Tweekery #6 Record Clamps and weights (Do they work on a Rega?)

[@tonyjedioftheforest1364]

As always a very interesting video. Also I applaud your customer service allowing your customers to borrow items to try first.

[@mattharwood4413]

Phil - Glad the tweak video is back! I have wondered about the clamp and my Rega. Rega says no and one of my retail sales people says no (even when he could sell me one). So I have been without and yet wondering. Thanks for the thoughtful analysis and your experience. My Rega is Queen over my system even without a clamp (and she rules with an aluminum scepter, the RB3000 tone arm!) My digital threatens her leadership after upgrades in cables, internet, network switch, etc..but I suspect she will always reign!

[@mykabayiri]

I used an old planar 3 as a testbed. Over a period of time, I tried 4 different mats, 3 different platters, different subplatters, and changed the motor and external PSU. Whenever possible, I would go back to the old part after a few weeks. Most times, I thought I heard an improvement, but when I took the deck back to the pre upgrade step, the change was less noticeable. I am sure I suffered from expectation bias. Double blind testing is a honest way of assessing any change like this.

[@patrickroberts8702]

I didn’t buy the weight but I found the Jennifer album in my local vinyl shop. A great album, she has a wonderful voice and delivers the Cohen music in an original style. Great reviews, I have watched every Rega video and I now have an Elicit 5 and Planar 6 with MC. Thanks for your advice

[@russputin6294]

Some points as food for thought. 1. Linn always advised against record weights as, according to Ivor, there was a possibility the bearing would drill through it's own casing. I know the arguments; don't shoot the messenger but he did design and manufacturer the thing so this should be the definitive policy?...... 2. With a Rega, for instance, surely adding extra mass alters the fundamental resonance of the whole system, including the suspension feet? 3. The whole Rega design philosophy revolves (pardon the pun!!) around reducing mass so surely adding more on an ad-hoc / random basis is contrary to the manufacturers / designers intentions?

[@jamescarter9973]

I've got a clamp/weight (832g) I bought from "some guy" on ebay about 20 years ago - I think he was just into machining blocks of stainless steel into "stuff" - and I've used this on a NA interspace ever since. Really brings out the bass and tightens the rhythm. I have the Jennifer Warnes album on vinyl and CD and much as I like it, it does sound dated. Not in a bad way, just that it dates from a specific period in time.

[@thebestoffools]

I bought a 575g stainless steel Soundeck damping puck for my Technics SL-1200MK7 and it did make a big difference in my sound. I get a much more defined and punchy bass without losing on the mids. I was a little skeptical before buying it but I was really happy to notice the differences I got from it. It's a pretty big improvement for such a small investment. Soundeck also makes a lighter 250g aluminium puck which is probably more appropriate for a Rega TT.

[@brabuspower100]

Great video, just told a member on the Pro-Ject forum who had some questions about clamps about this video. Thanks..

[@whamoiw]

Yes Phil it is all about the sound keep up the good work ignore the "must haves"

[@apollomemories7399]

I own a Rega P10 and use a Michell clamp for slightly warped records and a Nobsound 280 gramm weight and both cost around £35 each. Both do the job well.

[@paulpavlou9294]

Hi Phil, I’ve never come across a record clamp/weight review before so congratulations on that. I have been using a Nagaoka record clamp on my Denon DP55K for 42 years now and never thought about until recently. I’ve in recent years built a Goldring Lenco GL75 with double platter and have been using a Mitchell clamp similar to the Nagaoka on it. I have on order a 40 gram weighted clam to try. Maybe that will end up on my daughters Ariston Q Deck if I don’t hear any audible difference. I’ve enjoyed your videos that I’ve seen. Keep up the good work and hi from Sydney Australia.

[@utube4andydent]

First time listen to Jennifer Warnes. Funny how some songs you just know but not the details. First we take Manhattan. Is just one of these great songs thanks for rediscovering this song. Turntable clamps - as I have two turntables it had to be a good investment. Great video thank you.

