Drag Radial Suspension Setup!! Instant Center, Anti-Squat explanations. What works!

[@foxrodx2757]

Most are so secretive with information but I love the fact you willing to helps others that shows a lot of your character! Someone raised you right!

[@blackman8795]

You are so right about how most people are secretive about everything when it comes to cars this guy did us a great service

[@jcnpresser]

Man you are the go to for a new racer, please keep up the awesome work for every one to learn from!

[@jessgilliam1698]

good explaination of instant center and antisquat. a lot of people that are out there tryin to run a radial tire have never heard of antisquat and instant center. they see a big tire car or a small tire slick car squat and weight transfer off the line and think a radial is suppost to be setup that way also. so good video man.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@socalfun64]

Wow, your awesome sharing this information. It’s like having an engineer for a Brother or Friend with actual race experience. Cool!

[@vincemolinarolo5569]

This is great information for guys like me who have switched to radial !!!! Thanks TJ for sharing!!

[@kasperdelauder6999]

Thank u . I am trying to build my truck and your videos have been very helpful

[@danielbrealey2924]

Your a champ, John. Great info. Drastically different than what I've learnt when setting up for large tyre slick set- up (which is useless to me being a small tyre radial racer in Australia). Thanks for helping us all out brother...

[@TurboJohnRacing]

I hope it helps, good luck!

[@danielbrealey2924]

@@TurboJohnRacing Dude, i'm getting down on a 235 DR- i need all the help i can get! Cheers from Down Under brother. Great to see the new car's working so well for you

[@nickmellon972]

John could you do a video on dialing in a fresh build from scratch for the first time? I have been watching your videos and I am wondering if there's any advice to prevent factors from interfering with eachother and allow me to identify what I need to dial in when I am doing test hits.

[@jeremyeubanks2387]

Man I loved this video .. I always wondered why the radial tire cars that are fast launch totally different from race cars with slicks. . The way you explained anti squat made it all clear to me ... radial tire cars leave similar in style as a shaft driven motorcycle like the vmax .. when you accelerate rapidly the whole vehicle rises ... loved it man and thank you for this video

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@601Volvo]

Thanks for posting, I'll have to review and watch a few times, great notes!

[@mattvorhees6055]

Back when I was a kid in the late 90s we ran lift bars, Rancho 9000 shocks and mccreary dirt track tires. We could get them to hook pretty damn good

[@1diggitech]

Yes sir Mac from Southside is a cool dude spent alot of time on the phone with me,taught me alot

[@FYEFOOD2020]

Great information buddy truly been having trouble getting my cutlass to hook since I went turbo. The boost ramps in too quickly it shocks the freaking tires EVERYTIME. I’m now running on just wastegate and now can’t even wake up a sick cow. It’s such a learning curve.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Plot the suspension to see where you are.

[@FYEFOOD2020]

Turbo John on it! I’m in the shop all day today rainy so nothing else to do🤷🏽‍♂️

[@cn8484]

Awesome videos john 👍

[@badass6.0powerstroke10]

I remember the old South Side Machine Lower Control Arms back in the Day, actually ran them on my 1986 Fox Body. was only running High 11,s Low 12,s at the time. but they really worked good. Was running slicks at the time. Remember ripping the Upper Control Arms out from the Floor, Broke the Driveshaft in two, and also Bent the 8.8 Housing. everything in the 8.8 was Good, Moser 33 spline axles, Moser Spool, and the Gearset. that was with a Tremec TKO 5-Speed. I'm know running a different combo now. 521 Stroked BBF, C-4 No Brake, 8" Converter, Still an 8.8 I think there pretty Strong Rears, Provided you got good stuff in it. and ALWAYS WELD the Axle Tubes to the Center Housing. I,m currently running Low to Mid Nines 521 N/A through a 1000 cfm Holley 4150 from Pro Systems, Out of the box Trickflow Street/Strip Heads, Mild Solid Roller, 10.4:1 Compression. on 275/60 Drag Radials. use to run a 28/10/15 Drag Slick. Going from slicks to radials was a Big Learning curve. First time at track I remember could not get it to hook, kept Lowering Air Pressure and it kept getting worse. talked to a few people in the lanes that were running Drag Radials. first thing everyone said what was I running for Air Pressure. With Slicks usually ran 10-13 psi. with the Radials my Best Run that Day was with 18 psi. So usually my first run when I go I start right at 20 psi. I Love the Radials will probally Never go back to Drag Slicks. feels so much safer on the Top End, No More Swerving back and forth from the Ass End. I Also notice I have to run a lot more Negative Pinion Angle with the Radials. I Love your Videos Man, Very informative, Keep Em Coming.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Love radials, I’ll never have slicks again. I hope!

