Twilight Inscription Review: Twilight Imperium Roll and Write?

[@spike2439]

I appreciate the 4-person reviews because of all the discussion and differences of opinion based on different gaming perspective.

[@Bodyknock]

I grabbed the game today, gave it a whirl, and it's a great solo game. 🙂 One important thing about the solo game that didn't come up in the video is that voting is MUCH more important when you play solo against the AI than in the multiplayer game. The way it works solo is, when there's a vote, you deal out two effects, one a positive effect that helps you and the other a negative effect that hurts you. Then you spend your votes and try and beat the AI's votes. If you beat the AI they you get the positive effect, but if you lose you get the negative effect. And these aren't small effects. For instance the positive effect might be that you ignore any negative points for any wars you've lost the entire game, while the negative effect might be that you can't possibly get a reward in a future war even if you win it. So it really makes a difference whether or not you beat the AI in a vote. I'd go so far as to say it's a bit of a shame the multiplayer game doesn't work in a similar way, where the winning player gets a positive Agenda effect and the losing players get a negative effect. It would definitely make voting in multiplayer feel more important than the normal system they described in the video.

[@waltlock8805]

Sounds like a great opportunity for a house rule.

[@teamwrong09]

I'm a hardcore TI player. Really loved this game playing it a GenCon, but there are some valid points in how it's got some missed opportunities translating this from the original TI. I think maybe the best approach is to not have too many expectations if you're TI player. It is a roll 'n write at the end of the day.

[@Wh0isTh3D0ct0r]

2:04 Just like Space Station Phoenix, it's side A for "advanced" or "asymmetrical" and side "B" for "basic" or "beginner."

[@cailin5301]

Lol at Roy's sour expressions while Tom was giving his rating 😅

[@rhino451]

lol i total agree with that expression.

[@beornthebear9023]

I continue to love these reviews with so many different opinions. I feel like I need to try this one to see how I feel

[@flawed1]

This is a perfect example of why doing an average would not work. An average does not specifically reflect the fact that Tom and Mike really like it and Roy thinks it’s thoroughly average. . This was a great game to have four people give their own rating

[@checkrazor76]

Wait isnt that why averages work to perfection? One guy says average 1 guy barely above average and 2 liked it a good bit. Average ends up being above average but not great. Pretty sure that's perfect

[@hamakakun]

@@checkrazor76 statistically average works, yes. but subjectively it does not reflect the whole picture. a game sits on 7 (good) average does not give the impression it is a 9 (excellent) for some and a 4 (bad) for others. individual arguement in a review is what matters.

[@flawed1]

Exactly,, a game that all 4 people agree is mediocre is not the same thing as a game that two people really like and two people really hate, even though both of those games would have the same average

[@flawed1]

In other words, the average would say mediocre when, in fact, none of those people individually thought the game was mediocre

[@Rincewindl]

Yea its why just a score dosent work. Experiences are subjective and you need at least a lil detail

[@JamesOrr1987]

Great review. I have the perspective of always wanting to have had a chance to Play TI, ever since I saw a copy of TI3 on a FLGS years ago and staring in awe, but never have. I also have only played one very light roll and write, (Blue Castle). I love sci fi and love Eclipse as my main 4x experience, (and backed Last Light), so I am interested to see how I feel about trying my copy of TI Insciption. I can appreciate all the opinions offered here. The advantage of multiple reviewers is paying dividends, since that is the purpose of a review channel. Love it.

[@b.c.eckhoff3495]

I’m loving this game so much right now. Hope they support this game for years to come. The reason I like this more than Hadrian’s Wall is the factions abilities. They make each game feel unique and encourage you to approach the game in very different way. Hadrian’s Wall becomes more or less the same after you figure out what scores you the most points and what you should focus on. But I still love both. Also I’ve played with several people that love Twilight Imperium and they all enjoyed this implementation.

[@Draffut2003]

Only issue with Hadrians Wall is it is essentially a solo game. This looks good to bring some interaction into that.

[@Bodyknock]

Quick follow up with agendas, I think we found a good variant to use to make voting more impactful in multiplayer. Basically, handle agendas pretty much like you do in the solo game. Here’s how it works - When you have an agenda phase, first draw an agenda card and only use the Pass portion of it, ignore the fail. - Draw a random Fail agenda that has the opposite star/no star symbol at the top. So if the Pass has a star, draw a random Fail with no star, and vice versa. Note that the stars are positive effects, and the no-stars are negative effects, so you end up with one positive effect with a star and one negative effect with no star. - Now everybody secretly simultaneously allocates votes like usual - After votes are revealed, the players who spent the most votes use the positive effects on their boards. The players who spent the least votes use the negative effects on their boards. Players who are neither the most or least use neither effect. On the offchance all players tie then nobody uses any effect. So what this does is encourage you to spend votes to both get the positive effect if you win and avoid getting the negative effect if you lose. It makes voting a lot more significant since winning versus losing a vote is a noticeable effect.

