TSN Presents - Playing To Lose (TSN Documentary)

I do not own this clip and any of the footage, all rights and credit go to TSN, the NHL, and Bell Media.
Anywho, this video comes at a time where two generational talents in Connor McDavid and Jack Eichel are set to make their impact on the NHL by being the top two picks. Are teams like the Sabres and Coyotes ruining their teams to have a better future?
This video is one of the earliest instances in the NHL where a team, the Pittsburgh Penguins, tanked out their season to land a shot at saving the franchise by drafting superstar Mario Lemieux. It shows how the management did it, how bad it was, and the success that lead after drafting Lemieux. If all of this never happened, would the Penguins even exist?
Did the Penguins tank the 1983-84 season? Well watch the above video and prepare to find out!

[@ronfroehlich4697]

My dad took me to a Pens game at the Civic arena when i was a little kid back in 84 and a massive brawl broke out. I never stopped loving hockey

[@seancosgrove1]

Man, if the Pens were trying to lose, and could only clinch the bottom spot in the 81st game, how bad were the Devils if they were actually trying?

[@111highgh]

The schedule back then was 80 games, you num-nuts.

[@seancosgrove1]

@@111highgh numb*

[@Jason_Maier]

@Matt Pizzano you are correct; after said game against the Oilers, Gretzky called the Devils a 'Mickey Mouse' organization.

[@michaelleroy9281]

@@Jason_Maier They sure were in Kansas City and Colorado

[@DisturbedRocks]

I think they were also trying to lose, but they didn't get 66 so now they'll spin the "we never played to lose" narrative.

[@JeffreyJetsKohut]

Mario Lemieux didn't even turn the team around immediately. For the NEXT 4 years they had top 5 draft picks. Craig Simpson 2nd overall in a mediocre 1985 draft, Zarley Zalapski 4th overall in a mediocre 1986 drarft, Chris Joseph 5th overall in a mediocre 1987 draft, and Darrin Shannon 4th overall in a very deep 1988 draft. It wasn't until 1989 that the Penguins were a playoff team. This Penguins team was REALLY REALLY BAD.

[@jab1289]

@JeffreyJetsKohut Obviously, those weren't great picks. They passed on Brian Leetch and Vinny Damphousse for Zarley, Joe Sakic and Luke Richardson for Chris Joseph, and JR and Selanne for Darrin Shannon. However, they used those guys to get players like Barrasso (who they got rid of four years too late because of his contract), Coffey, Ulf, and Francis, so it worked out even better.

[@MaxtheMonster13]

And this is why the NHL introduced the draft lottery

[@toptenguy1]

I'm legit shocked that there is still a standard order draft in the NFL.

[@Jason_Maier]

Actually, it wasn't until 1994 that the NHL introduced the lottery portion of the entry draft (a year after the Senators tanked for Daigle!)

[@emilyfurciniti4429]

I admire that Lou is actually telling the truth the whole time and admitting that they did anything to lose but Eddie constantly denies it.

[@Kinvarus1]

I love that too. Eddie's like No, no we just didn't have a team to get it done and we legit ended up in last place and Lou is the exact opposite and is just like Yeah we tanked to get him and it clearly paid off for them.

[@SuperStrik9]

I respect Lou's honesty. Of course the Pens tanked that year. Even a blind man can see that.

[@ibefullofme]

I feel bad for him, they're obviously both decent people, but Eddie just can't deal with the idea that he did something so out of his character.

[@thenotoriousko6872]

Agreed

[@guerito7571]

Love the Pens and yes they tanked that season. I think they would have been gone 2 years after if they didn't. Mario saved the franchise twice! As a player 1st then part owner after the baldwin debacle. Love Lou's honesty here.

[@MrTCHOSS]

The fascinating thing is that both the Penguins and Devils then won multiple Stanley Cup Titles over the next couple of decades going about it in different ways this 83-84 season.

[@skifusya2814]

During the 1983-84 training camp that preceded the hockey season in question, coach Lou Angotti's 21 year-old son was killed in an auto accident (as a passenger in a car driven by his 20 year-old brother). Remembering this season had to have been particularly painful for him and puts hockey wins and losses in some perspective.

[@Carlosdagama8]

Johnson saved the Pittsburgh franchise 100%. If it was not for him there would be no hockey team in Pitts.

