Turntable buyers in the pre digital age and now, how different are they?

[@chrisblock6697]

My daughter's roommate, who is 26, recently purchased a turntable and some records. Her roommate said the records were very short until my daughter told her there is more music on the other side. Yes, this is a true story.

[@victorsixtythree]

Hilarious!

[@cmkilcullen8176]

very funny! love it..

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

Up next. How to use a rotary phone...

[@cmkilcullen8176]

lol!!!

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

@@cmkilcullen8176 I actually did watch a video of some kids trying to use a dial phone and not figuring it out. Kind of funny in a pathetic way.

[@stephenlasko9217]

The anti-CD bias is strong in this video. At some point, we’ll realize that vinyl record and CD listeners are on the same team, and SoundCloud, Apple Music, etc. of the world are in conspiracy against the livelihood of independent music artists. In conclusion, a great CD set-up sounds great and a great vinyl set-up sounds great, and both formats lend themselves to treasured experiences listening to a particular album. Moreover, their purchase supports the artists rather than the multinational corporations (this applies to music purchases of small and independent artists primarily).

[@rickc661]

this is basically my position, adding I still like the visual / mechanics of a finely machined tone arm, kinda silly but there it is.

[@stevebrown6623]

I was with you up until ‘conspiracy.’

[@stephenlasko9217]

The streaming services and record companies have agreed to share the profits and not fairly pay the artists in doing so. That is a conspiracy, more or less.

[@mag-wp6yt]

@@stephenlasko9217Precisely... Almost a perfect definition.

[@seeburg10]

Though I prefer vinyl and it's 80% of my collection, a well recorded and well mastered CD can be almost indistinguishable from its vinyl counterpart. I agree that the bigger issue is the artist not being prooerly compensated for our access to their work. Nothing produced by a oerson's labor and/ or creativity is or should be "free".

[@mag-wp6yt]

I never understand the hate CDs get! PCM 44.1 khz/16 bit with a capable DAC can be a fantastic sounding source.

[@jogmas12]

mag 1981 I don’t hate them there is just this disconnect associated with them. Where as with a vinyl record there are things a person has to do to get it to play properly like cleaning it etc....

[@thisisnev]

@@jogmas12 You can clean CDs too, if that's what lights your candle. ;¬D

[@jogmas12]

thisisnev dude I know you hate vinyl and you are saddened that such a dinosaur technology is making a strong comeback since you are a futurist “beam me up Scotty” kind of guy. But I make no apologies. Vinyl will be around as long as I’m around. Boulders rule.

[@jogmas12]

thisisnev btw, I never clean my CDs at least not in the way I clean vinyl

[@mag-wp6yt]

@@jogmas12 Granted a lot digital advocates love to hate on vinyl so it goes both ways, I just personally do not understand the bashing that goes on. Every medium has its advantages and disadvantages. The thing that really puzzles me though is this particular hate for the CD even compared to all the other digital formats. Imo 44.1khz/16bit dished up by a good spinner and DAC still has certain sound qualities that Hi Resolution files or streaming still can't match. This chap in the video condemning CD while at the same time almost championing other newer digital formats. Makes no sense.

[@brianmoore581]

A good CD player is hardly "an appliance", but I guess if you buy a CD player, that's it. You're done at the electronics dealer and the rest of your money can go towards music. But if you buy a turntable, you'll also need a cartridge, maybe a tone arm if it's not included, a phono preamp , a record cleaning machine, and a steady supply of cleaning fluid. More visits to the store might even get you interested in something else. Just a cynical thought.

[@jogmas12]

Brian Moore and that’s what makes this more of a hobby than just listening to CDs because you can choose your own cartridge and tone arm, and do other upgrades to your turntable to improve it. Making it unique in some sense. I have a 1984 Acoustic Research turntable that is highly upgradable I can change to a new platter, install a t- mount bracket made of different materials, install a different tone arm mounting board, install a better motor, even put in a better belt pully, improve the springs for better isolation, in addition to installing a better tone arm and cartridge. These things make the hobby very intriguing.

[@brianmoore581]

@@jogmas12 yes, you can do many things to change the sound of your turntable. Those changes may or may not be an improvement over what the original designer did. You can also do things to your CD player if you are so inclined. Change capacitors, change the clock, install vibration deadening material, even install tubes, and so on. There are people who will do that for you if you don't know how--and have the money. That is all good if that's what you want to do. If your hobby is tweaking your electronics to your own taste, then there's nothing wrong with that. But if you believe the guy who designed your gear to be a better judge of the sound of that gear than yourself, then you aren't going to mess with it. Some folks love to tinker with gear, and that's a fine hobby, but others are mostly just here for the music.

[@bellrobert1978]

Spend $300 on a cd player and you have a pleasant little enjoyable player. Spend the same on a turntable and you get shit.

[@jogmas12]

Brian Moore not everyone has a electronics back ground or even the equipment necessary to change capacitors or other electronic improvements on a CD. But just about anyone handy with screw driver and basic knowledge can do all the changes I mentioned on a turntable. And what is this about improvements made on a turntable will not improve the sound? Certainly an aftermarket tone arm will be better than the original stock arm and that new tone arm will be able to accommodate better sounding cartridges. Just as an example. CD players can burn out thus making them disposable after use. Just buy a new one. I have had my turntable since 1984 and still in use today still providing great sound.

[@brianmoore581]

@@jogmas12 well, I certainly didn't intend to upset you, and I really don't care to argue about it. I'll just repeat a few things that maybe you missed the first time I replied to you. I said you can make changes that "may or may not" be an improvement. No every change you make isn't guaranteed to be an improvement. Or possibly you did improve one area to the detriment of another. Every tone arm or cartridge you change isn't guaranteed to be better than the last. As for changing electrical components in your CD player, I said there are people who know how to do that for you if that's something you are interested in. And if your laser burns out, you can always get a new one. Such things are repairable. In fact, a very little skill will allow you do do that yourself. If not, you can always send it in for repairs. Now, we are talking about high-end audio here, so I doubt very many folks around here consider their CD players as disposable. My own player is an Ayre C-5xeMP. I think it cost $6,000. No, when the laser burns out I will not be tossing my player in the trash. The good folks at Ayre can fix that for me.

[@RedTTHayo]

Amazing. I guess that after the interview he rode home on his horse and buggy. Because that is the authentic way to travel

[@Hare_deLune]

Nope. Walking.

[@RedTTHayo]

@M Pi thank you for sharing your stupid opinion

[@stevesmyth4982]

Going back 30 years or so I can remember reading an article about CD sound versus vinyl sound. Mum and dad and 12 year old son attended an orchestral concert, when the concert had ended the son was asked what he thought of the sound, was it more like CD or more like vinyl, the son replied vinyl. My turntable is a 45 year old Linn Sondek LP12, the preamp is a Naim NAC 12, and on the rare occasion when I play vinyl I feel what's best described as a relief from listening to digital sound. Loudspeakers are four pairs of Quad ESL57s and a T-line stereo subwoofer.