[@ianbarczewski5105]

I like where you're going with this idea. So, to clarify, as I think I'd like to use this in my next playthrough: Six players are voting. Player A puts in six votes. Player B puts in one vote. Players C, D, E, and F put in a range of two to five votes. If I understand you correctly, player A gets the positive outcome, player B gets the negative outcome, and C, D, E, and F get nothing - accurate? What if a player chooses to abstain from voting? I'm wondering if it might work out to do something similar to what you're saying, except that you can abstain from voting, and all players who do vote have to live with the positive or negative outcome. Maybe figure out how many votes on average were cast amongst voting players, and everyone above that gets the positive and everyone below gets the negative? Just tossing this idea out as it seems a little restrictive to only give both outcomes to one person each (if I understand you correctly)

[@Bodyknock]

@@ianbarczewski5105 There’s no abstaining in the solo game, that’s just spending zero votes and automatically getting the negative result. By the way, another similar variant that is even easier is simply use the 1-2 player AI but ignore everything it does other than its council votes. So as the game goes on track the AI’s vote totals using the blue die just like you would if you played 1-2 players. When there’s a vote, draw two cards, one with a positive effect (starred card) and one with a negative effect (no star). Everybody spends votes simultaneously, then after you roll the die for the AI to get its voting goal. Every player that exceeds the AI’s voting goal gets to apply the positive effect, every player who doesn’t has to apply the negative effect. As in the variant above, this makes gathering and spending votes an actually useful goal since the difference between spending enough and not is a decent point swing. One last note, there are a couple of negative effect agenda cards which say “another player chooses X”. The designer clarified that for the AI game if you have to apply those you must apply the worst effect. Specifically, one card says to lose “1-3 Trade Goods”, so you would lose 3, and another says someone else picks a commodity and you have to cross off its victory points, in which case you should cross off the one you have the most points in or are furthest in getting points in.

[@ianbarczewski5105]

@@Bodyknock I love that idea of using the AI solely for voting!

[@ColinMcElhatton]

This is why I keep watching you guys. This constructive clash of opinions that gives game reviews so much more depth. Might give this game a spin or two.

[@uplift-yourdailypickup6424]

Really enjoyed Mike's comments on this one

[@IndianaGeologist]

4 square reviews are so great. I love the variety of discussion and thoughts.

[@theautumntree1]

I’ve always understood it as A for advanced and B for basic, Tom

[@JefferyHunt]

The first game to do exactly this was Roll Through The Ages. That was quite some time ago, and actually some of Matt Leacock’s best work in my opinion.

[@ryanmoore8003]

really love the group reviews guys, keep em coming

[@UmouMais]

Those ratings were pretty interesting. I can see each ones arguments and I actually like that. If they come with a mage knight roll and write game I would definitely feel like Roy, but other people would also like the idea of playing an epic game in a smaller format. So thats understandable!

[@Danny_DaKid]

“Or don’t” lol

[@ramonosuke]

This...looks pretty interesting not going to lie. Love that it has a solo mode. It was either this or Hadrian's wall, but this compels me more cause of the "theme"

[@realjon4220]

If you're still unsure I'd highly recommend Twilight Inscription over Hadrian's Wall, just the better and more interesting game overall. The only downside is probably the game length. Hadrian's Wall is the shorter game.

[@soylencer]

13:10 I felt this way and stopped in the middle of the game to re-color the black dice's white faces to metallic pink/green/blue with my POSCA markers. Will post images on BGG soon.

[@Kogakaze]

I really like Twilight Imperium and I have never played a roll and write before this game. I played Twilight Inscription and I really like it. I’m not disappointed in the lack of Twilight Imperium feel in the game I think it has plenty theme and flavor in it for being a different genre of game. I feel like I am still in the Twilight Imperium universe playing this game and it makes me want to try more roll and writes now. I am looking forward to playing this with more people. I feel if you like Twilight Imperium and you get the chance to play Twilight Inscription you should at least give it a try. Figure out for yourself by playing it before you decide.

