The Complicated Legacy of Gone With the Wind: Panel Discussion

At the 2019 TCM Classic Film Festival, TCM invited author and film historian Donald Bogle, producer Stephanie Allain, author Molly Haskell and author and film studies professor Jaqueline Stewart to discuss the history and controversy around Gone With the Wind on its 80th anniversary.
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[@carolynkingsley4421]

People were always asking Margaret Mitchell about the theme of her book. Her reply was: if the novel does have a theme, it's one of survival. The old timers called that gumption. I simply wrote about the people who survived and the ones who didn't. I think that was a good analogy of the whole story.

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

Mamie is Scarlet’s real mother...all of the way through...i love it when she stops Scarlet from running towards Ashley, she says, not unkindly, ‘that’s her husband.’

[@frndofbear]

Mammy was Ellen's eyes when she wasn't around, and the smarter, more aware Ellen who had no idea how cynical & conniving her daughter was. Of course after Ellen's death at a young age Mammy stepped into the role full time. But Ellen did love her daughters & was a good mother.

[@justicewokeisutterbs8641]

I have never read the book. I tried, but was stopped by Mitchell's writing the southerner's dialect phonetically; it drove me nuts. I've seen the movie multiple times. Anyway, I've always seen Mammy as a one woman Greek chorus, commenting mostly on Scarlet's manipulative and unethical behavior.

[@Dog.soldier1950]

GWTW is not a documentary of the era it’s place as the #1 viewed movie speaks to its quality. Censorship always has its apologist and advocates

[@carolynkingsley4421]

Clark Gable and Hattie McDaniel were very good friends off screen. Gable and his then wife Carole Lombard went to Hattie's home every Sunday for a big farmer's breakfast, which Hattie cooked. She had her black friends in as well. It was a racially mixed group and no one was disturbed by that. That, in my opinion, says a lot about Gable's character.

[@mackss9468]

Carolyn Kingsley, I didn’t know this, awesome!

[@MTknitter22]

AND you are so right - AND I like to remind people that it was a lotta WHITE rich people members of the Academy who voted for Miss Hattie to get that well-deserved Oscar. And this was 1939! She was not just pals with Gable. She had a lot of whites in the profession who loved her. Her friends said black activist groups used to bully Hattie because she would not get involved. She was a smart career woman!!

[@bsaunders]

Gable also threatened to walk off the set if they didn't desegregate the bathrooms, after being approached by a black actor about the problem. Gable was apparently open to fraternizing below his "star status" as well.

[@stpat7614]

Gable was reluctant to appear in GWTW. Could it be he objected to its content?

[@victoriazarate1133]

This is such a great panel discussion, with a seamless organized analysis and depth. Completely outstanding. It gave me a whole new understanding and appreciation for the movie.

[@JamesVaughan]

Very interesting discussion. May "Gone With the Wind" never be gone with the wind!

[@ron-waynehoekstra7007]

Am certainly not going to burn my copy . Just watched my copy on vhs last night and still love it . It is a story , it is the zenith of Hollywood story telling , movie making from the silents to full colourization , it is entertainment at its fullest . It is at the time full roles for Hattie and McQueen , who have to the end their lives been proud to have been a part of the filming . They continue to live on . It is still majestic , hugs , exciting . The first time saw it my mon took my sis and me in the mid 70 s to the theatre to see it as should be on the wide screen ! Since then have seen it 3x over the years on the side screen and will go again if near me .

[@joe_rockhead]

You do realize that no one in this video is suggesting banning this film, right?

[@SWpurgatory]

@@joe_rockhead plenty of others are asking for that & it has been in certain formats

[@annegosselin5849]

Gone with the wind for ever !

[@sorceress1986]

Thank you for putting this up, and actual nuanced conversation about the movie. I think those of us who love it, as with any movie, we take what we take from it. And asking the panel when they first saw it was so enlightening.

[@estherkessler]

Gone with the wind is one of my favorite movies. Vivien Leigh IS Scarlett O'Hara!

[@anna6790]

My favorite film of all time. ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@debbieking5171]

It is nice to see a CIVILIZED discussion with no one taking offense.

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

Now talk about what happened to Vivien Leigh in ‘The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone.’

[@gmaureen]

Hattie McDaniel, for me, is the most memorable actor in this movie. Loved her.

