RWBY Discussion: Quantity Over Quality

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[@SubliminaIMessages]

“Watch as the show introduces a bunch of characters, explore none of them, and then the school blows up”

[@voivodadracula1936]

Sounds like a Pumped Up Kicks series in a nutshell

[@s3studios597]

I forget. WHo's that line from?

[@williamchuba9397]

@@s3studios597 So This is Basically RWBY.

[@Radiolonestar]

I was just thinking about typing that quote

[@NayrAnur]

"WHY IS MY NAME SPELLED WITH A Q?!"

[@bronxshogun7089]

Ah, but you fail to see CRWBY's genius strategy in this matter: More characters=more ships.

[@colt1903]

Sadly, shipping ruins a series

[@twiinsiink]

Of course! How could I have been so foolish!

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

@@twiinsiink Nah, you just think too much; I mean, you TAUGHT me a new meaningful word: Deuteragonists.

[@mariobadia4553]

More ships = more support by their sheep.

[@Mr.Cynical]

@@MisteRRYouTuby Oh, but have you ever heard of the word; TRITAGONIST?!!

[@GTGAMERZ]

with the overwhelming amount of colorful character designs, unique weapons/fighting styles and bare bones development, RWBY would make an awesome fighting game series.

[@twiinsiink]

I'd honestly love an officially made "RWBY Warriors" game (like hyrule warriors, or fire emblem warriors).

[@ramsey276]

Considering they've apparently abandoned the mobile deckbuilder THAT WORKS and the IRL Combat Ready one that hints expansions in the rules I doubt they would put effort in a FGC project unless MAYBE some indie makes one and they hijack it OHAI GRIMM ECLIPSE

[@frankficcle7081]

Something like Street Fighter sounds nice.

[@heyarnold7256]

They'll probably make one when the series is done. Or atleast I hope they will.

[@transhumanhivemind3048]

The closest thing we have to a Rwby fighting game is Blazblue Cross Tag battle made by System Arc. I hope the same company goes out of its way to make a full rwby fighting game. It would be awesome.

[@the8flo1]

Team RWBY kinda developed tho... they got edgier

[@YueGale]

RWBY went down a really weird path after Season 2 and Monty's passing...they didn't fully utilize what was left behind.

[@the8flo1]

Maybe Monty wasn't the best story writer, but a least it was fun and awesome. Now it's just edgy and boring. Characters feel bland and just follow the plot because why not.

[@pathetic2399]

Ruby didn’t improve at all.

[@ArtPendragon]

cost them an arm tho

[@johnynoway9127]

@@ArtPendragon actually... arm and two legs

[@QwErTy-cw6fh]

You know it's a problem when you *can't* care about the *protagonists* , and start to turn your attention to the side characters, but even then, you flesh them out in your imagination. This is gonna suck when it's finally Volume 8.

[@demetriusprime1505]

Don't you mean 7?

[@QwErTy-cw6fh]

@@demetriusprime1505 Sure, but then it will increase more next volume. Then more. Then more. Eventually, there will be enough characters that you could start 2 or 3 more shows.

[@demetriusprime1505]

@@QwErTy-cw6fh But at least we'll have a fun game of spot the protagonist right...? XD

[@QwErTy-cw6fh]

@@demetriusprime1505 I can picture it now. "He's the protagonist!" "No, she is!" "It's the dog!" "No, it's Kevin!" Ah, the chaos that will ensue.

[@demetriusprime1505]

@@QwErTy-cw6fh Friend: Is it a male? Writer's: No. Friend: Is it a demi-human? Writer's: They're called Faunus. Friend: ... So yes??? Writer's: No. Friend: ... *Sigh* is it a female? Writer's: Yes. Me: *FINALLY* !

[@AngelicAvenger]

Honestly this entire video should have just been a picture of every character not named Ruby, Weiss, Blake or Yang, and then Super Kami Guru from DBZA yelling "WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE?!?!"

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

...that's an EXCELLENT idea. Make it happen, AngelicAvenger!

[@benjaminmcneil574]

Even better. Vegeta: Why are you even here?!

[@dr.spycrab4089]

Or Android 16’s “Why. Are you. STILL HERE?”

[@ej4j4i38wGwgeb8]

Just to suffer.

[@UnderEarthFilms]

Dr. Spycrab Or even... Trucks: WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE!?!?

[@heyarnold7256]

One Piece is another anime that actually handles this perfectly. Another user pointed out that the key to doing this is just taking turns with who gets development. Each arc every strawhat gets their own time to shine and a fair amount of focus that fleshes out their character. Keep in mind Oda is literally just one man drawing a Comic. Yet somehow he's still developing side characters even while the main story is still going on. So I don't think RT needs to cut the cast I just think they need better writing techniques and time management.

[@galaxyvulture6649]

He's a boss

[@josesosa3337]

Better organization too.

[@JanizMakudomaru]

Every time an arc ends you can see his genius show in the upgraded wanted posters and the Big News Weekly papers.

[@imatiu]

Pretty much everything RWBY does wrong, One Piece does right. Fleshed out protagonist, that the other characters actually have a reason to follow. One Piece Handling multiple characters and making all of them feel important. One Piece. Deaths are actually meaningful and heart wrenching. "I'm feeling emotional attachment to a boat!" Is a quote for a reason. Huge arc that ends in a terrible defeat for the protagonist and a complete change in the whole paradigm of the series. Villains... Everything referring to villains, mostly their backstory and development, holy hell Dressrosa was good at that. Characters development being a constant yet subtle occurrence which has solid reasoning behind it yet it's not shoved in your face. One Piece does all that and more.

[@josesosa3337]

@@imatiu same with steven universe. If it had better focus and better organization like one piece it would be better. The creator of steven universe likes one piece.

[@Celestia282]

The problem, I think, is that CRWBY doesn't understand the importance of slow moments. It's like your friend invites you over to watch his favorite movie, but instead of just putting it in and letting it play, he fast forwards to all his favorite parts and just shows you those. CRWBY has all these cool characters and cool scenes that they want to show us, but they rush us into each one. They develop an image of what they expect these ideas to look like, but they don't actually give us that full image. They introduce a new character they really like, have them do a couple things, and then shuffle them off to the side to give us the next one. They don't want to put in the work to actually develop anything. I think the show started out with good pacing, but that quickly vanished. They may have introduced a lot of characters right off the bat, but it could have worked with a slower, more focused pacing. The show was fine until the end of the Emerald Forest. After that, Jaune stole the spotlight for several episodes when all of JNPR should have fallen to the background for the rest of the volume. They can have their moment later. If the show had been better paced, JNPR would be little more than side characters until volume two at the earliest. Sun and his team wouldn't have even been introduced until at least volume three. Cinder wouldn't have shown up until volume four. And the tournament wouldn't have happened until volume five. The Fall of Beacon should have also been an entire volume in and of itself. End volume five with the Penny death and Grimm invasion, and then have volume six be more of a desperate, siege-like scenario where the addition of the White Fang becomes a mid-volume twist. It would have made the entire event significantly more important to the narrative rather than just being a simple turning point that is scarcely brought up again. As is, there's little to separate it from any other major battle in the series, despite it being, in lore, one of the most important events in history. It would have also gone further to shift the tone of the series into being legitimately frightening. They could have also taken the opportunity to kill off more than just three characters. No matter what, the tournament would inevitably bloat the cast, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. However, spending an entire volume on an extended conflict could have created more opportunities to kill off side characters without it all just becoming a joke that undermines the impact of each one. This isn't just a problem with too many characters. That is merely a symptom of the greater issue of its rapid fire pacing. The number of volumes may obfuscate it because you look at the number six and say that it's pretty big, so of course a lot of stuff happened, but keep in mind that these aren't seasons of a TV show. The longest volume is still less than five hours in total, and the early volumes have a run time closer to that of movies. All together, the show is the equivalent of maybe two seasons, yet we've already had five distinct plot lines with six major climaxes. The entire show needs to slow way down and focus on what actually matters. EDIT: I mean, the pacing is so bad that they had to put critical exposition into a side show because they couldn't find a place to put it into the real show.

[@colebehnke7767]

I believe that the entire beacon arc could be in just four Volumes, but the pacing needs to be tight and most of the characters have to be changed a bit.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

So basically what jelli apocalypse said.

[@aaroncartmill9359]

I personally think the murder switch should be flipped for cinder. She' been in the story since the beginning and isn't interesting enough to fill her role as main antagonist. Neo is way more suited to wanting to kill RWBY.

[@twiinsiink]

I at least hope that if they do kill her, it's because she actually fights the real protagonists for once. Cinder's fought Pyrrha, Jaune, and Raven. She's yet to enter combat with any of the girls from team RWBY and I think that's a weird choice for one of the main antagonists?

[@ramsey276]

Holy crap crazy idea here.... Neo backstab Cinder Cinder is so WTF TEH RAGE about it the NEO BECOMES MAIDEN Neo: OMGWTFBBQ Neo:..... Maiden!Neo: (So where's Ruby?)

[@gameuniverse5973]

@@twiinsiink Cinder is hot trash she got match up by pyrrah,got match up by jaune somehow,and got destroyed by raven

[@paulbutkovich6103]

@@gameuniverse5973 Eh, that's not completely fair to Cinder. Pyrrah got like one good hit off on her before Cinder flambeed her. Jaune got his ass handed to him and wouldn't have gotten that one strike in if Ruby hadn't had her silver eyes flash. Raven and Cinder were evenly matched (both aura's broke at the same time), it was Vernal shooting Cinder in the back that gave Raven her opening. Cinder is a boring villain now because she doesn't really change or do things. She keeps acting like she's the Big Bad when Salem exists. I liked Cinder well enough in Vols 1-3 but have to admit she's become tedious recently.

[@gameuniverse5973]

@@paulbutkovich6103 It makes maidens look weak which makes me think hazel the strongest rwby char bar Salem since it kinda funny that a guy with a shitty semblance seem more scary than magic since his feats are kinda crazy one being that he could keep up his semblance for that long with him getting injured,destroying qrow who confirm equal too base Raven,taking a hole in the chest and getting up like it nothing,and I actually think hazel would beat raven in a fight

[@joeyperticone361]

I think Glynda was supposed to be way more involved with the show, it’s just her voice actress was fired. And I think Winter is gonna make a comeback in Volume 7

[@enterusername6953]

Wait. Why was she fired?

[@taylorslade8080]

Enter Username accused one of the crew that they got promoted because they slept with Bernie

[@ghoxtlyrose4724]

@JMP SoulFox good job on forseeing the future

[@i8araddish653]

Oh i thought she quit cause she was being mistreated oof

[@oneangryboi408]

@@i8araddish653 That too. The voice actor for Qrow was fired over accusations as well. They killed themselves doing stuff like that.

[@JanizMakudomaru]

Ruby, a person who made a self thinking computer believe she was her friend, rarely talks about her after she was "killed", can't stop bringing up Pyrrha, a person who's most genuine conversation she had with her you only remember "Poles" and she considers her a friend.

[@quddushashim6638]

I remember hearing that Roman was originally suppose to be a one-off villain but Crwby enjoy the character and decided to tag him along for the show. Now Roman is probably everyone favorite and memorable villain that RWBY have to offer. So yeah, Crwby should have use the character that they already have for the story instead of keep making new one to fulfill role that the current character can do.

[@ProxyDoug]

I think Roman was a great foil to Ruby which is why she feels so bland now that there is no true "evil" person to contrast her since Cinder if off doing her best Lust impersonation.

