cleaning is a lot faster on tile paths than on dirt paths. Thats more realistic and should have the same effect on the gameplay :)

[@cloob1811]

@ThinMatrix I would suggest the same thing, but in reverse 😄 The way it is currently and with your suggestion, the tile path is objectively the best path to use, since it has the higher speed bonus AND is cleaner. The only thing that could make players use the dirt path is, if they prefer the visuals, but at least for me, that is never going to be the case. So choosing between the paths is more of a fake decision, since a lot of players will always opt for the objectively more effective gameplay version. If the dirt path is faster to clean but the tile path provides the better bonuses, there actually is value to using both in different situations. I think that is also justifyable, since dirt that has been trampled on a lot, is also quite hard to get off a tile with just a broom. As for the visuals, maybe the same meshes that are used for the digging particles could work. Might be worth a try to scatter them across the paths in a scaled down version and form small heaps. Looking forward to the next video, best of luck.

[@omarhassan2124]

The tile path is gonna be more expensive so the player has to use it on the most important plants only

[@andredias5061]

Dirt path should get dirtier slower than the stone path, and its cleaning speed should be slower as well

[@luciusoflegend]

​@@cloob1811 I was about to suggest this lol. Also, (partly in response to @omarhassan2124), maybe there should be a third, more expensive path that is the best of both worlds.

[@lynn.charlotte]

Maybe dirt paths grow over with grass more quickly and you have to repair them in order for them to remain useful

[@Tomyk9991]

The same particles that come up when you place something in your bed should be "lying around" on the pathway. maybe thats a good alternative to your "dirty texture"

[@ThinMatrix]

That's a nice idea, I might have to try something like that. I hadn't really considered having 3D meshes for the dirt, but that could work quite well! Thanks!

[@Gludek]

@@ThinMatrix I think instead of dirtiness you could do "condition". Higher level paths have better toughness so they lower in condition less often. On every tile type it could show small cracks on medium condition, and bigger cracks with some grass coming trough them the lower condition goes.

[@domnumircea]

and dirt should acumulate in path cracks and to the sides, not in the path's center line where it is walked often...

[@Chridy]

@@Gludek Adding moss and weeds to the mix could be interesting too to display the condition- weeds sprouting on dirt paths and moss spreading across tile paths

[@Gludek]

@Chridy nah, I suggested cracks because it can be implemented without textures, moss would be confusing without different textures for grass and moss. And putting weeds on the path while it is blocking weeds from spreading between beds is counterintuitive, I suggested grass sprouting to signify it being closer to normal terrain rather than tile in its effectiveness

[@Zeandico]

For dirty paths, I thought that besides dirt, they could also become overgrown. Dirt paths growing grass patches, and the tiles having weeds/grass poking up from in between the tiles. Might be an alternative graphic to just adding dirt. Although, the broom would have to be changed to something like a weewacker or something I guess.

[@Zeandico]

@@DevGamerBeard That is an understandable point of view. I imagine that it could easily be rectified with a toggle option. Of course, I imagine that disabling maintinence, would result in less benefits. After all, when it comes to gardening and farming, to truly flourish, tool, garden and enviormental maintinence is an unfortunate reality.

[@TMinusRecords]

@@Zeandico If you ever feel the need to add a toggle to a game mechanic you're designing then it needs rethinking. This is a game, why have "unfortunate realities" in it!

[@Zeandico]

@@TMinusRecords Because games come with goals, challanges and adverseties?

[@ericconnor8419]

@@TMinusRecords Because some people really enjoy it. The best games have toggle mechanics for everything and a massive menu to make changes, and allow modding to change them even more. There is no such thing as a game that suits all people out the box. I am a professional gardener I like the sound of having to weed paths because I don't find gardening a bore. It's all tasks like that otherwise you could just use 3D garden design software to create a perfect garden with no problems.

[@ericconnor8419]

@@Zeandico Therein lies the game

[@mitchl5220]

Maybe you could add pests such as caterpillars which only spread to stuff in the same bed, unless they pupate and become butterflies and then they will lay their eggs onto other beds. Also you could add wild animals which roam around and eat pests and maybe some of them will be more likely to use paths. Just a thought.

[@ThinMatrix]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[@undying29]

Pests could also have a maximum spread of say 5 or 10 tiles. This way not only it's beneficial to separate crops by a path to stop the spread of weed, but also alternate the type of crops to control pest infestations.

[@undying29]

This would encourage players to use more of the map. Maybe decors could have effects for specific range like a row of trees helping block spread of pest, water well have a bonus on watering, etc...

[@Spy653]

Pest propagation could also be chance based, you could have it so they spread more through beds, less over paths, and neutrally through grass.

[@NightHutStudio]

^^ animals using paths is an interesting idea!

[@willhart2188]

I like that bonus system. Makes it so that better tools allow for larger fields, making progression more visible too.

[@qwerty_and_azerty]

For the dirt visuals, I’d say you want little blobs of dirt as simple hemispherical-esque 3D objects, either in the middle or along the edge. That would fit in with your art style

[@mmckeeha]

He could use the models that he has for weeding.

[@YairVich]

I thought of blobs of dirt too for visuals, also described as mud

[@mmaaauuuuiiiii]

A path connection idea would be to create aqueduct paths that when connecting a well and a bed it could keep the bed watered or if that's too OP you could make it keep any crops withing 3 tiles of the aqueduct watered which would also ensentivise small beds in the late game when you have better tools that could handle a large bed in one go. This could also give you a reason to add small bridges to your farm as well.