[@danielstanwyck2812]

i don't know about this film in particular, but in general, she's always memorable.

[@anniesizemore3344]

It occurs to me Gone With The Wind was between 1926 and 36. Between 1918 and 1940, the Daughters of The Confederacy had managed to get a history taught to Southern children more favorable to the Confederacy. I think a view favorable to the Confederacy is apparent in Gone With The Wind. During the time GWTW was written, and Maragarett Mitchell's childhood, things like Rosewood and Tulsa were happening. I wonder if Mitchell intentionally reflected that in the scene in the book where Ashley Wilks and other men burn down the town of ex slaves in revenge for the assault on Scarlett.

[@ryangreen2469]

My view of the story is about a woman who empowers herself to grow at any cost and to survive as a human being...... All set with the Civil War south as a backdrop. These panelists were interesting, they did mention quite a bit, however,no one brought up the scene where Scarlett's father uses the word "Darkie" and Scarlett's affection to Big Sam when he comes to her rescue at Shanty town. They did mention Roots but left out, North and South...odd. I thought George Stanford Brown and Kirstie Alley were perfect together, great mini-series, albeit difficult to watch in some scenes, hell of a cast and brilliant music. Thank you for uploading.

[@wjglll340]

Margaret Mitchell wrote characters with blood in their veins. Scarlett had gumption and the book sold us on that quality as the driving force of survival. Scarlett intuitively knew the depth of her own greed and I believe she sought out Ashley to tame her wild Irish soul as her father had with her elegant, French mother. To her mind Ashley brought dignity and redemption. Her refusal to accept that loss was the same blinding force that got her through the war and reconstruction. The tenderhearted Christian, Melanie, understood that Scarlett's gumption was necessary and she forgave her everything because they needed her and she trusted Ashley's honor. Melanie spent her moral capital defending Scarlett because she had enough self awareness and security to understand and appreciate Scarlett's value. It is a great story. The book takes it to another level.

[@gclever3322]

A truly very mature conversation of the film this is what we need to do instead of just calling for cancel culture.

[@toysgowild]

going to watch Gone with the wind over and over again! best movie EVER! and im half black!

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

I apologize... I will clean up these comments. Fascinating to hear about Hattie McDaniels and Lena Horne-my great grandfather saw Lena Horne live! Huge fan!! ❤️

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

‘I will not be hungry again, nor any of my kin.’ i think that she took care of everyone .

[@anniesizemore3344]

A audience member asked about a personal relationship between the actors and actresses. Clark Gable was friends with Hattie McDaniel. He admired her.

[@elliottbronstein1214]

Perhaps more than that.

[@tlw1950]

My favorite book and film.

[@HOOG00]

I think the film is obviously a product of its time so though we have strong criticisms about it, we can’t forget it was made during a time where the world looked entirely different. We have the ability of hindsight so we can discuss it, but I don’t think outright dismiss it from history. History is history, even the most provocative of history.

[@carolynkingsley4421]

Of all the actors in the film, Mitchell enjoyed McDaniel's performance the best. I think her opinion carried a lot of weight with the academy, and that had a lot to do with McDaniel winning the Oscar.

[@anniesizemore3344]

I first read this book when I was 16. I've always seen it as lost cause fiction written at a time when lost cause fiction was no longer in fashion. Margaret Mitchell interacted with ex slaves. She lived during a time when ex slaves were still alive to tell their story. She also heard stories about the South from ex Confederates. GWTW shows the wealthy planters ridiculing poor whites like the Slattery's and making an outcast out of Jonas Wilkerson for associating with then. Men like Ashley Wilkes are portrayed as honorable and a hero. But Ashely Wilkes joins the Klan and participates in the murder of Jonas Wilkerson, who was trying to help the ex slaves. Ashley Wilkes also participates in the burning of ex slaves homes. It happens after the 2 men try to rob Scarlet as she's coming back from the mill. Ashley Wilkes, Frank Kennedy, Dr. Meade, to name a few of the men, go to the ex slaves town and burns it down. We know about towns like Rosewood and so we know the horror that happened when mobs destroyed black towns all those years ago. Yet Ashley Wilkes is considered a hero in the book. There's hypocrisy among the characters about the choices women make about their own bodies. Belle Waltling is prostitute and an outcast. Yet the men use her as an alibi when the burn the town down. Mammy had more dignity than the other characters. Absolutely. But the slaves in the book were depicted as liking their status. There's a scene in the book where Aunt Pity says Uncle Pick, her slave, would never vote. Uncle Pick is shown as being dedicated to Aunt Pity Pat. There's is one scene where he makes his own choice. He is insulted by someone talking to Scarlet. He tells her he won't drive her anywhere again because of the people she associates with. Scarlet is outraged by him, but Aunt Pity Pat upholds his choice not to be a driver for Scarlett anymore. The man in the video is talking about the klan incident in the book I mentioned previously. He says in the movie the Klan went to get revenge for Scarlett and not Ashley in the movie. in the book, Ashley Wilkes participates in the burning of a ex slave town.

