Turkenelli (Benelli M4 clone): a word of advice..

[@austingoodson]

Thanks for the heads up. I bought a Panzer M4 today. After watching this video this morning, I checked the pistons and bolt at the FFL. Everything looked good so I was satisfied.

[@jameylane1591]

You didn't pull a Darren at the FFL when picking it up? LMFAO.

[@austingoodson]

@@jameylane1591 you didn’t pull a jameylane and troll the comment section of random KZbin videos?!? LMFAO 🤣

[@fredbrackely]

tik tok

[@Natesgunstuff]

This was great advice btw I just got my Mac 1014 in today and I knew what I was getting into but I looked ot over before accepting it and everything looked good and I took it home and completely stripped it down and washed with parts cleaner to make sure there was no metal shavings and i took some fine grit sand paper and de burred the bolt carrier on the wear surfaces and the wear surfaces inside the recuever and cleaned again before shooting and I greased the bolt up and she ran 100rds of walmart federal birdshot (the cheap shit) with one user endured jam because my finger went over the ejection port other than that it was steller

[@zeme0556]

I have a Panzer M4 and have put 250rds thru it with no problems. I have cleaned it twice after each range session and have not noticed any peening on the rods or bolt. Time will tell. Thanks for the video!

[@smyers820gm]

Panzers appear to be the best at this time. I’ve seen 500 round torture tests. How has yours performed since you posted this comment 🤷‍♂️

[@zeme0556]

@@smyers820gm I’ve fired a few dozen more from different manufacturers,(all high brass) not a single malfunction

[@smyers820gm]

@@zeme0556 that’s exactly what I’ve heard from other sources. Please keep posting so folks can make a wise financial decision. These mudder flubbers want to keep people spending outrageous amounts of money.

[@zeme0556]

I’ve added a 7 fed tube from Dave’s, an olite with the sling adapter, the cheap adjustable stock from Panzer. I’ve experienced no peening on the gas system. Remember all guns are machines and all machines can malfunction. If it was a piece of junk it should show up in the first 500 rds. I’ve seen nothing so far tha makes me feel like it is junk!

[@smyers820gm]

@@zeme0556 Ty for the update 👍

[@TheColosiss]

Very good video. I learned much the same information when working retail. A friend of ours brought in a nice Benelli M4 and a thrashed M2. He showed us how to disassemble and where to check for any damage. He was selling most of his gear to pay for his treatments. He is no longer with us but he had taught us a bunch from his obscure collection. Good man.

[@postingid3214]

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. May he rest in peace.

[@roverwanderernomadvagabond6392]

So what does that have to do with Turkish clones?

[@TheColosiss]

@@roverwanderernomadvagabond6392 The points of serious wear are the same. The man took the time to disassemble his precious shotguns to teach us what to expect from the platform. The knowledge is interchangeable. That is the relevancy...

[@Texan_Patriot]

​@@roverwanderernomadvagabond6392He's talking about stripping them down and inspecting them, which is a major part of the video....

[@mgifford402]

Because they're junk..​@@roverwanderernomadvagabond6392

[@tommypicchi9601]

Thanks for the informative video. I just picked up a Panzer M4 a few days ago. Stripped it down, cleaned and lubed it. Everything looked solid, pistol, bolt was solid, clean, no peening. I added a Mesa Tactical Urbino Stock and Midwest Industries Rail. Breaking it in tomorrow with some high brass.

[@gatoraviation9588]

as a retired combat marine corp officer, I find the 1014 an excellent weapon. clean it well, de-burr the bolt head, and it will run as well as any Benelli. I'm going to get a 2nd 1014 for backup. they are as good as my AR shotgun. use Benelli replacement parts.

[@alcodie1558]

Right on !! I had a chance to buy one and I said no thanks . Saving up for a 1301 . Should take no more then 10 , 15 years or so , the way things are .

[@j0917DW]

Good video with explanation as to what to look for. Got my T4 over a year ago and knock on wood must have been during a good quality period. Ran light and heavy loads through it and it has been great so far. Lol you did make me go check my bolt and piston rods even though I had it apart a week ago when I put a 7 round tube in it.

[@DeltaBravoOpr8r]

Best video on the clones out there… Thanks… I’ll be inspecting my panzer m4

[@whiterabbit201]

My Toros T4 also had a soft bolt carrier. Sent pics and received a new hardened carrier. I'm at the 600rnd mark now and other than the ejector mounting screw and rear sight screws working loose it's been good to go. My pistons were also full of grease and had a torn o ring. It runs cheap wally world birdshot to Rio & Wolf buckshot.

