Tuning tips: Compression & Rebound damping (MTB Rear Suspension Ep.7)

Hi guys! Many of you have been asking me to do a video about low and hi-speed compression & rebound tuning tips. I'm not an expert but in this video I share my opinion and some personal advice and tips to help you adjust your shock. These tips can also be used for the fork setup, although there is no curb test to adjust the fork rebound. Check the end of episode 5 where I talk about setting the fork rebound (just keep it at least as fast as shock speed). Hope you like it. Any question, critics or comments feel free :)
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[@reylopez3491]

Thanks for the great video. You've helped me greatly settings up my bike suspension. Can't wait for the next one!

[@sadrian9467]

Dude, you absolutlly rock!! Because of you I choose the right DH bike for me and now I've tuned it accordinglly. Lots of thanks dude!!! Cheers

[@andrextr]

Thank you my friend 👍

[@garyoneill8868]

For a fellow who is not an expert and who has English as his second language you sure do a great job of explaining suspension. It's helped a lot in helping me set up my bike. Thank you immensely for your time. Keep up the good work. That was very good to listen to. Regards, Gary. P.s. I've only watched 2 of your videos so far; when time permits I will watch all of the suspension ones.

[@andrextr]

Thanks cheers :)

[@fulldonkeymode8837]

He's an expert trust

[@TheBartes86]

Great explanation!!! Thanks you a lot for sharing your knowledge. I look forward to see more of your video.

[@iPowerRide]

Awesome series man, very helpfull! Thanks :)

[@Sixbillion1]

man your videos are the only reason i actually understand this stuff now !

[@andrextr]

Enjoy! Cheers \m/

[@Ivan-cp1dm]

Awesome videos, thanks for posting them.

[@bastaderegistros]

You are the man!!! Keep on that great work. Best wishes from Mexico

[@hobmarg]

Awesome videos and explanation! Thank you.

[@PeterM0911]

I was looking for dampers setting for racebikes, but this video is came up. Man! I have seen lots of videos in this topic. A shock is a shock, no matter is MTB or motocycle. But you just explained setup steps and all the related things so simple and clear... Fuck. I just got clear what we did wrong for ages with damper settings!

[@andrextr]

+Peter M Thanks Peter. This was some basic advice and yes these concepts can be adapted to other vehicles. You "just" need to adapt the adjustments to meet the type of terrain you ride and the requirements of your specific application ;) best regards.

[@jcastelao69]

Video incrível, ajudou imenso! Já tinha umas bases mas agora vai ser tune a fundo. Parabéns

[@stoenchu122]

Waiting for your next video already. Great video!

[@andrextr]

+stoenchu122 Thank you!! :)

[@torabora851]

Great idea! I'm look forward to new video with tutorial how to make this funcy charts!:)

[@jaysonbue3089]

Very Detailed Explanations 👍

[@coreycanuck1315]

Best video on this topic I have ever seen. Thank you for posting it.

[@andrextr]

Thank you my friend! Check out my other videos and my website. cheers

[@bigred805100]

Excellent video!

[@Bigsbeee]

Brilliant job of explaining. 👍

[@bensti666]

Damn, that was good! Clear and precisely...

[@batpeci10f]

Awsome video man! Keep up the good work !!!

[@condominioconizugna3325]

graeat! simple and clear! thank you!

[@collinmcballin]

Awesome video exactly what I was looking for

[@andrextr]

Thanks

[@carlosadorno1544]

I agree with your recommendation of setting the rebound to a bit faster than critical damping (from curb test... Maybe about 0.7 x critical damping). That is a good all-around "set and forget" setting that will keep your ride stable enough while giving optimal traction (very active suspension). The only situation where I think would be advisable to add a little rebound damping (to critical damping or a bit above - slower than your typical rebound setting) is if you're doing a lot of jumps. If rebound is fast (low amount of damping) the bike could tend to push your weight to the front when leaving rear tire from the lip of the jump. Too fast rebound on jumps could induce frequent nose-heavy landings or, in worst case, going OTB at landing. ¡Un saludo desde Puerto Rico 🇵🇷!

