Single Faction Tournament | RISE! Total War Warhammer 3 Tournament

[@AdamFBuchanan]

Turin's enthusiasm for the Chaos Dragon Lord. 36 references in single match. with notable, often enthusiastically said, titles such as Dragon Chad (1 times), Chaos dragon baby (2 times), Chaos Frek'n Dragon (1 times), Dragon Man (2 times), Dragon of Chaos (1 times). 🤣

[@RememberedOne]

please cast that game turin and show chaos knight value!!

[@lich109]

So I did the math on TOW Toughness 10 Dwarf King on Shieldbearers vs Chaos Lord with an Extra Arm and Runesword on a Dragon. Obviously the Chaos Lord will win on his dragon, however if the Dwarf King has a shield, then it will take the Chaos Lord 10 rounds to kill him. I gave him that gear specifically because the Daemonsword generates just as many hits on average and the Daemonsword can't boost your To Wound roll since it only takes you to S8 at best (he might even lose with it since he can hurt himself). Without the Runesword, the Chaos Lord on his Dragon will actually take 13 rounds of combat to kill the Dwarf King, meaning there isn't enough time in the game for the Chaos Lord to kill the Dwarf King, which is a fantastic deal for the Dwarfs because even after the price, the Chaos Lord costs nearly double what the Dwarf King does. Incidentally without the mounts the matchup turns into rock paper scissors, where there's multiple gearsets that counter each other and the winner will vary.

[@turinRTS]

You would always be running Ogre blade on Chaos lord! Try that one!

[@lich109]

@@turinRTS I forgot about the Ogre Blade, good call. With it the Chaos Lord on a dragon will kill the King in only 6 rounds (or 5 assuming you get decent stomp attacks which I'd also neglected to include in the original comment), so the King can tie him down for 3 game turns which, considering the huge price disparity between the two, the Chaos Lord is likely going to want to avoid (even including the bonus from killing the general, he won't make his points back). At the same time, I could see an argument for bringing the King like that in casual games just because either he's going to lock down the Dragon, or if the dragon leaves him alone the Dwarfs will have a decent amount of the battlefield the Dragon won't enter. Edit: In case anyone is curious why I said the Dwarf King would be like that in casual games, the reason is because Giant Slayers are much cheaper and for half the Chaos Lord's cost can tie him down for the entire game (thanks to the fact every single model can issue a challenge), ensuring the Chaos Lord will never make his points back or do anything useful if he touches them. They're a much better choice for a serious game.

[@JarrenDrahn]

@@lich109 I actually play dwarfs in TT. Dwarf characters never get to pick their engagements as you pointed out, the dragon simply ignores you. If they did charge you can actually win the combat with the dwarf lord from stacking combat res and outnumbering them, forcing them to flee. Unfortunately that's never going to happen against a competent player. Slayers are actually terrible if you're talking competitive because they're expensive and die in droves. The dragon can fly circles around them using it's breath weapon to get easy value. Sadly, the meta dwarf lists that have been raising the dwarf win rates recently are heavy skew lists that are obnoxious and not fun to play against. One recently came 2nd in a tournament and it consisted of an anvil of doom, spamming small units of 5 quarrellers, rangers and irondrakes plus the max number of bolt throwers and gyrocopters that army restrictions allow. The trollhammer torpedoes for irondrake champions are actually their best anti large choice. 3 units of 5 just for trollhammers are in most lists (more if no rule of 3 restriction). Playing against such a list is about as fun as you'd expect, everything valuable getting shot to death. Sadly dwarfs just can't compete in the monster heavy meta with more balanced or fun builds.

[@lich109]

@@JarrenDrahn I'm still getting used to The Old World, but that kind of list doesn't surprise me in the slightest. The best Dwarf lists were never fun for me to play, and they're even less fun to play against. The absolute worst was the ranger + miner army that you could make prior to 8th edition's Dwarfs army book, and I've never felt so bad about winning after using it. The Old World is certainly causing me to think differently with Dwarfs than previous editions because what used to be good no longer works and old tricks are no longer available to me (I really hope the Arcane Journal brings back the D6 wounds on cannons rune, and the standard rune that forces your opponent to charge that specific unit). I am surprised that you'd say Slayers aren't that effective since it should be hard to get good and consistent breath attacks on them if you had 2-3 small units covering your flanks (the flame template is only a little more than 8" long and I imagine you would want to tag more than a few in the front rank so your opponent would only need to roll a 5+ on one of the 2D6 to get you in combat), but I'll assume you know more than I do since I haven't had much of a chance to play much. I hope to change that in the future. I also didn't add combat res because I was looking purely at the duel in a vacuum. If I was to include it the Chaos Lord would consistently lose by 2 points almost every round at minimum and then would take every break test on LD 7, so they're practically guaranteed to be pushed back , or even flee before the King dies. It would be very funny to lose an otherwise invincible Chaos Lord like that however.

