Zero Countersteer Drift: is it ACTUALLY Faster?

[@ThatSlowBRZZ]

"Its a preference of most to have controlled oversteer, than it be a surprise" finally someone understands and puts it into words!!

[@AdamKueflef]

I agree. Especially in winter with snow and ice i find its easier to control slides then to avoid them all together. Controlled Chaos is Easier then uncontrolled normality

[@stutterpunk9573]

This is me whoever ANYONE fans on porches handling. Yeah it's great until you say hi to the local oak tree

[@ThatSlowBRZZ]

@@stutterpunk9573 hahahaha I agree, but some Porsches can get sideways and pull out if you got the skill for it

[@mc_redspace]

I have seen a lot of "Grip vs Drift" videos and... I am still waiting to see a video where they add "vs Both" A technique where you mainly grip but also drift in some corners because it could give you an advantage This is the first video I've seen that came close to it and it taught me stuff, thank you very much

[@jorisramanauskas780]

His channel should have something like that, I believe.

[@WizNick1532]

Drip?

[@BlasterJunos]

Unless you're planning on time attack, Grip would almost always be the way to go. Not only does it use more of the tire for carrying you through the corner and accelerating, you also don't kill the tires after the first lap. Tire management is crucial in racing, which is why you don't see intentional drifts in tarmac racing

[@somedudenameddes0121]

Watch the slip angle video

[@Delimon007]

That's called using slip angle. . . It's already a thing that all top drivers use. . .

[@Blackwing2345635]

But most importantly - zero-counterstering drift feels sooo right, when you have a clean corner exist on straight wheels xD Also it "felt right" to me only on dirt with powerful cars, on tarmac it feels slow (and usually after pulling this you see new rears in front of you), while someting that is not overpowered, well, lacks power to pull out fast enough.

[@aninnocent1544]

slow tarmac corners are fine (as we also see on the vid) because you do have the power to pull out on lower gears, but yeah, anything fast is better taken normally. also that's what we see in WRC, they drift slow corners and take fast ones normally. They're also on tight roads where slow corners are abundant, so that's why it happens a lot

[@BM-13_KATYUSHA]

You can use it as a last second failsafe. When you fail to brake on time just scandi-flick and pray to the spirit of Collin McRae to keep you safe from the wall 🙏

[@powerpaul1423]

The description of emergency-brake

[@logiarplayz9029]

The problem with this entire concept is the terminology itself. A drift by definition is causing oversteer at the entrance of a corner. What the drift car was shown doing is drifting into the corner, but powersliding out of the exit of the corner. If you watch the test with the two consecutive hairpins, you can see that the drift car won because it was actually gripping up well before the exits of the corner, allowing the advantage of higher entry speeds, and being pointed towards the apex sooner. Once you have the car pointed towards the apex, its up to your car control to decide if you're going to slowly powerslide out of the corner, or regain grip as soon as possible for maximum acceleration out of the corner.

[@Kodunkion]

This is how I always imagined it, drifting carries consistent momentum which makes it the best in low speed corners, whereas grip driving needs braking initially but because of that it slowly builds up momentum past the apex and zooms out

[@languaj]

He’s back! Btw… a video on managing tire temps/durability for the duration of a race would be interesting

[@impreza0109]

to add to the "rally drivers slide because it's safer and easier to control", this was also prevalent in the 86 vs 86 final battle in initial D. Shinji was so used to the course that he can practically "see" the other end of the corner being blocked in view by the grass and trees and can actually grip out of the corners, whilst Takumi had a hard time keeping up with him at the start.

[@DrR1pper]

The drift method produces more total cornering force from the car but a much larger percentage of that larger cornering force vector is pointing rearwards versus grip method (i.e. less drift method which is less yaw-angle), adding significant drag to the car and the engine does not have the power to overcome this additional drag in anything faster than slow speed hairpin corners and so it is slower on average.

[@bullet_miata]

Your engine doesn’t need as much power if you set the rear to slide off power.

[@Appletank8]

@@bullet_miata If your rears are sliding, then you are going to have less power available to power out of the corner.