[@jamesindrihovic7247]

What a great interview I'm 61 with 700 albums mint condition but still listen to mostly cds for convenience. Got a tecknics sl165 0 in 1978 got it serviced like new .my system seems complete again with my turntable

[@swinde]

I have a large collection of vinyl and equipment from the 70s to play it with, but probably every recording I have purchased since 1985 have been CDs. I still have the Sony CD player from 1985 that cost $400.00 at the time and it still works beautifully. Even with the best of care vinyl will develop clicks and pops, but CDs with very minimal care with play flawless for decades. I think CDs may have been hurt by the poor recording techniques of the mid 90s to 2000s when compression got out of control. To me a properly recorded CD is just as good as vinyl.

[@jamesjoyce2528]

CDs are even better. So is lossless digital. The only reason vinyl survives is $$$ to be made from so-called "audiophiles," aka suckers.

[@carmenandthedevil2804]

That Sony CD player from 85 sounds like shit. Seriously! Cloth ears man. I was really excited about the CD format release as I was also in the business. We sold Sony, Marantz, Akai, Hitachi and JVC CD players when they first came out and I remember getting the "Ice Cream" aches in my forehead and wondering where the transients and presence had gone. I stream in stead of playing the radio now, but when I want to listen seriously to some music, on goes the LP.

[@LouisWinthorpe622]

@@carmenandthedevil2804 'transients and presence from an lp'; my fuckin' arse. The limitations even the greatest mastering for a primitive vinyl record in no way can match the dynamics, presence, transparency, beauty and weight of a well recorded, well mastered, compact disc. Check The Verve's 'Urban Hymns' cd, then vinyl and weep.

[@swinde]

M Pi ... Well there are some people (most) that throw their records around and spill beer on them and leave them in a pile for days and rarely return them to their jackets. A few other people like me who appreciates music immediately return LPs to their jackets and CDs to their cases after playing. The key is to NEVER leave CDs or LPs "laying around".

[@swinde]

Wimbo 9 ... That Sony CD player Is a CDP- 302. It is much better built than any CD deck that can be purchased today. Of course today's decks support DVD and Blu-Ray which it does not, but it WILL play CD-R discs which were not even available in 1985.

[@bellrobert1978]

I'm the 40 something person he's talking about in the video growing up with CDs. I've just setup my dad's old turntable and I'm just not getting it yet. Give me a CD any day.

[@curtispennington889]

You're OK. There's nothing to "get". And I say this as an old man - lol.

[@johnholmes912]

try playing the led zeppelin studio albums on cd then play them on vinyl.........you'll be surprised

[@jamesallen5591]

I've gone through the full cycle, including streaming. I now have both CDs and vinyl records. Having been born into and raised in an analog world my opinions are now set in stone. Nobody will ever be able to convince me that vinyl sounds better than a CD. Never. Because it's B.S. I got back into vinyl because I like the collecting aspect of it as well as the tactile/art aspect of the album/album cover. Vinyl does sound very good; just don't try to sell me on the idea that it sounds better than a CD. It doesn't.

[@vncstudio]

Yes. Records can make sense for older recorded music.

[@jblackjack]

Reel to Reel is the closest to the original recordings that were made on master tape. The original format .

[@jeffsmith4110]

I'm with you on that -- too much snap crackle and pop. Plus, there is a real sense that every time you play vinyl, it is degraded to some extent -- even on the finest players.

[@De_La_Soto]

I came from the CD era and I always loved looking through the booklet at lyrics, notes, etc. Same thing now with vinyl - there's something different about actually owning the album and having it in your hands. I don't mind streaming at times, especially when I'm introduced to a new artist, but there's nothing like the physical experience.

[@AndyBHome]

By some of the logic about "vinyl engagement" toward the end of this video, an even better turntable would require you to turn the platter by hand. That would be even more compelling because you become an even bigger part of the playback process.

[@Hare_deLune]

Wow, flutter!

[@amb3cog]

😂

[@chrisblock6697]

My other daughter, who is 29, and her husband gave me a vintage turntable (Philips GA-312 along with a Neil Young and Coltrane albums) last Christmas to go with my vintage stereo equipment (C22, MC240, C26 and MC2505). Pretty cool kids, huh? They re-ignited the bug and I've spent about $3K on more gear and music since then.

[@brentonratcliffe7089]

I entertained the idea of going back to vinyl when the resurgence started, but ultimately abandoned it, because vinyl is expensive and storage is a pain.

[@Baerchenization]

Just this morning, I virtually bumped in to some guy who made the point that back in the 70s, he paid 5.19 dollars for an LP, that is when vinyl was cheap, and today it would be ridiculously expensive. Now, I have limited insight in to the new vinyl market, but I gonna tell you that if you put 5.19 in to an inflation calculator, that is 34 dollars in 2019, surprise-surprise... A few days ago, I bought all the re-releases of Bauhaus by Beggarz on coloured vinyl, 15 Brit Pounds each. I noticed a few DG releases from 2018, which seem to go for 15-20 Pounds. So it turns out vinyl is not expensive, or at least it has not gotten more expensive than it used to be. Storage is still a pain though. I also bought like 500+ CDs as box sets, they don't take up any space at all like that.

[@ryacus]

I've got obscure tastes which up's the cost even more it's not even feasible for me haha.

[@markthorens8724]

My first CD player (mission pcm 4000) sounded so boring but cds have sounded great for decades now. Love having the physical media that actually belongs to me.

[@3lueant347]

the fatal flaw here, arrogance aside, is the simplistic judgmental position against recording format and delivery mechanisms delivered in a form no more useful than "I like chocolate and those who are happy with vanilla are the unwashed heathen out in the wilderness." weak, mr singer. complicit mr G.

[@truebluemiata]

I recently discovered Steve. Am really intrigued by the resurgence of the LP. I'm 61 so was able to have some entry level audiophile gear in college. There were some solid reasons for embracing the CD: the snap crackle pop that crept into even well maintained LPs, that last track distortion due to elliptical stylus rotation, and the eventual damage that came with repeated plays. All addressed by the upstart new format. But, I do recall a listening session with my Dad years ago where we cued up an all analog LP and a digitally remastered CD of the same classical recording, synced so we could A/B them over a good set of electrostatic headphones. The best way to explain the difference was the CD was super clean yet 2 dimensional in some way, while that LP had presence. It still sticks with me some 30 years later. I've got to look at this analog thing again.

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

Check out LAST record preservative and cleaners you will be amazed. Pricey, but "worth it".

[@BlankBrain]

I miss the manual chokes on cars, but not the manual spark advance on the column.

[@jimminychristmas8100]

Records are great, streaming is great, and CDs are great, we all know they are just different formats. If the music is good, I could give two shits about how it's delivered.