[@Bodyknock]

Looking forward to Mike's solo review of this one. 🙂

[@Wh0isTh3D0ct0r]

I didn’t quite understand the whole thing about the game getting slower with more players….until I played a 6-player game this evening. I realized that the AP person would shift from round to round, so it wasn’t a matter of just having a single person who always has AP but that almost every strategy round *someone* would have AP. With fewer players, you’re more likely to have a round with no one having AP.

[@soogymoogi]

As someone who really doesn't like TI because of the playtime... (but does like the theme and roll and writes) I'm pretty excited to try this one out.

[@jimhall1294]

I love the honest opinions from different viewpoints and angles. Every game is not for everyone and you guys did a great job of giving your views and the reasons behind them. You were clear on what you liked and what you didn't like and why. Thank you again!

[@simpelton524]

I contend that Hadrian's Wall is not complicated. It's a combo explosion which is a total blast. I think it looks far more complicated than it actually is. I'd actually say Dinosaur Island Rawr and Write is more complicated than Hadrian's Wall.

[@flanbeau]

We played 2 games of hadrian's wall and didnt intend to return because we felt the games were the same once you've found the right path. I heard it's different in solo because there are missions which force you to use the sub optimal options, but in 2v2 it was very directive, there wasnt real choices.

[@KabukiKid]

Much agreement about the voting in this game. Those voting cards were hugely disappointing. I also hope that expansion cards will come along to remedy that.

[@JonTalbain777]

Debating adding this on my next game order (I'm finally getting Teotihuacan+exp). I'm coming from the other side: I've never played TI, but I've seen it, love the look and idea of it and always been interested in it in theory, though I am generally not a 4X gamer. I think this looks really good and is an option to get my feet wet and provides a strong optional solo experience. It's pricey though, and my backlog of games is getting a little long, and it sounds like waiting for a "fixer" expansion might be wise. Flipped a coin (the silver coin from Flamecraft actually) and the coin said "buy it"...we will see. I loved the contrasting opinions in this review though! Fun to see Roy and Chris on the same team.

[@BoiledEgg74]

Love the varied opinions on this. Well done.

[@hexennacht.]

Could you paint the symbols on the black die so the color/icon confusion is less?

[@diversonArchitect]

That was my thought on hearing that issue. Kinda weird they didn’t come that way.

[@LoDoFilmUnlimitedMedia]

Having never played Twilight Imperium OR roll and writes, I just bought this game and I did very poorly but I had fun. I like the game and bought it to play solo, up to 3 people in my group. The replayability is off the chain!

[@ianoble]

It's hard to not have played a roll and write at this point. They're everywhere!

[@johnblue2270]

Yahtzee is a roll and write. You have never played Yahtzee?

[@douglascarpenter5520]

Love the review! And the Third Eye Comics T-shirt!

[@Skarpo89]

Immediately loved that Roy was there, really appreciate his opinion and he does seem to have more of an affinity with 4x and big games like TIm

[@graptakular]

11:50 Chris. I see you, man.

[@MeanderingMikesManCave]

I have Twilight Imperium, but have never had a chance to play it. Based on this review I am going to buy Twilight Inscription ... and it *will* get to the table. Excelsior!

[@KevinHartley]

So far I've only played it 2-player with my brother. When playing just the two of us, we're both prone to AP as we're looking for the *best* move every move. With lots of interruptions, it took us ~4.5 hours. That said, I think without interruptions, it would have been ~2.5 hours. TI is my absolute favorite board game (3D printed a trophy that we 3D print name\empire\date plaques for when we play) and I love roll and writes. I really enjoyed this one. My brother enjoyed it, but is worried about replayability as he basically got to max out just about everything in that one play. I don't think that's usual, but he got really lucky with his first artifact synergizing amazingly with the state of his boards at the time. I'm a little concerned with the warfare rules for single player, but haven't tried that yet. Looking forward to getting this back to the table, as it felt like TI in roll and write form for me. That also means that it should make it to the table more often as well, as TI just takes too long, whereas this is the same feel in a quarter of the time (or less).

[@JosephMaiz]

Thanks for the review DT. I ran the demos at Gencon22 for this; Overall, folks either fell into Toms boat with lots of options and things to do for a R&W, or Roy's with "This isnt TI... im out". Overall, I found this a fun game and also gave it an 8 with the same issues of voting. You can houserule the votes and do a 2/1VP at the end of the game to make it interesting.

[@santeeblack3580]

Great job!! But zee's the roll and write expert! Gonna have to peel him outta nirvana, or riverside and put him in space!

[@ashtinpace4213]

Please do a review of Parcheesi.

[@richardmagel4247]

So what you're saying is if you already don't like roll and writes, this won't change your mind, and if you do, check it out.

[@EstXire]

Did the white markers work?