[@jefflebo5836]

Yes a lot of us used the SSM lift bars back in the day. These were our daily drivers. No one told use how noises and harsh they’d be. After a year I probably took them off. Didn’t have much else done to the suspension except sub frames. On a street tire with that setup they didn’t help much. But we were noobs back then. Great times tho for sure!!

[@joeallen1410]

Can u do this again with video showing what your car does

[@johndouglas3418]

I like your videos. I watched my father measure the instant center without a calculator, scaled the car jacked it wrote the measurements on the floor and came up with instant center for our car. the setup is unproven at this point because my father passed, but I'am going to put drag radials on the car and remove the bars.I have no adders just old fashion hemi power. The weight was 2350lbs with the iron hemi and just replaced that with an all aluminum JP1 hemi. I watch your channel because it not the high dollar approach to radial racing and sometimes common since is better than just throwing money at the car.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Sorry about your dad! Sounds like you are gonna have a great car!

[@keysautorepair6038]

I promise you guys this is the best information about suspension u will find out their..

[@stevewilliams8143]

I agree John, I raced asphalt modifieds, on a 8 in Hoosier with approx 500 hp on 3/10 mile banked, anti squat down straights and off corners is a bitch, thank u for videos

[@nerdbiscuit]

Thanks for the information!

[@CrippleNickel555]

Very informative video buddy,I have a 1988 fox body notch(1,000+ hp) & ran a slick my whole racing career but wanting to go radial,I hook pretty good off the line but about 80’ to 100’ out it wants to start acting crazy

[@danielupchurch6024]

Throw more power at it.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Plot out the suspension and get you some anti squat!

[@stevewilliams8143]

Do u ever get holes or cracks in pipes running header wrap? I stopped using it because it trashed a set of nice headers.

[@Dfour]

superb tutorial !

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@slprhooptie]

Finally wrapping my head around this. When do you know you need to shorten front travel(besides wheelies) I'm topping out my single strange to fast and unloads the tire. Look at my channel for vids. Stuck at 9.0s with 1.35 60s. Next outing going to try 130ish as with 40ish inch instant center. Atm I pull 10 degrees out .15 after the hit and run it out a second any faster it chatters the tire 20ft out when suspension tops out

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Are the rear shocks double adjustable? Keep tightening compression on the rear. Most likely what is happening, the tire gets upset because the rear shock compressed some.

[@slprhooptie]

@@TurboJohnRacing yeah strange doubles promod valved. Just sent them back for a rebuild as I got them used few years back. Added more adj for antisquat etc. Was only around 90 100 in my vids. They worked best at 7 comp full loose ext. That's likely to change.