[@quddushashim6638]

@@ProxyDoug to me, Roman and Ruby unintentionally have a interesting duality which is Naive Youth vs Cynical Adult

[@jakkubus]

Now Roman is dead.

[@quddushashim6638]

@@jakkubus Well at least RT won't ruin Roman unless they use flash back or retcon his character.

[@DocMicrowave]

Funny how they liked him so much that CRWBY decided to keep him on. Only to kill him off in the blink of an eye. 'I guess they really didn't want him on this train.'

[@atino7169]

No new characters for volume 7, please. Flynt and Neon can be used as the people in Atlas that show them around or try to help. They're already there, the fans love them, and Flynt would work wonders for Weiss' development if they work together. The advantage of using Neon is also that we have someone with first hand experience of discrimination in Atlas while still being someone we at least know the name of. Though this might just be my bias because I think Flynt was one of the coolest one-off characters.

[@frankficcle7081]

While I agree with you that Flint and Neon should return for the next season, we have been through this song and dance before. 20 new characters, at least. When they could do most of the next season with pre existing characters. Off the top of my head the only characters that has not appeared but should appear in volume 7 is Penny's "father" and Weiss's mother.

[@DocMicrowave]

I had not even considered that they might appear in my predictions for v7. Sadly, thinking about it now I dont think they will get an appearance. Dont get me wrong, I think it would be a pleasant surprise but I think the tend to keep adding new characters might crowd them out. Flint was a one off foil to Weiss. As for Neon, something always bothered me about her. How in the world was she (as a faunus) elected to a team that represents Atlas!? She could have been just a plot device by the writers but it creates an inconsistency on how Atlas regards the faunus. They may try to correct that little abberation by not having her appear in able to maintain the established fact of how Atlas treats faunus. Either way, with the plethora of new potential characters in v7, they may not have time for a meaningful appearance by those two. And having them appear in the background would be just cheap!

[@atino7169]

@@DocMicrowave that's why I want to see Neon, because we get to see someone we know go through the discrimination. For all we know, she did endure it and worked like hell to rise above it. Or she got in on a: "Seeeee? We don't hate faunus! :D" kind of program.

[@DocMicrowave]

@@atino7169 It would be nice to see her character. I could be wrong but I dont think we will. The writers will want the put emphasis on how badly the Faunus are regarded and treated in Atlas. Neon would kind of spoil that imagery. Having gone to Atlas's academy? Made it on to an elite team?? Being sent to the tournament to represent Atlas??? Maybe she was just a token for Atlas to show off progressive thinking, I don't know. But the fact that Illia had to hide what she was just to be allowed into Atlas's academy.....! Neon is anything but a carnelian. Kind of hard to hide what she is.

[@Luke-lq9rn]

@@DocMicrowave Something interesting would be if she got kicked out of Atlas for losing in the Tournament while Flynt is still there. Since that actually happens with Diversity hires; they get given a job they weren't ready for and will quickly get axed when they do something wrong.

[@Cityweaver]

Excellent points. Anime puts a heavy emphasis on "introduction episodes", then slowly develop their relationships while Western will throw 4-6 characters at you but establish their quirks/relationships, then slowly tell you their backgrounds. RWBY lingers somewhere in the middle, expecting you to assume and expect a lot about characters based on their fairy tales and archetypes, but then awkwardly throws in emphasis and backstory on characters---then never finishes their arc. And that's the main problem. Decisions just never get MADE. ATLA: Very animesque. Top gets an amazing introduction episode that ends with her deciding to teach the Avatar earthbending. Three more episodes are used to develop her actual relationships with Katara and Aang, as it turns out a single child from a rich family doesn't get along well with other kids. A more Western style cartoon would introduce all the kids together, then have a bombshell episode where you saw the stuck-up kid's home life and realized, "Oh, she thinks she has to be strong and independent to get respect." The main character/audience reflects back on past actions, gains insight, becomes more patient with the stuck-up kid, and usually stuck-up kid makes a decision to change since they can compare their stressful home life with their calmer dynamic with their friends and see something needs to change. Both are excellent ways of writing, both can lead to excellent character growth, meaningful story. RWBY.... Introduces Ruby, Yang, Blake and Weiss Western-style, groups the girls immediately, but doesn't establish the VERY CLEAR group dynamics usually needed to make the Western style work (Think back: R+Y= loving sisters, R+W= annoying girl trying to be friends with stuck up girl.... but what WAS Y+B, B+R, W+Y??? How long did the plot take to establish any tension between W and B over W being afraid of faunus? And how quickly was it resolved? Frankly, how quickly was R and W's comedic dynamic dulled down?) But then they separate the girls in order to have us see their home lives and get better ideas of who they are..... but the OTHER GIRLS don't see this (besides W being with Y when she met Raven), so what actual development comes from ANYTHING that happened in Vol 4 and 5??? Now, the show is using 4 and 5 almost like the Anime-style introductions to Team RWBY and is slowly developing their relationships... we are 6 volumes in and these girls are still musing out how they feel about each other. Let alone... Emerald regretting being evil, everything about Oscar, Jaune still having an undefined path, and Qrow being a weird half-useless, half-stealth protagonist.

[@brandonontama2415]

They should of never left Beacon so early.

[@Cityweaver]

@@brandonontama2415 At the fall of Beacon, I honestly couldn't even remember who the Bunny girl was, she'd left such a faint impression on me, let alone realize that she'd been taking pictures of everyone's fighting styles because her power/weapon copies them.

[@IrrelevantOaf]

The real MVP of this show is the White Fang Lieutenant. He's so badass that he dropped after volume 2 and only allowed the honor of a flashback in volume 3.

[@gameuniverse5973]

I mean he did beat Weiss with a chainsaw of all things

[@IrrelevantOaf]

@@gameuniverse5973 Defeating Weiss is truly the pinnacle of achievements... Yup.

[@gameuniverse5973]

@@IrrelevantOaf Uhhh then him being to tank all those hits are impressive

[@IrrelevantOaf]

@@gameuniverse5973 Now that is impressive because while Weiss loses a lot she does blitz well. Good ol' White Fang Lieutenant and his maxed out defense stats.

[@enterusername6953]

Whatever happened to the guy? Did he die on the train in volume 2? It wasn't very clear.

[@Andrew-be2qv]

Another big issue is that none of the characters really have their own motivations for being on the "good guy team." Look at Ren and Nora, what do they want? What are their goals? At least Jaune has his revenge plot for Cinder but that hasn't been developed outside of them having a small clash at the end of Volume 5. Same goes for team RWBY as a whole, before they figured out Ozma and Salem's pasts they were traveling together to get the relics, just because they were told to. Even Oscar and Maria don't have a good reason to be on the team, Oscar is the new Ozpin sure but take that away and he's just a farm kid who we still know nothing about and Maria literally has no purpose or logical motivation at all, Ruby could have just figured her power out on her own.

[@Troll_vs.]

I can argue weiss is only because she doesnt want to go back home not a real reason but dam i literally can not think of even a shallow reason for the other three

[@redhood982]

Unpopular Opinion: Maria has no real reason to be in the show other than giving pointless exposition about Ruby’s eyes

[@twiinsiink]

I agree. And it's rough because I do really like Maria as a character.

[@DeadCrowBar]

Your not wrong

[@Circusme]

Yup aaaand she's gone!

[@sunlitsonata6853]

To the point where she was just removed with no circumstance in the middle of Volume 8 and never acknowledged after that

[@lucasrobin2788]

A wall of text, AKA a list of characters that can be swapped with pre-established characters. Most are from Volume 4-7. (note: some are probably from other comments): Team CRDL: Instead of Cardin, Russel, Dove, and Sky, it's Cardin, Melanie Malachite, Miltia Malachite, and Russel. They're Team CMMR now (pronounced Summer). Russel, Dove, and Sky provide absolutely nothing for the story whatsoever. Therefore, get rid of Dove and Sky, and swap them for Melanie and Miltia. The twins are not super important, but they are the first named enemy combatants that we see fight in the show EVER, and they are minor schoolyard-level antagonists to Yang. It would transform Cardin's team in to the resident 'we are bullies' team they were designed to be, except we actually have a reason to dislike more than one of them. Plus, seeing the Faunus racism in the canteen come from two actual characters we already know works much better. AND we get to see more of Melanie and Miltia fighting, in the Pyrrha v Team CRDL/CMMR fight from V2. Klein Sieben - Flynt Coal. Instead of being Weiss' old friend, Flynt has gotten a shitty server job at the Schnee Manor to help support his family, seeing as the Schnees ran his father's dust shop out of business. Alternatively, he has been set to guard Weiss. Perhaps she tries to escape in the first episode of V4 and so he's assigned to keep eyes on her. Weiss and Flynt get closer, which means in Volume 7 Weiss can more easily call upon the help of Team FNKI. Also allows for some plot fuel if Papa Schnee does something bad to Flynt. Henry Marigold - Flynt Coal. Instead of rudely and ignorantly flirting, Weiss and Flynt share how awful the fall of Beacon was. Corsair and Fennec: White Fang Lieutenant. Note that Blake only briefly saw (and never heard) the White Fang Lieutenant; if he removed his mask, wore different clothes, and covered his tattoo, he would not be recognisable. He can act all mysterious and react surprised to Blake's arrival. Let the audience not know his true identity either until the Battle of the Belladonna Mansion and he picks up his chainsword, and the audience would be all like 'WHAT!! HIM THE WHOLE TIME!!' It would be a great moment. Plus, no more stupid fight scene with Corsair and Fennec's hot and blustery kitchen knives. And Papa Belladonna v Lieutenant boss fight. And Lieutenant's death instead of Fennec's is more significant. Ilia Amitola: Adam Taurus. Seriously. 'I love Blake but it's unrequited, I hate humans, I wear all black and my semblance is visualised through a change in colour' am I talking about Ilia or Adam? Have Adam stalk Blake in Volume 4 like in Volume 6, Sun and the Belladonna parents put it down to combat stress and then turns out Adam was on Menagerie the whole time, recruiting White Fang members. Adam and Blake fight in her burning house, Adam acts like a jealous ex much like Ilia did, and then flees. (As a change to the story, I'd have Adam successfully leading much of the Menagerie faunus to attack Haven. Keep the the Belladonnas behind to rebuild their burned down home, and Sun goes to help Blake in Haven + return to his team. Blake does not talk to Ilia in the train station in Volume 7, just Sun and Neptune) Hazel: Leonardo Lionheart. And vice versa. The only plot reason Hazel exists is to act as an obstacle to Ozpin/car/ma. The only plot reason Leo exists is to do the same. So merge them. Forget Hazel's incredibly backwards' logic about hating Ozpin (Your sister was killed by Grimm so you allied with the Queen of the Grimm? What??) and forget Dr Watts' acting as a middleman for Salem influencing Leo. instead, this new merger character 'Hazeleonardo' is the defective leader of Haven academy. 'Hazeleonardo' is cowardly and which is why his semblance blocks out pain. He needs to inject dust to be able to fight (maybe Salem is supplying him with Dust to fuel an addiciton, adding to the reasons why he defected). Oscar duels Hazeleonardo in the Volume 5 finale instead of duelling Leo and then Hazel individually. Vernal: Sadly, frustratingly, we have to keep her. Her role as the fake Maiden would be very difficult to do with a character we already had. I really tried to get rid of her, I really did. Maria Calavera: I love Maria to pieces, I really do. But she's an extra character that we just don't need. Like the video said, have Qrow explain Silver Eyes to Ruby. Ruby left home in Volume 3 before Qrow would have had a chance to teach her. He was poisoned immediately after revealing himself to RNGR of Volume 4. He could start teaching her in Volume 5 (unsuccessfully) and then in Volume 6, during the Brunswick arc, she manages to use it against the Apathy. Dee and Dudley: The newly formed team CMMR, or perhaps just Cardin and Russell. I think Melanie and Miltia are too popular just from being from the Yellow trainer to kill one of them off in the train fight. Just kill Russell, no one cares about him. Random dying Huntsman: Team ARBN. Instead of finding that random Huntsman guy dying in Volume 4, RNGR finds team ARBN, all dead apart from one. Maybe Bolin Hori, seeing as he got the only speaking role in Volume 3. He dies in front of them. This would: give RNGR a much more personal stake in that guys death; would give the audience a more personal stake too; make the Nucklavee more threatening, because it killed four fighters that we’ve seen as capable; and significantly reduce the character roster. Caroline Cordovin: Dr Watts and Tyrian. I put another comment on here explaining how they replace her role, but essentially Watts uses the Queen Virus to ground the local Atlas military, stopping the team from going to Atlas. Tyrian and Watts both fight the team, with Grimms assistance. With just that, we’ve eliminated 10 characters (Hazel/Leo, Cordovin, Dee, Dudley, Maria, Henry Marigold, Klein Sieben, Ilia, Dove Bronzewing, Sky Lark), killed off an extra 5 (Lieutenant, team ARBN, Russel Thrush) and decluttered the characters in Ruby, Weiss, Blake and Ozpin’s personal storylines.