[@mikaelhansson9260]

I've played this solo a couple of times, and I like it. Gonna be interesting to play it multiplayer. I haven't played TI (yet, would love to), so I can' comment on that really, but smaller versions sometimes don't give the same feeling. Compare Nations and Nations the Dice game for example. They look similar, but the dice version doesn't feel like it's bigger cousin at all.

[@Muhd_Akmal]

love roy's hate of roll and write come off here haha

[@RuNacken]

🤣 that "or don't!" at the end

[@Fighterfan69]

I never thought Hadrians Wall was overly complex. I always thought it was That's Pretty Clever on Steroids. You get resources to unlock things that unlock other things which unlock other things etc etc. This one's comparable to that. I'm actually enjoying this one a bit more than Hadrians Wall mostly due to the different Factions that offer different focuses. There could have been more objectives and other things added to it. My only issue is that the first several rounds can be quite predictable. The FIrst round you either get 3 red or 2 blue resources. In the second round, you will get one of each. Following that is the uncertainty of when a council or War Event will be drawn so it's more of a guessing game on how you would want to approach your active sheets.

[@robertthurman9866]

Exactly what interactions are there between players? Voting and warfare, anything else?

[@thomascocks9136]

Thats it. Someone 👀 has made an expansion/campaign for this in the variant section of bgg that allows you to trade, move arpund a space map and war with all other players, and introduces a king of the hill style mechanic for control of mecatol rex

[@osuadh]

Mike said his only play of Twilight Imperium 4 was on a live stream. Is that live stream available online anywhere?

[@michaeldilisio557]

Apologies. I misspoke on that. We played the game, then did a first impressions video on it. Here’s that link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJSzl4x9n5isrMU

[@Sajatzsiraf]

@@michaeldilisio557 I thought there was kind of like a 'highlights' video of this play, with some after-action comments from each of you playing in that game.

[@saveversus]

When I put this in front of me, the first thing I thought of was that this feels like a game made for people who play Bingo professionally. 😀

[@JonnyLuscious]

Very interesting review... Interestingly, I think the people I play with (who didn't like TI4) would actually probably like this, but the fear of AP with them somewhat scares me away from getting it for them. Personally, I like TI4 and roll & writes both, so I have no idea how to feel about this one. I'd love to try it, but I dont think I have anyone to play with where the game would fit the group right. I am curious, what type of solo play is it? Is it just just a try to get a high score thing, randomized scenarios, vs AI, or something else?

[@vladimirciric8780]

"i got to try it with white marker" (YES, Tom likes it) 😁

[@jonasvohrna]

Will I enjoy it althought I have not played any TI?

[@grzegorzowczarek3016]

YES TI is just a coat of paint in that case. It could be set in any generic sci-fi universe. Its nice to see all crew together again if you know TI universe.

[@WarzoneVincent]

People should not be expecting the full 4X TI in this. It doesn't require vacation time to complete, and is a roll and write game. There is no way to fit that huge experience in this box and make it accessible. If anything, I would make this a possible lure to get friends interested in Imperium proper.

[@waltlock8805]

I get the feeling this game is more for people intimidated by TI who'd like to play a smaller/faster version of it, rather than fans and players of TI.

[@danmarquart1076]

We need a DiLisio solo review!

[@metalapollo]

This the most I've seen Roy so animated.

[@DeltaDemon1]

I haven't played this game but I definitely see the 4X aspect in the 4 boards. Not saying it's a good game but the 4X is definitely there based on the overview.

[@Nagyadam9000]

It's time for a top 10 roll and write soon (I hope).

[@PinothyJ]

That sounds like a philosophical razor: "As the player count increases in an synchronous play game, the chance for play to be synchronous play decreases." Chris Yi

[@JamesOrr1987]

Chris is right. Basically play slows to the common denominator. You can only drive as fast in your lane as the person in front of you. The slowest person sets the speed. I always hate that lol.

[@JonnyLuscious]

@@JamesOrr1987 it's still typically better than having to wait for all of those turns individually though ;p

[@ryangilmore3678]

29:58 Roy just can't contain his dislike for roll and writes haha.

[@mikaeki5245]

Things I disliked: voting and saved assets. I think all assets should be used instantly. It would ease gameplay, and you won't forget to use those saved assets.

[@jasonjett2127]

Roy is my spirit animal.

[@FalkFlak]

Maybe the review doesnt bring it through but I can't see where the warfare strategy is in here. TI to me is not about combat solely but maneouvering and positioning of fleets. Ok, you see your neighbour building up a fleet, you count his strength and decide, "oh I can beat that" and start building or "Oh, I can never beat that anyway, don't even bother". It's that it or is there more to it?