[@toddmaggard9259]

Great video I just finished a coyote swap fox and first time to the track was horrible. I went with a wild rides racing trq box kit because mine were mangled and what use to work with factory trq box ‘s doesn’t now.. lol. I have to throw them ole 4 cyl springs away I need some good rear springs so I can get that thing down in the 15-1.4’s atleast. My car puts 420 to the tire and weighs 2700 so it has potential to run mid 10’s but I have to add more gear. My cars a GT non tub’d so it’s very hard to get a 28 to fit but if I could I know that would help tremendously. The uppers and lowers I’m using cane with my kit I don’t have those drop brackets so that’s something I’m going to look into. My car is also a 5 speed TKo 600 (faceplated) setup and it’s killing me that all I could muster was a 1.7 when I know I have 1.4-1.5 potential at that power to weight ratio. I’m also going to step it up to a 456 from a 410. You wouldn’t happen to have any rear sus parts? I also need some stronger axles and a spool would be nice. Again great video. I’m looking forward to spring my goal is to hang both wheels a foot off the ground and drive that bitch to a 10.50

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Sounds like a cool ride. I run moser 35 spline axles in mine, great service and warranty! I don’t have xx anything for sale now. If you roll the lip of the fender and get a 6.5” backspace wheel, with a big hammer on the inner fender a 275/28 will fit.

[@toddmaggard9259]

Thanks brother I appreciate it.

[@garyrisley3781]

Hi John, Is there a sweet spot distance from the axle center line to the lower bar mount point? Would a longer or shorter center distance make a difference with the bar angle being maintained? Would a shorter distance on the axle and use the stock mount be the same as going longer on the axle and lowering the front bar one inch??

[@FAFO1984]

Fantastic video.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@oneshotracing2147]

Thnx John, big help over here.

[@louf7178]

Looking at my p/u truck for the upcoming winter and recalling these videos, could this be used for traction in snow?

[@garybear8685]

Thanks for the info John. I really like your hot rod.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@ApostleDavids8w]

Thsnks fie the tips. I’m building up a 62 c10 for the first time. Need all the help I can get.

[@nathaniel4756]

i enjoyed your video,not much of this info out there ,i learned some new stuff and look forward to more videos in the future.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@justinw_tbss_dadvan9447]

Great information. Something I been working on with my trailblazer ss . This video cleared a lot of my questions up thank you.

[@B88C123]

I have have team z relocated uppers, team z tubular lowers, and team z drag springs. My upper bars are 12degrees down going towards the body and my lower bars are 1/2 a degree going up towards the body. Should i work on getting the lowers closer to 3-5 degrees? Stick shift car.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Stick shift hits the tire super hard, unless you have a nice slipper clutch. I would see how it works where it is, then test with the bottom bar on the body up one hole and see what happens.

[@granttarget8436]

Awesome video! Curious with the upper body adjustable brackets. looking at commercial available kits, it looks like the bottom hole is in the stock position. Meaning there would be no adjustment below stock mounting position. Is this done for a reason? What angle are the upper control arms in the stock position?

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Mine, I tried to get center hole about in factory location. But if it’s a radial car only, I would try to get the factory height in one of the upper holes

[@billypaige9570]

John do you have any information on setting up a ladder bar car for drag radial? Does the baseline suspensions calculator work with a ladder bar set up? I have a newer Camaro, freshly built with AFCO 3970BGX rear shocks with 125lb springs on it, should the springs be softer for the drag radial? They are set up according to the AFCO site as far as spring heights & travel. They have 7”inches of travel & the car turned out to be 50%front & 50%rear, total race weight with driver is 3300lbs. Thanks, Great videos!

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Baseline calculator will work, your instant center is the front bolt on the body. You cannot change links, only height. But those calculations will tell you what the car will do

[@richardharris492]

Good explanation of how things work, thank you

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Glad it helps! Thanks

[@jeffyoung2089]

Thanks John!

[@mattsisum6700]

Turbo John.. On a bad surface say street or no prep with slick do you need more or less anti squat generally?

[@fitomixx]

Excelent videos fox body turbo great machine one question ? what angle pinion recomended for drag racin 4 link

[@TurboJohnRacing]

1-3 degrees normally at ride height, but make sure it does not go positive when it’s fully extended

[@undercover4218]

Turbo John what's your setup? Upper lower brackets (brand), shocks & struts, spring rate. Your car works!!! I'm redoing my setup and I'd like my car to work like yours.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

My buddy had the lower brackets made, but trz and team z make some also. I have qa1 double adjustable rear shocks with 110 rate springs, front are strange 10 way single adjustable with 175 spring rate.