[@nekoimouto4639]

that would be called "irrigation". would be interesting if the amount flowing through it was important so you dont overwater your crops, or need to flood the bed to grow rice.

[@christ.6211]

I have some suggestions: * one would be that maybe some plants have some specific placement requirements such as: (vaguely similar with Farlanders buildings). + for example maybe cauliflower gets better quality if it has some shade (like a tall plant like corn) (that seems to actually true) + or maybe some plants need more space, so if adjacent tile are empty they get a boost in growth + some species influence each other spicy peppers will make regular ones spicy if they are close when they pollinate (you decide if that's a good or a bad thing) + maybe tiles adjacent to grass have a higher chance of being infested with weed + and then you can make up some imaginary rules like: some plants like to grow in a row, some of them maybe work well together, other might not * another one would be that the effect of plots connected by paths to specific object might get a greater effect if they are closer (similar to Cities Skylines utilities services) * if you would like to make the player use different path type for different purposes you can make the path types have upsides and downsides (maybe the upside of the dirt path is that it never gets dirty, because it also makes some sense, and the the player might think more if they want to upgrade the path for further benefits at the cost of more labor, that being the cleaning of it) In my opinion these changes would add a lot of optional complexity to the game for people that like puzzles and want to optimize.

[@Chridy]

I want to expand on idea 6 because that sounds interesting actually. - Different plants could have different "shape" requirements - line, square, round, etc. - If planted in a bed that isn't the correct shape, they may struggle to pollinate and grow, whilst getting a boost if they are in a bed of the correct shape. - If the bed is the right shape but the seeds aren't planted in the right shape (e.g. filling out 3 squares of a square bed), the plants don't get the bonus but maybe don't get the debuff as they're partly correct? Your idea 3 is also interesting. Plants could require X number of spaces around their bed to be empty to be able to grow properly and paths would be a clear way to do this. in addition, some plants might spread and turn adjacent or nearby spaces into bed plots with their seed already planted, or replace whatever plant is already there with their own (I'm imagining something like that Japanese weed that spreads really fast). This spreading can then be slowed by dirt paths and stopped by tile paths

[@gorgeousorc]

Love the positive bonus versus negative effect when determining paths. One thing I wouldn't forget is the intrinsic desire players have to make things pretty. Like an organize farm

[@Hughsie28]

Edit: this was already in the video. One thing I picked up from a garden center was that sometimes concrete paths are used to separate beds/soil to prevent unwanted weeds growing between them, which could introduce a pro/con system of having weeds affect some plants more than others, and if the player had one massive bed it would punish them by the weed rapidly spreading uncontrollably where as paths could have contained it resulting in less weedkiller needed and less crop lost losing profits

[@kiki-drawer2669]

This is a really good point! Weed spreading of fungus or gnats!

[@roz1]

Hi @ThinMatrix how is your health now? Hope u r doing well ❤️‍🩹

[@AdrianLMD]

Oi, so my idea for the implementation of path would be to make diseases, weeds and insects spread more quickly the further the middle of the bed is from the closest path. For example, if you have a 2x2 bed, every plot is touching a path, which makes it easy to care for. a 5x5 bed has a plot which is 2 plots away from the closest path, which means, it's not as easy to be taken care of, so diseases spread more quickly. The better the quality of the path, the fewer insects cross it, which in turns means, fewer insects per bed thus slower sprad of diseases. The punishment gets worse, the bigger the bed is. Obviously you can still care for the bed by hand, but it's jsut easier to build some paths. In Stardew Valley is it way to easy to just turn your whole farm into one single bed for the best seasonal crop and make craploads of money. Always bothered me, because there was no point to make the farm at least a little bit realistic.

[@ThinMatrix]

Thanks for the suggestion, that makes a lot of sense. Nice idea!

[@finleyghost]

I love the idea of kinda meshing a city builder game with a farming game. It’s so neat

[@jengibs]

In Sun Haven, which is one of my favorite farm sims, there are perks you can unlock that allow you to walk faster on your paths so you can get around the farm faster. I'm pretty sure paths served a similar function in Ooblets. I think paths should also be weed/random spawn proof. Plus some people just like paths because they are aesthetically pleasing. So they don't necessarily have to have a function, people will decorate with them regardless, but it is a nice feature when they do serve a function.

[@aershipinteractive7025]

That transition at 15:15 was clean! Nice job! This looks like a fun game with a lot of new fresh ideas for the genre.

[@Graham2777]

There was one at about 10:52 too. Is it rude that it was a stand-out moment in the whole video for me?

[@Spealer]

I was just about to comment this haha

[@jameshowells]

Have the whole Equilinox gang come bobbing by at random intervals

[@saurav3078]

always get that rush of happiness when i see a thinmatrix upload!

[@ThunderDK74]

Yup. Same 😀

[@mathijsfrank9268]

For the bed bonuses. Maybe you could have some kind of counter/ visual cue that shows that you're about to get one of them. For example a circle which fills when all the plants in the bed are watered which then explodes when you have reached the bonus

[@ThinMatrix]

Ooh yeah, nice idea!

[@justink5545]

like littlewood, maybe you could have a town hall that gives you a score on how pretty your farm is (based on organization and variety) and gives you rewards for a higher score. along those same lines, it'd be nice to have more tools and items to decorate your farm with

[@nerdyturkey312]

How about a trampling effect when you move into a bed to work it? Could cause some damage to plants or unwanted soil compression. Bigger beds would lead to more trampling. Just like in real life.