[@lucturcotte6608]

Eddie Johnston also helped out the Pens from the outside in 1991 when as he was the GM of the Hartford Whalers, he dealt Ron Francis to the Pens.

[@patientmental875]

Yes he did, nobody mentions that. He did that on purpose! Eddie to this day is loyal to the Pens!

[@SombraPiloto]

He destroyed my team.

[@pegleg00]

John Cullen was exploding for the Pens at the time.

[@lucturcotte6608]

@@pegleg00 He sure was. I believe around Christmas he was 2nd in points behind Gretzky. Craig Patrick traded him at the right time.

[@MMGJ10]

There's more to it than that though. For some reason Francis was stripped of his captaincy that year too. I can't remember why. Zalapski was also a pretty talented 23 year old d-man, and Cullen was having a 100 point year.

[@mjtt12]

Definition of the Edmonton oiliers for the past 10 years

[@obey2dmax]

Read my mind. But it is tough now because of more teams and tons of factors involved for Oilers to dominate. Stars have to aligned. 🤔✌

[@PBGellie]

Oilers never tanked, they were just bad. Also the oilers were never guaranteed first overall. They just got lucky. Oilers are just a bad organization. Trust me, I’m an oilers fan....

[@thenotoriousko6872]

We didn't lose on purpose we had ethics and McDavid was luck FUCK THE PENGUINS

[@braddocke.hutton7392]

Mark my words the Oilers will be a cup contender in the next 3 to 10 years. You just have to grow a team and that means patients. We just have to do it the long way but now Mcdavid can train the younger players and mold them after the best. We got the best player and he will lead us all the way fuck the naysayers

[@11DNA11]

@@braddocke.hutton7392 They need more than Drai, RNH and McDavid to get a cup. Goaltending and defence isn't there. If they'd be smart. Deal RNH for a real defensive leader and a couple of other assets. I guarantee that if the Oilers offered RNH to Columbus for either Werenski or Jones, they'd pull the trigger.

[@jeffthewhiff]

I vividly remember this, having lived in the Pittsburgh area for many years and being a Pens fan when the team wasn't very good. I sincerely believe that Pittsburgh would not have an NHL team today if it weren't for the team "tanking" on purpose to get a great player like Mario.

[@MarkPentler]

Thanks for the full version of this. I'd only ever seen the short preview.

[@Mlchael839]

+Mark Pentler No problem!

[@BuffaloSabres4L]

This reminds me of everything i had to endure this season as a Buffalo Sabres fan.

[@cjms08]

***** we'll find out good luck

[@Mlchael839]

***** It's a damn shame the lottery is rigged. We all got screwed.

[@fatalmistake1966]

Nate Nowacki Bro, we as Oilers fans just landed McDavid. I feel filthy but it is what it is. I don't even know how to feel :(

[@gregoryvandervinne4509]

Nate Nowacki aaaand you didn't get mcdavid! lololololol

[@gregoryvandervinne4509]

***** Lol

[@adamdesanti6713]

This is a fascinating piece of history. Multiple layers operating here. There's a way to ethically tank your team in a draft year for a generation talent by completely stripping your roster of any and all assets for picks and prospects, we're "rebuilding through the draft" sort of thing. But what seems to have happened with the '83-'84 Pens was that they did all of that and then went beyond to ensure that top pick. The coach was deliberately coaching to lose (4th line against the 1st line, goons on the powerplay, etc) on orders from the GM. Which is where you're getting into almost match-fixing territory, the integrity of the game is at risk. You're DELIBERATELY sabotaging your team. What exacerbated the potential for corruption was that finishing dead last was GUARANTEED the 1st-overall pick. Then there's the whole toxicity afterwards, where you basically sabotaged your team and demoralized all the players to build around a superstar that will take years to develop. At least the coach later on was honest about what they did. Eddie Johnston the GM wasn't. The levels above that of course remain hidden.

[@globalhockeyleague1491]

As a Pens fan, I'm in a love/hate relationship with this decision. I loved it because we got Lemieux, but I also hate it because we cheated by losing on purpose.

[@Jason_Maier]

yeah . . . I remember reading the Penguins were losing so much money, that they were going to be relocated (but I don't recall where) or even contracted (ala, the Cleveland Barons)

[@rewing84]

im the same way

[@breakaway2x]

And if the Pens tried? weren't they still so bad that they'd be last place still? Makes no difference, they got it fair n square just be sucking.