[@andrextr]

+Carlos Adorno Exactly.

[@stefandjalic]

Carlos Adorno, you are not right, work on your technique properly and you will see that very fast rebound on jumps doesn't have tendency to buck you over the handlebars. More aggresive riders tend to use much faster rebound cause they need faster returning of the rear wheel to the zero point (ground) to have more constant traction (on ground), and the same is with jumps and drops. If you are to stiff as a rider on your bike, if you are not taking the attack position properly while going straight to the jump, if you wrongly distribute weight on your bike while faceing the jump, or in the air, or on landing, if you are putting to much weight on the front of your bike, or on the back of your bike, if you holding your handlebars very strong and with that you focusin your major weight on your arms and front of the bike, in all those cases you will be bucket over the handlebars while you hiting the jumps and drops. Instead all of that, try to focus your major weight on the middle/center of bike (which is bottom bracket) with your feet and make leverage of it, cause every bike is built for purpose of rotation around botton bracket while riding and rider needs to make leverages with his arms and legs and squads, and hips and butt to make his bike work for what is buil for. Watch how proffesional ski riders tend to absorb big jumps at high speed's with butt, knee's, hip hinge.... same is with bike riding and jumping. Remember, rebound setting purpose is to back faster or slower your rear wheel to the ground formore traction, depending how agressive you are as a rider, that setting is not created to keep bad technical riders not to get kicked over the bars while jumping, riding or anything else.

[@dunja9999]

This is bye far the best yt Channel for Mtb Suspension. Thank you so much for this.

[@RxMTB]

Damn, climbed almost 400 subs int he past week :D. I linked your channel in the pinkbike forum on the rear suspension thread last week. Hope you don't mind lol Another great video thanks!!

[@andrextr]

+Christian Moniz Yes, one of my videos was published on VitalMTB, MTBR, and in other sites and magazines. So I got a massive "boom" in subscribers, lots of people seeing the videos and many comments, which is awesome! :D

[@RxMTB]

I saw that, congratulations! Looking forward to your next video.

[@radlands7796]

Perfect! Thank you :)

[@jairoregalado]

Very interesting video. thanks a lot.

[@jamesdahmer5027]

awesome again thanks!

[@conormcdonald3903]

Love ur vids. U got a sub

[@Hibbard1986]

sweet video, will need to look at it a bit more later haha, when i can ride

[@alexlp6782]

Golden. Thank you

[@anresote]

Andre!! Please do videos about the front suspension settings! You are awesome at it!

[@andrextr]

+anresote Hi! Thank you! The same principles also applies for the front suspension. The main difference is the rebound since there is no curb method. Just keep it on a speed a little bit faster than the rear shock. :) Bye

[@carlosadorno1544]

Your videos are great! Very technical and theoretical stuff made understandable for most viewers. Regarding the high speed compression damping, if frequently bottoming-out, I'd prefer to add volume spacers (increase progression) instead of increasing HSC to get better traction and small-bump compliance. Compression damping makes the ride feel harsher. Just a bit of low-speed compression (LSC) in the fork can help to avoid wallowing, and front diving during hard turns or braking (preserve geometry). I believe you've covered this somewhere else but I'd like to remind. ¡Saludos desde Puerto Rico 🇵🇷!

[@andrextr]

+Carlos Adorno I think I covered that on this video. I also prefer spacers than HSC, but on coil you don't have that option

[@addiuseighter]

So nice

[@emiliano3755]

Great ! I like your Channel . Obrigado !

[@bencekormos1853]

Really cool stuff, thanks! Learning a lot! =) I know it's not part of this subject (rear suspension) but how does the front suspension affect the rear one? Could you please do a video about how to set up the LSR-HSR-LSC-HSC dampings on a bike that has all the 4-way adjustability both at the front and at the rear?