[@stephenlegg262]

Thanks Phil. I have a new Rega p6. Will give a weight a try. I have a few. Always heard a weight should not be used with Rega. Learn a lot on your channel.

[@MaterLacrymarum]

I use a 317.7 Gram clamp on a Rega P3. I can't claim to have better sound, and sometimes I have it on, sometimes not. But it does help a little with badly warped records.

[@jamesfarrow6752]

I have a Pro-Ject Xtension 9 SuperPack and have found that the clamp that comes with the turntable makes a difference, particularly with the bass, which is much tighter. As I also have the optional external power supply, which does improve the sound, in my opinion, It will be interesting to hear Phil’s thoughts on these. It’s a brave person that does a video on cables but I would say ‘go for it’ and just to make the debate more interesting, include power cables too.

[@BellTunnel]

When I got my P5 out of storage, the rear foot was distorted and the table wouldn’t sit level, so I upgraded to machined, height adjustable feet. Then I noticed that the plastic spindle (that’s attached to the subplatter) had warped, so I purchased a machined steel/titanium subplatter. I also added a Delrin platter and steel record weight. In making these changes, I noticed that the pulley wouldn’t sit right on the motor gear shaft, so I ordered a double pulley. I also upgraded my old TT PSU to the NEO MK2 PSU so that I can perfectly set speed. The Rega has never sounded so good. Music sounds more accurate, background darker, everything better aligned within its place in the soundstage. Edit to add that the most noticeable upgrades were the GrooveTracer reference subplatter and Delrin platter. They are incredibly, incredibly sound dampening. Especially compared to the original glass platter which is very resonant.

[@apollomemories7399]

Call me old fashioned but I'd have given up at problem #2 and simply bought a new one. Lol.

[@mikeuk4130]

Try the Origin Live Gravity One like I did. You can return it within 60 days if it doesn't work on your deck. It's light and clever, not just mass, and on my unsuspended deck it works brilliantly. It seems to remove all the unwanted, mechanically-generated energy which is reflected within the record, leaving tiny, wanted sounds exposed and clearly audible.

[@dell177]

I have a RP3 (w aftermarket aluminum subplatter to replace the all plastic subplatter that came with the RP3) and use it with A Nagoka TS623 record clamp that I bought almost 40 years ago with a Thorens 316 table. That old Ts-623 was actually engineered and does a much better job than anything else I've tried. It's light and has a collet that closes with a little twist and 3 spring steel silicone rubber pads that press the record down - it might not work with any plastic spindle. That clamp was a steal for the $10.95 I paid for it back then.

[@Anybloke]

A record clamp can flatten records which are dished upwards towards the middle. It can also stop records from slipping on the mat and thus improve timing.

[@JBLClassic]

I had a VPI with a weight and peripheral ring. I realized the negatives of using these heavy ass things when I dropped one on my record and damaged it. The fuss is not worth it for zero improvement.

[@martinweston7144]

I've just read a review in the August 2022 issue of HiFi News & Record review of the Vertere SG-1 turntable, this TT has a option to remove the spindle once you have placed the record on the deck. Interestingly in the test results, the in groove noise was a few DB better with the spindle removed, which suggests to me actually coupling a record with a weight or clamp might actually be making this particular spec at least, worse, and I suspect it might be the same with other TT's. Of course you might find this moot, and that you do find a gain in SQ elsewhere if you do use a weight/clamp, I just thought I'd bring this test result to your viewers attention

[@andrewrolfe8943]

Interestingly, removing the spindle has very little to do with lowering the noise floor - it probably does, but that’s not the point, or at least that’s my experience with a Rosanna Xerxes. On the Xerxes, removing the spindle opened out the sound, and the character could best be described as “the same, but more so”. That makes it sounds like a subtle effect, which it is not. A few years ago I had some friends round; I was in the kitchen doing some washing up when one of them changed the record. From two rooms away, in an echoey kitchen, whilst splashing in the sink, I could tell he hadn’t removed the spindle. And no, it wasn’t playing particularly loud. I went into the lounge and asked why he hadn’t removed the spindle. He said he hadn’t forgotten, he just thought it was a gimmick and couldn’t make any difference. I removed the spindle. Gobs were smacked.