[@clh7312]

Did you get the replacement recently? I can't get anything from Fourpeaks

[@Texan_Patriot]

Who doesn't *IMMEDIATELY* strip their new gun they just bought to inspect it? The minute I get home, I look up a takedown video and check each part that I can see or touch....

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

No doubt. Same here. And that’s precisely what I did. The issue in this case is doing it BEFORE you accept the transfer. That’s the key. Because you can refuse it and still get a refund. Once accepted and you take it home, the ball is no longer in your court. It’s “used”. Unfortunately, a lot of these companies are shady and don’t do the right thing when it comes to warranty either. Of it was a benelli, I would not worry. But I learned the hard way.

[@robertgoodrich8953]

When I got mine the LGS put the extended tube on it. I added a charging handle, side saddle, sling and Eotech. It has stayed this way for about 12 years. The magazine spring needs replacing, as it is not feeding the last round in the tube, so, it finally got cleaned just to be sure there was no ARGO issue(there wasn’t). Awaiting the Wolff spring, extended mag tube cap, and the bolt release extender. Took it out after cleaning and put 50 mixed rounds through it. I had forgotten how mild the recoil is! It is my go to Home Defense tool!

[@looloo6322]

I bought a Benelli M4 a few weeks ago. Collapsible stock, 7 round tube , and put an RM06 on it. Runs great, a solid gun with no issues. I did think about purchasing the Toros Coppola from Standard Manufacturing, but decided against it. I am glad I saw this video as my son wanted a M4 and was about to buy a Toros. I guess that is about to change now. Thanks for the video.

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

No problem 👍🏻 I won’t say they ALL have the same issue. As I have a sample size of 1. but there is definitely a prevalent issue and I’ve seen this same issue come up several times with others after lots of researching online. either the bolt being out of spec, improperly heat treated, or a combination of both. Anyone who buys one would be wise to check that before accepting the transfer. I wish I had but didn’t do a full inspection until I got home. Just trying to spread some knowledge so nobody makes the same mistakes I did. 👍🏻

[@Paladin1873]

I've returned three Toros T4 that I ordered for my shop. The first one had a canted front sight, the second one seized after about ten rounds thanks to a frozen piston rod, and the third one would only fire the first round, then refuse to chamber the next round due to a defective cartridge drop lever.

[@Quality_Guru]

Great video. It’s refreshing to see a reviewer being critical of products and providing us with honest content. Sometimes you get a lot more by paying just a little more. Other times you pay a heck of lot more and only get a marginal improvement. Usually when something is too good to be true it rarely is. Why just not go with a Mossberg or save up for the Beretta?

[@green461]

Import guns come soaked with rust preventative for shipping/storage. The entire gun should be disassembled and cleaned prior to firing. leaving that oil in the gas pistons is a no no, if left in there it does what you describe... gunks up. They should be cleaned of the shipping preservative and dry with NO lubricant at all in gas tubes and pistons, same maintenance as an AK47, any lubricant in there will turn to a hard varnish or gunk. Likely why some people have cycling problems. I also take every moving part apart and knock the edges and any surface to surface contact areas with 600 grit sand paper and make sure everything is smooth.

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

What I had on the piston rods wasn’t cosmoline. I’m pretty darn sure of that. Lol I have no idea WTF it was. 😂 or how it got there.

[@jamesking4024]

This is my experience as well. Clean the whole gun. I have found grease in the pistons of every Turkish M4 I have purchased. On a couple the o-rings for the ARGO pistons were damaged so I replaced them. I have not had a problem with any of them. I suspect the grease in the ARGO system can cause 2 problems. It can cause it to short cycle or cycle extremely hard causing the peening depending on what gets plugged up in the system by the grease.

[@tyronelee7467]

Just from my previous experiences from cheap import shotguns, I went ahead and degreased everything when I first got mine. I then relubed it using that siracha concoction that SOTAR gave directions on how to make. I've had zero issues on any of my M4 clones, but only time will tell. I did manage to find a clone that may or may not be imported anymore that is a sporting version with a shortened mag tube with a 28" barrel. It has a vent rib and no ghost ring sights. It's also showing no signs of soft metal so far.... My observations on the Toros, Panzer, and Giray (sporting version) are that on both the Panzer and the Giray, the o-ring seals for the gas regulator plugs on at least one side was incorrectly installed from the factory. This caused the o-ring to be mangled when the regulator plug was installed with whatever nasty packing preservative they used. I can see how this might cause one piston to actuate unevenly and result in carrier tilt with receiver damage...not enough gas pressure on one side coupled with too much on the other due to packing grease taking up volume. After drying out the gas chambers and regulators, I replaced the o-rings with some Viton ones (size 011). So far the Panzer has run ~500, the Toros ~200, and the Giray ~450-550. It's been mostly birdshot (from AA extra lite to game loads) and 00 buck (reduced recoil LE13200 to the cheapest import buck with roll crimps) with the occasional slug in each gun. No issues in any. Thanks for the video and I hope this helps.