[@andrextr]

Hi. But this video was already about the setup of a bike with 4-way adjustments...it was about the rear shock, but the principles are the same for the front fork. If you have any particular question feel free to ask. Bye

[@jeffminyard7796]

Hey Andre, great vids bro! Do you have a complete suspensions analysis of the the lapierre dh 2015 or newer? I saw that it was on the progressiveness list in another video. Thanks

[@BeroBaer]

Hey Andre, I really appreciate your videos but can you tell my why I wouldn't want a slower high speed rebound? At 10:10 you say I want to fasten it up. But what I think is: if I had a slower HSR I could make sure not to get blown off my bike after a harsh landing / impact and also I could use more travel on roots and rocky sections without having to try to hold on my bars and pedals. What do you think?

[@Derkenblosh2]

Love your tech videos ... I have a Cane Creek DB inline on the way for my Diamondback Atroz (similar to a santa cruz Heckler) PS. do us all a favor and increase the gain of your mic or decrease the gain on the music .... the large difference in volume, is not fun with headphones on :-D

[@michaelharrington6372]

Great video! Not sure if you know, but MRP now offers a progressive coil spring. I don't know if it's compatible with other manufacturer's shocks though.

[@andrextr]

Yes it seems that progressive springs started to be a reality now... they are a bit expensive thought...

[@alwaystwoam]

The best.

[@teknology01]

abrigado esta fui a melhor explicason que e ovido ate oje so que veio muintu tarde eo ja mandai o meo fork and shock para push industries pare eles facer u tunning porque ja tava ficar malucu. sorry for my portuguese i been in the us too long. thank you!

[@andrextr]

De nada! Adeus.

[@mohdazminishak6387]

I really enjoy and learn a lot about rebound & compression on my bike. What about rebound for fork? Can we use curb test as well?

[@andrextr]

Hi. Thanks. No, curb test is only for rear wheel. The rebound of front fork is not so important (I mean, it's important but you have more room to play). I reccomend to adjust first the rear rebound and then bounce on the bike at parking lot and adjust the fork rebound until you feel both rear and front balanced/equilibatred... You can even put the fork rebound a bit faster than the shock. I briefly discussed the front fork rebound at minute 10:30 in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJqrgpdqot-fabs Bye

[@mohdazminishak6387]

will try this weekend! thank you.

[@hfedrums123]

Hello I have a 2020 x2 on an sb150 do you recommend for rebound the high speed and low speed rebound be changed equally on the curb test? Should hsr and lsr always be equal??

[@Makavelian97]

How should I change my approach to high speed compression tuning if my shock features an adjustable HBC circuit? Being I can tune bottom-out resistance using that. Cheers

[@teror1sta]

What you will say about Fox DHX RC4 ? ;)

[@mariocorsi7647]

Hi Andre! I have a question.. With my current spring rate I achieve 25% sag. The problem is that I bottom out to often, so I have been consistently increasing hsc, till the point it's totally closed. Since in the video you explain that increasing to much HSC kills the sensitivity of the suspension, i was wondering if it's better to increase a little beat the spring rste ,(even if I achieve less sag) in order to use less HSC? How important is the sag percentage for the suspension performance?. Thank you for these videos!

[@andrextr]

Which bike do you have? Decreasing SAG stiffens the suspension overall and also reduces small bump compliance. Did you considered using a progressive coil spring? Canecreek and MRP now sell those. Cheers

[@mariocorsi7647]

@@andrextr i have a 2018 pivot phoenix, I will try the progressive springs! Thank you!

[@reapering125]

i followed your tunning tips. it helped alot but i am having a problem. I have been getting faster and noticing at high speeds my 2016 5010 is feeling wallowy at high speeds and when i enter chatter the rear shock is riding very harsh almost like its packing. How is it posible that i am having both aspect of suspension problems. I think that it might be possible feathering the brake in the chatter might cause it to be harsh?!