[@NunYa953]

If these guys didn't do this you wouldn't have a hockey team. Mario saved that franchise as a player, then bought the team and made it profitable.

[@CS-ks3yy]

Global Hockey League not cheating

[@Salvatore1268]

What should have been mentioned was, had the penguins won the last game in the 83. 84 season against Jersey, jersey would have gotten Lemieux

[@adamdesanti6713]

I did not know that. That's the biggest red-flag in the entire conspiracy. So you basically have the GM/Coach colluding to THROW the last game of the year using every means at their disposal against the other door-mat to ensure the 1st-overall pick.

[@Salvatore1268]

@@adamdesanti6713 thats correct this was before any draft lottery, I vividly remember listening to that game on the radio

[@Pfsif]

Eddie Johnston can deny and admit the truth in one sentence.

[@mikeyoungblood1642]

Imagine if Lemeiux pulled an Eric Lindros and told Pittsburgh he'd never play for them...

[@abdouldmml]

Forsberg was in that deal so they did ok

[@ryang928]

@R. M ya Lindros would have kept Quebecs team but not the players like Sakic or Forseberg who won a cup the very next year after they left.

[@mpuchar5003]

@theplayboymaster was Lindros Jewish?

[@mr.devil9577]

@R. M you could argue Lemieux was just as bad. He KNEW the pens cheated he should of refused and became a Devil like he was supposed to.

[@Rewindthetimes]

@R. M am a die hard Hartford whalers fan.. and i truly believe to this day my friend, that it is terrible that Quebec and Hartford franchises are not in the Nhl.. both had and still do... die hard fans! Amazing jerseys and logos! I completely agree with u when u say lindross definitely could of helped the nordiques stay in Quebec and possibly win a championship buddy.. its a honor to just get draft into the nhl.. i lost alot of respect for lindross cause of that

[@95PoundMole]

EJ the OG Tank Commander! Protecting kayfabe to this day no less. God bless Grandpa Munster!

[@petermontagnon4440]

AS a goaltender, I have been on teams that were that bad!!! 70 -80 shots a game on some. LOL I was still sweating an hour after the game and that was still after a shower. Frustration was a word that couldn't even begin to describe how I felt. LMAO

[@11DNA11]

But hey. Even if you lose 10-0. Your save percentage is still 90% or better :D

[@Divad6686]

Fun fact, Robert Romano the rookie goalkeeper backstopped the Penguins to 6 of their 16 wins that season yet he only played 18 games. No wonder they sent him down to the minors!

[@fouronetwo813]

This tank is paying off to this day. 36 years later. They're even interviewing EJ in PPG Paints Arena. A beautiful building that would not exist for a great team that would not exist to play in.

[@patrickmcneil9180]

The fascinating thing lost in all this is that despite Lemieux being arguably the greatest player of all time, from the beginning to the end of his playing career, the Devils actually won more Cups than the Penguins.

[@111highgh]

Pittsburgh has 5. New Jersey has 3. You numb-nuts.

[@jakemathews9739]

@@111highgh The post says during Lemieux's playing career buddy.

[@schmingusss]

Do they HAVE to have music in the background for all these documentaries? Will we not be entertained without it?

[@sinister___black7472]

Worth it.

[@codekhalil6437]

What they didn't know at the time was that by drafting Mario, he would save the franchise from relocating/going bankrupt multiple times. He took a massive paycut to come back and play hockey when the team was struggling. The team was teetering on bankruptcy so 66 came in and became an owner. He has saved the team as a player, and as management. No player has meant more to a franchise than Mario Lemiuex.

[@virgokarma3853]

Amen

[@michaelduggan1890]

Mario saved the team when he was drafted and at the end of his career , he saved the team again . He bought the team and kept the team in Pitt. His is a team player .

[@scottcopeland4631]

Mario held the team and the city hostage 3 times. I owe him NOTHING. He has you all. duped.

[@GetBenched2010]

Another thing that has to be addressed about the Penguins prior to 83/84, is that between 1980 and 1982, they were a solid team with strong goaltending in Michel Dion. They went the distance in the first round in 1981 and 1982 with the 2nd best team in the league, (Blues,) and the 2 time defending champions, (Islanders,) losing in overtime in game 5 both years. 1982 was when Eddie realized he was never, ever going to win anything with that core and blew it up, tanked, and got Mario, and the rest is history.