[@williamsmollett8752]

I do enjoy your videos Phil - keep up the good work. Is heavier better ? (assuming your turntable has no issues supporting the extra weight)

[@COLDMKULTRA]

Great stuff Phil ... YES! ... Do the more "controversial" stuff ... Cables, et al ... don't worry about negative comments ... just ignore them ... No need to reply to such!

[@KITFLETCH1]

Does the weight/clamp slow down the drive on a Rega Planar 1?

[@jondubb35]

Weights don't really do that, but clamps absolutely DO flatten out warped records. I use a Michell Clamp that's made specifically for Rega tables, and it comes with a little felt washer that acts as a leverage point that the record sits on, and is lifted slightly up from the center of the platter. The Michell clamp is placed on the spindle and with very light downforce pressure the clamp knob is tightened, while flattening the record out on the platter surface. Works for all but the very worst warps. I use it daily.

[@haroldm4600]

Agree completely. I use a Michell clamp with my Clearaudio Concept and it most certainly does flatten warped records, especially with the felt washer beneath the record, to different degrees of course depending upon the type and severity of the warp.

[@uselessoldman7964]

I have the little rubber clamp that originally came with my revolver and I use it sometimes when its one of those late 1980s thin vinyl records. I would have thought a quality record deck had a balanced platter so adding weight to the middle would be a bad idea in fact I would argue it is a bad idea, in theory but always open to be corrected

[@robertsills2506]

If i remember correctly didn't revolver market them separately call did the pig

[@The_Original_Geoff_B]

@@robertsills2506 - They did. I used one on my Sansui SR222 for years, but it has vanished now (probably wouldn't have much effect on the P3 anyway).

[@SidBonkers51]

Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Raincoat is worth buying just for the the first cut on side one, 'First We Take Manhattan' featuring guest guitarist Stevie Ray Vaughan.

[@ENGLISHISBEST]

Going of track a bit aren't we.? Any comments on clamping as per subject would be useful.

[@ENGLISHISBEST]

Having the rega planar 3 in white I am very happy after knowing that rega the experts have spent months or years researching their own product inside out, so when someone comes along & produces a part for it I am sceptical that they are not as familiar with it as rega experts who would have done it already if it was worth it. So mine is as built by rega. I do understand clamps grip the record better on the mat though.

[@SidBonkers51]

Thanks for doing this Ive been undecided on whether or not to try a record puck and wonder why the prices vary so much, is there a deference between say, the Pro-Ject weight for £60 and a similar weighted puck sold by ebay or Amazon for £20? Im guessing as its just a weight there probably is no difference apart from the grams they weigh may vary? Or am I missing something???

[@apollomemories7399]

You can assume there's some heavy-duty up-pricing on the badge names. A weight is a weight, period.

[@SidBonkers51]

@@apollomemories7399 My thinking exactly.

[@skunk12]

One thing to consider is weight distribution on a puck.

[@paulbarnard5267]

Why is it that a change on a high end system makes a big noticeable difference but it makes less difference on a low end system? Isn't the high end system already optimised for the best sound? Logically any change on a high end system should be very small as it is already close to the best possible. I hear this stated all the time and simply can't get my head around it.

[@marktucker4528]

Think about it, the better the system, the more it reveals.

[@maxvangelder2301]

I am not convinced about the "chapter" the bearing will not suffer a lot from the weight from a clamp. The bearing is not designed ( I assume ) for holding another substantial weight on it. Up untill now I have not found convincing ( scientific maybe ) arguments this will not hurt the bearing to soon as we like it.

