Tweek Talks about Sumabato 55 and Reaper Invitational | Episode 180

[@MasterAbeer101]

Congrats on winning the Reaper Invitational in the funniest way possible 😂 Shoutouts to Ouch because the bracket wouldn't have not been how it was if it weren't for him turning into Death from Puss and Boots, the Wolf was CLEAN

[@coolshirtkid]

“he timed out sonix with mario” is the late-stage smash ultimate equivalent to “he dair’d a pikmin” 😂😂

[@npclucario7005]

Yall forgot to mention diegorou is a joycon user and goes male corrin, he's sick with it

[@babybirch18]

using joycons is incredibly based

[@Hazmatt]

Dude Tweek and I talked about this right after recording the podcast lol, crazy

[@yafilmme6160]

@@Hazmattyou can call the ageis player fire(f1re)

[@ripredj17]

Love to hear about this Tweek Cloud. I think Diddy main with Cloud secondary is the winning formula. Stick with it!

[@phineasandferbrocks1]

Doramigi has actually beat Hurt 3/4 of the last sets they played. So it's really only Miya who is the last true Japan demon for Doramigi.

[@armakeen3576]

No shade against the format they went for, but I gotta say: when you do an invitational with only 8 players, it's the PERFECT opportunity to do a round-robin format. That would have been dope to have round-robins at LACS, for example

[@pbz7572]

Hard agree

[@gqboygboy6930]

Tweek is the slim reaper after all and super shoutouts to ouch?! for his big wins at Reaper

[@coolshirtkid]

tweek finally playing cloud ?!? this game is saved bro

[@pbz7572]

Global Rank 1 incoming

[@zake64]

32:11 I'd like to see more of this kind of analysis on the show. I had no idea Wolf fair, nair, and up air were all frame 7, and I can already start thinking of counterplay based on that. I think Ult can sometimes gatekeep lower or mid level players via knowledge gaps.

[@MerryBlind]

Frame data website has been easily accessible since the game’s launch basically. It’s very well made with moves info and frame-by-frame hitbox images. Look it up. Imo it’s fun and useful to look up a move when encountering a weird interaction and understanding why that hitbox hit or didn’t hit or what you can easily punish against specific characters etc.

[@bilalyusuf2]

gatekeep makes it sound like a bad thing

[@Toastygobs]

It’s not that the invitational’s format was confusing, it’s just anticlimactic to have the winner only play twice against the same opponent. They need to figure out a better way to seed it. Being top seed almost guarantees your first opponent will get knocked out first, meaning 1st seed is always the most likely player to be at risk first.

[@hamnkapten7977]

Seeding wasn’t really an issue tho, Ouch was seeded last(i believe?) and that theoretically should have led to Tweek playing a lot of sets as the first seed. But Ouch showed up in a way that no seeding could’ve predicted. Gluto playing a secondary also threw a wrench in the seeding but again, they couldn’t have predicted that. So the format itself is flawed in games that have high variation like Smash and definitely needs more layers or a new approach

[@professorporkchop7628]

@@hamnkapten7977 Ouch was seeded 2nd to last(cosmos was seeded last, which is why light was instantly at risk), but his run wasn't really the problem--if he had lost to syrup, for example, than tweek would have played syrup and zomba would be in grands after playing one match. The format nearly guarantees that one player gets a free ride to grands after one match and makes it more likely for that player to be a more middling seed rather than the top seed.

[@sambonchie8857]

Format was not confusing. It was different but very understandable after they explained it.

[@kestrelynn]

and in double elimination tournaments if last seed went on a crazy run losing only to 1st seed twice, it would be anti climactic. wasnt the formats fault they got unlucky for showcasing it

[@pbz7572]

1:02:22 funny Tweek mentioned Villager when discussing how Inkling got power crept as they’re both the first newcomers of their respective smash games

[@Stormblessed387]

I think the Reaper invitational was cool and would be nice as side bracket but if wins at events remotely matters for rankings then it shouldn’t count

[@garretmoore1297]

The invitational was super fun to watch. The concept was a blast for me personally. I can understand that for competitors how it's not great competitively.... But ohhh well

[@JonnyJayKhan]

Snow is definitely one of my favourite players to watch right now, he is so optimised and deadly, the things he will do with cape and fludd are so big brain

[@RedMooseJesus]

Poor Haz just wants to talk about Sumabato and keeps getting interrupted 😂

[@cringewyrm]

When Ouch is "on" its serious art

[@NiihiLo]

Hearing Haz say "he should go to the Steve a lilttle more" really hurts.

[@masterger94]

Ouch’s parries were otherworldly.

[@TonyStorm21]

Considering the fact that Japan is currently the strongest region for Ultimate and how they will probably start super strong with Smash 6, would that cause a change of heart with Nintendo? considering how much presence they have now and how many internationally known japanese players they have now, maybe big N will come back, maybe.