[@Bleuchz]

It's a roll and write so keep that context in mind (if you dislike abstraction none of the nuance matters): There are spaces that give bonuses/points so even if you'd lose there's a reason to get them. Space is limited and some nodes are blocked so there is positional considerations. You can deploy across fields: from right to left and build up into the next battle. In the games I've played I've been able to pivot and prepare for the next battle if I'm losing the current one. Lastly, some factions interact with war in different ways.

[@FalkFlak]

Ok the deployment across combat fields sounds actually pretty good. Besides that I don't think "R&W" is a good excuse to NOT make a game thematic when you put Twilight XY on the box. I played so many R&W that are very thematic (RttA and Fleet my favourites) that I know it can be done to make TI a R&W. Even the Dice Tower mentioned it seems a bit lackluster and a disappointment to some extent.

[@Bleuchz]

Interesting that Tom specifically said that as an example for voting "the player who casts the most votes gets 3 points". My game last night I won by 4 points and those points could specifically be attributed to me having the most voting power and costing my opponent 4 points by eliminating the star assets for War Suns. I agree they could be splashier but they are definitely not nothing. Edit: I actually just played a solo game and noticed that the rate of return on the "Councilor" spaces (which is where votes come from) is very high. 3, 4 and 6 for every three you collect. Doesn't solve the issue of the voting event being underwhelming but from a pure points standpoint they are lucrative.

[@thedicetower]

I guess I would argue that the COST of getting those votes could have netted you way more than 4 points in other areas. Getting a "vote" isn't nearly as good as anything else, and it should be.

[@Bleuchz]

@@thedicetower I think that's fair and the power of the votes can change depending on your faction. I am in agreement that they should feel splashier but they're not nothing . Hopefully this game does well enough to get the traditional FFG "make every deck bigger" expansion.

[@AndrewMancini-t4j]

While FFG can use their IP how they please, the biggest problem I think is using the IP for such a wildly different genre at all. I fail to see any reason why a new space IP couldn't have been used instead, it's not as if the game couldn't operate with a different space setting/theme. Trying not to be cynical, but by using the TI IP, you are of course going to attract the hardcore fans of the game that otherwise wouldn't touch a roll-and-write with a barge poll and thus, potentially increase your sales. Nothing wrong with that, companies gotta earn that money, but that means you waive the whole "Well, you shouldn't compare it to TI4 because it's a different genre!!" argument because by naming the product after it, again you are banking on fans purchasing it that wouldn't otherwise look at it. You can't have your cake and eat it as well. Use an original IP if you don't want that baggage. I had the exact same problem with "Founders of Gloomhaven" for this as well, if you use an IP on something wildly different to potentially attract hardcore audience that otherwise wouldn't look at your product, then you have to take the good with the bad. The authors can say "It is for a different audience" until they are blue in the face but let's be real: The hardcore group of anything, not just board games (Video games, anime etc) are going to flock to a product, regardless of what it is if they have the recognizable brand they love attached. You can say how things should be, but you really need to see how people act in reality. For board-games, I think they really should avoid using IPs in wildly different genres except for maybe something like CCGs which are on a bit of a different paradigm compared to other boardgame genres.

[@robinmarks4771]

Just for the sake of argument, I'll point out that your collective critique about agendas not mattering also applies in proper TI. I've played many TI sessions now, and in each one at least 50% of the agendas that pop up have no relevance to any player in the game.

[@notsaved]

you called it ten years ago in the Elder Sign review

[@peterevensen]

A for Asymmetrical! It makes more sense

[@freshlyshowered]

The most impressive thing about this is that orange dry-erase marker.

[@RvLeshrac]

This is almost a perfect reflection of my group's play through TInscription, with me taking Mike's PoV.

[@PestiferousJoe]

I'm with Roy

[@garys4067]

I think we can safely assume there will not be a Last Light Roll & Write game.

[@01nightlord]

This game is a lot easier to get to the table than TI, don't get me wrong I like playing TI, but with TI you need to set aside a whole day to play it. Not this game maybe just about two hours and it still a lot of fun for me.

[@spaztekwarrior]

This is a roll and write game in the TI universe. I think some of Tom’s friends had unrealistic expectations. Perhaps they haven’t played enough roll and writes. This game does have theme, and it has combos. Of course you roll dice and write things down and cross things off. That’s the genre. It isn’t trying to be like a slim down version of the board game. It’s very cool for what it is :)

[@neverlooz]

this game looks awesome

[@GamingWithSantanas]

I know he respects everyone's opinion for their rating, but Roy's face gestures were the most hilarious parts of the video. That's the reason I wanted to see the video, more of reactions rather than the how to play. Enjoyed the video!