[@andrextr]

+russell Yes, rear braking causes a stiffening on the rear suspension and it slows downs the rebound speed. Although I'm not sure how much this effect is important and noticeable (I never rode a fully brake independent bike with zero brake-squat to compare). But, what shock do you have?

[@reapering125]

its the stock float dps. I was thinking about getting a cane creek inline or a fox float x2. i heard that these shocks can improve the ride

[@jungjoonchoi3744]

I have rs vivid r2c coil shock which has begining and ending rebound adjuster. Rs says ending rebound reacts when the shock travel is in deep situation. I don't know whether it means ending rebound works not in speed sensitive way but position sensitive way. I think you teacher can show me the answer and how to set the ending rebound in accordance with curb test. Thank you!

[@andrextr]

The "ending rebound" is the alternative name for high-speed rebound. It's not position sensitive as the name incorrectly suggests. It's speed sensitive. In fact you can have high-speed rebound events at first part of the travel (riding fast over mid-sized roots and rocks). High-speed rebound events also occour frequently when recovering from deep in the travel, hence the name "ending stroke rebound". Check episode 15 for ultimate info on rebound: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKnVeqyYj92Ai6M

[@brandonrawlings7775]

I have a fox float x2 and you said about how to tune the rebound with the hi and low speed together. But how is that done with a fox the cane Creek is obvious now but I'm still a little lost

[@andrextr]

Its similar between CCDB or Float X2. You can see here the fox guideline for the rebound (www.ridefox.com/img/help/page556-T8A6/inline/FLOAT-X2-recommended-settings.jpg) and then, fine tune the rebound using the curb method until you got just a tiny oscillation (Ep.5). Bye :)

[@bhanuwalia708]

What are the spring coefficient and damping coefficient of the damper?

[@pheoix]

Hello, thanks a lot for the videos. Very helpful. I have a question though, I bought a used shock from a 2015 giant reign. I put it on my Bulls wild cup. I set it to 30% sag but notice it's kind of stiff on big hits. Shock is m compression and m rebound. I'm assuming only thing to do is remove internal shims? Thanks.

[@andrextr]

+pheoix By stiff on big hits do you mean harsh bottom-out? Or do you feel harshness/spiking on square edge bumps like roots, potholes or rocks? Bye

[@pheoix]

+andrextr thanks for reply. I mean harshness spiking. I never reach bottom our according to my o ring. In fact it's even more than a cm to bottom. I weigh 175 lbs. The small bump compression on other hand is good but I think that's from the debonair can.

[@andrextr]

Its hard to check what's happening without testing it, but too much compression, specially the high speed one, can cause harshness on square edge bumps. HSC should be adjusted to reduce harsh bottom outs without affecting too much square-edge bumps. If your shock doesnt have any external HSC adjustment it's hard to solve the problem (only with internal shim re-tuning). Excessive HSC can be diagnosed by "hand" test. When you pull the saddle down with your hand slowly thats LSC, and you can feel the softness of the suspension. Now, if you lift the rear wheel and then pull the saddle hard against the floor, you feel the HSC. Too much HSC and you feel the sudden stiffening of the suspension during the impact (like a partial lockout). Bye.

[@pheoix]

+andrextr I see. Yes, I'm thinking I might have to go in there and adjust the shims. I'll try the test too to check. Thanks for all the help have a good one.

[@himalayandirt8486]

Hi can you make a video about dhx2 performance elite coil shock? Because I have a oil leak from my shock. Thanks...

[@andrextr]

You need to service the shock and replace orings. Fox has instructions for service their shocks www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=978

[@himalayandirt8486]

@@andrextr Yes, serviced it by following the guidelines by Fox, but didnt change the O ring. It actually helped to prevent oil leaking for about 2 months and then started leaking again...

[@nicoofner85]

Hi andre! On the Rockshox boxxer team and vivid coil there is only 1 comoression knob. Is it lowspeed or highspeed? Or both?;)

[@andrextr]

Nico Ofner It's low speed. It will affect the overall stiffness of the bike on diving, Bob, rider induced movement and other situations. It also some negative effect on the small bump compliance.