[@marta_na_moto]

Im in the middle of watching but when you were showing the diferent beds 2 ideas popped into my mind. idea 1 offtopic - that blue bed looks like water... fish farm?! idea 2 on topic - maybe you could put different fertilizer per bed that gives you different properties. like more % for multiple yeld of potatos, or exta fast grow for pumpinks..

[@MrErijl]

I really like the idea of having bonus effects based on the pathways. However, I can imagine that it limits the player into using a specific path for the boost while another one would look better on the farm (or generally, maybe stop you from implementing more unique pathway textures like wooden boards etc.)

[@tiago_ffp]

For the dirty paths, it would maybe a good idea to have geometry show it. Maybe have some kind of dirt piles that show next to the beds would better to demonstrate the "hard access" to those paths. It could be mixed in with some weeds to, that you need to remove to move freely as well. Idk just an idea, hope it helps

[@ThinMatrix]

Thanks for the suggestion! I think you're right, that representing the dirt with 3D geometry might be the way to go. Thanks!

[@mypdf]

for the tiles or a gravel path you could have weeds growing on the path represent the dirt@@ThinMatrix

[@mekafinchi]

I think weeds could be a primary motivator for surrounding a bed with paths - if weeds spread from outside across your grass (diagetically or otherwise), they'd be less likely to cross the boundary if there's a plant-free area in the way. It would also make sense that stone paths do this better and the effect is lessened as they get dirty

[@AmfistomosAtlas]

Glad to see that you finally switched from Eclipse to IntelliJ! Also I hope you implement day/night cycles and seasons or at least weather in the game! That would make the negative buffs on the paths make more sense. Also the paths could get dirty by weeds growing on them (and that could affect beds attached to them) or by weed from one bed that could spread over a dirt-path to another bed.

[@ThunderDK74]

Connecting to the pathways and having the plots completely surrounded could also connect to the water well and have an additional water length bonus for that maybe.

[@doctorbezier6561]

I really liked your solution for smaller beds! Before you mentioned the path speed boost thing, I was thinking that maybe the watering "bonus" is that you can continue watering quicker each time. So kinda like a multiplier that gets quicker for each bed. That way the watering process is a little more interesting and strategic. This could work for harvesting, compost, etc too.

[@advikman]

When the player starts doing an action on a bed, it would be cool to have an outline around the bed that acts like a progress bar, filling up the closer you get to finishing the full bed in one go, or removes the outline when the combo is interrupted

[@rym9799]

I really like the idea of the weeds infecting a bed. Maybe you could have some mechanic where the weeds do actually spread between beds, but by having paths in between, the spread of the weeds is slowed. Tile paths slow the spread of weeds most effectively etc. Also like the dirtiness. As a lot of people have commented already I think, the quicker cleaning on tiles makes sense. In the case of the visuals, I think having little dark dirt particles instead of a smooth texture would fit better with the arts type already achieved. Similar to the particles that briefly appear when working a bed. Hope I can help!

[@CodingDragon04]

A somewhat simple use for paths: What if certain actions like watering placing compost have to be within a certain range of a path that is connected to your house. This mimics the real life phenomenon where if a plot of land gets too big you can't reach all of it without walking through it and trampling the crops. This gives both a use for paths and limits the size of plots!

[@ThinMatrix]

That was my first thought too (and I talked about something very similar to this at 4:55 in the video where tools gets slower and slower the further from a path they are) but I worried about this being too negative and restrictive to the player (I discussed this a bit at that part in the video). But it's something I'm still considering; maybe I'll end up going with that.

[@Aquillyne]

I like this idea. Simple and on theme.

[@Aquillyne]

Weeds is also “negative”.

[@civ20]

Really starting to come along now! Good job!

[@ThinMatrix]

Thank you!

[@dotLaura]

As you were thinking of ideas around connecting objects to beds, I was thinking of a annual village award for attractive landscaping that gets you a small boost or bonus (maybe some prestige that increases the amount you can sell your crops for)

[@lipbalmplease]

To add a reason to the paths which is a similar suggestion others - It would be nice to see "farmers" use the paths but who are not controlled, as its clear its not apart of your current scope and nor should it be as a "click-type" game. A farmer with a wheelbarrow and his/her dog patrol along the paths (while performing "working" animations like weeding/brushing) and are the ones that "discover" the weeds and/or invading rodents (farmers see weeds, dog sees the rodents). They have a limited visual range so beds cant be too big, otherwise the farmer/dog etc cant see into the deepest parts of the bed. Improved paths allow the farmer to patrol longer/faster with his/her wheelbarrow. Farm dogs and improved wheelbarrows could be bought from the local shop.

[@spidermankey1398]

You could have workers working for you that will use paths to walk around

[@ThinMatrix]

It's a common suggestion but it's just a bit outside the scope of what I plan to implement for this game (and it's giving me flashbacks to the city-builder just thinking about it!) That's not to say there will never be any AI people in the game, maybe it's something I would eventually add after release, but it definitely wouldn't be a core part of the gameplay. The game is very much designed around you doing the farming yourself, rather than assigning it to be done by AI workers.