[@sedekiman]

I don't find it offensive. It depicts a period in history of America, that unfortunately existed. The world has changed since then, as have attitudes. People today are too easily offended, and want some apology? Why? I am not offended by, The Patriot, or Braveheart. Again periods of history, even though there was a lot of poetic licence.

[@carolbreeden8854]

Love that tcm shows uncut, commercial free classic movies

[@krispy6796]

MS. Stewart is one of my heroes

[@ladyorchid6389]

So naive i was to not know Scarletts men were KKK members to destroy that shanty town. Damn I just don’t want to believe it but it does make sense… 😔

[@LadyAmerican]

Thank you for adding this.

[@danielgudinojuarez6729]

Easily a great panel, it's more for educational purposes than say entertainment purposes

[@josephciolino5493]

If a film portrays REALITY there is no need to apologize.

[@anniesizemore3344]

In the book, Mammy was Ellen's slave and came with her when she married Gerald. Ellen had a failed love affair with her cousin and agreed to marry Gerald after he either dies or disappears. I think when Ellen dies she dies calling her cousin's name, but I'm not sure. Mammy was a strong character in the book. One of the panel members said they wondered what Mammy thought of Pork and Prissy. In the book, Mammy thought Prissy was silly. In the book, Mammy had a lot of pride in herself and pride in Scarlett. Mammy didn't tolerate nonsense from anyone. In the book, she did love Scarlett. I think Scarlett loved her too, but there's a moment when Scarlet says something to Mammy or tries to make her do something..i don't remember what it was. But Mammy tells Scarlet she's free now and she'll do what she wants. That might have happened when Mammy decided to go back to Tara toward the end of the book. Mammy is old and tired, and wants to go home to Tara. But Scarlet doesn't want her to go. Rhett gives Mammy the money to go home to Tara. it's apparent Scarlett misses her.

[@12classics39]

The fact that Ellen dies calling another man’s name and forgetting her husband makes for a powerful parallel to Scarlett. If she hadn’t come to her senses at the end of the story, she would’ve died like that; forgetting Rhett and calling out to another man (Ashley).

[@09rja]

I find it to be a highly questionable claim that GWTW endured much protest within the black community in it's day. Certainly the NAACP and other such outfits probably had lots to say......but among the average black person I've known since that time.....they've all enjoyed this film. Sounds like revisionism.

[@bsaunders]

I agree. I think activists probably had a lot to say, but not all members of the public -- or even all activists. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s church choir sang at the premiere; King, Sr., said it belonged to all Atlantans. King's rival pastor boycotted.

[@josephciolino5493]

The legacy is NOT complicated. People MAKE it complicated.

[@12classics39]

The thing about Mammy being so loyal and subservient to Scarlett has a lot of layers to it. Yes, it’s certainly problematic for the Black slave to be depicted as having such an idyllic relationship with the White characters. But at the same time, Mammy raised Scarlett from birth, and her mother as well. She’s personally watched both of these women grow up and blossom into their own. I think it’s rather natural and understandable that she became so emotionally attached to them, and didn’t want to leave Scarlett even after she was freed. I do wonder if there were any enslaved women that actually had this kind of relationship with their mistresses in real life… Then again, of course, it’s a shame that we’re never allowed the chance to see if she had any outside and independent aspirations. Considering that the last time we see her in the film is when Melanie collapses, and then she is nowhere to be found in the last scene when Rhett leaves, it can certainly be interpreted that she finally had enough of them all and left to take advantage of her new freedom however she could.

[@philipsmith4496]

Thank You for this!