[@merchdaddy5873]

Seeding was the problem for the reaper invitational. Fix it by allowing the top 4 seeds to choose their first opponent of the bottom 4 seeds in act 1. For example seed 1 can choose 5-8 and they pick 5, then seed 2 can pick 6-8 and they pick 7, seed 3 has 6 and 8 left, then seed 4 gets the last remaining seed.

[@elchupacabra1406]

Wolf glaze episode? Lets fucking gooo

[@MikeyDLuffy]

Max and Joe tournaments are too good. Its kind of seen as a throwaway these days, but I absolutely loved watching the 1 stock brawl tournament. The idea of having shorter "rounds" like Street Fighter is cool idea in Smash rather than having just 1 long 7 minute game. I love that they are willing to test things like this

[@loooooooooooooooooob]

cloud is such an awesome secondary for diddy... steve, pacman, duck hunt, ics all covered now

[@JonnyJayKhan]

Covers everything except Samus and Sonic I think but Diddy can deal with Sonic

[@loooooooooooooooooob]

@@JonnyJayKhan yeah diddy sonic really isnt that bad, and as a cloud main i find the samus mu fine for him as well

[@pbz7572]

And Cloud does better against Snake than Corrin too

[@joshklapperich9416]

a Diddy Kong main with a corrin would be so awesome to watch. I'm very excited to see tweeks cloud in tournament though

[@randomguy8107]

Was Gluto the #1 player in EU in smash 4 ? I always heard it being mr.R but maybe he lived in the US ig

[@SeriousStriker]

I think Gluto was #1 in EU at the very tail end of Smash 4, but for most of Smash 4's lifespan it was Mr. R.

[@nextos]

Was a fun tournament to watch

[@SadFace229]

The Reaper format certainly did its job in demonstrating the concept "abstractly" speaking works. If person A beats B, C, and D, then person E beats A, then by transitive property; E > A > B |C|D. Thing is Smash characters don't have equal matchups. So it just needs to be tweaked a bit to adapt to Smash Bros. For instance, there needs to be a segment to determine the seedinig for Act 1. They went with the Lumirank seeding and with Light taking out Cosmos and Cosmos falling to the reaper, Light didn't benefit from the typical top seed privilege it afforded, he was constantly at the edge of fighting the Reaper. The other issue of only playing 2 sets and winning, then I'd say a Reaper accumulating enough wins should reset players' statuses from safe to At Risk. I think a cooler idea (spitballing here) is if the reaper winning against a player can send him into purgatory from which the reaper can summon to play a reaper match in his stead, If the summoned player loses, he's back out of the bracket and the reaper has to play, if the player wins, he's back in the bracket. In any case, I had a lot of fun with the invitational (congrats to the Slim Reaper winning it), and my fingers are crossed for the Tweek Talks team to be experimental with The Throne.

[@luigisuper4143]

Has Snow leveled up? 2nd into 3rd.

[@RJEnriquez]

They should use the reaper format only for top 8. The rest of the bracket just to seed the reaper finals.

[@sigbausage3116]

I hope you're not refering to actual tourneys. The reaper format is yatzy; a lot of randomness to it.

[@JonnyJayKhan]

I need to see this weird Tweek down tilt Cloud… ngl down tilt cloud does not sound like it will last till march, but this is interesting for the meta given Kola breaks out the cloud as a counter pick character and there’s a new Cloud in Japan that beat Miya and another JP top player is starting to pick cloud as a secondary and even Maister has too

[@switch02255]

Diegorou using joycon and beat many top players is wild lol

[@jairchavez3720]

Ummmm…. Haz doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Mr.R was the best EU player in smash 4. Not Glut

[@Hazmatt]

Oh duh LOL How could I forgot about my GOAT, he was in the USA actively competing so much I forgot

[@joeycarmello]

No matter what someone in the room plays twice, right? One of the act I winners will only play once more no matter what, it's just not known which player that is until later.

[@Animatix19]

1:00:39 Absolutely not true. Corrin has Up Air, Back Air, Pin as well as F-smash and Neutral Special in niche situations. Cloud literally has, Up Air, Back Air, Foward Air, Down Air, Up Smash, and 3 commonly used Limit specials with Finishing touch being as Niche as Corrin's F-smash. That's barely 5 kill options vs 9 kill options

[@xkp13x]

I would love to see a tourney that has and is patch1 only.

[@Lvtron]

Cloud???

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

19:55 I would say it's more because Shadic got lucky character matchups for Corrin. Yoshidora and Raru are good wins, but Yoshi and Luigi aren't good wins for Corrin, if you know what I mean.

[@Spyder-Marth]

It's literally only slight winning those MUs are not that bad for Yoshi especially lol. Raru is historically bad against good Corrin players though. He almost never wins no matter how much higher he is on a ranking. Also I wouldn't call it "lucky" tbh. Corrin wins a ton of MUs. She barely has any losing ones. It's like saying Aegis mains are "lucky" for running into Sonic or Samus or something.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@Spyder-Marth What evidence is there that this is a Raru problem and not a Luigi problem? What would Luigi have that makes this only a slightly winning matchup for Corrin? From my point of view she seems like she has everything you'd want against Luigi. I always hear Yoshi mains say that swordies are difficult for Yoshi. I also often hear that Yoshidora is extremely good against swordies and overcomes matchups he shouldn't be able to overcome in that archetype. Yet even he couldn't beat Shadic on that day.

