TTRPG REVIEW: Shadow of the Demon Lord

The one I keep getting confused with Against the Dark Master.
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"See... I can get you what you want, I can. I can get you anything, you just have to talk to me, you have to trust me. You can trust me, 'cause I'm your priest, I'm your shrink... I am your main connection to the switchboard of the soul. I'm the magic man... Santa Claus of the subconscious. You say it, you think it, you can have it."
Lenny Nero, Strange Days

[@jamest.harnden3659]

My group’s favorite system (and we play allot of games) play more than a one shot and then come back to it. The initiative system alone is worth it.

[@crowgoblin]

Also love the Magic system, because in 5E a wizard has to wait until a situation for their spell to make sense, fires off your only 2 spells you know and that’s it your done for the day, but in SotDL you have much more tighter choice of spells based on themes and you get to cast spells multiple times, which we find much easier to explain than spells slots.

[@Srdarkone]

I have run the game for around 3 years, so i would be happy to answer any questions related the game.

[@MagiofAsura]

I thought the beauty of the boon and bane system was that the DC was usually or always 10. I feel like he glossed over that which I feel like makes it far easier to run as GM. Pairing that with the professions feels like it would be pretty cool and opens it up for creativity to why your character who is a murderer would get a boon for trying to decieve someone.

[@Srdarkone]

yep, means you dont have to worry about skills, and having multiple proffesions gives you a history to work off of in charicter creation.@@MagiofAsura

[@kakashilover9231]

so Do the paths have to make sense to be a part of them? Or can a be a rouge at novice, and then a Artificer, then a chronomancer and be a sneaky builder time stopper?

[@Srdarkone]

​@@kakashilover9231 There is nothing in the rules to prevent that sort of chaos. Have at it.

[@rynowatcher]

Been running it for a bit too. I like it better than d&d because it solves some of the problems associated with a 5e game. Not a lot of extreme differences from 5e, but Rob Scwalb worked on the 5e design team, so 5e is pretty close to what he wanted for a fantasy game to begin with.

[@MySqueezingArm]

I've played this once. Super fun game, I love the spellcasting system. Even if the game is too much for some tables, the artwork is top notch for all systems.

[@cubescihist6737]

Is too much in which way?

[@MySqueezingArm]

@@cubescihist6737 One player at our group rolled a random character. A goblin disguised as a child prostitute.

[@cubescihist6737]

Oh! That’s interesting! Then again, you can always modify some things in order to make the tone more suitable for some people.

[@MySqueezingArm]

@@cubescihist6737 or use the more toned down versions, or whatever. I'm down with it, just explaining its an NC17 kinda game

[@needmorecowbell6895]

I like the game, but PCs are tremendously over powered at Master levels and don't have a lot to do as Novice levels. The splat books add some additional PC races and the game is well supported. The initiative system is very good with fast actions and slow actions.

[@crowgoblin]

I prefer SotDL progression over 5e any day, nobody picks Ranger just to get 3 months into a campaign and wishes they had chosen a Rogue. Progression is faster but with so many more path options 4 Novice paths, 16 Expert paths & 64 Master paths you can customise your characters progression in so many different ways, if you regret taking a path, the campaigns are short enough that you will soon be rolling another character and an opportunity to try new paths.

[@crowgoblin]

With 5E adv/dis you either have it or not, and if you have an advantage you should have a better chance, but with 5E you could still just roll 3 and a 4 and fail. I prefer the boons & boons because they make a difference as they should, if you have a boon it WILL add something to your roll and give you a better chance, plus as you level those boons stack so they make a bigger difference.

[@Ishpeck]

The "kboosh" @4:33 was the best illustration for the cancel-out aspect I've ever seen. Bravissimo! @14:59 Machinations of the Space Princess has a "How to be a Badass Player" section in it.

[@GlavestoneCarnston]

the sudden hot woman demanding I like and subscribe got me. Nice.

[@FlameQwert]

lmao that got me too

[@venusboys3]

Sounds like something I'd like for the setting, not so much for the system. Probably most useful as a bit of inspiration for another game.

[@rynowatcher]

To be fair to accusations of it not being that original: Rob Schalb worked on the 5e design team, so the games share similarities because demon lord would be 5e if he had not had people shouting him down in the design meetings. Peter Jackson is not the first person to make a movie on the lord of the rings, he just did it better than his preticessors. I do not think you need a wholly new and novel idea in order to have a good game so long as the exicution is better. As far as lacking in customization at low level; i mean, it is a game with levels and classes, that is the trade off, generally. Levels are there to bound the math and abilities so yes it is limiting as a basis of design choice. 3d6 stat generation gives you mare variance in characters, but it is variance that generally does not mater (ie, bx d&d your str 9 and my str 11 are different, but we got the same bonus). The thing that makes the system shine is the fact it makes you specialize, in my oppinion. It makes you focus in on a concept to keep your goals for the character in mind and does a good job of slow, incramental growth. You never really gain a level and feel like, "wow, when did he start being able to summon gods?"