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

you should also talk about what it meant to👉🏾white and other possibly, women, to see a complicated woman, and the jumping of black (men’s) rights and (white) women’s rights....in US history. it’s interesting.

[@elkanahgray9810]

Its a romance fiction...scarlet's childish heart desire for a prince in Ashley is the theme! At the end, she realizes fairy tales don't come true, and losses true love with Rhett Butler. As a romance novel its great. The setting is racist because it romances slavery...Gone with the wind characters are a reverse copy of the major characters of Uncle tom's cabin: Melanie... champion of the Southen Nobility that dies an angles death, but Uncle tom's cabin Eva St. Clare...slave owner's angelic child that is against slavery that dies young. Scarlet: a southern belle of determination,and hard work but Uncle toms cabin Marie St. clare is a lazy hypochondiac former southern belle that abuses slaves Ashley and Rhett are the split personality of Uncle Tom's cabin character Augustine st. clare: A romantic dreamer, cynical of slavery but never does anything to correct it. Overall, Uncle Tom's cabin istory writing is dry at times, but the moral points against slavery is on fire!!!! Gone With The Wind may be better written as a story, but Uncle Tom's Cabin is the most important political book in American History, .

[@beckylink]

Paralysis by analysis. 🙄 It’s just a movie! And 80+ years old! A damn good one. My favorite film of all time. 👒😊👒

[@katherenewedic8076]

disappointed, would have liked to have heard more from the panel....

[@sisterluke]

Hattie McDaniel by far, was probably the most sincere character in the film. She was no nonsense. Straight up and was probably the real mother of O'Hara

[@davidgiardina5424]

Hattie McDaniel was not only on the prowl for men. She also had many affairs with women including Tallulah Bankhead.

[@evancortez2]

Pretty soon the only movies you'll be allowed to see are Malcolm X and Shaft

[@TheLegend-nm8ji]

😂 this black lives matter thing is pure propaganda.

[@notchuckproductions5029]

Too be-fair Malcolm X is a great movie too, and think it’s as good as gone with the wind too

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

George Cukor directed the best male-female scene...it’s not about race, (but whoooo! nobody examines the rampant misogyny in movies!) #GeorgeCukor was considered ‘the women’s director, and its my understanding that he directed the scene during which Scarlet and Rhett actually have the one ☝🏾 laugh together, shared, without bitterness or sexist bs...during which she ‘plays’ ‘southern belle simple’ with him over the hat, and they wordlessly laugh about it. Ah! Had George Cukor directed the film...but Clark Gable was insecure. Pity...we don’t know how he would’ve presented other women characters. PS: the most shockingly racist film i ever saw was a 30’s/40’s Nancy Drew movie-i just stared!!

[@julianmarsh1378]

Cukor was fired due to Gable sensing he was turning it too much into one of his 'women's movies' which he might very well have intended. Fleming replaced Cukor and was infuriated that while he directed the female leads during the day, they were seeing Cukor at night, to get his advice...Gable's insecurity came from knowing how much the public expected of him and his fear he was not good enough to deliver it.

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

the clan scenario was terrible...Scarlet is rescued by a black man...and then, when i saw it...i was like, wtfuuuuuuuk? but i always knew that movies and the flintstones were horrifyingly wrong about women, and everyone else.🙄 they sucked. Worst line : ‘Forty Acres and a mule…?’ Although Ashley says, ‘I would’ve freed them all after Father died.’

[@BoBo-ti6jh]

I don't believe that scene had to do with the clan but her being attacked by members of a shanty town and I think Big Sam rescues her. I think?

[@bsaunders]

@@BoBo-ti6jh It was softened from the book. The hints are still there. Remember how Frank tells Big Sam, "Go home and stay there"?

[@BoBo-ti6jh]

@@bsaunders Frank tells him that because they are attacking the shanty town where Big Sam was living. The shanty town was composed of both blacks and whites. They were not attacking a black community. It was revenge because some members of the shanty town attacked Scarlett.

[@MargaritaGonzalez-qq4ll]

Hi excellents happys!!!!