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

I had considered that might be what it was, but the weird thing is, the o rings were still there. Extra one maybe??? Idk. 🤷🏼‍♂️ but the bolt body was definitely milled incorrectly. There was not enough ledge for the piston to strike its face square. Hence the peen. I also use SOTARacha. Sop for any new gun I buy and not build. Strip down, clean, relube. Chad knows what he’s doing. That stuff works great 👍🏻

[@tyronelee7467]

@@theuncouthtruth9551 I seriously can't sing the praises of that lubricant enough. As cheap as it is to mix, I just slosh it on everything. I really think the amount of factory preservative gunk would potentially cause problems in what is supposed to be a dry gas chamber when it takes up volume. Also who knows at what temp that stuff will flash or pressure it will diesel. I've been able to find NIB Turknellis for between 200-250 so I just got a couple for parts. We'll see how they hold up in the long run!

[@bobg1685]

Thanks for the info. My next shotgun will be either a Panzer M4 or the MAC 1014, so your advice is appreciated. Good vid.

[@heelirl6370]

Great info. I've been wondering about these for a while and every other KZbinr's video is just, "BUY! BUY! BUY!".

[@carlosjavieruhlmann]

This is what KZbin videos designed to inform viewers that are looking for reviews on items of interest should look line. Unfortunately, most of what we get are "infomercials" (adds disguised as "reviews"). I own a Benelli M4 and the "clone" you've shown can't compare with it at all. The Benelli is truly a work of art, a masterpiece, that has unquestioned reliability. The old axiom "You get what you paid for" happens to be true in this case. Thank you for an excellent video!

[@brandonchandler9032]

I agree 💯. I saw some the burn downs james reeves did on TFB TV and malfunctions all the time. I've seen that with others to just tons of jams and failures to feed. When it comes to reliability and even fit and finish you get what you pay for. I got 2 different benelli m4 LE models with collapsible stock and extended mag tubes and let me tell you the buy once cry once applies but you get a fine tuned machine that runs reliably and will hold up and last. You don't have to do anything to a benelli m4 out of the box with the exceptions of accessories like a red dot, sling, light, etc or whatever you choose. Me personally I'd rather pay upfront and know I got the Ferrari of shotguns. I got a Langdon Tactical berretta 1301 and it's great as well. The m4 has a longer track record but it's a matter of preference they're both awesome. Most people if you asked them which one they'd take if they could only have one they'd have a difficult time telling you and might laugh and say both. Lol. They're both great but the benelli m4 does have that track record in combat and durability about it that has been proven over and over again over time.

[@arm6075]

Literally nobody else has had the experience that TFB tv has had. The only objective complaint he approached having was that it wouldn't cycle very light target loads. Thats a subjective complaint. It runs turkey shot just fine. I don't care to buy clay loads for it. Apparently theres another M4 clone, nobody seems to care for it. I bought a panzer M4 and my friend ran bird shot through it. He was satisfied with how it performed and ive never had a jam. His panzer M4's aftermarket folding stock had a pin installed upside down. The paint on the iron sights on mine is a little off. Thats the extent of the negatives i have for it.

[@nuyabiss]

Other than panzer most of the companies use subpar materials and alot of metal injected parts.

[@turbinejunkie]

I agree with you for the most part on the parts quality but not the finish. I bought a marine grade finish Panzer M4 a few months ago and there's corrosion already starting on the top of the barrel just past the extension. I need to get some 0000 steel wool and oil and rub it down to see how bad it is but I know for a fact it's coming through the coating.

[@ericrumpel3105]

.....lol...glocks are nothing but MIM parts,...is that good or bad...

[@Fun4me75]

Your word of advice is solid in my books on this shotgun’s problem areas. thank you 👏👍

[@georgeheidkesr1759]

I can only imagine the low " thumbs Up " is due to you telling people what they don't wanna hear. This is a range toy best suited for someone with a little gunsmithing/dyi skills....................if all the gun bloggers told it like it is, then maybe newbee's wouldn't get burned with a poor choice. Personally, I find it a waste of $$$$......for a few hundred more you can get an A300 patrol or the new 940....no upgrades needed !!! Great Vid !!!

[@jabrown7011]

Been looking at various Turknelli reviews, nobody has mentioned this. Thanks for the heads up!

[@brianminkc]

I have a Tristar G2 that is about 8 years old. It is a slightly different design than the M4. I have put about 400 rounds through it birdshot, turkey, buck and slugs. Never had a failure, it has gone bang every time I have pulled the trigger. Now if I was in the Military or Swat and I was putting my life on the line on a regular basis sure I would want the best I can get. For most Americans that have them sitting in the closet the Turkish shotguns are more than adequate and the reliability is good enough.