[@gameuniverse5973]

Umm dude you do realize that hazel possibly one of the strongest rwby chars even tho he has a suck ass semblance Also blocking pain won't stop him from getting holes in his chest

[@lucasrobin2788]

game universe Yes, Hazel is super powerful... what’s your point?

[@gameuniverse5973]

@@lucasrobin2788 I find it dumb you put him as cowardly when he possibly the strongest dude ever in the show and his semblance still being about pain won't make sense if he feels it after or he still see himself bleeding tock semblance would make more sense for this hybrid

[@lucasrobin2788]

game universe huh? I never said Hazel was cowardly. I’ve fused together Hazel and Leo Lionheart, basically shoving Leo’s personality into Hazel’s body. I never said Hazel was a coward

[@gameuniverse5973]

@@lucasrobin2788 no you said if you combine them they would be cowardly

[@randomfan2270]

Half of the development of characters is through head cannons and assumptions.

[@jackalsniper4232]

On the other end, we have Red vs Blue, which has a lot of characters, but also managed to make each of them memorable. The Reds and Blues don't need an explanation. They're the main characters and each of them are important in their own right. Church's sarcasm, Tucker's sexual, Caboose's lovable personality and so on Then along came the Freelancers. Each of them is so unique and memorable that the show makes it easy to remember all of them. From North's caring nature, to Wash's initial clumsiness. That's why I've always preferred Red vs Blue over RWBY. Unlike RWBY, RvB gives each character a chance to grow with the audience. Characters like Velvet and Glynda haven't been seen at all since Volume 3. This show just doesn't do its characters justice. As a wise man once said: "The show introduces a million side characters, explores none of them, and then the school blows up"

[@GlassGolem]

I've heard it said that a common mistake inexperienced writers make is to create a large cast of characters to compensate for the lack of depth the characters they create have. Not realizing that more characters = more work.

[@cygnusking5996]

I really like the option of splitting them up. I thought that in volume 6 the story would switch between jaunse team and rubys team. While rwby learn about ozpins secret. Team jaune progress the plot by making there way to atlas to inform ironwood on whats been happening since communication is down, maybe along the way they meet Cinder who is also going to atlus ro track the relic

[@redx589]

Same. But splitting them up doesn't necessarily mean sending them to entirely different Kingdoms like Twiins Ink suggests. Splitting them up could just mean focusing on a couple people at a time. Like Ruby & Jaune, or Blake & Weiss, or Yang & Nora, or Ironwood & Qrow etc.They can still be in the same location. But tell different stories with each group of protagonists. Then have those various storylines converge into the main plot for the climax. A recent example of this off the top of my head would be Stranger Things which handled this really well. Almost like a scavenger hunt each group of characters is given a piece of the greater mystery/main plot and as the story goes on they continue to uncover more and more of the mystery. The more pieces of the puzzle they solve the more it brings them all together again in the end.

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

The *QUALITY* of the One-off characters is better than the *QUANTITY* of main protagonists. Let that sink in.

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

Here's my breakdown of your WONDERFUL Video (Keep it up, btw!): 1) *Why is RWBY's Large Cast a Problem?* It isn't, as you stated. The problem lies in what to do with them; again, as you stated. As you used DBZ as an example AND stated the years' difference between the two shows, you basically answered your own question. DBZ has a three-decade+ time period to really flesh out all the characters (One-offs included) while RWBY has only a 1/5 of the time and brought twice as many to the show to simply fill up time. One mistake, though. RWBY is NOT an anime, it's an ANIMATION. It doesn't follow the tropes of anime despite Miles and Kerry using anime as the only means of creating a story after Monty's passing. Also, since each of the One-offs looks 'cool' it really comes down to an abuse of the 'Rule of Cool' in that even the writers and animators that create the characters will ask Miles and Kerry and RT Corporate Heads: "Does it make sense to have this many characters?" and to which M&K (with RT Corporate Heads backing them) will respond: "Does it matter? Do it or you won't get paid!" To be fair, the writers/animators will clap back stating: "You hardly pay us at all..." 2) *How RWBY's Huge Cast has Affected the Show?* You can thank 'shipping' for the show's handling. Again, back to your original point. Having a huge cast is one thing; having a fleshed-out huge cast is another. Miles and Kerry (and the writers/animators) don't know how to WRITE/VERBALLY EXPLAIN a character out, but they CAN create unique and captivating designs...yeah, I'm making a stretch here since after Volume 4 onwards they lost ALL sense of the word...(was Maya REALLY worth it...?) So rather than GIVE us a character that would justify their design choices or complement their fashion, we get static background characters that are just...there. I miss the days when we had shadow figures to fill that purpose; at least THEN we could use our imagination. 3) *How They Could Fix This Problem and Why That Would Be A Good Thing?* Sadly, you're asking the wrong question. This is no longer a problem anymore. It's the standard. Having a bloated cast of One-offs is how Miles and Kerry see RWBY and that's how they will continue to address the story and show going forward. A better question to ask is "How do we make a compelling story with our bloated cast, and how can we make our protagonists stand out BETTER than the One-offs?" Yes, that was TWO questions...thanks to the conjunction of 'and' that was used. Addition by Subtraction doesn't always work. Still, I would like to respond to your ideas with my viewpoints...if you would be so kind as to let me indulge. 3a) Opt 1: *Have some characters stay behind.* That doesn't work, and the proof of this (recently) is the 'White Fang' subplot. The fact that the whole White Fang was swept under the rug with Illyia's dismissal at the beginning of Volume 6 basically invalidates its very existence to the show proper. Also, they already left a MAJORITY of characters behind, (Beacon Teachers and Students chief among them) and the show has not benefited from it. 3b) Opt 2: *Split up the Group.* This also failed. Twice. In Volume 4, specifically, the group was split up among the Main Protagonists themselves and each has not grown from the encounters that they faced. In Volume 6, you have the 'Brunswick Farm' arc, an arc (while receiving generally positive remarks) that can be completely skipped and would have no bearing on the Volume or show itself. 3c) Opt 3: *Kill some People (in the Show)* This is a colossal failure; worse, after Volume 3, they've barely had the courage to take out even ONE character (Adam, as he was done dirty *_and_* has been mischaracterized since). Also, you mention that the villains should die off to give the heroes a victory...um...the Heroes had a victory since Volume 1. If you only give heroes a victory, then why bother having villains? To move the plot? If Volume 5 has taught us anything, they can't even do THAT properly. To be fair, I still stand by my statement of Volume 6 being the worst Volume Ever. Here's my option (even though it WILL NOT WORK): Extend the chapters available; not the amount of time, but the number of CHAPTERS that occupy a Volume. If you're insistent of creating a large cast then you need to increase the number of chapters to balance out the number of characters. Instead of 13 chapters, do 26. Flesh out the world and expand on how even the One-offs' daily lives are affected and in turn, this would give the writer and the animators the practice and space needed to give us MEANINGFUL dialogue and world-building. Still, thank you very much for the opportunity to rant and rave; it was therapeutic in nature and I apologize for the outburst that I caused. Before I leave, I do have a question for you Twiins; why do you hate Deutoragonists so passionately? Is it because there's so many? Or is it because the main protagonists are no longer capable of standing out like the One-Offs to where fans still gravitate to them naturally?

[@paulbutkovich6103]

@@MisteRRYouTuby I think you're mostly right but I do have a few thoughts. 1. RWBY may not be an animation but all stories suffer when the cast is too big, especially when most members of that cast matter in some way. RWBY's lack of closure with minor characters is where they differ from DBZ, usually DBZ characters get to finish whatever they were doing before they fade into obscurity. 2. Honestly Maya was not worth it. The 3D-ness of Poser was better and more visually striking. None of the fights in Maya carry the same oomph now, even ones that are otherwise very good. 3a. I still think losing characters is a good idea. Ditching everyone but the four girls (and maybe Oscar) would allow this volume to be about them and their struggles. This would really help in making them stand out among the one offs. 3b. Again, I think splitting up could work SO LONG AS they do not introduce any new characters for them to bounce off of while split up. Having Blake and Sun chase Adam would have been ok, focusing on Team RNJR's dynamics would have been ok, but instead every split leads to a new group of characters. If they split them up again it should be to further existing dynamics (like Weiss-Yang and Ruby-Blake). 3c. See my problem with Vol. 3 is not that it killed characters but that it killed so few. If you want me to believe that Penny, Pyrrha, and Roman were in so much danger it makes sense to show students from the Vital Festival dying en masse too. People like Neon, Flynn, team indigo, Cardin, Port, etc. That would also amp up the threat factor of the Grim, the White Fang, and the out of control Atlas tech. I agree with the more time thing. Seasons should be 20 episodes, 22 minutes each, never mind how long it takes to make. Curious though, what about Vol 6 was worth than 5? Because that is the lowest the show has gotten yet in my opinion.

[@benjaminmcneil574]

They add so many characters and yet spend very little MEANINGFUL time with them. Feelz bad, man.

[@goldenangel158]

I agree they still haven't introduced the other maidens yet it would be easier to have different groups of characters go there own way do the writers can make team rwby like main characters and not waste time with characters we don't care

[@pathetic2399]

Lol they created so many side characters to focus on that their own supposed main character Ruby got shafted for development for several seasons.

[@nobody2996]

I think a big problem when it comes to team RWBY compared to the rest of the characters is in how they interact. Its rarely allowed to be an interesting intereaction because most of the time the writing wants to keep them looking good. When they interact with each other, it's always careful to avoid any tangible conflict between the girls (At worst, they'll be slightly awkward with each other), when they interact with other people, they're either being praised or unfairly judged, they have to look superior and whenever there's an issue they'll most likly be united as one voice and reaction to said issue making it feel pointless toe ven have those different characters (The Ozma reveal reactions). Any sort of conflict or disagreement they do have is in a safe and concequence-free enviorment, taking any sort of weight behind them getting over said conflict. If the conflict doens't affect them in any meaningful way, why do they need to resovle it or move past it?