[@nade5557]

Hate to be that guy but tyres actually provide less grip/force once you reach a certain angle. If you are drifting, the tyres are already past that limit, so this produces less total force compared to standard cornering. The reason why it's faster in hairpin corners is because the limiting factor for those isn't grip (like regular corners) but yaw rate, aka how fast you can rotate the car to face the exit, so drifting will get the nose pointed towards the exit a lot sooner at the expense of maximum grip, which becomes better as a tradeoff the sharper the corner.

[@moristar]

Initial D states very clearly that Grip is faster than Drift. A EVO IV driver says that and he is right. It's just that he was not ready to go as deep as Takumi.

[@Sosa3mg]

Congratulations for 100k subs! 🎉🎉🥳🥳

[@TSRB]

Thank you!

[@TheAndrewlolz]

Your commentary during 5:53 The Race is immersive af. A lot more thrilling than real life F1 commentators 😂 but great video! Really informative 👍🏻

[@uncleweirdbeard86]

Ive been playing racing games for most of my life. Started with Need for Speed High Stakes, but eventually found my way to sim racing in Grand Turismo 2. Along with that I have played many other racing sims such as MX unleashed, a few rally sims, Extreme Tokyo Racing, ect. The zero countersteer drift goes by many names. 4 wheel drifting, speed drifting, and the 1 I heard the most was "cheating" in the Forza community back in the day. It can be super effective, and not just with AWD cars. I have used it to drift FWD cars as part of a bet, RWD cars such as my speed drifter builds, and even on motorcycles. Using the technique comes almost second nature to me. Its great for when you come in too hot or if the opponent is running a blocking line that makes their car seem 3 cars wide. Like with any technique, its only as good as the person executing it. This is why the Forza bois of old use to complain that it was cheating. Because it is required for AWD cars a lot more and since they were rocketing ahead coming out of the turn, they saw it as unfair to use AWD. But the problem was never that AWD was unfair, but rather the technique of the opponent wasnt very good. It took time, but eventually I showed a few players how to be not only a better drifter, but a better racer. And it all started by winning a bet

[@Luka-gf1uv]

Sim racing in gran turismo? What are you talking about?

[@uncleweirdbeard86]

@@Luka-gf1uv Yes, because it was classified as a sim racer back when it came out and at the time, it was THE sim racer. The popularity of the engine that ran the grew to the point other companies started using similar engines and even straight up copied the game. Despite the unrealistic crash physics, it was the most realistic simulator on the market. Nowadays that title goes to BeamNG Drive, which not only gas realistic handling physics for the cars, but also has soft body mechanics and simulates each component of the vehicle for the most realistic crashes in video games. No need to write all this down, there won't be a test on it

[@ZenDriver3299]

​@@uncleweirdbeard86Gran Turismo always be the goat, i like so much, i play Asseto Corsa Competizione and isnt different of GT Sport if is i can change the setup but when you have a driving style is the same

[@crimsonkoyori8054]

fire video. subscribed, liked, commented, clicked the bell, shared it to my family, played it at my grandma's funeral (she was resurrected), this video cured my stage four terminal cancer, my depression, and fixed my unrelenting habit to call shitting while constipated a souls-like experience. cant wait to see more

[@MotivationExMe]

Awesome video :) The trick is to live in between the two techniques. Never full drift, never full grip. Ride that edge for as long as you can until your nerves give out.

[@excite.winters]

In between drift and grip is such a meme now 😂 it screams I have no idea what I'm talking about, next you're gonna call it slip angle

[@MotivationExMe]

@@excite.winters As long as you feel good bro, you do you.

[@DudeMcPunchy]

Can we PLEASE see that lap again but with both grip and drift where ever it's faster?

[@finn_r34b]

the best is the mix of both

[@d3athstreet990]

I feel like whether or not you drift should depend on the corner you’re taking.