[@elfwithabike]

Got mine and it worked great. But after a trip, duck hunting with 3in #2 steel. I noted that the bolt was hitting the back of the receiver eating in to it. Added a 3d printed spacer in the recoil tube and tested it work great still and doesn't eat it self any more.

[@tad2061]

Hey brother, I think mine is having the same issue, could you elaborate on what you did? I need to copy it haha I appreciate the help!

[@elfwithabike]

@@tad2061 I printed a 10mm tall spacer with a hole in the center matching the bolt that holds the stock on. And removed the stock then the snap ring and the buffer nut added the spacer behind the spring. Tested function and made sure the bolt can just barly lock back with some force. It will probably be a wear item so mark up your bolt and keep a eye out over time for it to remove the markings.

[@elfwithabike]

It was out of tpu filament if that matters

[@tad2061]

@@elfwithabike thanks so much!!!

[@tommypicchi9601]

Ran the Panzer today, it ate all 00 Buck, High Brass and Slugs I fed it. No issues whatsoever, I am a very satisfied Turkenelli owner

[@happysanchezjr.9162]

If it wasnt for people like you, junk shit wouldnt be available.

[@signal-0productions183]

Just got the MAC 1014 for $375 shipped to my FFL. After 100 rounds of various ammo, including 00B and slugs, no signs of damage yet.

[@briandickinson3721]

Thanks for the heads up. I hava a Panzer M4 clone on the way. I will absolutely check as you indicated.

[@updem]

How was your panzer when you got it? I'm considering between that and a hatsan bullpup

[@briandickinson3721]

@@updem It was not to lubed up when I got it, I cleaned it and relubed it. It shoots well enough. Haven't tried to add an extended shell tube or change the stock yet. But I would give it an easy 85 to 90 out of 100. TFTB did a 500 round burn-down test on the Panzer though and the one they had didn't hold up. Hope that helps... I think I will enjoy the one I have.

[@updem]

@@briandickinson3721 I believe the one they torture tested was the SDS imports m4, not the panzer. Panzer at least claims to have higher production values than the competition and their stuff generally seems like more care goes in to the process. When you took yours apart if it didn't have a bunch of metal shavings and gunk all over in it then it was a cut above already. Pretty sure if they had taken theirs apart first they'd have found all sorts of goodies left over.

[@Natesgunstuff]

I found an upgraded benelli m4 barrel made out of 4150 with the argos system for $200 seems like it would be a good way to go if you have issues with the argos system

[@jimheatherton7155]

I bought a “Genelli” and like all guns I buy I test down before I fire it. Mine was spotless inside I was really surprised at this. However there was no possible way to inspect at ffl for me anyway because I had to heat up the tube cap and use channel lock to remove. It had loctite on it. Then I cleaned threads and put synthetic oil on threads. Great video sir.

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

Locktight on the mag tube cap? 🤔 I didn’t even know that was a thing. Lol

[@jimheatherton7155]

@@theuncouthtruth9551 it was actually on the tube extension sorry.

[@bmartin863]

Nice tutorial. Seriously. Thank you.

[@richardaucoin732]

Thanks bud! This would have driven me nuts! Would you suggest a “ budget” 12 G?.. and thanks again

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

For a budget 12g semi automatic I’d go with the a Stoeger MK3. It’s Turk made, however it’s owned and run by Beretta. MUCH better QC.

[@wc153221]

As a gunsmith my issues with all the Turkish guns is sloppy machining and parts that are not properly hardened. One smith I know said, “The parts are just slightly harder than lead”. I have seen these guns break on the first round and many with less than 50 rounds. The guns and customer support are so bad that I no longer work on them.

[@alcmann]

Excellent video, thanks for the heads up. WIll be inspecting mine thoroughly now when it arrives. Appreciate the upload !

[@fubuh8r]

I was thinking of taking a gamble and getting one from PSA,but this video has changed my mind. Id have to see it on a store shelf if i decided to get one now. Thanks for helping me save the money.

[@LosDoyerss]

PSA has a great warranty. Any issues and you can send it back no questions.

[@johntatum5979]

My panzer M4 has been excellent. My beretta A300 patrol not so much, it is about to go back to beretta 1 week after purchase and I probably wont see it again for 3-4 months. .

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

For the record, the gunk I found in the piston chambers was NOT cosmoline. I honestly have no clue what TF it was 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@joejoel8962]

What if the seller has a no return policy? Can the shotgun be still declined before the transfer at the FFL?