[@twiinsiink]

Agree all the way!

[@nobody2996]

@@twiinsiink It's also the reason why other characters seem to get more focus, because they're allowed to do more since the writing isn't trying to compliment them. You can't focus on the main girls on their own for too long since that runs the risk of having the do something that could look bad without a group of supporting characters that distract from it, justify it or look worse for it. Jaune and Co are there becuase they're allowed to have a more shitty screw up moments that doesn't have a leigon of excuses to cover it up, they're allowed to have more varied interactions and they're allowed to disagree with one another.

[@brandonontama2415]

Agreed, why do the writers always make team RWBY morally right all the time? It becomes an problem the mech fight, where were suppose to root for the heroes even though they've stolen military weapons and have put everyone in danger.

[@justanotherchannelonyoutub126]

TBH, RWBY is just way too big for RT to handle. If they knew what they’re limitations were and how to work with them, RWBY would’ve been a solid show, but sadly RT doesn’t realize this. I mean, these were the same people who made Red vs Blue, a show that, at the time of its conception, was WAY more limited in what could be done, and they made it work! Oh well, I can’t complain too much, what’s done is done.

[@brandonontama2415]

This is what I'm saying, these guys were way too ambitious for their own good. To make an long series fantasy epic like Avatar you NEED money, so you can have more episodes to develop the world and characters, which was in Avatar case 2 million per episode. RT doesn't have that luxury, it can barely get to the 20min mark and it only has around 14 episodes, trying to have an serious story was an horrible idea, should of stayed an dumb action flick set in high school.

[@benjaminmcneil574]

@@brandonontama2415 If I had a nickel for every time I hear 'should have stayed a dumb action flick...'

[@brandonontama2415]

@@benjaminmcneil574 Cause it's true.

[@benjaminmcneil574]

@@brandonontama2415 Just interesting how many times I've read it. I mean, dumb action flicks are fine and all, but sometimes people would like some more substance to it. They usually want a purpose for these events, too curious for their own good. But if there's no reason why this person is fighting this person, aside from looking cool, then why would they care? This isn't a jab at anyone or anything, this is just what I read in the other side of this subject.

[@ProxyDoug]

I think it was the limitations that made RvB that good, they had to work with what they had and often that brings out the creativity in people.

[@reddyenumber2]

"The only way these kids are allowed to change is their outfits" .... ouch

[@stormstrikerpro]

I’m still under the belief that at least a good chunk of RWBYs problems would be solved if some members (like Nora, Jaune, maybe Maria) we’re kidnapped by the main antagonists.

[@MechanizedAngelz]

When I was younger I always said to myself, "Man, I'm going to make all my NPC characters have important faces because, I want to show I put effort into it!" but, as I got older I realized they don't do that because they're lazy but, rather because they can't develop all the characters and, I realized my characters don't need to all have a face and, "RWBY" is a show that really backs this up, with shows you should introduce new characters every season but, not a ton and, with only one being a priority... "RWBY" feels like a show for a video-game franchise trying to sell merchandise since all the characters just have to have faces so, people can have a favorite and, the thing is, I've seen better video-game shows than "RWBY" before so, that doesn't give them an excuse for the show to be so spread out.

[@MechanizedAngelz]

I have nothing to care for with this show since my favorites are either being dragged through the mud or, dead... those being Adam, Roman, Qrow, Sun and, Ozpin. Adam is just a lost cause which I do think they can develop him after his death but, the way they killed him is just so, bad. Qrow went from cool drunk to "Hey, kids drinking is a serious issue." which I get but, his personality change was so aggravating. Ozpin... it isn't even his fault for anything but, everyone hates him which I understand but, like... seriously... guys, can someone please realize that Salem and, Ozpin's relationship was equal to Adam and, Blake's relationship... they even have the same "I'll destroy everything you love." motif going on with them to a worse and, more tragic extent... wow, writers is it surprising that even boys can be in toxic relationships that aren't their fault, the fact that the topic is ignored irritates me beyond belief. Roman, I know he had to die for the story to get that "Everything sucks now." edge to it but, seriously that's it... they didn't develop Roman at all besides his personality and, while charming makes me have no hope for us getting any Adam content after his death which will seriously suck... also, they planned killing Roman a season earlier but, didn't because they liked the voice actor's voice for him so much or, something and, also, he never figured out his semblance which is just something waiting for a backstory to be developed but, it just hasn't or, never will happen. Sun... similar to Roman, only his personality was developed and, again while charming sucks also, I keep being enlightened that Blake's behavior to him was actually abusive due to many factors which similar to Ozpin makes it look like the writers don't know boys can get the same abuse that girls do and, making it worse by the character who keeps showing this is Blake who doesn't seem to realize she's doing this, I hate the Adam is her ex drama but, seriously if we say he was abusive can we also, look at how she treats Sun... the fact that the writers only put females in weaker positions shocks me... I'd be happy is Blake felt bad and, looked surprised at herself before apologizing and, Sun not understanding why or, if she sort of understood Ozpin because seriously why did everyone in the cast turn on him but, she doesn't... not even one person tries to understand Ozpin. The writers struggle with writing character backstory as well since we've only got the main cast's and, Ozpin's backstory with others sort of being linked but, that's it... we still don't know a lot Jaune's family all that well we just know his present is "tragic" because Pyrrha died, it doesn't have to be tragic we just need to have this stuff developed with small side hints like when he brought up he has a lot of sisters way back, "RWBY" tends to backstory bad since they make it so "tragic" that I honestly think they struggle with positive backstories since every time it's tell another character off like when Weiss says "I don't understand loneliness/sadness like you but, I have my own version of it.", the only good tragic backstory in my opinion that I've seen is Mercury's but, despite this his character is so terrible and, has far to many holes for me to even start due to his dad's weird semblance and, other factors. Also, I don't like Oscar but, he has a personality I liked cute and, shy kid that's adorable but, he has something that makes me wish he'll die to make the "RWBY" crew feeling bad for treating him like trash simply because he's linked with Opzin and, that issue is his character... he has none, he can be cute and, shy but he has no other character traits besides those and, it's the most annoying thing. And, on another note I've been waiting to see Penny's "father" for over three-to-four seasons, I've been anticipating it so, much but, they're really dragging this out. The only villain I want to see developed it Tyrian and, that's not just because he's an interesting character I enjoy, it's also because other than Hazel, Salem and, Mercury/Emerald(, because let's be real, their backstories are made to be packaged as a set), he's the only character who has no known backstory( or, small hint drops) with the added fact that he actually seems to have a character or, be heading in the right direction with the reason that he subverted my and, a few other's expectations of him being a nut-job with his flowery formal speech and, dropping the hint that he's interested in Jaune for some reason which is way more than we've gotten with Cinder ever... and, this has led to some theories which are interesting with most of them being that Jaune's family has some sort of faunus relation/history which I would love to see if they develop him and, Tyrian, it would be perfect to do it in a set similar to Emerald and, Mercury. (I'm also, interested in Watts but, he's been in the back this whole time which... I honestly have no complaints over, the guy is a scientist or, something of the sorts, he doesn't need to be on screen.)

[@brandonontama2415]

I agree, adding so many characters at once is something that an lot of beginner writers tend to do.

[@MechanizedAngelz]

@@brandonontama2415, yeah, it's a huge mistake... I thought people were lazy for not including more characters but, then I see video-games and, stuff like "RWBY" that just show me it's not laziness, it's just because it'd be messy writing since you just wouldn't have time for all the characters.

[@martyr_lightsilver1833]

@@MechanizedAngelz I'd rather be introduced to a bunch of characters at once and have the others slowly trickle in as the story progresses. That way, you get to say the main group's chemistry and interactions in depth. You familiarize yourself with them and that makes the introduction of a new character more interesting because they mess with the character chemistry. Said character may even help the other characters explore parts of themselves that weren't so obvious previously. Same goes with conflict.

[@thealliedpowers]

4:26 This right here. Penny was set up to be a major, pivotal character with the whole, "your time will come thing" and then she's just shafted but everyone cares about Pyrrha instead it seems.

[@raindrops6435]

Honestly. Penny had an actual friendship with Ruby and prior to Volume 3 did way more than Pyrrha with the main cast, but Ruby cares more about Pyrrha.

[@Outlawsrevenge1020]

@@raindrops6435 Honestly yeah I agree and it disgusts me. Ruby told Penny she was a real girl even though she was made of metal, she gave her agency, and helped us fall in love with Penny as a character. Yet she cares more about Pyrrha?

[@janiyaharielle8964]

The Allied Powers that's what's I was thinking. Like fuck penny guys? Really?

[@mdg245]

The “introducing way too many new characters that are all treated as important to the detriment of the main cast” seems to be a theme in Miles/Kerry’s writing. Like when they took over writing for RvB the same thing happened.

[@brandonontama2415]

When did Miles start writing R vs B? I'm interested.

[@mdg245]

@@brandonontama2415 Seasons 11-13. I think the writers changed again after that but to be honest, I stopped watching.

[@Hartzilla2007]

@@mdg245 I stopped watching after 10 as it felt like a good stopping point.

[@frogradar]

The hilarious part about coming back to this "Maria should stay in Atlas" Maria fucking VANISHED somewhere in Atlas. Girl was SO inconsequential to the plot, completely and utterly devoid of goals, aspirations or story she just VANISHED.

[@twiinsiink]

Yeah it was so weird that they just... forgot about her and Pietro?

[@frogradar]

@@twiinsiink i still genuinely think about this today. They didnt say anything about them just not existing anymore 🤣

[@hermitcrab_213]

“Stop bringing in new characters!” Aceops: I’m gunna pretend I didn’t see that

[@voivodadracula1936]

_"We have loads and loads of characters, just like FMA Brotherhood!"_

[@nectarinn3]

"And we have no freakin idea what to do with most of them, especially the main girls."

[@quddushashim6638]

Twiins: "they just throw every character at us at rapid success" in the background Pyrrha is being thrown into the main cast. I haven't finish watching the video yet but I for some reason find that part funny.

[@stuartherrera]

The cut of the door slamming on Whiteley was great too! I've said it before but she really kills it with the editing of her videos

[@quddushashim6638]

@@stuartherrera yup she did

[@twiinsiink]

Thank you, I was really proud of that :)

[@galaxyvulture6649]

Jesus I just realized assassination classroom has a giant cast and I somehow knew almost all of them reading the manga

[@Degthehalls]

Galaxy Vulture simple concept but consistent development and good writing so it gets a pass so it balances properly

[@twinodoom]

Leo's death annoys me so much because they just ignored the fact that Haven lost a Headmaster and most if not all of their Huntsmen. We don't know if he was replaced, or if he even had anyone left to replace him, but they only focus on the fact that he betrayed Ozpin to Salem. I couldn't care less about the people of Mistral not knowing that Leo tried to destroy his own school because they never actually showed me why the people of Mistral should care. Hell, with all the useless and redundant characters that were created, I'm surprised that the people of Mistral barely got any characterization. We don't know what they thought of Leo to begin with, or how much they thought they knew about him. His existence is redundant to the people his actions should have affected he most, because they don't know or care about his existence. He could have been dead from the start of the Volume with everything we learned about him revealed through Cinder monologging, and it wouldn't have changed anything. His life and death was completely pointless because all of his relevance was offscreen.