[@MedievalRally]

Great video with amazing visuals to show the differences! Speaking solely from a Rally perspective. Drifting is bit like jumps. Sure they look cool and it's fun but it's not always the fastest solution depending on the stage section you're in. I found I greatly improved my times by reducing the amount of times I would drift. If I can stay in grip even in a hairpin, except really acute ones, I'll avoid drifting. As the video did a great good job at showing. There are certain situations where a drift can out perform a car that maintains grip. The real key to getting killer times is knowing when you'll benefit from a drift (a short and controlled one ideally) versus slowing down enough to maintain grip throughout the corner. I don't think there's a one size fits all advice for this. You need to be familiar with the car you're driving and how it handles on the surface you're on.

[@iamhugry]

During a drift you go slower and go sideways which actually gives you more space to see plus you enter the corner earlier view wise and thus can see more ahead of you AND during a drift you can easier come to a standstill because all 4 tires will grip sideways the moment they stop spinning AND the car is 90% of the time in the correct angle in the corner

[@Phantomdude]

I loved that part in initial D where one of the guys looked at takumi and yelled "ZERO COUNTEER DORIFTU??!??!?!"

[@eagle_2351]

The art of rally is knowing when to drift, when to grip, and when to go flat out. Overall, grip will in most cases be better overall, but there are some situations that taking the drift will be better.

[@myr_wlk698]

What is flat out?

[@twapsgelacio]

Flooring the gas. Just zoom.​@@myr_wlk698

[@MahadShahzad08]

Bunta was such a god at driving that he for the first time test drove an AWD car and mastered Countersteer drift and maybe that was the reason Takumi got smoked... BTW great video I tried this with the Lan Evo but I still need practice 😅

[@dawidnabozny1437]

These videos must take so much work to get done

[@TSRB]

Too much 😅

[@tabryis]

Love the added collision between the wrx and the 86

[@Bav-s30z]

you can say that the wrx 86'd the 86

[@Mitjiva]

Excellent video, well put together, good explanations, editing commentary, GG ! Also, generally love the format.

[@VGT1]

this is some high quality content im ngl im loving it

[@slof69]

noticed it recently on gran turismo 7 with the audi tt race thats in sport mode right now ive never flicked it in and just used brakes to turn it

[@MigotRen]

So in essence, its a case by case decider. while in theory static grip is always higher on a solid surface than sliding, practically, the offloading of the front tires and the additional rotational momentum can help the car with tight corners.

[@Professor_Finesser]

We also need to consider that the tires in the 80/90s weren’t that great compared to todays standard

[@that_tanuka]

i love the music used in the race, fleetwood mac ftw

[@domino-86]

nice driving bro. u pretty much got everything correct, i find that 4 wheel drifting is helpful in getting the rotation you need for a lot of corners on a touge without losing too much momentum, though on a track drifting tends not to help at all most of the time.

[@excite.winters]

Nice comment bro, you got pretty much everything correct but touge is a lot slower and generally relies less on power.

[@domino-86]

@@excite.winters exactly

[@TheAngeryMan]

Awesome video, like always,, and congrats for 100k!

[@LeitoAE]

This technique is usefull for some corners and powerful cars. Cars that in rwd configuration have problems with maintaining rear wheels from burnouts at corners exits. Low power cars will not benefit from 4wd systems. Also need to take into consideration grip level. Also in some corners you were overspeeding in entries causing "drift braking", so exit speed was poor. I was expecting some nice, 0 counter steer, low angle drifts, but here there was typical Subaru overspeeding to impress chicks that is mostly causing their boxer engines to die because of oil not reaching sump 😂.

[@bFOURdwZEROlf]

This is all about which corner deserves it. It's a momentary technique. It takes a master to know when. :)

[@kanine328]

Your music selection is sick mate! I know you used to get to the raves 😂

[@luukschuurman3680]

Congrats on the 100K subs mate

[@Netosilvagames]

This means I've been doing this unconsciously in games with awd cars, and never noticed it was an actual technique?!