[@jerrypartington3650]

Adding a substantial mass to the platter, and hence putting the bearing under considerably more load is a sure fire way to ultimately destroy the bearing, that’s why Rega don’t recommend it. It would not be covered under warranty.

[@attrktmarketing4582]

I heard you say you owned an Ariston RD80SL. I have one. I’d love to hear one of your retro reviews on this turntable.

[@slowpawstevet3676]

I never used a clamp (after owning an Ariston RD80), i think they are an aid to rectifying inherent design flaws in cheap turntables.....if you have dished or warped records they can be replaced with new ones, if the record slips buy a decent mat....... simples. (-;

[@alexandrefernandes6286]

Clamp yes, weight no. I use a Michell clamp, which tightens on the central spindle. It can’t or shouldn’t be used in plastic spindles. The clamp tightens the record but doesn’t weight down the system as they are quite light.

[@davidgamble5756]

Only used a record clamp if it’s in the design of the turntable,example Avid

[@Phil_f8andbethere]

mmmm - I had a clamp on my townshend avalon and it was a royal pain having to stop and start platter to flip sides. I then had a Pro-ject Xtn 9 with that very clamp - on or off I couldn't hear any real difference. Weights and clamps put the vinyl in a stressed condition, so I for one am not convinced by their effectiveness. But, if they work for others and they like them, then good for them - enjoy.

[@apollomemories7399]

I disagree. Your records are in a "stressed condition" if they are not completely flat and clamps and weights rectify that problem. They also allow your stylus to track the record at optimum and you should in fact hear a better bass signal. If not then there maybe also something wrong with your cartridge position or stylus.

[@Phil_f8andbethere]

@@apollomemories7399 Not sure that is correct. The record in it's natural state is stress free. If you add a force to change it's shape it's then in a stressed condition. To my ears there was no huge difference with or without so I prefer without. But tbh it's up to each person to make a judement themselves I don't think there's a right or wrong on this, or many other hi-fi tweaks - it's personal preference mostly.

[@apollomemories7399]

@@Phil_f8andbethere I really don't think you've thought that "natural state" situation through at all very carefully. Invariably the record that you'd bought had not been stored properly and kinks duly appear, such as a slight bevel in the centre, rising upwards on one side and downwards on the other. You must have noticed this hundreds of times. All the weight does is counter act against that and promotes the record to lie flat. Similarly with a clamp. This has got nothing to do with "other hi-fi tweaks", as 1. it's certainly not a tweak and 2. actively cures a physical problem. And your record will sound better at the bottom end because your sylus is now fully able to track the groove floor properly. Any judgement is in the basic science as to whether the record is flat or not. It's really not a touchy-feely type of issue and purely a technical one.

[@rabarebra]

@@apollomemories7399 First. Records that aren't flat shouldn't be sold. Return them. Problem solved. Today there's too many brand new records being dished right out of the sleeve.

[@apollomemories7399]

@@rabarebra When did you last buy a record, if ever? How can you tell if a record is slightly warped when it's inside a sealed cover? It's not possible to do so, unless it's badly warped. It's always a hassle to return them, especially if it's by post and if sending back to another country. Anyways, I have the kit to fix warps using heated plate-glass quater-inch plates. Works a treat.

[@stephenroe201]

What about the PIG now that was a clamp.

[@glpilpi6209]

There's always room for improvement . HiFi products are built to a price , time frame and material cost.

[@glpilpi6209]

And sometimes the designers make errors too.

[@marktucker4528]

Sure, but do you have hundreds, maybe millions, to spend on R&D to prove your 'improvements'?

[@hugobloemers4425]

I have a suspended Turntable, so that would tilt the whole platter. But a turntable is an electrical-mechanical device so I can see weights have an impact. Also different mats sound different. All in all this should be one of the less controversial tweaks.