[@brandonontama2415]

I personally think the only reason why they stated that all the huntsmen died was because they would have to make more models and budget, I mean all the huntsmen dying is quite stupid if you think about it and has no affect on the world, that's like the US losing it's police force. Which is an shame, since I wanted to meet new huntsmen as well as Haven students.

[@culto2799]

Ah yes the most important z fighter NAIL

[@demetriusprime1505]

Naaaaiiiillll!

[@twiinsiink]

lol. I considered him "important or recurring" just because he's a part of Piccolo now.

[@stormstrikerpro]

I’ve read RWBY fanfics that are better stories than the actual show. Give some a read, what people can do when they focus on one character in a story is pretty interesting.

[@DatCameraMON]

Coeur.

[@seanbruce8294]

DatCameraMON I absolutely LOVE how Couer improves on RWBY characters that had wasted potential.

[@stormstrikerpro]

DatCameraMON Yep, that’s actually exactly who is was talking about.

[@Pojko]

Splitting the teams up won't work if the root of the writing issues isn't fixed. Brunswick Farm gave the illusion of character development, but in reality there wasn't any. Weiss' doubts about going to Atlas, as well as Blake and Yang's tension wasn't real. It was waved off as the effects of the Apathy Grimm. Those issues could have been interesting, but instead were never once addressed again after they escaped the farm. The show has so little time as it is to advance their behemoth of an overall plot that they simply don't have time for fun or interesting interpersonal relationships between the characters anymore.

[@ProxyDoug]

I hate how Brunswick is often cited as the best arc in the volume when it was all concept and terrible execution. A gimmicky monster of the week episode thrown into one of the most important parts of our character's journey.

[@brandonontama2415]

Leaving characters somewhere or killing them off are the only two options, splitting the group still gives the writers less time to focus on the main cast.

[@stuartherrera]

Whoa, wait a minute. You didn't like the super cool new villain, YUMA the bat faunus?

[@quddushashim6638]

wait that Bat Faunus have a name?

[@ProxyDoug]

Remember when Yuma got beaten by a tea tray? Classic Yuma.

[@twiinsiink]

Honestly, Yuma mostly just confuses me. They built him up a lot like he was going to be a new important character, just for him to ultimately be a random goon with a fancy design. Just makes me wonder why did they hype him up so much? I do like his design tho

[@ChloroPhobeTarantino]

@@twiinsiink Honestly I think it's because Yuma's VA is Nick Landis, the guy that plays Vegeta in DBZ Abridged. It's likely simple as CRWBY being fans of that series and wanting to hire someone from there so they could brag about it. Building him up in that one Menagerie cliffhanger was probably them justifying their hype for someone from a show they personally enjoyed.

[@twiinsiink]

@@ChloroPhobeTarantino Yeah, probably.

[@shadowroxili123]

sorry for the word soup im about to spew here but honestly yeah, why didn't they just make those huntsman jobbers into cardin and co, just make some stuff up about how they got their licenses or whatever in a different kingdom and came to that station for work bc somebody told them they could make good money. And then (bless maria i love her) but get rid or her character completely and have ozpin teach ruby about the silver eyes, all those lives (i'm assuming quite a few ended short especially at the beginning) he's had there's no way one of them wasn't a silver eyed warrior, and then that could add another layer to the betrayal rwby (ruby specifically) feels after the djinn reveal bc ozpin teaching her about the power of friendship contradicts his whole "i don't completely trust ppl anymore bc sad :(", toss out that marigold character that did nothing but piss off weiss and use flynt (yknow since hes FROM ATLAS, i know hes probably not an aristocrat but have him be a server or smth) and have them chat a bit about how awful atlas people are before the lady talks shit, Have the big scary faunus from the train in V2 apprehend blake for illya instead of dumb and dumber or heck replace those faunus brothers with him too, then we don't need to pretend he's good i don't understand why when there's a perfectly fine opportunity to use an already established character they waste time and effort to create an entirely new one just to bloat the cast

[@TheMasterQuit]

To Ozpin, in one of his flashbacks to past lives his kids do have silver eyes and in commentaries, I think they confirmed that he indeed had silver eyed warrior kids. So he should be able to teach Ruby something new I believe?

[@lonewolf141000]

Honestly, i think One Piece handels character quantity near perfectly. Theres probably more then 150+ characters in OP and yet most characters seem like they have a real purpose to the plot; while keeping the Strawhats mostly front and center.

[@heyarnold7256]

Oh didn't know someone mentioned this before I did. lol. But yeah Oda does this amazingly well. It's because how he does worldbuilding really. Oda makes sure that One Piece is a living breathing world where every character has their own story. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioimZ5yAi5d_hdk

[@lonewolf141000]

@@heyarnold7256 I saw your comment and you are 100% correct. Oda not only add new characters to the plot sparaticly but also gives each strawhats their time to shine so they can truly develop. Robin is a perfect example of this. When she joined the strawhats I was indifferent towards her for the most part. Honestly I thought she would just be a temporary addition to the StrawHats like Vivi was. However after Water 7 and Eneis Lobby, my whole perception of her changed dramaticly. With all the shit she went through with the Strawhats and the character development she recieved during the arc, I feel like if Oda got rid of her tomorrow, the dynamic of the main characters just wouldnt be the same. I view her now as a Strawhat, as part of the family. I feel RWBY attempted this with Ren and Nora during volume 4, but the problem is that after Volume 4, not only those two are for the most part useless to the plot but there was barly any change to there characters after the fact. Robin in OP still contributes to not only the plot of the series (shes basicly the encyclopidia of the Crew), she also mentally changes significantly after Eneis Lobby.

[@lonewolf141000]

@@heyarnold7256 And yes! The would building adds to this. Honestly I wanted to add this point but I didnt want to write a wall of text, so I focused on narrowing the scope of the main protagonists. But yea if it wasnt for Odas world building, then OnePiece wouldnt be what it is now.

[@redx589]

There are actually more than 800 named characters in OP.

[@redx589]

@@heyarnold7256 Hey did we talk about the whole Jaune controversy before with someone?

[@JusChez]

"THATS STILL 21!" Slayed me lol

[@twiinsiink]

Nice!

[@solsun7350]

Well you see RT has more character because more characters mean more fan art. Which means more people watfu it. Look at Sienna Khan and Summer Rose Note: no Villain or hero has any build up. Like at all

[@Cityweaver]

Like Sailor Moon, going to emphasize DBZ's pacing. Dragonball started with Bulma, Goku and a pig named Oolong, with Yamcha tagging along as a thief who made commentary about their weirdness. Second arc, Goku left Bulma to train with Master Roshi, met Krillin (and Lunch), culminating with their first tournament arc, which not only didn't introduce any new main characters, but the final challenge was just Master Roshi in disguise. Third arc, Red Ribbon Army, Goku and Bulma fight against andriods, including crossover fun with Toriyama's other manga. Four arc, Goku continues training, prepares for the next tournament, introducing Teinshinhan as the winner. Fifth arc, Goku trains for a rematch against Tien, wins, and during his celebration dinner, Krillin is murdered by King Piccolo. Tien and Goku fight Piccolo, Tien redeeming himself. If RWBY had Dragonball's pacing, we wouldn't even be meeting Blake until Volume 3, when, as a White Fang member, she helped Adam invade Beacon, then in Vol 4 she turned against him because of how out of control and violent he'd led her to becoming and then, in Vol 5, earned RWxY's trust and the team was finally complete... at long last, after volumes of it just being two happy-go-lucky sisters and the stuck-up, by-the-book Huntress who stopped getting them arrested for fighting Roman Torchwick without Huntress licenses and joined them after finding out her father was a lying scoundrel and Roman's backdoor supplier.

[@thirtysixviews]

THIS. This is honestly what RWBY needs. Good pacing like this. As of now, the show is way too bloated and Mile and Kerry don't realize this. It's so superfluous and had RWBY followed a format like this it could be the best web show ever made. Instead we get a show with too many characters, lazy writing, and half-assed development.

[@Step43099]

I wholeheartedly agree. Why on earth is *Semblances* the special power that 98% of the characters use not given an explanation until *Volume 5* .Imagine if Naruto didn’t explain Chakra or Jutsus until the Konoha Crush arc. Why is Aura and Semblances not something they delve into

[@fightingmedialounge519]

How dragon ball used those characters is a mother story.

[@s3studios597]

RWBY's full of problems, but Blake being introduced that late is a terrible idea. She's one of the main characters of the show. That's like waiting 3 seasons to have all the Ninja Turtles to get together or 3 whole arcs for Team 7 to form. Not too mention completely goes against what her character is supposed to be and the overall type of show RWBY is.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@s3studios597 except it took that long for the strawhats to fully come together.

[@bfnvalley]

RWBY currently has 3 characters that I would consider contenders for “Main” character. Ruby, Jaune, and Oscar. That shouldn’t be the case.

[@asuna5701]

I love RWBY and will never drop it. I love these critiques on the show because it further opens my eyes to the flaws it has.

[@jamesrobson8308]

Yo can still like a show, you just gotta know the had points

[@jamesrobson8308]

Bad*

[@Demedich1]

I still fund it funny how the only character in the show to have consistent development every volume is Jaune. I mean he is literally the only one with organic development that feels realistic isn't suddenly monkey wrenched in iut if bo where (ex. "Strong female protagonist" Yang, Ruby needs to learn hand to hand) I think you may have gone over this before in another video.

[@joshwoodferd5737]

Long story short: the writing is bad. Its just bad. As much as it as good moments, and some characters that you can get attached to, the overall planning and execution of a really cool world is just lack luster, sporadically developed, and comes off as they don't care even though they clearly do with the effort put into it.

[@twiinsiink]

I couldn't have worded it better. Agreed!

[@rayelanchard6868]

This show feels a lot like Bleach. - Amazing designs for both protags and antags. - Incredible badass music and fight choreography. - Poorly, underutilized massive cast of interesting and diverse characters. - Bad, lackluster, repetitive storytelling past the first main arc.

[@brandonontama2415]

I agree, Bleach and RWBY are similar.

[@redx589]

Not to mention Hollows & Grimm are basically the same thing....

[@timebrain3188]

I agree with all of this, save two points: 1. Honestly, Penny was next to pointless from her first appearance. She only ever interacted with Ruby, and her 'arc' of making a friend despite being a robot was finished. She could have had more development if she started attending Beacon, become someone to actually care about, but... well, volume 3 was a disappointment in numerous ways, so to speak. Frankly, still don't understand why people want her to come back in the first place. 2. I get that RWBY is the titular team, but JNPR are also main characters. They're the Red team to RWBY's Blue from RvB 1-5, lovable and have some shit going on, even if they don't necessarily drive the plot as much. I honestly wish that was reflected more, but oh well.

[@brandonontama2415]

1) I agree with volume 3 being overrated, killing of characters with potential for shock value is one of it's MANY problems. There was an lot you could of done with Penny and Beacon, now they've ditched the school setting which was an place were we could get spend time with more characters but now were in an adventure, the consequences of ditching the school setting in volume 3 show itself in later on, which makes me wonder WHAT WERE THEY THINKING! 2)Disagree, this no time for favouritism, JNR add nothing to the plot and there arcs are done, then they need to go so we can focus on RWBY.Ren is easily the most flat character in the entire show, despite the fact that people mock Mercury for being an non-character he has far more character then Ren, other than his backstory (which added nothing to his characterization because there was no characterization to begin with) his nothing more than Nora boyfriend, not to mention useless, I mean how many times has this guy jobbed or contributed nothing to an fight? Same with Nora, she has an fun personality but she one note nothing more than Ren girlfriend and I will not talk about Jaune. They add nothing to the plot which is why they have to go, when there around I always wonder "Why they hell are they even here."