[@jab1289]

The 82 team was a little better, but both teams finished with losing records (they had 73 points in 80-81 and 75 points the next year). After losing to the Isles in the 82 playoffs, EJ did the right thing (although I wonder what would have happened if they get by NYI that year. The Rangers, Nordiques, and Canucks weren't world-beaters).

[@kllbll85]

Great film...

[@GetBenched2010]

The Jets tanked 2 seasons to get a savior of their own. (They blew it in 1980 and drafted Babych over Savard but struck gold with Dale Hawerchuck.) But everyone forgets that one because the Penguins struck diamonds with Mario.

[@america1350]

I thought this was about the Cleveland browns

[@edselguru]

I went to a few Pens games that 83-84 season and I can vouch that the fans (all 6000 or so of us!) DID NOT mind them tanking, er, losing one bit. We were all aware of Lemieux waiting in the wings and we knew what was at stake. And even with Carlyle they were an awful, horrible team.

[@scottcopeland4631]

I went to them all. More enjoyable and affordable than it is now.

[@markbrighton6365]

Same here I'm also a long suffering Sabres fan but all that's going to change know 23 years I been a sabre s fan we are the best fan base in hockey !

[@andrewwright7724]

Is that why you boo your team?

[@markbrighton6365]

Edmonton sucks at least our fans showed up to watch crap hockey yours didn't

[@markbrighton6365]

Your managent a joke you don't deserve mcdavid 4 first overall picks in the last 6 years .

[@markbrighton6365]

I now good move with chirelli if you want a defensemen the sabres will trade you mark pysk for ebele.

[@LegionOfEclaires]

mark brighton Toronto... Just saying...

[@williamrogers7974]

Well, I don't know much 'bout hockey. But, started watching sports about '88 and the Pens were always A good to great team, so it worked, boys!

[@MarkPentler]

As if Bob Errey was going to say "sure we did" given his current role

[@guerito7571]

Nitpick here.. love seeing the old highlights of the pens in Gold but they didn't wear the white helmets in 83-84😋.

[@ms.felonystrutter2472]

When it comes to Bob Errey, I am so love the face in the Red Wings locker room when it was 3-0 in 1995.The Penguins should give the coach a head office position, they screwed him.

[@kulba21]

Funny quirk: The Devils would win more Stanley Cups than Pittsburgh the next 20 years

[@MrsPaul]

+Matt Baker Maybe, but without Mario, the team wouldn't even be here today. That's more important in my eyes.

[@kulba21]

+MrsPaul You're 100 percent right. I was just speaking to the fact New Jersey wasn't really that screwed by not tanking..

[@edselguru]

Even funnier quirk, the Devils made the playoffs in the 87-88 season, before the Pens made the playoffs WITH Mario (88-89)

[@ad5232]

+Matt Baker I didn't see the Devils lifting the Cup the other night.

[@globalhockeyleague1491]

Yeah but now we've got 1 more cup than the Devils, so....

[@Jason_Maier]

So I've watched this before and the vibe I've gotten was: Lou Angotti all but admits to tanking; Eddie Johnston just dances around the question to this day.

[@samueladams5243]

I feel this as a Canucks fan right now

[@broadstreet21]

Except the Canucks have an insane crop of prospects in the pipeline.

[@samuelfrick3475]

Thank You Eddie Johnston!! 83-84 was a awful year. I wasn't born then but I knew this was one of the biggest seasons in franchise history. Even though they lost a bunch of games they drafted Lemiuex and look at them today. Lots of success 3 Stanley Cups Sidney Crosby Evgeni Malkin and a new arena. WOW

[@farscape1714]

Make that 4 Cups!

[@tommyettinger1353]

dont forget jagr at the time amongst others (fleury, letang etc...)

[@SuperStrik9]

Even if it didn't work out and they didn't get Mario, you can at least still see the logic behind it. The way I look at tanking is hate the game, not the player. If you don't like teams tanking change the draft rules.

[@davidford3968]

If EJ had not done that, The Pittsburgh penguins would not exist today. As a lifelong pens fan, and as a kid i played and was my generation of players were called "The Lemieux Boom" for youth hockey in the Pittsburgh area (Im 31 for those that wonder. started playing in 1992) I say Thank you EJ and Merci Mario.