[@brooklynbummer]

Vinyl is good for many. There are recordings that have never been moved to CD. Some music that was moved from vinyl to CD were poorly done. I treasure the music and the performances and will use what ever medium that allows me to listen to music.

[@TheMirolab]

Why grind & brew your own coffee when you can go to Starbucks? Why prepare & cook your own food when you can just buy a hot meal? Why build something yourself when you can buy it for cheaper & better right off the shelf. There is a certain SATISFACTION to doing things yourself and being more involved in the process. Humans are built to DO things. Simply hitting the play button on your smartphone (jeez, it's not even a real button!) to play a file that doesn't really exist, feels so disconnected from the music.

[@juliaset751]

Sometimes it gets pretty silly for the sake of “convenience”. I saw a program on PBS’s Ask this old house where a guy had his bedroom walls and ceiling tore up and rewired to install a Bluetooth switch so he could lay in bed and turn off his table lamp with his phone. He could have just reached over and flicked the switch.

[@china1984able]

Some time ago I was at the postoffice in line waiting to get a package. Two girls in front of me were talkin’ about the box they were supposed to deliver at the desk. It was pizza box-sized and one said to the other that inside the box were big black discs but she couldn’t tell to her friend what it was. I was amused and became definately aware that our time is running out.

[@raymondread9484]

I bought a DUAL CS460. Beatifully finished Walnut. Fully automatic DC belt drive @ 33 1/3; 45 and 78 rpm.

[@ifly65]

Another analogy is Slide film vs digital photos; Using a great SLR camera, the sounds the motor drive makes, the labor each roll takes to shoot properly and develop, the sharp rich pictures a pro hand cut glass lens produces. Just like a turntable, stylus and vinyl.

[@joybrucebruce3377]

My brother in law related this story about ten years ago. He is a pediatrician and had on the walls of his office some music themed posters. A little girl came in with her mother and was in one of the offices and he heard the little girl ask the mother, "Momma what are those things in that picture". The picture had a number of lp's displayed". He said he thought to himself "Man I'm getting old". Then the mother replied " I don't know what those things are". He said he concluded: "Damn I am old"

[@wildcat1065]

All the media have pros and cons The ritual of vinyl makes it involving for some and a masochistic pain in the butt for others. Sound quality is on a per recording basis for me.

[@GustoTheGamer]

I love CDS over vinyl! Cheap, easy and great sounding. In 2030 CDS Will become collectable like vinyl. Out of print and hard to find cds is the next thing. With streaming you own nothing........

[@Splenda257]

You own nothing material with streaming, but you have access to a music collection larger than you could amass. If you want to get more technical about it, your ownership rights of a CD are pretty limited. You own the physical CD, but not any of the intellectual property recorded on the CD.

[@bellrobert1978]

I agree. People can't give cds away at the moment. Buy them all up while you can. People are now buying up cassette decks and tapes for fuck sake!!!

[@dorincroitoru5913]

You seem to be missing the fact that most CDs have quite the limited lifetime, even without any wear or use. After 20 or so years the metal begins to chip away from the plastic support cdm.link/2017/02/a-generation-of-cds-is-already-rotting-and-dying/

[@vncstudio]

@M Pi Downloading files and storing files was a stupid idea. Glad I never did that. My computers have failed a few times but I had backups. Tidal Hi-Fi streaming on demand is much better.

[@PatCrowe]

@@smitty9398 3 copies. 2 copies on site and 1 off site in case the first two are unable to be read. Periodically swap the 2nd copy and off site to update the off site copy.

[@mag-wp6yt]

Evidently a lot of the hate towards CD from vinyl lovers stems from the time of the initial release of the CD and the predicted consequences it was supposed to have on their beloved medium. Vinyl obviously isn't going anywhere so the hate can stop, however these wounds seem unable to heal. Christ, mp3 gets less hate than CD....now that's truly absurd.

[@davepastern]

you're obviously very young, and very naive. Firstly, we never called it "vinyl" back in the days. Records, LPs, EPs, 12 inchers, 7 inchers. I never *ONCE* heard the term "vinyl" back in the day. Vinyl is a term that the new fangled modern kid has adopted, and sadly, the industry has went with it, rather than reminding this younger generation about the history of records. Secondly, LPs were more popular than CD, but the music industry/labels, distributors and record stores deliberately colluded with each other to NOT stock LPs, making them very difficult to get, even though they were still in production, and still popular. Lastly, LPs soundly trounced CDs sound wise back in the day. Today's pressings are usually on crappy vinyl material, badly mastered, and badly pressed, and sold for rip off prices.

[@charlesgrubbs2101]

Vinyl lovers didn't dislike CDs because they were going to replace vinyl. It was because CDs were such a huge disappointment. They were hyped as being far and away better sounding than vinyl. Yes, there were no clicks and pops, but there was also cold, sterile bright sound and very little emotional connection to the music. I bought one of the first CD players and ten discs, took it home and installed it in my system. I put in a disc and hit play. I was expecting glorious, beautiful music and got bright hard noise instead. It has taken more than 25 years of upgrading and refinement for CDs to reach the point where I no longer consider them uniformly inferior to vinyl.

[@davepastern]

​@@charlesgrubbs2101 I didn't say we disliked CDs because they were replacing vinyl. I said that the record labels and distributors etc worked together to make LPs scarce in the stores and almost impossible to buy, leaving CDs as the *only* choice. That is a big reason, from my experience living through the 80s as to LPs artificial demise back then. Not because they were inferior sound quality as many would surmise. You are quite correct with regards to the general tone of *most* CDs. This is due to terrible mastering processes, and digital recording, neither of which do music any good imho. I was never taken in by the CD BS mantra btw.

[@jeffsmith4110]

Many years ago, I gave my daughter some of my record albums and she exclaimed to her mother, "Daddy gave me some of his big CDs."

[@chasevineland1508]

I love all the formats streaming/mp3, cd, vinyl, 8 track, reel to reel, to cassettes. We live in an era where music is so accessible and listening to music is so convenient. I’m looking forward to the next music revolution! Maybe neural music directly to the brain. PS. Absolutely correct on manual cars. I have a car with paddle shifters - never use it. Manual transmissions truly bring connection to the vehicle, road, and body.

[@denniswaske]

would be an interesting video to do a walk around at sound by singer. willing to bet that many viewers have never had the opportunity to experience a high end stereo shop.

[@Hare_deLune]

Excellent idea!

[@adotopp1865]

yes

[@z-mackdos6echo311]

Another aspect of playing vinyl is going to buy it. You had to leave your home and go to Tower Records, the Where House, Licorice Pizza, Virgin Records, Music Plus and any of the record stores in existence during the time vinyl was the dominant medium for audio reproduction. You got in your car with a manual shift with four on the floor, dual exhaust, four barrel carburetor getting 10 miles to a gallon and physically buy an album, as opposed to point and click and download or stream it. The social interaction with others IRL sharing your enthusiasm for the artists and cover art work. Sigh! Fun times!