[@nobody2996]

Penny's only purpose was to be a death that only specifically Ruby would give a shit about. From teh moment of her inception, she was just 'Ruby's Friend' who had almost no interaction with any other character.

[@jackolantern6719]

Volume 3 (for me) was not disappointing in a sense that the show was actually getting me more hyped to see what lies in the later seasons of rwby it showed that there is a risk that the writers were willing to take to create some depth for their story it showed that things could take a much darker turn all of a sudden But since the characters were not developed properly enough and the world wasn't fleshed out enough it came out as disappointing for some people

[@twiinsiink]

Penny was more naive than Ruby. Ruby had to "grow up" in order to help Penny understand things. Ruby shows an impressive level of maturity when talking with Penny, while also displaying how her own optimism can still work without the "pure and niave" shtick. Penny prompted Ruby to grow. The problem is that with the start of volume 4, Ruby and the writers forgot about all that. RWBY doesn't need a proverbial Blue team. Especially when the "blue team" takes center stage so often that half of the "red team" have gone undeveloped for 5 years. JNPR don't need to vanish from the show, but they (and the writers) need to learn when to keep them on the sidelines so the titular team can get a chance to shine as well.

[@timebrain3188]

@@nobody2996 Aye, which makes it all the weirder that her death nor Yang's disarmament (bud dum tish) didn't trigger her silver eyes earlier, but I guess that kind of would have ruined all they had intended for the remaining episodes of the volume... :T

[@brandonframe1743]

I think the change is how boring they sound when talking. Like Yang. She became the most boring character in the cast

[@johnking9943]

Agreed. I get that, in the case of Yang or Raven, they're meant to sound stoic or badass, but instead, they just sound uninvested. And if they have no investment in the events going on around them, why should we?

[@brandonframe1743]

@@johnking9943 Raven still confuses me, like most of the villains motivations to being with Salem.

[@twiinsiink]

Yes! 100%

[@andreag2909]

She used to be so much fun to me. Then they just killed her character

[@twiinsiink]

@@dragonborn7955 Blake's voice actress moved to France 2 years ago, so it could be worse

[@thefloofartist1908]

I'll edit this comment after I've watched the video, but the title is exactly what RWBY suffers from. It's like the McDonalds of animation, there's only padding with no actual substance and feels just as fattening (time consuming) as consuming real fast food. EDIT: This is a good video. It's a damn shame that Miles and Kerry will likely just ignore your advice and add ten new named characters in Volume 7.

[@MechanizedAngelz]

The only real story that is worth your time with "RWBY" is often the fan-fictions which is hilarious because most of the writers are better than the writers of the actual show when it comes to making new characters that aren't that important for the actual story.

[@markuseavids5362]

Are you scouting the FNDM to see if RWBY is worth watching again only to realize it is still bad?

[@ollin-tonatiuh6418]

TheFloofArtist This comment offends me, i eat McDonalds.

[@DatCameraMON]

OOoof, I checked the subreddit to see if anyone posted this there and man, they don't like it according to the few comments on it there. Does anyone on the RWBY subreddit actually like any critic other than Unicorn of War? Edit: Also, one comment even mentioned that it can't be a good video if you liked it Floof, like, what is wrong with some of these people?

[@thefloofartist1908]

@@ollin-tonatiuh6418 I WORK at McDonalds lmao

[@adrianoc.hartmann9453]

The RWBY fandom cares only about fan service. They prefer screentime to be given to non important characters for superficial reasons rather than important members of the cast

[@Degthehalls]

Adriano C. Hartmann this is the same thing my hero academy suffers from like one whole arc was just aggressive fan service and then what happened was the worst arc because it all was superficial

[@benjaminmcneil574]

@@Degthehalls What?

[@StoogesFan]

RWBY should do what the Fate franchise does: make the story in different routes so each group of characters get their time to shine and show what happens in each route.

[@gipgap4]

After binge watching all of RWBY seasons from 1 - 7, I fully agree with you. Too many characters, too many spinning plates meaning not very much character development for the main protagonists. That’s not to say I didn’t enjoy watching it during the lockdown but the biggest thing for me so far is that Ruby hasn’t developed hardly since episode 1 and she’s the main character!

[@electricblaster7798]

Why are they leaning towards redeeming Emerald? Did they forget that she killed a man in V2 and showed no remorse, killed Penny, and was essential in the Fall of Beacon?

[@twiinsiink]

Because the fans think she's cute and have been volleying for her to join the good guys ever since Cinder ignored her hug in Volume 2 Episode 1.

[@electricblaster7798]

@Dicelord N Yeah, I know what redemption is, but there's a point where a character is too far gone to do that. I'm pretty sure once you kill someone or cause a tragedy like Emerald did, it's too late for her.

[@benjaminmcneil574]

@@electricblaster7798 I dunno. Redemption wise, Vegeta from Dragon Ball really, *REALLY* suffered and worked for his. As in, spent the entire series developing from complete asshole to a somewhat decent person. Though I don't expect RT to be nearly as good in doing this.

[@JokeyZockey]

@@twiinsiink You forgot ''Because she's female'', since we all know that (sadly) RWBY's male character population is a lost cause, both in and out of the show

[@brandonontama2415]

@@JokeyZockey I laughed when you mentioned in the show lol.

[@DerMelodist]

RWBY: A case study in how fan input and fan service ruins a show.

[@stabbun]

I really liked the ideas you thought of for using established characters vs new ones, and how to get rid of the big roster. Very nice video!

[@twiinsiink]

Thank you!

[@Just50001]

I think the fundamental problem is the crew seem to feel a need to make the plot a story driven one over a character driven one. A character driven story doesn't necessarily need to push a 'main' plot forward, and can take its time to focus on the cast rather than some overarching "epic" journey starring a small group of central characters. To that end, one could reason that's part of why most of volume 1 and 2 for all of their flaws work a little bit better than volumes that are supposed to be miles above the volumes prior. While they did focus on multiple "protagonists," Cinder's plot was just an excuse to create fight setpieces and could've become a part of a recurring villain narrative that would break up the monotony of a "monster of the week" format. V6: we have a group of unproven huntresses, who have not even received a full education nor graduated hunter school, breaking laws and mutually bonding over the death of a foe. And they are considered by the writers to be in the right to do so.

[@benjaminmcneil574]

Oh...I just noticed that. They haven't even graduated and are dealing with something world-ending. ...Preeeetty sure that's out of their depth. At least it's supposed to be.

[@travonarmstrong6093]

Can you really call a story "plot driven" when the proverbial train goes nowhere?

[@Just50001]

@@benjaminmcneil574 But remember Ruby has SPECIAL EYES so that makes them the saviors of the world, don't cha know. Honestly V3 pretty much lays Miles and Kerry's intent for the story on the table; we wanted to start over from scratch so we made fall of Beacon happen first chance we got and claimed character development happened between volumes. So now we have a bunch of students who aren't even proper graduates, who IIRC didn't even finish like more than a single year of Beacon academy education and who M+K expect us to believe have "grown so much" since their time at school. We traded too many characters for too much plot.

[@Just50001]

@@travonarmstrong6093 Oh the train is going somewhere. Our protagonists just got on the wrong train is all.

[@MoCa1979Jr]

I don't think the issue is that there's so many characters, but rather CRWBY doesn't really do anything w/ them. The series would be better served if some of the characters were killed (on cam) in a notable way, in order to progress the plot and/or help w/ character development.

[@brandonontama2415]

Except an good writer understanding how little time they have would never add so many characters.

[@MoCa1979Jr]

@@brandonontama2415 Well, who's accusing CRWBY of being good writers? 😂 But you can still add a bunch of characters, I say. You just have to find something to do w/ them. If they actually killed off some of the characters on-screen in a meaningful way to progress the plot, then there'd be no issue. But they just introduce characters, don't make them interesting (outside of their design), they don't reveal their pasts or semblances, & they just "disappear" w/o any real reason or explanation. Think of Tock & how interesting she was & how ppl wanted to see more of her. But she was killed off & it helped to progress the story.

[@brandonontama2415]

@@MoCa1979Jr I didn't say you did, I was just saying if they knew how little time they had they should never put so many characters.

[@MoCa1979Jr]

@@brandonontama2415 You do realize that was a rhetorical question, right? I was essentially stating that CRWBY aren't good writers, as evidenced by the current attitude towards the series. And again, the issue really isn't the number of characters, but rather them not knowing what to do w/ them, and/or implementing them effectively in the series. They obviously created so many characters because they wanted to have a "school setting". But they didn't think beyond that what to do w/ all the students. And they seem to have an issue w/ killing off characters, in a meaningful way that both impacts the other characters & progresses the story. It's like after Pyrrha's death they were afraid to kill off any of the "good guys" (on cam).

[@redx589]

I'm actually against that tbh. Killing off characters for the sake of plot is rather cheap.

[@leroythor9173]

I bet it's because every side character is an RT members personal OC. It's probably why no one dies because that'll get them mad or something. That'll explain why they're all over the place and why they have so little role while being portrayed as important. It's strange how the plot is similar to the few roleplay that I've been in; senseless and lack of direction...

[@jamesrobson8308]

No but some of the vital festival ones were. Or something,

[@Mr.Cynical]

I feel as though My Hero Academia does this A LOT better. Just with one season alone, we had more than 20 characters with names written into the story. But, the writers knew who to focus on, so we knew who are main were, who are side characters were, and who would stay in the background. Then, with each season, they kept on building and developing more characters as they went along, with either a big arc focusing them, or smaller parts to help them grow later in a big way. They also split up their cast so that they can also develop on their own or with characters who don't get as much screen time as the main ones. And throughout all of this, they STILL give their main characters the proper development they need to stay the main characters. Compare this to RWBY, where their main cast doesn't seem to get as much focus or develop after Volume One.

[@thatcrazynerdgirlproductio4481]

Another thing My hero academia does better is its side characters. Like you said, they don’t overshadow the main character, but they are more fleshed out simply through their interactions. They comment on what’s happening and make jokes and interact with more than just one person. Class 1a feels like a class rather than a few separate groups. You can tell so much about a character’s personality just by watching them interact with one another. It’s amazing and I wish RWBY could do that.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

I don't if mha is the best example that clear central protagonist and if you just watched season 1 alone most characters would feel rather flat.

[@Homodemon]

Hahaha this aged like milk

[@Mr.Cynical]

@@Homodemon Nah. I still think this aged well.

[@SGR403]

@@Mr.Cynical What about now?

[@Akitoscorpio1]

V7 did none of this if anything it added and entire new squad of people I don't give a single shit about.

[@twiinsiink]

It added so many new characters!

[@ledge-magee]

It seems this show could actually be alright if they just focused on RWBY and JNPR as foils / opposites of each other and act as a comparision / development to each other. But idk, I don't make enough money for this.

[@theanswerisa3758]

You're really making me think and ensure that I'm not introducing too many characters too fast in my own stories. Much appreciated when a video can make you think. 👌

[@twiinsiink]

Nice!