[@elfwithabike]

Probably machine coolant.

[@dman2007]

What brand and model did you get?

[@Tomas_Mariscal]

Thank you for your unbiased advice!

[@Efische2000]

Thank you for the info! Pulled mine apart today. Thankfully no peening hopefully it was an isolated quality control issue

[@roberttai646]

Thank you! Your video was extremely clear and well-done. I always wondered why the PA M4 could be so much cheaper than the Ben M4 and now it is clear why. If I was buying a shovel, machined part, stamped parts, cast parts are not an issue. But this is a firearm. Most of all I appreciate you taking the gun apart and showing the wear on the internal parts. Now it is clear what you are paying for with the Ben M4. I have watched at least 10 other videos on the PA M4 and only your video showed me what I needed to know. And you didn't fire a single round!

[@Xabier2.0]

Great video, very informative, and you're very well spoken. My only constructive criticism would be to clean up the audio with a mic and your channel would very well. Thank you for the information.

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

I actually went and bought a mic recently. Lol. Audio is trash. No doubt

[@propdoctor21564]

Interesting piston and bolt carrier design which seems overly complicated and prone to trouble... Over the past couple months I have bought a 12 ga. Hatfield SAS from Walmart,, a Dickinson 12 ga. CK212TP from a local pawn shop,, a Citadel Warthog 12 ga. from Grabagun,, and a 12 gauge chinese-made JTS 12 ga. AK variant... All of these are the standard gas operated common to most semi-auto shotguns... So far they have all functioned as they should... They did not come with any type of packing Grease just some heavy oil which I did not bother to clean off... The AK has a adjustable gas regulator so it functions with low power ammo... The other three did not so I enlarged the gas ports and now they function just fine with the low-power stuff.

[@ManJunk427]

😂 overly complicated lol Tell that to the Marines... That have been using it for decades 🤦‍♂️

[@darrellbaxter738]

I've bought a few clones, and after taking them apart I gave them away. There is a standard, I require and the clones never made it.

[@miket1290]

Thank you for the video, I am skeptical at best to buy anything made in Turkey. I'll now gladly spend the extra dollars to make sure I have reliable quality in my hands. I live rural so if I need a defense shotgun and extra 500,1000 or even 1500 dollars is money well spent when the chips are down. Don't need to lose my life trying to save money I can't spend if I'm expired.

[@Spartan77]

Was considering one of these but I think I will go with a Beretta A300 instead.

[@outdoornewsamerica]

great video. we are getting ready to do a review on one of these and found your video while doing research. We will be sure and mention some of these points. Thank you for sharing.

[@postingid3214]

Thank you for producing this video and sharing your experiences. I'm going to save my pennies and get the real deal, someday.

[@barryyates5233]

Thank you for the video. I was considering a clone. I think i'll consider a little longer and do more research.

[@6string42]

I work in the industry and my company does some importing. We've dealt with these Turkish manufacturers especially during Covid when guns were near non existent at wholesale level. The frustrating thing about these M4 clones (and most all cheap Turkish shotguns) is that you can't rely on one "brand" being better than another. The reality is there are a small handful of basically no name Turkish companies making these guns. They link up with various importers and mark the guns with their name. The MAC 1014, Panzer M4, Orthos S4, and all the rest are all made by the same factories. The QC on these weapons is all over the place. And then there's the cost. Regardless of what "brand" you're buying, the importer paid $150 tops for each of these shotguns. Not even kidding. You get what you pay for and when you buy a gun that cost the dealer $150, you should basically regard these guns as disposable. Most of the people who claim to have zero issues with theirs likely haven't even run 200 rounds thru the gun. If you want one of these to dress up and run 50rds a year thru, it'll give you a few good years but the reality is that none of these guns are built to last. The quality of materials and skill that go into making a $150 firearm are downright pitiful. Just a few things to consider before you spend your hard earned dollars. Some of us, myself included, can only afford to buy a few guns a year. It'd be a shame to waste resources on a gun you can't even pass down to your kids. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[@lewisgarland4025]

Nice info but best check price on the beretta 1301 lol $1600++ upwards hard to find but you can get a A300 Beretta and it’s awesome for $999

[@garyking3697]

Very good video, thanks for passing on that information.

[@ronschmidt55]

Thank you for the video. Very informative.

[@Ballistikpapa]

Outstanding presentation, thank you. Just subscribed.

[@mattreid8768]

Great video. Thanks for the information.

[@anthonysholars4782]

Have you changed the stock out? If so, what did you replace it with and from where?