[@davidford3968]

Joe M LMAO!!! I would have too. Maybe it was a bit questionable but without that. the 5 Stanely Cup banners, PPG Paints Arena, and all the kids from this area that play today wouldn't exist because without Number 66, the pens would be have been gone a long time ago

[@elvis55555]

Don't forget to thank Lou

[@SombraPiloto]

That’s a given. What annoys people is that Johnston won’t simply acknowledge what he did to tank the Pens.

[@Jason_Maier]

Weren't there rumors that the Penguins were is such dire financial status that if they hadn't gotten Lemeuix; they would either have moved to Kansas City or folded entirely? And yeah ... at least Lou has admitted to tanking while Eddie just sidesteps it.

[@SuperTugz]

The Kansas City thing was definitely real and was STILL in discussion up until the Pens got the agreement for a new arena in Pittsburgh partially funded by the legalization of gambling in Pennsylvania and the opening of the Rivers Casino. That deal didn't happen until like 2006... To this day people in Kansas City talk about how close they were to getting the Penguins.

[@kareemmoreland9119]

Have to give kudos for Eddie Johnston for agreeing to be interviewed and featured in this documentary. That season mustve been h e double hockey stix even if getting the#1 pick was the reward. Losing in pro sports must be a b!tch, period.

[@111highgh]

The Magnificent One.

[@markstaffieri5732]

Considering that the Devils won 3 Cups with Martin Brodeur, just imagine how much more they could have achieved had Lemieux played in New Jersey? Once can only wonder if the Penguins would have ended up in another city. How cool that the Penguins were owned by the same individual who also had an ownership stake in the San Francisco 49ers. Mario was definitely like Joe Montana for the Penguins.

[@ms.felonystrutter2472]

ROmano was a solid goalie and I LOVED LOVED Michel Dion.

[@mikeyoungblood1642]

I wish Eddie would just ADMIT he tanked! I don't blame him for doing so! It has worked out, 5 cups later! Also, don't be so blatant by trading your best player for nothing

[@barbaradarnell.3802]

And I suppose the draft lottery would prevent the kind of trades that ended up with Guy Lefluer going to Montreal .

[@dilididli2274]

That trade was simply brillant and nobody tryed to tank on that one. Otherwise the king would had said no.

[@michaelleroy9281]

Guy LaFleur would have never played for the Seals anyway

[@Polytrout]

Eddie Johnston years later did push for the lottery system to discourage tanking. Don Cherry got a good laugh from this.

[@toptenguy1]

Senators tanking to draft Daigle. Instant Karma? LOL

[@dilididli2274]

Senator were just so bad at that time. They didn't tanked by decision.

[@robsenz.]

Hardly tanking, that team was awful Brad Marsh was the all-star rep for us that year. enough said.

[@fatalmistake1966]

I feel dirty as an Oiler fan watching this. Its ok I'll wipe my tears away with my McDavid jersey. Go Oilers Go!

[@rypb16]

Fatal Mistake your sarcasm is obvious. 4 out of 6, your team will squander another pick.

[@andrewwright7724]

Lol sick chirp bro?

[@Clenched.Cheeks]

Fatal Mistake Only seven otters signed jerseys came into Edmonton and I got one!!

[@LegionOfEclaires]

Fatal Mistake Don't worry, giving the previous track record, there is a strong possibility the McDavid will never grow into that player everyone expects him to be...

[@Clenched.Cheeks]

Legion Of Eclaires That's a very scientific opinion you've proclaimed. Everyone should take your view seriously based on the tantamount evidence you have produced.

[@cobeetrice]

I would have set the rink on fire if It meant getting Mario.

[@frantisekvtelensky820]

This is not only about lose games on purpose, but also about lose true spirit of sport itself. To me it is disgusting, no matter what Pens organization brought to ours, Czech hockey (Jágr, Straka, etc...) in the future. And I'm sure, that Mario, Jágr, Crosby etc., they all would have been successful almost everywhere, cause they were or still are simply great players.

[@stpbasss3773]

Well yeah they would have had the same impact on any team, the Pen's needed these players not the other way around.