[@JarrenDrahn]

@@lich109 Yeah, I've tried slayers in 3 lists now. Tried small units but they die too fast to lock anything down. Tried big units instead but it's easy for your opponent to ignore them or tie them up with cheap chaff. They're also super vulnerable to any missile fire and giant slayers cost a whopping 19pts each but die just as easily as troll slayers.

[@Coopthegoon]

Cool pvp ability idea for demon slayers lords. “Oath fulfilled” when a demon slayer lord dies. Like actually die. Not unsummoned. Give a leadership bonus instead of penalty. I mean it make sense. Pretty sure Dawi would cheer and be rallied after seeing their demon slayer fall battling 2 legendary hero’s and a lord damn near solo.

[@berkekaradag1410]

Maybe not leadership bonus but less penalty would be better for gameplay reasons. Like maybe standard lord died debuff + "oath fullfilled" leadership bonus = less leadership debuff. Like -2 instead of -8 (i don't remember the exact number is it -8? -16?) But still this could be broken. Dwarfs already has very good leadership and also killing their characters are pain in the ass. After managing killing their lord and causing a leadership buff sounds bad for gameplay and balance wise.

[@Daniel_deez_nutz]

Nah, they would still be discouraged. Seeing your leader fail and get killed regardless is not encouraging.

[@xPureAndTheTaintedx]

In regards to Eltharion, remember he also got a massive hp boost in addition to mistwalkers barrage buff.

[@badgersauce]

Oof misclicking that juicy Slaupnir in the first match hurt my soul

[@turinRTS]

Same

[@joshuamiller7502]

SPOILERS: That HE v TK match was so good, and I think a hidden mvp there were the tomb guard, absolute Linemen allowing all the TK pieces to accrue crazy value, and being a big problem for the He player. Also I love Tomb guard halberds so much even just for the fact they might be the only(?) halberd unit in the game with shields, and they're the amazing tomb guard shields at that.

[@jedimasterdraco6950]

Not the only halberd unit with shields. Lizardmen Temple Guard also have them. IndyPride loves to see them combo'd with Brionna's Time Warp.

[@joshuamiller7502]

@@jedimasterdraco6950 I forgot about temple guard, i ACTUALLY dont think ive seen them in an actual game in months

[@N0ahface]

Every game in this one was fantastic! Want to see a build with Foottharion plus a star dragon or double phoenix. Feel like it would help his mistwalker barrage do a lot more consistent damage and help him grind through infantry, unless he's really overcosted on foot.

[@fridgeking6014]

The chaos dragon is still one of the coolest looking units in the game IMO with its head split in two. Very nice to see it doing well.

[@Satray01]

In the last 2 weeks I've seen several HE "buffed" Eltharion attempts on Dahv, Human Boy and Turin channels and I don't think anyone has won in the vids they've cast. The barrage is almost useless when on the griffon and when you do land in blobs he's too large a target and gets gatted down. I'd almost rather go foot Eltharion w/ your infantry and either a bird and dragon or double arcane phoenix for your airforce. HE need a little milk or some cost reductions on their very avg units.

[@fidelcashflow4940]

He got 4000 value against stuff that he wasn't even great into, I don't think the loss was Eltharions fault at all, seemed like the frontline was what lost for Hadres

[@Satray01]

@@fidelcashflow4940 Maybe - I think he's still an avg terror causing large flying unit with his only buff being a passive thats only useful when you're not flying, or gooning single targets. You can get a high magic caster on a DRAGON for 450g less and use those funds elsewhere. I'm just saying from the streams I've seen from the 3 largest WH3 youtubers - HE's are not winning. I love eltharion and I want him to be better - tired of seeing casters on dragons and Imrik as the only lords HE players have to chose from which is why the rest of my comments were towards HEs in general and not just Eltharion. Their tier 1 units seem overcosted to me for good leadership and martial prowess as the only decent stats

[@fidelcashflow4940]

@Satray01 he got like an over 1k health buff as well, high elves have always had issues with grinding on the front line, I think people are just happy he's viable because he's a cool character

[@iain-duncan]

Dwarf king absolutely beats a chaos lord because of the way that dwarven runes work. They can raise their ws, strength, damage, durability, etc much much more effectively.