[@Midgaardsormen]

Hey what watch is it you are wearing?

[@PostmortemVideo]

It's a fitbit with a replacement strap.

[@BoredToBoard]

Seems like a derivative of 5e-ish with a cool setting but not sure if I’ll splash the cash on this. I did a Google search and see there is a kickstarter so will go read through that. Thanks for this.

[@twentysides]

Robert Schwalb was one of the lead designers on 5e so I don't think derivative is a fair word to use.

[@bobhill-ol7wp]

imagine 5e but not shit

[@MagiofAsura]

Considering each session you are expected to level, feeling the same for a session or two isn't much of an issue.

[@neuromancer9k]

Two Bundle of Holding deals were just launched for this game. Great buy on a boatload of supplements. Looking for the new game they are going to launch on KS soon. ⚔🍻

[@robnecronomicon1570]

Great overview. I didn't like the way the characters level up simultaneously. The overall concept is good, tho'. BTW - What is your go-to for grimdark fantasy stuff? Ta'.

[@shallendor]

You starts out just as your race and when you hit level 1, you choose your starter class! It only goes up to level 10a, and you gain a level after each session!

[@Eron_the_Relentless]

The thing I found I disliked about SotDL (why the offset print of the revised edition I formerly owned did not survive the great purge) is the same thing I don't like about 3E-5E D&D, that being that really... chargen is the game. The "build" aspect bothers me even if it's relatively clean and tight in SotDL, I just can't shake the feeling that the reward for playing is... continuing chargen. Really characters only get to good differentiation in this system around 3rd-4th level. Which is supposedly 3-4 sessions in. I also dislike the speed of levelling up, as essentially the game limits itself to 10 session campaigns. It all feels jilted to me, a game made for cons where each time you sit down it's a different farm-boy character but don't worry they'll be Aragorn in a couple sessions and a few sessions later you can start over again. It's like there's no real character permanence because of constant unrelenting progression. At least with pre-WotC D&D change is incremental enough and there's no feats or other doo-dads I can look forward to getting, so there's no thought of build, rather that energy is invested in what the character does and who they are from a non-mechanical perspective. This is all part and parcel of Character Sheet Has All The Options mentality that plagues D&D now. Changelings were alright but clockworks were too quirky and fairy tale for the setting IMHO - every one of them has a key to wind to get them to move, a key they themselves can't reach. An entire race that can't be loners. Clockworks really should be called Toymen. I also dislike Boons and Banes for the same reason I don't like Advantage/Disadvantage. I don't like anything that makes risk difficult to ascertain for a given action. There is already a variable in play - a dice roll is always variable. The ability to know odds is something I find lacking in many modern systems and games and gamers. A lost virtue, really. Thanks for the review Grim.

[@smilerwithagun]

Keen to play this one day. Could you do a video about Midnight D20? It recently got a sexy new edition too. Never played that either but I like the idea of a short term campaign where you're essentially doomed from the outset and it's basically just about how long you can survive. Demon Lord is getting a (spiritual succesor) 2nd edition but from what I hear it's going to be a sanitized version of the original which sounds like a step backwards imho... Lean into the edge ffs... :) At the end of the day I suppose a game is only as good as the DM that runs it. Crap rules can be putty in the hands of a DM that knows how to tell a kickass story. The converse (sadly far more common) is also true... I hasten to add that players need to "show up" too. If players don't surprise/delight/entertain the DM too wtf is the point?

[@PrintAndPlayPodcast]

On "Being a good player", many of the Japanese games have sections on this.

[@liberalhyena9760]

The key point being “Bring Pokky”.

[@DiomedesRangue]

When we played this one, we had a pretty good time. I think boons and banes are just worse than adv/dis. I think this is my favourite version of modern dnd. I'd agree w/ the 7/10.

[@crowgoblin]

With adv/dis you either have it or not, and if you have an advantage you should have a better chance, but with 5E you could still just roll 3 and a 4 and fail. I prefer the boons & boons because they make a difference as they should, if you have a boon it WILL add something to your roll and give you a better chance, plus as you level those boons stack so they make a bigger difference.

[@joecoo4615]

This is a much better ruleset than 5E It's design is simple to pick up and play. My version came from Dtrpg, but won't be ordering from them.

[@joecoo4615]

On Alignment Ditch them you wouldn't miss them.. Conversely ....Be a bit more original by swapping the concepts around.

[@Zotob1975]

Have you reviewed Against the Darkmaster?

[@PostmortemVideo]

Yes.

[@JustanOlGuy]