[@brianlisaw5816]

Good afternoon😊 I just now to stumbled across your video. Thank you very much for finally being honest about this particular firearm I think a lot of them are covering up the problems that they are really having! I think a lot of the supposedly great reviews that this gun has been given is people who just open up a box don't bother to inspect or clean or open the shotgun to start with and start shoving shells in it like buying a new Bic lighter for the first time they use it for 500 rounds and then it starts messing up and then just throw it away I guess LOL I too learned a valuable lesson too about checking it with the FFL before purchasing it. I'm pretty old school so I always take a new firearm apart I don't know what kind of factory oil is going to be in it so I always clean it inspected and put the oil in myself as I was doing this as I was doing this I was trying to get the Piston Cup out not realizing that Panzer Loctite every nut and bolt on their firearms so needless to say I broke it in half trying to get it out I found out once I heated it and got it out of there that they must have lock tite it and then that's exactly what they've done there's no reason to lock tite that piece because it's got an o-ring in there that should hold it tight enough when you tighten it back up . Trying to call Panzer and get parts is like trying to win a one-legged ass kicking contest and never answer your calls all you get is voicemail or they hang up! I left them 4 emails and 6 voicemail messages it took me over 8 months and finally they sent me a piece I was just about ready to start Benellizing it and upgrading it but like you said by the time you start doing that you come to up to the cost of the real thing so why do it! And to start with I practically had to pull my four-wheel drive truck out and put a chain on the charging handle to even get it out so that was ridiculous so I filed it down and got it where it would go in there real nice no reason why I should have waited so long and nobody would get back with me. And like you said I don't know what kind of factory oil they use that look like Milling oil from making the piece to begin with and then just never cleaned the parts they just slap it together. I did run the gun and it ran fine but I only ran about 100 rounds through it but I turned around and sold it for something else I wasn't going to take a chance on it never again will ever buy another Turkish made gun! Thank you very much for making a wonderful video I subscribe to your Channel! Have a great day!

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

Loctite on the mag tube cap?!?!!! lol. Wow. Yeah that’s a first. Never heard of that as there is zero reason for it. Unless you don’t want someone looking closely at your gun. lol. But I’m glad you found this video informative and thanks for the sub!👍🏻

[@brianlisaw5816]

No it wasn't on the magazine tube cap although that was the only thing they didn't put the Loctite on ! Lol😂. This was after you take the barrel off the gun . I was unscrewing the two piston plugs to clean the piston rods that are on the barrel. I broke one of the piston plugs. There is where I first discovered the loctite.theres an O-ring so really no need for Loctite here.

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

@@brianlisaw5816 ah. My mistake. I misread

[@panzerarmsusa]

Hi, thank you so much for a great video with all informations. We will be pleased if you may make a video for PANZER M4 too...

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

As much as I’d like to do a Toros vs panzer comparison video, unfortunately, I don’t own a panzer. 🤷🏼‍♂️ I have a sample size of one. A lot of the information I gathered about similar clones like Panzer is from research and asking other users their experiences (or issues) on social media threads. The issue of bolt face/ piston peen appears to be one across several brands. Albeit I had only seen Panzer mentioned once. It would seem they are the premium choice among clones the best I can tell. I probably would have gone that route if I had to do it over again.

[@panzerarmsusa]

hope you will have a chance to get new Panzer M4 and feel the quality...

[@ctrusfive5268]

Kinda of cocky to ask for a comparison vid. It also has me thinking that they believe in their product. Too bad I just watched a vid on Mishaco channel where the stock is falling apart as well as other stuff on a Panzer M4 only months old, less than 500 rounds.But the kicker is that they won’t answer or return phone calls to the owner after 8 weeks!!!! That’s a no for me!

[@panzerarmsusa]

@@ctrusfive5268 we have contacted with him several times even he said thank you for calling I will send you the gun for repair we never got anything

[@Sgt40K]

@@ctrusfive5268 I have heard their customer support sucks. I watched that video you mentioned, and I'm pretty sure that collapsible stock did not come with the Panzer M4. It's possible that it's an after market install, so it might not be Panzer's fault. I left a comment on their video, but they haven't answered yet, but did just watch it an hour ago, so I'm not expecting a reply any time soon.

[@Karl6464]

Update-picked up a Panzer M4 02/2024, looks like they stopped greasing the ARGO pistons. Don’t see any peening. Looks great.

[@Paladin1873]

The Benelli clones are made by several different Turkish companies, some of which are located next to each other with possible family cross-pollination. I've ordered over a dozen Turkish semi auto shotguns in the past decade and they have ranged from pure trash to fairly reliable. So far I would not trust any of them for personal protection or dangerous game. MAC is importing a couple of types which they swear meet their stringent specs. I ordered their MAC2 Tactical (not an M4 clone) and so far it seems to be reliable, but only time will tell. They have an M4 clone, but I've been burned so many times by various subpar Turkish copies that I skipped theirs. I did watch a recent video of someone who did order one and it was not reliable.