[@zocratez4867]

had a similar idea. But instead of many workers, it would only be one gardener for example. So basically you would give your gardener commands on what to do, and the pathways help him to get to those tasks faster. You could then add on similar effects like growth speed bonuses and so on for different types and grids of pathways. For example 10% more fertility if surrounded with gravel path, 5% more movement speed of your gardener when having a certain amount of rock way tiles. Speaking of amounts of certain path types: you could also add some bonuses for certain amounts as passive global bonuses. Say you got 20 tiles of dirt ways you gain something, or you have 30 tiles of another type which gives you another bonus permanently. Also you could add moles, dandelions and stuff, that would gradually damage and eventually destroy tiles, which would delete bonuses so you gotta keep the pathways intact. Note: I didn't watch the video fully :D

[@Micah20001]

Anyway it would be nice to have some live in the game. Maybe some birds, or animals outside of the playable area. @@ThinMatrix

[@nathanrankin1472]

I came here to say this as well. I realize it's a big shift but I think workers would open a lot of different gameplay functionality: - queuing tasks like harvesting a big plot and then see them run over on the paths to harvest, - transporting harvested crops to storage, - individual character traits like tool upgrades, laziness stats, etc - background tasks when nothing is queued like cleaning the paths, making compost, etc

[@user-xf8nk1ih8v]

I think animals instead of workers would be great. Like a goat that eats weeds or dogs and cats that eat bugs wich would harm the plants or protect the plants from birds

[@Mystixor]

I could imagine it would be interesting if Dirt Paths won't get dirty at all (I guess it also makes sense like this) and some higher tier paths might get dirty at different rates. Maybe some paths have the same buffs but different dirtiness rates or something like that. This will really make the player think which path to choose and might even be a reason to keep specific beds surrounded by lower tier paths even in the lategame, so they don't get dirty as quickly

[@multicoloredbee4172]

this exactly

[@lancer197]

Exactly my idea, too

[@xRoGeSx]

Paths remind me of Oxtgen Not Included doors as an idea. They are not usefull themselves, but they help form rooms, which provide different specialty bonuses ( ie a kitchen cooks food faster, than just a station in the middle of nowhere ). Feel like that would fit into the whole farm fantasy ( having separate rooms for crops, having yield or growth rate bonuses from rooms, similar to fertilizer ?)

[@fidget2030]

Having a bonus for having only compatible crops in the same bed, or even debuffs for crops that don't play nice together (where a fast growing crop crowds out a slower growing plant) would be interesting

[@fidget2030]

The 3 sisters (corn, beans and squash/pumpkin) were grown together by native Americans because they have a beneficial relationship to each other. Monocropping has the advantage you only need 1 type of fertilizer etc, but tends to wear out the soil faster, requiring more fertilizer etc. Adding this kind of pro and con system for combining crops in a bed would be really interesting

[@tassimo9995]

the dirt on the paths could be represented as little twigs, leaves or pebble. i also had the idea of sweeping the dirt from the tiles you want to clean onto the neighboring tiles in one specific direction and piling up a large heap. this heap could be used for composting

[@kolegaramic260]

The combo bonus is so smarttt. Good job on coming up w it

[@barthelemy.villotte]

You could add an automatic sprinkler powered by a cable, so when you have enough money, you could buy one and it will water automatically your terrain !

[@ThinMatrix]

I'm planning on adding sprinklers at some point :)

[@HaeriStudios]

Don't know if it would fit the vision but might be interesting to introduce a robot or a pet that you could buy which would help you automate certain tasks in game. Then you would also have a reason to have paths for the robot to move around and not get stuck in the grass.

[@TMinusRecords]

7:16 That's really clever, it's arcadey, rewarding, a bit of a minigame and also has deeper implications for farm planning!

[@BalintCsala]

For the path if you want to keep the same style as the rest of the game, it might make sense to have weeds grow out of them. Also, man, can you share the recipe you used for the food at 15:30? It looks amazing

[@ThinMatrix]

Here's the recipe I used: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e6XTqIKsn6iBe6s

[@BalintCsala]

@@ThinMatrix Thanks!

[@MarkIsAsleep]

Random comment: Im graduating tomorrow!!! (College)

[@liv919]

🎉🎉🎉

[@mateusluz8234]

Nice video @ThinMatrix ! The Combo system is very nice. About the path, i like the idea of the bonuses... I would just make it in a way that the bonus of the house would be applied for only "20" blocks of distance, just like its easier to carry things to your house when you are near it (then you get a bonus for speedy if your bed is near your house) or your water can have more water if that bed that is near the well... I think this would be a nice way to make the player think about where to place the crops and itens in the world.

[@Skeffles]

Fantastic! I love that you made it a reward rather than a punishment for having smaller flower beds.

[@kozzza]

First!

[@Shelpface]

You're cheater😱

[@Ferenc-Racz]

Wow.. how?

[@haydenap]

No need to apologize about the style of video this time. I actually really enjoy hearing your thought process when developing new ideas and gameplay systems. It's even better when it starts out rough because then you can progress to a more polished system and we get to see and hear your process. I think the path ideas you're exploring are really cool, I especially like how you identified how as a designer you could implement systems that punish the player for wanting to play a certain way but instead opted for the reverse which incentivizes players to play a certain way by providing the combo bonus. One thing that stuck out to me near the end was about how you were considering player choice when it comes to what kind of pathway the player may use to surround a given crop. To me this is pretty one dimensional in its current implementation since ultimately money is the only thing that would stop players from wanting to upgrade all of their paths to the best paths (tile).

[@zacharyshepherd1738]

I dont know if you intend to add a little farmer npc but im going with it since it was in your concept art. If paths connect a bed to the house then the farmer can access the bed or at least more easily (perhaps a slow tip toe animation). They wouldn’t be responsible for the main chores but would do little things like; adding an extra bit of growth juice, watering a plant here and there, or perhaps standing next to a weed, waving and making a “yoo hoo” sound to notify the player of something. Just as an occasional help and to give a bit of life. It would be cute to see them sweeping leaves, refilling a bird feeder, fishing at a dock, cloud watching, tripping over in mud etc.