[@AKADoughNut]

Have any info on a leaf spring set up

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Unfortunately, I have no experience with leafs. Most of the cars I see at the track have cal tracs though.

[@phonypony5.0]

Who makes your upper suspension mount ?

[@billypaige9570]

For a drag radial set up, How do I get the shaft of the rear shock to sink down into the main body of the shock? Is it a matter of a lighter spring or screw the adjustment down some to lower it? I mean how much are we talking, 1/2”, 1”inch? Thanks

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Both possibly, softer spring and screwing the spring perch down on the shock body. Then raise the spring mount back up to get the ride height right

[@lsxtuner6126]

Any advice for an independent suspension street car on drag radials besides switch to a straight rear axle?

[@TurboJohnRacing]

I have no experience with that type of suspension! Sorry

[@georgem.6136]

What Data are you actually reviewing when tuning the suspension on your car? Cool Video!

[@justin_parks]

Video

[@TurboJohnRacing]

There is so much happening when a car leaves it is essential to have video. The modern cameras have made it so much better! Get video, every pass and review the footage after each pass just like looking at the data log. It is also pretty cheap to do shock sensors now if you have data logging channel space.

[@starnesfab9908]

probably a longshot. but what kind of instant center would you say a big tire truck would be ideal for starting at. 57/43 weight offset 29.5in links and 33x15 slicks. right now its at 93% wiht a 72.25 instant center. havent made any passes yet trying to get some knowledge on what works with big tires. Majority of what i find is for radials. Thanks

[@TurboJohnRacing]

I have no experience with that type of set up. I would try where it is, Get good video of the pass to see if you need to make any changes

[@MultiTestPage]

excellent explanation, well done.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Awesome

[@ronhawkins7408]

Why do you use 4 lug axles as opposed to 5?

[@rhettgerner839]

What do you think about 208% anti squat on a 95 mustang 28in slick

[@venomhemi3914]

does lifting the front up an inch, hurt the launch? like spring booster or bigger front springs?>

[@TurboJohnRacing]

It changes the center of gravity location, which will change the neutral line. You can play on the calculators to see the actual changes

[@707turbo1]

@@TurboJohnRacing hi turbo John! My car is Scion FR-S with independent rear suspension it weighs 3000lbs .I am running M&h race master 245/40/18 drag radials that have polyfiberglass side walls. I am having trouble figuring out how to get a good launch my best 60ft is 1.97 and a 12.7. 1/4 mile at 113mph.My track is Sonoma raceway in California it always very sticky and well prepped. I have a centrifugal supercharger so my minimum launch rpm is 4000 rpm but I really don’t start making power until 5000 rpm. Can you give me any advice on what to do with my tire pressure and shock compression? You’re the first person that has said that you don’t want your car to squat with drag radials. I have 32 way adjustable shocks 0 being softest. I have been running them between 4-10. And tire pressure between 20-26psi. My problem is usually the tire will hook and after a few rotations then brakeloss . When I got my best 60ft I had the shocks at 10 and my psi was actually at 26psi when I launched at4000rpm I slipped the clutch a little bit and my wheel speed data log said for the first 1.7seconds wheel slip was going up and down between 70-40% then at about 20 mph stopped slipping. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!! I love your video’s and how your straight forward and you don’t hide what you’re doing.

[@zlatnasto14]

Hi John, plotting my 4 link currently, I have a engine conversion with a high centre of gravity @ 31", 108" wheel base. Heaps of adjustment however with the centre of gravity so high, I can't get a good anti squat value for radial. Anything around 130%+ equals a very short instant centre length, like 28". Any advice?

[@TurboJohnRacing]

I have run 28" length on my old mustang, but not on a 4 link. Go check out Tin Soldiers, they are now offering a low prep conversion kit for 4 link stuff. I'm planning on getting some at some point.

