Tulip Fever (Prebuys)

The market for used airplanes is hotter than a pistol right now. Lately, we’ve been seeing an increasing number of buyers who are in such a hurry to snap up used airplanes “before they get away” that they’re shortcutting prudent due diligence. Mike Busch relates the experience of one such buyer who signed a contract to purchase a nice-looking Florida-based Beech Musketeer with a "fresh annual" only to discover that the aircraft was hideously unairwothy and would have been a disastrous money pit had he not done an independent prebuy examination. Savvy Aviation offers Professional Maintenance Services to owners of General Aviation aircraft, such as: SavvyMx (Professional Maintenance Management), SavvyQA (Expert Consulting), SavvyPrebuy, SavvyAnalysis (Engine Data Analysis) and Breakdown Assistance. Savvy also publishes a monthly newsletter with lots of interesting information for the general aviation enthusiast; subscribe to it at www.savvyaviat... or text the word "Savvy" to 33777. This webinar was hosted by the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA).

[@jjohnston94]

I got lucky. I stuck to my "check the logbooks and do a prebuy" guns. I lost out on quite a few airplanes, until I found a nice little gem of a TriPacer. Not the airplane I really wanted, but I was honest with myself about my "mission", and I got a nice airplane at a very reasonable price. I don't know why I didn't get beat out on it, too, but I'm glad I didn't.

[@savvyaviation]

Nothing wrong with a Tri-Pacer!!!

[@dougmackenzie5976]

I remember my brother buying a C-140 for $2,800 in 1975. It was sold recently by someone else for $37,500. Same plane; 50-something years older. Prices are insane.

[@israelkozlik7554]

Thanks Mike. Good stuff as always. Just a small correction. Order a new cirrus sr22 right now and the estimated delivery is mid 2024. You heard that right. 24 months out!

[@savvyaviation]

Thanks for the info!

[@tallbrian100]

24 months is just a estimate, I would guess that its optimistic.

[@darrylday30]

Fantastic advice, as always.

[@ottob.884]

This video is a year old, what do you see now?

[@azarpour]

Great presentation and a lot of good information. Thank you, Mike, for sharing your experience and knowledge with us.

[@odorizedramblings4660]

TurboScan app is a great tool to use for log books. There are several KZbin videos on how to use it. Converts digital images into pdf. Works great, I've been using it for years.

[@bradfordparker6639]

Sold pa-11 on floats for 30k in 2019- now can't find one even at 100,k

[@wareairaviationservicesllc4933]

I would consider an A&P overhaul as being good IF it was well documented and all the parts were inspected and certified by a reputable shop. If that is the case, the A&P is simply doing the assembly of the engine and that should not be a strike against an aircraft overall.

[@utah20gflyer76]

When I bought my Mooney I paid a mechanic 1600 dollars to do a pre buy, he took my money and did a really poor job, it was a total waste of money. Not saying they can't be done right and be a good idea, but in some cases they are worthless.

[@4-7th_CAV]

I understand your pain. You didn't mention if the "mechanic" was one that you independently chose, or if the mechanic was one that the seller "recommended". To that end, I think it is always better to find your own mechanic, one that is familiar with the particular aircraft, AND that does not have any prior relationship whatsoever with the seller. That way you are in a much better position to get an unbiased (honest ?) inspection. I certainly hope that seller-biased inspections don't happen that often, but they do. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[@wntu4]

And some CFI flew this dumpster fire to the pre-buy?

[@4420dano]

Your webinars are sounding more like advertisements, Mike. That’s fair, I guess, considering you do them for free. But you used to educate folks and let them come to your service in appreciation of your generous help, now it’s just stories pitching a savvy service. Two grand, plus your fixed $750 fee is a significant layout for a $50k aircraft. 6 well placed labor hours will unearth all the big maintenance problems that might lie in wait to a prospective a/c buyer. And BTW, spar corrosion is no more prevalent on musketeers than any other small plane. Yeah, I own one.

[@4-7th_CAV]

I agree with you about the advertisements. I have watched a few of his webinars on EAA and there is definitely a big element of advertising his company. On the last one I watched I also noticed several things he mentioned that were downright incorrect !

[@savvyaviation]

At Savvy we are big believers in our mantras, like "condition based monitoring", "maintenance minimalism", "LOP operations", etc. These themes are easier to convey by way of example, and we have plenty of examples in the course of working with our clients. We don't mean it to come across as "advertising"...please think of it more as relaying our experiences to try to make a point. And, sorry to pick on the Musketeer...

[@Hooknspktr]

We diverge greatly on the insistence of not having the pre buy done in the current owner's hangar. There is no rational reason the buyer can't hire a mechanic of his choice to go there and do an impartial inspection. You give a fine example of why a seller would NOT want to have the plane taken elsewhere.....in your example the plane is now stuck at another location, unairworthy and subject to storage fees until the owner can have repairs made. While there were genuine issues found, it would have been nice to find them in the home hangar so the owner is not held hostage by another shop at another location. There is no way in hell my plane leaves home base or the logbooks get out of my control until it's sold. Say the prospective buyer gets mad and walks away mid pre buy? The shop has your plane completely disassembled....do you think they'll put it back together and take the loss out of kindness? Insanity.

[@mrschneibly6784]

Completely disassembled? Now that’s crazy and completely beyond the scope of a prebuy. The owner dictates with the new owner the scope of the inspections. I do like your thinking of keeping plane close by, less risky, less hassle, less logistics of moving plane, but a prebuy is not an annual, no removing cylinders, no “annual” in place of prebuy. Owner needs to maintain control or things can get messy and expensive, quickly.

[@Hooknspktr]

@@mrschneibly6784 You know what it means. Completely disassembled for pre buy (cowling, panels and fairings removed, plugs out, wheels off, etc), not as in every nut, bolt and screw. Disassembled enough that you aren't going to go get it and fly it home anytime soon. Even if it was all together, it's in the shop away from home and if the buyer walks away without paying, guess who is going to have to pay to get it back? It's rare, but I've seen worse...ends up in a lawsuit and plane held hostage. Nope. Look at it all you want but it ain't leaving home base. Same with logs, look at them all you want take pics or copies but they don't leave my sight. Oh, and the last plane I sold, the buyer paid to have it annualed as a pre buy.

[@stevejones7574]

Tulip Mania is of course, a massive exaggeration and not appropriate for many reasons. The prices of new aircraft being produced have gone from 7X the cost of used to 4.5X, assuming you're willing to wait AT LEAST 24 months, and don't encounter any new fees or charges while you're awaiting delivery. Is that a mania? Having owned aircraft for 35 years, I can't believe I'm saying this, but in the last 3 years It's has been much better place to put your money than a bank. If you don't believe that, try putting $ in a bank and saving for a new airplane. Your cash will lose AT LEAST 10%/year relative to the prices of aircraft for the forseeable future. The example is of course, similarly extreme. Seller was student pilot, who apparently didn't even know what an annual inspection is or anything about airplanes, including his own. The repair quotes seemed pretty high, but that's not unusual. While I agree a prebuy needs to be done by an independent A&P/IA, I see no reason why you can't do in owners hangar, assuming you have the good sense to make arrangement with A&P/IA in advance. So if you follow Mike's advise and scratch all FL & coastal aircraft off your list and insist others allow their aircraft to be taken away from home for inspection, you've eliminated a massive share of the market. Good luck with that.