[@isaacutie]

someone has already said something similar but i think making the dirt paths not able to get dirty is an interesting idea: they give less of a boost but they don't require the maintenance. mostly because i think in the later game there is no reason to keep your dirt paths if you have the money to get the expensive ones, it feels more like a significant choice in the hands of the player, if that makes any sense. i love watching all your devlogs, your thought process and brainstorming. keep up the good work ! :)

[@Hoody803]

Maybe, one good ideia is to have specific (and random) spots in your farm that can benefit most from specific types of crops. I think this is a way of giving choices for the player when creating paths. Imagine that growing carrots in a specific region on the map (a better soil for it) give you a boost and more quality carrots, so the player can choose to create a path to that spot to place a carrot seed bed there or just put them closer to the other beds he already own cause he don't want to spent more resource or other reason. I think this is something that can make the farm look more like the ones you build yourself in the videos, with some longer paths leading to a specif crop and some smaller ones with more density and diversity.

[@bobbelcher6742]

You could make the paths get overgrown rather than just dirty, so they could have vines or grass grow onto them. Maybe the paths could risk overgrowing away entirely, and thats why they have to be cleaned

[@dmdjt]

A few points that came to mind: - The bigger a tool, the heavier it is. A heavier tool needs a path, an even heavier tool needs a stone path. - The cleaning could be done in a scrubbing motion.. .could feel even more satisfying. - The path tiles could break instead of getting dirty. Could lead to a cleaner visual representation. - You could implement special fertilizers, which affect a whole patch of soil. Or you could just tell the player, that different plants take different nutrients from the soil and mixed patches grow slower. - Plants having a neighbor of another kind could visible grow slower and smaller to teach the player, not to place different plants near to each other - Plants could spread/diffuse within a patch and mixed plants can't be harvested at once - so the player needs to use smaller tools in mixed patches (this could feel like a bug)

[@RaduCruceru]

I've been watching your videos for a while and I enjoy your content. The like the idea of paths and I have three suggestions as paths for you: - aqueduct: transports water to a bed automatically, but the source has a capacity and water requirement for a bed is proportional to it's size (e.g. the reservoir (which you have to buy) can provide up to 50 litres with a 10l/hour refill rate and each tile requires 1 liter; if you make the bed too big, it could dry in time) - conveyor belt: for moving compost around or the crop to silos or warehouses - bridges: this requires being able to build paths on top of each other, but you can make a beautiful rose garden with a splendid arch bridge :) Keep up the good work!!!

[@martinmeincke4840]

Love this series, thank you so much for sharing your work

[@eventh1987]

I think a big thing that will make this game fun to play, as it seems to be chill 'chore-simulation' game a-la Animal Crossing, is to add game-juice to all the activities like cleaning, weeding and harvesting that could get tedious, especially as the farm scales up in size. In any case, the game is going great, I am astounded every dev log with how much progress the game is making and it looks gorgeous now with the art overhaul. I'm hoping it will be as fun to play as looks when it comes out. Excellent work so far :)

[@imananimefan11]

for connecting paths to objects, i recently learned that in wine vineyards, at the end of all the grape vines, there's a rosebush at the end. if they rosebush can successfully blossom, that tells the farmer that the grapes are in good condition because roses only thrive in certain conditions. i feel like something like that would be cool :)

[@CraWea]

Excited about this game! 😄 Some ideas: - Maybe tools have a “range” attribute, letting them only work within a certain amount of tiles from the path (similar to your idea of slowing down the tools, but more of a strict limit). That could also give incentive for tool upgrades, like being able to water tiles further away from the path. Maybe if you try to reach plants that are further away you have to step on/destroy plants. You could indicate this visually with footprints in the soil, leading from the path. (And dirty footprints on the path.) - You could probably repurpose the path/graph logic for a watering system, similar to how city builders have water systems. - Maybe paths simply provide aesthetic value? Like in the game “Townscaper”, maybe the end goal is not found in boosts and numbers..

[@AJVenom123]

with the path-logic it makes sense to add more build options. It makes me want to place street-lights, benches, etc. With the addition of a day/night cycle and different animals/bugs roaming around would be awesome. I'd love having multiple pets which would each have their own utility, like a bee pollenating or a dog scaring pests away. Even having farmers that dedicate themselves to a couple farming beds would make it feel alive. Awesome video, I'm a big fan of the path-logic. it seems so useful for future updates.

[@BrunoMeM]

The game is becoming really nice already! I think you cold make the chance of pests or weeds appearing higher if the bedding isn't surrounded by paths, like they work as a sort of "barrier" for the spreading of weeds. On the other hand, you could also make them vulnerable to weeds themselves, so when they're full of weeds they start to infect the beddings... this could be more immersive I think.