[@kingkillmger9597]

​ @legrandliseurtri7495 corrin is slow, and her moves have a fair amount of start up so she's susceptible to parries. You usually want to do retreating aerials against Luigi but Corrin doesn't do that as much. Fireball and z-air are annoying too. Overall neutral isn't so straightforward, you are favoured but you still have to interact. corrin can maybe get a kill if she plays advantage perfectly but luigi will JUST kill her. It's +1

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@ Luigi can't get anything out of parries against Corrin unless the spacing of the Corrin player is completely off.

[@kingkillmger9597]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 On the contrary, you would have to perfectly space every time if you want to deny luigi of any approach. corrin is not cloud my guy. She still has to interact with luigi. and the margin for error is higher when you are again, a slow character with a fair amount of start up

[@Shadyrobott]

Based Pink for going to church!

[@Spyder-Marth]

Corrin > Cloud 1:01:01 But seriously you should play Cloud if you enjoy him more.

[@kingkillmger9597]

cloud is an entire tier above corrin

[@mercurysnake274]

Lmao cloud is just fast Corrin. Corrin is better in specific matchups like Sonic though

[@Spyder-Marth]

​​@@kingkillmger9597 If you still think that after 4 different Corrin players made top 8s at Supermajors and after Sparg0 himself made a MU chart that looks worse than Corrin's... but also Sparg0 said Cloud isn't solo viable in this meta due to Sonic. Still a very strong character but like Pink and Tweek were saying in this same video, Corrin is a lot more rewarding on hit and speed isn't everything. Marth and Lucina are faster than Corrin and also have swords yet suck in comparison. Roy is a lot faster yet doesn't see as much success in making major top 8s (he obviously still can but it's hard when Kazuya and Steve are so abundant). The truth is Corrin is just way better in the current meta. She deals with Steve, G&W, ROB, Sonic, and more. Only issue is Snake exists.

[@kingkillmger9597]

Holy yap lol. It's not just speed, though that matters a lot. Corrin doesn't have free pressure like cloud. She doesn't have free advantage state like Cloud. She doesn't shut down mus like Cloud. Burst range isn't even remotely comparable, her frame data is objectively worse, overall mobility is worse. It's not close Corrin can have 10 reps who've top 8'd for all I care, nothing she has done comes close to what cloud has done or shown gameplay wise and you know it. You can't say "way better in the current meta", then names two even MUs for her that Cloud wins and two other mus she doesn't even do great into. lmao

[@Kei73737]

​@@kingkillmger9597well by pure results maybe Corrin is better...I was going to say that this can be sort of like a Pikachu and Shulk situation. Like those characters were theoretically better but not objectively. But Spargo is rank one with cloud too. And it may just be the cloud players are not as good yet. Like Fox players vs Light*. * but Idk how broken people think fox is though, so it may be a moot point

[@SkinnyItUp]

Bro said i'm actually SOOOOOO good against wolf, might be the best against him fr

[@brexarevalo]

🐐

[@mikey.liston]

Yeah I genuinely thought Smashers App was bugged because ain’t no way Tweek won by beating the same opponent twice and didn’t play any other sets lol

[@apolmedrano3914]

I know it’s called tweek talks but I have noticed recently he’s been interrupting people while they are talking. We lose a lot of insight when he does it, knocks people off their train of thought

[@jasiahcrider6418]

3 mins ago ??? I feel honored

[@lokks2130]

did the reaper invitational count for the rankings? please tell me it did not

[@armania_9064]

It was ranked a B tier so it counts but they might change their mind on counting it 😂. The only reason I’d want it to count is for the sake of Ouch since he played very well and had a great run. Plus it probably won’t count for that many points outside of any wins you got so Ouch would get the most benefit from the event anyways.

[@lokks2130]

@@armania_9064 Oh nahhhhhhh. What's the point of calling the bracket "experimental" if it still counts?

[@Jumogas]

Yeah it did. It was a B tier.

[@lightspeedbeast]

@@lokks2130its should probably count more for the head to head matches rather than raw placements. Like Tweek won but he should be mostly rewarded for his 2 Ouch wins, whereas Ouch gets rewarded for his Light, Gluto, Zomba, Syrup, and Mr. E wins.

[@lokks2130]

@@lightspeedbeast Head to head is heavily favoured on the LumiRank lol. I say just don't count the tournament at all, because it was an experimental bracket.

[@etriantrujek286]

Reaper invitational shouldn't count for rankings

[@Hisotami]

Hallo

[@danieldancer4065]

mickey win lol but a dub is a dub i guess

[@th3kiki108]

First