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

Even though working at McDonalds in 1969 did suck, the cars back then were awesome as you know. The big social scene was driving there and hanging out and showing off of course. I made it through about 4 months at 1.45 an hour. What a greasy nasty place but as they say a "learning experience". Hey I was 16.

[@jamesmiller4184]

@@JohnDoe-np3zk All part of The American Experience, John. Oh! - Sixteen was good, and that you are around STILL to tell us about it, even better! Onward and upward. . : .

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

@@jamesmiller4184 check out my hero Mia Morris she is only 15 but in 5 short years has grabbed the world and made it hers. Plus, she is very nice and smart too.

[@joshpeters7392]

Okay - it's time to put an end to this debate about "what the artist intended" or how some source from the 60's sounds SO much better. The facts are these: Growing up, people 75 or older had mono LPs to listen to or mono radio. In the late 60's, when people 60 to 75 today, would have been coming to a more "enlightened age", stereo was first introduced. The first 4 Beatles albums were released in mono. Their next two was 2 track stereo (So instruments would come from one speaker and the voices would come from the second.) And it wasn't until the late 60's where 8 and 16 track recordings were mastered into what we have now as stereo sound. It isn't that vinyl is better, it's that it matured at the same time that baby boomers were coming to listen, and buy, their own music. Furthermore, no one can tell me with a straight face that mono, or two track LPs, sound better than ANYTHING appropriately remastered in digital today. At least if you care about sound stage, imaging, depth, sound floor and accuracy. With the release of every new music format in the last 80 years, there have been technical issues, a learning curve by studios, and a maturity that happens with time. Yes, early CD's stunk. But as with all other formats, with time, they got better. I grew up streaming napster. Yes, it was awful at first. But streaming Tidal today is undeniably good, no matter the original source. And at least in my circle of friends, the reason we love vinyl isn't because it's better, or richer, or any of that crap.... It's because it forces us to listen to what is being played, instead of browsing or skipping to the song we want to hear next. There is a romance to an LP. There is a physical contact with our music. There is care taken to play vinyl. It's awesome! But not better. Just different. My kids generation will most likely revive CD's. And my grandkids might listen to 64kb/s napster recordings for the heck of it. But what drives me nuts is hearing arguments made by people, as you did in this video, where you want to "respect the artist." You make it sound as though people who stream that same music, or listen to it via CD, are somehow disrespecting the artist. But if you aren't listening in a mono only setup, one speaker only, how is it that you're respecting the artists intentions anymore than others?

[@georgeanastasopoulos5865]

Actually, Josh Peters, stereophonic sound was introduced in 1958; and it was invented, developed since 1952! Thumbs up on your essay, well done! Anyhow, if not by the end of the 1950s to early sixties, I figure that 99.5% of vinyl records were recorded in stereo at the end of the 1970s. I should know because I grew up listening to records, 8 Track tape, and cassettes from very early teens, to young man from the 1970s, to the end of the 1980s. That period for me is where most of my favourite music is from, from the 1960s, 1970s rock, R&B, and the nineteen eighties; and iconic era. I also listen to CDs, sometimes cassettes, even though I prefer vinyl.

[@joshpeters7392]

George, you’re correct about the introduction of stereo tech, but it wasn’t widespread, according to what I have read, until the late 60’s. 67 was really the seminal year that stereo really came into being. (If my sources are incorrect, I apologize for giving out any false info.) My bigger arguments aren’t about the exact introduction of stereo either. The bigger point is that if you’re wanting to truly respect the artistic intent, as the two in this video say is sacrosanct, how dare someone be for listening to a stereo instead of a mono system for albums that were produced in mono! That isn’t what the artist mixed/ intended/ wanted! Right? How DARE YOU, sir! 😛 I just think that everyone should encourage others to experience as much music, and to learn stories and history behind it, as possible. Not discourage, or suggest that persons experience is limited because of the medium used invalidates the experience.

[@georgeanastasopoulos5865]

@@joshpeters7392 Very well said. Thanks for responding. Thank you for the extra information. I understand your point more clearly now about the original recording if it was made in mono, certainly. This is the second occasion by Andrew Singer whereby he has expressed, and complained about the music CD, and CD Players! Most people do not comprehend the technology, even if it's to a surface level, of analogue, and digital, vinyl, reel to reel, cassette, or CD; and I don't pretend to have a deep, or wide knowledge of these audio technologies, either. However, to reiterate, Mr. Singer maintains his distance, and ignorance of digital recording, and the CD; but what about the SACD, and SACD Players? Then there is MQA. Myself, although I am a music fan I don't have nor want to spend a heap of money to own such costly machines; but I did make a purchase of a moderately priced DAC from Amazon.ca, so I'll hear how that machine mode goes. Besides, I am happy enough to listen to CDs on my Sony CD Player (of late 1998), and enjoy the music, and find out about other music, mostly rock, pop, country, or R&B, for example. Even up to now I listen to radio on my receiver 40% of the time, so how would I become aware of any good music that I am going to buy on a physical format, such as CD? I'm also making this remark because some high end hi fi people don't think much of radio, even if it is FM. In the recent past my purchase was records, and cassettes tapes, up to the early 1990s. Afterward, the very big recording companies stopped producing vinyl. So then deep into the nineteen nineties I sometimes bought cassettes, and listened to FM radio. Recently, I have begun listening to music over the Internet on Spotify, and AccuRadio, mostly Spotify from my Acer V3 laptop computer (of 2013), operating on Windows 8.1. I listen to one of my favourite times, or eras of music the 1980s, and for sampling any other music, artists, or other tunes that are not so popular. Therefore, today, we have more than a couple of different music media to choose from, and each music medium has its benefits, as well.

[@adotopp1865]

Thanks for finally putting an end to this debate, Josh! I do think you got to the essence of the argument with, " It's because it forces us to listen to what is being played" nice.

[@johnholmes912]

actually stereo arrived in the 50s

[@ianmedium]

“Younger people are into the old format, older people are into the new” nothing new, back in the eighties older people, especially those into classical ran to CD as it was simple, easy to listen to and you could get whole albums in some instances on one CD and not have to get up and change sides, likewise they did not have to clean the things like they did with vinyl and they could sit in their chair with the remote and just relax and enjoy music rather than bugger about doing all the things you need to do in making vinyl sound great. True, no sense of care in how to make it play but they enjoyed the music just as much which is why vinyl died the death it did. Most average people were prepared to take a cut in sound quality for convenience but don’t make the mistake they enjoyed the music any less, in fact because it was easier they ended up listening to it more. Don’t get me wrong, I love vinyl but I can engage and enjoy in my digital music just as much and don’t ever feel I’m missing out listening to digital over vinyl

[@johnholmes912]

i use cd for opera because of the convenience, but for rock and pop vinyl is my preference

[@SteveDaviesCPT]

It is ironic to hear the old bloke who is pontificating on how crap CDs are saying that millenials are arrogant. Signed 58 year old.