[@TheMitko97]

Hi Karl, my suggestion is to put a farmer character inside the game who follows the player's cursor and does what the player wants when they click the mouse. The catch is that the farmer should only walk on certain paths, but not on the soil bed, because he would squish the produce, not because the developer put an invisible wall there. So just like in real life, the farmer might make small soil beds and walk around them on a path they made. The cursor can be active only within the reach of the farmer, for example 2 tiles. That would make the widest soil bed only 4 tiles, if the player wants the farmer to reach the inner tiles. The player is still free to make a large soil bed, but what's the point if they can't reach all the way in the middle? Unless they can eat the spinach they've grown to get taller and update their "reach" characteristic from 2 tiles to 4. Maybe that's too much because the game starts turning into a farming RPG. I know you need to draw the line somewhere, in terms of features, to control the scope of the game. Lastly I just want to add that if you do implement a farmer character who walks on specific tiles, then these tiles can influence his performance. For example the stone tiles make him walk faster and carry more produce in a wagon. The farmer can walk on any tile, but the wagon should only be pulled on stone tiles, otherwise it will get stuck in the mud. What I am trying to say is that you can make the tiles have a significant impact on the gameplay if you have someone to walk on them. Otherwise, when the player is floating over their farm and clicking on everything, why should they make paths? Anyway, this is just an idea. I'm sure that whatever you do it will turn out great! Good luck!

[@bejoscha]

Some ideas for beds: a) For beds containing a single type of crop, let the soil quality deter quicker if there are too many connected tiles. (Keeping bed-sizes down.) The idea being, that the same crop extract the same required nutrients and "over farming" reduces the overall nutrients quicker. b)For beds containing different types of crop: Pests. If pests have "favorite" crops then beds with a single crop would only (or more likely) attract those which have it as "favorite". If a bed has multiple crops, all of them attract "their" pests - but the pests still affect all plants. Effectively attracting more pests then nicely separated (smaller) beds. Additional idea: Some crops could negatively effect the attractiveness of some pests, making certain crop combinations more beneficial than others. c) Beauty. Some general score of one's farm that encompasses how beautiful it is (with nicer, smaller, well sorted beds being obviously beneficial.) This could have some bonus on advertisement. Maybe bringing in some pass-by buyers that buy yields at higher price. Or it could just be a "score" in itself that players want to get high on.

[@iUserapp]

Some possible mechanics inspired by nature: 1. (empty) soil tiles that directly border grass tiles sometimes turn back into grass. The same could be true for dirt paths, but with a much lower probability. 2. plants that are near stone paths don't dry up as fast, since they collect more rain. 3. to harvest a tile (or several connected ones) they need to be connected to the house by paths and empty tiles. So you couldn't harvest a ripe plant inside a big field.

[@QuotidianStupidity]

That *bonus* graphic is your dopamine hit right there - great idea

[@christophertuller3202]

You could make a "player" that would plant and harvest but on on plots that are connected to a path, paths get dirty over time and break blocking you from sections of your farm and you have to clean them if there dirty or repair them if they break, you'd pretty much make a que system and the little player person would walk over and do what you told him, it'll slow down game play but gives paths more reason to be in the game and a main part of walking around, another idea is paths are optional, but if the player walk on the plot with a plant there's a chance it'll break giving even more incentive to have paths

[@Definitely_a_Fox]

Lots of really good ideas in this video! I really like the idea of the invasive weeds. They'd be a mild irritance in smaller garden beds, and an absolute show stopper for "minmaxed gardens". (You could even make the vicious invasive weeds slightly more likely the bigger a garden bed is.) I also like the combo system, although it might be sensible to make it so a garden bed has to be a minimum size before it's eligible. If you don't, then players might just make 1x1 gardens to instantly reap the rewards of a combo.

[@TheSharkasmCrew]

I was going to comment relating this to terrain placement in Roller Coaster Tycoon 1/2, but now all I can think about is how smooth that transition at 10:50 was 😍

[@miamackenzie9946]

I like the idea of a guy wandering around. A lot of people are already suggesting this as like a “player character” but I’m sort of imagining they’d be one permanent passive character. Who goes around, waters, cleans and weeds as long as theirs a path to help them do so. Maybe they’re just a cat or a dog so they can’t do things super helpful and you can’t tell them what to do but they do passively do stuff for you that’s just a little helpful. Would make the little path feel alive if there was a character wandering around and actively using them 👍

[@Pyrografpl]

Thank you! Good to see you think twice your moves. I wish this kind of process in every business.

[@TheRedAstro]

food for thought: in the game Farthest Frontier (Crate Entertainment) your crops can be affected by diseases (each subset of crops are affected by different sort of diseases) and adverse weather. Having a giant bed gives you a greater output, but at a risk some disease / bad weather will wipeout your year's harvest. Some risk/reward related to bed sizes should be interesting.

[@Brixxter]

A few ideas: -Pathways could serve as a bit of a barrier between grass and soil tiles, reducing the rate of weeds spreading from one to the other -Instead of getting dirty, dirt paths could become trampled, requiring a rake to be cleaned up instead -Players could buy a roomba that slowly cleans paths. I feel like the game lacks a bit of life, and a cute little character assisting the player could help a bit with that

[@lukebennett3189]

I think an interesting mechanic would be sprinklers and that could perhaps help with the keeping plot sizes small. Love these devlogs, as a web developer it’s always interesting seeing how game devs work

[@keinerahnt123]

Your videos are always entertaining and insightful. Thank you for showing us the development process of your game!

[@cineblazer]

To make the dirty paths fit better with the artstyle, maybe represent the dirt as a bunch of strewn clumps/clod objects that slowly accumulate? Almost like what you have with the garden tiles after you place compost on them.

[@otoS97]

One thing I want from this game is feeling of transforming something wild and unhabited land to the lovely garden. I want the fances to be gone and the gress to be filled with the wild grasses and leafs that needs cleaning.. Even the random trees at unwanted places that you could chop down to clean the place. Also grass to be refilling with the wild grasses and affecting around if you would not take care of it.