[@braydenb1581]

I live the TI universe but I feel the spin off boardgame series should be more casual to attract more peolle

[@rhino451]

I'm going with Roy this game will not be going in my collection this is a big miss for me

[@2frelledminds]

I'm curious about this game, but I'm not likely to ever play it. I have no interest in twilight imperium, but I like the idea of heavier, longer roll n writes.

[@LilBoyHexley]

I'm fairly neutral on roll and writes, but I do personally disagree with Roy's characterization of just "marking things off", since that's ultimately more of a matter of components (which it's valid to not like). It's just that pushing a plastic figure into a space or placing a tile on a player-board isn't *inherently* more thematic than drawing a line or checking a box. At the end of the day it's still about how the interactive components are reflected in the game's mechanisms. In Dune Imperium for instance, Roy is all for using miniatures to represent the war mechanism on the board. Whereas MANY people feel that it adds unnecessary fiddliness and clutter to the board when cubes were a more clean/elegant solution. Though not advisable for the genre you could literally emulate the entirety of a dudes-on-a-map style game with a dry-erase board. Drawing and erasing marks and numbers onto a board to represent the movement of troops, and checking off boxes for upgrades. At the end of the day it's just components. And Roy is definitely a component guy. That being said. Roy's opinion was valuable not necessarily as a review, but as represenation of someone who has a bias against these types of games. It was informative to know that the game did not overcome those biases via theme or mechanics. So it's not really useful if you have a preference for these games or expectations aligned with what the game is. It is useful if you were maybe considering this as someone interested because of the theme, but is patently not interested in roll and writes to any degree.

[@flanbeau]

>That being said. Roy's opinion was valuable not necessarily as a review, but as represenation of someone who has a bias against these types of games. It was informative to know that the game did not overcome those biases via theme or mechanics. Would it add value to have in every review someone who has a gognitive bias against a superficial element of the game?

[@alecj3454]

Team Roy And Chris.

[@PhilGerb93]

So let me get this straight, the guy complaining for most of the review (Roy I think) hates the feeling of crossing boxes... In a roll and white game... Mmmkay. Edit: The guy on the right said the exact same thing at the end of the video. THANK YOU.

[@aliasisudonomo]

Meanwhile, a few months later I finally got to try to play this... and I found some of the agenda votes *brutal*, so that's a weird difference. It may have simply been my strategy.

[@thomascocks9136]

Sometimes they are super impactful, other times not. Depends on your sheets at the time.

[@toastybear52]

Lol. Tell me a roll and write that 'feels' thematic. I'll wait.

[@trooper6762]

One aspect you guys didn't cover, and it is probably not really a thing, is using this as a step towards TI4 for people.

[@DTChrisYi]

Good point. I'd say no, it's really such a different game just themed in the TI4 world. I don't think the people who liked it more than me would say so either

[@trooper6762]

@@DTChrisYi That's what I was thinking too

[@justanerd1138]

Lol. Roy does not approve.

[@chuckm1961]

People rolling dice and hoping to roll high numbers so they can beat up other people is not “theme”. It’s people rolling dice and hoping to roll high numbers so they can beat up other people. Hot Take concludes.

[@Bleuchz]

You'll be happy to learn there are no numbers on these dice.

[@lastburning]

I don't get your point. Rolling dice is a mechanism. Not theme. Yeah, we know?

[@chuckm1961]

@@lastburning certain members of the dice Tower, who highly disapproved of this game, seem to be very fond of games that involve moving plastic monsters around on the board, while rolling dice to see if they beat each other up. My comment was alluding to that. My comment is not directed towards this game, in other words.

[@simian5805]

It feels less 4x because you're not around a huge game with 8 people. :)

[@cobtyrannon2479]

I miss the ability to interact with other players in this one : (

[@Phildiculous]

I don't because you interact with player's a lot?

[@Andrew_NJ]

Thank you Roy, I will avoid this. This looks like a solitaire puzzle with a pasted on theme. The player interaction looks almost non-existent and boring.

[@lastburning]

Roll and writes are inherently low player interaction.

[@Bebopvicious00]

Basically if you like roll and writes then check it out.

[@thecaryou]

This was a good engine building game to me the roll and write part is not great in the physical writing. This should have been a board game with the TI theme. I love TI4 and like this but give me token and tetris pieces for war would make this so much better. I want more TI themed games.