[@mikrophonie5633]

Wow, what a shock! A guy who makes a living selling as many high-end, overpriced turntables as possible is running down CD players and CDs. Too bad those $20k-80K or higher turntables can't remove all the annoying pops and crackles you get with vinyl playback.

[@jamesjoyce2528]

Vinyl sucks. Period. Breaks down even with normal use. Lossless digital files and CDs are vastly superior. I'll take microchips and lasers over some stupid needle (oh, sorry, cartridge) every time.

[@johnholmes912]

i have 50 year old records that have no pops and crackles

[@swinde]

@@johnholmes912 So you haven't played them?

[@weizenobstmusli8232]

Have you all listened to a good turntable and vinyl?

[@moniack]

The libraries around me have started vinyl collections. I decided last weekend to get a used Fluance table and now i see what it's all about and borrow some records.

[@johnolson4977]

You are right Steve , a well recorded cd is perfect sound for ever.....thank you

[@inaz1963]

Reminds me of a scene from the old tv series '3rd Rock from the Sun". The Solomons are looking at a bunch of cd's and Dick scoffs "when will these silly humans come to recognize the superior sound quality of vinyl".

[@MrCatalysis101]

So here we have a dealer telling us how awful CD is/was, which I would largely challenge, even as an avid vinyl lover. I assume Mr Singer never sold CD players, as he clearly wouldn’t want his clients to be so short changed sonically, to his way of thinking. Yeah right...

[@vncstudio]

I think he might have little interest in selling CD players now given the low demand...I had to import a specific CD transport from Japan recently since the local dealer discontinued selling it. Ultimately, it's the quality of the recording that makes the difference. I listen to a lot of music on the ECM label. All beautifully recorded on digital.

[@Pocket_Stuff]

Mr Singer is probably worried that a cd player, or even a decent dac and android phone, can give you more accurate sound than a $10k tt setup.

[@philipadams3325]

My first music medium purchases were on cassette. I aspired to having a turntable early on, but managed to get a tape player that I primarily used to tape off of the radio. It was later when I managed to get an all in one Panasonic (8-track - radio - turntable) at a yard sale - hence why it had 8 track instead of a cassette. My first CD player was actually in a car. Today, I have a large Vinyl collection (I actually still have that old Panasonic and it still sees some use as a little system in my home bar), and a large CD collection. I kind of differentiate active listening and background listening. When I am active listening it is vinyl. If I am hanging around the house working on projects I fill up the old 5 disc changer. I have satellite radio in the car so rarely take any cd's in the car unless I am going on a trip and want specific driving music. Now, streaming media. I find it extremely valuable for listening to an album that I have found on vinyl I am not sure about, and have a bluetooth boombox for listening outside. There is something about a tactile medium for music that is different. Even my infinitely worse sounding than digital - 8-tracks and cassettes have a special place in my collection and get some play once in awhile. Especially those old compilation tapes from the old days of going through your albums looking for the perfect songs and making a physical playlist instead of just searching Amazon Music or Itunes.

[@stephenmead5488]

Been a musician and audio enthusiast since the late 1960’s. I have hundreds of vinyl records, VPI turntable, Ortophon cartridge, etc. The format is a pain in the ass, noisy, rife with timing and phase aberrations, low frequency rumble, and easily damaged. Lowering the stylus to the lead in grooves is a crap shoot often accompanied by the stylus skating across the first few grooves detracting from the intro of the first song on a side. The inner tracks are distorted to the point of being unlistenable in some cases. The stresses imparted on the vinyl substrate leave audible artifacts that bleed in from adjacent tracks which can be audible in quiet passages. The so called audiophile pressings do little if anything to alleviate any of the afore mentioned problems. In almost all cases, I will listen to CD over a vinyl counterpart. In those cases where a vinyl record sounds better than its CD counterpart, the effect is euphonic at best, or the result of poor mastering choices for the CD version which have nothing to do with format. You want truth from your recorded media, don’t look for it in vinyl.

[@johnholmes912]

cd has a very large amount of time smearing

[@stephenmead5488]

@@johnholmes912 Please comment on the time smear assertion.

[@thisisnev]

Sorry, Steve, but Mr Singer lost me when he called CD "this bad format". And yes, I'm old enough to remember vinyl before CD came along...

[@jjquinn2004]

Sorry Steve, but no need to run down CDs. I've collected both and while I prefer CDs for various reasons, I respect someone's decision to prefer a different format.

[@stonefree1911]

That's one of the best quotes I've ever heard.

[@stephengriffin4120]

I am 56 and have loved music since I was 3. I can remember playing rose in Spanish Harlem on my parents mono record player. I have solid state gear. Valve gear. All types of headphones. Cassettes, vinyl, mini discs. 128kbps MP3 high res etc..... Vinyl is fun and can sound great if you take a lot of care of your gear and records etc but talking about actual sound quality digital in all its forms wins over vinyl by a country mile and yes I absolutely consider myself to be an audiophile.

[@20CycleMonger]

He's not a snob? I run a Heybrook 80s turntable , CD players with tube DACs , stream (FM: MTPR) AND I own a Victrola. It's the MUSIC not the medium!

[@itsme-qk2vb]

On another note today is National record day. Buy a record. 😆

[@StephaneVorstellung]

Record STORE day. Go out and get a record from an independent retailer.

[@mosespray4510]

I'm a recent-convert audiophile with a limited budget, and I purchased a 2006 JVC DVD player to use as a CD player. It was very affordable, has a really nice build and finish, and it sounds great. So far, I've spent twice as much (or more) on my turntable, cartridge, and pre-amp, and it just doesn't sound nearly as good. I love the whole experience of listening to records, but as soon as I put on a CD the sound is so much better that it kind of makes me sad (about my turntable). I'm planning to upgrade my cartridge and stylus, but I find myself wondering just how much I will have to spend to make records sound comparable to the CDs. I'm 57 and played records in my youth, so I guess I'm more nostalgic than retro. Please comment if you have any wisdom to share.

[@Drumolator]

I started with vinyl records, cassettes, 8-tracks, radio and then finally CD's. CD's sound as good as my humble systems will reproduce. Playing records is too much trouble.

[@jbnavarrete]

I love both forms of listening music. If the recording is pre 90’s records is the way to go. Post 90’s I will listen to it on CDs

[@davepastern]

there's some truth in what you say - although I'd say it's from the 2000 onward that recording quality DROPPED badly. The modern popular CD is so badly compressed in its dynamic range it isn't funny...I still hunt down original CD pressings on EBay rather than by the new remastered crap new from the local store...

[@DonHamlin]

I spent last Friday and Saturday at Axpona and the few tables that were selling cd’s were very busy and it was hard to get an opening to flip through them.