[@nicoofner85]

andrextr Thanks!

[@jungjoonchoi3744]

what is fuction of sag? I read pros use very stiff spring rate. Then they will have so less of sag, won't they? what is different between high spring rate and much of low speed compression?

[@andrextr]

The function of SAG is to allow the suspension to extend when you go over an hole for instance (this is called the negative travel). A suspension with SAG allows the wheels to track better the terrain up & down, maximizing traction, stability and comfort. A stiffer spring creates less SAG and an overall firmer feeling with more harshness over bumps. A softer spring will behave smoother over bumps but it will bottom-out more easily and it will wallow/weave more and squat more under pedaling ("spongy" feeling). A SAG between 25-30% is a good compromise for most riding styles. Now, the compression damping what it does it to promote resistance to the compression. So, it reduces the speed at which the shock compresses over a bump, and it reduces how far the shock compresses on a bump. So, compression damping also stiffens the suspension. Low-speed compression damping is used to reduce the amount of suspension squat / dive, increasing the overall stability of the bike. For instance, in racing cars, they use a good amount of low speed compression to reduce body roll on turns keeping the car leveled with the ground. High-speed compression is mainly used to reduce harsh bottom-outs (in Rampage this setting is typically near its max). Too much low or high-speed compression will cause harshness, so you should use a balanced amount of both. Pro's typically run higher compression settings to increase bike stability and to reduce bottom-outs. But for a "normal" guy, you don't need to run a stiff suspension like that. I hope I explained it well, since this is a tricky question without an easy answer.

[@jungjoonchoi3744]

ok. thank you.

[@mxer294]

Easy answer is down to the speed that pros ride, they need a stiffer set up to handle the frequency and impact of the hits, if a mere mortal was to ride a pro setup they would barley notice the bike had suspension because you've got to be flat out to get it working.

[@lubbenz]

hey andre, i got a ccdb air and turned my rebound completely fast and without any compression damping. i set the sag to around 25-30%, probably 30%. i'm an average guy (1,85m and 75kg) but i got the "problem" that there are no oscillations at all with maximum fast rebound, which i find a bit confusing. the shock just returns to the sag position without any oscillations (okay well, maybe a tiny VERY little oscillation, but that's fine anyway) on this maximum fast rebound setting. that shouldnt be the case right? the shock has also been serviced last year at an official cane creek service center and i'm pretty happy with the performance, i don't think or feel that there's too much friction in the shock that could possibly lead to zero oscillations. so i'm pretty clueless and feel kind of like it would be wrong to ride with maximum fast rebound.

[@andrextr]

Did you put both rebounds at the fast? If so, it seems that your shock is almost overdamped. In fast position you still get a considerable amount of rebound damping. In your case since you get a tiny oscillation is perfect, but if you were like 10kg lighter maybe you couldn't get that... A shock should have the adjustability range for both a light rider or a heavy one. But don't worry in your case it's ok :) Bye

[@lubbenz]

yep, both LSR and HSR are maximum fast. so with "seems that your shock is almost overdamped" you mean like from factory setting / after the service? like that it's possible that there's too much oil in the shock or oil with too high viscosity? anyway, seems fine to me with those max fast settings, so i'm gonna try it for the next weeks. i tried it during one ride and it didn't feel like its kicking me too hard in the takeoff of jumps or anything, so as of right now i think it's fine. thanks for your answer! bye. :D

[@andrextr]

Too much oil no, but higher viscosity it's possible. Or a re-valving... Don't know what happened. I never tested seriously a CCBD air, but I have your weight and most of the shocks that I tested can go from a very slow rebound to pogo-stick like. But don't bother with yours. Have fun (in fastest rebound) :D !

[@lubbenz]

thanks man. the shock wasn't revalved, but it's possible that they maybe changed the oil to another with higher viscosity, they are a certified cane creek service center but i obviously don't know what oil they put in. maybe it's that. thanks again!!