[@Phildiculous]

Once again Roy feels way off base for me. I've played this maybe 8 times now with no less than 15 different people and every one of them loved it, at least 3 of them pre-ordering a copy soon after. And for me, TI4 is my favorite game and TI3 before that. The arguments that Chris and Roy put forward seem so flimsy. Chris said something about knowing TI being a hindrance because some of the symbology doesn't translate and then referenced trade goods saying, "oh they give you 1 point for every 2 at the end." Yes they do, but what they also do is count as a "wild resource"... exactly like TI. And complaining that you don't interact with people who aren't your neighbors - who cares?? You're still engaged and interested in your neighbors' strengths just like 7 wonders and it works fine. Listen to everything Tom said here because it's the truth. Everything he said rang completely true to my plays and was a fair assessment of the game. I like it more than him but I agree with his criticisms. Ignore Roy in general because he always has obtuse opinions that will mislead *most* people to and from games they'd otherwise enjoy or dislike.

[@Bleuchz]

"And complaining that you don't interact with people who aren't your neighbors - who cares??" I actually was surprised nobody mention that you ARE interacting with people who aren't your neighbors. You absolutely do interact with them: The race for Mecatol Rex, The race for the objectives and the voting. That's 3 different ways everyone at the table matters to you. Roy is totally entitled to his opinion and its valid; if he doesn't like roll and writes he was never going to like this game. Just very odd that he said that and everyone agreed when clearly it is patently false.

[@Phildiculous]

@@funnyonlineuploads "who cares??" is not my argument. "You're still engaged and interested in your neighbors' strengths just like 7 wonders and it works fine." is my argument. @Bleuchz Great point! A lot of people online (no one I've played with but online) have said it's multiplayer solitaire but you do have an interest in lots of things people at the table are doing throughout so I would refute those people. And I agree that Roy is entitled to his opinion but it often feels like he's unable to see Tom's point of view when they interact and Roy's points of reference often feel out of whack for me, for instance about who would like a game and wouldn't like a game. I've played this with several people who love TI, even one person who goes to tournaments, and they were all way into it. I shouldn't really say anyone is "wrong" because it's a review, it's all opinion here, I just wanted to say that Roy often seems like he can't see the forest for the trees - and especially so here.

[@Andrew_NJ]

@@Phildiculous Roy see's Tom's point of view but he does not enjoy roll and write games which are essentially solitaire puzzles like Tom does. Roy enjoys epic 4x games, miniatures, actual dice combat and game changing events that he has the possibility to influence. None of which this game has. Your arguments do not make any sense. I am one of those people who agrees with everything Roy said about Twilight Inscription and would not be interested in playing this just like I am not interested in playing roll and write games in general but I love TI4. He is allowed to not like a game and disagree with Tom for whatever reason(s) he feels like.

[@lastburning]

@Gankatron 5000 I wish I always sounded irrationally based.

[@tomasxfranco]

@@funnyonlineuploads you can read it as expecting to interact with every player is a self-imposed requirement that doesn't necessarily make a game better and is not justified as something that needs to be safeguarded.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Bringing a TI4 fan (average game) who doesn't like roll and writes, ouch saw that coming! Enjoyed it myself for a roll and write and yeah I don't know why people were thinking this was going to be a true 4x game. I'm more closer to Tom's wheelhouse, but 8 is in solo mode, 7 otherwise, and Hadrians is barely a 6. Mike hit it on the head with his great digs. And yeah the voting sucks!

[@VRjustin]

Will pass on this game, but someone need a haircut for sure...

[@DTChrisYi]

I agree, Mike's hair is getting out of control.

[@joeferreti9442]

I'm really not a fan of Roll & Writes. That genre gets way too much buzz for no good reason. And the fact that the Twilight Imperium Roll & Write game works more for fans of Roll & Write games than for TI fans seems to me like a misdesign, because most Roll & Write fans won't be interested in the TI theme.

[@chuckm1961]

Joe, I think good roll and writes get “buzz” because a lot of people like them. It sounds like you are suggesting there is some reason we are not supposed to enjoy them. Feel free to enlighten us. Also, you are wrong about people who enjoy roll and writes. They don’t really care what the theme is, if the gameplay is good.

[@jhowd78]

Maybe you're projecting how you feel on "everyone"

[@tomasxfranco]

It's not a genre, it's a user experience or physical layer at most. Like the same game can use workers and resources or just be roll and write.