[@DougMcDave]

I was very happy to go from vinyl to CD, because growing up as a kid, we lived so close to railroad tracks. Whenever a train rolled by, the tonearm jumped violently on the record! That's one reason why I rushed into CD. Vinyl LPs are very hard to care for. If you do not properly baby a record, dirt and scratches will ruin it. But as of Christmas I'm back into records. There are nuances in the sound digital cannot capture.

[@tweakerman]

Hello Steve, the good thing about buy cd in 2019, is they are extremely cheap, buy your self a great Dac & your cd collection can sound fantastic, as you well know, I'm just building up my Jazz collection on cd, as the cd cost anything between £6-£12 but the LP cost £20-£35, I love LP's but there expensive, its a no brainer, a great video.

[@Splenda257]

I am sorry, but analog sucks. I grew up with records, and I was so happy when CDs came out and digital recording came it. Digital is technically superior. Records are not romantic. There is nothing romantic about the snap, crackle, and pop of surface noise of a record or the wow and flutter, or the limited dynamic range, or the skipping, etc. But these guys are not talking about technicalities. They are talking about what's romantic to them, comparing records with driving stick or whatever. Of course, most of the records people are buying now, probably even the ones that were originally recorded analog, are being pressed from digital masters. The only thing happening is that the digital to analog conversation is taking place when the record is pressed instead of in your HiFi. And the recording has to be compressed when it's pressed onto a record because records have limited dynamic range. Recordings on records always have to be loud enough to cover up the surface noice, if nothing else.

[@adotopp1865]

What's snap crackle and pop? It's a thing of the past now

[@johnholmes912]

it is not technically superior, a limited frequency response and time smearing present in digital playback makes it inferior

[@ianmedium]

I woke this morning having thought about this more. I see people totally absorb in the music they are listening to on their iPhone and apple buds. Some of the most engrossing music absorbing times I’ve had have been when listening to my ripped CD’s on my AK120/Glove Audio/Bose in ear NC headphones, totally lost in the music. Listening to Mr Singer makes me think he is listening to his equipment more than he is listening to his music. He is getting caught up on the HiFi trickery and getting his kicks from that which is fine. But is that any better than the guy or girl getting their kicks when listening to MP3’s?

[@jerryking7502]

I think the main problem with the CD era is the advent of the LOUDNESS wars. I believe this is the number one over riding factor that put the kabash on CDs. OR at least, prevents people going back to CDs after getting tired of streaming. My opinion of course, but the vast majority of CDs before the mid 2000s were excellent.

[@scottyo64]

I listen to CDs and Vinyl. I own more CDs. I stream a little but getting into it is another bundle of money I don't have. Vinyl is fun, sounds good but I still prefer CDs.

[@MCMTL]

What model of turntable is that behind Singer?

[@andolink]

It seems the more time, trouble, expense, aggravation and higher noise floor involved in listening to a bit of music, the better it is for all concerned?? Very strange.

[@Hare_deLune]

If you are anywhere near New York, you can go to Sound By Singer and find out for yourself. If you can't be bothered to find out for yourself, then kindly stop punting!

[@adotopp1865]

Stick with CD then, Andy!

[@johnholmes912]

i bet the ambient noise floor of your listening room is higher than that on an analogue recording

[@pablobruise1388]

I had an AR-XA turntable. It had an extremely heavy platter & a transfer rubber pulley to change speeds. It was also very inexpensive at the time. I think $79.95 would be a good guess. Not only did Consumer Reports rated it a Best Buy, but many audiophiles jumped on the bandwagon. It's a great single play, very accurate turntable. I used it to make reel-to-reel tapes.

[@helgar791]

I've been an audiophile since 1983, although I actually bought my first audiophile set up in 1973. Because of my many friends in the audio business, friends in the manufacturing, retail and review business, I've been fortunate enough to have listened to some of the best both analog and digital have to offer. I make monthly visits to reviewer friends and on their well set up and familiar systems I continue to listen to some of the best digital and analog extant. I have an extensive collection of records (7000 and counting) and digital downloads (about 500), all Hi-Rez. I also attend concerts, both jazz and classical, approximately twice a month. Although I enjoy digital as background listening, only occasionally do I enjoy it for concerted listening. Analog just recreates the event with more realism, especially when it comes to natural textures and colors of the instruments, natural dynamics, a realistic grasp of the air in the venue and a more organic relationship between the musicians. Again, I don't hate digital. For me, analog just sounds more like music and less like a confection or better, an amalgam of what music should be.

[@draganantonijevic2441]

Music first, everything else secondly.

[@LouisWinthorpe622]

Fuck, man. And you look deadly serious about it, as well. Whatever you say. You know what I mean? 😉

[@vmvlev]

i want a LP12 since2000-2001 the only problem is the linn seller in south germany is a elite pricK ... first time i was there with 1.5k euro cash to buy a lp12 .. he just made fun of my sony stereo and send me away .. next time i wanted a Moving Coil for my Dual turn table .. so he made fun of my dual 721 ( worlds best turntable in 76 or 78 ) so he made fun of the direct drive .. end of the story all my amps/stereo are made by Pro-ject , old dual 721 and a ortofon 2m black ... ( had to tell this storry the thumbnail triggert me )

[@Hare_deLune]

Sorry to hear that. It can be tough when there are so few dealers around anymore. There is a website called audioadvisor.com I don't know if they sell what you want, but I do know you can talk to the staff on the phone for advice. It's the next best thing to a brick and mortar store.

[@adotopp1865]

That is a BAD salesman.

[@georgeanastasopoulos5865]

I understand, with most people in high end hi fi audio there is snobbery, something you should have answered Steve on one of his topics, but he does not actually think exists. What these people don't know is electricity they forgot in high school, science up to senior year, logic, the importance of numbers, facts, and figures, music practice - in my case junior high - and these elitist snobs rarely heard live music. Enough said.

[@MVC670]

@@adotopp1865 That salesman is a TOTAL IDIOT. Any salesman with a grain of sense would have sold the turntable, then told the customer that he wasn't getting but a fraction of its capability out of his Sony system. However, should the customer scrape up some more cash, he'd be happy to sell him the components that would make the LP 12 live up to its potential.

[@adotopp1865]

@@georgeanastasopoulos5865 So what is your point regarding the LP12 and the Linn seller please?

[@fzesgru]

Accuracy is a good starting point, it needs euphonic sweetening, or "musicality". Hence the popularity of things like turntables and tube amplification devices. Try it, you may like it.

[@Pocket_Stuff]

Tts and tubes are literally the opposite of accuracy.

[@athathsonty2925]

The Involvement and intangible Intimacy referred to is akin to Shooting with SLRs/ DSLRs in Manual Mode as opposed to Shooting with Point and Shoot Crap with Autofocus.

[@Pocket_Stuff]

More like shooting digital vs shooting film

[@andrewmeates7633]

For a much more balanced perspective go to John Darko on his channel " The CD is not dead yet".

[@markthorens8724]

That's a very measured piece. One of his best.

[@ryacus]

It triggered tons of people on the audio snob forums hilarious.