[@gamebawesome]

JelloApocolypse summed it up perfectly

[@Victor-056]

9:26 the Eight Deadly words. "I don't care what happens to these characters." And it's always for a good reason. 11:52 The problem with this "Solution", is that RT already did that. And they failed to make it better. They missed the memo that when you kill of characters, you don't fill the slots after two episodes. 13:04 Agreed. That Scene in the train Could easily have reintroduced Neptune into the cast, even if only for a while, maybe even Cardin, who, as an example, has changed after he lost the rest of his team in the Fall of Vale. 13:50 Frankly, Sienna Khan had already existed as far back as Season 2... But only in name. She never had an appearance or a Gender. And frankly, her role was a big waste. Turns up in Season 5... And gets bumped off. Wow. Could have made it so that Sienna gets defeated, not killed, _defeated,_ and turns up as an ally at a later date, like that Scene in Season 6, where she could have actually turned up to Save Blake, and distract Adam so Blake can return to her Team. What happens Offscreen wouldn't matter, since all we get is the fight getting Brutal, but we don't see the winner, leaving us guessing who wins until later if it's confirmed. Also, it means that the So-called 'implied' shipping is ripped away. And frankly, CFVY could have helped during Season 5 and 6, since Meringue Could have been Velvet's home, and CFVY Could turn up to help RWBY, or in Season 6, be some of the train Defenders. Of Course, the biggest problem wasn't _just_ too many characters, it was the fact that RT somehow thinks that they can also get away with shoving Filler words and stories into episodes that don't need it. Season 4 was the biggest one. It was nothing but episode after episode of exposition, rather than proper development. It didn't build on the world around them either. Closest we got was Blake travelling to Meringue, and even then, it wasn't much worth. There was no proper world building, what RT put in there was Exposition that they labeled as 'World Building'. Season 5, as you established time and time again, didn't develop anyone, and actually Downgraded the characters just to get the plot rolling. Season 6, at first glance, seems to not have a problem in the first half... But when I went over it again, I realized that it was all a pretty illusion. Season 6 was shite through and through, with only the false illusion that it had a good start. It's very prominent that the 'Implied Bumblebee' was in there as far as them trying to fight the Apathy, since we see how Yang was willing to Leave Ruby to Heft her Incapacitated Uncle out of the house, while pulling the _Healthy_ Blake who is sober and hale, by the arm, as If her baby sister and Uncle don't even matter at All, and The Animation on a second look, is slow and robotic, with combat being railroaded. And that is them on a budget higher than fifty dollars. It's like when they had no money, they worked better.

[@FourFourSeven]

_"And that is them on a budget higher than fifty dollars. It's like when they had no money, they worked better."_ ..........Y'know, that actually seems to be a recurring theme with most, if not all businesses. Great example is EA: very rich, but very poor personality. They were a pretty good company in the distant past, but they've long put aside the visions they had for the games industry, and replaced it soley with "$$$". God help RT if they completely develop a full-scale corporate culture...... Ideally (keyword being "ideally"), money shouldn't be the end-goal vision of a business: It's the reward for providing high-quality/superior products. The more money one makes, the more they can maintain and increase their products' quality to maintain their standing. If they start screwing it up, well........we all get what usually happens.

[@arturohernandez473]

Yeah the first three at least felt like it had an arc also why is it in volumes couldnt they make it season 1-6 what with these volumes cause if you put it together its basically two seasons worth if watch time or a movie. Some episode could be 10 mintuies another could be 30. Why, and personally i dont hate ships but i feel like the show just rolled with it after 2 and we barely get any real devolepment with them either way. Either people think its devolped with "sences" of the show that seem to scretch it by a lot. Or are only because they are a couple like they are this and only this together. Ren and nora became this a ship people say awww thats cute and nothing else. Or yang and blake who people think are gay for each other for some reason. And pyrrha and jaune hate its when it first came still do and shes dead. And never answered if jaune had the same feelings or not they leave it up for grabs. Hell they thought coco and velelt were gay for each other they siad coco is a leasbin yeah the most irrevent team since the villans of the show gets a book and team rwby get a comic explaining events between volume 5 and 6 really. And they also add another villan who take semblences from other and then leave it at that

[@Victor-056]

@@arturohernandez473 Frankly, Renora and Arkos are both Ships made by Monty Oum, and while I don't consider him a 'Divine Figure', a lot of idiots ignore that he was the main brain of RWBY, and basically WoG for the series due to being it's creator. And it's very clear what 'Ships' he Truly had in mind. He actually wanted Black Sun rather than Bumblebee, which is very Clear from how Blake and Sun developed their relationship throughout season 1-3, and Bumblebee wasn't a thing, since Team RWBY was fully intended as a Sisterhood, that is, _Family_ rather than a Team of Lesbians. It was only when M&K took over after Monty's death and the End of Season 3, did the series Spiral down that Shithole. Monty Oum may not have been the best story writer, but RWBY was his Baby, and RT butchered it for the sake of ungrateful Political Pandering. And frankly, it's the changes RT put into the story that made me Question if Pyrrha should have died, since another thing that came up, was that Pyrrha was to die much earlier in I think Season 2... But since she was so popular with the fans, Monty decided to keep her around. And frankly, The Manga developed _EVERYONE_ better than RT did, on the grounds of keeping Political Pandering out of their pages. Blake actually gets to _talk_ to Velvet, you know, the only other _known_ Faunus in the School. It's one thing that RT should have done, other than hold off the Fall of Beacon for Season 4, and that was to have RWBY interact with other teams beyond SSSN and JNPR. Hell, even just giving CRDL more interactions could have showed how much they changed after Jaune saves their Sorry arses with help from Pyrrha! Develop RWBY, while also Developing the rest of the teams into proper characters! The Series Length was at first due to both Software and Hardware limitations, but is inexcusable for the later series, where they have both the resources and Equipment for longer seasons! And frankly, Coco being a Lesbian was only in a Novel they released... However, it was released in Season 6's time, which makes it incredibly redundant, since that was when RT had their head in the Kool-Aid and not stopped guzzling it down. The Manga and Series Proper never brings it up. Coco was Honestly either Bisexual, or had the Hots for Fox Alistair, the 'Blind Redhead' on her team. Frankly, Coco and Velvet were considered a 'Thing'... Because the 'Fans' found it _'Hot'_ rather than any actual given meaning. Velvet didn't seem to have anyone that interested her, but that was due to the lack of appearances that RT was willing to deny, just to rush through all of Monty's notes. And on the Subject of Mercury's father, yes, I agree that the "Semblance Theft" is a very screwy element, and one that sounds suspiciously like All for One from Boku no Hero Academia, a much _better_ Hero Show. Monty never actually gave a reason why Mercury doesn't have a Semblance revealed onscreen, and this element feels like they are just stealing from other mediums to keep up the illusion of story writing. Fact is, a lot of the sudden Gay Or Lesbian Pairings in the Show is more SJW and LGBT pandering for the sake of it, rather than any real given story. None of them say _Why_ that Character is a Lesbian, or Gay. It's rather pathetic.

[@arturohernandez473]

Lazarus056 yes i do agree monty oum had a plan im not saying he was bad or the worst writter he had one thing that made me love the show heart and it showed in the series he made after 3 well it may as well be something else and to clarify it wasnt mercary dad i was talking about in the novel with team coco they basictally had a villan who had the power to take semblence aways no joke. Also they reveal a death on that one team no one care about dies i think it was the one with a sniper. Let that speak to you, and honeslty i nevered like arkos it felt really generic and yes theres nothing wrong with that season 3 made it work while the first two felt really generic perfect girl is too good, meet guy who cant do shit and treats her like a normal person even though ren did and sun and neptune. And she fall in love, now im a sucker for clechie romance but this one felt really predicable. And its one of the main flaw of the show they cant do relationship that dont feel force or forget it to replace it with a really bad one. The only person i care about the fall of beacon was penny and she had very few screen time alsojaune ren and nora.and you want to talk pandering one of jaune sister is gay and married in the show for what reason nothing wrong with it but it felt really noticable she also had no reaction to her only brother running away to beacon where he has a 50/50 chance of dying but she seeing him like its no big deal sure we are way past this but a quick slap would of been enough. To show she at least felt scared and angry for him doing this. Hell when i found out he had seven sister i was hoping we get to see more of his history explainding why he is the way he is sure i was expecting way too much for the show but hey we got to see team rwby parent and sibling hell ruby and yang are sibling even ren. But not jaune and i really do like this character he had potienal but was wasted away with everything else. Hell he had beef with cinder and he completly forgets him and ruby her "nemisis" roman had more character than cinder block. A lot of this show had many ideas that dont go anywhere. And i really didnt like prryha had no really care for her i dont know why mabye because they didnt develper her as i would of like or mabye her death felt obivousie or something hell they dont even adress the kiss that jaune got or if he even had any or at all feeling for her or saw a a sister. Sorry you had to read that if you ever do but thanks if you did.

[@jaredtheastralartist2510]

You give realy good writing advice. Im making a story with a large cast. This helped alot. Thanks! Have you thought about making your own team?

[@twiinsiink]

I've made about 7 teams over the years, lol.

[@paddz1520]

Up till volume 3 I felt the series was good after that it sort of just went downhill I mean 6 volumes on and we still know nothing about cinder or why her motives are for power. Can't argue about the cast you've got a point but it's not that hard to keep up with in my opinion. No doubt volume 7 will at least introduce more characters to keep up with but since there are new writers hopefully we can be pleasantly suprised

[@ajiththomas2465]

I disagree about JNR not adding anything to the plot or not being important to the story. If anything, JNR hold the emotional weight in the Salem plot. Team RWBY, because of how Plot Armor works, have no personal stakes or personal loss in the Salem plot. They got no skin in the game. They’re only really involved because, well, they’re the Main Characters. JNR though, do have skin in the game. They lost their beloved team member Pyrrha Nikos because of the war against Salem. They have a personal stake against Salem. Their goal is to make sure that Pyrrha’s death does not go in vain. Team RWBY don’t have that going on for them. Sure, one could make the argument that Team RWBY still cared about Pyrrha, but we’re not shown anything in the first 3 Volumes to make us believe that they were any closer to her than how Pyrrha was obviously close to Team JNPR. So that’s why I disagree with the notion presented by yourself about JNR not adding anything to the plot. I think they very much do add personal stakes and weight to the plot, something that would be missing if they weren’t there with Team RWBY for the fight against Salem. Fin.

[@twiinsiink]

And that's the problem: Team RWBY SHOULD hold the emotional weight in the Salem plot, not the deuteragonists.

[@AnimeALX]

@@twiinsiink The easy fix is throw team RWBY in the back and let team JNR be the main protags from now on.

[@ajiththomas2465]

But as I’ve mentioned, because of how Plot Armor works, there’s very little chance if any of any of our Main Characters getting killed off before the series finale. Team JNR were the only real main character Good Guys who were focused enough and was cared about by the audience but at the same time expendable enough that they could kill them off for dramatic effect. One could make the argument that killing off Qrow might’ve accomplished the same thing but I wouldn’t really agree with that for two reasons. One, people may like Qrow for being “cool” but he’s not really endearing with his asshole personality and alcoholism, compared to Pyrrha who’s a nice and genuine girl who people can really care about. Two, killing off Qrow instead of Pyrrha wouldn’t have had the same widespread impact. It would obviously affect Ruby and Yang, because Qrow is their uncle. His death would have an obvious emotional impact on them. But it wouldn’t have an impact on Weiss and Blake because they don’t really know Qrow that much or really care about him. How would they when they’ve barely had a conversation with him before? To them, Qrow is just Ruby and Yang’s uncle that they’ve sometimes heard about. And if half of Team RWBY can’t truly care about Qrow’s death, then the audience can’t really care about Qrow’s death. That is why Pyrrha’s death has a more widespread effect. Not only do the characters and the audience care about Pyrrha because she’s a nice genuine girl but she’s also a close friend to Team RWBY and especially to her Team JNPR. She is a loved one known and liked to both Teams. So when she is killed, it has an obvious, tangible effect on both Team RWBY and JNR but especially JNR. So when you take all that into consideration, I just don’t see anyone other than Team JNR being able to hold the emotional weight in the Salem plot because of how things are set up.