[@hoobsgroove]

it's not airborne resonance its mechanical more so the issue.. hardly anything from airborne directly, yes it can cause problems with mechanical resonance on a structure like walls not a turntable directly not big enough mass. could be issue with standard bearings on some tables without an inverted bearing more, more the shim can get worn. does the Rega have any shims or is it just brass base metal? that would be a good upgrade a flat piece of titanium inserted into a piece of lead and use a smaller ball bearing, are they standard stainless steel on Regas?

[@paulrogers7067]

Mr Roy doesn't agree with screw down waits

[@celiabarber1225]

How can a beautiful voice and expert musicianship ever be “dated”?

[@apollomemories7399]

It's the 80's synthy drums that are horrible.

[@Unclesalbert]

Rega says their TTs are designed NOT to be used with clamps and weights.

[@hifitommy]

weights are not clamps. clamps are. clamps stabilize the LP in ways that a weight only does a partial job of. and it does so without adding an inordinate amount of pressure on the main thrust bearing of the turntable. ...hifitommy

[@rabarebra]

With a clamp you have to stop and start the motor every time you change a record/side. No thanks.

[@MaterLacrymarum]

@@rabarebra Best practice for me is always to stop and start the motor for every removal/placement of a record.

[@marktucker4528]

@@MaterLacrymarum Which unnecessarily stresses the motor, control electronics and belt every time. Why do you consider this 'best practice'? What do you gain?

[@MaterLacrymarum]

@@marktucker4528 Protection of the Vinyl. Removing the disc while turntable is spinning is going to cause friction. Same with placing a disc on. The price of Rega decks, I shouldn't have to worry about stress of the motor doing it's job, the control electronics, and belt. Come to think of it, the control electronics is a very very simple piece of tech (I don't know if you've ever looked inside the motor.) I can't see any reason why it should fail in this instance. The belt? They wear out regardless. Personally - and it's totally fine if you disagree - I think it's a kind of madness to remove a record, and place a record, while the platter is spinning.

[@Roamany-Jones]

Sorry Phil but it's no 'myth'. I have the Gyroclamp and it's a screw on clamp. When you use it correctly i.e with the felt washer between the record and the platter on my Gyrodec, the warp in the record almost always flattens out completely if you apply enough pressure unlike the Project clamp which is completely useless as it is flat underneath instead of having a lip around the circumference. Still a nice video. 👍🙂

[@hugobloemers4425]

I think to flatten out a warped LP, you will always need a screw on clamp. So the myth is still a myth with just a weight.

[@tomwebb7091]

a clamp or weight does diddly squat for serious edge warps which are the only problematic ones anyway.

[@apollomemories7399]

@@tomwebb7091 Well, not entirely. Any warpage is problematic. Not that I own any with such an issue.

[@apollomemories7399]

@@hugobloemers4425 No, I disagree. The weight permits the record to sit as flat as possible in situ on the mat, rather than "floating" on the cushioned fibres of the mat.

[@tomwebb7091]

@@apollomemories7399 WTH you are the luckiest collector in the universe 😂😂😂

[@vinylrules4838]

Bring back the Pig! Anyone here remember it or have one?

[@robertsills2506]

Revolver made them came as standard with their decks

[@olbucky9413]

Obviously, taste is subjective. I haven’t been able to listen to Jennifer Warne all the way through despite being a Cohen fan. I found her performance overwrought. I suggest listening online before spending money on it.

[@tl9756]

They "Fit" on a Rega, they just don't "work" on a Rega..

[@winksplayle]

Best thing to do with those weights, putthem in the bin.

[@scottchegg1209]

You'll hear more of a difference on a "good" turntable, not a rega.

[@stephenlegg262]

That’s not nice. I love my rega p6.

[@JBLClassic]

You mean those big space ship looking things that totally suck the excitement out of music?

[@apollomemories7399]

Your backside is doing your talking. Does it play records?