[@donkey2340]

Hey I know the guy who made windows breakcore, cool guy :)

[@pistonfury]

You jinxed drift on the race

[@OgamiItto70]

This all depends on what is meant by "drifting." Since about the early-to-mid 2000's, "drifting" has come to mean what was previously known as "powersliding." In the parlance of racing drivers _before_ the advent of _The Fast and the Furious_ and "drifting" events, it meant driving a car through corners with all four tires at the slip angle of maximum cornering/accelerating/braking grip. This was called a "four-wheel drift." And for most of that time, the racing tires available were bias-ply, which necessitates a larger slip angle for maximum grip than radials. So drift was often noticeable to spectators and movie/TV cameras, if you were looking for it. In practice, if you four-wheel-drift your car through a corner _right on_ the maximum-grip slip angle, yes, you should be getting through that corner the fastest your car can, assuming you used the correct racing line and entry speed. If, however, you just pitch the thing in sideways, sliding _way_ past the proper slip angle, you're just going to slow yourself down and burn up your tires in the process. Remember to consider that generating maximum cornering grip entails getting all the _tires_ at the maximum-grip slip angle, not necessarily holding the steering wheel straight ahead. The question was, "Zero Countersteer Drift: is it ACTUALLY Faster?" The answer to that is, "It might be, but not necessarily." The real answer you're looking for as a racer or sim racer is, _"Four-wheel_ drifting, done correctly, _is_ actually faster." (Rare exceptions not usually found on roadracing tracks might include special situations like turns so tight that "bootlegger J's" or "handbrake turns" are required to negotiate them.)

[@intensedabberoniJG]

Thank you for your comment.

[@bullet_miata]

Something VERY important to note: Generally speaking, the less grip you have available, the more drift angle you need for a faster lap time. In high grip environments, a 4 wheel drift is slower than a regular grip technique.

[@casperSQ]

Cheers for the 100k!

[@mahuba2553]

the tighter the corner the more efficient it will be to have the car point towards the inside of the corner

[@samuuh331]

Congrats for 100k❤

[@TSRB]

Thanks 😄

[@Raysboostin]

I don't think this race was a relevant test. As you say, the zero counter steer method is common with rally. So why did you run the test with an underpowered stock wrx? In your own analysis you repeatedly said the car didn't have enough power to hold the drift. Rerun your test with an actual rally car and I believe your outcome will be different.

[@GingerNingerGames]

Not gonna lie, you're probably right, but the two comparison races, the drift car looked like the driver was having trouble maintaining the correct line, and while it's difficult to do, that would make a lot of different, the corner cutting and things are staples of these cars when operating on the edge of the power band in a slide, because you can't just foot down more to change the line. I think that's most of the problem here, and something that wasn't addressed, Rally cars are usually pushing 300-500Hp, where the bog standard models are lucky to get 200. Having that extra right foot available to change the line without adjusting the steering is important. Good video and still very informative.

[@TSRB]

they were sliding off line because the tyres were overheating

[@GingerNingerGames]

@@TSRB On the first corner? Missed the apex by a car width. The way I was taught to drive these cars fast is slow in, fast out, mind you, that was on dirt, so I imagine there's going to be differences considering the grip levels. I'm not an expert on car control by any means, but I do drive one of these cars IRL, so I'm offering my experience as a talking point. It's easy to get caught up in throwing the car into the corner to make it slide, and also judging the right speed to get the right slide, there's a reason rally is hard. All that said in retrospect, you're not hugely overshooting the apex's, so I don't think there's too much speed, but we all know it's a fine art. Cheers for replying.

[@mintypot]

finally i can make a comment on your video that isnt a bump

[@CyarSkirata]

I know in games with a decent handling model and tire heat, outside of doing it just for style points I mostly drift on tarmac if I'm attacking a corner super hard in order to make use of a gap I think won't exist long enough to grip it. Doesn't come up often but it's good to stay in practice for the few moments it does.

[@SeanQuinn4]

I think this taps into the beginnings of neutral steer and extreme trail braking. Pros do most of their cornering with the pedals, not the wheel 👍

[@fatih3.0r]

1:00 in the minds or subaru Fanboys: Looking at my Subaru Legacy 3.0R sedan in my garage HEY thats meee ^^ also congrats at 100k man you deserved it

[@crilauriola]

did you use a 22b vs a wrx sti?

[@pistonfury]

It's not about the weight as much as it is about that it is front engined, a Gallardo would be slow 4 wheel drifting. It's all about rotating around the engine.