[@Paladin1873]

Well, wouldn't you know it. One of my suppliers offered a good deal on a wood stocked MAC 1014 (Benelli M4 clone) so I ordered it this morning. I think I'm going to regret this decision. (sigh)

[@johnphillips7066]

Many thanks for the video! Was interested now it's a HARD NO! I'll spend the $$$ and stay with the good stuff!

[@eltiguere7143]

Thanks for the feedback

[@stephanieroberts1394]

Key information. Thank you!

[@DarthWolfen077]

Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol bro... it's a 1K semi auto shotgun but is the only one you'll ever need.

[@danoman5217]

Stoger is a Benelli licensed shotgun made in Turkey

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

It is. And the m3k is awesome. They have a solid QC process the implement which makes them an anomaly as far as Turkish shotguns go

[@jcarney42]

I have the GF1 G Force, it’s more like a Remington 1100 clone. It runs though!

[@techking9343]

Did you change the buy stock because I’m loving the one on your instead of the pistol grip

[@bluesman97]

Good video.. thanks for the information.

[@anonymoussurname]

I’m not rich but the more I see about these clones it seems we need to just save and get the real deal.

[@scottdavis681]

I unfortunately not know any ffl dealer that will disassemble a firearm like that in the store lol especially if I asked them to order it

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

If you have it transferred. They are supposed to allow you to inspect the gun before accepting the transfer

[@scottdavis681]

@@theuncouthtruth9551 yea but taking it apart like that is kinda to far in there eyes. Customer service has went to shit since covid also

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

@@scottdavis681 I’d go to a different gs then. No reason to not want to know what you’re buying after paying hundreds. I’d look over every nook and cranny. But this one disassembles after unscrewing the mag screw.

[@scottdavis681]

@@theuncouthtruth9551 trust me I know what you mean I definitely look mine over, im very picky with my firearms. If that's all it takes to look at it then yea your right not to in depth on it

[@scottdavis681]

​@@theuncouthtruth9551 what do you think about the AKSA S4 and the Stoeger M3000?

[@DisgustedGenXr]

I witnessed this live on the last range trip after he got it back. They wanted video footage…. Like , can’t the fire it when they get it back? Lol. It only fire 1 second shot out of 5-6 different types of 12ga. All others could not get past the first round😂😂

[@gladstoneworrell5147]

Hey I watch your video on the Benelli clone. My company bought some Aksa. I noticed that one of the pistons was really tight in the piston cylinder. Any feed back?

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

@@gladstoneworrell5147 I’d definitely pull the piston out and check for obstruction on the piston or in the chamber. As well as if it’s in spec. You can pull both out and take calipers to them and measure for matching measurements mine had some weird gunk in it. It wasn’t cosmoline or a burnt O ring. Not sure what it was.

[@iancorrado]

I just got the MAC 1014 haven’t shot it yet but going to disassemble and clean it first

[@hfaceyjr]

I am in the market...but now I have concerns LOL

[@zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba0]

If given the options, This Turkey vs a Standard SKO? Thoughts?

[@accentsa]

I have one on the way, thanks!!

[@danielmutchler2268]

My T4 has ran flawless the last year I have had it but Going to be checking my bolt asap. I have about 1k thru it so it will be noticeable. Thank you for heads up. I was also wondering if the benelli aftermarket stocks with recoil tube would fit T4?

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

I can’t say for certain as I haven’t done it myself. That said, toros claims that all parts are compatible

[@popupheadlights]

How did it end up looking?

[@danielmutchler2268]

I will post some pics later this evening

[@2ndamendmentshooter]

Yes Toros claims it works and is completely interchangeable with true Benelli M4 parts and mines ran flawlessly for years.

[@hkmp5kpdw]

Who is “they”? There’s at least ten different Turkish manufacturers of the Turknelli M4.

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

“They” is Turkish manufacturers.

[@danielmutchler2268]

I can't post pics. But mine is good. I just stripped it down and looks good on both sides

[@richardaucoin732]

Have you tried the Panzer?

[@Gronicle1]

Good video. Straight to the info and no clutter. These guns from Turkey are starting to seem like machinery from China. Once you get one you have to tear it down to parade rest and clean and fix all the crap the factory didn't do, or didn't do right. It's like buying a "kit" gun.

[@ManJunk427]

Which "brand" did you get? Theyre not all equal. My panzer is excellent 💪

[@globnoggin8779]

Still working well?

[@ManJunk427]

Mine is a an AKSA s4 and still running 💪

[@lmglocks]

Basically it’s a gamble with those Turkish Benelli m4 clones 🧐 I’m glad I spent money on a real one!! Great informative vid 👍

[@rolyq1129]

Thanks!!!