[@mastertenshi]

Ok, so let's sum up. 5/10: because you don't like roll-and-write. If you don't like roll-and-write games, WHY the hell are you reviewing a roll-and-write game? 6/10: because it's not like Twilight Imperium. WHY are you trying to compare a 2-hour roll-and-write game to a multi-hour 4x grand strategy game? Would you rate it higher if it was the exact same game, but DIDN'T have the Twilight Imperium skin? 8/10: because the agendas are weak. A criticism of an ACTUAL game mechanic 8/10: because the agendas are weak, and not quite as good as another roll-and-write game. A criticism of an ACTUAL game mechanic AND a comparison to another game in the same genre. Two of these reviews are useful. Can you spot which two?

[@DTChrisYi]

You're insinuating there are zero people in the world who don't like roll and write games but were curious about this one as big fans of Twilight Imperium. People can find different perspectives useful.

[@mastertenshi]

@@DTChrisYi Sure, I agree that different perspectives can be useful. But if you're someone that doesn't like roll-and-write games, who's review would really find more valuable? The one that rates it low largely because it's a roll-and-write? Or the one that rates it high by comparing it to other roll-and-write games? If I'm looking to dip my toes into a genre of game (table-top, or video) that I either don't like or don't have much experience with, I would much rather read the review of someone that is a fan of and has a lot of experience with said genre. Saying that a game is bad by giving it a 5/10 score largely because you don't like the genre of the game sounds an awful lot like saying Gloomhaven is a bad game because you don't like dungeon crawlers. Or saying Magic: The Gathering is a terrible game because CCGs are just bad. Or that Hades is bad because all rogue-likes are bad. Personally, I don't like battle royale games, but I'm not going to leave a review saying that Fortnite is a bad game. Hopefully that clears up where I'm coming from a little better.

[@thedicetower]

I want to be clear that I think multiple viewpoints are valuable, so I include them on the channel. I think all the points are valid, even the ones you don't agree with.

[@DTChrisYi]

@@mastertenshi Your example of Gloomhaven is really a good point. I don't like a lot of dungeon crawls, but that one stands out as having a lot of great card play and resource management that I don't see in other games of the genre. Sometimes it's good to hear from people who don't typically like a genre, especially when this is being sold on its IP/theme. Excluding Roy would be an odd choice since so many people want to know what he would think.

[@arcanevision1]

@@mastertenshi reviews are all subjunctive, dont take reviewers scores as gospel. The best thing you can do is find a reviewer whose tastes align with yours. This review is very useful for people who often align themselves with Chris or Roy, they can think, " oh i generally agree with Chris, I probably wont like this one".

[@leadbones]

Not liking a roll and write because you are just checking boxes and drawing lines is like not liking board games because you're just rolling dice and placing tokens.

[@EpicGamingNight]

I am a thematic gamer! I always have been! I want games that cause excitement, tell a story, and have players interacting around the table! I love that people enjoy games I don’t! That’s awesome for sure! But for me! I’ll take theme please! 😁

[@leadbones]

@@EpicGamingNight Well, even the most thematic games need you to do a little imaginative legwork. I'm super serious about theme too, and I have no interest in pretty much any game that I consider too abstract. I'm just saying, at the end of the day, it's all cardboard and paper and plastic and sometimes neoprene. Those aren't planets, those are cards. That isn't a Gelatinous Ooze, it's a plastic cube. There is always some sort of leap to be made. I get that this one is too far for some. I just usually have an easy time structuring my own narrative in my head as I play, unless a game gives me literally nothing to go on. But everything is just something and something else, is all I'm really saying.

[@JamesOrr1987]

@@leadbones no doubt, but if the abstraction doesn't grab you it does end up turning into just bits and pieces and 'doing things', which is I think Roy's general thought. I assume.

[@curtisbaker6160]

I, as always, was disappointed with Roy and Chris's reviews. I sort of get their point, but stop judging a game based on other games! "Fantasy Flight Games is proud to announce Twilight Inscription, a brand-new game in the Twilight Imperium universe!" From the very beginning this was a game WITHIN the twilight imperium universe. FFG didn't put that on the game. TI fans did and that's not fair to this game. It doesn't have to FEEL like the other game. This is the equivalent of someone saying they don't like star wars imperial assault because it is not the same as star wars x-wing. They are not the same game therefore they won't be the same. To be fair though I will say that even from a non TI perspective, the voting was meh... Even at solo. Every other part of the game was great though. If you look at this game as a heavy roll and write as you should there is no way you will give it a 5 or 6. That is 100% based on unrealistic expectations of a game that never claimed to be what you expected of it... I will say that Roy was so disappointed by this game that it didn't seem like he was disturbing the peace and knocking down the studio with his shaking leg this video which was kind of nice...