[@craigshewchuk9018]

24 year old, try to watch all your videos grew up on CD n mp3 but I need vinyl I do not listen to anything in such depth as vinyl, it has been my best interface I have found for what i need

[@cmkilcullen8176]

I am a return to vinyl person - for lp's I have already and one who has replaced some lps. I have to say its been a mixed bag for me getting new lps. There are some great reissues. Some have great remastering but the quality of the pressing of some have been horrible. The vinyl may be of a great weight and all, but the vinyl is also quite noisy and awful. You never know what's coming. It helps at times, to read the reviews when you can. I know very little about streaming. I never had an interest in it per se. CDs, lps, FM, satellite and sometimes Pandora (FM and Pandora the least) are what I generally do. A good lp on a mindfully present day, conscious, is my favorite. Thanks. I enjoyed listening in on this interesting interview. There should be a group of folks in NYC that meets to talk about things like this. A record club..something like that. One may exist that I don't know about....but that would be fun. PS...not so much an audiophile club per se, but that might be okay. I would not like the status d*** waving stuff. Just a music or record club....just saying. Peace.

[@Hare_deLune]

If I lived in NY I wouldn't mind getting together for a chat, but from what I've seen on here, talking to other audiophiles might be risky. Just sayin'...

[@cmkilcullen8176]

@@Hare_deLune Cool....I hear ya!

[@curtispennington889]

Exactly right. Most vinyl sounds like noisy crap vs most CDs or streaming. Audiofools go on and on about analogue. They must have some sort of internal filter that is able to get past all of the noise. Only explanation that makes sense. Normal people hear the flaws right away.

[@dougg1075]

Slips,shoots off! I LIKE IT!

[@Charlie-zj3hw]

I love Tidal..

[@squirrelarch]

Really interesting. Bit of a 'woah' moment as stick shift gears were described as 'intimate', lol. I think I get what you both meant. As somebody who was born analogue, accepted digital & streaming it is odd to see the resurgence of vinyl even though I never junked my turntable. I hope the younger generation appreciate the craftsmanship & ritual of vinyl.

[@stephenlasko9217]

The real ritual is not lifting the tone arm, etc., but sitting and patiently listening to the entire album, which could be from any of several formats.

[@henriksrensen5958]

Vinyl is NOT better. Many vinyl buyers claim that digital recordings on vinyl sound better than cd, what a JOKE

[@Pocket_Stuff]

Exactly. Vinyl is coloring. The more you pay the less color. But it will never be as accurate as digital simply by design.

[@spotshooter1]

Enjoying these videos Steve. Andrew's thoughts and perspectives are very interesting. Hope to see more!

[@Geerladenlad]

Hey Steve have you ever got a chance to hear the Ortofon A 95 cartridge? If so is it really worth that price? Is there something that cost under $1,500 that comes anywhere near it?

[@kenmorley2339]

I like both records and CDs . Why is it that some people claim vinyl is superior but ask others if the reissued lp they have just heard is analogue or not?

[@johnholmes912]

when people tell me cd is better i play them some led zepplin on cd, then i play them the vinyl.....all of them are surprised how much better the vinyl sounds

[@brianmoss5483]

Back in the day that’s all we had

[@FirstNameLastName-tb3rm]

Old people are funny. I grew up on CD’s. Didn’t care for them after MP3 players came out. I’ve gotten into the whole vinyl revival. Turntable, records, old klipsch speakers and all that. But I still will never part with my Apple Music subscription. There is a whole world of music out there. And listening to Apple Music at work helps me find it. When I find something I really like, “this would sound good on vinyl”, I go get it on LP. I love both formats. I need both. Cause record players are enjoyable. And Apple Music is functional. How am I going to listen to music on the go, and at work? I’m not going to bring my turntable or a Walkman and a suitcase of CD’s with me. Ha ha. Don’t hate, embrace. Digital is just fine.

[@scottparrish5992]

My experience is not at all what this guy describes. Maybe I am out of the mainstream.

[@StephaneVorstellung]

Digital is fine, but it always feels like a compromise to me, especially as a file. I like physical things. Packaging, tactility, blah blah blah, of course there's that. But the bigger thing for me is that without it being on record, the music fails to completely enter my orbit. Records...they're where my head is at, they've got designated space in my house it's what I've bought most consistently since 1984. The other formats I have, are like listening to the radio.

[@alexanderrswaim5142]

Much of it is about the experience rather than the sound quality. I play shellac 78s on a c.1914 Columbia Grafonola and Edison cylinders (2 and 4 minute) on an Edison Standard, and enjoy them every bit as much, and maybe more, than any other (vastly superior) format.

[@2574mcu]

I never really left analog. Digital to me is a more convenient way to play music. In the 80s when all of my friends got rid of their records, I kept mine. It was all because of the 80s Beatle cds released at that time, did not sound as good as my vinyl imports of the same albums. It was not just the Beatles it was others as well. All I hear from people is cds are quiet. Most of my lips are very quiet. I'm 55 now and appreciate both the digital and analog worlds.

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

mike u if u haven't, check out LAST record cleaner and even "more important" their record preservative. It's kind of amazing stuff IMHO, but expensive. Does go a long ways though. Absolute sonic improvement.

[@future62]

I have vinyl at home but I stream when I'm out. Better to have music at less than ideal sounds quality than none at all

[@georgeanastasopoulos5865]

Yes, I agree with you, future62, but the music from the Internet sounds 2 dimensional. Not like vinyl, CD, and cassette tape, type 2 preferably.

[@johnholmes912]

i i want music outside my home, i go to a concert

[@future62]

@@georgeanastasopoulos5865 I never claimed streaming music to be "3D"... But if we're being honest a lot of vinyl has trash sound quality. The pressings were cheap and most have decades of wear and tear

[@georgeanastasopoulos5865]

@@future62 Okay, well said. However, I don't aim on getting a more expensive DAC to connect to my desktop computer, for example. Then connect new, very expensive DAC to my hk receiver; because that is what the expert audiophiles could argue for. Audiophile Standard is mostly about brand name, and very expensive hi fi audio; something I became aware of from high end sellers, and a couple of magazines in the very late 1980s, and 1990s. Furthermore, some of these audiophile people - now on the Internet instead of sales, and magazines - are actually equipment-philes. I may not be very different because I like good, solid, high performance, quality equipment. However, in my case I'm a music fan first, audiophile second. I believe I'm a distant second when it comes to receivers, and integrated amplifier - JVC A-M1. I've got a Sony AV STR-DH520, but I only use for hi fi audio. Sony Receiver of 85W into 8 ohms works very well. Anyway, don't want to get long-winded, only wanted to explain further, @future62.