[@His-Games]

I was thinking a while ago about how you'd encourage spreading your farm over your entire land, instead of just building a crop factory as compact as possible. How about adding variable fertility or even tile classes that work better with different types of plants. That way your plant patches are spread out far and wide, and should build a more organic garden.

[@imnon1660]

A lot of potential personal creativity, strategy, min-maxxing and realism is sacrificed for the watering bonus solution. The weeds would be a good choice as long as they're a somewhat detailed subsystem and not just a random plague with a catch-all solution. I think the object connection bonuses are a phenomenal idea that adds depth to multiple different play styles without sacrificing anything I can think of that's significant. Also, you're living my absolute dream and I wish I could garden and program like you do.

[@blockappella]

Hey ThinMatrix! I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this or not, and I don't know that you'll like it as a suggestion (and I won't be hurt at all if you don't) but maybe instead of path 'dirtiness' you could do path degradation, so instead of dirt paths getting dirt on them you could have grass overtaking the pathway, and instead of the tile getting dirty it could get cracked over time. pros: - easier to implement a way to fit it into the graphic style (could simply have stages, similar to vegetables) - if left unattended for a very long time maybe the tiles could revert to normal grass tiles - logical consistency/realistic cons: - not sure there is a single tool that could represent repairs or maintenance for this - completely different direction than you were originally imagining - if tiles revert could possibly be more of an annoying chore rather than a thoughtful mechanic idk that it'll work for your plans, but I thought I might as well suggest it in case it inspires some kind of solution for you 👍 keep up the awesome work!

[@euroger123]

A concept that might help in the game: That are some types of plants that have greedy roots (peppermint is one of those), that means that you're not supposed to plant one of those in the same pot as others. You can think of how different plants can relate to other types of plants. Another example is how basil can help avoid bugs in neighbour plants. Hope that helps :)

[@AmeHart]

One thing I would suggest for incentivising smaller beds is to have a growth debuff on beds that don't have the same or compatible crops (e.g. potatoes and corn are compatible, but potatoes and tomatoes aren't). There are real-world references you can use for what crops are compatible, so it could be realistic in that sense. This incentivises using smaller beds for like or compatible crops and deincentivises using large beds that have a variety of unlike or incompatible crops. Having it be explicitly a debuff for incompatibility rather than a buff for compatibility makes the intended growth buffs all the more satisfying to get. and may produce funny or balanced results if you have both a growth buff and debuff. Looking forward to this !

[@Moonbeam_Devdad]

Another awesome update! I think the game is coming along great! I liked how this video was a bit more "higglely figglely" (or however you'd spell that lol). It was cool to see your thinking process and trying different ideas! Your videos have been a big reason why i started my own devlog channel, thank you!

[@landsgevaer]

Just like in e.g. City Skylines you need a road to build buildings next to, you could allow the player only to interact with tiles that are not too far from a path tile. Maybe different tile types or dirt decrease the reach, or some crops are easier to access than others. Seems realistic enough to me. That might also require you to clean paths because otherwise you might not be able to harvest a crop that you planted before, because the path became too dirty and inaccessible meanwhile.

[@Keatosis_Quohotos]

Slower harvesting further from the path is actually a really good idea. It does feel a little artificial, but it's also very self explanatory. The player can intuit it from feedback without needing it to be explained in a tutorial

[@spidermankey1398]

I like how the paths get dirty when you have them surrounding the beds. But i think what players will do is use the dirt paths to connect to beds and use the brick path to surround it and use the higher tier buffs. To balance it off you can make it so the brick path needs more maintenance. Nice video ❤

[@cameronstroebel3333]

The first idea that comes to mind when thinking about what would benefit from a path is entities travelling along those paths. I figure you don't want to introduce something like robots that do the garden work for you, so how about the idea/lore being that something's helping, while mechanically it just applies a buff like the house does. Something (rough idea) like: Garden gnomes (decorative) Lore: comes to life at night and eats bugs found in nearby beds Mechanics: Provides a pest resistance buff to all beds connected by paths Caveat: Doesn't like stone paths because it's difficult to sneak in ceramic shoes (encourages using a variety of different paths throughout your garden depending on the needs of the crops) As for the dirt textures, my suggestion would be to use a similar texture to the one you're already using for compost. That would help it match the art style, and maybe even save some assets if you're re-using textures. Could also tie into what you already mentioned about doing work in the garden causes the paths to get dirty, ie. while adding compost to the crops, you spill some and so that's the cause of the dirt Looking forward to the next update

[@yoctometric]

Thanks for another great devlog! One potential downside of the combo bonus idea, which does look pretty fun otherwise, is that it would discourage mixing crops within a single plot. In real life, this can actually be very beneficial, and I find gardens that are more mixed in this way more visually interesting. Maybe there could be a way to encourage planting complementary crops next to each other in order to offset this? Like, planting the three sisters together could give a significant yield bonus or something.

[@mordiaky]

this is looking amazing, Now one thing why you want separate beds is to rotate crops. Rotated crops can yield in higher quality or larger yield. Another mechanic can be Beauty. Decorate and optimize your garden and there can be a yearly contest for best looking garden built into the game. this can be ran by the mayor of the town, the winner can get something like 10% increase selling prices, or a 10% discount on tools/seeds. other AI contestants can enter as well. of course these are just numbers generated behind the scenes. Just some ideas to toss in.