[@02wc21]

Great video！！❤ btw I wonder how you record the compair videos ,is that you used two replay ghost at the same time or what？ it looks awesome🤯🤯

[@micheljackson09]

Believe it or not but max is able to aggressively rotate his car through the corners leading to light sliding, not drifting but sergio is unable to adapt to that characteristic of the rb car relying more heavily on maintaining grip. Fun bit of trivia

[@cookie6443]

As a rally and RSF RBR fan, drifting/being just over the limit is faster but the margin for error is a lot smaller. As the rally saying goes, "in order to finish first, first you have to finish".

[@thomasisready]

How ZERO COUNTERSTEER DRIFTING makes you FASTER simracing...

[@mazz1514]

Let’s go love the vids so hype on the new upload

[@einfachderheiligehelmut]

Congratulations for 100k subs

[@eggdog1227]

Would love a transcript of the music used, all bangers :)

[@samiraperi467]

The truth is that the absolute fastest style is grip with *just a bit* of drift due to how rubber works on tarmac. Even WRC cars drive basically grip when the tarmac is clean and dry.

[@WhoopEaterz]

that white gc8 is a spitting image of mine

[@TSRB]

Cool car

[@tippiebekfast]

I am very jealous, I'd love a Type RA on Speedline Corse 2013c's

[@WhoopEaterz]

the RA's are nice, the low wing is timeless and makes the car look a bit more sleak

[@WhoopEaterz]

​@@tippiebekfast mine sits on like a speedline mistral rep I dont think its an original speedline just because of the build quality

[@lusciouslunk]

These techniques can be loosely applied to FWD cars too, especially if you clutch in for the first third of the corner

[@AngeloFutad]

Will you be able to set a record time if you can do both in certain situations where one technique is faster than the other?

[@KiryuDojimasan]

You’re backkkk

[@TuttuTheDog]

Damn that 100K under your name looks majestic

[@KayoMichiels]

0:31 Was that the Windows 95 boot up tune i heard in the background?

[@las10plagas]

you just didn't do it right, duh! and if you gave the drift car blue paint and bronce wheels, drift would have won!

[@potassium4822]

From my experience I am gaining on this method only in old shitbixes in rwd because it helps control the car in long fast downhill corner that leeds strait to very long and sharp corner (I am a bemng driver)

[@Shadowdarknessone]

can you try this on tight touge courses? would be intrested to see what happens on the road and not the track

[@TSRB]

Same result!

[@griplimit]

For the most part it comes down to physics, static vs. dynamic friction.

[@martixak]

Congrats for 100k 🎉🎉🎉 :linushappy:

[@TSRB]

Thanks bro

[@slippery_penguin86]

hey great video! What track is this it looks really fun

[@bruce_pain]

Damn, I was lied to before by a cheeky guy in bandana

[@GHOST01LE]

i think the zero counter steering will work longer if the car that's is reving to the moon aka 11-13k rpm or more horsepower

[@bigdbandit64]

Try this again with a higher horse power car and the drift might benefit more from the power increase

[@michaelgoldberg4000]

Uh, add more power to accelerate better out of faster corners?

[@driftmad1839]

how about a lap which uses the ideal amount of both... js saying. also i find that this technique can also be used in low power rwd cars with high ish tyre pressure, especially on corners that have lots of camber and elevation changes and nailing the apex is crucial.

[@okamesnt]

this video just got there when the issued pop'd out, I am in a difficult decision of full grip or using both zero countersteer drift and grip, it's an r34 at touge, I used to main zero countersteer drift but, just noticed that grip seems faster, I was never really sure tho, now I am trying to go full grip, but grip is really a challenge after years of only zero countersteer drift, I am still not sure what should I go with

[@kltsoi5860]

Is there any help by the AYC system on a Lancer Evo when doing the zero-countersteer? Saw it being done on Best Motoring a few times on Dunlop corner/ last corner and the exit speed seems not much different to others

[@NANOmasion]

Thanks for this great video, can I get the subaru link?