[@SWpurgatory]

Boys in the hood doesn't show POC in a good light.... maybe we should cancel it

[@StellaWaldvogel]

There's a channel here on youtube called coldcrashpictures, with a video in two parts called "Should We Still Be Watching Gone With The Wind?" Part 1 is excellent, but Part 2 is a real eye opener. He talks about things that are coded into the movie. And yes, that opening screed with the cavaliers is awful, but the scene at Twelve Oaks where the men are talking, and shortly later when they're whooping and hollering because they're excited to go to war, makes the Confederacy look like the fools they were. Rhett Butler is the lone voice of reason. And then there's the rape scene. Rhett knows he did wrong and that's why he goes to London. It doesn't matter that Scarlett wakes up happy. He has a conscience, so he removes himself from the house. None of this is meant to imply that the film doesn't have serious issues. Slaves were certainly NOT happy to be enslaved, and that "Quittin' time!" scene is a particularly galling piece of minstrelry. But I think that even a child watching GWTW would wonder: Where is Mammy's REAL family? The implications of her loyalty and devotion to the O'Hara family are chilling.

[@BoBo-ti6jh]

Vivien Leigh never really hit Butterfly McQueen. That's ridiculous.

[@outinsider]

I feel this panel is also exemplary, centering Black voices and talking about the legacy honestly. We need to do more of that, if not to begin. It has to start. Molly Haskell does mention "political correctness" but Black voices are still centered. Stephanie, Jacqueline, and Donald really do a great job, and the points deserve a raise. Maybe Gone With The Wind (1939) should collect dust, but it reflects America's denial to discuss racism honestly. Ibram Kendi calls this "dueling consciousness"- let's recognize this duality.

[@oiooi6460]

Gone with the Wind's legacy is NOT complicated. It is not a racist film. It is simply set in a time when slavery was a thing, albeit thankfully ending (thanks to a bunch of white men!!!!). And it isn't about slavery. It is about the key characters and their survival during and after the war. So bore off

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

Next time: talk about how de sexualized they made men be…what they did to Sidney Poitier. 🙄

[@justicewokeisutterbs8641]

Gone With the Wind isn't about the south, the Confederacy or slaves. It's a fictional story about Scarlet O'Hara, a fictional character and how she survived. The film is objectively extraordinarily GOOD. The cast was perfect, the performances amazing, the score was superlative, and the production design expertly crafted to make the most of Technicolor. The result was an interesting story and an overwhelming visual experience. You haven't lived in you haven't seen it on a big screen. But, sorry/not at all sorry, it doesn't have your damn self absorbed leftist bullschitf sermonizing. Get the hell over yourselves for a change.

[@reneperez3043]

It's a great movie. Nothing about it is complicated. Just woke crybabies wanting to make an indue out of it. Destroy our history. This movie is amazing.

[@lynnturman8157]

Yeah, let's have a discussion of Gone with the Wind with a bunch of left-leaning, anti-patriarchal, progressive, metooers. Gee, I wonder what their take on it will be.

[@moviegeeksunited]

They spend most of the discussion praising the film. Is that what you were expecting?

[@demh7823]

You don't know what you're talking about.

[@samph3315]

It was a very intelligent discussion about a movie that they all adore yet have issues with it. BTW, if you have ever really watched GWTW you would realize that it has an anti-patriarchal bent because of Scarlet. All three of the women love that Scarlet has agency so you might want to edit if not delete your comment of that you don't come off as a total ignoramus.

[@justicewokeisutterbs8641]

That panel is a bore.

[@bobmcgahey1280]

I never watched GWTW until my late 60's --I personally think politics aside it stinks --pure soap opera and really 2nd rate. What you do not hear is that the CPUSA led the protests against GWTW--I know because my Mom was busted for trying to block the door to a local theatre showing it. Not only is it racist, it is racist schlock. I can accept literature which I find politically offensive if it is good literature --eg Faulkner's masterpiece Absolom Absolom which was written in the same year as GWTW 1936. I agree with the CP's protest --the film after all along with Birth of a Nation shaped or rather mythologized our history in a dangerous way and became the accepted narrative until the 60's or later. But I think that today that would be a mistake--actually the film editor for the Daily Worker gave it a mixed review and Ben Davis fired him (the guy later worked for hearst papers and became a stooge). I think these days judging movies or art by its imagery is dangerous but back then Black folk were being hanged from trees. Scarlet O'Hara is a second rate Becky Sharpe and I'd rather read Vanity Fair anyway.

[@SWpurgatory]

Calm down

[@SWpurgatory]

You should look up how many white people were lynched in each state.

[@nodnarbztark4101]

40:58 lol