[@brandonontama2415]

JNPR emotional investment, no plot armour? What!? Dude every character ever made has plot armour it's all about making it not obvious not getting rid of it, Jaune when he fell on the floor in volume 5 would of been killed by any competent warrior for making such an stupid mistake, Cinder shouldn't have even cared about him to keep him alive, yet because of some stupid rivalry she suddenly had we've him she hurt Weiss instead (how did she know Jaune cared about her?). How about in the first volume one Phyrra suddenly has interest in Jaune enough to help when he was landing? Should of failed the test or get injured from the fall? Furthermore, I would agree with you about JNR having more investment in the plot. But when you actually look back Ren and Nora had an very barebones relationship with Pyrrha, we never so them interact with her a lot and when they did it was about Jaune, they never had any deep or interesting interactions with her, Ren especially since I can't remember when Ren and Pyrrha had time together alone, their relationship with her was as flat as team RWBY's. Even in later volumes we never see them grieve her death, they don't seem to be affected by her death in anyway. When they were in the camp fire and Qrow was telling everyone about maidens Jaune is the only one that shows anger, Ren and Nora say nothing, like they don't even care. Why? Because all the Pyrrha always have to do with Jaune, everything was about Jaune with her and thus she could never make connections with other characters. Jaune is the only team member with any emotional investment in the plot.

[@berkaltuglu8140]

Volume 8 is mass murder

[@Daria-Morgendorffer]

"Remember how cardin-" Me: who?

[@BolderoffBros]

Great video, I'll be expecting an update video on all the new characters they're adding in volume 7....

[@KaiserShounen]

9:46 Okay i wouldnt say Weiss getting abused by her fam didnt do much to effect her. It only furthered her resolved to get the hell away from them and aside from that she has been expressed a bit of interest about leaving them since the story began. If anything, volume 4 was just a way to showcase how far she came. The ISSUE is that despite her having reservations about going back to atlas in volume 6, none of the other characters actually work through her feelings. Instead they just say "dont worry about it" and move on. Oh but I guess when Qrow has a pity party, he should get the intervention, real solid dynamic kek

[@azamonra]

It's worse when you consider that Weiss helped Yang through her problems by sharing her family issues. So it isn't like none of her friends know how bad things were for her.

[@KaiserShounen]

@@azamonra And yet they just shove her concerns aside. They didnt even bother to disguise her to prevent her family from finding out she's there.

[@Cityweaver]

You already said it. Her whole "arc" "furthered her resolve"... which means it didn't change anything. Which means it wasn't an arc. It was a vector, sure. But straight lines aren't interesting. I would approve of EVERYTHING that happened to Weiss IF she that was when she became aware of her father's nature, and marrying into the family for power. Have the existential crisis of that reveal happen ON SCREEN, have Weiss losing faith in her father's vision happen IN THE STORY. Weiss was written literally as Draco Malfoy with a ponytail. But she somehow, magically became a better person, less racist, more friendly and heroic through sheer force of will and came into the story already aware that her dad was a scumbag.... .... So, then, what is her character growth? To just... continously grow stronger in her resolve?

[@KaiserShounen]

@@Cityweaver That in and of itself isnt an uninteresting arc. Continuously furthering in resolve i mean. Especially if that characters interplay compensates for the lack of development. The issue in weiss' case is that the they didnt make it as compelling as it necessitates and they jumped the gun with her ending her racist tsundere phase. And you're right, her already knowing how shitty her family is at the start of the story is kind of an issue in her case mostly cause it didnt seem like it didnt take much convincing to make her turn good. And she did go to beacon just to get away from them. So i agree that Weiss' development is broken, but not to the point that she didnt change. Its that her change came cheap. Her continuously surpassing her familys conditioning, her knowing of how shitty they were from the very start and still being a horrible person only to grow from it wouldve been interesting if it was actually fleshed out and her change wasnt so contrived. And thats a damn shame in its own right.

[@xAreuto]

10:44 “Maybe he chooses to stay and help Ironwood” Oh boy

[@twiinsiink]

I really thought Qrow was gunna branch away from the kids and join the Ace Ops. I was so foolish

[@nycto5335]

The Grimm don't even matter anymore either. Whenever a big ass Grimm appears I never feel like anything bad is going to happen.

[@katherinegallagher1745]

Team CFVY was a BIG LIPPED ALLIGATOR MOMENT

[@faustsin9366]

I completely agree personally Im kind of getting over RWBY

[@floragarden8791]

I hated how Yang developed, she was supposed to be happy go lucky and somewhat of a comedy relief, SO WHY IS SHE DEPRESSED AND BARELY SMILING, imagine if Sokka from ATLA, turned into Soaka from that god forsaken movie in a matter of episodes

[@Rephundos]

Oh man, the Cardin/rando switch was fucking amazing. Can’t believe they missed something so crucial

[@TheBasileman]

Also doesn’t help that the episodes of RWBY are significantly shorter than that of DBZ so screen time and development becomes even more scarce

[@shadowofdimentio4618]

"Give the audience a reason to dislike Neo". Good luck with that. Also, having lots of villains isn't really an issue, it's just what they're doing with the main villains that does. Shonen usualy have a lot of villains that don't matter and you don't really want team Rwby beating up a major villain since that can really screw over how much we care about that Villain. People no longer saw Adam as a threat after volume 5 causing major dissonance between audience and characters, Tyrian and Hazel have lost all credibility because they lost like wusses and Cinder hasn't been taken seriously since volume 2. Meanwhile, Mercury and Neo have not lost to the heroes which makes the audience actually sees them as challenges to the heroes. People want to see them back and fighting. There's literally almost nothing you could do to have any of the other characters save face because we've seen them at their lowest and nothing has been done to show us they've gotten scarier or stronger. The only villain I even care about anymore is Neo, because while she's not even close to being the most important, everything she's done has portrayed her as a threat and capable, as well as someone with an actual connection to the main heroines, even if it's slim. People liked Roman, an unimportant villain who lost almost all the time because that's what he was meant to do. And villains like that are what Rwby should have used more of. Sure, using Watts in volume 6 would matter more, but if he lost there we'd have no member of team WTCH to even feel sightly threatened by. The main cast is WAY to bloated though. That can't be fixed the same way

[@redx589]

Personally, I'd prefer it if they gave Neo a reason to switch sides. I'd enjoy her more as an ally than a villain.

[@gameuniverse5973]

Hazel has a excuse compare to anyone he fucked up qrow,ozpin,Nora,and ren on his own without help got impalled by a giant ass stinger got up like it was not thing and the left

[@gameuniverse5973]

Hazel in my option even tho I don't like him is actually a big threat compare to ice cream girl and cinder

[@fightingmedialounge519]

The problem those type villains their not really characters but just props, if anything we need more viallin factions like in one piece or naruto.

[@pipsdontlie3031]

I think the only people who dunk on RWBY more than its haters are it’s fans

[@jonettheonly]

I remember Adam's introduction gave me chills and made me excited to see what he'd do, but as we all know he ended up pretty underutilized. I was really expecting him to be around for a long time. :/

[@scroobl]

I remember being so angry when Oscar left and everyone was searching for him, only to find out that he went shopping for a new outfit!! I was hoping that we could get some proper screen time to explore Oscar’s emotions and thoughts in the moment. We could have gotten a really meaningful scene with just Oscar and Oz but NO! Instead, let’s bring Pyrrha back into the narrative! Honestly, I’m fine with the Pyrrha scene but we could have had both scenes. Oscar could’ve gotten his outfit change like everyone else in Vol. 7, where it would’ve been much more fitting and better for his character development if we just has that one, emotional scene. People would care about Oscar’s character so much more if this happened instead of just caring about him because he’s the “cinnamon roll”.

[@deano8894]

im so glad i wasnt the only one who felt kinda frustrated when neo came back and when cfvy suddenly was given the spotlight despite doing nothing of value and was only a pretty light show in the volume 2 finale AND THEN proceed to do nothing with the actual plot

[@brandonontama2415]

Pure fan service.

[@asuna5701]

Damn it would have been cool if Cardin came back as Dee and then they offed him! I actually felt a little emotion when you described a head canon when Jaune confronts his old bullies

[@mcjohnerton]

Thank you for putting all this into words

[@amandaalfred939]

this video made me realize that fans have more impact on this show then I thought

[@Gazlow_F]

Pfffft no? Because if it was like this Bumbleby become canon soooo many volume ago xD

[@ProxyDoug]

Well, hello there. I've been thinking about it and I think the problem with the characters in RWBY is that the writers are afraid of commitment, so a character can't make something that may damage them or that causes the audience's perception of them to change negatively. That may even be extrapolated to characters not doing something because the writers would have to tie that knot later, specially considering that in V6 the villains side of the story does not go anywhere and the real big fight at the end is against Adam and a mechanical monstrosity who both come out of nowhere. Maybe we can blame V5 for that because it tried to do that and it failed (more due to the fact the side stories were more stretching than actually advancing the plot), but V6 ended up being very linear and every scene without the main cast can be cut from the show without any severe repercussion.

[@twiinsiink]

Well said! And thank you for the suggestion of adding Cardin and co. to the train.

[@ProxyDoug]

@@twiinsiink Just sharing my POV.

[@unknown-iy2we]

So they have no spine

[@hiagain1463]

Geez! How long did it take to draw the thumbnail?! It looked really good, and by gosh, you got every single minor character that probably ever was. I bow to your dedication

[@twiinsiink]

Thank you! I took longer than they usually take to make

[@quinintheclouds]

Man, Volume 8 really is fixing a lot of these, huh? That's awesome :D (still need development for RWB though)

[@petelee2477]

You know a show has problems when as a RWBY fan I'm more hyped about neo coming to cross tag battle then volume 7

[@EarlyOwOwl]

Tbh the only reason I like some characters is probably because of the songs. There's more character development in them than there is in the entire show.

[@krys9463]

12:33 If they don't introduce more characters in volume 7 it would be a miracle. My possible guess's on what kind of characters we might get are. -Token racist/ Slaver that will either die or change his mind out of nowhere. -Another LGBT character, possibly female since all the guys (two?) either are seen briefly in a picture or have barely any lines within the show and are only revealed to be gay in the anthology manga. Which people may or may not read. -Random Shnee company character. (Not Klien) -Random scientists, might just be Penny's dad or it might also be an assistant. (Assistant may help Watts) -Random rich person who isn't a jerk. This might make a pretty fun game of bingo.

[@nectarinn3]

Don't forget the token faunus character who laments over the token racists racism. And then has a crush on Blake because of course.

[@velvetphi]

Judging from how the show treated Penny, Torchwick, Pyrhha, and every other random side character that dies, I think CRWBY thinks that if a character gets development that means their usefulness as a character is gone and their time is up, or maybe just that only characters that die need development so that it's sadder or something.

[@Circusme]

"Qrow could also stay behind in ATLAS and HELP *IRONWOOD* " i spit out my coffee. that hits different after volume 8 lmao

[@joycesummer3818]

I'm just binge watching your videos I love them-

[@twiinsiink]

Yessss! Thank you!

[@KokaKola633]

Yes, same here!