[@hexhiaa]

lots of cope in the comments here lmao

[@Tishan01]

How do I slide In a corner? Whenever I go in a corner my car comes out of it and in the gaurdrail

[@TSRB]

Could be a number of things. Depends on what exactly is happening. You mean the car suddenly snaps, and turns into the guard rail? Probably turning the wheel too much

[@Tishan01]

@@TSRB imagine the car going into the apex but instead of going around the corner it goes to the opposite side of the lane and into the gaurdrail

[@TSRB]

Maybe a lower entry speed and less throttle. Sounds like you're going in too fast and just slamming on the throttle, meaning you have almost no grip

[@Tishan01]

@@TSRB it worked. Lower the speed worked, I held down the brake for like 4 seconds, release and they I went flying through the corner. Thanks. I am a subscriber too thanks

[@1SM4h]

"Zero-countersteering drift", it's mean on literature as slip angle technique. Drift use tractive effort AND lean angle, to turn the vehicle. MotoGP yesterdays, use this technique for all turns. On the past, riders like Casey Stoner, use drift to be faster. On all cases, the answer his: where had more power? On Stoner era, the Ducati had a lot of power. The V4 had a great performance on a straight line. But the higher torque, make it unstable and harder to ride, in turns. So drift around the corner, was the way who makes Stoner faster. A higher speed on the turn exit, make a higher average speed on the straight line, and a higher top speed to the next turn. On same way, old times F1, with a lot of torque, make it easier to lost control. So drift was faster. Whe we can predict what's before the next turn, like a public road, the pivot of the questions are the car, and the speed. In a low power car, in low or mid speeds, drift was faster. At high speeds, stock tires hasn't a good performance. In other words, hasn't good grip. Than, slip angle was the fastest way, because had less power loses. A high power car, had most times too, tires with high grip. In this situation, at low speed we don't need a special turn technique. The high power compensates itself on a straight line. At mid speeds, slip angle was faster. Not much loses, and a lot of reserve power. At high speeds, drift was faster, because we have power, so drift losses are insignificantly. A low power car vs a high power car, the maximum possible speed, defined the winner. On dirt, ice, snow, gravel, and other low grip situations, high or low power, slow or fast, don't change so much the needed techniques. The poor road prediction, and low grip, make the drift faster on average situations. But how less power, grip was faster. Less losses, more power to accelerate the vehicle. So low power cars, drift on rally, but not ever.

[@hhaste]

Irrelevant to the video but what car do you own in real life? I just like cars in general

[@TSRB]

BMW Z4!

[@acethemain7776]

hey wheres the video of you going to a car meet in ur bmw z4?

[@mgtowphilippines8164]

Do you think skill is a big factor? I meant you can be faster in grip within 3 momthsnof practice but you can only be faster in drift if you practice for years?

[@Sorcerer_Lynx]

What about zero contersteer vs slip angle ?

[@mnhusin509]

Grip always faster if you had one, circuit race always had nice grippy warm tyres ready to use, and evem can change them in the middle of the race. So its definitely faster, once againt if you had one. But in loose gravel, bare dirt road, you dont have anygrip, yo must shovel your tire into the dirt to turn your car that is why rally driver always driver not gripping. The question is, which one is closer to regular car with regular tyre

[@thearapatthongkham653]

So the zero counter steer working with hairpin only?

[@skinderbeg]

Please tell me on which track the tests were carried out?

[@jammyhorizon1771]

I like to think i do something similar to this in karting. Kind of a mesh between this and slip angle, even thougn the karts aint 4wd.

[@LeoMartinezL30]

YO TSRB POSTED WAKE UP!! 🗣️🔥🔥🔥💯

[@Finnjaymakes]

I make Race Cars 🗿🍷

[@user-fc7gk2fj1t]

Takumi can do this in a rwd fr ae86. Proof you don’t need an AWD car for slip angle.😊

[@nic1586]

what about drifting the hairpins and grip the rest

[@Purehaste]

can you do another vid with more powerful cars?

[@MGdrifts]

the key is to know when is the right time you do it.

[@zp9898]

So a special technique is best in situations and not a solve all? Wild

[@Fujjinn1977]

How do i stop spinning out after trying todo this in assetto corsa