[@Falconforge89]

Had nothing to do with spirit of sport. It had to do with keeping the franchise alive. You can’t have a spirit if you’re deceased

[@ChristineCAlb1]

So glad Lemieux stayed with the same team his whole career. Nobody does that anymore :( I’m sure he would have been great in New Jersey too.

[@MrsPaul]

As underhanded as this was, in the long run, I'm glad we did it. The Pens wouldn't exist today if we hadn't.

[@NobleDemonTim]

Even though the Penguins did not introduce the sport of hockey to me, tanking of this magnitude reminds me too much of the time the Houston Rockets tanked for Olajuwon.

[@TL2354]

You didn’t do anything

[@lonnyfuller5806]

At least they are honest they used the system to their advantage The NFL has the same system today

[@NerolNiethsreg]

Yea but teams like Cleveland don't need to tank they can play their hardest and still lose miserably

[@DNSKansas]

The Penguins would have been in Seattle, Atlanta, Ottawa or Saskatoon within three years had they not drafted Lemieux

[@Irishmule169]

Let’s Go Blues !!! You guys didn’t have it bad at all...but now we’ve got the Cup !!!

[@michaelleroy9281]

I remember that Saskatoon Saskatchewan thing in 1983 The Blues were so close to being no more

[@TL2354]

They’ve got a Cup. You had zero to do with it

[@aaronjohnson3463]

Mario had the greatest season of any player in history 199pts. Yes yes yes I realise Gretzky did the 200 pt thing twice but he had a stacked oilers team just look how many are in the Hall meanwhile look at how few of the pens from that era are in the Hall.

[@broadstreet21]

Lemieux has a strong case to be better than Gretzky. He can match Gretz's hockey sense and vision, but is bigger, faster, and better with the puck. However he just never had the same level of influence on the game.

[@defeatignorance8681]

@@broadstreet21 The ONLY reason Gretzky had more influence is because he brought hockey to the US. Had he never been traded to the Kings hockey in the US would be 20 years behind, if ever what it is now. He just came along first. Had Lemieux been first, he would've done exactly what Gretzky did for hockey in the States. Mario is without a doubt the greatest player to ever lace up the skates. 160 points in SIXTY games while battling cancer and receiving radiation treatments. He would've destroyed Gretzky's record that year.

[@broadstreet21]

@@defeatignorance8681 Not really. Before Gretzky was traded, he was a cultural Canadian icon unlike anyone ever seen, given the massive endorsement campaign surrounding him, the nation-wide following his Oilers engendered. And Lemieux played his entire career in the United States, beginning in 1984, four seasons before Gretzky landed in LA. Had there been no Gretzky, everything else remaining the same, I'm not so sure that Lemieux would have garnered the same kind of following - unless he played in Canada first, then got traded to the United States. Even so, Michael Barnet was the real force behind Gretzky's marketing influence.

[@aaronjohnson3463]

@@111highgh pardon me it still doesn't change the point that Gretzky had a stellar cast around him. Put Mario on that oilers team same thing happens

[@aaronjohnson3463]

@@111highgh your point is? Talking about points and stacked oilers so brother comprehend first before the drivel.

[@xGamble]

Wait.. this isn't about the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[@MrsPaul]

+TyKay HD Oh snap!

[@MetalHorrorGamer]

TyKay HD you spelled Edmonton Oilers wrong.

[@joelbeaudoin2761]

Metal_Horror_Gamer dam we must realy suck at playing to loose because we are in the playoffs

[@CS-ks3yy]

TyKay HD your comment aged badly

[@kevinmcrae3354]

Gamble Hahahahahahaha No actually the leafs just suck naturally every single season

[@patientmental875]

EJ is solely responsible for the Penguins existing today

[@floxy20]

All true, but that's why they changed the rules. Now there is the Lottery which helps a bit .

[@rg6093]

"HELLO!, you play to win"

[@motogig7803]

I guess if you showed up at the rink with a stick and a jersey you might of had a shot to be a penguin.

[@TNO73]

Looking atthis I feel sorry for Michel Dion in the Pens net. Oh & BTW you know who was picked 50 pots later? Patrick Roy. A guy who won 4 Cups & 3 Conn Smythes. None of this is to say choosing Mario was a bad idea.

[@666finnegan]

It's good we that we have a draft system where you're not automatically rewarded for failure.