[@cmdrblaze6487]

Looking pretty great. One suggestion, maybe you could make it so the buff given to a bed is determined by the dirtiest tile on the path from it to the building giving the buff, that way players are encouraged to keep high maintenance plants on their own paths or risk slowing down the beds further down the line

[@tobycampbell3897]

I think a nice way to visually represent the "dirt" instead of noise textures would be small dirt clump models randomly generated and scattered about, keep them cleanly textured as the rest of the game and let their size and scatter become the noise. Could also be something like plant trimmings/ leaves that scatter around. You could add a leaf blower item that allows faster cleaning. Good work!

[@Spealer]

Really love the progress you keep making this game! It's looking incredible!

[@codehawkfalcon]

Your videos are always so good. It’s fun to see you cooking with the veggies you grew. Thank you! I really love your buffs idea.

[@liammiddleton5716]

Great update! Really enjoying following your progress. For a negative of paths you could have weeds spreading along the paths. Stone paths spread slower than dirt paths, but the weeds take longer / are harder to dig out of the stone paths. This could work well with the dirty paths mechanic. For the large beds problem I thought you could fully limit some tools. As if you couldn't harvest that deep into a bed without spoiling some plants. Or it wasn't possible to reach the watering can that far. Finally, given that planting different crops together like tomato and basil is good in the real world, it might make sense to benefit certain crops being planted together 😊

[@Neerak10]

I love the dimensions of maintenance this is adding! Proper cosy game stuff

[@mkrichey1]

The bonus system is a nice solution for encouraging the player behavior you want, the game is looking great too!

[@nekoimouto4639]

paths are most often used as boundaries to your beds, keeping the carrots and the potatoes separated and directing your own movement between them. they often are more or less used as a visual guide, if you find a crop layout that you are comfortable with you can use paths to mark where you should/n't place crops next time. if you still insist on giving them a mechanical features, i usually find them preventing weed spread or giving a boost to movement speed.

[@theaerogardenhomesteader]

A couple of thoughts that I'm not sure others have mentioned. Dirt paths get weedy too. Without paths, you have to step into the garden patch to harvest, so that impacts growth (a bit of a disadvantage for having big beds). And without any paths to get to the gardens, a natural path gets worn into the grass and can look unsightly. So while I feel like it is reasonable for stone paths to get dirty, I feel like dirt paths should get shabby and weedy. And places with no paths surrounding the beds should get paths worn into the grass. Looks great, keep up the devlogs, I love watching them.

[@BestLuck568]

I thought the idea with the paths was great, but I had another idea to make it a bit more interesting. I don't know if it fits 100% into the game, but I think it would be good if you have to think about which objects are connected to which beds via the paths, so that you don't just connect everything to everything. For example, I could imagine that certain bonuses cancel each other out when they are connected. So you have to think about which bonuses you use for which bed. I think that could make the whole thing a bit more exciting.

[@the11thboy]

I know it would drastically change the mechanics of the game. But to me, it would be interesting to allow the player to hire people to work on the farm, this could be for very specific tasks such as cleaning. It would * Make the farm feel more alive as people are in the background working * More resource management for funds, you might not want to have to clean as often so you'll take the hit to focus on other things * Different tiers of workers as you strive for a very productive farm Just a thought. Love the devlogs!

[@rockpickable]

as for the dirt. i feel like this should only be visual. the incentive to clean is to have a nicer looking garden. its just a satisfying thing to do, like petting a cat or throwing a stick for a dog. maybe those could also be some nice "buttons to click" that are there only for aesthetics.

[@magnum_dingus]

The combo bonus system makes a lot of sense. There's a story about how the World of Warcraft devs came up with the rested XP system, but long story short: instead of punishing the player for doing something you don't want, you reward them for doing what you do want.

[@pw2020]

Here are some ides, hope these can help: - Path should not only be a way to connect stuff such as building to the plant bed, but also a place to put stuff, maybe cable for artificial light or even useful tools such as seed spreader, put it beside a plant bed inside a path and it can plant the whole plant bed. Place 4 poles at the edge of plant beds in a path and you can place shade on top of the plant bed. - Rather than just buff, path that connect to specific building or facilities have the ability to change the entire functionality of the field. A plant bed connected to a log pile storage, now that bed can be turn into a place to grow Shiitake mushroom in a log. A body of water surrounded by path and a feeding shack, now that place can grow fish. - A path itself can be use to do water management, maybe drain beside the path. If there are season and heavy rain, it can flood so maybe a good drainage system with weather system can be a good addition. - Dirty path increase the possibility of invasive plant to grow into the bed. Better quality path have additional functionality, certain building will only work with certain path. - Combination of plant in a single bed may lead to new buff or increase existing buff. a field of certain plants neighboring another kind of plant beds may add buffs. As you can see, imo path should be more than dividing space, but also chancing the usage of that space, a place to add tools and facilities, a way to add interactivity by divide the beds and add specific functionality to each beds so they benefit each other in a close area. Maybe these are not the kind of vision that you want but I hope these can help you find some ideas for the game :)

[@DrunkenHyena]

Some quick thoughts: 1) Beds, wells, compost bins, etc all need to be connected back to the house by a path to be usable. This gives basic value to having paths. 2) Weeds spread based on adjacent tiles. From quickest spread to slowest: bed tile, lawn tile, dirt path, stone path. Bed tiles spreading to each other easily helps encourage smaller beds. Lawn tiles spreading weeds encourages beds to be encircled (rather than just being connected via #1). Stone paths being a "castle wall" against weeds gives them further value. Tracking and managing buffs feels non-intuitive and too "game"y. I think 1 & 2 above give you enough to make paths valuable.