[@future62]

@@georgeanastasopoulos5865 there's a lot of great cheap audiophile stuff out there. A lot of people use Raspberry Pi based DACs for example. Pair that with a cheap amp with a good board and some speakers and you have a great system. I am also music first though which is why I'm ok to listen to music through Bluetooth on the go. It's not ideal but it's better than no music at all

[@leonarddaneman810]

I gave away all my albums in 1981, after a bad breakup and moving out of town. Finally got a turntable Last year (Pro-Ject Debut Carbon) and found good sources of 'thrift' store albums. So, it has been fun rediscovering many of my old albums . . . Last week, I found 1970's Pioneer PL-A35 in perfect condition. Strong motor! I can switch cartridges, which is a chore with the Pro-Ject, and the auto shutoff is a joy. I have a fantastic CD player, streaming, SiriusXM (canceled Pandora cause it sucked), and the albums sound better than Ultra HD streaming. A good analog master kicks ass . . . the 'remasters' and digital masters are not as good. An example is Bonnie Raitt. Her ADD CD sounds so much better than the DDD ones.

[@MichaelLivingston-me]

Perhaps my biggest criticism of most CD's are the high compression. I'm in the same age bracket as John & Steve. Records often sound better if they are not falling prey to the compression demons too. I think the inherent technological advantage of the CD vs. the LP, provides a lower noise floor with better dynamics. Even wow & flutter is something that's not part of the equation, although jitter is a potential problem. Moreover there's no pops, clicks, along with "groove noise", present in a CD. Having said that, I do enjoy listening to good vinyl.

[@Kwippy]

I was an enthusiastic adopter of CD's, and bought my first CD player not very long after CD's hit the market. Since then I have owned several players, including high end ones from Meridian and Rega. And I have NEVER loved any of them, not like I loved my Rega turntable and my Linn LP12. And now that CD's are obsolete as a digital storage medium I will never buy another CD.

[@m.9243]

Without taking anything away from vinyl, a well recorded CD is hard to beat when played through a descent transport and DAC. Yes given, vinyl has that 'touch' magic about it, something substantial you've spent your money on, but soundwise, I think it takes a lot of effort and expense to compete. As for the younger spending money on t/tables, it is true but it's more of a 'fad' or even a curiosity to own a deck. It will always be the subject of a discussion in a gathering.

[@chucklemberg4968]

Most of the people I have encountered (especially those "discovering" the sound of vinyl) have never experienced anything other than low bit-rate mp3's. With these mp3's as a reference point, is it any wonder that an LP sounds better to them?

[@m.9243]

@@chucklemberg4968 My thoughts exactly! Vinyl presents to them a totally different sound, away from the "tizzz" of ear plugs and smart phone sources. Many get converted!

[@Pocket_Stuff]

That magic touch is literally coloring and distortion. If you like the sound thats awesome but its not an advantage in anyway.

[@m.9243]

@@Pocket_Stuff Quote: "...but its not an advantage in anyway.." Very true. For you and I, perhaps seasoned audiophiles, _we know that_ For the average Joe out there, who's not concerned of coloration and distortion, it sounds fine and, if nothing else, more "natural". Most ppl that listen to music, as long as they enjoy what they hear, they don't give a toss about figures. In fact, I am convinced, many ppl do like a bit of distortion or coloration in their music! They don't identify it as such, they just like it!

[@rotaks1]

John Darkos latest episode will disagree with this episode. All good. We need these view points.

[@adotopp1865]

I don't think we NEED it. It's entertaining to watch but please make up your own mind. Thanks Rohit

[@mondoenterprises6710]

Interestingly, there is a ton of great music on small indie labels, blues and jazz in particular, that is only available as a cd or digital file. Vinyls were never made.

[@MCMTL]

ok but with all the affordable portable DACs, many of which are MQA renderers, you can now walk around and listen to very decent quality music for a relatively affordable investment.

[@davepastern]

that is very true - but digital still falls short when compared to a good quality turntable setup imho. True, that is not portable. So, are we looking at it holistically from a sound quality point of view, or a convenience point of view? PS I already know the answer to that - it's the *only* reason why CDs became popular in the first place. It is its One saving grace.

[@MCMTL]

@@davepastern I don't know. There are way too many variables. All I know is that I get a much cleaner, clearer and higher resolution from streaming and a CHORD Mojo than from regular vinyl even with an outboard phono preamp. I say regular vinyl because I haven't tried MoFi or other superior vinyl formats. My turntables are decent but all in the 200-500$ range. So for now, I have to only imagine what a 10K turntable with a proper phono preamp might sound like playing a MoFi vinyl. But at lower budgets, I definitely believe you get farther faster with digital.

[@davepastern]

@@MCMTL you are correct in that digital performs better at lower price points than analogue turntables. It's a bit unfair to compare a chord mojo (what, around USD $450 new at a guess) to a 200-500$ turntable.

[@Gnofg]

Interesting discussion on manual vs automatic. I drive a 1994 Audi S4. One of the great cars of all time. Fast, great handling and it never came in an automatic. People who drive manuals always pay attention to driving and where you sit in the rpm's. I have been reading about idler drives slam. I used to have a Dual 1218 and I am thinking of going b back to an idler for my son. I have an AR XB which is an excellent TT. My own is a Systemdek. Anyone here can describe the Idler slam?

[@cls63amgwagon34]

Hold on, streaming is “the worst crap in the world...” ??? Also, funnnnn, another old person saying millennials are arrogant, how about old people don’t understand technology and are crotchety, I’m sure you like that depiction of yourself

[@stevebrown6623]

The inflammatory language dissing CD has reached new heights! Vinyl is for those who like rice crispies in their music: snap, crackle, and pop! But you have to ‘admire’ a guy who talks like his opinion is a simple fact!

[@adotopp1865]

No snap, crackle, and pop nowadays !

[@johnholmes912]

cd is for people who can't be bothered to clean their records

[@nicolajc]

Vinyl is a healthier format. You get off the couch more.

[@rabit818]

I have a Rega and have a Audio Labs Dac + a CD player and quite please with it back then. I will plug it in sometime soon and see if it’s any good. This guy is a digital or cd snob

[@adotopp1865]

rabit818 Don't you mean analogue or records snob?

[@feloniusdrunk]

My understanding is that sound is "engineered" for recording and playback purposes. And you touched on it too briefly in your discussion. I heard a 24 bit 192K recording of some music I'm familiar with and I thought this is the future. But my much more sensible other half said nah it's the engineering, and I think she's right.

[@darrens7040]

awesome Steve.

[@blacksabbath2534]

CD sounds much better then vinyl any day and to get a record to sound as good as CD you would have to spend silly money and vinyl is really going backwards in technology not forwards and the same with streaming because it’s the same quality as cd so we haven’t really moved on from CDs have we . people have just got lazy and they do not want a music collection as it takes to much room up

[@Endzeit2014]

big advantage of CD is use in a car. at home I like to put the arm on the disk.

[@mankepoot9440]

I play vinyl as well as digital. Vinyl has it's charmes and qualitys, but i never hear people about the terrible job of replacing a stack of records back into the cupboard no matter if it is ordened alfabatically or otherwise.