[@theshawnmurphyjournal2946]

The Oakland Seals drafted Guy Lafluer and because the G.M had no clue traded this pick to Montreal Canadians for Ralph Backstrom , I think future G.Ms learned a lot from mistakes like this years ago and if they had of drafted Lafluer would the team have stayed longer in Oakland

[@michaelleroy9281]

I could just imagine Guy LaFleur refusing to put on the Seals jersey in Montreal ( where the 71 draft was)

[@bb-gc2tx]

Pens helped oilers win cup in 1984 by trading them Kevin mcleland he was gritty player oilers needed to compete with islanders in 1984 and actually scored the goal that won game 1 of 84 finals 1-0. The epic grant fuhr shutout game

[@karandeosingh2356]

I hate the draft lottery. The Penguins revolutionalise the game!.

[@sofrknasm]

Sure some are fine with just making the playoffs but I think most consider second place the first loser. And that's how competitive elite sports is played, then and now. Tank, rebuild or seller call it what you want.

[@statesecretmusic]

I know it could never happen. But as a soccer fan, I wish there was a relegation system in North American sports where you could avoid shit like this and actually make the bottom teams to fight for survival

[@kozmeetorez]

Dirty Jerz It would still be hard to tell who's a bottom team. You can be working hard as hell and still be the worst team in the league.

[@cityhawk]

You tell me that I get a chance at a once in a generation player, a true legend, one of the greatest goal scorers in the history of the NHL, will help me win two Stanley Cups, and all I have to do is tank for one season. I’ll take that any day of the week and then some. No shame in doing what’s best for your franchise in the short term, if I reap bigger and better benefits in the long term. Wouldn’t we all?

[@davidford3968]

As a life long hockey fan and resident of Pittsburgh, I agree. I probably would have never played hockey or fallen in love with the game had it not been for number 66. I was born in 1986 and in 1990 I kind of knew what was what when it came to watching hockey and I fell in love with the game and got to marvel in wonder with what the penguins were doing on the ice

[@danmatasa6648]

but sucks when the teams that actually try win keep losing

[@MaxWraith]

As long as the players don’t have anything to do with this, I actually don’t have a big issue with this. This practice still goes on today in several sports (including ones with draft lottery). Bad teams often look to the future and make moves for the future, like trading away established quality veteran players for draft picks or prospects.

[@ronfroehlich4697]

Eddie Johnson played behind Bobby Orr. He knew a generational talent when he saw one

[@JTDutch]

I don't know who to believe here. Johnston isn't owning up to any form of tanking whatsoever. Angotti was let go as head coach after the '83-84 season and never was a head coach in the NHL again, so I can imagine there's some resentment he has toward Johnston. I think they're both full of shit. Looking at the record, the big drop off for the Penguins was from '81-82 (where they made the playoffs and almost knocked off the Islanders) to '82-83 (tied for the worst record in the NHL). The Penguins were just as bad in '82-83 as they were in '83-84. Did they feel they needed to tank for two seasons to get Lemieux? Why were they definitely tanking in '83-84 but not in '82-83? They had the same personnel. The trade of Carlyle turned out to be a good one for the Penguins. Carlyle wasn't nearly as good in '83-84 as he was in '82-83. Was he in on the tank? The Penguins got Mantha and used the 1st round pick to draft Doug Bodger, so they ended up with two 20+ minute defensemen who were younger than the one 20+ minute defenseman that they traded away. Bad teams make trades like this all the time and are never accused of tanking. It's called "rebuilding." What's wrong with that???

[@metalmarty3948]

Don Cherry said Buffalo tanked in 2014 to get McDavid and was pissed about it saying Buffalo got exactly what they deserved by not getting him. It wasn't guaranteed but obviously finishing last gave them a better chance to get him. If it's true that they did tank, then they didn't deserve to get him and Karma's a bitch. Being an oiler fan, I'm glad they didn't get him. It's not right was the penguins did, but I guess it paid off.

[@michaelleroy9281]

Don Cherry can say anything, whether it makes sense or not

[@michaelleroy9281]

Oilers fan , I feel sorry for you , you only had Gretzky

[@dereklasker5350]

Is it me or does that devils coach sound like vin diesel

[@dr.loomis4221]

If healthy I'd think he would of passed Gretzky in goals

[@VisualTedium]

it's okay if the Astros and cubs do it tho

[@stpbasss3773]

And every bad NBA team the past ten years lmao they straight up embrace tanking in the NBA

[@edboy484]

Okay, but imagine The Jersey Shore but with an amazing hockey player. That's the bullet we dodged thanks to the Pens tanking

[@SuperTugz]

That's actually a really funny thought lol... But originally located in East Rutherford and now in Newark, it's not quite the "Jersey Shore" vibe goin' on there as it's part of New York City's larger market with the Rangers and Islanders.