[@Slapdab]

Thanks for running these

[@evandickerson3809]

Dude, I can barely walk and talk at the same time. How you can play and commentate so cleanly is incredible.

[@Zergling.]

About the marks of chaos, i dont know all units have them but in my opinion thematically they are something that works for mortals units, its like you gain the favour of a chaos god you choose, while for monsters its not much of a choice and just they got "blessed" by said god, dont know if thats how it works but for makes sense. For a more gameplay side i think the mark being a mortal thing is the norm (again dont know if non mortal/humanoid have mark count), and normally there already exists a undivided option f said unit. For the chaos dragon mount 1k more Hp and reduce their cost to 1300 or 1350 will be nice, they will become between moon and star dragon cost.

[@Rupertssons]

Another way of saying that is that the Mark of Chaos ability is used to denote god-specific versions of units that are available to multiple gods. The abilities have actual in game effects; if you hover over the Mark of Nurgle for example, you'll see it says Nurgle units get bonuses to melee defense but penalties to melee attack (iirc). So a unit of Chaos warriors aligned with Nurgle would have the Mark of Nurgle and associated stat changes, but bile trolls are always Nurgle units and so wouldn't have the Mark.

[@derekthomas2940]

Those screaming skull catapults simultaneously cannot hit a single peasant in a peasant mob and can hit a single Paladin on a horse with multiple shots.

[@facelessace2]

I thought I remembered WOC being pretty top tier a few patches ago what changes would you say lead to them being in the bottom half of factions now.

[@N0ahface]

Anti large hellstriders got nerfed, that single unit was the only reason Slaanesh and WoC were S tier

[@Batton]

Regarding the mark of chaos, do you think the limit of marks should be raised by one or two ?

[@gnome_de_guerre]

I really want to figure out how to use TaleSpire to run Mordheim or prolly more likely Age of Fantasy Skirmish games.

[@badgersauce]

Hell yes give me the full WOC + healing power fantasy to ease me down from this shitty Monday

[@MagnusElm]

Regarding Chaos Dragons an HE Dragons. It used to be that all the races Dragons(Including the Chaos Dragon) was on the same tier as the middle dragon the HE has(Moon Dragon) and the Star Dragon was a tier above them.

[@adeptusjoker7176]

I really enjoyed watching your play chaos warriors!

[@bigmoneyshmoneymaker7697]

how do you set up battles like this? is this base game?? or is this like a mod

[@Squrvivij]

Can someone tell me if the abilities of ROR hellcannon are not worth using? I saw that Turin didn't use them even once

[@AverySadBear]

Idk what it is, but skaven just feel meh. Which is a shame cause I love rat people.

[@TheDownrankTrain]

I wouldn't mind seeing you play greenskins in the next SFT

[@patricksheehan43]

I think bullet dodging would be fine in a 40k game. I think due to bullet speed as other people said it wouldn’t be much of a staple with most factions but a couple of them would be able to use it effectively. Also some of the much larger and more destructive projectiles would be easier to dodge which would make for a good balancing method to give things super deadly damage but if you have good unit control then you can avoid it. I would actually prefer if most ranged weapons in a tw 40k game had pretty low accuracy or if armored units had a chance to naturally deflect some oncoming fire to represent some bullets ricocheting off heavy armor if they aren’t heavy weaponry.

[@joshuamiller7502]

I'm more than fine with low accuracy, but I'd really rather dodging be kept as a sort of pseudo missile resist for some units rather than being able to pyhsically dodge them with micro. Exceptions obviously for things like rocket artillery or mortars, MAYBE some handheld anti-tank launchers, although not for any dedicated anti-tank. although that being said I could see the argument for things like bolter-fire, bolters being a pretty close ranged weapon if you didnt want to give them low range giving them a relatively low velocity, but other than that, obviously las-weapons shouldnt be dodgeable, autoguns shouldnt be dodgeable, most heavy weapons should have a really high velocity, like autocannons. I just hope they dont have pathetically low projectile velocity's that allow people to dodge bullets from 100ft away like it is now

[@jannikgluckert8501]

wow, the Severed Claw in the Norsca game heard no bell whatsoever.