[@RafaLauris]

Esqueceu as legendas em pt?😩

[@yurysun4727]

Hi there, is Increasing turning Open and Decreasing tuning Close ...?

[@andrextr]

Yury sun increasing compression is making stiffer (closing or “+”). Increasing rebound damping is to make it slower

[@marianoschoefer5941]

great video like the others! FYI, FOES did a two-stifness spring to get more sensitivity AND a progressive spring. (www.pinkbike.com/news/article2967.html) However, they did it pretty certainly because the geometry is soooo regressive on the DHS mono 2:1 that you always bottom out and have no feedback from your feet on take offs.. (had the bike for a few years) thanks for your videos, continue ;)

[@andrextr]

+Mariano Schoefer Hi! Thank you for that info, pretty nice! But, that spring actually are 2 different springs attached by that white plastic thing right? In automotive suspensions its possible to find progressive coils, which is only one coil but with different spacing between the coil elements. For MTB I never saw that kind of coils.. and I don';t understand why.... It would make a lot of sense for many people! If air springs are progressive, why not using a progressive coil spring ??

[@jack91522]

In the video u have mentioned LS and HS comp for jumps. Which is the right adjustment which effects jumps. Thx.

[@andrextr]

Hi. More LS comp make the bike overall more firmer, reducing the "floating" or "boating" effect. This can be good on smooth jumps, and smooth take-offs, since the bike won't dive so much and runs higher on the travel. On the other hand the HS comp will make the suspension firmer on hard landings, so it will reduce bottom-outs on hard landings.... To conclude, increase LS if you ride mainly smooth jumps, flow trails and dirt-jump like stuff. If you ride mostly DH tracks, rocky tracks, then you might want to keep the LS on the lowish side to increase softness and comfort. The HS comp, just tune it until you stop having too many bottoming out. Too much LS or HS comp will reduce the sensitivity of the suspension.

[@jack91522]

@@andrextr sounds like its good to have some LSC for climbing, flow trails, jumps,overall pedaling efficiency. However, I cant think of a reason to have HSC other than controlling bottom outs. Is it best to have zero HSC if youre not bottoming out? Any disadvantages of zero HSC? Changing LSC and HSC will change rebound? Is there a rule of thumb of how much rebound changes for every compression setting click in eithet direction?

[@andrextr]

Yes for the first sentences. The disadvantage is the potential bottom outs and if you want a more firmer fork, extra HSC will help. The compression does not affect rebound, they are independent circuits (the direction of oil flow during rebound or during compression opens the respectivr circuit and closes the other).

[@virendra_mali]

8.30 R.I.P flat landing

[@cutdepiefails6596]

Will this apply to cars?

[@andrextr]

+Cut de Pie Fails The principles of suspension and damping are the same, the way you tuned is what differs depending on the aplication. The suspension settings are different between a race car, an off-road vehicle or a family car. I dont know much about car suspension but, for instance, a normal car has a faster rebound to increase confort while a race car and offroad vehicle has a slower rebound for increased chassi stability. Race cars have higher low speed compression damping to be more stiffer and reduce body rolling on turns, while offroad vehicles have a more soft suspension to improve bump absorption. Bye

[@Th3Gr33k]

10 months since last post. Hope you're OK dude!!!

[@andrextr]

Hi man, yes I'm still alive :D Not much time for videos now, but I still do some analysis for VitalMTB (www.vitalmtb.com/features/2018-Vital-MTB-Long-Travel-29er-Test-Sessions,2242)

[@Th3Gr33k]

andrextr Glad to hear! I'll take a look. Cheers for sharing!

[@mreza2364]

Wtf no shock appeared in presentation

[@andrextr]

You have one in the thumbnail :)

[@tecassemino]

L’anglais je déteste cette langue on comprend rien et souvent chez fox de mes 2 aucun truc en français 😡😡😡

[@danielcummins9011]

Really good video!

[@andrextr]

Thank you! :)

[@virendra_mali]

8.30 R.I.P flat landing