[@hockey_all_star5895]

I do this in nhl 19 franchise mode lol

[@stpbasss3773]

Hell yeah lmao

[@ScaryRevenant]

Hockey_All_Star5 Ha, I usually just trade a super high value player for top 5 picks

[@peterhamilton557]

Geez, I wonder what Bill Belichick would have done in this situation??? LMFAO

[@abdouldmml]

Are we acting like "a rebuild" isn't the same thing?

[@tommclarty17]

Why is it controversial to admit you tanked to make sure you landed a player who ended up being in the top five best of all time.....?

[@thomastuohy829]

When i go to a game, i pay to see a winner. Professional athletes who dont try to win should be in jail.

[@tommclarty17]

Thomas Tuohy thank you, Thomas. Very cool!

[@111highgh]

@@thomastuohy829 Go fart yourself out of town.

[@MMGJ10]

@@thomastuohy829 The players DID try. No one ever accused them of tanking. Bullard had a 50 goal season too.

[@giovannidibravato5576]

of course the Penguins deliberately lost games during the 83-84 season

[@thescrivener8516]

Lou and EJ saved a franchise.

[@Falconforge89]

This move by the pens literally saved the franchise

[@Southboundpachyderm]

Yeah, that's kind of the whole point of the documentary, that the problem with the draft is that it encourages teams to tank in order to get better odds. So yeah, it saved the franchise, but maybe it wouldnt have ever needed to get to the point of the franchise needing saved if the draft and how players are selected to teams is changed.

[@Falconforge89]

@@Southboundpachyderm what would be your solution? Also the penguins were in dire straits off of the ice. No lemiuex, no more Pittsburgh penguins

[@tommclarty17]

Of course Farber is acting like this was bad. No Mario, no cups. And probably no Crosby in Pittsburgh, too.

[@ckendall67]

- I guess this is where the Leafs are headed now.....

[@aramondehasashi3324]

I feel bad for that coach. He's the main reason they won Mario and he gets screwed over never to coach again? Did they at least keep in the organisation for awhile?

[@broadstreet21]

He's not, the GM was the main reason. Johnson was giving him lousy players, then telling him to lose.

[@WuTangVanBC]

Edmonton... they should have all their last 10 years of picks revoked and lottery them off to all other teams.

[@ms.felonystrutter2472]

I am SOOO HAPPY the Devils DID NOT draft Mario, or get a chance...I love how my Devils were built. Lou did it the RIGHT way

[@mpuchar5003]

I agree. That left-wing lock and trap defense made for some really exciting games!

[@nikantropov3165]

mpuchar who cares about entertainment when you win three cups in 8 years?

[@mpuchar5003]

@@nikantropov3165 Everyone except the Devils apparently... Which is why they're 27th in attendance. You do realize that the NHL is a business, right? They won those cups with a half empty arena and it put them $280 million in debt. You probably think that's a good trade-off though.

[@nikantropov3165]

mpuchar what’s your source that shows they had poor attendance during that time? Because watching playoff games from those years, their arena was sold out so idk if you’re just talking out of your ass or what

[@nikantropov3165]

mpuchar just checked. The meadowlands arena seated about 19000 for nhl games and from 1994-2003, the devils lowest average regular season attendance was around 15000. I’m not a math genius but I’m pretty sure 15000 is more than half of 19000. That’s just a guess though

[@broadstreet21]

Too bad Lou never got to coach again. He probably could have done well, but he was given a lousy team and explicitly instructed to lose.

[@hunterlehman3056]

How exactly was this allowed to go on?

[@michaelleroy9281]

Just to the end of 83- 84 season

[@walterb7358]

Where’s the rule?

[@bb-gc2tx]

theres a movie here. they made great movie called air about nike signing jordan to a shoe deal why not make a movie about this

[@douglasschultz9808]

Can't believe the Sixers lowered themselves to this level of losing.

[@111highgh]

Basketball sucks shit.