[@larrydilsaver6098]

Dude, it costs 400 not two thousand. Its not a Swiss Watch. Deal. 😮. I watched a 500 round burn down, and it kept right on running...

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

@@larrydilsaver6098 ok. 🤷🏼‍♂️ anecdotal, but all the same, you can do what ever you like with your own money. It’s none of my business if you buy one or not. Just putting this information out there so people know what they’re getting into.

[@Young_Lord556]

What brand is your shot gun ? Those this apply to all Turkish shot guns?

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

Mine is a toros. But I have seen most brands mentioned to have this issue for some owners. Aksa, toros, panzer, and ESPECIALLY the Charles Daly. Seen that one mentioned numerous times. It’s more likely than not that you will not have this issue but it prevalent enough that it’s common and definitely something to keep an eye out for.

[@flacktastic21]

Do you have a better recommendation for a shotgun around the similar price range???

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

Stoeger M3k. They are a little pricier but I’d take those over the JM Pro all day. Those things run like Swiss watches. I’ve had mike for years now and it chews up anything

[@ericrumpel3105]

@@theuncouthtruth9551 ......lmoa....another turk melting potgun - you missed @6string42 comment.

[@datgio4951]

Just bought this gun, do you think I should cancel it?

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

If you bought a Toros, yes. For a whole host of reasons. Absolutely. Another knockoff brand? I suppose that’s up to you. Just make sure you check for peening BEFORE you accept any transfer. You don’t want to get burned. Will it work out in your favor? More likely than not. You may very well get one that works fine. But the “not” has a higher chance of happening than most realize. So use caution

[@MA-lq6eb]

💥Hows about the Stoeger M3K? That's a cheaper clone actually made by the subsidiary of Benelli & Beretta...

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

I love that gun. It’s been an absolute machine. Eats everything

[@Pappa052]

Does the canuk operator elite have this problem??

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

Can’t say for sure. But it’s wise to double check. 👌🏻 The only Turk made shotguns that I have some faith in is Stoeger. And that’s because as a subsidiary Beretta. Their QC is orders of magnitude better

[@OmerSadkAytac]

What is the brand of the gun you have in your hand ?? No, not "Turkenelli".

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

Toros T4s

[@odysseus516]

Where are you getting replacement parts for these clones?

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

Midwest gun works is gonna have the biggest selection of in stock oem parts

[@ph1l-1]

How has it been working since? Any issues with certain loads?

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

I haven’t had a chance to get to the range yet brother. Appears to be gtg. But I just had a kid so it’s been tough having free time lately. As soon as I do, I’ll put an update in the comments 👍🏻

[@ph1l-1]

@@theuncouthtruth9551 congrats on the new baby.

[@Gabthar]

Jus as guuuuddddd

[@scottdavis681]

Thinking about going with a stoeger m3000. Good choice?

[@chrisedwards9156]

It's a good gun

[@scottdavis681]

@@chrisedwards9156 I bought a mossberg 930 spx tactical and was very disappointed in it. It's currently at mossberg hopefully being fixed

[@chrisedwards9156]

@@scottdavis681 I will say at least with mossberg And my experience has a very good customer service. And I have gotten a lemon gun from them but they took care of it completely. I would like to hear how it works out for you when you get it back

[@scottdavis681]

@@chrisedwards9156 definitely. I'm very curious myself. There 1st response was to send me a new spring & the same ext tube to fix it. The spring was a mile to long & the tube had no end nut on it. My time is as valuable if not more so than other in my eyes. I literally have $1500 in this gun now. Bought all the upgraded OR3GUN parts for it and had to take them off as well to send it back like I got it from the factory.

[@scottdavis681]

Half the price of my junk mossberg 930 spx. Mossberg pump are awesome semi autos not so much

[@Tonyplat98]

Well it's true what they say... You get what you pay for... Like with everything else in life... I'm sure they had to cut a lot of corners to bring you this gun at the price it is... It's not possible to have everything perfect for fraction of the cost of the real gun. Same thing with fake watches as well.

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

Indeed. I actually got yet another lesson on this from Amazon. I ordered USPSA cardboard targets on Amazon for what I thought was a steal. I didn’t read the specs. Them shits were tiny and paper thin 🤣

[@leahelisegalea4037]

Can i ask what is the name of the brand

[@theuncouthtruth9551]

Toros

[@Rob_Shoot]

I’ve been doing a lot of research on this gun and other clones, and I’d rather save up a little bit more and buy myself a Mossberg 930

[@chadhaire1711]

cant hear you

[@curtisdowling3773]

Great review but your language is a little too spicy.