[@MMWelding_]

Where do you start you baseline angle for your pinion angle?

[@TurboJohnRacing]

2-3 deg down most times

[@nsboost]

Hey john. You got any resources I can go to for torque arm suspensions? I know the TA holds pinion angle and somewhat acts like to upper arm on a 4 link but not exactly (since they have a slip joint it’s not the same). Instant center can be moved back or forward with lowering or raising rear LCA mount. But I can’t figure exactly how one would calculate AS on it

[@TurboJohnRacing]

I’m not familiar with the torque arm stuff, but it sounds like what you said, the upper bar is simulated by the torque arm. Maybe use a normal, instant center calculator to see what it gives

[@mgreene011]

Awesome video John. Thank you.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Hope it can help!

[@jaydollar140]

Great info bro. On my street car it runs 7.10 in the 8th at 99 miles. Supercharger 302 stock control arms would the ss control help my 60 ft times?

[@TurboJohnRacing]

South side bars are great!

[@livetorace163]

Great information. Thanks for putting this out there.

[@JHunterGG]

What if you have a wheelie problem what the best thing to do

[@TurboJohnRacing]

It depends, but almost always, shorten the length of the instant center, tie the front down some, tighten front extension on struts.

[@timruiter5460]

Thank you for the lesson.

[@slacktantrum8748]

Good video

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@jasonstrester]

Good info! Thanks

[@supercharged6771]

I'm on it, thank you

[@leroytapia2596]

Any leaf spring Caltrac tips?

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Unfortunately, I don’t have any experience with that. Sorry

[@romyro1]

what kind of AS and rear shock setting do you recommend for a Slick????

[@TurboJohnRacing]

I don’t have a lot of experience with a slick, but from what I have seen 75 to 100%. At 100%, the back should not squat nor rise. Most big power slick cars squat so their percentages are less than 100.

[@Rome3aaro]

Thanks for the good info

[@Wastegate79]

Awesome john, keep up the how to videos👍.always look forward to what you have up your sleeve.you need to post on Instagram too

[@TurboJohnRacing]

I have not used Instagram much

[@calypsoryan]

Those are pa upper torque box right?

[@TurboJohnRacing]

I don’t remember the name brand

[@jamieknight9636]

Thx John, just came across from Billys

[@skylortaylor4994]

im having hell setting up my new foxbody radial car. Dont even know were to start at this point lol

[@TurboJohnRacing]

What’s it doing

[@skylortaylor4994]

@@TurboJohnRacing spins the whole 60ft + ive made 3 passes 1.7 60ft

[@skylortaylor4994]

@@TurboJohnRacing i just uploaded a video if you want to check it out

[@samjones9334]

Love your videos !!

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@ZeroHucks]

Awesome Video, very transparent!

[@tylereller2283]

Come out with merch

[@twoten7697]

Man, invaluable info! Enjoying the videos👍👌

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@clint.garage.6092]

Awsome info thanks

[@twomontess]

My car has a wheelie problem. She went up on the chute last time out. I’m lost

[@TurboJohnRacing]

What do the numbers come out to be when you plot it? Could be in the front or rear!

[@moorespeedshop1518]

What’s your piñon angel?? John

[@TurboJohnRacing]

About 2 deg down

[@johntheobalt2303]

Love the tech stuff, suspension, tuning, reading plugs ext... how about a video on making your car hook in Mexico cotton fields? Subscriber thanks to John Doc.

[@TurboJohnRacing]

lol, those surfaces are much more difficult to manage!

[@codyfeatherstone553]

Love this video 💯👏

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Thanks

[@rainingbrass]

👍

[@blackman8795]

I hate when somebody makes a video that I really want to hear and they have the sound so low or they're whispering, what's up with that?

[@TurboJohnRacing]

Hmmm, I’ll see if I can get it louder!

[@thomassanders6679]

👍