[@dragour8723]

Didn't make it to the stream sadly, but as for a Trebuchet firing a bloated corpse, well Cylostra is technically a Bretonnian character so maybe she could get a unique treb

[@lashoes2207]

dat thumbnail is so perfect

[@davidbohn1874]

Hadres did great! At least someone repped the Elves. :)

[@fsnyman606]

Regarding the 40K setting I'm doubtful that we'll see one made by CA in the near future for two reasons, they have never attempted to make a modern warfare setting total war before the engine at tfe moment doesn't support things like rapid fire guns with every projectile that has to be tracked for a 1000 + units there is also no cover system in place so before they attempt it they need to make alot of changes and improvements to the engine you can usually see the direction they are going with the engine in the total war saga games that are released so judging by Troy total war and Phaoro total war the above mentioned systems hasn't been implemented so to me it doesn't look like they are going to attempt a modern setting yet and the second reason in my opinion is the OG total war fanbase who wasn't really gotten on the band wagon of the fantasy settiing and want another fanatsy setting which you can see in how poorly the multiplayer did with warhammer compared to older titles so I believe they are apprehensive of alienating the older fanbase if they do another fanatsy setting

[@ItalianCanadianGuy94]

We need a Legendary Lords land battle tourny!!!

[@dndy7784]

Why are tzeentch soul grinders banned?

[@timothymallory6706]

The fix to some area missile attacks that were hitting too few targets when they were supposed to be hitting lots of targets was accidentally applied to the Tzeentch soul grinder and has turned their anti large missile shot into anti everything missile shot. So they just wreck everything and are far too effective for their price point.

[@fruitloops1481]

They op

[@xPureAndTheTaintedx]

@@timothymallory6706 The soul grinder missile is a homing missile so it was meant to get the buff. I just dont think CA thought i was going to be this OP.

[@timothymallory6706]

@@xPureAndTheTaintedx Possibly, but the problem was defined as too many missiles homing in on a single target, causing overkill. and wasted effect. Which is not a behavior that is problematic for the SG, but rather the intended effect of its SE blasting shot. Either way, it is not the intended behavior of the soul grinder's attack.

[@FreshlyBakedLePain]

Vampire Coast should get a big ghost ship unit

[@travwinner2]

If your ever playing turin you can 100% bet he'll bring 4 marauder horsemen if he can lol.

[@RekijanGaming]

Such a fun stream man, thanks. Always loved the warriors of chaos ever since I saw that trailer Warhammer: Mark of Chaos

[@contrariancodex8038]

2:22:15 Turin: "We need some cap wait, we are massively behind on objectives" Narrator: "He was, in fact, up on objectives"

[@anon2428]

@Turin You have to watch M4 book edit of The Hobbit. It's sooo much better.

[@oldtoby4062]

Please do Grand Alliances again!

[@Anvilarm07]

Awesome tournament cast! For the Lady!

[@bigsarge2085]

⚔️

[@TheMilitantMazdakite]

How DARE you ban my beloved bulwark of the North!!!

[@badgersauce]

Take it as a compliment, fantasy Slavs too stronk

[@simondiebolt5354]

Great stream as usual! Please don't play Coast in the next stream, they're just so bad!

[@miaoxiaolong]

sweet baby inc detected

[@KakavashaForever]

Rings of Power is awesome. Wheel of Time is borderline, I feel like it could get good, or it could tank and be complete buns. House of the Dragon is awesome. Fallout is awesome.

[@Goony1246]

Idk man sounds like you just has awful taste or extremely low standards, but each to their own.

[@sethchaffin1999]

IDK Turin, I just dont think CA has the abilities to make a 40k Total War and make it good. It's more likely they are making an AOS in the works.

[@TekRobo]

That would be sick

[@lich109]

They absolutely have the capability to make a good 40k total war game, I'm not sure why you think they don't.

[@fridgeking6014]

40k would make them faaaaar more money than AoS though.

[@sethchaffin1999]

Oh I know 40k would be a giant cash cow. But I don't see it happening. Imagine space marines deploying in huge numbers and dying in mass? It'd look a little silly. Imagine a 100 man unit of space marines or chaos marines?

[@lich109]

@@sethchaffin1999 You should look up Dawn of War.