Turning a Morse Taper (MT4) - Failure and Partial Success

I endeavor in turning a Morse Taper on my lathe with out a taper attachment. My success is mixed.
Please Note: I am a beginning machinist and I do not pretend to know everything. Please always operate machinery in a safe manner and if you don't know, find a reliable source. DO NOT COPY ME. I make a lot of mistakes. I provide these videos for entertainment only.

[@dahut3614]

Another thing I didn't get with my used lathe, the spindle center sleeve (and a faceplate, dead center, live center, dogs...). I actually turned a MT5 taper to go into the spindle taper for a stop for parts inserted into the chuck. Fortunately, I was able to cut the short taper with the compound slide. I used the technique learned from Joe Pieczynski to set the compound accurately. I needed this because I had to do a little production job for my employer- we had 80 "axles" which were 5/16" male threaded on both ends of a half inch diameter center section. I had to cut down the center section .140" on both ends. A local shop quoted $8 per axle. My stop went into the taper and was extended with a 3/8" threaded rod to a turned-down coupling nut to contain the 5/16" threaded part and catch the 1/2" shoulder. I used the lathe stop that clamped onto the v-way (got two of those!) and fed the Z-axis .140" by hand. It was very fast, but it was a bit of a mental challenge to figure out how to do it fast on a non-production machine. I remembered fondly the nearly new Hardinge DSM-59 turret lathe I once ran...

[@DudleyToolwright]

Isn't Joe great? He really goes out of his way to share his experience with the rest of us in a really understandable fashion. A born teacher. That project you had sounds really interesting. The setup especially. I would love to see a video on that project. I am really intrigued with solutions that people come up with that make seemingly simple projects still financially viable, because they always seem to take longer than expected.

[@Gkuljian]

For some reason I enjoy seeing mistakes. I learn from them. Most of my creativity has come from mistakes. Now I feel better about my taper failure video. You had a lot of steps in that process. I'm a bit surprised you had success like you did.

[@DudleyToolwright]

Thanks. I am going to check out your video and see what new approaches I could try. Thanks for the comments and putting yourself out there. There is always more to learn.

[@Gkuljian]

Speaking of more to learn, I took a CAT 40 and turned a Jacobs 33 taper on one end, which ends up not being accurate enough for a reliable fit. I have almost nothing to hold onto, and only one end with a center drilled in it. I intend to grind an accurate J33 on, if I can figure out how to hold this thing.

[@DudleyToolwright]

If you figure it out let everyone know. Another video would be good. Indeed, that will be a useful bit of information. By the way, my MT4 taper would hold fine in the headstock MT-6 to MT-4 adapter, but not at all in the MT-4 tailstock. Even when it fit tightly, it was only making contact in a few points. I have a tool post grinder, but figured it would be a waste of time setting it up until I solve the wobble issue. I measured the runout at 0.005 to 0.009". Terrible. Good luck.

[@stevecanny1583]

I expect you'll have better luck if you make a ball end *dead* center rather than a live center. With a dead center, since the ball doesn't rotate, any small misalignment won't cause runout in the work. When inserting it into the tailstock, you could improve accuracy by making sure any deviation of the ball from center is in the horizontal direction; that will get corrected out when you dial in the offset (rather than situating the ball above or below centerline). All the most accurate between-centers work is done with dead centers. As long as you lubricate, mind the pressure (just enough to remove all play) and adjust when and if the part warms from cutting, you won't get any appreciable wear.

[@DudleyToolwright]

That was really helpful thanks. I have almost zero experience with dead centers. I used them just once in school. I really appreciate the comments.

[@zephyrold2478]

Hi Steve, You have all the points that I was also going to have in my comment, maby I would just have set the compound slide to the angle, referenced up to a MT4 test bar to exclude all the variables.

[@DudleyToolwright]

I considered that choice. It has a lot of advantages, but for some lathes, that don't have a minimum 5" compound travel, the solution must be found elsewhere.

[@MaturePatriot]

Lessons learned, by doing, are not soon forgotten. Still, in all, good work. I feel sure you will get it dialed in. See you next time.

[@DudleyToolwright]

Thanks. I always appreciate the input.

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Thanks for sharing. Turned out better then my try.

[@DudleyToolwright]

Never hurts to try. A great opportunity for learning. I know that I sure did. Thanks for the comment.

[@mikenixon9164]

Good video. Keep them coming.

[@DudleyToolwright]

Thanks. I will try.

[@billsmini10]

I know I'm going off topic here and this video is 6 months old, but here goes: mrpete222 built a taper attachment for one of his lathes out of bar stock. This would make a good project. First I would recommend to check if you can download drawings for that really expensive taper attachment that is from your lathe manufacturer. Maybe you could copy it with some features missing. Or you could build a similar one to the one mrpete222 built in one of his videos. Just a suggestion. :)

[@DudleyToolwright]

There are two types of taper attachments that I am aware of and Mr. Pete's is the easiest, but effective. The one the manufacturer of my lathe sells, uses a splined shaft that goes inside another shaft on the cross slide so that you can still use cross slide adjustments with the handle when you are tapering. It costs about $1200. Thanks for the really helpful suggestion.

[@michaelfiller3452]

I like the whole approach, interesting video. Thanks! Was it really necessary to calculate the angle of the taper. Using a 5" sine bar should use a stack exactly half of that required for a 10" bar. I think your conversion to angle and back introduced a small error in your stack amount, .0003".

[@DudleyToolwright]

You brought up an excellent point. I was trying to show a generic approach with the math, but I get your point. Thanks for the input.

[@sharkrivermachine]

The ball on the center is a good idea for the taper turning. My casual observation is the the ball is actually too small in diameter for the center drill that you are using and it looks like is not making full contact in the center drilled hole. But of course since I can not see the detail this is pure speculation. Good video.

[@DudleyToolwright]

Thanks for the observation. If the ball bearing was still round after all I put it through, then it should contact, the 60 degree cone of the center drilled hole, in a circle (or ellipse when at an angle). However, I don't think it was still "perfectly" round, so you make a good point. I appreciate the insight.

[@jasonburns1407]

Thanks for the video. If you download a free program to your pc called web machinist free edition it has such a lot of great calculators with movement of the tailstock taper turning everything. Enjoy 😊

[@DudleyToolwright]

Thanks. I did just that. Much appreciated.

[@rallymax2]

I would have assumed center line too since that's how my taper attachment works.

[@DudleyToolwright]

Thanks. I went back and read through the whole section in the Machinery's Handbook and they never specify what they meant by taper in a tapered shank. I suspect that I am not the first. Interestingly enough, I did find the direct answer in the Wikipedia article on machine tapers. They even have a drawing that specifies what they mean. Thanks for the comment.

[@ke6bnl]

is Industrial metals your metal supplier

[@DudleyToolwright]

Seriously good guess! Yes.

[@franciscovalenzona1441]

why dont they show the table so that i can machine a morse taper

[@DudleyToolwright]

Good idea.

[@mathankumar6473]

Use dead center on headstock and tailstock.even a bearing live center can cause the wobble.i dont think the ball point center you made will help you.because the center hole on both end on the parts will be 60 degree and not a ball point hole

[@DudleyToolwright]

Thanks for the perspective. Every comment helps immeasurably.